Hailey and Tippi's story, puppy placement

00:36

S1

On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the [indistinct] show with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I'm going to be playing two small interviews for you. The first is with Hayley Lindemann, talking about her life with seeing eye dog Tippi and their support of the Pet Barn Foundation appeal for 2023. 

Then I'm going to be joined by Laura King, Vanessa Godfrey and Jacob Brown, talking about the puppy center placement and how we assess puppies to match them with the very best homes from age of eight weeks so that they can have the best puppy caring experience and hopefully go on to be seeing dogs. 

So without further ado, here is my interview with Hayley talking about life with our dog, Tippi. Hi, Haley. Thank you for joining me on the show today.

S2

Hi. Thank you for having me.

S1

Could we start off by introducing yourself? Do you work? What are your hobbies and interests? What's a little bit about Haley?

S2

Yes, I'm Haley Lindemann and I have seeing eye dog Tippi, and she is three years old. Three year old, dumpy, playful puppy. I work people who are blind or have low vision and support them in various roles. And I go to church on Sunday and I just love catching up with friends and going on adventures with Dippy. That's what it's all about. Yeah.

S1

How nice. How long have you and Tippy been working together and is she your first dog?

S2

So we've been working for almost two years. Coming up at the end of this year goes so quick and yeah, she's my second seeing eye dog.

S1

It's kind of crazy to think that that's been almost two years. I remember Tippi when she was like a baby and then in training, it doesn't feel like it's been that long ago.

S2

Very quick. Yeah. Yeah.

S1

So what is a typical day in the life or the day or kind of day in the week of Hailey and Tippi? 

S2

Yeah, it's very varied. Every day is a little bit different because that's the way I roll. I like being very during the week. I like to mix it up a little bit. So sometimes Tippy and I will go out at night and early and have our walks and go do what I need to do for work or Yeah, sometimes it could be there could be days where to be, you know, have the day off during the week or, you know, it's quite varied, which I really like, um, where to be have fun all the time, whether it's on, on or off harness. We have days that we go out and do errands when I'm not working and we can sometimes go for a nice walk along the beach. So yeah, always, always fun, always an adventure.

S1

And I'm sure she's exactly the type of dog match with you that that is keen for anything.

S2

Oh, yeah. Like she loves new, and so do I. We love mixing things up every day. She's like, What are we doing? Where are we going today? And it's always exciting for her, even if it's familiar or unfamiliar. She loves it all the same.

S1

I think when we spoke a while ago, maybe you guys had only just been matched and she was really, really keen on targeting all of the benches and all of the seats.

S2

Yes, she and she just loves finding anything like counters. Only the other day I went to my local cafe to meet up with a friend and I was like, You know, it's funny, Cantonese is a cafe that had its time, closed for a little while, and so when it was closed, she would stop and look at the door and be like, We can't go in here. And I'm like, I know. And so when it was open, I was there the other day and she was walking in with a wagtail like, We're back, we're back. And she was so happy to be there again. 

So yeah, it was... she just she loves it, just loves that finding specifics and counters and chairs and lifts. She loves lifts. And she's like, I'm standing right in the door. So then I know exactly when it opens and I'll be like, No, we have to let other people out first. So it's just so eager to do her work. And yeah, I love that she likes to be the leader.

S1

It's nice to know that she has not lost her zest for life and for work.

S2

Oh, definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. She will certainly make it known like, No, Mum, no, don't like me behind people. I've got to be in front. I need to show you where to go. And I remember once I got a bit lost and for Tippi it was like, Yeah, this is new. Let's go home. No, Tippi, we're actually not going the right way. Let's go back and find a way. And she's like, Oh, really? Okay, this was fun. But she's really eager to to explore as well as eager to find what she means to find. Yeah.

05:20

S1

It feels like that would probably keep your life quite interesting. Keep you on your toes.

S2

Yes, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, this is good.

S1

So we were actually kind of chatting a little bit today about the Petbarn Foundation seeing eye dogs appeal. So you've been kind of a bit involved in sharing your story with that, and I'm sure people can stay tuned. Yeah. Why are you taking part in the campaign?

S2

I find Petbarn really helps in the doggy department because as much as work is really important, it's really important for dogs to have some downtime as well. So that one's really good at providing toys that are tipi proof that don't break and fluff doesn't go everywhere. So and also just providing, you know, even those moments where I need to be to just be a dog and and have a big run around and, you know, using like an extended lead where it's safe. And so but bonds provided that to as well to help enrich her playtime and make it just as fun and. Listen, this is really, really good. It's really important. So, yeah, he loves Petbarn. Loves it.

S1

Yeah. Sounds like as the pocket rocket that she is, she probably needs to. To have some outlets.

S2

Definitely. Yes, that's for sure.

S1

So what does having Tippi mean to you?

S2

So Tippi is really quite a life changer because I'm able to get out sort of more efficiently now, just really get from A to B more efficiently, and it just really balances it out the on side where I don't have to think as much. I can, you know, Tippi can do her part and I can do my part. And it's just that real team effort in getting around. And as well, I find interacting with the community when I need help or when I don't need help. 

All the same, it really helps having to be around to balance all that out to yeah, even just being in those familiar spaces where I can just move about freely and and don't have to worry about, you know, obstacles and the safety aspect when I'm out as well with Tippi alerting me when things move slightly out of line. Oysters She once kept me away from a big open water drain or something. And so that was really helpful in that space of having safety when you're out independently, too.

S1

So how has kind of positively impacted your life?

S2

As well as being a really good companion whilst travelling? She has just given me that confidence to move about on my own. And yeah, just, just really being able to explore further and my surroundings and further afield and it just makes travelling. It's just that word adventure, like it's just a bunch of fun and you know that I can share that space with her and watching her enjoy it as much as I do is really, really good. And yeah, just having her work so effectively and efficiently, it really helps.

S1

And when you've got a reasonably busy life, that kind of variety, you know, probably, probably get a little bit on the tiring side, but having her by your side, you can kind of focus on just the, the being in places I suppose, rather than, you know, using, you know, using the cane or really trying to focus on some of that navigation and keeping your shoulders away from bashing into things.

S2

Yeah, it does help really balance the the fatigue side of things. I remember when I when I used a cane, it was quite, quite tiring mentally. So that really balance of that and even like socially as well when I'm with friends and I'm walking I can just walk, um, beside them and Tippi really helps that social aspects. I can still talk to my friends and socialise and be a part of the community that way too.

09:15

S1

You've been listening to this show on Virgin Australia Radio. That was my interview with Hayley Linden talking about her life with Singer and the Pit Domination Appeal. We're now going to be joined by a few staff Laura King, Vanessa Godfrey and Jacob Brown talking about puppy placement, which is looking at matching the puppies at eight weeks to the best carers to set them up for success as future singer dogs. Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoy this interview. 

And so, thank you for joining me on the show, you guys. There's four of us, including me. Could you please introduce your roles and how they relate to the topic of puppy placement? I'm going to start with Laura. Hi, I'm Laura. I'm the puppy development operations officer here at Vision Australia. Seeing dogs. And the best way to sum up my role is air traffic control for dogs, making sure we know where they are, who they're going to, and getting to their destination, their destination. Being in the context of this is a carer home. Mutual carer home. Yeah, that's right. Jake, could you please introduce yourself? Yeah.

S3

Hi, I'm Jake. I'm Senior Dog care attendant at Vision Australia. Seeing dogs. I primarily work in the puppy center where care for and help raise pups from day one up until about eight weeks of age. I work alongside a team of dedicated staff and volunteers, work together to observe how pups develop through thorough record keeping. We're able to understand and determine how individual pups are progressing in their early puppy development and what environment may suit the PUP in order for them to thrive in the next stage of their journey towards becoming a seeing dog.

S1

So it's really not only play there, there's a note taking that goes on to.

S3

Oh yeah, a lot of note-taking, recording, a lot of learning is done through play and from the outside. It does look that does look like it's all we do, but there is a lot of learning and developing that happens during that time.

S1

Thanks, Jake. And Vanessa, would you like to introduce yourself? 

S4

Yeah. Hi, I'm Vanessa Godfrey, puppy development trainer of the northern regions. So I guess my biggest role in the puppy placement is helping assess the pups when they are in the puppy center. And then once they arrive in their puppy care homes, we are supporting the care as best as possible to help that puppy thrive out and about in the environment. So when we're in the puppy centre, there's some pretty stringent quarantine. So you're not bringing the puppies out to assess them. 

S1

All of that assessment or kind of observations that are done on the puppies are done in the puppy center, is that correct Jake? 

S3

Yeah, that's right. 

S1

So when you as a team are looking at the different puppies and how to kind of place them and their strengths and points of improvement, what are the types of things that you observe or assess in the puppy center that help with placing?

S3

Yeah. So from about four weeks of age, we begin recording notes. When pups are exposed to new environments or situations, we make notes on their ability to navigate obstacles and sort of varying surfaces, their behavior and social skills with their littermates toileting preferences, because puppies, even at an early age, will have a preference on where they go to the toilet, their behavior at mealtimes. So guess their excitement level and interest in their meals. We also take rough notes on where puppies may choose to sleep and if pups are managing to settle independently or need support from littermates or humans.

S1

So when you're in the puppy centre, so you're doing a few different tasks that help you get that information on puppies. And I think we've spoken before a little bit about the puppy confidence course. How does that help you work out a little bit about the puppies and their different, I guess, skills and areas for improvement?

S3

So puppy is introduced to the puppy confidence course at about five weeks of age. And this really gives us an insight into how the puppies are developing their problem solving skills, how they're able to navigate varying sort of surfaces and obstacles, whether they're able to overcome any stress that's related or sort of induced in those sessions as well, and then keep track and record how they're progressing from session to session week to week. The idea behind the confidence course is, as its name suggests, it gives the pups the ability and the chance to build on confidence.

S1

So from about four weeks at the age, the puppies undergo something called "What is a puppy socialisation program"... What are the types of activities or exercises that you do that help the puppies learn what's desired and help you put together a piece of their personality temperament?

S3

Yeah, that's right. At about four weeks of age, the puppies are introduced to our early socialisation program. It's an individualized training program that enables us to help the puppies to begin developing their foundational training skills, as well as learning and teaching desired behaviors such as appropriate introductions to other dogs and humans, appropriate biting, what's appropriate to bite and what's not, as well as basic sort of training skills. So getting used to having a collar on, getting used to being walked on a leash.

S1

So it's not even and it's not kind of like, Oh, well, here you go. We're guiding now. It's just those really basic little tasks from those ages that really help break some of these things down. Is that the kind of general gist?

S3

Yeah, that's right. So in puppy development, puppies will really get set up to learn how to be really nice, well-behaved dogs in preparation for becoming senior dogs. What we do is we want to give them that foundational, those foundational skills. So just becoming confident with a collar and a leash is success for us. So then when the puppy gets passed on to say, Vanessa, Vanessa is able to work with the carer to then teach that puppy how to walk confidently in new environments whilst on leash.

15:05

S1

What are the types of things that you are doing to, I guess, assess those puppies when they're slightly older? 

S4

So we will look at things such as how does the pup observe and react to things like some movement and some sounds? How mouthy a puppy is? Are they quite a bitey? Hard? If in your in your hand kind of biting, are they just kind of holding on quite lightly? How do they like to be handled? You know, are they showing any sensitivity perhaps to their ears being touched or the paws? 

We've got, as part of the enrichment program done by the Puppy Centre staff and the volunteers, we do expose these puppies to these kind of things from an early age so we can try and minimise some of those sensitivities as much as we can. Look and observe to see how the pups overall. Behavior and kind of,  confidence, I guess, would be the right word. How they are, how they on their own, how do they behave when they're in with their littermates? Are they a bit more reserved? Are they kind of a bit more loving life and outgoing? 

Because if we see that somebody's a puppy is a bit more reserved, we might look to give them a more supportive home with an experienced handler or perhaps in a quieter environment, perhaps with our kids, so that we can put them with the carer who's going to provide them with the best support to set them up for success. So when they've gone through some of that socialisation program and they're closer to being placed, they start to develop a bit more of that individual personality. 

S1

What are the kind of things that you can note in the Puppy Centre in particular when they're slightly older? 

S4

That really helps set the puppy up for success in terms of matching. We look at things like how does the PUP react to things like sudden movements or loud noises? We look at how how mouthy a puppy is. Are they using sharp, bitey hard bites when they're playing around or are they a bit more soft? How does the PUP like to be handled? Are they embracing being held and being touched? Do they perhaps have a little bit of sensitivity around their ears or their feet? 

As part of the socialisation program, the Puppy Center team and volunteers do a lot of great work to expose the pups to these kind of things from an early age. So it helps to minimise any of that sensitivity, but it's something that we'll continually work on. So we like to see how they react to those things. For the pups, personality in general, are they a bit more reserved? Are they a bit more outgoing and loving life and want to tackle everything with great gusto? You know, if if they're more reserved, perhaps we would look to support them with an experienced carer or perhaps a carer with a more slower paced lifestyle rather than putting them into a busy, fast paced environment that could be quite stressful for them. 

So we don't finalise which puppy is going to be matched with a carer almost to the day where the carer picks up their puppy. So we've got as much opportunity as possible to observe them for as long as possible to make those changes if we need to. 

S1

It's quite interesting to think how how early you do start to notice some of those things and like you said, everything would probably change almost day to day because they're so, so small and so young when it comes to kind of working out some of those things, especially, say, first time carers, how do you get the information that will help with that matching on their side or, you know, say, how is that puppy carer interview during the application process used to help line up the carer and that puppy? 

S4

So what we're looking at when we're interviewing first-time carers is trying to get as much information as possible about that person's lifestyle, what they do day to day, their workplace, if they are at work, if they have other family members, what what do they do at home? Is it a busy household? Is it a quiet household? Are there other pets that are in the house too, that could be influencing the senior dog puppy's life in that home? What their day to day activities are quite important as well. Are they a 9 to 5 job in the city that obviously it's going to be a lot for a puppy to to handle? Or are they quite a quiet lifestyle where they might only do a trip out to local shops or in a quiet environment? 

Not too much traffic around all that sort of stuff is taken into consideration when we interview them because that helps us with where or which puppy might be a best option or best fit for that home. And all of that information that is taken from that interview - it really can kind of help align, I guess, the timing or most of that puppy to like, if the litter isn't kind of appropriate, is that something that you would shuffle around to really get the best from each puppy? 

Yeah, absolutely. We want to try and set up any puppy place out in a home for success. So if we can do that by either holding a care off to a particular litter or if there's a quieter puppy that might suit a better household, then we will try and make that fit as best as possible because then it helps the confidence of that puppy in the future. So how can that puppy really match and kind of complement the carer and their lifestyle? Yeah. 

So I guess an example might be, you know, if you've got quite an outgoing, confident puppy who really enjoys being busy without having an active lifestyle, it might become a bit cheeky in the home, might be a little bit more hard to manage, but in the right home where it's mentally stimulated, where it might be going to an office or it might be out and about in the city or doing some more things to stimulate its brain. You have an amazing little pup who thrives on that lifestyle. 

S1

So when it comes to that matching, why is it so important to try and place these puppies on temperament? 

S4

It's so important for these pups because that could be make or break really for them in the future. The... where we place the pups to give it the best support possible to become a seeing eye dog and a well socialised, well rounded puppy. It's a bit of that nature versus nurture. We do our best to have the right genetics and get the great start that the puppy center gives the puppies in that first 8 weeks. 

But the next step in going into that puppy care home at 8 weeks is making sure that we can set that puppy up in the right home, in the right environment to get the best out of that part. I guess it's also worth noting that to take the puppies from a very controlled, very routine based environment that we have in puppy center, the pups are nice and confident in that because that's all they've known. So the second that we take them out those puppy centre doors and work them into a home with a carer, things can completely change. So we always say take it with a grain of salt. 

We do our absolute best we can to pop the pup into the home that's going to best set it up for success because we want to get as many graduated dogs through to our clients as we can. But things change. Puppies change. 

S1

It's kind of interesting when we talk a little bit about it too. Is it? It's a bit part of almost a welfare strategy to where you're setting that puppy up to be kind of as confident as it possibly can. Is that fair to say? 

S4

Absolutely. We're quite lucky that we've got such a great pool of volunteers to call on that we're able to offer pre started puppy caring, which is where a carer may not be suitable to have an eight week old puppy due to their lifestyle. Like you said, working in the city on the train 9 to 5. It's a lot to ask for a baby puppy. So what we can do is ask one of our experienced carers to come in and take that puppy for the first eight weeks to help get them set up to join that kind of a lifestyle. 

So that's another factor that we take into consideration when matching our puppies is if this puppy is going to go to a starter carer because it's going into an office environment, perhaps it's going to go work at a school, Is that puppy going to be the right match as best as we can for that person for their future? So a lot of planning and strategic thinking comes into play when we we doing this process. And it's a really great example of how we across multiple teams here at Seeing Eye Dogs, we do the absolute best we can to get the most amount of dogs we can to our clients who are blind or have low vision. 

S1

Have you noticed since you started really ramping up some of the ways that you do the puppy socialisation program? And don't think, I don't mean ramping up as in Make it harder, but making it quite scientific and quite orderly?

S4

With all of the notes that you do find that some of these things really carry through to the puppies as they grow and whether some of those observations do send kind of hold true as the puppies kind of reach more adulthood. I actually have seen a change in the pups over time as we've changed the socialisation program and we've done more with our puppies to help support them leaving the puppy center and what we've observed back in the Puppy Centre as well. 

Carers are also, have been saying to me that they feel that when the puppies are coming home to them, they feel that they're more well equipped to deal with the puppies. Either the pups seem to be coming out more confident and more well rounded or the carers are just better set up in knowing a bit more about the puppy itself. Also watching that pup grow, there might be things that we might have seen early on that we were wanting to help support the pup with. 

So we've been able to work through those behaviours quite early on so that we can see the best of that puppy. 

S1

It's interesting, yeah, what the feedback is from carers and how tangible it really feels and whether you guys feel like it makes a difference when they come out to a care home...

S4

It's interesting to think about how quickly we can set them up for success, even just from like that full week that they're being set up to be the best thing that they can hopefully be. 

S1

So just to kind of finish off, is there anything else that I've missed that you'd like to share or any other say factors that can help determine where to put each puppy? 

S3

Probably similar to how Vanessa mentioned earlier that, you know, if a letter is not right, the right fit for a carer that we may hold them back. We've got other factors such as update caseloads. We want to make sure that our pets can have enough time to service their caseload, make sure everybody gets the support and attention and needs met that we can support people to, to raise these puppies. So if A has a very high caseload and another carer, another sorry, has a lower caseload but has a carer ready, we might allocate it to that lower caseload first. 

We're also in a great position at the moment where we're expanding our puppy programs into the... Northern Sydney and central coast of New South Wales. So we really want to get that program up and running as soon as we can get more dogs up on the ground, get a visual presence up there. So if we've got a New South Wales carer who comes on board and they're ready quite quickly, we may look to place a puppy up there to get those numbers up as quickly as we can. 

It also depends if people need pre started puppies like we talked about because those people are going to be waiting another 2 or 3 months for that puppy to be ready. We might have to bring that pre starter carer forward first to get them a puppy. So quite a few factors are into play. 

S1

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Laura, Jake and Vanessa for joining me on the show and talking about about puppies. I think the work that you guys do is amazing and I've definitely noticed a bit of a change in the last few puppies that I've had. So yeah, I think on behalf of all of the carers, thank you for helping set up ups up for success. Thanks for having us.

27:16

S3/4

Thanks, Harriet.

S1 

You've been listening to this show on Vision Australia Rdio. Hope you enjoyed my interviews with Hayley and Tippi, as well as with staff Vanessa, Laura, and Jacob. If you'd like to find out more about seeing the work we do or how you can help, head to our website at Vision Australia-dot-org. 

If you'd like to find out about the [indistinct] Petbarn appeal, head to a Petbarn or City Farm store in the month of July or head to the website at [indistinct] for the dogs appeal. Thank you for listening and don't forget to tune in sometime next week for another episode of the radio show.