00:10 S1
On Vision Australia radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. On this episode, I'm going to be joined by seeing eye handler Katy Beaton. Katy is matched with Golden Retriever seeing eye dog Bowie and is going to share her story, including about her interesting PhD, archery hobby and her life and partnership with Bowie. If you're blind or have low vision and are interested in dog guide mobility, our friendly team are happy to chat with you about becoming a handler. You can email us at info at Sidorenko or call on 1800 037 773 to chat about dog guide, mobility eligibility or assessment.
And now here's my interview with Katy - I hope you enjoy. Hi Katy, thank you for joining me on the show today.
S2
Lovely to be here.
S1
Could you please start off by introducing yourself.
01:05 S2
Hi, I'm Katy, I live in Melbourne. I'm 40 with a PhD. I am also a legally blind archer, which is a lot of fun because I shoot at things I can't see. Also looking for work so that would be good if I could find something that's a bit more stable than contract and casual. Yeah, I think that's about it. It's me and Bo and the cat.
01:25 S1
I have a lot of questions on archery and how you got into that, and also what your PhD is on. With archery...
01:33 S2
Waverly City Archers had a commentary day for people who are blind and vision impaired who might be interested in archery. They have a couple of lovely people there who are blind archers, and they basically told us how to do it. There's some adaptive tech involved, and we do need a sighted person as a spotter. But yeah, it's a lot of fun.
01:54 S1
And the PhD. What is your PhD in?
01:58 S2
I have a Doctorate in Doctor Who.
02:00 S1
So you're a Doctor of Doctor Who?
02:03 S2
Yeah, that, that was the plan from the start. It's looking at fans of Doctor Who, how we develop and express our identity as a fan, and I did it as a creative thesis where part of it is your standard, very dry academic chapters, and then the other half is a TV Bible, where I've got episode breakdowns of all of my characters doing the things that fans do over the course of a year. And it's like this research A is over here and B is over here, and then A influences B, but B influences A, and it all mixes up into a lovely methodology.
02:40 S1
So you said you're looking for work. Are you looking for Doctor Who-related work?
02:45 S2
I will take anything. I don't think anyone wants me in a kitchen, though.
02:50 S1
Is that because you burn things or...?
02:53 S2
I think I think it might be something to do with the dog in the kitchen.
02:58 S1
Okay, that does make sense. And you can bring your dog to archery. I'm guessing you can bring Bo to archery.
03:03 S2
Bo does come to archery. I have a crate for him that I keep behind the line. He was so happy the first time I put that up for him because he was like, great, I have got shade, I've got my food and water, I've got a toy. Wake me when you need me.
03:19 S1
I'll be on standby here resting and looking. Chill about it whilst you have to work hard.
03:27 S2
Yeah, he had absolutely no interest in getting up, which is really funny because one time I did try axe throwing and he tried to chase the axe. I did have him in a sit and a hold on the collar just in case. And it was just a I don't trust him to know that this is not a chase thing.
03:45 S1
If you've ever done any form of throwing a Kong or that type of thing, what's the difference? He doesn't know that the axe is inherently more dangerous.
03:53 S2
Exactly. And he was good. He didn't actually fully get up to chase it. It was just this little... uh oh. Okay.
04:03 S1
Just a just a dog kind of temporarily being a dog.
04:08 S2
Yes. I mean, he didn't even get a step. He barely broke the sit, but he really wanted to chase it.
04:16 S1
So could you please introduce... Bo? And how long have you been working together?
04:20 S2
So Bo has actually got a few names. Technically, his name is Tambo, and I said, that's great. I'm going to name him Bowie. And he gets everything from Mr. Bojangles to Tambourine Man. Generally it's Bo or Bobo. He is a golden retriever. I've had him just over a year now. He is coming up on three, although I don't think he knows that he's meant to be. Growing up, he is still very much a puppy. He is the biggest sook I have ever found. He likes to come up to just put his head on my knee and it's like, I don't want anything. I'm just, I'm saying hello. Thank you for the pat. I'm going away now.
05:05 S1
Almost like a check in. He's like, I'm just.... I just want to see that we're okay and you're okay. And now I can go and do my own thing.
05:12 S2
Yep. And he does the same thing at the dog park, which I will say is something that I did teach and reinforce where because it is a fenced park, I do feel safe letting him free run. Yeah, but I lose track of him very quickly. So if I call him, he'll come back. But he'll also, every few minutes come back and just... Yep. Still here, Mum.
05:33 S1
What made you decide to apply for a seeing eye dog?
05:35 S2
I've had four dogs now and when I had my second, I was also injured in a completely unrelated thing. It was not my dog's fault, but it left me with a permanent injury, which means I now have to walk with a forearm crutch. So I've got the dog on the left, the crutch on the right, and when I was trying to do the cane and crutch, which go in different directions, think, rub your tummy, pat your head. Yes, but also listen to the traffic and make sure that a car is not coming too quick around a corner when you try to step off a curb.
06:09 S1
Yeah, because it's like very different angles too, right? Like one, you know, your crutch I'm guessing, is quite vertical, whereas your cane is more in front of you too. So it's like...
06:17 S2
Yep, it's basically ones going vertical and the others horizontal. Or at least that's how I think of it in my head. I did try that for a little while when my third dog was unable to continue, but I really could not do it. I became housebound very quickly because I wanted to live, and I ended up applying for my beautiful seeing eye dog because I wanted to get out of the house without support workers as my only option.
06:50 S1
The dog handle is very different to the crutch in the movement.
06:54 S2
So basically with the forearm crutch and the white cane, I was having to actively focus on two movements, whereas with the forearm crutch and my seeing eye dog, I can actively focus on one and passively focus on the other. My dog takes the load for me, and instead of finding things by running into them and then moving around them, we just move around them.
07:17 S1
Not only do you feel kind of safer, but it's probably a bit more relaxed or less stressful. Don't get home and as tired.
07:25 S2
It's a lot less stressful. And it's also, when I do have to stop and start, say, at a curb, I don't have to find the rhythm again because it's just there. And yeah, I am definitely coming home a lot more relaxed. And I do have a little bit of vision left, and I was really coming home with lots of eye strain, lots of headaches because I was trying to focus on not getting hit by cars, not running into things, not falling over stuff. Whereas with my dog, that's not a problem.
07:52 S1
How would you say that your life has changed since being partnered with... I've written Bowie in my questions, but I feel like I want to choose like a different name each time. So I might go with Mr. Bojangles this time.
08:02 S2
I also go with Mr. Golden Paws quite a lot because that's his Instagram.
08:06 S1
As an influencer too, which is important, you know.
08:09 S2
Mm. He just met Santa. He's getting a lot of things for Christmas because he is on the Nice list. Oh yeah. He has basically given me my life back. And I don't say that lightly because as someone who has been visually impaired since birth, this was not a problem until I had the additional injury. I could get around with a cane or a dog if I chose. It was easier with a dog, but I could do it with a cane. That option has been removed from for me now. And yeah, he's let me get back outside.
08:44 S1
Just having some freedom. And like you said, you know there are support workers and stuff, but that's just not the same, especially if you've kind of grown up actually using the tools that you've used.
08:53 S2
Yeah, I had the nickname of Little Miss Independent. I also always had the motto of, Oh, you've said that I can't watch me.
09:01 S1
Were you one of those kids who's, like, two, and, like, running with a cane, like hooning about incredibly quickly.
09:07 S2
I actually did not get a cane until I was 16. Mix of the 80s and 90s because it was. No. You've got a little bit of vision. Use it. I had a lot of bruises. Mum did her best. But again, Little Miss Independent here. Yeah. So that was a lot of fun. And it was I think I can't see what the problem is, so let's just go for it.
09:28 S1
I'm sure it impacted a lot of how you are now with your dealing with challenges of like losing your additional ability to use a cane, I guess.
09:37 S2
Yeah, that took a few years and a lot of therapy to come to terms with, but we got there and that is something that therapy is very good for.
09:48 S1
So for anyone out there that's having a hard time, look into those professional supports and get some help.
09:54 S2
Yeah. And it's also if the first person you don't click with keep looking, there will be someone out there that will help.
10:00 S1
It's worth the wait, isn't it? A little bit like with the dogs, you know. There's a precise match for everyone. First person in your local area. Same as the dogs. If we paid you to, you know, five other dogs, they might not quite match the same way. Mhm.
10:16 S2
And I've had a dog who was not a great match for me. Having the right match is fantastic and... yeah I cannot stress how wonderful it is to have the right match.
10:27 S1
Looking at Bowie being your perfect match, what are your favorite things about him?
10:33 S2
This has nothing to do with the quality of his work, which is impeccable. But after he has a bath, he is a fluffy cloud and I love that.
10:42 S1
Is he creating additional clouds for you? Is my question.
10:46 S2
Actually, he does not shed a lot. It's amazing... being a golden retriever, he does blow coat like twice a year. But yeah, the daily grooming, I get basically nothing of him... the most I really have to do is this time of year. He seems to like rolling in grass when he has the opportunity, which... attracts all of the burrs, which I then have to comb out.
11:13 S1
Although maybe he's just doing that so that he gets like the kind of, you know, attention, grooming... grooming time.
11:20 S2
I mean, you might be right, because one of the things he does get, in addition to just the standard brushing is paw balm, something to rub in to protect their paws. It's not something he needs, but it's something he likes. When I was with Guide Dogs Vic and Justin was there, he was the one who was doing the matching and I said, Justin, I want a blonde female. He calls me up a little bit later and says, yep, I've got the dog for you. It's a black male.
11:52 S3
Yeah. Well.
11:53 S2
All right, I'll see how we go. And sure enough, he had the perfect match and move over to SEDA. And Justin has as well. And I say, Justin, I want anything other than a golden retriever. And he calls me up and it's, I've got the perfect dog for you. I mean, he's been right twice.
12:16 S1
When he said, Oh, I've got a match. It's not like, cannot decline this.
12:21 S2
It's really interesting because you can have preferences and you can have like a hard line of, No, I won't take a dog that's a golden. But if you do that, you do close off a lot of potential for a dog who might be a golden but have the traits of, you know, not a golden... like, I think Bo might actually be a cat.
12:42 S1
Which works quite well for you.
12:44 S2
Yeah, it works very well for me. And it's interesting because if you're open to meeting the dog and going for the test walk, you can see how the two of you work together. Yeah. The thing is, when I did my test walk with Bo, I wasn't told it was a test walk because they wanted to see... how I'd go with the crutch and the dog and the everything else. Because it's the first time. And at the end of the walk, he said, Well, we were considering him for you, and I've just... my brain has shut down. And yeah, it was just a... fast forward. I said, can I have another test walk where I'm actually actively thinking about this dog as a potential match for me? And yeah, sure. No problem. Fine. He was right. Again, I have decided that wherever Justin goes, I have to follow.
13:37 S1
Okay.
13:38 S2
He seems to have a magic touch.
13:41 S1
Well, I'm glad that the golden retriever worked out for you. Out of curiosity, what was it that you didn't want about a golden?
13:50 S2
Well, my previous boy, who was half golden, half lab, he was not the good match for me, and I thought all of the traits that were driving me up the wall were golden. Turns out he was just an idiot. And I say that with love. He is the sweetest dog. He has taken to retirement like a duck to water. A lot of his traits did not match me at all.
14:12 S1
And I guess that is the thing, you know? He. Lots of dogs are not the right match for any person, and it doesn't, you know, it's not a reflection on on either of the beings, but....
14:22 S2
That's... exactly it. And I mean, I will say his guide work was fantastic. It's just we did not click how... it's preferable to click.
14:33 S1
Now being with Bowie for a year, would you say that you have clicked pretty solidly now?
14:40 S2
I think we clicked pretty solidly within the first month.
14:43 S1
Okay.
14:44 S2
It's an interesting partnership because it's like, he is... I mean, obviously he's my dog, but he's also an extension of me. I don't have to tell him. He knows. So it's a really lovely relationship where he just... he knows what I want. And there are times where I might need to tell him something, and I can just do the slightest twitch of the harness without anything verbal. And he knows what that means too.
15:09 S1
That's amazing. It's very in tune.
15:12 S2
And I will say he and again, this is going back to this is something that mirrors my second dog. I had asked him to find left the other day, and he's kind of just looked back at me slightly and then turned right. It's like, Okay, you were right. I did actually mean right.
15:30 S1
Uh oh. Yeah, I guess you can.... speak English. When it comes to left and right, it's better than I can.
15:37 S2
Yeah, it's a little embarrassing, but he's like, I know you want the car. The car's not that way. It's this way. Yep. I will follow you, because obviously you're the one who knows.
15:50 S1
So what would you say that a typical day in your life together is like?
15:56 S2
It's interesting because I don't really have a typical day because I don't have work for a routine. The most typical bit is we will end up at the dog park. So we do a lot of residential walking, which is lovely because I'm now getting out again. I wasn't able to do that even. And the dog park is absolutely fabulous because we get to work on all of the fun little tricks. He knows high five. He knows shake. We're working on all the other little bits and pieces. He loves the agility stuff. I love the agility stuff. Now that I know where it is and I don't trip over.
16:29 S1
It's... all obstacles.
16:31 S2
Yes, and I did get sighted help to learn that. Yeah. Bruised my shins a couple of times. But now I know what to do and where to move. But yeah, he is fabulous. A lot of what we do is also probably like shopping. We were going to go for a golden retriever meet up on the weekend, but it got cancelled because of the rain and this poor dog got dragged around to at least five op shops.
16:55 S1
Instead of going and doing fun goals and stuff, you've taken him shopping. That's not... a good substitute.
17:02 S2
No. He also agreed it was not a good substitute. And look, his work was fine, but he was just moping. So about halfway through we went to Petbarn and I got him a treat and he picked up.
17:13 S1
So who's the boss here? Is it you or him?
17:16 S2
Oh, it's definitely him. He lets me think I'm in charge. But no, I'm aware. Very much like my second dog. He would let me think that I was in control. And we all knew that it was him, because it was just so much easier to let him be in control. And when it came to the important and safety things, he would actually listen to me. And if I said, No, we're not doing that today, it's fine, but you're making it up to me. I know that I spoil my dog massively so. But he's weight is fine, his temperament is fantastic. He will work happily enough without treats. It's just when you hit five op shops, I can understand why he's like... another one.
17:57 S1
This is one of those things. He's still a creature with his own free will. Giving a bit of payment every now and then does do quite a lot to get them coming along.
18:05 S2
Yeah. And again, even if he is in a mood, his work is still fabulous. It's just that's when he's more likely to walk me through a puddle.
18:15 S1
Okay. Which didn't really ever hurt anyone. It's just that you might have to change your socks.
18:20 S2
That's pretty much it. It's just that little bit of a, I'm not happy. I'll do it because I know we need to do it, but I'm not happy.
18:30 S1
Are there any other kind of outings or activities that you do together that you would like to share?
18:35 S2
Well, we want to see Santa recently, which was a lot of fun. He loves Santa. Santa loved him. It was quite interesting because when we went in, because we go to Myer and Santa was very much hands-off until I said, It's okay, you're Santa. He's allowed to say hello to you.
18:53 S1
It's different. Santa. You're magic. And therefore it's OK.
18:58 S2
That was pretty much it. It's... this is a once a year thing.
19:02 S1
Yes.
19:02 S2
It's not going to affect his work if he says hello to you once, we're fine. And it made Santa and the dog very, very happy, which made me happy.
19:13 S1
And if you think about, like, the likelihood of him meeting other Santas around in different times of the year, it's quite small. It's not kind of. Yeah, it's kind of a fair exemption to make. As long as you know, you know, it doesn't become like a Christmas now every 25th of every month. So Santa is around every month.
19:32 S2
Exactly. It's also one of the things that I've taught all of my dogs. Pretty much as soon as I get them, I use two extra commands, which are go say hello and back to work. And this did not work very well with my third boy, because he was a social butterfly. And, uh, that's all he wanted to do. So we didn't do it too much. But yeah, Bo knows he if he goes to say hello, he'll sit down, have a quick pat on the head, and then if I say back to work, he will line up and be ready to go.
20:02 S1
Which I guess is probably a really important skill too, not just for you and the people you know, but if a member of the public does touch him, which, you know, as we all know happens, he's got that ability to not panic and not freak out and just go, Okay, well, now we're back.
20:16 S2
And the other interesting thing... so two points. One, I always do tell everyone, don't touch most dogs. Most people will say no because they are working dogs. They are our eyes. But two, we were walking down the street and there was someone who tried to pat him while we were walking. And I know this because he veered off really hard so she couldn't reach him. And out of the corner of my eye, I could just see her hand trying to get to his head. And he is like, No, you're not going to touch me. And he kept going.
20:48 S1
I guess it would have been a wide enough footpath, like he he just veered you, video like an OBS. So it's like he's he's like, Oh, this this lady is an obstacle for me.
20:56 S2
Exactly.
20:57 S1
It's quite smart.
20:59 S2
He's too smart. It's a little scary at times. I was in... I'm in Petbarn quite a lot. I bought him an advent calendar, and they had a few different options, and I let him choose. And I'm so happy I have a witness because I didn't get a recording of this. I held one in one hand, one in the other. Let him sniff both and said, Which do you want? And he... sniff, sniff. And then, without actually putting his mouth on it, he put his mouth like around. And he chose that advent calendar.
21:31 S1
Yeah. Kind of open mouth over it, not touching it.
21:34 S2
Yeah, that's exactly it. Like, he knows he's not allowed to pick up stuff in store in harness. He's not allowed to eat stuff off the ground. But he knows he's also allowed to choose which one he wanted, and that's what he wanted.
21:48 S1
So do you have any messages for anyone considering having a dog guide?
21:56 S2
A few different thoughts. If you're unsure, definitely talk to an instructor. Definitely talk to other people. There are groups all over the place. We will give you the positives and negatives because let's face it, a cane does not need to be fed or cleaned up after it. But a cane also doesn't give you the kind of love and support you get from a dog. Trying to think what else? Because I've got so many things in my head for this question.
22:23 S1
It's probably one of the biggest decisions that you'll make because it, you know, could be, I guess, 8 to 10 years. I mean, you know, in an ideal and potentially a bit less... of your life and it's like basically 24 over seven lifestyle change.
22:37 S2
It is. it's also being prepared for when it comes to the end, when you are going to need to say goodbye when it comes to retirement, if you're not able to keep them, it can be heartbreaking, but it can also be really liberating. My retired boy is currently with my pharmacist of all people, so I get updates fairly frequently about how happy he is being a teething toy for a German Shepherd puppy.
23:06 S1
Lovely.
23:08 S2
But I'm lucky in that regard because I know not everyone would get or would want those kind of updates because it can be really hard and you just need to have the compartmentalised break. It's my working dog is now with someone else. It's now their dog. With my second boy, I didn't get the chance to retire him. He passed away very suddenly from cancer. And yeah, that was heartbreaking in itself because a dog is still going to have medical issues. It's not something that you think about when you sign up for it. And I would not change a thing. I'd go back and say, Yes, Justin, I'll take the black male and not the white female I asked for. And fine. He was trying to think the thoughts. Zeke was my perfect dog. As in, I used to go by cat. I was cat and dog. And when dog died, so did cat. So it can be... Really... I'm not having a good word time, am I?
24:07 S1
I feel like that's a... but, I mean, it's kind of hard to put into words, and I'm... sorry that you went through that because, you know, I can't imagine how awful that would have been to, like you said, it's not something you think about. You know, it's not in the realms of like, Oh, you know, you get this. This dog died and they said, yeah. Oh, they... have... health, they have bodies that they, you know, that do and don't work like, like the rest of us.
24:31 S2
Yeah. It's very much you need to be... put the dog's needs first. Not so much in the realms of Oh how to word this one. So yes, you have a seeing eye dog who is working for you because you need them to help you, but you need to make sure that they are taken care of because they can't take care of themselves. You need to be the one to provide. And I think that's a really important thing to think of because they're not robots. They're not a cane. You can't just shove them in the corner. I mean, you can, but you're going to get a call from people who aren't going to be happy.
25:16 S1
No, it... and they, you know, you got to advocate for them all the time.
25:21 S2
Yes. The amount of positive absolutely does outweigh the negative, but the negative is still there, I think. Rideshare refusal, I think people who you go to get on a train as someone is exiting and they scream and then run back into the train, up the carriage and then out the other door, and they do it loudly enough that you can hear them the whole way.
25:45 S1
Yeah.
25:46 S2
The same day that happened, I had someone else who opened the door for me on a different train. And yep, there's a seat here. It's free if you'd like it. You never know what you're going to get with a general public.
25:57 S1
Even on the same day, it's kind of crazy. You get the polar opposites of things.
26:03 S2
So you will absolutely end up with more freedom to move easily. It's like a hot knife through butter. You just move. Whereas you're also going to have some... interesting experiences that you might have to deal with.
26:18 S1
So do you have any messages for supporters of seeing to finish off?
26:23 S2
Oh, to supporters of seeing eye dogs, I love you and thank you. And I cannot tell you how grateful I am to have Bo, who is currently asleep and snoring behind me. Yep, you guys make a difference that I know you know, and I know you get the updates, but that's nowhere near enough or close enough to the difference it makes.
26:45 S1
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story.
26:49 S2
Thank you for having me. It's been a lot of fun.
26:57 S1
We've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Katy. If you're blind or have low vision and are interested in learning about becoming a handler, email us at info at [?Sidorenko] or give us a ring on 1800 037 773 to chat about dogs and mobility eligibility or assessment.
This is the final episode to be aired in 2024. What a year it's been. Thank you for joining me and for listening to the show. As always, I much appreciate your support. If you want more Seeing Eye Dogs Show, you can head to our Omni FM platform or your preferred podcast provider for more show podcasts. We'll be back next year with more Seeing Eye Dogs Show. Have a happy New Year!
