Tom:
In 2021 RTRFM launched Breaking Sound Barriers, a pilot program developed in conjunction with CarersWA aimed to provide accessible and inclusive podcast and radio training for people with a lived experience of disability. This morning we hear the second out of three pieces of audio created through that project. This one’s by Andrew Dewberry and he’s interview Michael Hartnett. It’s an interview about transitioning life form the world of professional and high level sports, back into a civilian life.
Dewbs:
Hello and welcome to The Archetype Podcast. My name is Dewbs and I’m going to be with you for the next seven minutes or so. This podcast is a monthly show in which I talk to some of Australia’s most successful para-athletes and coaches, intimately discussing their approach to their respective disciplines, whether that’s physically, mentally and emotionally, whilst having to deal with a variety of disabilities and personal lifestyles. My guest today was one of the key components of what can be considered this country’s golden era of wheelchair basketball and Australian basketball as whole. Joining me to talk more about it, Michael Hartnett. Mikey, welcome to the show.
Michael:
Thank you for having me, it’s a pleasure.
Dewbs:
So as you probably know, with these types of interviews, the athlete usually recalls certain anecdotes and highlights during their careerbut I’d really like to discuss that period of time shortly after your retirement from wheelchair basketball.
Michael:
I think that’s a really important question, that was actually one of the hardest periods of my life. I think, I certainly see it as shedding a skin almost, you know, you were this thing one day and then the next day… it’s very binary. You’re something else, and what that was I didn’t really know. I did have a bit of an identity crisis in that life has to change and how and where is it going to change, and I just wasn’t really sure what I could be or what I could do.
Dewbs:
Were there any systems or programs set up during this time where you sort of had that lack of identity?
Michael:
I would say not really, no. It was sort of a big topic at the time with other high profile athletes retiring, I remember reading in the news. Growing up there was a big emphasis on sport, and being on court, your high performance, you know, every second you’re on court is time that your opponent isn’t; that was kind of how it was framed to us. So, when I went to uni early for psychology I obviously quit really quick because you know it felt like a wasted opportunity to be in class when I could have been on court. And I think then obviously coming down the line, without that work life balance, and balancing me as a human being not just an athlete, at the very end I come out I was in that no-man’s-land of not having any idea, not having any vocation, skills or training besides, you know, chasing a basketball.
Dewbs:
You also managed to find a formal education and a job within social work. What was it about social work that you found most appealing?
Michael:
I think when you’re looking through your identity you kind of have to go back and reflect on what your life was and then really break it down to what those skills were, or what you valued, and I think what that really was was teamwork. I play basketball, I love teams, and what that says into social work is that you’re playing with people from different backgrounds, ages, and you’ve got a common goal and you kind of chase it together. That’s where the joy is, and social work is very similar. You’re joining with people and hopefully you share a goal, and you’re working together through different backgrounds, different beliefs and values to hopefully achieve something positive.
Dewbs:
And you gained those transferrable skills obviously from your experience and the time you spend playing wheelchair basketball. When you were at university, by this time you were obviously a mature age student also with a physical disability. Were there any challenges or observations you had whilst at university and within the workplace?
Michael:
There were a lot, a lot more than I knew going in and a lot more than I was aware of. It’s interesting that you say that, being mature age and having a physical disability, because first of all, when you’re doing social work with mature age, you’re with a lot of younger people, and they know what they’re doing and up and at ‘em, and you’re not really sure, and then people kind of look at you like ‘well how you going to fit? How are you going to do this job anyway with your disability?’ So again you look inwards and think, ‘Well, can I do this?’ You don’t really know. But then you find something or someone that gives you a backing. But then… and you know that’s really good it gets you along…
But then when you get to the real world and start going into placements then there’s extra barriers, and especially it then really becomes your physically disability because you know there’s safety concerns, there’s risk in the reward of social work, sometimes you’re working with people or they’re in darker period of their life, and you have to consider that there’s opportunities and there’s strengths in having a physical disability, but there’s also some real risks that you have to manage, and I guess I didn’t know that until quite late in the game. It was also confronting for potential employers, for you know lecturers and stuff to think, Well how is this going to work for you? So, it was tough.
Dewbs:
What do you think could have helped you become more aware of these risks before entering that environment?
Michael:
It’s a tricky one because sometimes, you don’t know what you don’t know, and you just have to walk down that path. I think, what I found was that people who were open to, positive risk is what I like to call it, trying something out in a planned and structured way, almost being comfortable in being uncomfortable, and having contingency plans and safety plans if things to awry. I think that’s what really got me through because I didn’t have any clue, and obviously again I wasn’t trained to… I was learning on the job so it’s having those people with an open mind to not look at what you can’t do, but finding a way to make it work with what you’ve got. And again, everyone’s got strengths and whatever they’ve got, it’s tapping into those to really maximise them.
Dewbs:
So then what do you think sports organisations and institutes can put in place to help athletes with a disability transitioning into their life post-career to help them feel a bit more aware and secure of certain risks there are that come with opportunities?
Michael:
I still think that, yeah, it’s getting that work life balance of giving people with disabilities a taste of more than just sport, and would I have known myself better in a real-world situation where it’s not just a sporting field or a gym, I would have had more of a sense of what and where I’m not so good at, and what job would have fit me. Because this could have (social work) also have been a spectacular failure, I didn’t know, and I just think that young athletes, emphasising that there’s more to it than the sporting field, and this also goes into mental health and also helps with anxiety and depression and stress, to have more than just sport to go to, because we also have to face that not every athlete is gonna make it to the pinnacle of their goals. So I just think yeah, young athletes have to have pathways into the sport, multiple dimensions to their life, and support at the end of their career wherever that may be. And hopefully then you’re going to have a much more confident and ready for society person with a disability.
Dewbs:
Yeah, yeah. Do you reckon this is something that can change in the near future?
Michael:
It can change but it’s difficult in Australia if we’re to be honest; we’re a sporting nation, we’re a sporting culture and we demand the best, we expect the best, in disabled sport, in all sport. So there will have to be some big shifts in expectations from sporting organisations, and especially high performance ones, and also some personal responsibility I think from athletes too, I mean they have to also put themselves out there. So again it’s tricky on many levels, but it’s an area than can be improved for sure.
Dewbs:
Michael, you’ve given us some real informative insights into yoursort of life, post basketball. I want to thank you so much for taking your time to chat with me, it’s been much appreciated.
Michael:
No problem, thank you, anytime.
Tom:
And that was basketballer Michael Hartnett chatting there with Andrew Dewberry, aka Dewbs. Thank you to Dewbs for his contribution to the Breaking Sound Barriers project, I was involved with and would like to say thank you to RTR for all the support that they provided. That podcast is available at rtrfm.com.au/podcasts and we will be sharing the third and final piece of audio next week, same time.
