Speaker 1 00:03
With information on the latest developments in assistive technology and initiatives, 2RPH in Sydney brings you Ablequest. Hello, I'm Marnie Roper. Today we air part two of an interview with Peter Ford, founder of Control Bionics. Peter was our very first guest on Ablequest back in 2012. We have watched the remarkable progress he and his team have made with their life-changing technology which helps people with severe disabilities to communicate. This technology works by picking up minute electrical activity in the muscles, allowing the user to have some basic form of communication via a connected computer. It is progressed from the first generation called NeuroSwitch to NeuroNode and now NeuroStrip.
If you missed part one, you'll find it as a podcast on the 2RPH website, 2rph.org.au ... We now pick up part two of the conversation, with Barbara Sullivan.
Speaker 2 01:15
In the first part of this interview, Peter explained how the underlying technology has changed and reduced in size while expanding the capabilities. He talked about moving into the Japanese market and personal robotics, which Peter believes is the next big advance in biomechanics. For example, he is working with OB robotics in the US to integrate NeuroStrip with the OB dining robot. This device, with an extendable arm, gives users control over their eating. He also discussed an advanced alert device they're developing with the NeuroStrip technology, which will allow greater independence for an aging population. Now let's continue the conversation with Peter Ford, founder of Control Bionics and inventor of NeuroStrip.
I guess the core of your business started off assistive technology, as you described, and, as you've mentioned to me, it always will be, but the technology can be applied in so many different ways. I mean, you talk about the NeuroStrip being used for the elderly, but anyone in need of an alert, it would be useful for.
Speaker 3 02:22
Yes, we have some other ideas that we're developing right now and we've already started writing code for different aspects of these ideas. For example, are you referring to domestic violence?
Speaker 2 02:32
Yes, that's very topical.
Speaker 3 02:33
Absolutely. And this always has been, just people didn't talk about it until now, when it's getting the publicity it deserves, because it has to be addressed. And it's a global phenomenon. So right now, we've already started developing algorithms on an iPhone that let a woman who's being threatened or feel she's under stress just touch an icon on the iPhone and two things happen. It calls whoever she's already nominated, and she can hold it up to her aggressor and say, sorry, on the way, helps on the way. And that just simple thing alone is a huge first step in helping potential victims seek the help they need, but also show their aggressor that helps on the way.
It's a small step, but it's a significant one. Now you say, well, the aggressor can take the phone away, we do any, yes they can, but we're also addressing that issue as well. Then we think by using bionics and your electrics, we can, by measuring stress levels and movement in a person who may be a victim or a person who may be a perpetrator, that we can start putting these algorithms together to say there's a highly dangerous incident developing at a certain address, call the police or call help.
Speaker 2 03:43
particularly there's a history of the things happening there. So basically what you've been talking about here is all of us becoming much more comfortable with the notion of this. And you really are a pioneer in having society accept bionics. Where do you think we're going with this in terms of everyday use?
Speaker 3 04:03
Well, there's been some outstanding groundwork already been done way before we came on the scene. That was, for example, cochlear implants. That was massive, and that the Australian professor who developed that had two massive obstacles to get through. The first one was to figure out where he could transmit sound into or convert sound into a neural signal that the brain would comprehend. That was huge. And so he had to go into the cochlear construct inside the skull, and that raised the second obstacle, which is what happens when you break skin, you go inside the skull.
There's so many medical and administrative elements, legal elements, you've got to get through. He got through all of that. And a great credit to Australian Enterprise that this works so well. And I've seen people around the world with cochlear implants. So that was the first step. But more commonly is, we all know somebody who has a pacemaker. We may not realise we know them, but guaranteed, one in six people we run into has probably got a pacemaker somewhere if they're over a certain age. Also, insulin pumps, people who have diabetes or have an insulin pump, they may have that on board and you won't even see it. But we're already accepting the idea we're going to be integrated with technology.
So that whole area of bionics, the groundwork has already been laid. What we're looking at now is having something that's so small and so discreet and so painless that it will help you deal with a whole lot of issues that may occur as you get older, especially as we age, which is a form of disability.
Speaker 2 05:31
And the technology you've spoken about fulfills a particular purpose, cochlea for ears, insulin pump for diabetes and so on, whereas this is just much more for every day. For example, you were talking to me offline before about its application to elite sports. Yes. I know you're a sports aficionado yourself, so it's not surprising that you might look at this. Talk a little bit about what you're thinking there.
Speaker 3 05:59
Okay. Well, again, anybody listening right now, if you can just reach up and scratch your nose, it looks identical to if you're with anybody else and you feel a little silly doing this, but just do it. You're both doing what looks like an identical thing. But in fact, you're firing your muscles in a completely unique way, almost as unique as your own fingerprints. Because from the time we hit the atmosphere when we're born, we start learning neuromuscular controls and, you know, moving, rolling, standing up, all those little things you watch babies do. They're all learning to do the same sorts of things, but they're firing their muscles in a totally unique sequence according to their body or their brain.
Speaker 2 06:34
You would not know that, actually, if you tried to copy somebody, you think you're doing it exactly the same way.
Speaker 3 06:39
But when you start looking at the electromyography signals inside the muscle you'll find, well there's a slight difference now, might only be really small - for example to give you an idea of the range, if you squeeze your fist really tightly really tight and you're really fit you might generate 800 microvolts in the muscles which are helping you do that, you might... hit 700, but that's the range 0 to 800 - and so if you're a professional athlete and you're throwing a football or hitting a tennis ball or rowing any of those things, you may be hitting that level in each muscle - but there will be slight variations in the way all those muscles are working together.
And that variation may be only two three five ten microvolts - but it can be the difference between coming third and winning gold or hitting a touchdown at the right distance and range or or hitting a cricket ball for a six instead of a four. All of those things come into play and with NeuroStrip we now have a device which is small enough and accurate enough the clinical grade data and fast enough it sends out the data straight out to a receiver in less than a hundredth of a second - that's 10 milliseconds - and we think we can get down inside 5 milliseconds. And suddenly you've got a piece of equipment which shows you exactly how the human body is working by the way the brain is firing the muscles, not by the way it looks like from the outside.
Speaker 2 07:55
So the technology can tell you this, it identifies it, is training their ability to, I don't know, make the small changes be parallel to the technology?
Speaker 3 08:05
Absolutely. And as everyone, every athlete, everyone knows, good training comes from repetition. So we go back to Don Bradman throwing a ball against a corrugated iron tank. So the ball came off at any angle and he tried and hit it with a cricket wicket. You know, that's the legendary story. But what he was doing was developing really refined, precise, high speed muscle memory and reflex memory. And you can do that. You can stand in front of a corrugated iron tank till the cows come home.
But we think if we can show you how you're firing in your electrics, and we can display that in a way where you know how you can change that movement, that you can get into your zone, your perfect, most efficient way of firing or sequence of firing muscles to throw a ball or hit a cricket ball or tennis ball or a row in Olympic sports where you're skiing and shooting, biathlon, where you can get your muscle state down to the proper level of relaxation so you can fire and then ski again. There's so many ways we think we can improve movement, including scratching your nose.
Speaker 2 09:05
Peter, one of the things that's happened to you in the last couple of years is that the company has become listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. That's a big move for somebody like you who's devoted 25 years of your life to developing this, because you're suddenly very accountable, I guess. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 09:21
Well, it's fine. We've been accountable since day one. The Food and Drug Administration, the US FDA, we had to get everything clinically accurate, which was good for us and good for them. We do the same with TGA here, with the Therapeutic Goods Administration here in Australia. We're approaching the same thing with ISO in Europe. I'm confident in saying what we're developing now and what we're experimenting with in the lab, the results we're seeing give us great confidence in how we're developing the next steps in the evolution. And these are things that we envisioned back in 2000.
Speaker 2 09:50
Now, NeuroNote is available through NDIS.
Speaker 3
Yes, NDIS owns it.
Speaker 2
And the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Speaker 3 09:57
Yeah, DVA has been interesting here. We've been working for years with ministers with DVA, and we've found that as a lot of ex-diggers, and I did national service, so as an ex-digger, I have a great appreciation for what our ex-men and women have gone through with this. But everybody complains about the help they're getting after they get out of service. It happens in America, too. The problem we have here is the uptake has been very slow for people who deserve a fast response.
So we have, as in America, former service people have a higher incidence of motor neurone disease than civilians, almost by 40% to 60%, depending on the area. And we have ex-service people here in Australia who have developed issues as a result of their service, and it's taking a long time for them to get help. There's more chance of getting it from NDIS than from the DVA. That should change. The DVA needs to be more responsible and taken care of its vets. They spend a lot of money recruiting people. They should spend an equivalent amount taking care of the vets who've been through.
Speaker 2 10:57
So if somebody who might be listening to this program was interested, they could follow up through the NDIS.
Speaker 3 11:00
Oh yeah, of course. They can find our website. We have really good outreach and response. We have 24-7 humans answering your telephone. I check it regularly just to see if it's still working. But we have teams in the US and Australia, so we cover both time zones and they hand over as the time zone switches around. And you always have a skilled technician who will answer the phone and they can refer immediately to a therapist like a speech-language pathologist or one of our engineers for help.
Speaker 2 11:30
And so, when will NeuroSwitch be available in Australia?
Speaker 3 11:33
On NeuroStrip i'm sure it may have been really good with the names... on NeuroStrip,
I'm going to the States next week and I'll pick up my first two units for our trials, already testing some people who are designated testers, we're already making available so to some people think can innovate with the same as the iphone, you know we think there are people who pick this up now that because it's so compact and so will, they can do things with it that we haven't thought of.
Now we're looking at that virtual reality we're looking at computer gaming, it's a billion dollar business where a high proportion of young people playing computer games consistently are getting carpal tunnel syndrome - we believe if you're using a NeuroStrip to control the game, and you'll probably have four so that was, you move your avatar, the game moves, no more keyboard, no more mouse, no more joystick... that removes first of all carpal tunnels, inhibit... also increases your... response rate,your speed in getting your avatar to move the way you want to inside the game.
Speaker 2 12:30
It's a brave new world.
Speaker 3 12:33
See you in the new world.
Speaker 2 12:33
A fearless new world. Peter, it's been fascinating talking to you, and very best wishes and look forward to talking with you again very soon.
Speaker 3 12:42
Look forward to it. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 12:45
I have been speaking with Peter Ford, founder of Control Bionics and inventor of NeuroStrip, an assistive technology that allows people with severe disability to be able to communicate. If you want to know more about this tiny, life-changing device, the website is www.controlbionics.com ... And don't forget, you can listen to all AbleQuest programs as podcasts on our website, 2rph.org.au ...
Speaker 1 13:21
You have just been listening to Ablequest, a programme that looks at developments in assistive technology. From Barbara Sullivan and Marni Roper, thank you for listening and goodbye till our next program.
