IGDD Special 1: Paul talking dog guide mobility

00:35S1

On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye sDog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I'm going to be joined by Paul Adrian, Seeing Eye Dogs advisor for Strategy and Change. Paul is also a qualified GMI. So we're going to talk about some of the eligibility and assessment criteria of getting a seeing eye dog, what dog eyed mobility means, and a bit about our application process in recognition of International Guide Dog Day. Talking about, I guess, how our dogs can help a range of people from different lifestyles, backgrounds and how we go through the process of... assessing a handler, potential handler to matching them with a seeing eye dog. If you'd like to find out more about that, keep listening. 

And you can also give us a ring on 1800 03 77 73 to talk about your circumstances. If you are interested in getting a seeing eye dog yourself. Now, my interview with Paul talking about assessment, eligibility and matching. Hi, Paul, thank you for joining me on the show today.

01:49S2

It's a pleasure, Harriet. Always nice to talk to you.

01:51S1

So you are virtually joining me, and I'm seeing eye dogs as a national program. So, could you tell us where you are in Australia at the moment?

02:00S2

Well, actually, I'm in sunny far north Queensland today, Harriet. And I've been up here now for nearly a week, and I'm staying another week. And what I'm doing is I'm actually delivering a brand new seeing eye dog to a client who lives up here.

02:17S1

How exciting.

02:18S2

It is. It's really, really, really nice. And, as you said, we are a national provider. And what's really nice is that we are still able to... travel to people wherever they are in Australia and actually train them with their dog in their or from their home, if that's the method of program that they prefer. Of course, some people do, do also travel to Melbourne, but for training in our residences there. But it's great that wherever people live, we're able to travel to them and, and, uh, deliver. The dog program's going really, really nicely. Dog from Melbourne's acclimatising really, really. Well. So I'm having a fair bit of fun and enjoying the warm weather up here, but I think that's a really important message because I think some potential clients of seeing eye dogs may not be aware that we are traveling routinely to, you know, even the far flung places around Australia only uh, only a few weeks ago, I was in Alice Springs as well. And we've had, uh, instructor visits to Darwin and, or, well, all over the place in the last six months. 

We've also, over the last few years, had a much greater focus on having instructors based in the States. Harriet and, uh, you know, we've now got a really strong presence of a couple of great young instructors in New South Wales. We've got instructors based in Queensland, we've got permanent instructors in Western Australia, and of course, a big team in Victoria. So pretty much wherever you live, we've got an instructor, you know, a trainer who's able to provide the ongoing support that I think a lot of seeing eye dog users like to have.

04:14S1

And I know, from speaking to... one of the instructors, they were kind of saying one of the benefits, too, of, I guess, people being very much in every corner of the country. You know, we've got, you know, the kind of almost training, you know, triangulated Australia covered. You know, it means that people are also getting quite quick support to, um, you know, it's not it's not like having to wait, if you, if a problem arises.

04:40S2

Absolutely. And, you know, for a lot of people, just knowing that that supports available is, is the main, the main concern. Often people don't need it, but having it available is a really good thing. And I think that's something that we're doing so much better now than perhaps we did, you know, some years ago, uh, our focus has really been on providing that, uh, local service as much as possible. And. Sure. You know, we we can't really justify having a full time instructor based in far North Queensland, for instance, because we don't have that many clients. But we do plan routine visits, to places like Far North Queensland. We'll have an instructor visit here once every three months or so so that there is that routine contact, routine availability of support. So, uh, people, people can feel like they've got a trainer really close by, even if there isn't one based in their actual location.

05:42S1

So we are, um, you're kind of joining me in recognition of International Guide Dog Day. So we're talking, I guess all things dog guide mobility and, in particular kind of wanted to focus a little bit about, um, assessment and eligibility. So I guess what it, you know, for someone who is blind or has low vision, why they might have a seeing eye dog and I guess then what the steps would be. So to start off with, I would like to ask, I guess, who benefits from guide dog guide mobility?

06:11S2

Yeah. So look, it's a really interesting question, Harriet. And there's you know, one thing I'm really going to emphasise here and, and that is that seeing eye dogs, dog guides, however we want to describe them, are not just for people who are blind. People who have low vision, uh, can also benefit really considerably from having a seeing eye dog by their side. Many, many clients or many, many potential clients have a sense that maybe if they apply, they'd be taking a dog from somebody who needs it more. And I'd really encourage the listeners today to not be under that impression, you know, that that really isn't the case. And, you know, there's been some interesting developments, developments over my time in the industry. 

I began work with seeing eye dogs or dog guides back in Australia in the 1980s. And at that stage, supply of dogs was really quite limited. You know, there's there was two providers and, you know, the supply was not that great. So, uh, it struggled to meet the demand. Today we've got, you know, a number of different organisations providing, you know, a much larger number of dogs. And so, the availability is much, much better than it was in the past. And, and I, you know, I still hear from time to time, clients who eventually come to us saying that they hadn't applied because they thought they'd be taking a dog from somebody who needs it more. And I and I really just don't want that. That's a myth that I'd really like to, you know, kill off today if we can.

08:06S1

I mean, I've definitely had, um, clients on the show who have said the same to me that they delayed because they believed, you know, for whatever reason, that was, yeah, it wasn't an option for them. And I know, um, you know, some members of the public who are less aware of, you know, blindness and low vision. Also, don't consider, I guess, the numbers of different conditions and how they, you know, like, sure. You know, I guess extreme short sightedness, tunnel kind of loss of central loss of detail, all of that types of stuff, you know, can impact the mobility in different ways that a, you know, dog guide could benefit. I guess even if it's not kind of fully blind or...

08:43S2

Absolutely. And one of the, the real benefits, Harriet, is that when you have reduced vision of regardless of what eye condition you're dealing with, traveling can be stressful. Yeah. And? The presence of of a dog guide or seeing eye dog can absolutely reduce that stress and make travelling a lot more relaxed and a lot more fun, a lot more enjoyable. And I think that's one of the really key benefits of a seeing eye dog. Just thinking about what a seeing eye dog does. What what what are the primary things that that a dog does? There's a few things. And one of the primary things that a dog will do is, uh, help identify trip hazards. And trip hazards can be all sorts of things. You know, a school bag left in the middle of the pavement, a bike or a scooter or a branch that's fallen off a tree. So that's one really important thing that a dog will do. Identify trip hazards and that includes things like steps going up and going down. 

Now, if we think just about that on its own, if a person's navigating the environment with with tunnel vision as an example. You can't look everywhere at the same time. So it becomes very stressful to be scanning where I'm going, watching out for head high obstacles, watching out for the person approaching with the with the shopping trolley, and trying to trying to scan the ground for things that might be there as trip hazards. So. The dog in that situation can allow a person to use what remaining vision they have in a much more beneficial way.

10:41S1

And so what are the kind of eligibility requirements for seeing either candles? Is there anything specific?

10:47S2

Yeah. Look there there there are a few things. And I could get really technical here Harriet. But I'm not going to because, what I'd really like is for anybody who has interest to call us up and have a conversation, because if we focus too much on, you know, what the technical requirements are, I think it just makes the whole thing seem more complicated than it needs to be. But there are a few things that that people should really consider before applying. And the first of all, first of those is that they're actually out and mobilising so that they're actually able to navigate the routes that they're commonly going to use. So that might be to and from work. It might be to and from the bus stop. For some people it might be simply a very long exercise walk that they're doing for health and fitness and relaxation. But they do need to be mobilizing and be well orientated to the route that they're or the routes that they're using. 

And there's a couple of reasons for that. One is. A dog also needs to have a quality of life and also needs to have outlet and energy outlet. So, in order to maintain the health and welfare of a of a dog of any kind, they need to be walked, you know, pretty much every day. So it is important that people have. An outlet. Meaningful work that the dog can can do to meet the dog's needs. Yeah. Ahink that that's probably the most important thing to consider. Are you out and about? And it's certainly true that many people, once they do get a dog, a seeing eye dog, they travel more and more widely, and their confidence grows and their fitness sometimes grows as well. But you need to already be mobilising. 

And we talk about that concept of orientation being well orientated to the to the travel routes. And that's really important too, because at first your dog is not going to be able to help you with any navigation. Dog doesn't know where you're going. So in order to help direct and control the dog, you need to have a pretty good idea of where you are in space. You know where where you're going. And where you are on that travel route. So you can so you can tell the dog where, where it needs to go next.

13:23S1

And I guess that kind of... a little bit comes the old, I guess, my maybe more thinking about like the what you were talking about before, the kind of, I guess, different routes. I think it's really good to note or emphasize. Like you said, there's a difference between, you know, obviously there are some people that are getting on planes every week and they're going to work and they're doing X, Y, Z extra each thing every single day. And then there are other people whose lifestyles are quite, potentially a bit more quiet, as long as it's like some, you know, shorter routes, or because I think that's a quite interesting, interesting thing to consider.

13:58S2

Well, that's true. And the, the, the range of people who apply for and are successfully using seeing eye dogs is really, really vast. So, you know, we've, we have young people as young as 13 using seeing eye dogs, and we have people right through to their 90s using seeing eye dogs. We have people who are working, and people who are not working, people who are using their dogs mostly for leisure and recreation walks, uh, others who are using their dog for commuting to and from work, hopping on and off buses, trains, aircraft, so much more. And again, when I think back, uh, to when I began in my career in this industry, it was really rare for people to be flying with, with their dogs because there wasn't so much recreation travel that was going on that involved that involved aircraft. And today it's it's it's really, really, really common. 

And, you know, people are even flying internationally with their with their dog guides, with their seeing eye dogs, to all sorts of interesting destinations. And again, looking at our clients, we have, we have people using seeing eye dogs who may may be walking, you know, their primary physical exercise is, is is a couple of kilometres a day with their dog guide. And we have others who are, you know, now running with their dog guides and doing, you know. You're really, really athletic type type. You know, high energy activities and and the ranges is really, really vast. And I think when, when people are thinking about their eligibility, you know, that's really to keep in mind, you know, age is no barrier. Lifestyle is rarely a barrier. 

You know, there's a couple of things that probably not great for dogs. So if you if you want to take your dog to rock concerts every, every Friday night, I'd probably suggest that's not the best environment for for a dog, but Yeah. That the range of lifestyles that people have is, is really, really vast. So. That shouldn't be a barrier to application either.

16:28S3

So I guess.

So I guess.

16:28S1

When, when someone is, I guess looking at that, taking that next step of applying, what is the process for assessment?

16:36S2

So, people can explore our website for more information. Of course. But they can also call us. And, uh, Harriet, you'll have to help with the phone number because I don't have it handy... But they can call us and have it and just have a general conversation with us. If they if they would like more information and we'd we'd we'd just love to feel those, those calls, uh, to help people understand what, what the, the process might look like and to give more information. But once people have decided, yes, I want to apply. Then there's a couple of steps involved. 

First of all, we'll send people an information pack. They ring, they say, I'm interested, we'll send them an information pack. And that information pack tells them a little bit about training and a little bit about the responsibilities of both parties. So what they can expect from seeing eye dogs as a service provider, what we'll do, our responsiveness, what the training looks like, uh, what the funding looks like. Because increasingly people are using NDIS funds to support their training and also to, uh, help them pay for... feeding, and veterinary care of their dog. Yeah. So the Apple Pay application pack goes out if people are happy with what they read and they want to proceed, then they fill out the application pack, send it back.

And at that stage, we'll arrange for an instructor to do a face to face visit and the instructor will come out. Spend some time getting to know the applicant. Having a look at the travel routes that we were talking about earlier. Have a look at the home to make sure that there's that the home is a safe place for a dog, and provide advice to a person about how they can make the the home safe. If it's not, go out for a little bit of a walk to gain some understanding of the person's orientation, ability, the types of environments that they're going to travel with, with the dog, and all of that. Information gathering also is used by us to locate or find or match an appropriate dog for that person's needs. 

Because, again, our dogs range from small to large, from high energy to low energy. And they suit different environments and different people's needs. So a really good understanding of a person's lifestyle and capabilities enables us to match the best possible dog to that person's needs and and their wishes. Because some people might might prefer a male or female dog, they might prefer a yellow or a black. So there's all sorts of  opportunity, for people to work with us to. Get a type of dog that meets their needs. And also, meets their individual requests as well. So once all that's done, people go on the waiting list and hopefully, within a relatively short period, we can locate a dog, and,  offer a training program to that person.

19:59S1

So, I guess, I mean, you kind of covered part of this, but are there any other factors that you'd kind of look at? When you're matching applicants on the waiting list to the specific dogs that you've got?

20:12S2

Look, walking speed is a really critical one. The sorts of environments that a person's going to spend a lot of time in is really important. So an example would be a person who's working full time or working part time in an office. They're going to need a dog that settles really well in that environment, is really quiet and unobtrusive, so they can focus on their work and don't have to focus too much on on the the dog. So there's there's one example. So it's really around a whole lot of lifestyle requirements and another... situation which might require a specific dog. If a person has some balance issues as well, which is not terribly uncommon, we might need a dog that is a little bit more stable, has a little bit more body, and doesn't doesn't react poorly to to a person stumbling or bumping into them from time to time. Controllability. Some dogs require a little bit more...

21:19S1

Management.

21:21S2

Management. Yeah, I think that's probably a good word. And some people really enjoy having a dog that is a little bit more of a challenge. So, you know, a more cheeky dog might be a way to describe it. And I could be a lot of fun for some clients. I've, I remember working with one client in particular, and she she always liked a dog that was a little bit sassy. And she was able to work that dog in a way that really, really got the best out of that dog. And there are other clients who really want a dog that is much, much, much more compliant, much, much easier to handle. So, matching for lifestyle matching for personal personal preference, matching for speed. These are the really, the critical issues.

22:12S1

And and I think anyone who's listened to the show a little bit before and has spoken, has heard some of our client interviews, would have heard I often ask a question about Why do you think you've been matched? And a lot of people do say things along the lines of that. I've had a few people say they like a cheeky dog, yes. Or they wanted a really cuddly something and they've got that. So it's interesting to kind of hear, I guess if anyone is interested, go back through the... streaming, you know, your podcast provider and find some handler interviews and find out how that kind of has maybe worked in some of these cases. It's quite interesting.

22:46S2

Yeah, I think. And you mentioned one there, which was sort of cuddly and, you know, how affectionate a dog is. And I think that one's a really important one. People, you know, some people want a dog that's really, really affectionate. And there's others who are not as... not looking for a dog that's quite as needy in that respect. The little dog that I've brought up here to Cairns. She's she's a real sweetie and a real, real cuddle pie. Really? And that's meeting the the client's needs really, really well... but at the same time, she likes to get out. Well, she does two things which are really interesting. One is that she gets out and walks on her own, and she she likes to walk for exercise, and, and they bat along at a really strong rate of knots. 

But another thing she does is she also goes for walks with some friends who have pet dogs with them. Yeah, and they're walking at a some elderly dogs and small dogs in that group, and they're walking at a very slow rate. So we're fortunate enough to have a dog that can adapt to both walking very slow and walking fast and concentrating on it, on on its work in those two situations. Yeah.

24:04S1

Well, yeah. And I guess that's kind of the interesting thing that when you see thought about, you know, the amount of work that goes into that matching is so specific. And I guess for someone who's got some of those kind of interesting criteria, I guess it's like you can kind of work it out and it might be a case of just waiting a little bit and then getting something that, you know, ticks all of the boxes.

24:26S2

That's absolutely true. And people with very, very specific requirements, uh, particularly when it starts to involve gender and color, obviously, that that starts to limit the number of dogs that might suit. But eventually we we're able to find dogs for most people in a reasonably short period of time. So we talked about, you know, people once they're on that matching list, once they once they've been assessed and... we've agreed to provide them with a seeing eye dog. Matching with a dog usually takes somewhere between 12 and 16 weeks, but for people with very, very specific requirements, it can take a little longer than that.

25:12S1

So just to I guess finish off, is there any other advice or kind of messages that you have for anyone who is blind or has low vision, considering dog mobility?

25:21S2

No, Harriet. But I just again want to just circle back and reinforce that that, you're anybody who has an interest, or thinks they might benefit, or would just like more information about what that might look like, should contact us. And I also should mention that, over the next 12 months, we're planning to do a little bit of a road show around the country, where we're hoping to provide people with the opportunity to just trial a seeing eye dog for a day with an instructor. And that can be really, you know, a great learning experience. So if you let us know that you might be interested in that, we would. Absolutely. And we'll, we'll be coming around not just in Melbourne, but we're going to take it around, to a number of different locations. So hopefully there'll be a location near you, where you can get involved and find out more with a bit of hands on experience as well. But in any case, if you would like more information, just just give us a call and we're more than happy to chat to you about it.

26:34S1

Yeah, the road show sounds really interesting. It sounds a little bit like a kind of, what's the word? Expedited version of the youth program? Yes. That the feedback from that kind of being that people are able to really get a hands on. I guess feel for it more than just the abstract. Talking to someone about what what it's like.

26:52S2

Absolutely. And that you've really hit the nail on the head there. Harriet. That's exactly the kind of experience that we would like to give people so that they get a feel of of What does it really feel like? Because it can be a really... challenging transition for some people, particularly those people who are using a long cane, and reliant, very reliant on that long cane. Suddenly you're not having that long cane in front of them can be a little bit challenging at first as they develop trust in the capability of the dog to provide safe guidance.

27:32S1

And I and I guess just to kind of finish off, when it comes to contacting, um, the team and giving you guys a ring to chat about it, that's kind of no obligation. It's just a chat, isn't it?

27:41S2

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We just, we're, all the all the team are really happy to to just chat and provide information, and that's absolutely no obligation.

27:51S1

I feel like most people are just happy to have a dog chat at some point. So, you know, you'll probably just end up having your ears talked off about, uh, about dogs. Right?

27:58S4

Yeah.

27:58S1

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking about, uh, assessment and eligibility and all things dog and mobility.

28:04S4

That's a pleasure.

28:05S1

Thanks for, you've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Paul, Seeing Eye Dogs advisor of Strategy and Change. If you'd like to find out more about seeing eye dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at sed@visionaustralia.org ... If you or a family member is blind or have low vision and you are interested in applying for a seeing eye dog or finding out more, please call our friendly team on 1800 zero three 7773 or 03 9381 6400. Or you can email info@seds.org ... If you'd like to support seeing eye dogs to make more matches, you can support us on International Guide Dog Day Giving Day on April 24th. Donations can be made online at Seeing Eye Dogs forward Slash Giving Day on International Guide Dog Day. Those donations will be matched so head to that website, make a donation and support the work of seeing eye dogs. 

Thank you for listening and don't forget to tune in! Same time next week for part two of our International Guide Dog Day special. Thank you for listening.