Dr Scott Hollier

00:15

S1 (Speaker 1)

On Vision Australia Radio,this is Vision Extra with Peter Greco.

S2

It's always great to welcome the program Dr. Scott Hollier, Co-Founder and Director for the Centre for Accessibility. Scott, great to have you back on. 

S3

Thanks so much for having me again, Peter

S2

I was talking to somebody the other day and I said that we were having you and I said we kind of speak to Scott semi-regularly, but Scott's name gets mentioned quite often on the radio station, which is a nice compliment because it's always in a very complimentary way. So even though we don't actually speak to you directly, we hear about your work, which is great.

S3

Oh, that's wonderful to hear the word's getting out there.

S2

Yeah, you're doing a great job And speaking about doing a great job in getting the word out there. You're about to launch your awards for 2023 or you've just launched them, I think, haven't you?

S3

Yeah. So basically, we're in the process of getting our call for nominations, which will be launched on Global Accessibility Awareness Day, which is the 18th. So just about there. And yeah, the awards are really important. Part of the work that we do with the Centre for Accessibility, the awards are designed to ensure that people with disability can recognise and celebrate organisations that are doing good work in this space. 

So if there's a particularly good website or app or a great initiative or a great person that you feel is doing a really good job in this space, then we're really keen to acknowledge and celebrate that. So we have a call for nominations across a variety of categories, including education, corporate, not for profit. And ultimately we want to have those nominations put in there free and just really celebrate organisations doing good work.

S2

Yeah, we've been lucky enough thanks to you to speak to some of the winners and they are genuinely chuffed at the fact that they've been recognised because I guess, you know, people go about their jobs and hope they are doing the right thing, but it's kind of nice when people go out of their way to nominate them and then recognise them as well.

S3

Absolutely. And, you know, I think one of the things that's important to recognise when it does come to accessibility and certainly something that we come across in the work that we do around digital access is that there's a lot of great work being done and organisations that are working hard to make sure that accessibility happens don't always get recognised for that. And they also, from their point of view, don't always get to see the independence that they're doing and supporting for people with disabilities. 

So the awards is a great opportunity to recognise that. And also one of the great flow-ons we've noticed from the awards is that when there is someone that wins, like for example, back in our 2019 awards, ANZ were recognised as being a great, accessible bank. We noticed in the 2021 awards and a few other banks popped up as finalists. One of the great things about the awards is when there is recognition for organisations, be it company government education or for profits, when there is recognition for organisations doing great work, that it does lift the bar and encourage others to do so as well.

S2

Well, the thing with something like that is, Scott, that I can find something inaccessible, but I don't necessarily have the answers to make it accessible. But I guess when there's, you know, apps or websites that are good, you can either point to them or at least the template is there for others to follow.

S3

Absolutely. And that's really what the awards are all about. You know, we started this journey in 2019 when people were saying, look, you know what? What can we do to advocate more in this space? What can we do to ensure that the bar is lifted? And so as part of that journey, we started to think, well, how can we improve the access at a really big Australian level? And so the awards, with the support of our digital agency, Partner Media or Mars, we got together and thought, well, yeah, let's celebrate it and really try to give people the chance to nominate. And quite often the awards have paid nomination processes. So one thing we wanted to do really differently and we've continued to do so is to ensure that nominations are free. So if the community sees there's a really good thing happening, they can just fill out the form and put in that nomination.

S2

Yes, no conflict of interest there, Scott. If if it's free, then no-one can be accused of anything. Absolutely. Media on Mars, that's getting ever closer, isn't it?

S3

Yes. Oh, well, literally, you know, one day... but very much in Australian context for this one.

S2

So what about for people to nominate, as you said, a global accessibility awareness day, May 18th. The huge day - we'll come to that in a second. How can people kind of either find out more or put their nomination in?

S3

Yeah, great question, Peter. So we'll be opening on that day and there'll be plenty of time for people in to nominate. So we'll be leaving nominations open until the end of July, so starting on the 18th of May. So if you'd like to put in a nomination, you can visit accessibility.org/awards. So that's accessibility.org/awards. Or you can just go to our website and follow the awards link. And there'll be an opportunity there with the form to put in the organisation that you would like to nominate. So we'd have a few different categories across education, government, corporate not-for-profit and we also look at websites and apps and then also have our initiative and person of the degrees. 

So yeah, just really encourage people. We'll be having a ceremony in November to announce, recognise the finalists and then announce the winners. So yes, it's always exciting at this time of year as we get the call open and start the journey and then celebrate it in November. 

05:36

S2

Scott, you said you started in 2019, I guess more fortuitously than good planning, you know, the pandemic hit shortly after that. And of course, accessibility and digital information was even more critical literally during that pandemic time or those lockdown times. 

S3

Absolutely. And one of the things we really noticed going into 2020 after our first awards was that a lot of people with disability had their more traditional services shut down and really relied heavily on digital access to be able to continue working, to be able to continue being catching up with their friends and family. And what we found in those early days as we pivoted to go online is that there was a lot of accessibility issues because companies weren't really that well set up from an accessibility standpoint. But I think what's been encouraging now that we're largely on the other side of it, looking back, is that what we've seen is that when people with disability used to be told, Oh, you can't study that course because it's not just can't be done online in COVID, we found a way to do it online and likewise with work. When we were told, look, you just can't work remotely with your requirements and excessive assistive technologies, you know, we did see during COVID that there was a movement there to ensure that we could work with in our environments and assistive technology. 

So something I've drawn a lot of comfort on is that while there are still a lot of accessibility challenges out there, you know, we've seen things like Zoom and teams catch up to be broadly accessible. We've seen websites and apps really take accessibility seriously. And I think COVID, while obviously we don't want a pandemic from a digital access standpoint, I think it has drawn some awareness to the area and we have seen some improvements.

S2

Yeah, maybe it's kind of forced us to look at things and to do things a little bit differently. And that inclusive part of that definitely is a very positive thing.

S3

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure a lot of encouragement just seeing the organisations that are taking accessibility seriously and others starting to catch up based on those examples of best practice.

S2

You talked about launched on Global Accessibility Awareness Day, May 18th. Just looking at their website, something like 1 billion, that's a billion with a B, people would have, you know, in all the in the world might have a disability. And of course, you know, everyone is impacted differently as far as the accessibility go or being excluded guys but that's a big market that any organisation can ill afford to be trying to exclude. 

S3

Absolutely. And you know, when I give workshops and my colleagues do, we often run through a number of great arguments for accessibility. And my favorite is the moral or the social argument. The Internet's a global medium and we live in a global society, but there's lots of reasons to support accessibility. It might be that education and employment arguments are saying earlier, if we support the education process of being accessible, then leads to better employment outcomes. Simply wanting to be able to spend money, you know, goods and services. Absolutely. Companies should want to make sure that goods and services are accessible so that we can use our cash with them. And there's also the legal option, which admittedly is my least favourite option. But sometimes the threat of getting sued can be a motivator. So, you know, it's lots of great reasons to make things accessible.

S2

But in a world or awards like this, it's kind of the carrot rather than the stick, isn't it?

S3

Absolutely. And that's our focus. As I said, the legal option is my least favourite option, and it's really is very much about the carrot, not the stick. So much so that the trophies that we provide, the golden carrot. So that is the Free Access Awards, because it is absolutely about the carrot and not the stick. And we want to celebrate that.

S2

Another thing that I've noticed got, you know, obviously with family and friends that have got site or there are quite a quite able bodied, it's often they can find their websites and apps inaccessible or frustrating. Either they're too cluttered or they're too busy or they're not intuitive enough. So if you can provide an accessible website or app, it's not just people with disabilities that you're helping, but the broader community. So, you know, it's probably more than, you know, the 1 billion people that are helping. Maybe it might be 4 or 5 times that. Realistically, I agree completely.

S3

And we've seen some articles recently around the use of captions on video that more and more people are using captions, not just people who are deaf or hard of hearing, but you know, there's all these research project showing that, you know, especially the younger generations there might be on the train in public transport. It's noisy. Rather than trying to fish out their headphones, they just fire up the video and put captions on. And we see examples of that all the time, that the more we include access, the better it is not just for people with disability but for everyone. So it's a point well made there.

10:18

S2

I think we kind of touched on really the other kind of better thing these days compared to even, you know, four years ago when you started your awards or 12 years ago when Global Accessibility Awareness Day started, is that, you know, there are sort of things in place and you do a lot of teaching in this area. But, you know, like there is a roadmap to be able to do things accessibly. It's not as if you're trying to, you know, reinvent the wheel as they like to say.

S3

Definitely. I mean, we really do know what we need to do to make things accessible. And, you know, we often talk about the W3C Web content accessibility guidelines as a as a great opportunity to create standards. We have procurement standards like the catchy name ASEAN Trail 15492. Just just beautiful off the tongue form. So you know, we and look, that standard is really important in terms of making things accessible with public procurement. So we do have great standards out there. 

We also have great services. I mean, my own organisation provides a free helpdesk to help get people up and running if they're finding it difficult to turn on the accessibility features on their device, or is finding a website challenging and need some alternatives or workarounds to get there. So, you know, there are a lot of great standards. There's a lot of great services, a lot of great organisations doing work out there. And I agree. I think every year there's better options, improved options, and ultimately it is getting better.

S2

Scott, I find a website or an app that I think is accessible, so I nominate it. Is there like a panel that then kind of goes through the nominations and sort of, you know, puts a more fine tooth comb through it?

S3

Well, the way it works is that we have once the nomination goes in, we have an eight member independent judging panel. So whilst my organisation does run the awards, I'm not in any way involved in the judging process. It's really important that we keep that super independent. So we do have an eight member judging panel from a variety of organisations across four states and it's terrific. You know, that really is what brings the integrity to the process. And I go through and I look at the websites and apps based on criteria related to the Weekend Standard. And from there they'll create a shortlist. And from there we'll move into finalists and ultimately the winners. 

So for nominees, you know, they do get notified about the process that's taken place and, you know, anyone can nominate. So that's fantastic. But yeah, we have very strict judging and conflict of interest processes and things like that to ensure that the results are great. So people who do nominate you may not directly receive anything beyond a thank you receipt for putting a nomination, but do know that your nomination will continue through the path, will be independently judged and ultimately celebrated on the day. 

S2

Well, I reckon. if I nominate a website or app that ended up winning, I'd kind of just get a bit of a warm and fuzzy thinking that, well, I'm glad I pointed that out and I'm glad that organisation has been recognised as well. So I think it's kind of a win-win.

S3

Absolutely. And it does make a difference. You know, the organisations that have been celebrated, as we were saying before, has led to, in turn, other organisations taking accessibility seriously. So the advocacy side of things really does work. Thanks to your listeners, Peter, and the great nominations that are received.

S2

Just give us the details again, Scott, and hopefully later on we can catch up with you and or 1 or 2 of the winners to laud their success. 

S3

That would be awesome. So again, if you do want to put in a nomination from the 18th of May onwards WW accessibility.org/awards or you can just go to accessibility.org and click on the awards link or work your way to that award's link and then follow the prompts. Or if you're using a screen reader, follow what's being read out to you as you work your way through. And yeah, thanks so much Peter for today and apologies. I seem to be getting a bit tongue tied in this interview, so thank you for bearing with me.

S2

No, I think you're very excited about it, which is what I do as well. I get excited. My tongue moves faster than my brain. But great to have you with us. Congratulations on all the work that you're doing. And it won't be too long before we speak again.

S3

Really appreciate it, Peter.

14:27

S2

Thank you. And we'll put that information up on our Facebook page as well. There you go. That's Dr. Scott Hollier, co-founder and director for the Centre for Accessibility there Accessibility Awards being launched very, very soon, in fact, on May 18th. That is it for the program. If you've missed some of it, if you'd like to hear it again, you can search for Vision Extra on the iTunes store, on Spotify or your favorite podcast service.