All In - Episode 5

Shannon 00:00

[?Nick], welcome to All In - the show that celebrates the incredible world of disability, arts and culture, where creativity knows no bounds and voices are amplified. My name is Shannon, and I will be one of your co-hosts. 

Nicky 00:19

My name is Nikki, and I will also be one of your co-hosts.

Adam 00:23

And hello, my name is Adam, and I will be one of your co-hosts too. Each week, we'll dive into all things disability, arts, advocacy and culture, from spotlighting under-represented voices to discussing the issues that matter to people with disability like us. We're here to shake things up.

Shannon 00:43

This week, we'll be joined by Brimbank City Deputy Mayor, Dr Victoria Borg... and Janice Florence from Arts Access Victoria. Get ready for a ride through creativity, community and change, because in the world of All In, everyone's invited.

Nicky 01:00

First though, welcome to our arts and culture segment access. All this is where we celebrate the vibrant world of disability creativity. Today, we're joined in studio by Janice Florence from Arts Access Victoria. Janice is the artistic director and co founder of Weave movement theatre. For 10 years, she was a performer, a teacher and a researcher with State of Flux, one of Australia's first companies to include a dancer with a disability. Janice has worked and had residencies in the US and in the UK, she has been a pioneering force in the field of inclusive dance and physical theatre for the last 30 years in the wider community and art sector. Welcome, Janice, how did you begin dancing?

Janice 01:54

Thanks, yeah. Well, my mother used to tell me that I when I was three, I asked her if I could go to a dance class. And so I did go to dance class from the age of three to five, which was what was called Tap and Toe, which was tap dancing and ballet dancing. And then was at the Borovans Ballet School. And the Borovans Ballet School was kind of a forerunner of the Australian Ballet It was run by a whole lot of old, well, they seemed old, then Russian ballerinas who got marooned here during the war, and so I went there for for a few years, because I'm... about six foot tall, although, you know, I've been tall and short in one lifetime, because now I'm in a wheelchair. So I just felt totally out of place, you know, because they're all these little, skinny ballet girls. 

And then I experimented with a lot of different kinds of dancing. I did this Graduate Diploma of movement in dance, which was at Melbourne University then. But then I got really involved in dance. And so I got involved in forms of dance that are often based around styles of improvisation. And then I went to California, San Francisco, to do a dance, kind of three months workshop with this woman called Anna Halperin, who, what... had been a sort of avant garde dancer performer, that had evolved this whole technique of working with drawing and dancing - you danced to a self portrait, a life-sized self portrait that you made. So that was, yeah, it was great, incredible. Yeah.

Shannon 03:39

I mean, you've had such an incredible career over the last 30 years. What's been a highlight for you, if you had to pick one?

Janice 03:50

Well, before we've started, I was and then after, I had my disability, so all of those improv things were great. Actually, I was really lucky when I got after my accident, when I got back into after rehab, into dance, a lot of those teachers are very open minded, and took me back in, and I just found my way. Because, you know, once you get an improvising mentality, then you adapt whatever's happening to that sort of mentality and approach. So I was with a contact improvisation group with four non disabled dancers. And that was fun, because in at that stage, I was probably had stronger bones than I've got now, and I they would throw me around. They had no respect, no respect, throw me onto the floor and, you know, lift me up and put me back in the chair. 

And so that was fun, you know, because it gave me a whole lot of different dimensions to what I could do. And contact improvisation and dance were quite big in the USA. People got in. To dance who were wheelchair users through that form, yeah, in wave, like it's, you know, I just started off there with no experience as an artistic director and learn to and applying for grants and all that sort of thing, and the huge amount of admin that you do. And so that was, you know, a big learning experience, but we've had some great performances in weave. And the recent one was solos. We all the idea was that we, all six of us had made a solo, and we all chose the director of our choice. 

And so that was great because we usually work as quite a tight ensemble, and we have a sort of shared performance language, but it was really interesting to let people sort of make their own work.

Adam 05:53

Tell us about your role in Arts Access.

Janice 05:56

So my role at Arts Access is as the manager of consultation and training. So I've been at Arts Access for about 12 years now, and I've gradually worked, you know, worked in that area all the time, really, but came to the manager position a few years ago. So our function at Arts Access is to deliver training to the arts industry, so sort of the few different packages, but various forms of disability awareness training and then to consult with the arts industry. 

In recent times, we've helped out museums Victoria and Matt CO which is the organisation that's upgrading the arts precinct and arts house. We've sort of been engaged with them over years with their disability action plan and also reviewing they're really a fantastic model of devotion and commitment to their disability action plan. So yeah, that's the work that my team do there.

Adam 06:59

All very important co-design, yes,

Janice 07:01

Yeah, yeah, we've learned a lot from people we've worked with. 

Nicky 07:05

Why do you think that disabled led art is important? 

Janice 07:11

Well, I guess there's been a stereotype of, you know, poor, little, emerging artists, disabled, deaf and disabled artists being led by non disabled directors who obviously must know better. So I think it's important to get out of that stereotype and paradigm and to recognize that there are all kind of different kinds of people in the world of disability, and that people might already have a lot of experience, they might have done a course. You know, it's it's just getting away from that stereotype and empowering disabled people to lead their own work, instead of being sort of told what to do exactly.

Shannon 08:00

I mean, what do you think are some of the biggest barriers that artists with a disability face?

Janice 08:06

Ah, well, attitude barriers, obviously. And in the early days, I used to think that we weren't getting attention because we had a disabled artistic director. Things have improved a bit. Definitely, the interest in disability answers improved. And then there's physical barriers. You know, you've got to find rehearsal spaces and performance spaces that are accessible. Not everyone in my company has a physical disability. There's a huge variety, and that's been a good learning experience for me. But yeah, so there's those barriers and and then there are the normal barriers faced by independent artists of getting funding and doing all that work around you know, you become a small business person, really, so getting all that... 

Adam 08:53

Oh yeah, doing all that work - thanks for all the work you do in the Space, and thanks for joining us today. It's been a real pleasure for both me and I would say, on the behalf of Shannon and Nikki, thanks very much.

Janice 09:03

Thank you. It's a pleasure. Thank you.

Adam 09:13

This week we're joined by our radio segment host, movie and TV buff, James Harkness. This week you're discussing I Know This Much is True, starring Mark Ruffalo, so tell us why you picked this. 

James 09:28

Thanks, Adam. Look. This is a six-part HBO series starring Mark Ruffalo as... it's a 2020 series starring Mark Ruffalo as, in two roles. He plays a man with schizophrenia, and then he also plays his identical twin brother, who is the carer of that person with schizophrenia. So it's a carer and a patient, if you like. And I'm aware that in other episodes of this Channel 31 TV show I've talked very much about myself. What I love about this show is that it introduces the carer's perspective. And look, I... the other thing that it does is the patient with schizophrenia, the Mark Ruffalo character with schizophrenia, crucially, lacks insight into his psychotic delusions. He's got no insight. 

And my the experience I've had in life is that I have insight into my condition, but I, for instance, I have a relative who lacks insight into his condition, and it's kind of the crucial ingredient as to whether you can you can survive or even flourish with your illness, as opposed to not being able to. 

Nicky 10:51

I found it really striking that Mark Ruffalo was able to play both the brother who had the caring responsibility and the person with schizophrenia, and the... transformation between those two characters was profound. 

James

Absolutely. Mark Ruffalo is very open about his own challenges with mental illness and that he has ADHD. And I feel like he really delivered and bought that in that character, we get to see that experience of also when a carer, person in a carer or a responsible role has a mental illness themselves. 

Nicky

So in the case of, is it Dominic's the... 

James

That's right, yeah. 

Nicky

So Dominic has depression and he has anger issues, and then he's got all of this built-up resentment of trying to support his brother while not having his own needs met and not addressing the family dysfunction. Yes, this show had so many layers of complexity, it is...

James 11:51

Yeah, that's right, and that's a good, what you said is very true, yeah, and I learned that all of the cast, absolutely every cast member and most of the production crew had experience as carers. Have had experience with mental illness, and worked really heavily with with using other people's lived experience. So Mark Ruffalo said he went on to a lot of the social media platforms and joined groups of people with schizophrenia, and noticed that they were being really generous with their stories, and he embodied that when he was creating the character of Thomas. 

Nicky

Can like, do you think that that works really well for people like you've been generous and shared your stories. Every time we share our lived experience, we can see that that power.

James 12:43

Yeah, look, it's what I love about this film, is that the Mark Ruffalo character is that sorry, the guy with schizophrenia that he is playing is a very gentle soul. And I love that because my personal experience of schizo effective and other people I know is that it's a... debilitating condition, and so often they are, the people with this condition are very gentle souls, and that's just, you know, it's the way he's portrayed in this in this TV show. It's... contrary to what of what a lot of the mainstream media shows as being, for instance, inclined to violence or dangerous people, that sort of thing. The reason I picked this film is, I think it's... a great the way it shows the carer, you know...

Nicky 13:33

Look, you know, having disabilities myself, and then having the... sometimes it's hard when you're a parent to use the term carer, because you're a parent for it first and foremost, but it's incredibly challenging, like you know, though, that it is when your needs aren't getting met... and I think that that show was, it was great to see a show actually talk about the duality of those roles and and fascinating that Mark Ruffalo should play both of them. Yes.

Shannon 14:05

Yeah. Sounds like this shows really met a need and has addressed a gap in the market in sort of showing that carer role, and sort of interweaving that into the story and really highlighting that role a bit better.

James 14:20

Yeah, and, you know, it shows him to be a as all carers are, you know, my mother is, you know... they're flawed... they're...

Shannon 14:28

Empathetic and nurturing. 

James 14:31

And I was gonna say imperfect. They are, you know, just human like everybody else. Burn out and they get hot tempered, and they they experience vicarious trauma. And, you know, it's... 

Shannon 14:47

Yeah, yeah. It's really insightful, yeah. 

Nicky 14:49

Sometimes, in the process of trying to protect the traumas as a carer, you, you know, adding to them without into. Prevention just simply because of broken systems. Yes, and you're constantly having to advocate for the person, and then having to advocate for yourself. And you know, not all of that is a fine balance. And... I really think anyone like from both the carers perspective, but and people with mental health conditions or any kind of conditions, would get a lot out of the complexities and layers that this show offers. 

Adam 15:31

That's a great point, Nicky. It's almost like when you you referenced Beautiful Mind earlier, that's kind of, in a way, feels like the skeleton of it. But then the extra complexity from the lived experience, the personal experience, and expanding on the characters of the carer, more in a in a deeper sense, has made it more of a deeper and more honest, truthful story. If I can say that.

James 15:58

Absolutely. Adam, yeah, yeah, I think that's right. 

Nicky 16:02

It also explores generational trauma too. Like, I feel like there's no stones untouched in this particular series, yes.

Shannon  16:08

Well, look, thank you so much for your insight into this series again... James, it's always wonderful to have you on the show. 

James

Thanks for having me. Thank you. 

Shannon

And if you'd like to check out I Know This Much is True, you can see it on Foxtel, and we'll be back with you soon. 

Our next guest is author and Brimbank Deputy Mayor, Dr Victoria Borg. With a strong commitment to community, Victoria has dedicated her career to the support and inclusion of those with disability and mental health conditions, serving on Brimbank's Disability Advisory Committee and supporting my community group, Brimbank Disability Advocacy and Support through her mental health talks and her book Power Over Darkness. Victoria continues to break down barriers and dismantle stigma. Welcome, Victoria.

Victoria 17:02

Thank you, Shannon.

Shannon 17:03

Now you've been a longtime advocate for disability support in Brimbank. What motivated you to get involved? And what keeps you motivated?

Victoria 17:13

Well, the reason why I I've got such passion for all this is because of my own personal experiences. I've had... I've got rather a long history of depression, critical depression, and other associated related issues, you know, and it's very important for me to to continue working among the community and as much as I can and give to the community, because over the years, both through my own personal experiences, as well as through my own academic career which focus very much on mental health, more specifically on mental health of adolescents across cultures. 

Nicky 18:12

Can you tell us a little bit more about how your experiences have shaped your approach to community work?

Victoria 18:19

When I reached a very, very critical point in my life, back in 1987 when I embarked on a journey of self-discovery, that was very tough, because I had an insight into my own mental health problems, and that put me on a very, very tough road to discovery, and no words can describe it. The only way I can describe it is metaphorically and... but through those experiences, I gained a lot of strength. And not only that, when I had my insight into my problem, there was something inside me driving me and pushing me to start a diary, which ended up also an intensive study of myself. Wow, yes, I could see that I acquired a very, very important skill, which I didn't have before, and that was to analyse myself through all these experiences. 

Of course, you become more resilient and more compassionate and understanding, and I believe all that compounded with my academic knowledge and experiences that I gained along the way, all come into play when I do my work with the community. Because I believe that in understanding yourself, you understand others, and you also end up with being highly emotionally intelligent, and that gives me a lot of compassion and understanding whether I'm dealing with an individual, with a person, individually, or whether I am with a group of people, whether I am in forums, I am or discussions, I am in much better place now to share my knowledge with the community,

Adam 20:39

Absolutely, and with that knowledge of the community, I'm sure sees all the needs of the community as well. So how do you believe that we can better address all these needs on a more local level?

Victoria 20:52

Good question, something which I have been working on, especially since I've been on local government for these last eight years, obviously there is a great need for social support for people suffering with mental health related problems, and I think one of the needs is to raise awareness about mental health and the support that is available for us, if it is available for us, because I understand for some people, especially in certain municipalities, perhaps they find it very, very hard, even to find a psychologist or a counsellor. 

We need to get people at grassroots levels, and I believe that in our community, especially in Brimbank, with such a diverse ethnic community, we need to reach out to community leaders in specific ethnic groups, because they are the gate gate keepers of all the services, and they are the ones that can pass on the information about exactly, exactly. And another thing that I would like to mention in our community, which unfortunately is second highest disadvantaged municipality in Victoria, is that there is a large segment of our community who is not digital literate, and therefore they cannot, you make use of, you know, of the information online, and they really need to be given that information on a one to one basis, if possible. And I said if possible, because there is also a lot of stigma.

Shannon 22:47

Your book goes and talks about resilience in mental health, you know, and kind of intertwines the two of them thematically. What message do you hope that our readers would take away from reading your book?

Victoria 23:05

Excellent question. I would say one of the top messages that I would like to give is that unresolved trauma remains with us, no matter how old we are, and it keeps dominating us, and it manifests itself or themselves in psychiatric symptoms, including anxiety, depression, psychosomatic symptoms and even physical health. It's amazing how that trauma remains trapped in our body and in our psyche for that matter, and it keeps controlling us, if it is not unresolved. There's a lot to say about this, but unfortunately, does not permit so that would be one of the messages that I would like to read, the reader to take, and I cannot emphasize highly enough to start being taking notice, aware of our thoughts, our feelings, of our behaviour. 

And I always say there is a reason for these thoughts that go through our mind, no matter how horrible or disgusting they are. In fact, that was one of the insights that I had when I started this journey of self discovery, and I remember a thought going through my mind, do not censor anything from your mind, no matter how horrible or disgusting that was. And I would say, in hindsight, that was the unconditional, emotional love within the depth of myself that gave me that permission to allow these thoughts to come through and embrace them with love without being judgmental. And I think that was a real turning point in my life. 

Shannon 25:19

Yeah, look, thank you so much, Victoria. You're... such an incredible and passionate advocate for, you know, mental health and for disability, and it's been an absolute pleasure to speak to you today, and thank you for joining us and giving us some of your time today. And if you'd like to pick up your copy of Power Over Darkness, Victoria's book, you can do so at Amazon and at all good book retailers. 

Since COVID safety measures were removed in october 2022, disability advocates have raised concerns about the lack of infection control, warning of the risks of long COVID This condition can cause respiratory difficulties, neurological impairments, and even permanent organ damage, leaving many with lasting disabilities. Some in the disability community believe this inaction amounts to eugenics, prompting the formation of support groups and campaigns worldwide. 

One such effort is COVID action. Australia's petition safe arts and entertainment for all, which calls for better protections in live entertainment venues, vulnerable individuals face increased risks at indoor events, leading many to stop attending altogether, while masks are not suitable for all people with disabilities, the petition suggests solutions like enhanced air filtration, flexible ticket policies and masking where possible. It also advocates for continued online programming to make live entertainment accessible to those unable to attend in person, a benefit for many with disabilities. 

Some organisations, such as cancels have refused to act on state government health advice without legislation, further underscoring the need for change, advocates urge the arts industry to create safer environments so that everyone can enjoy live events without fear. You can learn more or sign the petition by visiting megaphone.org.au, and searching safe arts and entertainment for all you've been watching all in thank you so much for watching our fifth episode. Disability representation is so important to us. 

Adam 27:33

Nothing about us, without us.

Nicky 27:35

I am Nicky, and we want to thank our special guests. Janice Florence from Arts Access Victoria and Dr Victoria Borg.

Adam 27:44

I'm Adam. Thank you for joining us. To find out more info about All In, visit Powerd dot Media. 

Shannon 27:53

See you next week - because when it comes to All In, everyone is invited.