All In - Episode 4

Speaker 1 0:06

Welcome to all in the show that celebrates the incredible world of disability arts and culture where creativity knows no bounds and voice is amplified. My name is Zoe Simmons and I'll be one of your co hosts today.

Speaker 2 0:18

Hi, my name is John and I'll be one of your co hosts.

Speaker 3 0:21

Hi. My name is Lachlan, and I too will be one of your co hosts. Each week, we'll dive to all things disability, arts, advocacy and culture, from spotlighting underrepresented voices to discussing the issues that matter to people like us with disabilities. We're here to shake things up.

Speaker 1 0:38

This week, we'll be joined by musician Saint Ergo and psychologist l k bridge to talk about the importance of disability advocacy and seeking mental health support. Get ready for a ride through creativity, community and change, because in the world of all in everyone's advantage.

Speaker 3 1:08

So what's it been like for you as a musician who was neurodivergent, disabled and transgender? If that's if not to be disrespectful, which, but just as I thought

Speaker 4 1:21

it's quite okay, I think it's a wonderful question to ask. Thanks. Lachlan, it really is about me, all of those things, being neurodivergent, being transgender, having a disability, all of those things are part of who I am. So it feeds into the lived experience. It feeds into the writing. It feeds into the production and into the performance. And so I love being able to be my full self on the stage. And how's that going? It's going really well. I'm so happy with my team. I'm so happy with the music. Everything's going really well. Fantastic things to

Speaker 3 2:00

look it's really good to hear how you're getting a lot of support and love for that. Well, I really, I really am quite happy for you, and I can support that very much.

2:09

Yeah, thanks. Lachlan,

Speaker 2 2:10

how does the world be more crucial for people with a disability? Well,

Speaker 4 2:15

it's a fantastic question, and it's one that I'm really enjoying looking at at the moment, because I've had to think about, what do I need as someone who's neurodivergent, as opposed to someone who might be a wheelchair user? For example, a lot of accommodations are made for people with physical disability, but not so much for people who are neurodivergent, and those things are often really invisible. So for me, it always starts with a conversation, and then it's got to move on to if you are going to have a space that's for sense, that's sensory friendly for people who have sensory needs, the best thing to do is have a person with sensory needs design the space, or at least check it out, because sometimes they're just not fit for purpose, and that's something that I'm really, really keen on for, not just for myself to be able to perform, but for all of the other musicians that I know that are incredible that can't get up on stage and perform because it's Too noisy, it's too loud, it's too bright, it's all the things that are really difficult for us. So

Speaker 1 3:25

let's talk about the music Victoria award. How was that for you to win that?

Speaker 4 3:29

It was pretty interesting. I had really, really mixed feelings about it. You know, I'm 52 years old. I have been working on music for a very, very long time, like 30 odd plus years, writing, producing. And there was a huge part of me that went it's about god damn time, and there was a huge part of me that was just completely in disbelief that I'd been selected, because I had almost given up hope of ever being recognized, and I didn't actually realize how much it meant to me to get the award. I was carrying it around like a little baby for a couple of days in my and I had it in my bag, and I was just pull it out and touch it. It was really, really funny, but I just loved it so much, and it was a wonderful opportunity to get up on stage as me, wearing my noise canceling headphones and carrying my little plushie with me, and just be me and going, I'm proud of being me. I loved that so much, and to have that opportunity to just

Speaker 3 4:42

film that feeling where you win something or someone gives you something that you've always wanted or that you you're just not sure if you deserve that much love or respect, but you actually got something that you should be very proud of. That's, yeah, I did you should be very proud of yourself. It's very. Me,

Speaker 4 5:00

yeah, I have been, and that's a weird feeling to be for something like that, but it's like, you know what? I'm here. I'm a person that has a disability. I'm a person that's old, you know, 52 I mean, it's not really old, but

Speaker 3 5:19

we might be for,

Speaker 4 5:23

for the music industry. I'm old, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a trans woman, you know, I struggle with a lot of things. But I wrote those songs, I recorded those that were those songs. I produced, it mixed, it did all the things that I needed to do to create that music, and people seemed to really love it. And that was probably the most precious thing about the award, was that as I was walking up the aisle, people were just tapping me on the arm and, you know, just saying, I think you and I love that song so much. You know, talking about the song Falling so hard, you know, it was really difficult to get that out this year. It was the only thing I've managed to get out this year. But I am so grateful that I could do that. I'm grateful that people really, really seem to love it. So it's

Speaker 1 6:18

so great you get to represent as your authentic self. And you know, for people to be able to see these things represented and celebrated rather than stigmatized, like, you know, so many identities often are, which is ridiculous, because we're all human. We all deserve to be loved and cared and celebrated. So it's so, so great to see you being celebrated. Oh, thank you. Thanks. Sorry.

Speaker 3 6:39

So what's the best advice you would give to any emerging artists? Okay,

Speaker 4 6:44

I love this question so much. Thanks. Lachlan, I have kind of a little bit of a controversial view on this. A lot of people will say, Oh, now don't give up, you know, keep on pursuing your dreams. You know what? I think it's actually really important to know when to give up, you know, because if the thing that you are not doing is if you're the thing that you are doing is not working, then keeping on doing it is going to hurt you and put you backward. So really is my best advice is build yourself a team who believes in you, because otherwise you're going to get nowhere. We need support to be able to do this. So building a team who believes in you is really important. And if somebody's just coming along trying to cash in on you or just be a support worker or a support person, maybe that's not the person, but someone who actually goes, No, I think what you're doing is amazing, and I want to help you. That's That's what I feel like. We need to cultivate

Speaker 2 7:52

empowering community, empowering community together, power empowering community and knowing support worker that you've got a manager that would actually support you and care about you. So

Speaker 3 8:03

that's not just that, but also other people, like friends of family, yeah,

8:08

yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 8:09

How does, how do you people can find about you? Okay,

Speaker 4 8:12

yes, so I have lots of ways people can find out about me. I've got a website, Saint Ergo com. I've got social media, so st ogo music and Facebook. So that's Facebook and Instagram. Tik Tok, YouTube. You know, I'm still working on content with those things. I've got a mailing list, and I think, but you know, if you wanted to look up my music, it's available on all of the streaming platforms, but especially it's available on Bandcamp. And Bandcamp is great because it actually pays me, whereas Spotify doesn't really pay me. But some, you know, band camp's the best option for any musician, really, because it's or, you know, if you've got physical product, which I don't have. But you know, band camp so sturgo.bandcamp.com, and it's S A, I n t, e R, G O,

Speaker 1 9:10

Gina from st ergo, thank you so much for coming in today. It's been so great to hear your story and your messages, and I can't wait to see what you do in the future. Thanks so much for coming.

9:19

Thank you.

Speaker 3 9:21

This week, we are joined by our regular segment host, movie and TV buff, James Harkness, now, James, can you tell us what film you have in mind that you brought for us this week?

Speaker 5 9:33

I can thank you. Lachlan, so, look, I wanted to talk about a film called A Scanner Darkly, which is by a director called Richard Linklater. It was made a number quite a while ago, but what I I've been on all in a couple of times talking about films which depict psychosis. I have schizoaffective disorder, which I've mentioned. And I've talked about films that I can relate to with my psychosis. This particular film is an adaptation of a Philip K Dick book. And Philip K Dick was an interesting guy. He wrote science fiction books, and the majority of his science fiction books he wrote while under the influence of amphetamines and experienced a psychotic state. Now, I'm not claiming to have experienced anything or for those reasons, but I have schizoaffective disorder, which is a little bit different, but look some of the experiences that the characters go through in this film, again, I can relate to this is, I'd call it an anti drug story at so there's certainly. It paints a picture of a policeman going into a house which is populated by drug users and drug addicts, and they're addicted to a fictitious drug called substance D. And it shows the way this drug that the film has themes of paranoia and them worrying about surveillance, and then they're actually being surveillance. All very paranoid, uh, psychotic schizophrenic states, and yeah, ultimately, this is a, as I say, it's an anti drug story. The it really does remind me of the ice epidemic that we've experienced here in Australia, which can lead to using ice can lead to psychosis and ultimately an acquired brain injury. And that's, that's what happens in this story. But, yeah, again, there's, there's, I can relate to some of the stuff in this book, in the sorry, in this film. That's, that's why I picked this, this film, yeah, well,

Speaker 3 11:55

it sounds very, very dark, serious and intense. And so just a very interesting topic you are having mine for this week. James, yeah,

Speaker 5 12:06

well, look, it's, um, it's, it is dark, you know, and I'd call it an anti drug story, but I'm a big fan of Philip K Dick's books, and I'm a fan of this adaptation, as you said, it's a it's an adaptation, and it's sort of, it hasn't, it's it's animated this film. It's an interesting it appears in an interesting way, but it is, it is dark stuff, but it's um, I think it's very poignant. And given the way people use, for instance, methamphetamine in Australia. It's, you know, it's a cautionary tale, is what it is. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 12:47

the film depicts mental health and psychosis. I always wonder, with these films, how would it be if people just got mental health support instead of using illicit substances that might feel like they help, but ultimately end up do harming people quite a lot. Do you think that mental health support would have helped for characters or anyone that you know that experience psychosis? Absolutely.

Speaker 5 13:08

Zoe, it's a it's a good thing to say. I mean, what I'd say is that for some people experience it can even just be anxiety. They can self medicate with drugs, and sometimes it's to someone who's not really clued into the mental and the mental health system still needs a lot of improvement here in Victoria. That's why there's been a Royal Commission, and it's still got a long way to go for someone experiencing anxiety or some kind of trauma, or whatever it might be, it might be easier to actually just go and buy some drugs than to go and see a professional and to, you know, recovery from a mental health issue is is a difficult thing, and it's the cert the services aren't that aren't great yet. You know, as I say, I'm not at all condoning drug use. It's, it's not, it's not a good thing, but it's, it is an issue with paper. Drug use is, is an issue with paper, with mental health issues,

Speaker 1 14:12

and it is a reality of our society, even though we may not want to talk about it. People deserve to have care and recovery, and if we didn't have these issues, get to the stage where people feel like they need to escape, maybe things be better. Maybe if we had more mental health care sessions, for example, maybe if we had less stigma against mental health. And that's true, you know, more education rather than just demonizing things.

14:34

That's right. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 14:36

Thanks so much James for coming. It's been great to have you as always.

14:39

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 14:48

You're watching all in I am so excited to welcome our next guest, the incredible l k Bridgeford Leo is the founder and director of cultivate where she works as a proudly disabled psychologist. She's also a writer. An educator and podcaster. Lielle, thank you so much for coming in today. It's so great to have you as a guest. Thanks

15:05

so much for having me.

Speaker 1 15:06

Firstly, I'd love to ask, How has your lived experience impacted your career and your life? Thank

Speaker 6 15:12

you. Zoe, well, firstly, I think I've always wanted to work in the health system because of my lived experience. I grew up as a disabled kid, and I was in and out of the hospital a lot, so the health system really affected my life. So I've always wanted to work in the health system, and then I've realized that, because I knew what it feels like to struggle with how you feel about yourself and your place in the world overall, with all of the aspects of my live experience, that I decided being a psychologist and specifically supporting disabled people and other marginalized people is just a perfect fit for me. And I guess, you know, I've worked in a range of settings, in mental health and in disability, and I think having my lived experience has enabled me to sort of see the problems that we have, the ableism, the sexism, the xenophobia, the racism that sometimes my colleagues didn't really see or weren't impacted by, and I think it affects me quite deeply. Of course, I was also discriminated against in various settings, but I guess now where I am in my career, it really is like my superpower, being a psychologist and being a disabled psychologist enables me to bring all of who I am into my work and provide such a safe space for clients that I think is still so much lacking in our mental health system. So being able to say openly to all of my clients, this is who I am, and I don't mean that I take space in the therapy room, but when I meet a new potential client, I have no problem with saying and I'm actually quite intentional about saying, This is why I do what I do, because I'm super passionate about our right to live a really fulfilling and full life, just like everybody else, and I can do that together. We can understand what internalized ableism means for you, we can dissect it. We can get rid of it. We can get rid of the shame, and we can use mobility aids if you need or ask for accommodations, whatever you need to do to live the best life that you can. Yeah. So that's a little bit about that so important,

Speaker 1 17:16

and it is not enough. We do not get access needs or anything considered. So it's so important to have people working

Speaker 3 17:22

this way. What was it like for you navigating the world as a disabled person and a immigrant?

Speaker 6 17:29

Thank you. Well, when I first moved to this country, I felt quite amazed. I was quite amazed by how accessible this place seemed, Melbourne and Australia overall, so I was pretty excited about it, but of course, there are still a lot of barriers. And for me, I think some of the struggles that I've had were finding a new community, because I moved to this country by myself, so I had to find a whole new community, whole new set of friends and support around me. And it's always tricky to find out who is a safe person to say, Hey, this is who I am, and actually reveal all the things about me, and also something that I've been scared of, and I still am a little bit scared of, even though I'm an Australian citizen now, there's still a little bit of a niggling fear in me that I might be kicked out of this country because of my disability, and The reason for that is because we still have ableist rules and regulations in our immigration system in Australia. So I don't know if you've seen on the news, but it has happened multiple times in my time in this country, where whole families where visas were revoked or not approved because of one person's disability within the family, and for me, it's so shameful and terrifying because this is my home, and this is where I belong, and the prospects of being somehow kicked out because of who I am is terrifying. And I really think that that should be changed in our society

Speaker 2 18:59

seriously. So we have to all agree on that's something that we need to change in government.

19:04

We need to change it.

Speaker 6 19:06

Yeah, so that's kind of the majority of, I guess that the kind of struggles, but it's also been difficult sometimes with even services. So for example, when I had my baby, my first baby, I was struggling, like a lot of new parents, and being able to say to the support system or the maternal health nurse, hey, actually, this is really hard for me. I'm feeling lonely and I don't have enough people helping me physically. I was really scared of saying that because I am an immigrant, and I don't know what that means for my visa status, and it kind of creates a sense of isolation sometimes, but it also has been wonderful, because my openness to finding new people and a new community has enabled me to find the disability community, and that has truly changed my life for the better. So I'm very grateful for that, and I'm very grateful to be in this country where we can have this. Conversation and we can provide a support for disabled people that we deserve.

Speaker 1 20:04

Why do you think it's important that we have psychologists and mental health support for disabled people, especially people who are disabled themselves?

Speaker 6 20:11

Yeah, thank you for the question. I think it's really important something that a lot of people are not aware of. There are such strong connections between being disabled and mental health. So as one example, our statistics tell us that one of the leading risk factors for suicide is having a chronic health or a physical health condition. So inevitably, having a disability living in an ableist society affects our mental health. That's just natural, and we live in a society that glorifies being so called independent, right? And so when you're disabled and you have to use support, you have to ask for help or something needs to change about your life, it brings up, naturally, brings up grief and loss, anxiety, isolation. So that's why we have to have mental health supports to be able to make sure that disabled people have the same chance of being mentally and also physically well. So we know disabled people have worse health and mental health outcomes than non disabled people, right? And we also know that disabled women, for example, have even worse outcomes than disabled men, so we must have lived experience in our mental health system to tackle those issues and the discrimination that we see within the health his system trickles down into the care that we get as disabled people, and we have to change that if we want truly an equitable society. I see majority of my clients have disabilities. In some some disability, and I see it in my work with clients, but also we know from research that when disabled people have mental health supports that actually suits their needs, we have a much better chance of being well physically. We can manage our disability better. We have better social connections. So it's incredibly crucial. It's

Speaker 1 22:03

so important to have disabled psychologists, because it's so hard to exist with disability, especially in a world that's so stipetizing, so ableist. When I started developing my chronic pain, it was a huge mental thing, especially for me to start using ability aids, and I'm challenging yourself.

Speaker 2 22:19

I've got, I've got my psychologist myself. So it's really important to actually have a good psychologist team around me and good support. You know who you are. I know. I know you're watching my psychologists, and I know you're watching my psychology team. I know you're watching thanks for your for your help and your support. Without you, I wouldn't be here. Psychologists save lives.

Speaker 3 22:43

In all seriousness, though, I have to agree, though, with the fact that there's some people with disabilities that might need help, who have dealt with grief, loss and so on so forth, because they could, but I think it'd be good to help them of what their needs are, to help get through that dark place and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 23:04

Absolutely so many of my clients come to me when they first get a diagnosis of some disability, and you the amount of people that tell me the hardest thing about this is the mental side of it. It's not the actual physical side of my disability, but it's the mental side of processing the fact that my life is going to look different from what I thought, or my life is going to look different from what society tells me it's going to look like, or I need to ask for help from my husband or my children or my friends, and I feel so ashamed like the mental and psychological aspect of disability are crucial. Yeah, it

Speaker 1 23:38

is huge. Like, personally, my own mental health has been impacted a lot, although having that support really empowers you to embrace disability, to embrace your access. Needs to not be worried about, oh, I can't say I'm disabled, because what if I'm not disabled enough? No, if you are disabled, if it disables you, you're disabled, and you're allowed to identify is that? Yes,

23:56

how can

Speaker 6 23:57

we find you? Well, the best way to find these on the website. So cultivate website is cultivate with a, k, k, U, L, T, I, V, A, T, E, dot, a, U, and you can contact me there. There's lots of resources on there, and I'm also on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn. I think thanks so

Speaker 1 24:16

much Leo for coming. It's been amazing to have you. Yay for disabled representation, and

Speaker 3 24:20

here, here for what you say about respect and power for people with disabilities and the help that we need. Yeah, thank

24:27

you. Does?

24:28

It really does. Yeah.

24:30

Thanks very much.

Speaker 3 24:38

So welcome back to all in this week, we will discuss a area of interest for people with autism, but also disabilities, of course, and that there is, like, a higher rate of people that are among gamers. Now, what are your thoughts into where you got lots so because, because I know I am an autistic, and I do get. Gaming and Zoe, I know you are also a gamer as well. What would your thoughts be on people with disabilities who are into gaming?

Speaker 1 25:07

I have many thoughts. Personally, gaming is a really important outlet for so many people, not just disabled people, not just autistic people, but I think people in general, because it's a great escape. You can get yourself into another world. You can totally not think about whatever's affecting you in your daily life, and also do things that you can't do in

Speaker 3 25:25

your daily life, helping you be in your comfort zone. Yeah, you

Speaker 1 25:29

have to be a badass character that slays the baddies, and we don't get to do that often. There's a lot of barriers. But,

Speaker 3 25:35

you know, there's a thing I find on that should be a part of getting a job being a gamer is that take in, like, Super Smash Bros, for example, which is fantastic game, and you would know what's happening in the game, who the character is, and and all that. And I feel like that'd be good for maybe when you're doing video game hosting, like if you're being a video game show host, and all that for that game that that we're playing for this week, and all that that that's something that could be useful for a job as being a host in as a for video games.

Speaker 1 26:10

Yeah, I mean, people have this perception that gaming is like a waste of time, or something that just kids do or you'll grow out of it, and it's often all this alarming articles about it. But I've been gaming for my entire life, and I still have a successful career, so yeah, and I

Speaker 3 26:24

game all the time. It helps me relax and be in my own world, and all that helps

Speaker 1 26:30

with anxiety. It helps with mental health. Helps you get out frustrations, and it helps

Speaker 2 26:35

your world. It helps with a community, like to build a community. I know with with me, I have brothers that I do go to a gaming gaming now and then, if I can so and it went, it can build, build a community to be part of the community. It really

Speaker 1 26:55

can, even if you're not directly talking to someone, you talk to someone else about games or something, and you're excited, it great. It brings a sense of community and joy and fun. Yeah,

Speaker 3 27:04

so I wouldn't make a huge fuss about gaming, because I feel like it's it helps a lot people with disabilities, like we said, Get up, get out of our comfort zone, and make us be on our own world and have our own peace and quiet and all that kind of stuff. So good, so many benefits it is. I feel like there's some stuff into the games that you could you look at that person, thing they could be useful for to get a job out of it, and all that. You know, games

Speaker 1 27:30

are also really useful for working through your own stuff, because these days, many games do explore things like mental health, and you get to work alongside the journey as the character. And that can be really fulfilling and helpful to work through our own traumas, which is great, and it's also really great that a lot of gaming industries are getting more into accessibility. So there's actually accessibility features in all our games now, which is making it so great. I wrote an article recently, not recently, a couple of years ago, about gaming as a blank person, and that was so cool that it's becoming Xbox and other places are specifically looking for people to help with these things. I'm not sure PlayStation is I feel more

Speaker 3 28:06

recognized. Yeah, it's so good. Just disabled the really good song, exactly. Instead

Speaker 1 28:11

of criticizing autistic people, disabled people, or anyone who games, maybe try and see the benefits, because there are a lot of benefits, and you can actually turn this interest into a career, you can develop skills and find a job. And if you're interested in this, check out autism awareness, and you can check find out more information at Autism awareness.com.au, you've been watching all in thanks so much for watching our fourth episode. Disability representation is so important to us,

28:36

and nothing about us without us, we

Speaker 3 28:38

want to thank our special guest, st Ergo for joining us and Leo Bridgeford, I'm Lachlan,

28:44

I'm John and

Speaker 3 28:46

I'm Zoe. To find more info about our all in, visit power dot media.

28:50

See you next week, because when it comes to all in,

28:53

everyone's invited.

28:55

You.