00:36
S1
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show with me, your host Harriet Moffat. Today I've got two guest joining me on the show. The first is Diane Bergeron, the president of Cnib Guide Dogs. We're going to be talking a little bit about Cnib, our relationship with Cnib and seeing dogs as well as Vision Australia and a little bit about what it's like heading up an organization like Celeb Guide Dogs as a dog guide handler yourself. So that's going to be a really great interview.
Then I'm going to be joined by Senior Dogs handler Gordon Boughton. We're going to be talking a little bit about his relationship with new single Dogma and becoming a first time handler at age 80. If you've ever wondered if it's too late for you to try something new or become a single handler, well, the the news is out. You are more than welcome to get in touch with our team and apply and get assessed.
So without further ado, here is my interview with Diane. And then following that will be my interview with Gordon. Thank you for listening to this [indistinct] radio show. Hi, Dan, thank you for joining me on the show today.
S2
Hi. Thank you.
S1
Well it's very cool to have another international guest coming along. Could you please tell me a bit about your your role and where you're coming from today?
S2
Sure. So I am president of CNIB Guide Dogs based in Ontario, Canada. We're just outside of Ottawa in a little area called Carleton Place is is our main facility and we've been around since we were launched in 2017. So fairly new, fairly new school. But and as I'm a handler myself, so I have quite a bit of dog experience.
S1
So being a handler yourself, how does that kind of, I guess, make or help your mission when you're working with guide dogs?
S2
You know, CNIB has been around in in Canada similar to Vision Australia where we've got more than the dog program. And so we've been around since 1918. And when we decided to begin a guide dog program, a lot of people said, Oh, you're getting in the dog business. And I've always thought that that was quite a weird comment because I, you know, as our president, CEO John Rafferty used to say, we are not in the dog business, we're in the people business. We've always been in the people business and we're still in the people business. We just happen to be using these wonderful dogs to help people with their with their lives and their freedom and independence and and quality of life.
But ultimately, the dog on its own is just a lovely trained dog. That kind of magic, as I call it, happens when you add the dog with the person, right? So the person is the key part of the relationship. And I think being a handler in charge of the program from my perspective is that's always where I go to every policy decision, every program, procedural decision that I'm doing, every single time I'm putting on my handler hat before I put on my corporate hat.
So really making sure if we're going to make a decision to do something within the program, it really needs to work for the end, the end user, the handler in the long run. And being one gives me, I think, a little bit more insight and more focus there.
S1
How long have you been a handler for?
S2
I got my first dog in 1984, and as I said to you before, I like to tell people I was 2, but I wasn't. So, yeah, all that time, like coming up 40 years next year.
S1
Which is quite a kind of interesting milestone. It does definitely mean like quite a large part of your life has been, you know, working with dogs. So understanding the importance of that relationship and that bond...
S2
Yeah. You know, it's funny because, you know, coming here without my dog, using my cane, you know, I have somebody sighted with me to a sighted guide. And I know we always tell people and I tell people all the time, keep up your cane skills. You never know when you're going to need to use your cane and so I have my cane. I use my stand using my cane.
I just I've been a dog handler forever. And quite honestly, every time one of my dogs is retired, it's been as I retired as a new dog is coming into my life. So I have never had a period of time since 1984 that I was without a without a guide dog. So even things like and I wake up in the middle of the night and I before I put my feet down, my first thought is, where's the dog? So I'm not going to step on the dog. And I kind of sweep my foot around and it literally takes me a few seconds to go, Wait a minute, dog's not here. Or just the way I move, I'm instantly always reaching for a leash and it's just so weird not to have it. It's a very, very...
S1
Weird, I think as well. I'm probably in a different vein, but being a puppy carer for quite a few years now, it feels like strange to have a left hand free.
S2
Yes, it's it's bizarre.
05:31
S1
I'm like, Oh, I've got so much movement in this hand. Yeah.
S2
Even just like right now as I sit here, I have my purse strap hanging over my knee just to have it somewhere. And so I'm used to having the same thing. I put my leash, the dog's leash on my leg, and every once in a while sit at dinner, I just reached down, touch my leg, and all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my God, where's my dog? Like, it's that instant feeling of the dog's leash, isn't there, you know? And it's just so funny. And I'm like, okay, darn smart enough.
S1
It's well, it's lovely to think about the fact that obviously, you know, with your kind of mission and the focus that that, you know, CNIB Guide dogs is headed up by someone that really knows, you know it's that best interest for all of the handlers. I feel like if you're a handler in Canada, that must be a quite... nice feeling to know that, you know, it's, it's that live experience I think is so valuable.
S2
Yeah. I have had a lot of handlers talk to me about the fact that, you know, they, they, when we first launched a guide dog program, they were obviously wondering what is this going to be like and what is it going to look like and so on. And when I kind. Came on into the president's role in 20 beginning of 2020. Some of the people who were like, not sure, not sure. They were like, Oh, wait a minute, it's Diane. She's she's a handler. She's going to keep that handler perspective. And and it doesn't mean that people who who are not handlers or who are not or who are sighted aren't going to be just as good, but they're especially for a brand new school. I think that there's a level of sudden, whether it's real or not, this sudden trust of, okay, wait a second, this person has a perspective that she knows what what's happening. And so, I mean, I truly believe that the program should be run by whoever is the best person to run the program. But I do believe there's a little bit more I'm going to say credibility from from the community of handlers just because they know that the decisions that I'm going to make are going to focus in on that perspective.
S1
Having been to the IGA conference recently, was that something that you is kind of reasonably unique to Cnib guide dogs, or have you encountered any other schools that have also been, you know, headed up by, um, yeah, other handlers.
07:44
S2
So there's a few of them, you know, keeping in mind that we just got our accreditation in November. So yeah, we're very excited. Yes, we should have gotten it a couple of years ago. But Covid, as you know, put a hold on everything. But we managed to get our accreditation in November and until then I had been working around some schools in the States, and there is a few schools in the states that have blind or partially sighted individuals running them with with guide dogs.
But it seems to be from the Deaf conference, it seems to be primarily sighted individuals and again sighted people who can see there's I was tell my boss is not his fault. He's retinal dependent. That's his that's his disability. I'm not going to hold it against him. But at the same time, I think that they have they can they can do great things. People who can see you can do great things for the organisation, and it should be the best person to run the program or run the organisation.
But I do think that having somebody as even as an advisor or in some way to be able to bring that that handler perspective is important for a program.
S1
So you've got a pretty busy visit. So I will let you go in a moment. But just to finish off, is there anything kind of exciting, you know, coming up with Cnib or anything that you'd like to share, you know, with your Vision Australia friends.
S2
So, I mean, first of all, thank you so much to to SEDs for everything that you guys have done for us from having our puppy development trainer come out here when we couldn't get dogs into Canada and do some training out here to I mean, just everything we've we've become great partners in this process.
And I think the most exciting piece for us is we are finally beginning our breeding program. We just had five pups born in February. And so now we begin that process of of doing that. And for me, that's a big step for for Cnib guide dogs. We're finally at the point where we can now do this and we just purchased Land will be building our own breeding facility in in about a year we'll start breaking ground.
So as I go through and work with the folks over here, I'll be I'll be picking their brains. And I'm just so thankful that you guys allow me and my team to step in and learn from from what is, you know, what's happening here with a school that's so, so good and has such a good reputation. So thanks for for having us come in and and invade your space.
10:15
S1
Not at all. Well, thank you so much for coming in, joining me on the show today. Thank you. You've been listening to this thing on a show on fitness reality radio. Hope enjoyed my interview with Dion Bergeron, the president of Canadian Guide Dogs in Canada.
Now to a little bit of a more local piece. We're going to be talking to Gordon and [indistinct] handler about his life with [indistinct} Yuma and getting his first seeing eye dog at 80. Hope you enjoy my interview with Gordon. Hi, Gordon. Thank you for joining me on the show today.
S3
You're welcome.
S1
So could you please introduce yourself? And then your seeing eye dog.
S3
Right? Well, my name is Gordon Boughton. I'm an 80 year old, first time with a seeing eye dog. We're into our second month. Well, his training has been well and truly over. I'm having mine at the moment.
S1
What is it like working with your first seeing eye dog at age 80?
S3
Oh, it's been brilliant. He's made such a huge difference to my life. I was staying home quite a lot. Once my sight started to diminish pretty badly, I hardly left the house. I did training with the cane. Having the dog has made a huge difference. You've got to get out because he's got to be exercised and everything. So it's made a huge difference to my life.
S1
How long ago did you lose your vision and what was the kind of process, I guess, of realising that one, you were probably losing that sight. And then I guess finding that help and getting the cane training.
S3
Well, I'd lost the sight in the right eye quite a few years ago through glaucoma, but I had a very good, strong left eye, so I was able to continue working and I had no intentions of retiring. So I kept working and driving and what have you and doing all the normal things. And then the retina came away on the left eye. And that happened four times. I had four operations. And I just got to the stage where there's nothing more could be done. So it was a bit of a shock to the system.
S1
And then I guess getting that kind of having had that keen training, what made you decide to apply for Senior Dog?
S3
Well, when I was in hospital at one stage of the game, I did get the people from seeing Eye Dog were going around talking to people. It was actually more of a donation drive I think they were doing at the time, but I got all the information from them without, you know, not necessarily wanting a dog, but I thought, well, they're here. I'll talk to them and get the information.
Thereafter, I started the cane training. I had an incident at Wye at the station where I had a cab booked and it didn't turn up and my phone had died, so I had to walk from the station up to the shopping centre to see if I could organise somebody from the shopping centre to organise a cab for me or something. And on the way up there, I got totally disoriented. And fortunately, I had the cane with me and a young guy pulled over in the car and said to me, you know, sorry, maybe you look like you're in a bit of strife here. You're in the middle of the road, so. Oh, wow. He said to me, Lucky you've got the cane with you. Otherwise, he said, I would have thought you were just a drunk. He actually drives me home, which was really nice of him.
And so that night, when I was sitting at home, I thought, I can't do this again. Then I thought, I know I need a dog. So I rang up and they came out and interviewed me and we went through the scenario of why. What made me decide to do it and. Miraculously, I got a dog within a month. That was amazing.
S1
Wow. Good. Good timing. Oh, it was fantastic. So what was the process like? I guess working out kind of what, you know, what your needs were and what you wanted in a dog? And then how do you think that, you know, your your dog has made the match for you?
S3
Well, I sort of stipulated that, you know, sort of I'd never had a female dog ever. I've had lots and lots of dogs like everybody at my age. But I'd never had a female dog, so I've only ever had male dogs. And because I'm living in a sort of like a semi-retirement village on Lake Macquarie, I didn't want a boisterous, barking dog. Yeah. So that was important to me.
So I needed something a little bit more quiet and but having had... my last dog was an American Staffy So I was used to big dogs, so that wasn't a problem. And. Mikayla came out and saw me and she sort of said, look, took videos of my walking and all this sort of thing and said to me, Look, I think I've got a dog that's perfect for you. And next thing I know, she arrives with Yuma.
15:00
S1
What is Yuma like? If you could kind of describe him for anyone who hasn't met the wonderful Yuma.
S3
He's a black Labrador retriever. Cross. Very, very gentle dog. Very gentle. He's very affectionate. Quiet is independent. Which is. Which is good. Um, and he's just good companion as well. He loves being around me and I take him down to the lake. He loves the lake. He loves swimming. So he's having the time of his life here. And I'm amazed at the training that they've had because he goes from being a goofy dog to when you put the harness on him to concentrating on what he's doing. Work wise is excellent.
S1
And for you kind of learning those initial, you know, bits of life with a senior dog, I'm sure there were bits that you kind of were very much expecting and then some things that maybe you weren't aware of. Is there anything that has kind of surprised you about, you know, getting to know Uma and working with a dog?
S3
Well, the actual Ossoff after harness. He's just like any normal dog that you've got. That when you put the harness on him, he completely changes and he's concentrating on what he's doing and making sure that, you know, sort of I'm heading in the right direction. He sort of walks me around. I've had a couple of little incidents where he's lost his concentration and I've walked into a sign.
But most of the time he's pretty good guiding me around. And I have a strange situation with my vision where I either have none or I have just a slight blurry vision that I can make things out. It varies from day to day. It depends on, whatever. So I find that, you know, sort of I'm very in need of him. But I'm surprised at just how how good he is.
S1
And you can feel like you've kind of started to really get that bond with him.
S3
That's right. Yes. You know, so we did the initial training. Since then, you know, I've had him for a year with myself, taking him on to the shopping centre and things like that. He's very good in the cab. He's good travelling in cars. And last week we did some the first time we took him on a train. Not the first time for him, but the first time for me. And that went reasonably well. So and that was a big thing for me because I really needed to have that access to public transport.
S1
Now that you can't drive, I suppose having that ability to kind of get on the train and get anywhere is quite freeing.
S3
Oh, definitely. That's what I'm looking forward to is just to be able to, you know, sort of hop on the train and just go out for the day.
S1
So what do you kind of get up to in a kind of typical, typical week?
S3
Well, it hasn't been a lot. The weather's been pretty crappy, as you know, but it's really beautiful at the moment. So we're getting out quite a bit now. But if I'm not having got any doctor's appointments or shopping appointments and things like that, well then we spend our time down at the lake. He loves it down there. You know, sort of live on the lake. So he he loves it down there. And I can let him off the lead there. He can go for a run and get rid of a lot of energy.
And he goes in for a swim and all that sort of thing and he's just perfect. But he's turned out to be an excellent companion as well as a working dog when I go out.
S1
[indistinct] I have to say I have spent a bit of time with Yuma in his kind of like puppy and breeding career. Yes. And he is quite a funny little kind of energetic guy when he's playing and he's like, as happy as anything.
S3
Oh, yes. And he has these huge bursts of energy, which which I call that. He's got the zoomies and he just takes off at 100 miles an hour and he races around and he runs and runs and runs. He just loves it.
S1
And I can imagine that for you it would be a kind of... quite nice thing to kind of, I suppose if you've had pet dogs your whole life to kind of, I guess, feel it. You know, he is obviously working dog, but he has that kind of like spirit as well when he's not keeping you safe.
S3
That's right. That's what I was surprised at because I had no idea what I was in for. And knowing, you know, sort of the sole purpose of the dog. In my mind was as a working dog. So I was I was really surprised and very happy with the fact that once he's off the harness. He's just a normal dog, you know, He just does dog things. He's excellent. So it did take me by surprise, actually, because, as I said, I wasn't knowing what to expect. Harry. You had. No, I had no idea. You just assume that the dog's there purely simply for for work. And you tend to sort of forget that it's it's still a dog. And that's why I like him to have his dog time, what I call dog time.
20:15
S1
So for someone who has turned 80 and, you know, you're thinking of kind of starting and I guess getting more independence, you know, that's not necessarily something that people would be thinking, Oh, yeah, obviously it makes sense. You know, you turn 80 and then you become a, you know, do stuff for the first time.
For example, would you have any kind of words of either encouragement or consideration for someone who was thinking, you know, maybe I'm too old for my first senior dog or to learn cane training or something similar?
S3
Well, I'm surprised at the people that, you know, sort of when I'm talking to people just normally when I'm out that are amazed that the fact that this is my first dog at my age. And I've had people say to me, I look, you know, not being aged or anything, but I'm surprised that, you know, you were able to get a dog at your age. And I see there's obviously age has got nothing to do with it, obviously. It's must be boiling down to your ability to actually handle the dog.
S1
And I suppose that that kind of the training in itself is I think it's quite full on from what I've heard or quite kind of, I guess, intensive that 2 or 3 weeks with your dog, whatever age you are. Um, but you know, if someone is thinking that that age is a barrier. Your, your, your words would be encouraging. I'm supposing.
S3
Oh, definitely. Definitely. It's definitely worth investigating for sure, if you're thinking along those lines. Well and truly. And it's I just think it's great. And it sort of gives you that extra boost of energy yourself because look, being being 80 and not having any vision for the first time as well, you tend to hibernate. And even with the cane.
I'm fine going out with people and using the cane, but I didn't like going out on my own with the cane. And then when I did venture out, I had that experience that I just mentioned to you at the station. And so I sort of was getting to the point where I wasn't hardly leaving the house. And that's ridiculous. And particularly when you've got, you know, sort of nothing else wrong with you. I'm health wise. I'm blessed with good health. Apart from the vision.
So you need to be able to getting out. And I mean, right at the moment I'm planning on on investigating some cruises for next year to take him on a cruise.
S1
Oh, that would be fun.
S3
That that'll be an exciting experience. I don't know how he'll go, but, you know, I'll enjoy it. I've never been on one. Because I never wanted to be stuck on a cruise. And if I didn't like it, I can't get off. But now there's no there's no reason for me to do that because I sort of think I'll enjoy that now.
S1
Probably a bit of a different experience to having a having a dog on a cruise rather than kind of being on there a little bit solo.
S3
That's right. Exactly.
S1
Well, is there anything else that you would like to share, I guess, with anyone who's, you know, considering becoming single handler or someone who's, you know, considering saying volunteering or helping out or anyone just who's listening in general.
S3
Well, one of the one of the things that that I sort of feel very strongly about now and feel quite guilty about, to be quite honest, is that I've gone all these years without, you know, sort of even thinking about it. And now that I'm involved with having my own dog that came to me through donations, I tend to feel that, you know, sort of, Oh, God, you know, I've never donated a penny. You just work your life and do your own thing and you think, you know, there are people out there that are actually, you know, sort of able bodied and able to do it and are donating, and here's the benefit of it.
And I'm saying that to a lot of people. You know, when they talk about it, I say, well, you know, sort of start donating to it because I wished I had it in my earlier years.
S1
And it's and like you said, it's never too late to kind of start anything, whether that's, you know, donating or volunteering or becoming a handler yourself.
S3
That's right. Exactly. Yes. And and the volunteering, I had quite an interesting we went out to lunch a couple of weeks ago with a little group of my friends, and a lady at another table came over and said to me, Oh, you've got a seat. And I said, Yes. And she said to me she was a she's a puppy raiser. Puppy raiser. And she was telling me all about that. And I thought, well, there's another side of it as well. You know, that would be would be great for people.
S1
And we are definitely looking for for carers now in parts of New South Wales like Central Coast and north suburbs of Sydney too.
24:58
S3
And the other thing too is to for people to, to remember that there's more than you know, you tend to think of the dogs as a guide dog. And straight away. That's where your brain sort of goes. Oh, there's, you know, guide dogs. And you don't you don't even know that there's other groups out there. And that surprised me because I just assumed that they were all guide dogs until until I met these people at the hospital talking about the seeing eye dog and finding out that there are other groups as well.
S1
And and probably the right place right time, not just for you kind of having seen those people or those people, but then also actually the right dog being there within kind of a month is is quite, quite remarkable. Really. The timing is is quite uncanny.
S3
It is, isn't it? Oh, look, I was absolutely amazed. You know, they Mikael rang me at Christmas to say that, look, you've been approved. And within March I had the dog and he's just as I said, he's just made such a huge difference to my life. I've had some funny experiences that, you know, sort of take you by complete surprise. And one is that when I went into the bank and there was a bit of a queue there, so I naturally enough sort of stopped the queue and Yuma decided to keep going. So he kept going and he walked past everybody in the queue and went straight to the counter.
S1
Well, I suppose for a scenario they'd be thinking that's just part of regular crowd management. Like, you know, the way that they'd weave, the way that they'd weave you past a crowd of people at the supermarket, you know, it's the same, you know, oh, well, you know, this just makes sense. We just have to go to our direction.
S3
That's right. I was so embarrassed at first when I realised where I was. And I think I said to people, Look, I'm terribly sorry. I said, you know, I didn't realise he was going to pull me here. And I started to walk away. And the people that were directly behind me now at this stage said, No, no, you stay there. You're right.
S1
Yeah, don't worry about it.
S3
No. And the girl behind the counter said to me, Are you getting served, Nick? She said, Oh, one of those dogs.
S1
Yeah. The dog decided you decided that he should be. He should be first. There's no, no, no waiting required.
S3
He decided. That's it. He decided that was it. I'm not sitting here, like that.
S1
I think not only part of their training, but it kind of feels like a kind of almost pointed move to really, you know, get get you where you needed to be. You know, this is our destination.
S3
That's right. Exactly. Yes. And you can see that's how he feels, how he thinks, because if we're going to a definite store. He... these people standing in front of it. He won't go around them. He'll go through them because that's where he's heading.
S1
This this is the direction we're not we're not going around like we are going directly the path of least resistance or the, you know, whatever.
S3
That's right. Yeah. And that's that took a bit of getting used to. But look, honestly, so funny.
S1
Thank you so much for joining me on the show and and sharing your story.
S3
You're welcome. Thanks very much, Harriet.
28:06
S1
You've been listening to the same show on Vision Australia Radio. Hope you enjoyed my interviews with Diane Bergeron, president of CNIB Guide Dogs and Gordon Boughton, seeing eye dogs handler. If you'd like to find out more about seeing our dogs, the work we do or how you can help, head to our website at [indistinct].
Don't forget that if you are interested in owning a seeing eye dog, if you're blind and have low vision and you would like to find out more about dog and mobility, our team is really happy to hear from you whether you are 18 or 80. Don't forget to head to that website or you can give our team a ring on 1800 037 773. That number again, if you're interested in finding about applying for a dog is a 1800 037 773.
We're also definitely looking for puppy areas in parts of Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales. We've actually expanded our New South Wales program to include parts of northern Sydney, including parts of the Parramatta Shire, Hornsby Shire as well as Central Coast region as well. Thank you for listening and don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of the show on Vision Australia Radio.
