Andrew Flanders

00:15

S1 (Speaker 1)

On Vision Australia Radio, this is Vision Extra with Peter Greco.

S2

Let's go all the way to London and catch up with the product manager for Human Words Braille Products, Andrew Flanders. Andrew, welcome to Australia. Thank you so much for your time.

S3

Oh, it's great being here. Thanks for inviting me.

S2

You know, now you've got some very exciting news with you and where and Microsoft. Tell us about this.

S3

Well, yes, we've got a partnership or collaboration with the design for Surface team. And you've probably heard about it through some announcements through social media and what that means. And a lot of people, I'm sure, will be thinking, well, what does this mean for human wear and the Braille displays? Well, firstly, the Braille displays are for every screen reader. I mean, it's not just purely for the narrator or Microsoft, it's for kind of all screen readers available. But what this actually means is that we have a collaboration with Microsoft to allow us to promote our products on the design for surface program so they have accessory programs. 

And as part of their design for surface tablets, our products, the Braille display. So that's the brilliant 20 and 40 X and Mantis will be kind of past all of its certification requirements to to kind of get into this program that make it a product that they recommend for a Braille tool for their design for surface devices in a microsoft themselves. They're really promoting and empower diversity and inclusivity, and they want to expand their portfolio of products and support. 

So of course they've reached out to us and we've established a great partnership to give them our Braille displays and promote our broader displays, working well with the design for surface devices. And of course narrator has been upgraded as well. So with Windows 11, the update from Windows 11 has increased more Braille support. So. NARRATOR Now on Windows 11 now supports the big X series and Mantis Q 40 displays. 

S2

Can you give us a bit of background as to how this has come about? Because, I mean, humans were very well known in the blindness community, of course, been around for a long, long time, well respected, well-regarded, but Microsoft are just a little bit bigger than you guys. 

S3

Well we've always had a great relationship with a lot of the mainstream organisations, you know, Microsoft, Apple and Google's. You know, we've had a long term relationship with many of these organisations. I don't know if you remember the old Braille note classics. You know, we had established then one of the note takers that were using Windows Key, again, a Microsoft platform. So, you know, we're very much been in contact with Microsoft over the years and we still do to date. 

And this just came about and we, you know, we got kind of not requested, but basically asked if this is something that would be interested in. And of course, we were delighted to, you know, we ourselves, assuming we're on the kind of the accessibility side and from Microsoft on the mainstream side, both together, we really promoting our tools, are promoting our products to visually impaired users out there. And we both have the same kind of vision on that. So it really does make sense from from both organisations.

S2

You make a great point regarding the fact that it's good not just for those who used it, right? Because we're all individuals and we've got our favorites and sometimes for different tasks we use different screen reader. So that's a real boon as well. Is it the fact that it's not just for those that want to use Narrator?

S3

Oh, correct. I mean, there's many screen readers out there, right? So Jaws being one of the most popular ones. NVDA, Apple and our Braille displays will continue to have that seamless experience. But yeah, as of March 2023 this year, that's when Hema announced that its Braille displays were kind of certified. You could call through the Microsoft Design for Service program, which really ensures the consistent experience with those Microsoft surface devices.

S2

Who do you reckon this is going to benefit? I mean, as a browser user myself, Andrew It's kind of cool when, you know, something like this happens because it kind of still gives Braille very much its relevance and its importance, even though there might be some to think, Well, why do you need to Braille display? You've got to screen reader. You can hear everything that's going on. As I say, from a personal point of view, I think it's great because it kind of keeps the Braille flag flying. 

S3

Exactly. I mean, here human, we're advocacy of Braille and we we really do push Braille. It's it's a means of, you know, understanding of your literacy skills. And without that, you do become illiterate. You know, we're very much like, you know, very much strong opinions on that, shall we say. And, you know, we we can show the statistics here in. Then this is just statistics itself show itself that having that Braille is essential for for for people who are blind. Don't get me wrong, there are there are users out there that don't have any Braille skills and continue to be successful, which is great, but that's the minority. But the majority of blind people out there that really rely on Braille. 

It's such an important it's a bit like I would say to someone who's sighted, it's their pen and paper, right? Can you live without your pen and paper? And you do get a lot of people that advocate for for now the mainstream products that have text to speech because it's becoming more powerful each each day. Right. You know, with AI, etcetera. But having speech, just going through your ear, it can be very off-putting. I mean, even just think about having a presentation and you've got that going speech going in your ear and you'll then have to present yourself. And again, not everyone has that kind of capability in that skill to do that. 

So Braille really takes it away. And it's just such an important skill to have. So I can talk all day about the importance of Braille. And there's a lot of resources that are available on our website about the importance of Braille for sure. But yeah, there's a lot of strong points that we would make about why Braille is very important to to a user that is blind.

S2

One of the, I guess, drawbacks of Braille displays has been the price. But I was just thinking when you were talking then I actually got the first Braille Night classic or that was the one of my first round takers back in the early 2000, and I can't remember its exact price. But even if we come to 2023 and the Braille touch plus also with the 32 Braille display, the price has actually gone up much. So of course it is expensive compared to buying a laptop off the shelf. But as far as the increase of price, that's actually it's probably better than inflation. As far as the relative price, if I can put it that way, of Braille displays compared to when they first came out. Yeah.

S3

You're right. In fact, know, I remember back in the days of the old Qui View companion. You know, I've been at Hemingway for just over 20 years now, so I've been there a long time. And yeah, the price point just continues to be a barrier for some. I do, you know. But I think what a lot of people don't understand is that we are in a very small industry. We are a For Profit company. Of course, we're not government funded in any way. We want to push our developers to innovate. And in order to innovate, you of course need investment, right? So it's like anything, it's like the Microsoft or these worlds and the apples, of course they are of course, marketing for a wider audience where we have a smaller audience. 

So we do for us to continue innovating. Of course, price points, you know, they are high but realistic for our kind of industry. And of course the technology that is used is more expensive as well. When we talk about browser cell technology, it's not an LCD screen or anyway, you know, LCD screen is being manufactured in the masses where Braille displays are not. And of course it utilises the the Piazzaj technology, which is very expensive. Interesting, though, there's been a lot of innovation still in this space in terms of Braille technology. 

So we do have new Braille technology that we're seeing day in and day out from startup companies in India, Korea, etcetera. There's been some that have come and gone, but then you have the support aspect as well, Peter, as well that we need to take into consideration. And I'd like to think that Human would do a fantastic job in the supporting of our Braille products. You know, when we look at support, the browser side of things is probably, I'd say a good 60% of our support is spent in in Braille... 40% , then you'd look at more like stream or low vision products. But the majority of our support is on the Braille side of things. So of course that has to be considered as well. When when you make in making a purchase as well.

S2

It's a great point and I've been lucky enough to have had human products for that 20 plus years similar to your time there. And the people in Australia have been wonderful and people like you and Peter Tusk and David Bradburn, who we spoke to over the years, have also been great. Andrew, We're fast running out of time. We could chat for days, but the Monarch, have you got any sort of updated news on that? Wow. Yeah.

09:38

S3

What a fantastic you you've heard so much about. Has your listeners or does your listeners know about the Monarch? First of all, we expected David Bradburn about it a little while ago. Actually, I think we spoke to David before it had its name.

S2 

Oh, that's right. 

S3

Yes. So the Monarch was was announced as the name in January, January the 4th, of course, World Braille Day. So, yes, the Monarch is is a great product. I'm really excited about this product. We've been showcasing this around. The various different countries. So it was in season not long ago and many people had the chances of to get their hands on it and had a demonstration on it. So it's very much working. It's currently at an early stage of kind of beta at this moment in time and we are going to Site City. So anyone that is not straight, that's going to Site City on the made the May the 9th will have a good chance to meet with us and would talk about the monarch and the main intentions of what the monarch will bring. 

But yeah, it's it's very much fresh at this moment in time, Peter, and it's going to revolutionise how many students today, intake graphs and textbooks. And that's that's one of the biggest things. What we want to achieve is we want to make sure that students today overcome all these barriers because there's still in this 21st century, a lot of barriers when it comes to the content of textbooks and tactile graphics. There's not enough time to create them. They're always late and of course they cost a lot of money to produce. But most importantly, it's that time to fingertips. And I've spent many, many years seeing students without these resources because of the time it takes to produce these textbooks and graphics. So we are very much hopeful that this product, the Monarch, will overcome those barriers.

S2

Yeah, love the name. And of course, I'm assuming it's after the Monarch Butterfly or there might be some royalists with them. King Charles is about to be coronated that might like to go with that theme. So it's a it's a name for all. It's a name for all it is.

S3

And in fact, it's funny you should say that. I'm actually wearing a t shirt today with with two monarch butterflies on my t shirt, which is which is strange. But yeah, it's it really is a great product. And I really encourage if people want to know more, please reach out to human wear. Reach out to myself. If you'd like, I can give you my email address. Sure. Okay. Peter. Yes. Yeah. We want to please get in contact with myself if you want to know more information about the monarch or any of our products. In fact, at Andrew Dot Mattress, I'll spell my surname for everyone. That's F for Freddy Alpha, Lima for Apple, T for tango, Alfa Romeo, E for echo S for Sierra at human wear.com.

12:26

S2

All right. We put information about the program up on our Facebook page and we can certainly put your email address up there with it as long as well as the contact for the Australian Office for Human Wear. Andrew, great to catch up. It's a time zones have permitted us to be able to catch up which is tremendous. I appreciate you staying up late for us. We look forward to hearing more, of course. Also worth mentioning that World Global Accessibility Day is coming up later on in May. So all these things kind of come together. So it's a really positive message. Keep up the great work just before you go, cheeky one, You can't give us any new insights into anything that you're working on right this minute?

S3

Well, other than the Monarch. So yeah, a lot of stuff happening on the Monarch, but in terms of software kind of things, we're always looking to update our products. So we were hoping, hopeful to get an update on the branch touch very soon. Okay. And of course our Braille displays. So yeah, speaking of like from the browser side, I think there's loads of things happening for low vision as well as streams and stellar trek as you probably right for now. But on the browser side of things, I can tell you there's some good things happening.

S2

And probably the most and fair question last, is there a release date for the monarch?

S3

So we are looking for possibly field testing around about September of this year. Okay. The product will look likely launch Q end of Q3 of 2024. But in the meantime, we'll be we'll be certainly looking for keen organisations to get involved. So if there's any key organisations, we're also looking for organisations that potentially want to look for funding as well. Obviously, this the monarch itself is going to be a bit more expensive than a, you know, your standard note takers and Braille displays. It will certainly do a lot more. So we are looking and seeking for organisations that would really look to potentially fund the product as well for for users. And of course, we can do some great marketing stuff with them as well. You know, potentially get a name on your box of saying sponsored by so-and-so. So yeah, we're all open to discussions on the monarch, but that will be available on release end of 2024.

S2

And good to catch up. Thanks again for your time.

S3

Thanks, Peter. Thank you for inviting me.

14:39

S2

Andrew is there, the product manager for brow products at Human Wear. That is it for the program. If you've missed some of it, we'd like to hear it again. You can search for an extra on the iTunes store on Spotify or your favorite podcast service.