Audio
Good Things - Jess Wilson
Looks at a project to better inform refugee and migrant women on AI.
This Radio 2RPH series of 15 minute programs examines developments in assistive technology and initiatives for people living with a wide range of disabilities.
Presented by Barbara Sullivan, Marni Roper and Elaine Wziontek.
In this episode:
Good Things Australia, in partnership with Microsoft and Telstra has launched Digital Sisters A1 for Good Project to support refugee and migrant women how to use AI effectively. Elaine Wziontek spoke to Jess Wilson about the AI project which will help build understanding and use of AI.
Original air date: 04.10.24
Theme 00:03
With information on the latest developments in assistive technology and initiatives, from the studios of 2RPH in Sydney, RPH Australia brings you AbleQuest.
Speaker 1
Hello, I'm Barbara Sullivan. AI is a big part of the technology we use every day, even if we don't really understand it. Teaching computers to learn like humans, much faster and with more data, it is a tool that helps solve problems and make decisions. But for refugee and migrant women, there can be a general lack of awareness about AI, despite its daily use in our tech-driven society. Social change charity Good Things Australia, in partnership with Microsoft and Telstra, has launched Digital Sisters AI for Good project to support refugee and migrant women in building their understanding and use of AI.
The project will provide learning materials through 3 ,500 community organisations throughout Australia and train 40 digital mentors who will reach 600 women. Elaine Wziontek spoke to CEO of Good Things Australia, Jess Wilson, who explained that it is not just about how to use AI effectively and safely. Supporting people to build their AI literacy means being able to critically analyse information that is created by AI. She began the discussion by asking Jess about her organisation's research into AI literacy and digital inclusion.
Speaker 2 01:41
Jess Wilson I think one of the most outstanding stats that we got from the survey in particular was that 60% of our community organisations said no one is asking about AI. Keep in mind these are all community organisations that are part of our network and they already support people to learn about how to use technology.
Speaker 3 02:02
So even though that's the work that they do every day, 60% said no one is asking about AI. So I think that really says a lot. Although it's all over the media and AI is everywhere in my world and often in people who are working in offices, but for people who are not as confident in using technology, AI is not even a conversation they're having. And yet, 71% of our community partners said it's really important for people to understand about AI, to learn about AI and what it does and how it might benefit people's lives. So people who are doing this work know it's important, but it's really important for us to know that actually we have a bit of work to do to make sure that people know about AI in the first place.
So this came out of the digital sisters program. So we're doing a program called Digital Sisters AI for Good and that's in partnership with Telstra and Microsoft and we're really looking at how do we support refugee and migrant women in particular to build their AI literacy skills. Before we decided how we were going to run a program like that, we really needed to understand more about what AI literacy is because you know when we first started looking into it. There's a whole lot of different definitions people have different ideas about how this is because it's also new, and so we really wanted to do some research first with our community partners but also with government with academics with people in who are senior in tech companies to understand what is AI literacy in the first place - and really, what are the important things that people need to learn about if they're going to learn about AI right now.
Speaker 2 03:41
So someone listening to this, they go AI! That might freak them out... could you explain in simple terms, what is AI?
Speaker 3
Actually artificial intelligence has been around for a long time and right back into the 1960s it's just been used in a whole lot of different ways within computing... and so how I would describe it is that AI is about using data and information about people and creating different pathways for helping you to understand what you want to do. An example of that is if you use a streaming service - so if you're using ABC iView it will start recommending things to you based on what you've already watched, so it's learning from you what the shows are that you like and then it's recommending to you the things that you might want to watch next - that's a form of AI.
So that's definitely something that already people might be using, so that's... the number one thing for us is to say to people You know you're probably already using AI, so it's not something to be completely freaked out about, it's something that's already in your devices, already.
Speaker 2 04:47
So teaching computers to learn like humans and being fast with more data?
Speaker 3
That's right. These models are very fast at analysing a whole lot of information quickly and giving you an answer out to that. This is the thing that we're calling... and the reason why in everybody's language at the moment is actually around generative AI. And it's really only since 2022, November 2022, that that's become really accessible to people before people in big companies and tech companies were able to use this kind of generative AI technology, but it wasn't accessible to all of us. And now since chat DPT and Bing on Microsoft or Gemini on Google, all of those different ones are helping us to access these large language models and get them to help us to do what we want to do.
Speaker 2
So with migrant women and refugee women, is part of it then explaining that it's really a tool, not something to be frightened of, and it's going to help solve problems and make decisions, and a big part of the technology that we do use every day?
Speaker 3 05:53
Absolutely. I think it's actually, you know, one of the key things that we found through our research was, What do people want to learn about? They want to know what is AI, right? And also, what kinds of tools will help me do what I want to do? There's no point in just using AI for AI's sake. It's actually, What is the task that you're trying to do? And there might be a tool that can help you do that faster or more accurately or much quicker. That's the kind of tools that we would want people to find out. So for our community partners and the refugee and migrant women they're supporting, translation tools are really, really important because language is a barrier to people being able to understand what's on the internet to start with or be able to apply for a job or to talk about the work that they're doing.
And so those translation tools that, like Google Translate, that can help you translate English into another language or another language into English is a really beneficial tool that can help people to participate better in the community. So if you're going for a job interview, can you write down some questions and... Yeah, that's one of the really good things about it. You could ask, for example, ChatGPT or one of the other tools, this is the job I'm going for. What kinds of questions might they ask me? And how are the suggestions for how I might answer that based on my experience? And so it's really useful tools for doing things like that. But of course, you do need to be really careful about the information that it's spitting out at you.
One of the other key skills that we talked about and kind of came out of our research was around the ability to think critically or to be able to critically analyse information that is coming out of these tools because... it's not always right, and people need to know that very clearly, that the AI tools base the information on the data and the information they have, and they may not always be accurate. So I think that's one of the key things we talked about is how do you know whether what it's giving you is correct and what are the ways of different facts checking that information.
So what you should do is actually read it very carefully first and see if it makes sense to you. And I think trust yourself as a human being. These tools are really helpful as a starting place, but ultimately, particularly if you're going for a job, people want to know about you and who you are as a person, not what the AI is talking about, about you. So I think that's helpful as a tool to get you to practice what kinds of questions they might ask and how you might answer them, but it's really important that it's just a tool. And if you're going for a job, people are interviewing you, not the AI.
Speaker 2 08:34
Otherwise, I could get the AI to do the job.
Speaker 3
Exactly. You need skills and knowledge to effectively and safely use these skills. Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, what we found is there's multiple different literacies that you need to have to be able to use AI and use it well and safely. So we were really hoping that maybe AI might have helped us overcome some of the barriers to digital exclusion. So maybe we'll be able to talk to a tool so you don't need to have to be able to type. And in some instances, that's right. But we really did find that you absolutely have to have some basic digital skills to be able to use AI tools. So you have to be able to use a computer or a phone to be able to access the tools in the first place.
So that's number one. You also need to have data literacy. So this is understanding what kind of information you put into a system, where that information goes, and how the system uses the information that it's got to create an answer. So that kind of understanding of data and data literacy is really, really important. And then there's that piece around media and information literacy. So understanding where information comes from, and being able to critically analyse that information. And in particular, we're seeing this in when AI is being used to create a whole lot of information on social media, for example, or how do you know if the information you're looking at or the picture you're looking at is real, whether it's been created by a person or it's been created by AI.
So that kind of media and information literacy is really, really important too. There's multiple different things that people need to be thinking about when they're using AI. And doing so safely, understanding how AI is being used to increase the number of scans that are going out there, and how we can make sure that people know what that looks like and know how to stay safe in the world of AI. Yeah, because there are scams and that scams are part of the risks. Absolutely. It's one of the big risks of AI. AI is the increase in scam activity and how good it's getting. I think we know that scams are already out there and there are some key things we often talk to people about looking out for, like look out for whether the language is right, look out for whether it looks a bit wrong or that kind of thing.
But the AI is helping those scams to look a lot more legitimate and a lot more real. So, you know, we've seen people are getting scammed with the use of, like using the voice of someone they know to call someone and say, I'm in trouble, can you help me? And so, you know, we need to talk to people differently about those kinds of scams now. So if somebody you know is asking you for help, I'll call you back and call back on their number so that you actually speak to that person rather than act on something that's coming through at the time.
Speaker 2 11:30
Hmm, so really tricky...
Speaker 3
Well it would be, yeah, if somebody's asking you for... especially if they're asking you for 20 dollars and then you say Yes and then ring your next day for 50 or 100?
Speaker 2
Yeah exactly. So it must be very rewarding to support women in this way. But I wanted to ask you just briefly too about, do the the programs... are they being tailored for different communities? Because i imagine different migrant women and refugees want different things.
Speaker 3
Absolutely, and i think that's why we're really thrilled to be working with 20 different community organisations across the country who are working with people in their community in in the language and in the way that suits them best... and so that's the whole model that we have at Good Things in Australia, is to help those community organisations that are already supporting women in the community to do that and to do that well... and better than they may have been able to before. So we're helping those community organisations to feel confident to do that, and that means that they can tailor it to the needs of the women in their community.
So we have people in our broader Digital Sisters program - we had over 55 different languages that women were speaking as part of that - and so there's a real opportunity for people to be taught and supported by bilingual digital mentors that can help them to learn something new in a way and in the space and the language in which they feel comfortable.
Speaker 2
What's the best website to go to? Is it goodthingsaustralia.org ?
Speaker 3
Yeah that's the best place to go to to find out more about what we do. And if you're interested in Digital Sisters AI for Good, then if you search that on our website you'll find the report... and then that's the place where we'll be showing the stories about how people are learning. But we've also got content on there, so we've got some videos and some tip sheets to help people understand the basics about AI - so what is AI, how do we stay safe around AI, how it works, and how do I support myself to understand whether AI is correct or not so? So there's a whole lot.
Speaker 1
And that was Jess Wilson, CEO of Good Things Australia, who was telling us about Digital Sisters and the AI for Good project. You have just been listening to AbleQuest, a program that looks at developments in a system of assistive technology and initiatives. From Elaine Wziontek and Barbara Sullivan, thank you for listening, and goodbye till next program.