Unmasked - Episode 1

Jasper Peach 00:00

Hello, I'm Jasper Peach. Welcome to Unmasked. This is Wurundjeri Country and work on this show also took place on Djaara Country. As people who have deep respect and solidarity with First Nations people, we need to start the show by stating that colonisation is the pits and the pain and violence the rightful owners of this country experienced, still echoes and are perpetuated today.

Jasper Peach 00:25

I offer my heartfelt sorrow and respect to Elders past and present and to any First Nations people watching. Always was, always will be. What I'm hoping will happen here is Unmasked can be a really safe space for neurokin, my fellow neurodivergentastic legends that we can be a bit more ourselves, right?

Jasper Peach 00:50

So to illustrate what that means, I'm going to weave you a dream back in the annals of memory. And because typical folks may not get that telling stories is not about having a whinge, but about sharing an experience that illustrates how we feel.

Jasper Peach 01:06

It's not a whinge, it's just looking back in the review mirror. It's 1996. I'm in drama class. I mean, who knew I was dramatic, but we were doing a warm -up exercise. We've peered off and the teacher tells me, mirror the person you're facing.

Jasper Peach 01:23

Start off just looking at each other in the eye, standing pretty much nose to nose, be still and then I'll let you know when to move your body. We're all peered off straight away. I'm in a spiral because being perceived as a nightmare.

Jasper Peach 01:37

I'm certain I'll produce some sort of ammunition for whoever it is to use against me later. I don't know how to look at someone. I'm always looking at the floor or the blackboard or the window or at my paper in front of me or my desk because looking at faces never goes well or feels good.

Jasper Peach 01:55

I notice, horrified, that I cannot keep my face still. I'm licking my lips. I'm chewing the insides of my cheeks. I'm wriggling my nose. I'm worried. What if I smell weird or this person thinks I'm yuck or that I'm bothering them?

Jasper Peach 02:10

Their face remains impassive and serene but I can see they're noticing how much movement there is in my stillness but they're just doing the exercise like it's this easy thing. They can follow the instructions.

Jasper Peach 02:26

I can but not well and it's excruciating. The mirroring of body shapes is easy. I do it all the time and once I learn in psychology that when humans feel insecure we mirror the body language at the person we're facing.

Jasper Peach 02:41

It's a thing I can't stop noticing that I always do. It really bothers me. I can make my own body shapes damn it but I always come back to being the mirror when I'm with someone else. I still do this.

Jasper Peach 02:56

I do it in zooms at the doctor in the park with other parents. It's about fitting in and figuring out what to do with all the bees buzzing around inside me. When I'm at home with my family I just make my own shapes and often I notice they're the same shapes that my dad used to make and they're never sitting up straight or typical acceptable stances.

Jasper Peach 03:21

I'm so comfortable standing with my hands on my hips but I know that can be read as being cranky. Wherever I sit at home there's a complex cushion arrangement and there are places I really like to sit and places I absolutely will not sit.

Jasper Peach 03:37

So unmasking is tricky to learn to allow. I'm 43. It's only in the last few years that I've been having a go at it and now I'm doing it in front of a camera and it's scary but I want to do this so that anyone who watches this and also finds it scary knows it can be done.

Jasper Peach 04:00

We can do it together even if we never meet we're in it together. Let's unmask. Music is one of my special interests. We're just going to have a chat masks off. Damon Smith Hi. Oh my god where did you come from?

Damon Smith 04:28

I've just been sitting here listening to your vlog before and you're talking now.

Jasper Peach 04:33

I feel like you just came in a dream. So here's some statements about you that I think are true and you can let me know your thoughts at the end. You are a caring and theatrical man. You have a cute kid and your wife's name is Brenda and you love her so much.

Jasper Peach 04:48

You've won some awards for being good at performing and making great music. And you've also dabbled at weaving your mental health and neuro sparkles into storytelling kind of performances. Do you like to interact with other neurodivergent musicians in your collaboration?

Damon Smith 05:05

I do, particularly in The Mental Is Everything project. And there's plenty of people that fit that bill that I work with and love. One in particular who's an extremely close friend of mine. He is so much like me in many ways.

Damon Smith 05:22

And he doesn't have any labels, he doesn't have a diagnosis. We talk about stuff and he changes his mind every two minutes. And, but yeah, so I love being around people like that. It really makes sense to me.

Jasper Peach 05:36

What is it like to be you? I feel like I can write that down and that can describe and feel like something that you relate to.

Damon Smith 05:45

My life is, yeah, peppered with the things that we do, dropping off Rosie May at school, coming back home, being seriously lucky enough to be able to choose at that point which project I do. At the moment, it's the third part of mental is everything, which is the book.

Damon Smith 06:03

And I told you, and this is a fact, I was heavily inspired by your book. I was heavily inspired more that you did it, if that makes sense, because it's hard to do that. And I've been writing stuff for so long, and that made me think, I'm doing it.

Damon Smith 06:22

So, do I do that? Or do I go out the back and write music? Do I, whatever, I can do anything at that point. So I'm very lucky that I get to create at that level. I'm at a point where I never thought that I would really make any money in the industry.

Damon Smith 06:41

I've spread myself like butter over bread.

Jasper Peach 06:46

Um, I really, I loved what you were saying about feeling self -conscious about informing people of what you're creating. I feel that all the time.

Damon Smith 06:54

Social media is very difficult that way, I feel like a narcissistic idiot half the time.

Jasper Peach 07:05

know what people benefit from your artistry and they see themselves in you and the ripples that you create intersect with their ripples and create all these other beautiful outcomes yeah that you'll never know yeah please keep telling us a lot about your music but can we see some of you playing and and just witness what it is that you are of course yeah so let's have a look now

Damon Smith 07:30

The pain and the guilt are so much today And my time feels thin And I need a friend

Jasper Peach 07:53

Thanks for having a juicy chat, Damon Smith.

Damon Smith 07:55

Thank you for having me

Jasper Peach 07:56

I reckon we'll bring on our other friend, Al Carlson is our next guest. G'day, mate. G'day. So, can I say stuff about you to you, is that okay? That's great. And you're very welcome to always say no if I ask you.

Jasper Peach 08:11

Here are things I think are true. Your mates with cash savage, strobe lighting makes spaces inaccessible for you. You care about accessibility in the arts. You're a very silly sweetie pie. How was that summary?

Jasper Peach 08:26

Is there anything you'd like to add?

Our Carlson 08:30

It's really nice. The strobes, little secret, like I don't have photosensitive epilepsy, but it does affect me in other ways. But it's more people just coming up to me and saying, because of epilepsy and strobes, a lot of people that on the spectrum are coming up and saying, you know, I can't go to raves because they do this.

Our Carlson 08:51

I wrote to these people and said, can you not have strobes? I want to come. I mean, bed for a week. And it's like 10% of people with epilepsy that have photosensitive epilepsy. But it is, I just let people believe that.

Our Carlson 09:08

Interesting. That's such an interesting point across the people. Yeah. If they think it's me, then.

Jasper Peach 09:13

advocacy yeah yeah I mean all

Our Carlson 09:16

Although, if it is crazy, I'm out of here, I can't handle it.

Jasper Peach 09:19

Yeah. Yeah, I feel sick when there's... I feel sick, yeah, but... Yeah.

Our Carlson 09:23

and give me sages.

Jasper Peach 09:24

Can you tell us what your experience of epilepsy feels like in your body?

Our Carlson 09:29

um yeah it's it actually feels like taking the drug DMT and breaking through to the other side or something. It's DMT.

Damon Smith 09:43

Yeah, it's... what Jim Morrison took?

Our Carlson 09:47

You probably did. You probably did. It's like in everyone, it's supposedly the chemical that's released when you die. Whoa. It's like.

Jasper Peach

Yeah. Come on, dude.

Our Carlson 10:00

Yeah. Right. You just, well, I, everyone's kind of different Yeah. And I just start to feel real warm and something's coming. And I've been up inside of me and then black out. Yeah. And then you just wake up and don't know where you are. And yeah. Yeah. I just keep asking the same questions.

Our Carlson 10:15

Yeah. The last one, I was in bed. And then I didn't know that I'd had it. Yeah. And then I got up and was just talking nonsense to my partner.

Jasper Peach 10:26

Yeah, right.

Our Carlson 10:27

She was like you’ve had a seizure, it’s alright. And I was like no, I haven’t. And then just kept saying the same things and yeah.

Jasper Peach 10:35

Yeah, has there ever been an accurate representation of your experience of epilepsy that you've seen in any kind of pop culture or media or telly?

Our Carlson 10:47

It was actually a secret life of us. That's what I was thinking.

Jasper Peach 10:52

I wonder, yeah. Pretty good one. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Our Carlson 10:55

And that guy even turned into a jerk, which can really happen to you know, if you're not careful, you can just start to get angry at everything and yeah, but that was a pretty good representation. And I would have watched it at the time, but I didn't have epilepsy then, it wasn't until I was 33.

Jasper Peach 11:14

I remember watching that and thinking I've never seen this kind of framing of epilepsy in this way before and I wonder if it's accurate and so it's really great to hear that. Yeah and for then.

Our Carlson 11:28

And that, yeah, like it wasn't all perfect. I mean, I was set in its time. But yeah, it was, that was kind of really good, that one. Yeah, amazing, awesome. You don't see a lot of it.

Damon Smith 11:39

It's a great question because pop culture versions of what, like OCD for example, completely different to what actually goes on, you know, a debilitating disorder for so many people.

Jasper Peach 11:53

What's your experience of OCD life?

Damon Smith 11:56

Um, my experience is consistently playing out ritualistic behaviors, consistently since I've been here, when I was talking to this man before, when I was down, everything. And just consistently, I mean, that's an example, never hand me a texture or a pen.

Damon Smith 12:14

Oh, it's funny. Because I just start marking my body. Yeah. It's, I don't know what's going on.

Jasper Peach 12:20

Is it uncomfortable for you to mark your body?

Damon Smith 12:22

No, I do it, I think, because it's comforting. Yeah. Yeah. But the OCD thing is people, it's not as bad. It was really bad about, you know, five, ten years ago where people were saying, we've all done it and heard it.

Damon Smith 12:36

I think at some point, you know, I'm so OCD when it comes to my orangutan photo collection, whatever. But it's actually grammatically incorrect to say that anyway. You can't be so obsessive, compulsive disorder.

Damon Smith 12:50

About something.

Jasper Peach 12:55

is a wrong. Yeah.

Damon Smith 12:56

Big time, you know, and I said it's debilitating, it causes much grief and you know, ideally you're doing these things, you're touching things and tapping things and all this stuff because you're anxious and you think something terrible is going to happen.

Damon Smith 13:11

By doing that, it's not going to happen. And then you're made to feel stupid because you know that it's actually nonsense, but you can't

Jasper Peach 13:20

but you can't stop. I, yeah, I have OCD and one of my things is, so Mrs. Peach and I take turns who's putting which kid to bed so we swap each night and have equal time with each kid. And before, like, once they're asleep, so we read three stories, listen to a particular podcast and then sit with them till they fall asleep.

Jasper Peach 13:41

And before I leave the room, before my foot leaves the room, I have to say the same phrase every night or something terrible will happen. Please tell me.

Damon Smith 13:50

It's an incredibly funny, witty phrase.

Jasper Peach 13:53

just I love you my darling have a beautiful sleep and I'll see you in the morning that's well that's a beautiful and I said that every night of their lives perfect example yeah yeah but there are rituals that that don't feel so good and yeah it's it's a tricky one and also not necessarily represented accurately yeah reflected accurately yeah yeah um Carlson what is it like to be a performer who who feels driven to self -advocate for equity and access to space and performance

Our Carlson 14:34

Yeah, it's pretty fun and empowering sometimes and sometimes they're like, oh, what am I doing here? A little over my head and I don't maybe don't know enough or what I'm talking about. Yeah. Sometimes I know I'm destroying pathways by things I do, but in some days I love that and other days I'm like, oh, probably shut my mouth a bit more.

Jasper Peach 15:01

Do you mean pathways like connections with organisations or venues or... Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Our Carlson 15:07

I'd say a lot of festivals wouldn't want to put me on. Yeah, it's kind of wild. But that's my, like, I... That's your assumption. Advocate too hard, I'd say. Okay, okay. I called every band on Meredith Music Festival that used strobes, Abelists.

Our Carlson 15:23

Yeah. And I said, Meredith Music Festival, you're Abelists. And probably calling them out like that. It did create change fast, but... Where is the light? Yeah. Wow. Calling them out like that, I think, would affect me.

Our Carlson 15:35

Are there festivals that use strobes? Yeah. If I was there, I'd be like, well, we've got to stop using strobes, or we'd definitely not book a NACI. Yeah. It's going to call us out.

Jasper Peach 15:46

What makes a space accessible for you both as performers?

Our Carlson 15:54

Oh, no strobes for me, but the biggest inaccessibility that's going around is finding... There's only at like 300, 400 cap. There seems to be only really Northgood Social Club and Howler that are really accessible, and disabled people are happy to go to the beam before they know the whole thing.

Our Carlson 16:18

They've actually got disabled toilets. There's pathways to get through doors are actually big enough. There's just not many at all, and I don't know of many stages at all that have an access lift for anyone that needs that to get up.

Our Carlson 16:34

Mama Chen's in Footsgrave's been tirelessly campaigning and raising funds. I think they need 20 grand and they're getting pretty close. Amazing. But... It should be a given. Yeah, people talk about accessibility to go to shows, but...

Jasper Peach 16:51

who gets to make art.

Our Carlson 16:52

who gets to play, you know.

Jasper Peach 16:54

who gets to be a part of the community and who gets to be perceived and then who gets to be someone that's visible to others that means shows them that it's possible. My dear friend Eliza Hull talked about watching the arias as a child and going oh well I can't be a musician because everyone needs to take the stairs to get on to the stage to receive their award and we make these calls and these decisions based on what we see and we limit ourselves and we limit everyone by I guess by noticing the inaccessibility that limiting comes from an external gaze but the more we see disabled musicians, neurodivergent musicians who are being really candid about what we need as performers, more aren't we gonna see.

Jasper Peach 17:52

Carlson can you share with us a bit of your music because we're talking about it but let's let's get some context

Our Carlson 17:59

Just making a little clip for the other day and yes

Jasper Peach 18:02

You

Our Carlson 18:18

She was destroyed by the system, but she came back through art and therapy, we fucking love you, Chappelle. Chappelle called me there, yeah, what was that all about?

Jasper Peach 18:35

in her clocks that she makes? I really want one. Have you seen them, don't you? No.

Damon Smith 18:39

I don't really watch any news or... It's just on... I think it's on the news. No, it's not on the...

Jasper Peach 18:44

I mean the news for me is scrolling social media because I can't deal with the news but um Yes, she makes these resin clocks that look like the beach and she and then sometimes there's glitter and it's like she's she's got time

Damon Smith 18:59

He would have known that, yeah, that would be the same.

Our Carlson 19:06

It's about trauma and more the systems that are in place and the prison system and all things like that. But it uses one of Chappelle's, it's like a grab.

Jasper Peach 19:21

She responded to you at all about this.

Our Carlson 19:23

Yeah, we talk on the internet sometimes. She's like, thanks for keeping me relevant out there. Oh, it's so beautiful. And she replies to videos that people like at Chappelle Corbyn. Yeah.

Jasper Peach 19:33

I noticed in those clips that everyone was having a supremely excellent time and you feel like a person that really brings the vibe up, like you raise the vibration of the spaces that you're in. Is this equality that you've always had or is it something that you've found?

Our Carlson 19:51

I always felt like I was smart but not in the school way or anyone thought that I would have high marks because of how I talked in class but my marks were so low because I just got hard just in one form.

Damon Smith 20:04

My life as a kid yes

Our Carlson 20:07

Yeah, that system didn't celebrate you. It's a lot easier to make people laugh than it was to get an answer right. I guess you just sort of always done that. Yeah.

Jasper Peach 20:17

Amazing.

Damon Smith 20:19

This is Kevin Prenicast and when I play a lot of pianos for my job, right?

Jasper Peach 20:26

I hold Kevin. Of course. He's up. You're up with you, Kevin. Thank you.

Damon Smith 20:30

I played a gig in a jazz bar in Hong Kong and I think that's where Kevin, who's Kevin next to there?

Jasper Peach 20:40

Oh, this is my orange friend that my beloved deceased friend gave me, founded an op shop years ago, and I always think of her when I'm around. He's got his arm around Kevin there. Yeah, they're hanging out.

Jasper Peach 20:55

Yeah. Secret star. Yeah.

Damon Smith 20:59

Yeah, and I've had people say, like the same people were talking about before that exist. Yeah. And so, and but how do you explain that you're a 40 -something person with a small fluffy animal?

Jasper Peach 21:12

Because it's essential. I totally get it.

Damon Smith 21:14

What a straightaway. Kids get it. Kids get it. Yeah.

Our Carlson 21:19

brainwashed. No. Yet. No. No.

Damon Smith 21:21

They don't ask questions of why different people wear different things, why anything, nothing. When you go to school with your kids, there's no questions. It's about people and what they're doing and why they're doing it.

Damon Smith 21:36

And I learnt pretty quickly with my daughter, I think that's why it comes through us. They're just brainwashed through our horrible stuff that we say about other people and whatnot.

Jasper Peach 21:49

and about ourselves sometimes, yeah, yeah, we're going to now seamlessly segue into a thing I like to call what's what's my stim, yeah I've got the dancing toes at all times because no one can say it's just in my shoes and the bees can have a little hearty, I don't know if you both experience stim, can I go to Damon first and then Carlson, so tix stims, do you feel like talking about that?

Damon Smith 22:20

Yeah, ticks have been a big part of my life for years and we were saying before and before we came on the two of us that medication for bipolar disorder and other things can be similar or the same to other medications.

Damon Smith 22:39

In the case of the medication that he's taking it's similar to what I take. So I found with what I take is that it stopped any of these ticks. So you know seizures, ticks, well I get great joy or I received great joy when I would have a tick or an energy burst.

Damon Smith 23:04

I don't know why and this is such a great place to talk about it because I've never said this before in public but I can create energy from my lower underbelly and bring it up through my body and put it to where I want and I don't know what it is, I don't know why, maybe it's Qi if you're talking about Chinese medicine but I do know that if I meditate on it long enough it just and I can feel it now it just goes and just explodes.

Damon Smith 23:36

That's the closest I get to a tick these days but I used to just have used to tick all day and it was chirping noises you know things like that and I just felt way better but it was it was disruptive to people.

Damon Smith 23:56

I was in a restaurant once and made a big loud noise and the lady next to me got really up like scared and she put her hands on the table and a fork flew up and the plate and and the man said what's your problem and I said well I'll tell you if you come over and ask me nicely but so yeah I'm sort of glad in some ways that I'm not doing it all the time because it can be disruptive.

Jasper Peach 24:24

I wonder how much more visibility is happening. I'm thinking about shows like Heartbreak High, and there's a neurodivergent character who is, and it's hard to form a sentence because I have so much depth of feeling about what that's meant to me.

Jasper Peach 24:43

And that I know means so much to so many people. So I get a bit stuck with my words, but I think I see the younger, I sound like such an old fart, the younger generation, you know, I see people walking around with their noise -canceling headphones and I see people fidgeting and I see so much more of that now across the general landscape of humanity.

Jasper Peach 25:09

And it gives me so much hope that the ways that we are, that feel good for us, that aren't hurting anyone, will be acceptable and not disruptive, and it's just awareness, right?

Damon Smith 25:25

I totally agree. And I don't want to come... I should make the point that I don't think that it's acceptable that everyone be medicated so they stop doing what they naturally are doing. But I think I've seen it in my own household.

Damon Smith 25:39

I've seen Rosie the way she's reacted to me having a bipolar low or when I'm manic. And our little family runs better if I'm medicated or if I'm having therapy. But you know, for some of these things like the ticks, it's yeah, I would probably prefer to love.

Damon Smith 25:59

I mean, experiencing mania is actually quite an incredible thing. But it can be quite full on for anyone else. I mean, last year I absolutely swore that I had worked out how I invented time travel. And I had a week and a half obsessing over it.

Damon Smith 26:19

But it just, you know, I had a student over at the time. And I just wasted the lesson talking about it. And so it can be disruptive.

Jasper Peach 26:29

Is it painful for you to know that other people feel disrupted?

Damon Smith 26:33

Yeah, I mean I feel, I don't want to upset people even when you were saying before about talking about strobes. I swear it's my upbringing and it's coming from a conservative household which I don't have now but it's coming and I love my family but there's this nature, this conservative nature that would say to that well what about all the other people that know and want to experience a nightclub that has strobes.

Damon Smith 27:03

Like I don't know why but I'm always very, I'm trying to be a sweetheart so I think oh well there's that as well and I think that's- You're considering those. Considering is the word and sometimes I wish I could just not do that and say well I'm tired of this crap and just you know but I don't know.

Damon Smith 27:21

Yeah. I was- Yeah.

Our Carlson 27:23

brought up like football clubs, suburban, masculine and then now I kind of like I can say so much more than other people. It sounds like I grew up next to the airport because I did and I can, people will just listen to me.

Our Carlson 27:43

I'm a white guy and I yell into a mic and people will listen a hell of a lot more than they will listen to anyone else. There's just a bit of responsibility with that like smash down some walls for some other people.

Our Carlson 27:58

And I have that personality and everything to do that and you know sometimes it's a bit annoying

Jasper Peach 28:08

There's this great quote, I won't be able to think of the right words, but Claire Coleman, a First Nations author and scholar, said something about the first thing I do when I notice there's someone missing from having access to a space or a privilege of some kind is I open the door and then I rip it off its hinges and I see you in a similar light and that's the sort of work that you're doing.

Jasper Peach 28:37

Can I circle back briefly? Do you experience stims at all? Yeah. Yeah, what's your kind of deal with that?

Our Carlson 28:43

lots of feet as well. I chew the inside of my mouth a lot and then yeah I'd never spoken about this before either unmasked is good for me a lot of this. So recently I've been I've always known but you're like it doesn't really affect me it doesn't like I'm fine I can get through the world and you're like oh wait that is oh there's that thing oh mate's talking about this I do that

Jasper Peach 29:09

Yeah.

Our Carlson 29:10

But yeah, and I have this award here, and I just like do that. But I told my partner not long ago, and she was like, well, I didn't even know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, I don't know, I kind of...

Jasper Peach 29:23

Yeah, yeah.

Our Carlson 29:25

And it was what, like, I had done it without knowing for so long and then found out about stimming and was like, no, I don't really do that and then you're like...

Jasper Peach 29:36

Um, we're nearly out of time, which is, you know, devastating to me because we could literally just keep doing this for about seven years, but, um, there's two things that I'd like to do before we go.

Jasper Peach 29:48

So I've got, I've got this little, oh, I'll return you farewell. Oh yeah. Thank you. I've forgotten. Thank you so much, um, for hanging out on my knee with my orange friend. And so this is, um, a neurodivergent utopia bucket, and I'd love each of you to put an idea in here that we can build a world where we're in charge and the haters can, you know, go and take a breath and hydrate for a minute.

Jasper Peach 30:16

Um, and, you know, I send you love haters because that's what you need. Um, I'm really, I invite you to tell me an idea and then we'll whack it in, put it into our little world here. Thank you.

Damon Smith 30:30

put mine in there. Oh did you? Oh I'm not. Oh mate you're ahead of the game. I did something with it. Oh maybe I didn't.

Jasper Peach 30:38

Is it in the pocket? That's right. I remember we said pocket. All right, Carlson, would you like to go first?

Our Carlson 30:46

I would like to end neoliberal capitalism, maybe capitalism was a whole but I don't know if we're quite ready for that so let's just start with some restructuring.

Jasper Peach 30:57

Let's do that. Yeah. Wack that in the world. There we go. Oh yeah, that's good. All right, Damon, over to you.

Damon Smith 31:05

I don't know if it works with the whole thing, but I was thinking that it would be great to be in a place where mental disorders are not known as adjectives. Like I said before, you know, I'm so OCD or my friends so bipolar or...

Jasper Peach 31:22

And that, you know. Yeah, just minimising what it actually means. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you. I love it. Thank you. Thank you for putting it in the orange section. Get some vitamin C, no scurvy for you.

Jasper Peach 31:38

And the other thing I thought I would do because I'm not allowed to take them home is give you each an unfinished craft project. I don't know if you're into the craft, you're into it. Okay, so Carlson, I feel like this one is for you.

Jasper Peach 31:51

So I created this when I watched every episode of Mad About You, the sitcom from the 90s with Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt and then Murray, the dog. Every episode from start to finish when Mrs. Peach was pregnant with our first child and the guy always says, dig me.

Jasper Peach 32:13

But what my intention was was to stitch vegetables and fruit and to make it a double entendre of wholesome gardening, but also what Paul Reiser says in Mad About You. So there's some threads there. I don't know.

Jasper Peach 32:31

You can do what you like with that. Oh yeah.

Damon Smith 32:34

Like a carrot

Jasper Peach 32:36

It does that orange. Yeah.

Our Carlson 32:37

I got an archer in a few weeks so it's good to end up in there.

Jasper Peach 32:41

excited for that. So another hyper fixation I had was like making small toys, but all I've ever made as a crocheter was granny squares and I've never diverted from that.

Damon Smith 32:53

It's great. I could make Kevin a friend. Make a little pal there. Yeah, maybe a little packer or something. Yeah. I'll pack in my bag.

Jasper Peach 33:00

Yeah, yeah

Our Carlson 33:02

I did a rug like recently, that hook, that hook. Yeah, yeah, that was fun. Yeah, really fun.

Jasper Peach 33:09

I can feel doing that right now, I can feel the metal of the hook and the wood.

Our Carlson 33:12

Actually hated it. I was like that's only because you just want to get this done in three seconds like slow down and like don't

Jasper Peach 33:21

with a repetitive look. At the end of the show I never really know what to do because I don't understand about how to transition from one activity to another so I'm just going to sit here and look at you and by thanks both Al Carlson and Damien Smith.

Jasper Peach 33:39

I love you both Dealey thank you so much for unmasking with me this has been a beautiful conversation of radical visibility and I just I'm so grateful to you both for being here.

Damon Smith 33:49

I'm grateful as well, I love you too, thanks so much for having us.

Jasper Peach 33:53

Thanks mate.