Unmasked - Episode 3

Jasper Peach 00:01

Hello, I'm Jasper Peach. Welcome to Unmasked. We're recording this program on the stolen lands of the war -injury people of the Kulin Nation. And much of the show's creation took place on Jarra Country.

Jasper Peach 00:13

With deepest respect, sorrow, and solidarity, this always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Unmasked is a place where I'm gonna try and do what it says on the packet. I'm still learning to unmask, to find my comfort zone with letting these parts of myself be visible.

Jasper Peach 00:34

The parts I've always felt surging up and learned through necessity to push down and suppress. The biggest way I've masked is pretending to know what's going on when I do not. And to convince people, I know exactly what they're talking about, to quickly work out a way to interact with information that isn't all connecting yet.

Jasper Peach 00:56

Emails look like soup to me, but I've learned to pick out the parts that tell me where I need to be and when, and some vague themes. I just muddle along and hope for the best. I hope I'm in the right place today.

Jasper Peach 01:08

I guess someone will tell me if I'm not. The present day being an ableist hellscape or world, it's definitely a thing, alongside the positive shifts that are very clearly happening. There's a far greater understanding of the mirrored ways our brains can be.

Jasper Peach 01:26

And then what that means for our humanity. Kind of doing this in real time, as I reckon with four decades of believing that the person I knew myself to be was deeply flawed. My understanding was that I needed to change.

Jasper Peach 01:42

If I could just do life properly, work it out like everyone else seemed to, I would feel less square -paired ground -hole. But the thing is, doing life being a person, there's more than one flavor at the ice cream shop.

Jasper Peach 01:58

Eventually you find your people. You make sense of things and you take the logical next step. You make a banana split or something, I'm still trying to figure that part out. Here is a visual prop. This is something I've based on a bunch of infographics you can find on the internet.

Jasper Peach 02:18

It's the neurodivergent umbrella. It's not a comprehensive list, but if you identify as neurodivergent, there's room for you here. You belong and you don't need to push down your stims or your joy. You don't have to conceal your need for silence when the world is too loud and it hurts.

Jasper Peach 02:36

You don't have to settle for being treated poorly. Your access needs are warranted. If you self -identify as disabled, your disability is real. There's no reason why people shouldn't respect who we are and the brilliance we can bring to a seat at any table.

Jasper Peach 02:53

I'm reading these words because I can't remember things. This is accessibility for me to still be included in hosting a talk show with my notes that I need to read from. We're recording this in 2024 and I'm sure that we're rapidly shifting understanding of who the neurodivergent community is, of what makes us who we are.

Jasper Peach 03:16

In time some of this content will be outdated. Hopefully not in an offensive red faces kind of way, but this, it's a start. Welcome to Unmasked. Writers are people who make sense of things using the alphabet.

Jasper Peach 03:40

I'm a writer because my default is confused and writing makes me feel better. So I'd like to welcome our first guest today, Beau Winden. Hi, Beau. Hi. Thank you so much for coming on Unmasked. I know there's a lot going on.

Jasper Peach 03:55

Yeah, it's very...

Beau Winden 03:57

Very pretty, very exciting.

Jasper Peach 03:59

Feel free to, like, if there's anything you want to grab and just kind of squeeze or play with, that's what it's all for, yeah, feel free. So Bo, is it okay if I just, like, talk about you a bit and then you can tell me how correct I am and add anything that's missing?

Beau Winden 04:19

Absolutely.

Jasper Peach 04:20

All right, so I think this is the first IRL meeting that we've had, but we've spent some beautiful time online together in a disabled poets group. And so some of the things I know about you is that you love gaming.

Jasper Peach 04:33

You're a beautiful writer. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. You're a wear -a -dry guy. I love the way you speak. The tone of your voice feels so nice to my ears. It's so lovely. And you're really into tattoos.

Jasper Peach 04:48

I am. Are there other things that you'd like to tell us about yourself?

Beau Winden 04:52

Um, oh well, I suppose I also really like sleeping. Um, I like chocolate orange, I'll put that there. Um, I'm obsessed with pro wrestling as well. Like, um, that is the lens through which I understand the world.

Beau Winden 05:08

And I feel like that's, uh, you know, why I've really gravitated towards writing. Um, not just as like a therapy tool, but as like, you know, sharing it with, um, the world when there's the opportunity, like, you know, having it published because that way people get to see my, um, you know, process of like understanding myself.

Beau Winden 05:32

And for them to see that, my hope is that it'll help people to understand, you know, what neurodivergent people go through a bit more.

Jasper Peach 05:42

Can you tell us a bit about your flavors of brain situations and neurodivergence, what's going on for you and how and also how that intersects with your writing?

Beau Winden 05:55

Yeah, absolutely. I always refer to myself as having a disordered alphabet attached to me, because I've got so many diagnoses, diagnoses, diagnoses. Diagnosor assessors? Yeah, diagnostics. And I've had them my whole life, so I was diagnosed as a kid.

Beau Winden 06:15

And when you're diagnosed as a kid, you're kind of like singled out if you go to a regular school because they'll constantly be pulling you out for special education. So I've got autism, ADHD, OCD, generalised anxiety, depression.

Beau Winden 06:35

And because of that, yeah, it would always be pulled out of class. And that gave me a lot of shame when I was younger, you know, because they wouldn't do it in like a kind, kind of quiet way. It would always be like, OK, Bo, Martin, Josh, you guys have to get up and go out to your special education, especially in my classes where they couldn't, I guess, put up with our disruption, which is funny because now in my creative life, disruption is like what kind of powers it.

Beau Winden 07:10

I'm doing my PhD at the moment, which is around the aesthetic form of neurodivergent, literary memoir. And so part of the process of that is trying to like really get my head on the page without masking it.

Beau Winden 07:28

Yeah. And so I've come up with these three different forms of writing, which I call like the mask, which is, you know, you can open any book and look at it and it's like that's masked writing. There's the filter, which is this confusing point of trying to unmask ourselves because it's very difficult when you've been told your entire life you have to write like this, you have to talk like this, you have to be like this to fit in.

Beau Winden 07:55

And then I call it the heart, which is when you can create something and have it look just like how your head is.

Jasper Peach 08:05

I've got all the same letters as you, and most of my diagnosis came in adulthood. Oh. I think it's, yeah, it's really interesting. I was expressing grief to my psychiatrist about not knowing why things had been so hard.

Jasper Peach 08:21

And she said to me, well, you know, if you were diagnosed as a child, you probably would have had a pretty bad time. And hearing that scream.

Beau Winden 08:29

It's it is a very interesting to me like the difference between early diagnosis and late diagnosis Because most of my friends were also like late diagnosis and you know, there's two very different types of trauma That we go through was like there's this trauma of that I guess being singled out and othered and You know made to feel like an idiot when you're a kid because of the diagnosis and then there's the trauma of not Understanding like what is wrong with you and it's it's like these two really different things But it's still the same kind of trauma of it I guess like just being othered and being made to feel as less than when you know, we're not less than

Jasper Peach 09:13

Yeah, I loved the setting that we met in, which was Andy Jackson's The Future of Health, gathered a bunch of disabled poets together to create a body of work. And that was the first time I really felt comfortable in a group.

Beau Winden 09:33

It was such a beautiful group. Yeah, everyone was just so welcoming and accepting. And, you know, I found it funny that everyone, you know, would talk about, like, how they apologize so often. And Andy said something about, you know, we're not going to apologize, but everyone still went through that process because it's like...

Beau Winden 09:52

It's so hard to unlearn. Oh, it is so hard to unlearn. Just having it as a default.

Jasper Peach 09:58

Yeah, I'd really love if you could share a poem with us. Oh, absolutely.

Beau Winden 10:04

Um, am I allowed to stand when I read it? Absolutely. Yeah. I just, um...

Jasper Peach 10:10

I want you to, I want all of us to just feel like we can be how our bodies need to be. Awesome. I kept noticing that I keep tensing my legs and why am I doing that? What purpose? But I think it's all the busyness in my body just finding a place.

Jasper Peach 10:26

Yeah. Please stand up and be comfy and yeah, do you want me to hold anything? No, no, it's alright.

Beau Winden 10:32

This makes me feel more confident than I am. I love it. Okay, so this is a poem called Gathering of Thoughts and Anxiety and Anxiety and Anxiety, also bow, 1 .0. When I attend, Invitationalists, I attend when my foot on foreign soil, I am not here yet.

Beau Winden 10:55

Yet here I am on foreign soil. My footsteps, footsteps, steps, steps into a circle, step, circle. Sir Kil welcomes me. Welcome, it says, and says, and asks, who are you? I am a fireball, in that I am small and brief and pretty and dangerous, maybe.

Beau Winden 11:14

But maybe not. It depends on who is starring me. Lulu from Final Fantasy X, yeah, dangerous. Mario Mario from Super Mario, well, it's 50 -50, depending on the puppeteer. Hulk Hogan, not dangerous, a little cute, Strangerus in a pathetic way.

Beau Winden 11:29

That is me, I'm Hulk Hogan's fireball, I'm not wet. I am a charade, expertly performed, yet poorly executed in the explanation of ideas. I'm the desecration of ideas. I, deer, am the deer, I, of the deer, I, caught in headlights.

Beau Winden 11:44

I'm an explosion of disgust, no. Disgust lust for curiosity, pent -up animosity, floss, loss of narratology, discussing disgust of my notoriety. I'm a minority, mistaken for a majority, but presented as minority for the majority of the time.

Beau Winden 12:00

I open my mouth. I'm the human expression of self, dirty, minded, degenerate youth, uncouthed, like George Bluth, generating degeneration since 97. Often I make no sense, but sometimes I make sense, rarely dollars.

Beau Winden 12:15

At 13, I still played with my sister's dolls. I'm unwanted by the elite sleeping I am me, because scared that I'm a creep, that's why I'm always alone. I'm scared to be a creep. I don't understand the line between cool and friendly, and annoying, and creepy, so I stay away from the line.

Beau Winden 12:32

To find the line, because de -lined, I'm fine in my decline. I'm afraid I'll die alone. I'm ready to be on my own. Mind blown with no loan. I'm ready to be told to leave. Razor like Bulbasaur, saw like razor fades.

Beau Winden 12:47

I am a language that sounds almost English, mixed with a bit of similish, fished through nets from a fable untold, hold me till I'm told where to go. Where to go is the name of the store I own, in a recurring dream I have, where I live inside of a video game, and I am made of pixels and eight -bit tune art, and I am a cat.

Beau Winden 13:09

Great, big, fat cat with a big, cheery grin, and a coin that I lick and lick and lick, and you think I'm making the coin lucky, but I'm not, I'm not. I'm just convinced that it's chocolate. At my party, every coin is chocolate, and I am a one -deer land.

Beau Winden 13:26

When was the last time you saw a butterfly in love? And was it purple and was it spartan pink? That's how it always starts, because that compatible, compatible, come, pat a bull. And then I get gored.

Beau Winden 13:37

I am a tourist, and people say that makes sense, but I need dollars. I am a gathering that no one attends. Thank you.

Jasper Peach 13:48

How do you feel about the poetry?

Beau Winden 13:49

Click, click. Oh, it makes me very uncomfortable. Oh. I'll go that way. That's all right. Thank you for telling me. Flapping. I find the only one that doesn't make me uncomfortable is the- That's land.

Beau Winden 13:59

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's just something because I've just finished something where I've been nervous delivering it, and all of a sudden there's all this noise, and I'm like,

Jasper Peach 14:10

It's it's transforming from one state to another. Yeah, feels like to me it almost feels like a form of violence sometimes Oh, absolutely possible to achieve. Yeah, well being

Beau Winden 14:23

absolutely absolutely I should start mentioning that when I do a read and I can you guys don't have to if you didn't like it but I would prefer this to like

Jasper Peach 14:33

Yeah, sound vibration, feels, baggage, totally get it. That was so beautiful. Thank you. I love it when you read. Thank you so much. I'd like to introduce our next guest. So, I've got his book here. Kaya Wilson.

Jasper Peach 14:53

Ah, hello sunshine. Hello, you're in the TV. Traveling through the sky as pixels, as well as being a writer, you're a scientist. And I was going to ask you if the creative part of your mind battles it out with the practical science part of your mind, but I'm making a massive assumption there.

Jasper Peach 15:16

Do you compartmentalize those elements of who you are or do they kind of mush together in a lava lamp formation?

Kaya Wilson 15:23

I love the lava lamp analogy. Honestly, I feel like I don't separate those two things, but the world does, right? So like my life, I have a day job as a scientist and I'm like hardcore science all day every day and it requires this incredible precision and type of clarity and thinking and then the creative stuff happens outside of that and my most happiest and favourite times are when they do smush and lava lamp together.

Jasper Peach 15:57

Yeah, and once who you are, it's all these beautiful parts of yourself just kind of making good stuff happen.

Kaya Wilson 16:04

Just it right like part of self acceptance is like bringing back all those exiled bits or like and having them exist as one.

Jasper Peach 16:13

So you're one of my good friends that lives in my phone and we have our little confession booth eternally on the go. We talk about writing and bodies and community and brains and healing and hotties.

Jasper Peach 16:26

I wanted to pose this question to to you Bo as well and and to you Kaya. Do you think it's easier for those of us under the neurodivision umbrella community to communicate with one another whether it be how blunt, clear, curious or expansive we are that is there a feeling for you both of safety and simpatico?

Beau Winden 16:51

I think absolutely, it feels, you know, I feel like they're going to understand me more and I'm not going to have to apologize as much. So it's just like it feels closer to an even playing field rather than, you know, I guess worrying constantly about they're not going to understand where I'm going.

Beau Winden 17:11

So I have to over explain all of these different steps.

Jasper Peach 17:14

and do that additional labour, but you can just, yeah, you can just be yourself, beautiful self. How about for you Kaya?

Kaya Wilson 17:23

Yeah, I think that safety thing is definitely real and also like even if five years ago I didn't think that was the case Now pretty much every one of my friends had a diagnosis of something so yeah, I guess it kind of shows

Jasper Peach 17:36

We kind of gather in attractive clumps. This is kind of how it works. It feels good to say clumps. It's kind of lumpy but also smooth. So, cry out your memoir as beautiful as any other. It's one of my favourite books.

Jasper Peach 17:54

The way you write, it draws the reader in to be with you. What did it feel like as people interacted with you after reading your story?

Kaya Wilson 18:03

I love that angle that you've taken there in terms of is there a exposure? I mean there's a sort of decision you make with memoir and you know they say like 30 decent memoir is something that makes your mother blush.

Jasper Peach 18:21

I've never heard that before.

Kaya Wilson 18:24

I mean, yeah, like, there's a certain letting go you have to do for it to be good. And I know people that have written essentially memoirs but presented it as fiction. And I wrote it for no one to read and then came back.

Kaya Wilson 18:44

So, yeah, that initial like, oh, many people have read it. It's a real thing, right? Like, you're like, oh, you know these intimate things about me and I've just seen your face. Yeah, but you sort of get used to it to a degree and sometimes it's beautiful as it will hotwire a bit of intimacy.

Jasper Peach 19:07

Mm.

Kaya Wilson 19:08
And sometimes there's like you get like sometimes a look on their face and there's just something that they're thinking But you don't know what it is And it's usually if they're uncomfortable about something So yeah, like it contains multitudes that experience But I've definitely got used to it to some degree And you know there's something about a book that people think is really like official or important

Jasper Peach 19:34

People should all just write a memoir, frankly. Kaya, can you read a bit of your work for us? We'd love to hear some of your book.

Kaya Wilson 19:42

nice that you asked. So I'm working on a novel now. It's young adult main character cocky kid called Romeo. So give you two minutes. This is a world debut. Okay. The day hadn't started like it was going to the spewing the roses.

Kaya Wilson 20:05

At the basketball courts, I'd be on fire. It's going three pointers like they were on sale. No one to take the shots coming through with a winner right when we needed it. The bull was behaving bouncing I wanted it to hitting my fingers just right everything under control.

Kaya Wilson 20:23

I could do that thing that I did when everything was in flow, looking ahead squinting my eyes and turning everyone into shape through the curtains of my hair. Or feign move and watch them flinch. Move from side to side keep the reacting to how I move my body, my personal orchestra.

Kaya Wilson 20:41

Then when the time was just right, take a run, make a charge, move as to jump, let those lemmings lift those bodies over commit and take off. I would halt, pivot hard, turn back in as they fell reverse to a layup.

Kaya Wilson 20:56

I could control them, humiliate them, let them think they had something like they too could kiss the ball. Then I'd take it away. The courts were somewhere that I had power. And the world as I saw it then was all about power.

Kaya Wilson 21:11

Who had it and who did it yet to take the power where you could or gravity took it from you. The basketball courts high school catching the bus parties parents a constant fight against gravity. But when all eyes are on me, my hands my ball in these moments I had power.

Kaya Wilson 21:33

What the fuck is with the hoodie in summer anyway? Jared always wanted to trash talk when he was feeling the gravity. His eyes were darting between my hands, sweat freckled across his face. He was trying to win back the ball and failing.

Kaya Wilson 21:46

The lucky hoodie you mean? I won the game that day. I knew I would as soon as I picked up the ball, my fingers just knew what to do. It was like it was written in the stars. And you know what? I was born to play basketball.

Kaya Wilson 22:03

But my greatest power there's nothing boys like less than losing to a girl.

Jasper Peach 22:12

Ah, Kaya, what a treat to hear some of your new work. I'm really excited to read more of it, or preferably to hear the audiobook version, as you know, that's my thing. I listened to your book before we ever had a conversation and I was one of those people who just decided, well, this person's gonna be my friend and then I just made you be my friend.

Jasper Peach 22:35

So sorry and you're welcome. Both of you, I have this perception that public speaking and performing is quite a comfortable space, a comfortable gig for each of you, is that true? It is for me too. Why do you think that is?

Beau Winden 22:52

I'm just, I'm more comfortable speaking at people than with people. You know, I think when I have conversations with people trying to figure out when to contribute in that, I end up like shutting down and not saying anything, whereas I do have a lot to say.

Beau Winden 23:07

And so, you know, being on a stage with people watching at me, it's like, oh, I can like just go now. And I've just always felt comfortable with that.

Jasper Peach 23:17

Mm, how about you Kyle?

Kaya Wilson 23:18

there's something about it that I enjoy that brings like this like incredible focus and it's just like a certain amount of activation that brings out that focus where I just hum,
and that is pleasurable.

Jasper Peach 23:35

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. I really relate to what both of you are saying. I love when I have a job, when I know where my job begins and ends, because then it's not confusing. When am I meant to, like sometimes now, because I understand my autism, I will ask my wife after we've left a social situation.

Jasper Peach 23:58

Why did no one ask me that question? Because I thought it was my turn next. And she's like, oh, it's just because this happened. But I feel really rejected.

Beau Winden 24:08

Yes. Oh, that rejection feeling is like, it'll ruin my entire night if everyone talks about something and they all share, but then I didn't really get a chance because things have moved on. Moved on.

Beau Winden 24:20

Like, what's happened? I haven't moved on. Yeah. The whole rejection, sensitive dysphoria.

Jasper Peach 24:29

Yeah, it's such a painful thing.

Kaya Wilson 24:34

there's like permission to be totally intense yeah like you don't do that in normal life so sure yes

Beau Winden 24:41

Yeah, I love a chance to be intense. Me too.

Jasper Peach 24:45

Me too, yeah, and I feel like that's my natural state, is that sensory -seeking, just, like, I was about to say balls to the wall, but I won't say that, just really going for it and going really deep on a subject or a feeling or being expansive and not being limited by the conventions that don't fit properly.

Jasper Peach 25:11

You know, I'm never gonna wear a high -heeled tree, I can't walk in that, but I can wear a Birkenstock

Beau Winden 25:15

pretty well. You know you don't see a championship belt every day. People will just like accept it as like a cool quirky thing that oh he's just coming along with a championship belt.

Jasper Peach 25:25

And and you're just being who you are. Yeah, such a beautiful thing to see anyone doing that

Beau Winden 25:32

Yeah, exactly. It makes me so sad when people will put things in the closet or give them away or something because they feel like they've outgrown them or it's like, oh, I can't do this now because I'm an adult, I've got a serious job.

Beau Winden 25:47

And I just think people would be a lot happier in their serious jobs if they could take things that make them happy like World Heavyweight Championship belts.

Jasper Peach 25:57

random garden gnomes. Yes, yeah. That's my thing. I have this dream to make personalized garden gnomes. I don't know how. I don't have very good fine motor skills.

Beau Winden 26:09

If you ever do that, I will commission you. I'll make one of you. Yes. Oh.

Jasper Peach 26:12

A little beard would be so cute. Do you guys enjoy talking about stims? Is that something everyone's comfortable to talk about? I mean, if you don't have any, that's okay too. I guess I have recently started to notice what mine are and what I'm suppressing, and even the ones that I don't suppress, but are kind of hidden there internal because I learned that's what you meant to do.

Jasper Peach 26:37

So I think I messaged you about this cry when I noticed it the first time. I will play a song inside my mouth with my teeth and my teeth are the piano, and there's always a song going all the time, and it's real busy in there.

Jasper Peach 26:54

Yeah, it feels like it's... I don't know, like I'm in tune with something, then I'm not so...

Beau Winden 27:01

I'd be a comforting feeling though as well. I have something similar where just random lines from movies get stuck in my head and I'll be walking along the street and if I feel a bit anxious or something, I'll just have that line come out like, no, I don't want to kill you, what would I do without you?

Beau Winden 27:23

Yeah. You complete me. So that's like one of mine, it's like these vocal stims, which I- Interaction. Yeah, yeah, just the feeling of saying it and people will look at me, I've just gotten over that at this point, I say it under my breath so it's not super loud.

Beau Winden 27:39

That's beautiful. Yeah.

Jasper Peach 27:41

How about you? Is there anything that you sort of experience as a stem?

Kaya Wilson 27:46

Yeah, so I don't think I've actually talked about this with any. We don't have to talk about it now if you don't want to. No, like, no. But like you say that it feels good because I do the exact same thing.

Kaya Wilson 27:59

I'm doing it like now. I'm doing it all day. It just depends on situation. I mean, like how much I feel like I need to hide things. But yeah, playing a tune. I had it's me. Hi. Over and over with my teeth.

Kaya Wilson 28:13

I do. I do lots of stems. It's also new to me to recognize them as that. I started thinking about them as like the tapeworm. So for people who have lots of allergies.

Beau Winden 28:31

Mm.

Kaya Wilson 28:33

there's evidence that if you absorb a tapeworm, your immune system focused on the tapeworm, and the rest of your immune system comes down and your allergies relax. So I feel like it stems from me, the tapeworm, and then the rest of me can sort of function in a more sociable way.

Jasper Peach 28:54

Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah, you've given me everything I need.

Kaya Wilson 28:59

I'll send you a podcast about tech worms.

Jasper Peach 29:01

please I would love to hear it. So we're nearly at the end of our magical time together which is sad but also happy it's all the feelings all the time that's kind of who we are as people. I'd really like to talk about what you would like to put into this is my neurodivergent utopia bucket and both there's some paper and pen next to you and if you could write something down and then read it out to us about if you could make the rules about the world make a little utopia for us all to live in and Kaya you can have a have a think about yours and I'll write it down and put it in the bucket for you if you like and then we'll do some magic on this at the end of the series and make it so.

Jasper Peach 29:59

I love this. Yeah what are your what are your thoughts about what you'd like to put in the bucket?

Kaya Wilson 30:06

I like wanted to come to something a bit cooler, but the only thing I'm upset about all the time is that I just feel like if we put the greatest minds of our generation towards replacing extractor fan technology with something quiet, my life would be drastically improved.

Jasper Peach 30:26

I, yeah, you're blowing my mind again. It's, I never thought about how much that bothers me, but the minute I step out of the show, I'm like, turn that off. That fan is offensive to me. It's messing with me.

Jasper Peach 30:39

I can feel it. I can hear it. It's in my goosebumps. It's just, blah, thank you. I think, yeah, if we could sort that out, we'll just, we'll put it in here and see what we can do. Thank you, Kaya Wilson, Dr.

Jasper Peach 30:51

Kaya Wilson. And my friend, Bo, we didn't, we didn't.

Beau Winden 30:56

We didn't work as well, though.

Jasper Peach 30:58

Oh, I was thinking of the Buffy Man.

Beau Winden 31:02

I've put everything touch -free with sensors because my favorite place in the world is Japan and so many things there are just like sensor based like all doors you go to any public bathroom and everything is like sensor to wash hands soap all that like I'm very sensitive to touching things and if I can do something like with a sensor base it would remove so much anxiety for me

Jasper Peach 31:29

Gross is the world now that the world is disgusting and I don't want to touch anything Yeah, and why are people making me touch things? I don't I don't want that Yeah, just yeah, I was like this before the pandemic and people used to say to me You need to get on the tram and face your fears and now who's correct.

Jasper Peach 31:44

Yes

Beau Winden 31:46

Exactly, exactly. I'm way more comfortable going for an hour -and -a -half walk than like a 12 -minute tram ride because it means having to confront all of these things.

Jasper Peach 31:59

And as a scientist, Dr Kai Wilson, I'm sure you'd back us up that we are correct in our OCD. Thank you for that validation, and thank you both so much for being here. It's so beautiful to be unmasked together.

Jasper Peach 32:13

We'll pop that in the bucket, I'll pop yours in a little bit later, Kai. And we'll mix them all up and make a pudding. Thank you for being unmasked. Oh, Boat Winslow. Boat Winslow. Dr Kai Wilson, thank you so much.

Jasper Peach 32:27

This is unmasked. Thank you. Justin Peets, what a pleasure. Thank you.