00:11 S1
On Vision Australia radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. On this episode, I'm joined by Cassandra Chiu, co-founder of K9 Assistance in Singapore. Cassandra joined me on the show in December of 2023, talking about her organisation and the work they do promoting assistance dogs in Singapore. Now we have some exciting updates on their progress and how one of our career change seeing Eye Dogs found a new role helping show the work of assistance dogs. We're also going to talk about her journey as a dog guide handler and her class experience with her new seeing eye dog.
Then I'm going to play an interview with Doctor Ashe Mooney of Seeing Eye Dogs Vet Team with some information and vet tips around lumps for dog owners. As always, this is general information to help you with the care of your dog, but please work with your vet for any healthcare needs for your dog.
Now let's start off this episode with the interview with Cassandra of Canine Assistance Singapore. Hi, Cassandra, thank you for joining me on the show today.
01:16 S2
Thank you. Harriet.
01:17 S1
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
01:20 S2
Absolutely. So hi everyone. I am Cassandra Chiu from Singapore.
01:25 S1
And what is the work that you are doing in the organisation that you work for?
01:31 S2
Mm. So I'm with K9 Assistance. It's a very small young charity that I co-founded with a couple of like-minded friends about four years ago to promote the use and acceptance of different types of assistance dogs, not only for seeing eye dogs, for people who are blind, but also hearing dogs for the deaf and hard of hearing mobility dogs for people with physical disabilities and autism assistance, dogs for the autistics.
01:58 S1
What made you, I guess, think about it, or start the charity?
02:02 S2
Mm. I've been a dog guide user for the last 14 or 15 years and I've benefited tremendously so much. I've gained independence, confidence, safety in my mobility. I've instead of being dependent on family and friends to get places, I've started doing things on my own, really, really flown in... fly, flew in the last decade and a half, and in Singapore there are only 8 or 9 seeing eye dogs, including mine. And I thought that that's... a really small number. And I hope that with K9 Assistance and the work that we're doing... there will be more types of assistance dogs, number one and number two, more people will benefit from it. So hopefully in my lifetime we'll see a much, much bigger number.
02:52 S1
So I think from what I've heard so far, you've kind of got a bit of a two... well maybe I'm simplifying it, but kind of two main things, which is eventually you're planning to provide. Working dogs - is that something that's in the pipeline now?
03:06 S2
We are working on it. So I would say stage zero to that is getting legislation for public access changed. Otherwise these will just be very expensive pets who can't go out.
03:18 S1
Very, very well trained, who can do a lot when you're sitting at home, which is probably not as much what you want.
03:23 S2
Exactly. So what we've been doing in the last four years is lobbying government, working, talking to businesses and people with disabilities themselves as well, because assistance dogs as a broader concept, not just seeing eye dogs, it's something really, really new in Singapore. Not many people, when they think of assistance dogs or dogs that help people with disabilities, they only think about the blind, but not other disabled individuals as well. So that's kind of where we are at the education stage, and we've gotten some headway in Singapore. We don't exactly have a disability, anti-discrimination law or anything like that. It is more specific laws.
For example... there is one specific law that allows guide dogs or seeing eye dogs for the blind to take the public transport, the train and the buses. So it's getting that piece of legislation changed to also allow other types of assistance dogs supporting people with other disabilities as well. And then we have another one for food establishments, another one for public housing... because in Singapore, most of us, 80% of us live in public housing, which are apartment flats, apartment not not super big. And generally speaking, for pets, you're only allowed to keep little dogs, like lap-sized dogs. And assistance dogs tend to be much bigger, like 25, 30 kilo Labrador.
04:53 S1
Which, you know, it doesn't make her not necessarily a, you know, lapdog, but a little, little bit doesn't fit in that description I guess.
05:03 S2
Correct for that housing. Correct. And so, you know, there are many different little pieces of laws that would allow seeing eye dogs or assistance dogs to function in society. And what we have done so far has gotten two out of the four pieces of legislation that need to be changed or amended to, or rather widened to not only allow seeing eye dogs for the blind, but also hearing dogs for the deaf and mobility dogs for people with physical disabilities.
05:31 S1
Well that's brilliant. Congratulations.
05:33 S2
Thank you. So two more to go, and then we'll be ready to rock and roll with the dogs.
05:36 S1
So how long have you been working on that piece? Did you say four years?
05:40 S2
Yes, we started right at the start of Covid.
05:44 S1
So a great a great time to start anything.
05:46 S2
Yes, it was a Covid project.
05:49 S1
What was the, I mean, what was it like starting a charity during Covid?
05:55 S2
It's interesting. I guess in many ways we're fortunate because we had to do so many things online and so many things remotely. There are downsides to it, of course. Team building with a new team. When you haven't met in person, it's tough. Yeah. You know, working with and learning from different partners around the world, such as seeing Eye Dogs Australia or Vision Australia. That was hard, because you can't fly during Covid. You could have some Zoom meetings, but, you know, it's nothing as good as sitting down, having a cup of coffee and really just chatting and getting to learn and be friends.
06:36 S1
And I guess he said as well, like, you're working also with the, I guess, people that you might be helping at some point, you know, consulting with members of your community. Yep. And if you can't actually, you know, chat with them, it's a bit alienating sometimes over Zoom.
06:50 S2
Yes it is. And also... quite recently we've got an ambassador assistance stock in Singapore that is trained to demonstrate all the different... tasks that different types of assistance dogs can do. So, for example, she is able to alert her handler to a doorbell ringing or... pick up items that are dropped, or open a drawer and pick up a medical kit for someone with a physical disability, or guide somebody to an empty seat. So different things like that, she's able to show and demonstrate. And watching a video is very, very different from actually being in a room and feeling the energy and watching the dog do its thing.
07:35 S1
And how have you found the reception for your ambassador dog?
07:39 S2
Amazing, amazing. So she's been busier, much busier than me. She's got, her calendar is so full and she's going out to engagements, meeting, going to schools, talking to children, having kids, come up to pet her and and interact with her, watching her amazing work, going to businesses, going to meetings with government, all sorts of different things. Very, very busy. Go!
08:05 S1
And do you think that, you know, I guess that has made a difference in terms of almost the legislation changes as well?
08:12 S2
Absolutely, absolutely. So I think seeing is believing in seeing a real dog in action. You can't compare it to anything else.
08:21 S1
Are you happy to tell us a little bit about the background of the Ambassador Dogs?
08:25 S2
Of course I am. I'm really, really proud and happy that Seeing Eye Dogs Australia helped us with that. And she is a career change dog, and she was given some extra training to be able to do the work that she did. So I'm I'm really happy for that on many, many counts, not just for canine assistance and what the dog's actually doing for us, but as someone who truly, truly believe in seeing eye dogs, helping the blind, you know, just watching that whole process of yeah, even if she didn't make it as a seeing eye dog, she has a new career and she's happy doing her job, and she's getting all the praise and attention and love, which is amazing.
09:04 S1
I actually knew her growing up, and I remember going to the beach with her, and she is a very, very happy-go-lucky little one, I think. Well, I say little, but she's actually quite tall, I think.
09:16 S2
Yes, she is quite tall and she's almost five years. Oh well, her fifth birthday just passed. A little celebration, some new toys.
09:27 S1
Yeah. So life for her is pretty good, then.
09:30 S2
Oh, yeah. She's the princess. That's her nickname in the office.
09:33 S1
So can you tell us a little about a little bit about your own journey with your own seeing eye dog now?
09:40 S2
Yeah, sure. So I've... well, where do I start? I have worked two previous seeing eye dogs and right now, today... let me think, what day is it? It is the 31st of October which is Halloween and I am in the midst of training with my third seeing eye dog with Seeing Eye Dogs Australia. And her name is Mandy. Absolutely. Let me reverse that. I've decided that I have given my dog's name to the public for the longest time. So from here on to the public, she shall be my dog, Mafia Godmother.
10:22 S1
Mafia Godmother?
10:24 S2
Yep. All the M's.
10:27 S1
And what makes her Mafia? You know, and Godmother.
10:31 S2
Oh. She's badass. She's a really solid dog. She works hard. Nothing fazes her. I'm in day ten of my training. And whilst coming here to Vision Australia this morning, we took a walk from Kensington into the city. We went to Vic Mart, worked through the crowds. I didn't even get hit or bumped anything. And she's just an amazing little worker.
10:57 S1
So are you feeling quite confident in your partnership together?
11:00 S2
Absolutely, absolutely. Justin, my instructor is asking me to reconsider if I want to leave the dog behind.
S1
Is he?
S2
He is.
11:08 S1
And why? And why might he be doing that? So that he can have her? Oh, okay. So he's like, Oh, wait a minute. Now that I've seen this in action, I think this is the one that I want. Yep. Hey now.
11:19 S2
Naughty, naughty.
11:20 S1
Why don't you tell him, Paws off! You know. Yep. I'm sure she would choose you over him now at this stage.
11:27 S2
I hope so. I hope so. We have a good partnership going.
11:30 S1
So? So currently, the plan is to return with her to Singapore.
11:34 S2
Yes. And we will be leaving this Sunday. Wow. Lots of exciting week ahead to just consolidate all the training that we have done and transferring the basic skills that we've gotten here over the last two weeks to my environment, my home, my workplace.
11:51 S1
Is one of our instructors coming with you to Singapore?
11:54 S2
Oh, Justin's coming. He's going to melt. There's a lot of humidity in Singapore, and it's really, really hot.
12:01 S1
Well, I mean, at least he's got short hair. I think if you had, like, a...
12:05 S2
I didn't touch his hair. I didn't have a brief look. So check it out.
12:10 S1
Well, maybe you have to do a like field comparison now and then when you're in Singapore, if it's really, like, frizzy and awful looking.
12:17 S2
He's too tall. I've got to, like, jump up to... reach the top of his head.
12:21 S1
He can kneel for the purposes of this experiment.
12:25 S2
Well, Justin, Justin, you're hearing that.
12:27 S1
I hope poor Justin, Justin will hear this, I'm sure. I mean, I think it'll be a really fun, fun journey for you guys. I mean, it'll be incredible. I don't know if she's been on a plane before. Do you know? No, she.
12:40 S2
Hasn't, but I've been on many planes with my previous two dogs, and I think I bring a little bit of expertise into this partnership. I was just having a chat with Justin this morning about Should we feed her? Should we not? Should we give her some water? I said, Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
12:57 S1
He's like, Okay, fine. Yep, yep. Cool.
12:58 S2
It's only a seven hour flight. It's not going to break the dog.
13:01 S1
No, I mean, I yeah, if she can handle Queen Vic market, which for anyone who hasn't been there, it is just mayhem.
13:12 S2
And there's people yelling and there's like crowds and it's food everywhere and scents and yeah, it's so much distraction for the dogs and people walking around not watching where they're going with trolleys. What do you call those grocery cart things?
13:20 S1
Yeah, I think trolley. Yeah. Trolleys and yeah yeah yeah, market trolleys. Yeah, I mean it's chaos. It's very much like an airport, except probably more intense in some ways.
13:32 S2
Yes, because it's full-on.
13:34 S1
So what have you kind of got planned together in, I guess your partnership coming forward?
13:39 S2
You mean moving forward? My life with Mandy, or do you mean going back to Singapore for the first week?
13:46 S1
Oh, either. Both, both. Yeah.
13:52 S2
Well, with the 5 or 6 days that Justin's going to be there, we're going to get my local travel route sorted and tight so I can do it with my eyes closed. Not that I go around, my eyes open most of the time - I'm blind, after all. And so Mandy know what she's doing and what else am I going to be doing? We are going to be doing just lots and lots of places, consolidating that and moving forward. I am looking forward to regaining that independence again. The last 1 or 2 years, my retiring guide was getting older and unable to do a lot of the guiding work, um, as well. So I've been pushing her along and it's been a breeze being able to allow and trust a new dog to do the work to keep me safe and build that confidence.
So I'm really looking forward to flying again, both figuratively and literally. With my previous guides, I used to travel around the world quite a fair bit, so we've been doing lots of different countries with my first guide, Esme, which is quite interesting because we popped by the kennels on a week and a half ago when I first landed, and there was a couple of months old puppy there named Esme, the same name as my... I know I said it's faded, but I'm not waiting two years for that puppy to grow up.
15:20 S1
No probably not. I mean, you could like, you know, you've got at least an M noise in both of them. What was your middle dog called?
15:27 S2
Elkie. Elkie, Elkie. Yes. So. Well, anyways, Mandy's good and I'm keeping her. Thank you very much Justin. You can stuff it.
15:38 S1
I will make sure that Justin listens to this interview. I might have to. Oh, it'll I mean, it'll be amazing to, um, I guess find the contribution that she helps you with in canine assistance. Singapore. I mean, I'm guessing she'll be attending a few events with you.
15:54 S2
Oh, absolutely. In fact, like... day two, that we'll be back in Singapore... I actually have a photo shoot scheduled, because I was notified two days ago that I won some award, and I have to go take the promotional photos for that on Tuesday when I arrive. So I don't know what. How are we going to do it? But we will do it.
16:18 S1
Congratulations on the award.
16:20 S2
Thank you.
16:21 S1
Is that related to your work?
16:23 S2
Mm, kind of. So in Singapore, we've got this award for disabled people that are given out. So it's called the Goh Chok Tong and Able Award. And... Goh Chok Tong was one of our prime ministers about ten, 15 years ago. So he set up this... fund to recognise people with disabilities doing good stuff.
16:47 S1
Amazing. Well, I mean, it really sounds like with K9 Assistance, yeah, you're doing some, something that's, I mean, already kind of making a difference and an impact. So, you know, in only four short years, especially over Covid, it's quite, quite remarkable.
17:01 S2
Thank you. And we couldn't have done it without the ambassador assistance dogs. Yeah.
17:07 S1
Well thank you so much for coming on the show. Is there anything else that you would like to, I guess, finish off with or share?
17:15 S2
You know what, for anyone that's listening who's thinking about getting a seeing eye dog, you know, don't think, do it. Don't think, just do it and get it from Seeing Eye Dogs Australia. They are the best. My dog Mafia Godmother is truly that.
17:36 S1
And and and she's yours now, not Justin's.
17:40 S2
No, no! Justin, paws off.
17:44 S1
Well, enjoy your your flight home and and your partnership together. May it be long and happy.
17:50 S2
Thank you.
17:57 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Cassandra Chiu of K9 Assistance Singapore. If you'd like to find out about their work, you can head to their website at K9 Assistance SG or you can head to their socials at K9 Assistance SG for updates and information on the work that they're doing in Singapore.
If you are interested in becoming a dog guide, handler yourself or a single dog handler with us, our friendly team are on board to help people who are blind or have low vision with their goals through dog eyed mobility. So if you've considered becoming a handler with us, we are happy to chat about your needs. You can email us at info at [?Sidorenko] or call on 1800 037 773 to chat about dogg mobility, eligibility or assessment.
And now I'm going to be playing some vet tips with Dr Ashe Mooney from senior vet team about lumps. So when we're health checking dogs at seeing eye dogs, back in the day when I was a kennel lieutenant, we used to have a bit of a look at the skin, and it was always asking us to check for lumps and bumps, and that was something that you'd kind of do, you know, feeling all over the dog. Why is that something that we do as a routine, and why is that important?
19:09 S3
So lumps can appear at any age, not necessarily in old age. And a lump can really be a term that's wide, encompassing. So a lump can range from something like a bug bite reaction where the skin gets a bit raised, to a tumor potentially. So it's really important that any sort of lump or bump, one, to note how big it is when you find it and also where it is - because in private practice, I get a lot of people bringing in dogs with a lump and then they can't remember where the lump is. So sometimes if it's a really hairy dog and you have access to clippers, maybe even shaving over where the lump is, that way you can see it better and remember where it is can be a really good trick. But yeah, lumps can really range from anything. And so it's important to get them checked out just to make sure that it's nothing dangerous.
20:00 S1
I guess one of the other considerations too would be, some of those - like even just those little ones, things like papillomas, which are quite contagious, right? Some lumps are, can be kind of viral or...
20:11 S3
Yeah. So papillomas are kind of the main viral lump that you'll notice. And typically they're in the mouth, but they can be on other parts of the body as well. And those are often seen in young dogs where you might notice a couple lesions and then they're transmitted through... physical contact. And there has to be a break in the skin in the recipient dog. So let's say you're a dog with a papilloma, drinks out of a water bowl, and then your dog who has a cut inside of their mouth, drink out of the same water bowl. They will then probably get a papilloma, but that's one of the few more contagious lumps, typically lumps that are there for a really long time and don't seem to kind of go away, or something else.
20:56 S1
So if you do find a lump on your dog, is that something that should always be a vet visit?
21:04 S3
Certainly. If it's causing you concern, or if it's something that's irritating your dog, whether it's, you know, has having discharge from the lump and it's causing them to lick at it or rub at it, or if it's something that's so large that it's preventing them from being able to move a limb normally. For example, if it was on their elbow and then suddenly they couldn't bend or extend their elbow anymore, that's definitely something that you would want to get checked out. But in general, you know, if if you're not that concerned about it and you're happy just monitoring it. Just bring it up at your regular annual vet, check with your vet and they'll be able to look at it then.
21:42 S1
Are there any kind of different I guess feels when we talk about lumps, I kind of think about people talking about like, lumps being kind of harder or softer. Are there any kind of differences in texture that might make it, I guess, more or less troubling or worrying?
21:58 S3
Textural differences, they can mean things. But to a layperson, I don't think that that's necessarily something that you need to think about a lot. There there are different categories of lumps that can be considered either benign, so they're not dangerous. They won't spread around the body or malignant, which is what we refer to as like a cancerous lump that can progressively spread around. Now, a benign lump or a malignant lump can feel like anything. So they can actually feel the same as each other. And the only way to tell is by looking under a microscope. So no matter how much poking and prodding and looking with the naked eye you do? Until it's looked at under a microscope by a trained professional, then you won't be able to know exactly what it is.
22:45 S1
When you're kind of looking at your dog and giving them that kind of general standard, I guess. Health check, even if it's just your pet dog, where, you know, I guess where might you be feeling for particular lumps and bumps, or is that kind of across the body that you might be assessing?
23:02 S3
I like to do kind of a full body check. And what I do with my own animals is I start from the head and I work my way toward the tail. That way I don't miss anything, and it's a bit easier to kind of have a routine of feeling along them. And it's important to get used to your dog's kind of normal body. So when they're nice and healthy, feel along them. That way you can tell if something has changed and a lump has developed. And if you have like an entire dog... so if you have a female dog that hasn't been desexed, feeling along her mammary glands, because they can develop mammary cancers. So getting used to how her mammary glands feel and whether or not there might be a lump forming in one of those is a really good idea.
23:47 S1
And I think we have spoken in a kind of previous interview, a little bit about things stuck in their feet. If there's something like a grass seed, is that going to potentially be a lump?
23:58 S3
Yeah. So you can find a swelling over the site of the grass seed, or sometimes the grass seed isn't even there anymore and it's migrated and it's just a swelling over where it entered the body. So you can dogs can develop things that look like lumps that are just a inflammatory reaction to something which is the same as, like when you see a bug bite that's quite raised. That's typically an inflammatory reaction.
24:25 S1
Is there anything else that we've kind of missed that, you know, pet owners or dog carers or handlers should know about lumps and bumps?
24:33 S3
I guess the main thing is that, usually when I see an animal with a lump, in practice, I give people multiple options, and sometimes those options are hard to understand. So I'll just run you through the basic ones here. The first option for diagnosing a lump is called a fine needle aspirate, which is where your vet pokes a needle into it and then looks at the cells under the microscope. It's important to know that this isn't always diagnostic, because it depends on if the vet poked the right part of the lump, and if it's the type of lump that will actually give cells off, or if it doesn't give off any cells. So you might not always get a diagnosis with that.
The way to definitely get a diagnosis is by doing a biopsy, which has to be done as a surgery. And it's obviously much more expensive. It has an anesthetic associated with it, but you will definitely get a... answer as to what the lump is. So knowing those two options and kind of balancing out the costs versus the knowledge that you're able to gain from each is really important.
25:35 S1
With the with the the needle aspirate one, is that going to be a bit of a case of like so you said it's harder to diagnose. Does that mean if you've got a negative it could be a false negative. Or if there is something, is that potentially going to be false as well, if that makes sense.
25:52 S3
You can certainly get false negatives in that you aren't able to collect an adequate sample to actually get a result. In terms of false positives, I suppose you could get a false positive. But the main thing to realise is that your everyday general practice veterinarian isn't a pathologist. Which is who? Pathologists are the people that look at the microscope all day, every day and are trained specifically in diagnosing these things. So those people have much greater knowledge over what to look at under the microscope than a regular GP veterinarian, and therefore will be able to give you a kind of more accurate diagnosis some of the time.
So if you get either a misdiagnosis or something where your veterinarian is maybe unsure, it's just because they have to remember so many other things and it's not the main role of their job to be looking under the microscope all day, every day, in the same way that it is a pathologist's job.
26:51 S1
I mean, I have to say, I'm always quite blown away about just the amount of things that you guys have to kind of do and cover on a daily basis, especially when you're not just looking at, you know, often dogs, but so many other things. So... thanks for coming on and showing some of that knowledge with us today.
27:06 S3
Thank you for having me.
27:14 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews with Cassandra Chiu from K9 Assistance Singapore, and with Dr Ashe Mooney from Seeing Eye Dogs Vet Team. If you'd like to find out about the work of K9 Assistance, You can head to their website at K9 Assistance CI SG, or you can follow their Instagram at K9 Assistance dot SG - all one word and in both that URL and the Instagram, it's the number nine.
If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at SED Vision Australia dot org. If you'd like to find out about becoming a handler and you're blind or have low vision, interested in learning more about getting your own seeing eye dog? You can email us at info at [?Sidorenko] or call us on 1800 037 773. There's never been a better time to look into getting a seeing eye dog. Don't forget to tune in, same time next week for another episode of The Seeing Eye Dogs Show. Or you can head to our social media for more interesting Seeing Eye Dogs news, community stories and pictures of puppies. In the meantime, thanks so much for listening.
