CSUN Assistive Tech Conference

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Stephen Jolley 0:08

Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from March the 25th 2025 I'm Stephen Jolley. Great to have you with us - listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network. There is also the podcast - to catch that, all you need to do is search for the two words talking tech and down it can all come, usually on a Tuesday afternoon, just after it's been produced. Another option is to ask your Siri device or smart speaker to play Vision Australia Radio, Talking Tech podcast. Vision Australia Radio, Talking Tech podcast. 

He's back - Damo McMorrow, Vision Australia's national Access Technology Manager. How was California?

Damo McMorrow 0:53

Absolutely fantastic. Was a bit of a whirlwind trip, but thoroughly enjoyed it. Met some fantastic people and learnt a lot.

Stephen Jolley 1:01

So you attended the CSUN Assistive Technology Conference. It's a major technology event. Tell us about it.

Damo McMorrow 1:10

Okay, so it's put on by California State University. So CSUN stands for California State University, Northridge. It's one of the biggest assistive tech conferences in the world. It's held at the Anaheim Marriott in Anaheim, California. And it's really a mixture of presentations and fairly significant exhibit halls. There was usually sort of maybe 10 presentations running at any given time. They sort of break it up into 40 minute time slots, and then the exhibit hall was actually split over two very large rooms, lots to look at, lots of presentations, and just generally, lots of people from all around the world.

Stephen Jolley 1:57

How many people there do you reckon?

Damo McMorrow 2:00

I would say a few thousand. The exhibit halls were always packed. The presentations were busy. You know, everywhere was busy. The hotels were full. So, yeah, it's definitely very well attended.

Stephen Jolley 2:15

So it was a couple of weeks ago. What days did it run?

Damo McMorrow 2:20

From the 10th to the 14th of March.

Stephen Jolley 2:23

Right, okay, Monday to Friday.

Damo McMorrow 2:26

That's right.

Stephen Jolley 2:27

Well, I'm sure you saw heaps of stuff, and we won't have time today to talk about it all, and we'll talk about lots of it over the coming weeks. I'm sure one thing that has been attracting attention is a device from a company called Glidance. Where's all that at?

Speaker 1 2:44

Yes, it's an interesting one, this one - because, you know, they don't actually have the product to market yet, but lots of people are interested in it. And in the UK, in the US, they've, they have taken pre orders and that kind of thing. So we did touch on this a few months ago, but Glidance is the manufacturer. The Glide is the name of the product. It is essentially like a guide robot. The main body of the device is a cylinder, and you have a telescopic handle that protrudes from the top of it, and it has two wheels. The cylinder itself is probably about the size of a rockmelon, or a small watermelon, something like that. And it has two wheels on the bottom. 

It has two cameras mounted on the handle, one that points down towards the ground, so that it can detect stairs and cliffs and other such things. And then it has another one that points forward for obstacle detection. I actually got to test walk this one, and I was quite surprised by a few things. First of all, I assumed it would move under its own power, but it doesn't. You have to actually push it along in front of you. And the reason for that is that, that way, you've got control over the pace that the thing travels at because you're you're setting the pace. I think I expected it to look a little bit more like a Roomba with a handle, so more disc-shaped, where it is definitely more sort of cylindrical. 

The idea is that you walk along, you push the device ahead of you, and when it detects an obstacle, the handle will sort of twitch, so it provides fairly significant sort of haptic feedback. So if it needs you to, for example, steer left, the handle will kind of twitch to the right a little bit, because that's the way you would push the handle in order to get it to turn left. If that makes sense, it also, if it detects an obstacle, will lock the wheels up. So if it detects stairs and that kind of thing, it won't move forwards until you change direction slightly to go around things. And I was able to wander around the exhibit hall and dodge people walking in every direction quite successfully with it. 

It will also have a Scan My code, so that you'll be able to scan a room, for example, and then, using your voice, tell it, you know, Take me to the door, Take me to the counter, that kind of thing. So, yeah, it's definitely got a lot of promise. The Glidance folk were really nice people to chat to, very passionate about their product, and I walked past that stand almost every day of the conference, and there was a lineup each time. So there's definitely a lot of interest in that one.

Stephen Jolley 5:29

When do you think we'll see it in Australia?

Damo McMorrow 5:31

I don't think we'll see it here for maybe 12 to 18 months, would be my guess. And the reason for that, talking to the folks from Glidance, was that they want to get it up and running and bring it to market in the UK, in the US first. But they say, and quite rightly, that each market or each country has its own sort of nuances. So for example, in Australia, we walk on the left side of the footpath, whereas on the in the US, you tend to walk more on the right. So, you know, there's different nuances for different markets, and they want to make sure that the programming reflects that. 

And I think also, while in a lot of cases, I do get excited and want to be an early adopter, sometimes I think with something like that, it may be better to wait for a few months till they iron some of the bugs out of it.

Stephen Jolley 6:18

What sort of money are we talking about, and what sort of a payment model will it be? Will you own it, or will it be subscription?

Damo McMorrow 6:25

I think it's actually a bit of a hybrid. So I think you pay up front for the device, which I think they're looking at about $1500 US, but I think for some of the AI functionality that you know, there'd be a small monthly payment. But don't quote me on that. I'm not 100% sure from memory. I think it's a hybrid model.

Stephen Jolley 6:43

Very interesting. So that's Glide from Glidance.

Damo McMorrow 6:46

Yes.

Stephen Jolley 6:47

Now a lot of us have been gaining experience with our Meta glasses over the last few months - but in time, that's not going to be the only one in the field. There'll be a number of other devices. Tell us about Echo Vision.

Damo McMorrow 7:01

Yes, so the Echo Vision glasses from a company called Agiga - A, G, I, G, A. These are similar, I guess, to the Meta glasses, in terms of, you know, the frames and the arms are a bit thicker than your RayBan Metas, but they do sort of have a camera and an LED mounted in a similar sort of position. Agiga themselves say that they were designed for blind people by blind people, so that a lot of their development team and their CEO, I believe, is blind. So they are something that is blindness-specific, as opposed to something mainstream that works well for us as a happy accident, if you like. 

There are a couple of significant differences with these. One is that Meta, as anyone who's used the Meta glasses would know, by choice, it won't describe people you know, they've made that decision for privacy reasons, and it's something which is a bit of a... bit disappointing, in that we're not really asking for anything other than what a sighted person would be able to pick up, whereas the Echo Visions will give you a description of people, it also will give you a description of scenery, but it will do it in a sort of a clock-face format. So for example, if you were looking at a bathroom, it would say that the door is straight in front of you, and the sink is at 10 o'clock. The paper towel dispenser is at 12, and the toilets at two, for example. 

So you know, if you were using a public restroom, it's easier than having to kind of wander around and feel around something that you don't know how clean it is, because you know where you're going with it. It's also useful if you're navigating, you know, rather than just saying, I see a door, I see a cafe. It's nice to know that that's at two o'clock or at nine o'clock, or whatever it might be, and it does have quite a wide angle lens. 

The other thing that it does, which I thought was quite impressive, was that it will give you a description of facial expressions. So for example, you'll get something like... There's a man in a grey shirt and glasses standing directly in front of you, and another man with short hair and a red shirt standing at 10 o'clock. The man in the grey shirt is smiling enthusiastically. And if his expression changes while you're looking at him, it'll say, you know, The man in the grey shirt is is looking slightly annoyed. So that's kind of useful, and it's feedback that we don't get as... blind people. So I was... quite excited by those. 

They are looking at, I believe, around about $600 US, though, they are currently taking pre-orders, I believe, and they hope to have them out, I think in the next few months. I don't think they will ship to Australia yet. In fact, I'm sure they won't. I did talk to Agiga about that, you know. But if there are ways around that, if you've got access to a US freight forwarder or some friendly people in the US will ship you one when it's when it comes... to market. But, yeah, definitely an interesting product. And you know, some significant functionality differences between those and the Meta RayBans - I don't know, you know, we will be, and are, starting to see things like live AI with Meta. 

So, you know, it might be a watch this space. They may catch up, but at the moment, there's definitely some differences there.

Stephen Jolley 10:22

So that's Echo Vision from Agiga - they're a US company.

Damo McMorrow 10:28

That's right, yes.

Stephen Jolley 10:29

I think it's a German company now been doing some interesting work in the area of tactile graphics.

Damo McMorrow 10:36

Yes, this is a company called Tactonom - T, A, C, T, O N, O, M - and they've got a different approach to tactile graphics to some of the other devices that we've talked about on the show over the last year or so. The Tactonom Flex is a essentially a touch sensitive tablet-type device, and it has a camera mounted so on an arm, so that it sits over the top of the touch surface, and you can then place either a tactile diagram, so something perhaps generated on swell paper, something that's been drawn on a using a draftsman kit, or something like that, or even a 3D model, like a little resin model or a figurine, or a something 3D-printed. 

You can place that on the surface, and you basically using their software, when you... first get the diagram, you produce some annotations. So you generate a QR code that the camera scans so that as soon as you put it on the tablet, it knows what the diagram is. And you can annotate different parts of the diagram using the software, so that as you touch parts of the diagram using synthetic speech, it will speak what you're touching. 

One of the examples that I saw was a map of the United States, and as you touch different parts of the map, it would say Iowa, California, Texas, Connecticut, whatever it might be. And it had a navigate mode. So if you're touching Connecticut and you want to know where Iowa is in relation to that, you can say, Navigate to Iowa. And it will guide your hand. So it'll say, move your finger up to 12 o'clock, you know, now move to nine o'clock. So it gives you an idea of where one thing is in relation to another. 

Now, the interesting thing about that is that they've got a library of, I think, over 4000 diagrams that are already downloadable and printable with annotations, that kind of thing. So you could print something out, run it through, something like a XY fuse or a PR, you know, make yourself a tactile diagram and then be able to interpret it yourself. You know, I don't know about you, Stephen, but I always found with tactile diagrams, if it's something that I didn't have a frame of reference for, like an elephant, which I've never been close enough to really explore, I wouldn't necessarily know what the diagram was, and I'd have to have someone say, Right, that's an elephant, and that's its trunk, and these are, this is its tail - whereas with something like this, you can explore the diagram independently. 

And I wish I'd had that as a kid, because I think I would have probably coped much better with tactile diagrams as an adult, had I had the ability to sort of explore things more.

Stephen Jolley 13:20

So it's really taking the role of the teacher or the friend explaining what you're looking at, and then you can make a lot more sense of it.

Damo McMorrow 13:30

That's right. And you can also, as I said, you can use a 3D diagram. So I looked at a 3D model of a church.

Stephen Jolley 13:35

Is this device out yet?

Damo McMorrow 13:37

It is out in Germany. I don't know that they're shipping internationally yet, but we're keen to try and get some feedback on it to see whether it's something that would be of interest.

Stephen Jolley 13:47

So we've been talking today about the Glide. We've also been talking about Echo Vision and the Tactonom Flex. And if you want to find out more, you could just search using those terms and the right webpages would come to your attention before we go. A reminder that you can find details of what we've been talking about in this and previous editions of the program by going to varadio.org/talking tech - VA radio dot org slash talking tech. To write to the program....

Damo McMorrow 14:22

Damo D, A, M, O, dot McMorrow, M, C, M, O, double R, O, W at Vision australia dot org.

Stephen Jolley 14:30

damo.mcmorrow@visionaustralia.org ... This has been Talking Tech - with me has been Vision Australia's national Access Technology Manager, Damo McMorrow. I'm Stephen Jolley. Stay safe. We'll talk more tech next week. Bye.

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