Puppy Centre confidence course

00:38

S1 (Speaker 1)

On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to The Dog Show with me, your host, Howard Moffett. In this episode, I've got an interview with Jake Brown, Senior Puppy Centre attendant at seeing dogs talking about the Puppy Centre conference course. We're going to chat about the conference course, what's involved and what skills it teaches our puppies and how. Then I'm going to play a repeat of an interview with senior instructor Justin Marshall about client services. The rest of that interview and many others are available on our Omnia FM page. 

S2

Now here's my interview with Jake talking about this Puppy Center conference course. Please enjoy. Jake, thanks for joining me on the show today.

S3

Thanks for having me, Harriet.

S2

Could you please introduce yourself and your role at Senior Docs?

S3

Yeah, My name is Jacob Brown and I'm the senior dog care attendant here at Vision Australia. Seeing dogs. And I've spent most of my week working in the National Puppy Centre.

S2

So what is the purpose of the Puppy Centre conference course?

S3

The conference course was designed to give puppies a safe place to develop problem solving skills and build confidence in an unfamiliar area and also with new and novel objects and services, whilst also developing key skill of known as proprioception, which aids in the development of fine motor skills, body awareness and emotional regulation.

S2

This is something that is on site in the puppy centre and it's reasonably new, probably in the last few years, I guess two years, something like that.

S3

Yes. So it was probably we've been using it for about 18 months now, but the planning started probably just over two years ago. In planning, staff were guided by some other industry experts and inspired by some other working dog organisations that require high level of resilience. The primary one is our friends over at Australian Border Force with their detector dog program. And so the course was built in our outdoor play area in the National Puppy Centre from a range of materials that are easy to clean and especially puppy proof as well. 

The idea sort of started from an idea that Kim got whilst looking at other organisations. Jane Rosenberger, who's based in the United States, also came and visited it and sort of helped come up with an idea and what we could do with our outdoor play area. Kim spent some time working alongside Lina, developing plans on how to construct this course and how to incorporate a lot of different activities into the one area. Those plans which were devised by Lina, were then sent to Ivan and our maintenance team and construction began shortly after.

S2

All quite a team effort then really the concept to end product.

S3

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of people involved with the development construction and then introducing it into our puppy center routine. And of course, training not only the puppies, but training staff and our extremely dedicated puppy center volunteers on how to assist with that training.

S2

So what age do they first experience the course and is it introduced? Kind of all in one or do you introduce it in sections?

S3

Yeah. So puppies are introduced to the confidence course when they're almost five weeks old. They spend some time playing in the outside play area with their mum first, where they can explore and investigate the outside of the confidence course. The walls of the confidence course are all clear, so they're able to look in and just get a good feel and sense of what's in there without actually understanding what it really is just yet. Along with that, getting used to the different sounds and smells that they're going to come in contact with in the outside play area and that we do that all before starting their training in the confidence course just so they're used to being outside. 

And then, yeah, the confidence course is broken down into pretty much four sections and we employ the training principles of back chaining and target training in the first week of navigating the course. And so we, we break down the more challenging sections down into even more sections and slowly introduce pups the whole course over the first week with the aim that the puppies will be able to complete the whole course from start to finish. By the time they're about six weeks old.

S2

Wow. So that's quite early, actually. And kind of doing that in in a few different chunks is interesting. So what are the types of different surfaces that are featured on the course?

05:08

S3

We use a wide variety of materials to sort of simulate surfaces that pops may encounter once they leave the puppy centre. For instance, there's laminate wood flooring. So we've got we've got different each sections got different flooring. So, yeah, laminate wood flooring, we've got stones and pebbles that are concreted into the ground. There's metal floored section that's actually suspended by wires. We can actually adjust the height so it becomes a movable sort of unstable floor.

S2

Do you ever do that? I don't think I've ever seen that.

S3

Yeah. So that's done. When the puppies are first introduced to that section, we have it, we don't have it suspended. So it's just flat. So the pups get used to that type of flooring. It's metal sort of corrugated textured, almost corrugated sort of steel. Once the pups get older, we then elevate that. We attach the wires so it's suspended. So it is unstable floor. So the pups will have to get used to not only walking over it, but stabilising themselves. Whilst they're doing that, there's also clear and blocked out perspex along the walls and the floor of different sections of the conference course, as well as the small little plastic tactile tiles that all have different textures. And so they feel really different underfoot for the pups.

S2

They're a little bit like kind of playground equipment. The whole the visual of it is very, very much like a kind of kids playground, sensory playground, isn't it?

S3

Absolutely, yeah. We've had a lot of people have sort of looked at it and said it very much looks like a playground that you'd see at a kindergarten for sure.

S2

So we spoke a little bit about or you spoke a bit about proprioception... what is proprioception and what are the types of activities and sections in the confidence course that help with that skill?

S3

Okay. So in short, proprioception is the ability to sense one's movement, actions and location. So in puppy terms, we want to help them understand where their body is in relation to their environment and think about how to control their body in it. So two of the best activity used to help pups develop their proprioception skills are in the confidence course. 

So we've got a section where pups need to navigate a tight maze where pups need to actually zigzag their way through sharp turns, and then that almost directly runs into an area of the course where pups need to go over and under about ten pipes, which is sort of like hurdles for them. And then so like at this age that we introduce pups to these sections, pups mostly think about moving by using their front legs only. So when they're going over something, they quite often get stuck because they need to push off with their back legs. But they haven't really grasped the idea of, Hey, I've got back legs, I can push up with my back legs and that'll get me over. So these activities really help them think about, Oh, I've got back legs, I'll just use them. I'll get over this obstacle easily.

S2

It's a bit like when you kind of watch those puppies trying to navigate stairs when they suddenly get those big back legs and they have no idea what to be doing with them.

S3

That's exactly right. It is really just teaching pups that, hey, you've got an extra two legs at the back that you can control. Please use them. Yeah, use them. They're very helpful.

S2

So what is the benefit of using, say, different types of. I think we spoke a bit about some of those barriers are kind of clear on the side. So different barriers, heights, ramps and then even the kind of small chain, small stairs. So like elevation changes.

S3

Of course. Yeah. The confidence course does have several sort of dips and rises throughout the course in each section. Most barriers through the course are clear, so pups are aware of elevation changes and they used to guess unconcealed stairs or ramps. There are three ramps in about three small flights of stairs that the pups will either have to go up or down. And there's a combination of both. And so we encourage the pups to walk or climb up nice and slowly rather than jump. That also helps them with those stair climbing skills and going up and down ramps. Ramps are quite easy to go up, but we do find depending on the gradient of the ramp, that ramps can be quite tricky to go down. 

So yeah, very much used a lot in the confidence course going up and down so they can become familiar with that. And to encourage that we use a lot of positive reinforcement through either verbal praise or food rewards to lure the pups up and down through these obstacles carefully. Just so they can be confident with stairs, ramps and race platforms going forward.

S2

So you talk a bit about kind of what's going on under their feet. Is there anything above their heads or, you know, are there any types of overhanging or dangling objects? And why is it important for a seeing dog in their future?

10:08

S3

Yeah, so there is a couple of those. It's not just under their feet. They have to be aware of. There's a section which is a tunnel, so cops will have to go through this dark, confined space, which can be a little bit intimidating for different pups. We also have a section of the confidence course where we've got some plastic chains with some sort of novel objects hanging from them. Just different bits and pieces there. Not really anything in particular like think there might be a funnel on one or, you know, a little bow on the other. And these, there's about ten layers, if you can imagine, about four layers across four chains, across maybe ten layers deep. And they're all divided in different spots throughout this section, perhaps will need to find a way to navigate through them to get to the next stage.

Next section. This really helps with problem solving skills because we want the pups to find the easiest way through this section. And by the time pups get to eight weeks of age they've worked out, they don't actually don't need to go through the middle and weave and try and find a way, a path through the middle of it. They just run up the side, which is quite clever of them, but that's that's what we want. So that puppy has learnt that over those number of weeks going through their...

S2

It's a bit of "work smarter, not harder".

S3

Oh absolutely. Yeah. They know as soon as they finish that section, get a treat. So if they go down the side they're going to get a treat sooner. Absolutely. Whilst also working on problem solving skills whilst going through those hanging objects and those chains, the chains and whatever's on them will rub against the pup's body. So this really helps pups become accustomed to things. Touching them helps them overcome any sensitivities associated when something rubs against them or touches their body when they're not expecting it.

S2

And it's very... a lot of these things, it's very similar to what you encounter like with a puppy out and about in public. It's like the same as the flappy like fly screening things. When you go through like an old like a bar or shop like that, or when you have to walk through some, like, kind of tight spaces. It's interesting how, yeah, it really is kind of mimicking some of these things in the outside world and helps prepare them for that.

S3

Yeah, it's definitely... what the aim was to try and mimic what puppies may encounter in the next stage of puppy development when they're out with their carers. So they may have already those foundational skills and learning from in here. So hopefully, carers don't find too many situations too challenging with the pups.

S2

So they're all I mean, the puppies are very much individuals, even from that kind of five weeks of age. And I'm assuming some are very kind of gung ho. And, you know, I'll do it. And nothing really like, you know, you get pups that kind of nothing really fazes them. And then others that are a bit more reserved. How do you help those more sensitive puppies become comfortable on the course? I assume it's not kind of that they have to do it. But it's this, then a little bit more support for them.

S3

Yeah, well, that's absolutely right. And that's perfect that you referred to them as individuals. Because not every puppy is the same and they all learn at different sort of speeds. Yeah. So it's no surprise that some pups will naturally be more confident and comfortable and others, of course will be a little bit more reserved and guess slower. Building that confidence in there. 

So for those parts that are finding a little bit more challenging or difficult to navigate, either a small section or maybe even the whole course, quite often we'll utilise what we call the buddy system. So this is where we use the support of a pup's litter mate that is showing a higher degree of confidence in the course and will act as a leader for the least confident pup after a pup completes a training session or needs to have a break from the session if they become too overwhelmed. 

We have what we call decompression time with the pup. This requires staff to sit down with the pup providing cuddles and massages if that's what they require. Or sometimes if a pup needs some space to think about what they've just been doing, we'll provide that space. But we'll also just keep a close eye on that pup. I know it sounds like a tough job, doesn't it? Yeah, it's expiration time.

S2

So just watching them do a little bit of whatever they fancy in the outside space, that kind of thing.

S3

Yeah, exactly. And providing them a cuddle as well. So that's a really important thing. It helps them process what they've just done. So yeah, through the use of the buddy system decompression time, using a high rate of food reward as reinforcer, those pups that are a little bit less confident are usually able to overcome any sort of hesitation or concerns they have throughout their stay in the puppy centre and usually successfully complete the course by the time they're ready to leave the puppy center at eight weeks of age. Guess will also add through those decompression times through every session. 

We do make notes on how puppies are progressing through each session from week to week and even that small section to the next small section, and then having to repeat that section over again. So we include really important notes on what support was provided to an individual puppy. Some pups will need a higher rate of reward. They'll need lots and lots of treats as a lure, whereas some puppies won't necessarily need that and will benefit more from just the verbal support or even touch from either one of the staff or the volunteers being there.

15:12

S2

So the Public Confidence Course project was presented at the conference. How was this received by other schools?

S3

Yeah, it sure was. So at the International Guide Dog Federation conference in Vancouver, we presented this project in poster form during a working session and the poster proved to be very popular and we had a lot of positive feedback, had quite a lot of interest from other schools, which was pretty exciting as well. A lot more interest than what we were expecting, that's for sure.

S2

So internationally, have you found, other than the things that guess you've kind of already based it on? Have you found that many schools do have similar in that same kind of presentation?

S3

Yeah. So a lot of, I guess, proprioception developing confidence building activities are done at a lot of other schools internationally in their own socialisation programs, in particular early socialisation programs. But from what we gather, there are very few schools Guess guide dog schools that have specific have a specific course that encompass encompasses a lot of the required early puppy socialisation activities. As we do.

S2

It feels like with the kind of when you're dealing with especially some of those big litters, that it must be quite game changing to be able to kind of do it in a really controlled, careful manner, making sure that each one has a good go of it, and then also taking those notes as well.

S3

Yeah, it it obviously providing a really safe place for the puppies to learn. It helps them, but it also helps us being able to facilitate that early learning rather than have multiple areas set up with multiple activities and having to usher the puppy through all those different activities. We've got one area where we can start and finish and we can tick off a lot of boxes all at once. It really helps staff, but also, yeah, really benefits that puppy as well.

S2

Sharing that information about the conference course to other schools. Do you know if any other schools will look at creating similar or taking those principles of the course into their own programs for young puppies?

S2

Yeah, actually we had quite a few representatives, a couple in particular, that were really, really excited and really interested, trying to get as many details out of us as they could. There's another schools internationally that are growing their program, either redeveloping their school or building a brand new school. So now's the time. They're actually looking to incorporate a very similar course into their program. 

And even since the conference, the poster has been shared on the International Working Dog Registry website, which a lot of other guide dog schools and working dog organizations have access to. And pretty soon the the training plan and even the building plans that we used will also be shared. Yeah. So those schools can pretty much meet. We make our course to the last group, if that's what they want to do.

S2

Very cool and very impressive to start a bit of something there. It must have really blown people away looking at all the work that's gone into this and how it's. Yeah, really working for the puppies that we've had going through the centre.

S3

Yeah, absolutely.

S2

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Talking the Puppy Centre confidence course.

S3

No worries. Thanks so much for having me. How are you?

S2

You've been listening to the Senior Dog Show on Fitness Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Jake Brown at the senior puppy attendant at Sing Puppy Centre, talking about the confidence course. If you'd like to find out more about seeing our dogs puppy confidence course, there is a website available on our Facebook where you can see puppies go through that course. It's pretty cute and it's good visual explanation of of what we just spoke about. 

Now, I'm going to be playing a repeat of my interview with Justin Marshall, seeing Eye Dog, senior instructor, talking about client services. If you're interested in becoming a single handler, don't forget to head to our website or reach out to the team to find out about whether seeing dog and dog mobility is right for you. Thank you for listening and enjoying my interview with Justin. Hi Justin. Thanks for joining me on the show today.

S4

Hello, Harriet. Thank you for letting me come on and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

S2

So I might just start off. Could you please introduce yourself? And you're all seeing eye dogs.

S4

Yeah. Well, I'm Justin Marshall. I my role at CNI Dogs is a senior mobility instructor or orientation mobility instructor with senior dogs.

S2

So what does that mean? You know, what do you do in the role, in your role as an instructor and the mobility side of things?

S4

It means a lot. It what my role is, is to assess people who are inquiring about a seeing eye dog and to see if they have the criteria to be able to work with one and to manage one. It is also to teach people and assess them how to use the long cane and other mobility devices, such as a mini guide or jeeps. But the main part of my role is to go out, review people to see if they are eligible for a senior dog and to help them to move towards having a dog for their mobility.

20:30

S2

What is a mini guide, for anyone who's not aware?

20:33

S4

A mini guide is a small secondary device that a person can hold in their hand and it sends out little radar beams so it can be one metre, 3m or 6m, and it cones out. And so while the person is walking along the street, they can have this device in their hand and it will pick up overhanging branches. It can also be used for if a person works in an office, they can walk down a long corridor and they can count doors. So it will be vibrating madly when it's near the wall. But when there's an open door, it will stop vibrating and so people can count the number of doors to get into the right direction and the right place.

S2

So essentially kind of just helping that navigation in the same kind of similar ways as a as a cane. It's letting them know what's ahead.

S4

A cane and a seeing eye dog is what we call a primary mobility aide. So that is for someone who has very low vision and potential of dangers of falling or tripping, where this is a secondary device where used in conjunction, it can enhance safer mobility for some clients and all.

S2

So when we when you said before as well about kind of assessing people and helping them move towards those those kind of mobility goals that they have, it's not just a case of, I guess, looking at someone and then saying, okay, no, it's not for you, is it? It really is that kind of collaborative. You're going to kind of work out a plan.

S4

Yes, it is really quite a complex task. So if somebody is going to apply for a senior dog and we'd prefer that people apply sooner rather than later. So a lot of people will like to wait until they lose their vision or have it to that point when it's really bad. If somebody has residual vision, it's good for them to apply sooner and we will come out. And what we look at is the person's home and living environment so that it's a safe environment for a dog to go into. We have a look at the person's travel routes and where they walk and where they they go. So we will look at how they use the cane, how they can navigate with their vision loss. At this stage. We will also look at what we're aiming at with that is to see if a person is orientated to the travel route, because a lot of people think that we just pick up this wonderful harness handle and tell the dog or ask the dog to say, Take me to the bank and off we go.

Yeah. So it's important. That the we the client understands their travel routes. They don't have to know every crack or crevice, but they just need to know. Okay, I cross 3 or 5 five streets before I get to the shopping centre and I turn left or turn right. We also look at their walking pace on their gait. So not every dog suits every client. So we have to look at how they walk, how whether they're a fast walk or a slow walker, whether they are happy to use their voice and communicate with a dog. We look at their physical strength to see if they can manage a 27 kilo dog.

S2

Or the big old 40 kilo ones.

S4

Well, they're occasionally 40 kilo dogs. Yes. So there's a lot involved. And so with the assessment and that can take anywhere from 2 to 3 hours or it could even be extended over a long period because we want to make sure we can gather all the information and and get to know the client. And we also want to impart the information so the client knows what they're they're looking into and how it operates.

24:42

S2

So I guess once that person has then, you know, gone through that process, they've had their dog. I think we've spoken a little bit or I've spoken with with other people a little bit about that kind of that class things. Once that team is independent and they've, you know, they've got the dog there, they're out and about. Is that kind of it or do you do any, you know, client services and follow ups?

S4

Yes, a lot of people do ask that question. And we are so lucky here at Vision Australia and seeing eye dogs is that through the management we are able to support our clients as often as they need us. So in terms of with a CNI dog program, a client will come in either at our residential facilities and train or we will do domiciliary training where it's in-home training and that will be 2 to 4 weeks. That is just to get the person comfortable and set up on their travel routes. We then will provide each client with a one month, a three month, a six month and a 12 month follow up. And during that time, if there's any problems happening with their dog, if it's like an example, could be a dog's jumping up on the furniture and the person needs help to stop that, we will go out and work with that client specifically on that that problem. 

So we could be out seeing the clients a good 2 or 3 times in each year because we also have orientation programs where if a person needs to learn a new travel route, we will go out and help and support them with that.

S2

And it's not only, you know, local to to Melbourne, I know you know, Victoria is our home base and we've got all of our training facilities there. But you know, do you travel across Australia to assist handlers, and you know, is it only kind of 1 or 2 people that will do those travels?

S4

We once again, we are very lucky with the Vision Australia and seeing eye dogs is that we do have instructors over in Western Australia. We have an instructor up in Queensland and for the rest of the regions in the country we send instructors out from Melbourne. So normally we will try to send a consistent person out into the regions. However, if there is an emergency we will send any instructor out. So we are very lucky that that CNI dogs are able to cater for all of our clients in Australia.

S2

And we're actually quite lucky now that we have two New South Wales based instructors. That's kind of a quite, quite new arrival. But those guys are hopefully going to be providing some services to those, to those New South Wales clients.

S4

That's correct, and I do apologise. I did forget about Luca, who's up there. We are just so lucky so that we can now have a reaction time, which is a lot quicker if a client does need our assistance. But you know, it doesn't matter where our clients are. We also have clients up in Darwin and so if they need services, we will be there to help them. I would really like to to say to our clients is really we're here to help. We're here to support. If you are having trouble or you know, any issues, especially with your dog, give us a call. 

You know, we're here to try to help, you know, but we've also got to remember to our dogs aren't robots. They are there are dog. First before they were guide. And you need to learn to work together as a team. And when that takes quite some time so it can take a good 12 months before a team is comfortable with each other. But when you see a good working team, it's amazing, it's one heart and one mind and it's like telepathy. It's just brilliant. And dog mobility. It may not be for everyone, but it is a wonderful form of mobility for people.

S2

You've been listening to this show on Virgin Australia Radio. Hope you enjoyed my interviews with Jake Brown, senior puppy attendant and Justin Marshall, senior instructor at Senior Dogs. If you'd like to find out more about seeing our dogs, the work we do or how you can help, head to a site at Vision Australia. Org. If you like to become a puppy carer, that website will have a lot of information. Or you can attend an up and coming information session or reach out to the team. If you are someone who is blind or has low vision. And if you'd like to find out if dog mobility is right for you, you can get in touch with our team and we'd love to talk through the application process with you or eligibility. 

You can reach out to us by heading to our website or giving us a ring at 1800 037 773. Thank you for listening to the radio show and if you'd like to find more episodes of this and other great Vision Australia radio shows, head to your preferred podcast provider or our Omni FM platform.