00:35 S1
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I'm joined by Seeing Eye Dogs handler Jo Marsden with seeing eye dog Phil. Jo is going to talk with us about her story, her partnership with Phil and the jet setting, life in the dog industry, and her trip with Phil to Japan. This partnership might be quite new, but they've really hit the ground and the sky running with lots of adventures, so let's hear about them now. Hi, Jo, thank you for joining me on the show today.
01:11 S2
Hi, Harriet. How are you?
01:13 S1
Good. How are you?
01:14 S2
I'm doing well. A bit of sunshine here in Sydney, so I'm pretty happy today.
01:19 S1
It really does kind of lift the spirits, especially after a pretty long, cold winter.
01:24 S2
100%. And, yeah, we're looking forward to lovely early spring here.
01:30 S1
Could you please introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your hobbies and interests work, family or anything you'd like?
01:36 S2
OK. So I'm... Jo Marsden. I'm 55 and I live in Sydney's northern beaches with my seeing eye dog Phil... and I have another little pet dog, Daisy, who's a Shih Tzu, who's nearly 17. I've worked primarily in the animal care industry most of my life, actually since I was 14, which is a long time, various capacities. I had a little stint at the Guide Dog Breeding and Training Centre in Victoria. I vet nursed, and after a brief corporate career that I studied very hard for, I decided I wanted to be a pet groomer, and I've done so since 2003. I still work, pet grooming... sort of. More part-time these days. We have our puppy and I have very limited central vision, but I know my job very well.
So I just adapted my salon. I work by myself at my own pace and with really good lighting and still love it. Sadly, that career is coming to an end. So I have another business where I sell really high-end Japanese dog grooming scissors to dog groomers, and I also run events in the pet grooming industry. And I'm the national grooming director for the Pet Industry Association of Australia, so I keep pretty busy.
03:06 S1
Wow.
03:07 S2
I enjoy working and, you know, being... having our puppy, you know, starting to get very limited in the travel side of what I do. And it was starting to become very nerve-wracking going out and about and going through the airports. And so Phil joined me July last year. So we're just over a year together, and Phil's made my life so much easier. Prior to having Phil, I was using a cane. I didn't really have a lot of confidence using the cane and with myself. I'd had a lot of falls and I went out a few times in crowds and I found people weren't really paying much attention. And, you know, in one incident, I had a woman pushing a wheelchair into the back of my legs because in the crowd she couldn't see that I had a cane. And that's why I was going slow.
So, you know, I was starting to get very reluctant to leave my home. And working from home. I have a my salon is down the back of my home. I was becoming a lot more isolated and, you know, reluctant to go out unless I was with somebody definitely not wanting to go through crowds and things like airports. So I did find a really good trick is to jump in behind someone with a pram or some policemen, because everyone just clears out of their way. So you sort of find techniques that help the staff at airports were always really, really good.
Going out and about, even shopping was starting to become difficult for me on a confidence level. And certainly I have full night blindness, so going out at night was just horrific. Even using the cane, I would still have accidents. I lost a lot of confidence after I had quite a few falls over gutters and down stairs. I had a drop in my vision around ten years ago. It was quite a big drop and then I lost my depth perception, so that became quite challenging. And then I also developed Charles Bonnet Syndrome, which is where you get visual hallucinations. So that's been interesting.
Initially I thought I was being haunted because I was seeing a little old lady wearing a quilted dressing gown, carrying a cup of tea, and I was out shopping with a friend one day, and she, this old lady cut me off and I sort of went, Whoa! Like this. And my friend said that I looked like I was taking drugs. And I've since learned that some of the accidents I had were because the Charles Bonnet syndrome was telling me I was at the bottom of stairs when I wasn't. It was making ramps look like gutters, so I would step into thin air and face-plant out in the street. And I'd even had an incident where people just stepped over me. I think they thought I was drunk or on drugs.
05:51 S1
How scary. And it's not something that people talk about too much either. It's not particularly common.
05:55 S2
It's quite frightening and honestly, thought I was being haunted for a few years before I found out. So it was only after the shopping centre incident that I went to the eye hospital and they said, oh, you've got Charles Bonnet syndrome. So that was really the hardest part of my visual loss and what was contributing to me not having this confidence, you know, because I was my brain was obviously creating and inventing things in its effort to help as a sort of almost like a form of muscle memory.
And I've now worked out that it because my remaining vision will catch something in the distance, or it will see a few stairs, or it'll see a big pot plant in the shopping centre and it'll say, here's a warning and give me an old lady. So the other hallucination I've had is a pole, like a telegraph pole coming at me from the side very fast, and then whizzing past me, so that one makes me jump. I haven't had it, I honestly don't believe I've had more than one instance of it since I had Phil come into my life, so that's a huge plus. That's a huge bonus.
I did notice that once I relaxed and had faith in Phil, which didn't take very long because of my relationship working with dogs, that my vision did change a little bit. I'd obviously adapted. My brain had adapted to seeing how I see, and now it's adapted in different ways. It's kind of relaxed my brain, I guess you could say I'm not struggling as much mentally to go out and navigate the world. So Phil joined me July last year, I believe. Just graduated. He was around 18 months. We bonded very quickly because I have such an understanding of dogs and have worked with them for so long. I think it just made the process a lot faster. I got an initial enormous wave of relief, you know.
And then once I started to push the boundaries with him, I realised how much easier my life was. So we started to get out and about, and we've been on, I think, 26 flights a year. I can't remember, is it a year? Yeah, he's two and a half, so I had him for just over a year.
08:02 S1
Was there anything particular that made you decide to apply for a seeing eye dog, especially kind of, when you did...
08:08 S2
I guess having worked with guide dogs, I knew what they were capable of, and I knew that in my heart that I could trust a dog. I'd actually walked domestic pets, and even my own little Shih Tzu. They would help me to see. Like I felt a lot more confident, possibly a bit of emotionally as well. Like... almost like an emotional support. Like I felt better going out with my dog than on my own, even with my cane. And you can sort of tell when there's a rise or a change in a gradient just from your dog, and they're not going to let you typically walk into something.
So I always had that trust of dogs and, you know, even I'd even had a go at walking with my eyes covered with a guide dog. And as a more sighted person at that time, it was quite disorientating. But yeah, I learned with Phil, just to almost close my eyes and just relax and go with it and just just trust him. So the lack of confidence in myself with the cane and then the knowledge that I knew that I could trust a dog were the the main things that made me push for a seeing eye dog.
09:12 S1
Yeah. And it sounds really like you guys, yeah, you very much did bond straight away too. Very quick kind of understanding of dogs. But he must be one of the easier coats to manage, of the dogs that you spend time with.
09:25 S2
Well, yes, he sheds a lot, and being a professional groomer, I. I've done everything in my... book to to minimise that. So I should write it actually up my tips. But... we definitely still have to vacuum a lot. And being a yellow lab, or he's got a bit of golden as well. So he's... and I've got a blue couch. So it shows up. He does get to sit on the couch and on my bed because my other little dog does, and I couldn't say it was okay for her and not for him. So. Because when he's off duty, he's a dog, you know? So, yeah, we just vacuum more.
10:05 S1
And it's worth it. You know, all of the things that they bring to us, especially a seeing eye dogs, it's definitely worth the vacuum.
10:10 S2
I couldn't care less about dog hair. If I get to live my life and have my freedom, you know, it's just nothing, really. I there's nothing that I could complain about. It's the best thing in the world to have my freedom back. I went overseas to Japan with my friend in March and April, and I took Phil and I kept saying, I'm so lucky I get to travel with my dog. And she said, but you're blind. And I said, But I'm so lucky. You know, I actually could not have done that without Phil, even with a friend - because people forget that you're blind. If you have a little bit of vision, they just forget and they leave me to wander off.
10:51 S1
Yeah, even your friends kind of, aren't necessarily as attuned to your needs.
10:55 S2
Not not, but feels very tuned in. So he was amazing in wherever we've been. We've been to Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide, Melbourne multiple times, you know, and and Japan, you know we went to Cairns first to shorten the flight. So we had a night over in Cairns and then it was only 7.5 hours to Japan, and he just slept the whole way. The flight attendants treat him like a rock star. You know, they we typically always fly with Virgin, who I find are just so accommodating. They're wonderful.
And you know, in Japan we when we went to Japan, I had a lot of documents. So the Australian quarantine service were fantastic, helping me because I didn't necessarily understand everything. Yeah, they were great support. And then the Japanese end as well were fantastic. And we had to apply for a Japanese guide dog pass as well.
11:56 S1
For accessing... like restaurants and that sort of...
11:59 S2
Yeah. And... because they'd had the disabled Olympics on in Japan a few years ago, there was a lot of... like lifts and and tactiles everywhere, you know? So it was it wasn't hard to get around. It really wasn't hard. And, you know, people were just so polite. Although they're not used to such a big dog. There are larger breeds there, but they tend to be out in the country more, and in the cities there's a lot of small dogs being pushed around in prams and it's very cute.
It's a whole thing, a lifestyle there where people are having dogs, not children. So they were looking at Phil in absolute awe, and I can't remember the phrase that they used, but they kept calling him Superb Yellow Dragon - because my business partner lives in Japan with his wife and they translated it for us when we were out. So yeah, he's... quite a big dog.
12:59 S1
Yeah, he's definitely one of our biggest seeing eye dogs. How was he... like, fitting on the plane?
13:05 S2
Oh, they always put us in very free. So that's the extra legroom seat. He gets the window seat, and, you know, you tether him to the seat, and I take his little pet futon and I actually slip a, I slip a puppy pad inside underneath, because I have to have a pad underneath. So in case they have an accident, the pads alone, they slip around. So we actually made his futon like a little... it clips onto my suitcase, so it was really easy to take it around and lay it down. And you know, the staff are really helpful as well. They'll often go and pop the bed down before you get there and, you know, just just help. Yeah. Although I'm pretty independent, I like to do everything myself.
13:51 S1
But sometimes if they're there to help, I guess it's, you know, it's not... accepting help as problematic. It's just... if you can do it, why not?
14:00 S2
Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty busy people. So, I mean, it's the whole point, isn't it? Retaining our independence. So. And yeah, in Japan we didn't have any refusals... other than in hindsight, I realised, I recognised now why. There was one restaurant. It was, I realised, a sushi train. So they were actually technically a restaurant kitchen. But because they didn't speak English, we weren't understanding why they were refusing us. So in hindsight, and I yeah, I wondered about this... so technically a sushi train where they're making the food fresh in front of you is an open kitchen restaurant. So because it's a food prep area.
It never occurred to me before in Japan, we went to a lot of temples, we did a lot of walking and we just at our own pace. And he didn't bat an eyelid. He went all day... and we went out on a steamboat ride on a lake. We went on bullet trains. We went to a lot of the sort of insta-famous photo spots, like the bamboo forest, and we climbed small mountains, I guess, up winding paths. And, you know, we went to Disneyland. We're lucky with the day we went, there was hardly anyone there. The next day they had thousands of people queuing up at the same time we entered and we literally just walked in and had hardly any crowd there.
And we went on, you know, the staff were really great. If we went on some of the rides that wouldn't disturb feels... so like, the highlight for me was the It's a Small World ride, the kiddie ride where you go through the boat with all the puppets singing and oh yeah, all the different cultures. That was really cool. And Phil just laid down at my feet. We met Mickey Mouse, who didn't realise I had a little bit of vision and just kept hugging me and grabbing my hands and putting them all over his face and his little puppet face, you know? So that was... fun. I just went with it. He hugged Phil and yeah, it didn't get any... I got a photo of it, but I didn't get any video. Donald Duck loved Phil.
16:08 S1
Mm.
16:10 S2
Yeah, he's, Phil just took everything in his stride. You know, he... there was nothing that put him off. We even went on a, we went to see all the cherry blossoms. We went to, on a canal boat ride under the cherry blossoms, which I've got a video of. And then for work, we went to the factory where my sister Brandon made.... and then we went to four day Interpet, which is one of the largest pet trade shows in the world. In four days. We couldn't cover it all. It's... wow. And there was one day where it was open to the public in the sort of dog section. We watched a grooming competition there. All the public were coming in and shopping for their dogs with with their prams.
And on this day, Phil did get yelled at by a lot of the small dogs, who obviously weren't used to him, and he didn't seem to understand what they were saying. And it occurred to me, are they barking in Japanese or, you know, do dogs...?
17:20 S1
I have heard that the barks are different like that. Not only do they sound different, but so maybe to a dog it is like a different... yeah.
17:28 S2
I felt like he didn't understand, you know, because here he seems to understand if a little dog is saying Back off. But yeah, over there he didn't. He looked really confused. He looked at me confused and concerned.
17:38 S1
So what's happening? Why are they being mean to me?
17:43 S2
So yeah, I'm pretty sure they they bark in their native language, you know. So yeah, he got treated like a celebrity over there as well. So yeah, he's been around, because we run grooming events. We ran seven grooming. I ran seven grooming competitions in 18 months. So Phil was at 4 or 5 of those. Wow. And the pet show in several states. And so he was when I wasn't needing him because I was sitting in the ring, he went and modelled on the referee stand where they have this amazing shedding tool that doesn't cut their coat, and it's just like a tiny little comb. And it's very, very gentle and it doesn't scrape their skin. And they kindly donated one to us for his modelling fee, so...
18:33 S1
Oh, beautiful.
18:34 S2
Yeah, that's made my life easier. It's a fantastic tool for ladies and goldens. So he's so adaptable, like nothing has faced him. The only things that ever fazed him: he won't go on escalators, and I don't mind at all, I'll just find stairs or a or a lift. Sometimes it means I have to walk a little bit further, but I need the exercise so Phil can get quite a pace up with me. I like to walk fast and so I can do that again. Now some of my friends tell me to slow down now, which is great because I was kind of walking along like a marionette before and stumbling around, and now I can just go... you know...
19:15 S1
You can stride out the way that you kind of want.
19:18 S2
So good, so good. He's obviously a dog. He was a little bit noise-phobic, loud noises. But I desensitised him within a week because I do that for a job. So we've all the little pups that come in, I have to get them used to the grooming noises and the dryer, ran my dryer over him a few times and reassured him. And he's completely relaxed now around loud noises. So yeah, he's not worried about them at all. He gets a lot of baths, so he has to be used to the dryer. So yeah, he's a good lad.
19:51 S1
So... about your amazing travels, is there anything in particular that you would like to... I guess, that you would share with other handlers about the experience?
20:03 S2
Yeah, I would say... research a lot. Plan well in advance. There's a lot of information on the Australian government websites. There's a lot of help and support. And there's also a lovely website called TravelPaws, where the creator has travelled herself to Japan, and she's also vision impaired. So there's a lot of information there. And then these dog handlers, Facebook groups. So a lot of people talk about their travels there. But just planning and preparation is key. I organised for the most similar type of food that, to Phil's diet, to be delivered to our hotel in advance. I didn't realise I could have actually taken his food with me. But I thought it might have been against the quarantine rules, so...
20:53 S1
Oh, right. Yeah. Of course.
20:55 S2
Yeah. So there's lots of little things like that. And then understanding the culture of where you're going and how agreeable they are to dogs... doing your research on how accepted seeing eye dogs are in their country. Depends. Very very welcoming. Being prepared with their vet visits. Japan is rabies-free, so we can sort of come and go from there. You let them know that you're coming. And in Japan, the inspectors actually sent this dear lady out to meet us at the plane. It's Tokyo airport is huge. So it was quite a walk. And she helped us to a little office where I had to get my paperwork checked and stamped.
She helped us find our luggage and helped us outside to find a taxi, which actually took us to the wrong hotel, which was down the street by mistake. And then when we went in there, the concierge actually grabbed my suitcase and walked us two blocks down the street to the right hotel. So that's how helpful everybody is so helpful in Japan. They have really good manners and it's their way of life pretty much that they're selfless and they will help you if you need help. So that was lovely.
I'm hoping to go to England next year and we're going to New Zealand in October, so I'm just navigating the paperwork for New Zealand at the moment. There are little things you have to do, like having a dog health checked in a particular time frame prior to going, having really good records of their vaccinations and their flea and tick treatments. And I believe New Zealand is paralysis tick free. And I think, you know, there's a few other diseases now that we have here. Unfortunately, they don't have them there. So they're fairly strict, New Zealand. So I'll just have to be very clear of where we've been in Australia. And he'll be treated with a topical product, you know, to kill ticks and fleas as well as his internal one.
22:58 S1
So how exciting.
23:01 S2
Yeah. Can't wait. I mean, that's not a long flight, like he handled Perth fairly well. He literally just sleeps on the plane anyway, so he doesn't bat an eyelid. He doesn't stir. We've never had a toileting incident apart from one airport where... now where was I? Adelaide. I could not for the life of me find the dog toilet. And they kept saying it was there and where it was, but I couldn't see it. And it actually turned out... and I did let the airport know there was no... sign on the walkway. It was tucked around in a little corner and... sort of in the vicinity of where people were showing me, but not exactly where it said. And so so we were pacing up and down trying to find it.
And then Phil decided that he couldn't wait anymore. So he just squatted and did a poop and, um, you know, a bit embarrassed for both of us, but... there was a cleaner nearby, and I had my bag ready, and... kind of...
24:06 S1
Sounds like it was a little bit on them for not really helping you.
24:10 S2
For vision impaired person, it's not that easy to see, you know? So I was looking up on the walls and above me for signs and there were none. And I think it must have been fairly new. Things happen. I took him to toilet so many times that morning and he just wasn't ready to go. So, you know, and I know his routine very well and, but I guess the travelling and different time zones can, it can alter that. And that's another thing with different cultures. You know, in Japan they're very, very clean. So you have to clean up after yourself. And if they toilet outside you carry water with you and you have to wash the path down or. Oh, really? Garden bed. Yeah. You have to throw some water on it. Yeah. So I always carry a bottle of water and, Um, wet wipes. I carry a travel drink bottle for him anyway, you know, and I carry wet wipes and extra bags.
So, yeah, we haven't had too many, too many issues. I lighten his food intake when we travel quite a bit, so that's not too much of a problem. But occasionally, when we're not in familiar territory, he's reluctant to go. So, and that's, I gather, because we spend quite a lot of time at home. So with me working here. So he's quite used to where he goes, you know, potentially he's just... dogs are creatures of habit.
25:44 S1
Is there anything else, just to finish off, that you would like to share with the listeners about your life with Phil?
25:50 S2
General public are mostly fabulous, but a lot of the time they're being kind, I guess. But they talk to their children as if you don't exist, and it'll be like...
26:00 S3
Oh.
26:00 S2
Yes. That dog is helping that lady. She can't see, like. And it's really loud and it's.. .kind of, I don't know, I'd rather not hear it and be reminded, I guess, but I'm sure other people don't mind. But yeah, it's kind of like being spoken about like you don't exist... and people who want to pat the dog. Pretty obvious that he's a working dog. It's quite a challenge sometimes when you when you go out, everyone's like, they get excited and they're like, Oh, like this. And when a dog, even a working dog, when they get that sort of response from people, it excites them and they want to go to them naturally. So yeah, it's just best to be calm around us.
26:41 S1
Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show, chatting about you and Phil and your amazing adventures so far.
26:48 S2
S2
Thank you. And thank you to seeing Eye Dogs for hooking me up with Phil. He's such an amazing dog. I'm so grateful for him. It's amazing what he's brought to my life, even having, you know, a big galoot of a dog in the house again. Because I've always had small dogs, you know, it was a bit of a change for me, but he's just so happy all the time, and it's infectious, you know, because my other dog is 17 and nearing the end of her life.
And so that is another thing, managing, having a new seeing eye dog with an existing pet, you know, that can that can be a little challenging because you... go out with your seeing eye dog places, you can't take your other dog, and then you have to leave the other dog at home. So it's a little bit sad, but you have to again live your life. And she's finally accepted that he's not leaving, you know, started to sit next to him. So, and she's quite tiny and he thinks he's small, you know, he tries to sit on your lap and he... has no concept of his size.
27:49 S1
So ironic for a dog that... judges distances and tries to keep you safe.
27:55 S2
I know, right? Oh, as far as he's concerned, he's a puppy.
28:00 S1
Him... self. He's about ten kilos. Ah, yes, that makes sense.
28:04 S3
Yeah.
28:05 S2
Add another 37. He's a big dog. All right. Thank you. Harriet. It was lovely chatting with you.
28:14 S1
Thanks so much, Jo. You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Jo Marsden and Phil. These two have already been on so many wonderful adventures, and it sounds like there's much, much more to come. To find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at SED dot Vision Australia dot org or follow us on socials to keep up to date with the latest news, stories and cute pics and videos. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of The Seeing Eye Dogs Show.
