Attitudes - about disability - episode 5

Angel 00:02

Welcome to the Attitudes podcast. This podcast is the brainchild of Attitude Foundation and Northcott to chat about attitudes about disability. In 2021, the University of Melbourne published a nationwide survey on Australia's attitudes on disability, which will be the focal point of our season one.

I'm your host, Angel Dixon. I'm a person with disability. I dedicate my time to furthering the inclusion of people with disability. I'm a model and the former CEO of Attitude Foundation. In an effort to bring life to the numbers in the survey, each week, I'll be joined by current and former board members and one friend of Attitude Foundation to discuss one of the survey's findings.

Today, we're talking to Joanna Garvin, who is a board member at the Attitude Foundation. I'm Angel Dixon. I'm on the land of the Yigamba people on the sunny Gold Coast, which isn't so sunny today. Joanna, where are you dialing in from today?

Joanna 00:57

Hi, I'm Joanna and I'm on Gadigal land. I'm a filmmaker. I've been a member of the Board of the Attitude Foundation for the past year and I continue to work in the industry in different ways, finding opportunities in writing and directing and advocating for people with disability.

Angel 01:19

Well, look, I've been, you know, we've been around each other for many, many years. I was explaining to someone that we have actually worked together on things, but separately for quite a while. And, and now you've joined the board. You've been on the Attitude Board for about a year now.

Angel 01:45

I think you're a wonderful asset there and I'm excited to dig into this topic about the Attitude Matters survey today. So the topic that you've chosen is that 22% of people agreed that people with disability have less to look forward to than others. Why did you pick that one?

Joanna 02:05

I just thought it was really interesting because I think that's completely not true. We have so much to look forward to as people with disabilities because I know in my life I have been reflecting a lot and thinking about how I've had so many more opportunities than my able-bodied friends.

When I was a teenager I got to be on this mentoring programme with ANZ and the Cerebral Palsy Alliance which taught me a lot about public speaking and in 2017 I got to participate in the World Marathon Challenge where I got to travel to all seven continents and raise money for the Cerebral Palsy Alliance and advocate for people with disabilities, particularly those living with Cerebral Palsy.

So that was incredible because I thought, never in a million years would I get to go to Antarctica of all places or Cardihenia, like I wouldn't have even imagined that and I just thought it's because of my disability that I got to have that experience.

Joanna 03:26

And I was also lucky enough to do a director's attachment on the feature film Penguin Bloom and I really believe that one of the reasons they wanted me to do that director's attachment was because of my lived experience and I was able to use that and chat to the producers and the director about my own experiences and they really encouraged that. So, I really believe that we have so much to look forward to and we are given the opportunity to learn to have a different perspective about life and we have to, I think it's also taught me to really be proactive in creating my own life and not just waiting for the phone to ring.

Joanna 4:26

I learnt that when I was, I think 15 because my dad died when I was 13 and my mum was great and she got me to go and see a counsellor and about that experience and what actually ended up happening was that she really taught me to not, just because I really struggled in high school with friendships and she taught me to not just sit and wait for the phone to ring. You've actually got to pick up the phone and organise things and I've applied that to other areas of my life so career wise picked up the phone and said to people I'd love to work with you, I'd love your advice, career advice, give it to me. So it's just really taught me that and I've tried to take that lesson throughout my life so I think we have so much to look forward to as people with disabilities. Yes, challenging at times but my god we have full lives.

Angel 05:36

Well, you've just talked through your bio pretty much, but can you give us the sound bite? Give us your credentials.

Joanna 05:46

Yes, I went to Notre Dame and that was great. I did communications and media. And while I was there, another experience I got to have was I had some friends that had done a study abroad program overseas.

And I was really keen to do it. So I went and spoke to the study abroad people at my uni and said, I really want to go overseas and do some study. And I had a great film studies teacher at the time that said, the US is great for film and also, it's great for accessibility. So you should go over there. So I was lucky enough and got a place at St Benedict John's Minnesota. And I studied over there. And while I was there, I did another film studies course. And the lecturer said to me, because I really showed an interest in working in the film industry.

Joanna 06:54

He said, you should go and do some more studies when you come home. So I took his advice and I found a course at this place called Metroscreen, which sadly is no longer with us. But it was six months and you just learned all the basics about, you know, cinematography and producing.

And it was great because we got to do an internship after we finished the course. And luckily, one of the teachers I had there, she had a contact at Screen New South Wales and she called the lovely Matt Carroll, who's a great producer and said, I've got this student who's really keen to do an internship with you take her.

Joanna 07:41

And he was kind enough to say yes. And so I did an internship with Screen New South Wales for a couple of months. And then they were working quite closely with Arts New South Wales at the time. And I spoke to some people at Arts New South Wales and they very generously gave me some contract work.

And then an opportunity came up at Screen New South Wales because the two companies were merging as Create New South Wales at the time. And I secured a job there as a communications officer. And I also, while I was there, I did a short film with Information and Cultural Exchange called The Milky Pop Kid about the authentic casting of people with disabilities, which is another fun one with a fellow board member, Emily Dash.

Joanna 08:34

And then I was really keen, after we'd done that, I was really keen to make something else. And the ABC Kids, they put a call out for emerging filmmakers to create a story about the lived experience of disabilities to come out on International Day of People with Disabilities in 2019. And I was lucky enough to be one of the recipients. And I got to create a film called Rocky and Me with some great creatives. And at the same time, I was really surprised to be offered an internship. Oh, sorry. Directors Attachment with Penguin Bloom, with the wonderful Glen and Ivan, the director and the wonderful Made Up Stories production company. And yeah, I've been just working ever since and trying to find opportunities in the screen industry and also really advocate for not only authentic casting for people with disabilities on screen, but also giving equal opportunities for people with disabilities to work in the screen industry.

Joanna 09:57

Because I feel like I've just been so incredibly lucky that people have made me opportunities. So I feel a real responsibility to afford that same opportunity to other people and also just continue to advocate for people with disabilities and other people within the industry.

Yeah, so that's me so far.

Angel 10:23

Listening to your bio, it's interesting. It makes me want to dig really deep into this statistic because I remember Kurt Fernley talking about, he often talks about the opportunities that he's been afforded in his life and being given a helping hand in times when he needed and how those moments can change the trajectory of your life as a person with disability.

So, there's this interesting relationship that I often think about when I think about my own personal journey and when I hear about other people with disability being grateful for the opportunities that they've received. And I wonder if you could speak a little bit to that relationship between skill and opportunity and how you see all that working together.

Joanna 11:22

Have you been in my own head Angel? I've been thinking a lot about that lately because that is such a huge thing, that whole idea of just be grateful for the opportunities that you've given and I think I've been really trying to, I've been really reflecting on that because, on the one hand I go yes I am grateful but at the same time I feel like I've got to acknowledge the fact that I've worked hard, I've worked really hard and I have valuable skills just like everybody else and… I'm sorry there's a plane going over… and I think that that relationship that you have between feeling grateful and just your own self worth it's such an interesting and complex one and someone with a disability and it's something that I've been really working hard on lately because I go I've just been thinking but you've worked really hard to get where you are and yes it's fantastic and wonderful that you've had people come into your life and help you but at the same time you have skills just like everybody else

So I think it's a very complex thing and I think it would be something that I and other people with disabilities will reflect on and challenge often throughout their life because it's such a narrative that we have to come up against constantly and you're just like can't I just have an opportunity because I worked hard and people saw my potential and wanted me on the team isn't that just enough so it's such a complex thing and yes one of the narratives that I've really tried to challenge with myself lately thinking about where I want to go next and the kind of projects I want to work on and who I want to work with and

and also just that thing too I think and I've spoken to Emily Dash a lot about this too and she was really fantastic she's not only she a wonderful friend to me but she's also a great mentor and she made me really great advice because I was talking to her recently I was given I was asked to do something and I had said yes but on reflection I was I thought I actually didn't really want to do that but I just said that because you know it was so lovely that I got asked and you know it's just so nice to be thought of and she she gave me this really great advice which I think everybody should use she said to me you know when someone offers you an opportunity think about what am I going to be getting out of this opportunity? Is it something that I want to do? Is this person or people I want to work with? How would this help me develop as a human being? Professionally? um is this just going to be a fun opportunity so before you say yes to something think about it

Angel 15:12

It's really, it's great advice and it's interesting because I think you've probably just hit the nail on the head there when we talk about perhaps the contrast between people without disability and people with disability.

There is more just anecdotally, there is more of an imperative for people with disability to say yes to everything for fear of well next might be a no. And I think it can not just be quite harmful for people with disability because if we're thinking, if we're thinking from the perspective of the Spoonie approach, you know, like it takes so many spoons for a person with disability to, you know, be involved to share in the same opportunity, knowing unless unless you are working in a very inclusive space and you, you know, have covered all the access requirements, then you may not necessarily feel disabled in that space and you might be able to manage your own spoons a bit better.

Angel 16:28

Otherwise, there's this additional level that we have to consider, you know, or this layer that we have to consider that sort of is more of a challenge. So it's interesting. So you sort of just, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, actually, I'm burnt out a lot sooner than what I expected.

Joanna 16:51

Yes, or I just don't want to do it because honestly what benefit is it going to give me.

Angel 16:58

Well, now it's amazing because I feel like people without disability perhaps hone that skill maybe a little differently to what we would. And you get to this point now where you're like, oh, well, I'm actually quite entrenched in my career and I haven't quite figured that bit out yet. Like that's probably, I should have thought of this in the beginning. That's really great advice. We need to send some love out to Emily Dash for that one.

Joanna 17:34

It goes back to that whole thing of just being grateful.

Angel 17:41

Well, that's it too, I think. So even the phrasing of when we say I'm just grateful for the opportunity, it's almost or for the opportunities that I've been afforded. It's such a someone else has been in control of affording me that, you know, that sits interestingly in my brain.

Joanna 18:05

Yes, and that's even made me, I've also been very aware of the kind of language I use lately. And yes, because grateful comes in a lot.

Angel 18:24

That's really I feel like that's a really important practice. That's really cool that you've been going through that. You mentioned as well about on your journey, someone spoke about the US being great for screen and TV, but also for accessibility. I'd love to hear about the contrast or the differences between Australia and the US, like physically, accessibility wise, but also potentially in the in the industry.

Joanna 19:00

Well I wasn't really at the time, I wasn't really working in the industry but I can talk about accessibility wise it was great. I was able to access all the lecture halls and they even had an accessible bus and that was great.

Joanna 19:21

So I didn't have any accessibility issues which is really interesting and I think because maybe in the US they're so hyper aware of it all and also I think people were also consciously aware of being sued so everybody was really conscious of making sure everything was accessible and also I had a really good point of contact they had a great disability officer so if I had any issues I could chat to him like one of the things that I found really interesting that I would never have needed to think about living in Australia is how I would manage the snow because I went over in August and I stayed over there for six months and left in December so I was going to be living in snow so it was really great the school organised because they had a nursing home for priests, retired priests and one of the priests had an electric wheelchair so I borrowed his wheelchair for a couple of months and got through the snow which was really interesting

Angel 20:49

There's a buzzing question in my head. What did he do?

Joanna 20:53

Oh, no. He actually died. Yeah, sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

Angel

I'm like, did you just steal someone's wheelchair? He's just like, don't worry. I'm old I'll just stay inside over the winter.

Joanna 21:08

Haha yeah sorry, important detail here. He died. But they kept his electric wheelchair. So luckily for me, because that was one of their concerns when I had put in an application was how is she going to manage like being at the uni and snow.

So again, and as you touched on that, I did a lot of planning, a lot of planning before going over and had a lot of conversations with different people. Also, we had, they also had a really great study abroad office and some really lovely people there who were also great support.

Joanna 21:57

So I could check in with them anytime. And they would also make sure that things were accessible. And if I had any issues, I was able to speak to them, but I definitely did a lot of planning beforehand. And I think that's something that we have to do as people living with disabilities, we’re always planning. I've never known to feel what it's like to be spontaneous.

Angel 22:30

It's something that we just spoke about and I think going back to the statistic 22% of people agreed that people with disability have less to look forward to than others. And we were talking about before we started recording that something, just as you've said, something about having to shape your own life on a day-to-day basis actually makes you more intentional in the way you live.

It's interesting because I mean that seems to be the goal, you know, when you think about enlightenment and the Buddhist philosophy and all those kinds of things, you know, the thing that we're all trying to achieve is to be more mindful in our lives.

And so, I mean, I personally find myself in a very intentionally crafted life that I'm immensely proud of. And most of my friends that are people with disability find themselves in the same sort of spot.

And I wonder how you feel about that, thinking about the statistic and knowing that, you know, that's something you have to do in your life. How does that shape what you look forward to or, you know, shape your life?

Joanna 23:53

I think it's really helped me just to have a positive perspective and also just always trying to look for the positive and if something doesn't go to plan, just go, okay, I've got to accept this and get on with it.

Like, you know, if a taxi doesn't show up, you know, think, okay, what do I need to do next? And also, I've just really thought about, okay, what kind of life do I want to build for myself? I find it really interesting that 22% of people think that people with disabilities don't have anything to look forward to because as cliched as it sounds, I go, we are people too, like, just because we live differently doesn't mean that we don't have the same goals and aspirations as everybody else does and that also doesn't mean that we have to achieve huge things.

Joanna 24:54

Like, we could just live a quiet and simple life and that's great because that's what we feel our purpose is and what we want to get out of life and that's completely fine. Like, we are masters of our own destiny and we have every right to choose to do things or not to do things just like everybody else.

Joanna 25:17

So I just, I find that statistics really interesting and I think it's also, I think about a lot how when, say, I get people coming up to me and say, “oh, what's wrong with you?” while you are in a chair, sometimes I don't feel like answering that but then I go, no, actually, this is a good opportunity to have a conversation with someone and hopefully change their perspective and go, you know what, actually, living with a disability isn't a tragedy, it's just another way of being and, you know, we are people too with emotions and big lives, you know, and I don't know about you, Angel, but I really, one of my pet hates is when people, when I say to someone, how are you and they say, oh, I'm just so busy and I just go, everybody's busy, everybody, like, it's just, it's just, it is what it is

Angel 26:20

It's one of my pet hates for a bit of a different reason. I, maybe it is part of this intentional, you know, life thing that I have, but I've listened to a lot of people who, you know, talk about working more effectively and all that sort of stuff.

And there's that thing of like, if you're busy, you're doing it wrong, you know? Like if you're living your life intentionally and you're, you know, creating a work-life balance, you shouldn't be busy, I find a lot of people are just busy to make themselves feel busy. Like they have a purpose, like they're doing something, but I feel very grounded and like I have a purpose, so I don't feel the need to be busy all the time. And I think it has a little side effect of being like, oh, well actually I can take on more, I can hold more, I can do more because I have that perspective.

So it's, yeah, it's interesting. I do also have a thing about that comment.

Joanna 27:32

Yeah, so I think it all just comes into that. Yeah, it's an interesting thing, that whole idea of being busy. But yeah, I think people with disabilities have so much to look forward to. And I think, again, we get to have so many more opportunities than able-bodied people do. I'm sorry, but I think that's the truth.

Angel 27:57

My chat with Joanna was so much fun that we needed to cut it into two. The next one will be a part two. Make sure you check it out. Thanks for joining us. This has been the Attitudes podcast. If you'd like to learn more about the survey visit the University of Melbourne website or head to the Attitude Foundation website for more information on us.

Angel 28:15

This podcast wouldn't have been possible without Matt Field from the Attitude Foundation and Alex Varley from Northcott, hosted by me, Angel Dixon, produced by Lucy Griffin and edited by Simon McCulloch and Evan Munro-Smith.