Family getaways

Anna-Marie (0:05 - 0:38)

Hello, welcome to SpineCare's 40 Voices for 40 Years podcast series, a podcast about childhood acquired spinal cord injury and dysfunction, produced by 2SER Radio on behalf of SpineCare Foundation. We'll have families join us to swap tips and share their experiences on plenty of topics, so lots of big topics, but also the everyday things. I'm the executive producer for this podcast series, Anna-Marie Reyes, at the Community Radio station 2SER, 107.3 FM.

Dan (0:40 - 1:10)

With the chair, when you're traveling within the city, it can be a little bit difficult. I recall one scenario where we were on the Disneyland train in Hong Kong, and we're putting luggage and putting everything in the carriage of the train, and Hayley was on the platform and we got in to move things, and the doors just closed, and the train went, leaving Hayley on the platform. That wasn't our finest moment of travel with Hayley, but the good story was we just caught the next train back, and she was there, and she was happy. I thought she'd be frightened.

Anna-Marie (1:11 - 2:06)

And you just heard from Dan Slocum there. Dan is a proud dad to two daughters - the youngest Hayley, who acquired her spinal cord injury as an infant, and is now a world-ranked wheelchair tennis player, and university scholar. Dan is also a water treatment manager, and has an adventurous spirit, enjoying many types of travel over the years with his family.

But before that, you'll hear from Ashlee Morton. Ashlee is a mom to two children, as well as being a full-time wheelchair user. She's passionate about exploring the world, and making it easier for others with a disability to do so as well. Through her work as General Manager of Accessible Accommodation, she aims to make the travel sector a more accessible and inclusive place. In her spare time, Ashley plays para-ice hockey for the Melbourne Whalers, and rides a mountain bike.

Ashlee (2:09 - 3:06)

So I'm currently the General Manager at Accessible Accommodation, which is one branch of the Accessible group. We run a website with, I think we're almost at 250 properties across Australia now, that we have qualified to be a certain level of accessible. We know that everybody's disability is different, and what is accessible to one person is not accessible to another. And so we have tried to categorise properties into three different levels of accessibility. An independent wheelchair user, a dependent walker, and a dependent wheelchair user. And we aim to give users all of the information that they might need to be able to decide whether a property is going to be accessible for them.

Anna-Marie (3:06 - 3:17)

You had a childhood of getaways with your parents, and three siblings, and now as a parent of a 10 and 13 year old. Do you want to share with us perhaps a short background about how the SCI happened?

Ashlee (3:18 - 4:47)

So I was in a car accident when I was two years old, and it was just me and mum in the car, and quite hurt in the accident, but she's okay now. So I've never known any different. I don't remember the car accident. Yeah, so I don't remember a time before my injury. I don't remember walking. I have no memories of things being different or easier, and I'm really thankful for that. Usually when you tell somebody that you've got a spinal cord injury, or they say that you're in the wheelchair, their first response is, Oh, I'm so sorry about that. And then, How did it happen? While I was two? And then they're like, Oh, I'm very sorry about that.

That's even worse, and I don't think that it is... I'm really thankful that I don't have a grieving for something. Like, you can't miss what you don't have, so I don't miss walking, and I think that growing up with my disability has meant that I haven't... if I wanted to do something, I just worked out a way to do it. I didn't have that barrier of, It was so much easier to do it when I could walk, that I can't imagine how I could possibly do it with a spinal cord injury. I didn't have that block in my head, and yeah, I think it's a real benefit.

Anna-Marie (4:49 - 5:01)

You had lots of holidays as a child as well, like in the camping, at the beach, and even road trips. Do you want to share it with us, those experiences that you had going away as a kid?

Anna-Marie (5:02 - 5:43)

Yes, certainly. We did a lot of camping, tent camping, caravanning, and as you mentioned, we did a couple of road trips to Queensland. We're in Victoria, so we tried to escape some of the cold weather. My family is a big blended family, and so at any one point in time, there was five kids at home, and so lots of kids, lots of noise. Road trips were interesting. I remember one in particular, me and my brother, who is about two years younger than me, like stuck in the back of a land cruiser, right up the back in the dicky seats. Doing a two-day drive from Melbourne to Queensland was interesting.

Anna-Marie (5:44 - 5:48)

Did you have to prepare for those drives because they're quite far?

Anna-Marie (5:49 - 7:36)

They are. I have no memory of doing any preparation for the trips or for our holidays. I was a really small kid, and so if we encountered stairs or if we encountered an inaccessible area, somebody could pick me up. It was no issue moving me around, and two, we didn't have the internet. There was no way of finding these things. You couldn't just pick up your phone and find the phone Google accessible accommodation and find our website or find any website. I can't even imagine how you would start to try and find an accessible hotel without the internet. How would you do that? You would literally be getting the yellow pages out and calling hotels and asking them. My mind boggles as to how you would possibly do that. 

We are really lucky in this to have the internet and be able to not just websites but communities, Facebook communities, where you can pop a post in a Facebook group. We actually run a Facebook group that has about 8,000 members called the Accessible Group, and people are constantly posting in there. We want to go to this place. Has anybody stayed anywhere before? Can anyone recommend accommodation or posting photos of where they've stayed? This is the hotel we've just stayed at. It was fantastic for this reason. It wasn't so great because of this reason.

Giving people all of this information to empower them to make these decisions and choices for themselves and not have to just make do, not have to carry their kids up three flights of stairs to get to the accommodation because that's just the one they found.

Anna-Marie (7:37 - 7:51)

Sharing the story about those road trips, and I'm assuming because you've shared this as well, that you've been to a lot of the theme parks in the Gold Coast. What were the rides like? 

Ashlee (7:51 - 9:30)

I loved them. As a kid, I had no fear. My mum certainly had fear. I remember vividly having an argument with her. My younger brother was going on the rides. It might have even been my older sister. Either way, one of my siblings was going on a ride and mum was saying, No, you can't. I had a full teenage or pre-teen tantrum and was like, No, I'm going on it. I look back now, and she let me, but I look back now and think, Oh my god, my poor mum. I totally understand what she was terrified of, legs not being strapped in and the chance of breaking them or just whatever it might be.

As a mum now, I look back and go, Oh, so many things could have gone wrong, but they didn't. I survived and I had a great time. I did actually go back, and I don't know if this is branching out too much, but I took my kids there last year and didn't have the greatest experience, to be honest, in terms of their policies surrounding allowing people with disabilities on rides and things. I don't remember any of that as a kid at all. If mum could have used that as an excuse to not let me go on, she would have. If there was someone there saying, no, she can't go on, mum would have been right there going, No, she can't go on. They've said you can't. 

I'd say that they've gotten a bit, I don't know what the word is, more detailed in their policies. Again, back then, I was tiny. If I needed to be carried upstairs or whatever to get on the rides, somebody was there to carry me up.

Anna-Marie (9:31 - 9:35)

What about when you got older? Were you still happy to be carried over?

Ashlee (9:35 - 10:23)

No. As I got older into my young adulthood, no, I certainly wasn't. I don't know that it was a problem with me being that I was concerned about being carried. I wasn't worried about my safety or anything. It was more about putting other people out and having to rely on other people to be able to do things. I am a very independent person, and I don't necessarily like to ask for help, and so I tried very hard to not put myself in situations where I needed help. I didn't ever want to miss out on anything either, so it wasn't so much that I was saying no to things. It was more I was directing myself into activities and things that I knew I could do independently or pretty well independently.

Anna-Marie (10:24 - 10:32)

Knowing what you do now, would you prepare anything differently as a mum, say if one of your kids used a wheelchair or other mobility aid?

Ashlee (10:33 - 11:37)

No, I wouldn't. If one of my children had a disability or used a mobility aid, I would hope that I would do everything pretty well exactly as my parents did. They didn't treat me any different. I didn't grow up thinking I was special or that I didn't grow up feeling sorry for myself, and I think that's mainly due to the fact that they didn't allow me to do those things. I didn't get any special treatment, although many times I might have wanted it. I didn't get special treatment because I was in a wheelchair.

It was... apart from the couple of times where mum was concerned about me going on a ride or my legs getting hurt, whilst she was terrified of those things happening, she didn't actually stop me like once I put my foot down and she realised it was something that I actually wanted. She wouldn't stop me from doing those things, and so no, I wouldn't change anything.

Anna-Marie (11:38 - 11:55)

So, what about when you shared about the offerings available in the disability community and it's enriching the types and methods of activities, I was fascinated that you learned scuba diving and mountain bike riding. What was that like being exposed to the equipment that could help?

Ashlee (11:55 - 13:43)

It was life-changing. My earlier years, I didn't have anything to do with the disability community, I guess, going back to not having the internet, not having the ability to make contact and find those services and things that were out there, and then through my 20s, not really wanting to do anything unless I could do it myself. I wasn't looking for those things. And in my late 20s, I went and had a stay at Sargood in Coleray, and that was something I had to really push myself to do. I had heard about Sargood and I thought it was an amazing facility for people who needed it, and I wasn't one of those people who needed it. I didn't need specialised accommodation.

I had travelled, I'd done Bali and Thailand multiple times without finding disability-specific accommodation, and so whilst I thought it was a brilliant concept for those who were more disabled than I was, yeah, that's great for them, I don't need that level of support. But then I saw that they were running a scuba diving course and I had always wanted to scuba dive and thought that was probably the only way I was ever going to be able to learn. So I went and stayed there and realised how much I was missing out on by not associating with the community.

I wasn't working in the space before that. I really, I didn't know anybody else in a wheelchair. And so after my stay at Sargood, yeah, I realised that, Hey, there's all these sports and outdoor activities and things that I could be involved in, and Yes, whilst I might need a little bit of assistance to do them, do I really want to miss out because I don't want that assistance?

Anna-Marie (13:44 - 13:50)

And what about the accommodation side of things? What are steps that you would recommend a family going through when booking?

Ashlee (13:50 - 15:38)

I think the most important thing when booking accommodation is to think about what your non-negotiable needs are. If your child or if you require a hoist for transfer and it's not possible to pick them up and do it some other way without a hoist, then you're going to need accommodation that can accommodate a hoist. Whether that accommodation has a hoist, they're on site, or whether you're going to bring one, that's a consideration you need to make. So work out what your non-negotiables are and find somewhere that has them whilst also remembering that you might need to be flexible on some of the non-negotiable, on some of the things that are negotiable. 

You're going on a holiday and so you're not going to be able to replicate to the T what supports you have at home and the setup that you have at home. And before having a disability or before your child having a disability, you wouldn't be trying to replicate those. You wouldn't be trying to replicate your household setup when going on a holiday. So working out what those non-negotiables are and finding something that has them. If you haven't done it, if you haven't been on a trip before and you're nervous, start off really small. Go somewhere close to home. Go somewhere that is above and beyond in terms of what your access needs are so that you can be really comfortable. 

My kids, and I mean my kids don't have a disability, but they love going and doing just a city stay. Just spending a night or two, you know, half an hour down the road. It's just that change of scenery. Before we lived at the beach, driving an hour and spending the night at the beach. Just that change of scenery can really change the dynamics of your mindset.

Anna-Marie (15:39 - 15:46)

The pandemic associated lockdowns were tough on many levels, but what were the silver linings for accessible tourism, do you think?

Ashlee (15:46 - 18:37)

The pandemic was not good for a lot of people and for a lot of industries, but for the accessible accommodation industry, so our business in particular grew during the pandemic and most didn't. But putting a pause on normal tourism made accommodation providers stop and think about what markets they weren't tapping into, and one of those markets was the disability community. They had all of these accessible rooms sitting there doing nothing. They'd sell at the end of their inventory if the rest of their rooms were filled up. 

They weren't using targeted marketing to get those rooms filled and whilst we weren't filling their rooms with people holidaying, but there was still participants like NDIS participants that were newly injured. People were still getting injured during the pandemic and so modifications were needing to be done on their homes. People were still requiring respite, but these types of bookings were allowed to happen and it awakened to the fact that there's this whole market of people. One in five Australians have a disability and they weren't utilizing that and so it's given them a newfound appreciation, I think. 

So Queensland, it's the year of the person with a disability or something along those lines and the Australian Tourism Network Association, the Australian tourism body, focusing on three areas. One being indigenous tourism, ecotourism and accessible tourism. And so people are listening, people are realising there are people out there with disabilities who want to travel, who want to travel just as much as the next person and should be able to do so without having to make concessions, without having to carry their children up two flights of stairs to get to their apartment. And they should be able to speak to a provider and ask questions and get the truth, get the right answers.

If somebody calls an accommodation and says, are you accessible? The answer shouldn't be yes or no. It's much more nuanced than that. And the first tip would be, don't ask a place if they're accessible because that means something completely different to everybody and you're going to be disappointed if they say Yes... and you turn up and they're not what accessible means to you, you're going to be disappointed. So ask specific questions.

Anna-Marie (18:38 - 18:49)

So looking back on your childhood, what did your family getaways mean to you? What would you say to a family who's a bit hesitant or nervous about going away?

Ashlee (18:49 - 19:37)

I would say just do it. I would be pretty confident that your child is not going to be as nervous or hesitant to do it as you are. If my parents were hesitant in any way, I have absolutely no memories of that. My memories of us going away are nothing but positive. The big standout memories from my childhood are when we went away, when we were doing things out of the ordinary, when we were forced to communicate with each other because we didn't have our bedrooms to run off to, when we were forced to really connect with each other. 

If travel is something that's important to you, then you shouldn't let that go just because somebody in your family has a disability. The disability does not need to stop the travel in any way. It can definitely still be done.

Anna-Marie (19:41 - 20:11)

And you just heard from Ashlee Morton there. She is a mum to two children and a full-time wheelchair user as general manager at Accessible Accommodation. She aims to make the travel sector a more accessible and inclusive place. Ashlee plays para ice hockey for the Melbourne Whalers. 

Continuing our conversation on family getaways, you'll now hear from Dan Slocum, a parent to a young adult who grew up with spinal cord injury from infancy.

Dan (20:14 - 20:34)

My name is Dan Slocum. Hayley Slocum is my daughter. Hayley has been in a chair since birth. She's also a world-ranked tennis player, playing on the ITF tour. So Hayley now travels the world quite extensively with a wheelchair and two wheelchairs and a tennis kit.

Anna-Marie (20:34 - 20:51)

Some would consider Disneyland a dream destination for many children. And you managed to make this a reality when Hayley was only about five. How did you do it? And what learnings can you impart to other families considering overseas theme park holidays?

Dan (20:51 - 22:13)

I guess one of the most important aspects is planning, understanding accessibility, understanding travel requirements. This trip was to Hong Kong. So it was very hilly in Hong Kong. It's an old city. So there were some challenges, obviously, around getting around the older part of the city, particularly, I think, with a heavy chair. That would have been quite challenging. It was my wife and I and my older daughter. We shared the load and carried Hayley. You need to really look at that and consider the fatigue as well - of yourself as well as the child. Very important factor. 

Luggage, again, it is about understanding the requirements of your airlines, and following that guidance, getting to the airport early and having all that under control. With the chair, when you're traveling within the city, it can be a little bit difficult. I recall one scenario where we're on the Disneyland train in Hong Kong and we're putting luggage and putting everything in the carriage of the train. And Hayley was on the platform and we got in to move things and the doors just closed and the train went, leaving Hayley on the platform. That was our finest moment of travel with Hayley.

But the good story was we just caught the next train back and she was there and she was happy. I thought she'd be frightened.

Anna-Marie (22:14 - 22:17)

How did you go about navigating the airports and flying then?

Dan (22:18 - 23:21)

Flying, again, you need to get there early. You need to read the websites, understand what their luggage requirements are, and just manage your expectations before you travel. It's important because, as they say, the holiday starts at the airport. So you don't want to be rushing around and not being able to get on the plane, etc., or having to pay some additional luggage and the like. But when you do go on the plane, the wheelchair is not considered excess luggage, so you're not charged for that. But I would definitely look at the airline's websites and the like.

When we were in Disneyland, I have a bit of a funny story there as well. On the back of the minor disaster we had was that Hayley always loved to go on rides and saw the Easter Show, the big rides that all the other children went on. Because in Australia we're very strict on height restrictions, but in Hong Kong they're a little bit more liberal. So Hayley got to go on and experience many rides that she wouldn't have normally been able to experience here. But yeah, that was just one aspect that I thought I missed in that previous question.

Anna-Marie (23:22 - 23:31)

And Dan, did you feel like you had to bring extra tools, or do you think that's an idea, to bring extra tools just in case when something comes up?

Dan (23:32 - 23:57)

Yeah, before this podcast I actually had a quick chat to Hayley around that. And what Hayley was saying was that she went to her wheelchair manufacturer, a local in Bankstown, and just asked them for a small repair kit of just some screws and allen keys and things like that that are useful. And she takes those on to her, with her. I didn't do that back when we travelled, but I think that was some sound advice from Hayley for travellers.

Anna-Marie (23:57 - 24:09)

For so many, holiday parks are a family favorite and are a great way to share experiences with other families. What are some of the highlights and insights from your times in this setting?

Dan (24:09 - 25:36)

We used to go with other families, so there was about four or five families, and every year we would go up to the same caravan park. I think another the key factor of that is selecting somewhere that is accessible and also has facilitation for inclusion. Now, I'll give an example of caravan park we went to. They had little cars that the children would pedal, pedal cars, and they'd go around and around the caravan park. Hayley had her cycle, a hand cycle, so Hayley would just paddle around with them and be included. There was also the layout of the caravan park was such that the pool was a central part of where we stayed, and the children. 

It was a hot summer, they'd swim quite regularly, and Hayley felt unequal in that pool. It was all confined and all the children, she could swim very well. Just with that, it was preparation as well. Hayley used to, was a commando crawler, so she would pull herself around and make it aggregate, around the pool, so we would tape her feet up so that she didn't wear her skin out. We had to be very mindful of that because Hayley just wanted to keep going and be with her friends, which was wonderful. Also, watching her in the pool, she had a flotation device as well that we used at the time. 

Yeah, but it was a really great opportunity for the family to get together because it was a large group of children. You know, we all looked after each other and they were fun times.

Anna-Marie (25:37 - 25:53)

And so responding to Hayley's drive and passions on one precious dad-daughter trip, you literally went off the beaten track and up the creek. Please tell us about the fantastic and wholesome adventure. How did you manage it and what did Hayley think of it?

Dan (25:53 - 27:10)

Yeah, we went into the National Park, the Miles Lakes National Park. Hayley absolutely loved it. Hayley's always had a passion for the outdoors and for nature. In many regards, I missed out on that. But this was one opportunity that was facilitated by a gentleman who was working for National Parks and Wildlife developing tracks for people who used wheelchairs. So we went along and tried one of these tracks as part of the work he was doing. It was fabulous. Yeah, Hayley pushed along this track. It was quite a sandy, gravelly track, but they also had harnesses. So I was pretty much the donkey. You know what I mean? I could walk along and tow Hayley along and get on the track. 

It was fabulous. We pitched a tent together. We slept in the tent together and had canoeing as well once we got to the lake as well. What I would suggest there is, if you haven't got the endurance to do that, there are electric vehicles available. There's also a number of national parks that have free hire of accessible wheelchairs. The National Park and Kosciuszko National Park. So if you just go onto their websites, you can have access to those mobility solutions and have those experiences.

Anna-Marie (27:11 - 27:16)

Can you tell us a little bit about the wheelchairs that would be handy or how to store them, where to put them?

Dan (27:17 - 27:54)

Yeah, that's a very good point. We just left the wheelchair outside of our tent in the annex. But I think that there's many different types of chairs now. This is more like a wheelbarrow type of chair. The National Parks has, like I said, improved tracks and trails to be more accessible and supplying these as well. So I would look at blogs. There's also, I believe, an accessible website as well called Have Wheelchair, Will Travel. So that's a good website as well to get on, have a look at and share the experiences of others.

Anna-Marie (27:54 - 28:08)

There's a strong sense that family getaways with a child with spinal cord injury offer so much more than the physical journey and making memories. What important parting words you want to leave with our listeners?

Dan (28:08 - 28:42)

I think it's fantastic in building their resilience and building an understanding of what's possible. They watch and they see, and they learn, and they can see that it's possible for them to travel. And in Hayley's instance now, she travels the world on her own and it's not a problem. She deals with many different situations very successfully and knows how to deal with people. And she learnt that from being able to travel and coming across some of the challenges that her mum and I had. And she's learnt that it's just a fantastic thing to do and I'd recommend it.

Anna-Marie (28:43 - 28:45)

Is there anything else you want to add?

Dan (28:45 - 29:12)

These things can look difficult and the road ahead can look very challenging, but if you just take it one step at a time and you resolve each problem as they come, it's so rewarding and it's definitely something that I'd recommend to everybody to just go out there, have a go. Things won't always go to plan, but just take it as part of the journey that we're working on. And there's people who are going to help you.

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Anna-Marie (29:15 - 29:59)

And that ends this episode on family getaways. You just heard from our guests - Ashlee Morton, who's a mum to two children as well as being a full-time wheelchair user. She's passionate about exploring the world and making it easier for others with a disability to do so as well. Through her work as General Manager at Accessible Accommodation, she aims to make the travel sector a more accessible and inclusive place. In her spare time, Ashley plays para-ice hockey for the Melbourne Whalers and rides a mountain bike. Also, Dan Slocum, who's a proud dad to two daughters, the youngest, Hayley, who acquired her spinal cord injury as an infant and is now a world-ranked wheelchair tennis player.

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