Shelley and Evan's story, Brooke talking equipment

00:10S1

On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show with me, your host Harriet Moffat. Today I'm joined by two guests. I have Shelley White, a singer, Alex Handler, coming to talk to us about her singing, even in recognition of National Golden Retriever Day, which was on Saturday the 3rd of February. And then I'm going to be joined by Brooke Anderson for a repeat episode where she will talk to us about the equipment that single track handlers and dog handlers can use. And now we're going to start with the interview with Shelley. Hi, Shelley, thank you for joining me on the show today. Thank you for having me. So I would love if you'd be happy to start off by introducing yourself. And you're seeing it all right.

00:55S2

My name is Shelly, and I have a golden retriever seeing eye dog called Evan.

01:00S1

How long have you and Evan been working together for?

01:04S2

Uh, for nine and a half years now.

01:07S1

Wow. So you guys basically have been together. That's pretty much his, you know, a whole working career, isn't it? You would have seen him from a very young dog up to now.

01:17S2

Yes, absolutely. And he's now ten.

01:21S1

Oh, which is a lovely lovely actually said it got those double digits, you know. So I imagine he's slightly whiter in the face than he was when you first met him.

01:30S2

Yes, he's very well frosted, like, um, white icing on a cake. Really?

01:35S3

Ah.

01:35S1

I've heard it referred to as, like, Sugar Face, which I think is quite cute. You know, it's like sweet and, um.

01:41S2

That's correct. Good enough to eat.

01:45S1

So in the time that you've, um, been together, what are the things about Evan that you have loved the most?

01:55S2

I love the fact that, uh, he never forgets how working roots. Um, he'll indicate with body language if we've taken the wrong turn, as he knows where we're going to be going. Um, the fact that he gives me my independence and I'm confidence to go out in public. Um, so he takes me around potholes, finds locations for me. Um, and I find it much easier with the dog, the motor with the cane. Because there's no teamwork with the cane where a dog. It's. You're working as a team, you're working together. You read each other. Um, over time, it gets better and better over time, once you get to know each other. And, um, it just gets me out, and we enjoy our time together.

02:44S1

Have you always been blind? I had low vision.

02:48S2

I was born with, um, uh, low vision. And it got worse over time as I got older.

02:55S1

So kind of thinking back to it. And obviously this is going a little bit a little bit back. What made you decide to apply for a CIA dog?

03:03S2

Well, I didn't like the cane very much, and I wasn't as confident with it. Um, and I thought with the dog and I heard about seeing eye dogs, I thought, wow, what a difference I think it could make to my life. And it certainly has gave me more freedom. Um, I don't trip over potholes. Excuse me. Or, um, have difficulty finding my location. Um. And if I get lost, I'm not in panic mode with a dog by my side.

03:38S1

And I'm guessing as well from some of our previous conversations, is that it's not just the kind of navigational side that you that you like as well. So that companionship is a pretty big part of it.

03:51S2

Oh, absolutely. They become like your best friends. You're so gelled together. You can read each other, sometimes to the point you don't need words. Um, and just enjoy every excuse, my every aspect of each other. And and you also meet people. It's amazing. Through, um, social networks, through your dog. And it just changes your life and enriches in every single way. Best companion you can have.

04:18S1

So what are the some of the kind of, um, things that you do in a typical day with you and even.

04:25S2

Uh, well, we get up in the morning, he has his breakfast, I get ready for the day. Um, and then, uh, he has these toilets. Put the harness on, we go and locate the bus stop. We get the bus, we go down to the train station, um, catch the train. So we have different destinations of routes where we're going to go. And we have our whole day outing, um, where I'd like to go. And then we are able to get the train back home and then get the bus, and then we walk from our, uh, main street towards home. And then other days I break it up, we'll have, uh, park time because they're still dogs. They're going to have their social time. Um, and then other times we go for a walk on a lead, and I use my cane to keep our, um, lead work skills up. And he has a lot of fun at home as well.

05:21S1

Yeah, he definitely sounds like he's, um. He's got a pretty good life as well. Not just kind of. It's. There's a bit of work, and I'm sure he loves that, but, um. Yeah, he's got a bit of free time of his own, doesn't he?

05:31S2

Oh, absolutely. Because it's important. They're still dogs at the end of the day. And it's good for their mentality to de-stress, decompress from working because it's high pressure. They have to concentrate at such a high level. Um, and it's good for him just to relax and eat and de-stress and at home, that's home where he can just really chill out because that's important too, for their health, uh, mental and physical as well. It's really important that they still get to be dogs, as well as working with what they're trying to do, and they enjoy it. But that's still important to, uh, for a healthy lifestyle.

06:06S1

In the time that you've been together, are there any particular, um, kind of, I guess, outings that you've done, um, that you're particularly kind of, you know, I guess, fond memories of or are proud of.

06:19S2

Uh, yep. We do, uh, normally Thursdays bushwalking tracks. So we do different areas, um, locations, um, in the cooler weather. So we don't have to worry about snakes and things. Um, and also, um, been to Melbourne Aquarium. That was achievement to go on our own. So that was really cool. And he enjoyed that too. And made friends with an Emperor penguin, which was really sweet.

06:45S1

Did they interact with each other?

06:47S2

Through the glass windows, the actual work as they were. We're quite amused by it and even was given it kisses through the glass window being friends. And I've just achieved, like many things like going, you know, to different places, shopping centers. That's a big achievement for me because I never used to do things on my own with the cane.

07:09S3

Yeah.

07:09S2

I never enjoyed it. I didn't have the confidence and all that where having even I enjoy every single moment of getting out together. Um, it just boosts your confidence. Getting out in the community and going to places gives them independence. I don't have to rely on anyone. I can go wherever I want to go. Moonee ponds for a coffee, um, go to Kmart, uh, Bendigo, uh, Woodend, um, all different places. And even been to hanging Rock as well.

07:38S3

Hanging out there. That's because, like.

07:40S1

Hanging Rock is a pretty, um, pretty solid walk, that one.

07:44S2

It's really good. And then, you know, you can also have a lot of bushwalking tracks around the surrounds too, which is quite lovely as well. Being one with nature, I guess.

07:55S1

So kind of looking, looking back and prior to having Evan, um, or or I guess having just received Evan. Um, is there anything that kind of surprised you about having a scenario that you now or that you didn't know at the time before you had one?

08:13S2

Are how highly trained they are. And, um, all the commands. There were so much to learn, even with me. I had to learn all that. True. And I didn't realize that the freedom that you can have with your dog and the enjoyment even that's working, it's so much joy. It's joy because you're getting out, being together. There's nothing like it. And you don't have to wait for anyone. You know, I can just say to my dog, hey, we're going to go here today. Let's go and do it. And then off we go. And it's so much enjoyment. Being with your dog and the independents who don't have to rely on anyone like where I did before. But with Evan, I have so much freedom and it's amazing what they're trying to do and how they remember, um, your routine where you places, where you go, the shops where the escalators are, the lift stays, train stations. They never forget anything after one go. That blew my mind. And it still does.

09:12S1

And he's still kind of quite active and out and about. If you guys are still doing kind of yeah, your big public transport journeys and all of that type of stuff. Even at the age of ten.

09:23S2

Yeah. Hey, look, he's slowing down now, which is understandable. So, um, I sort of, uh, don't work him out of town now. Um, because he's over that. But luckily, at home town, we, um, in the summer months, we will work down the shops. He still enjoys that, um, winter. Yeah, we during the day, we do shopping, different things. And he just enjoys that. Um, he's in good health. I've always, um, brought 3 or 4 sick towels. We've gone out to keep him off the cold ground. So whether that's worked in our favor, I'm just lucky. I don't know, um, but he's been in good health. And as I say, he's just legs. He's just slowing down. He's getting the golden, uh, wobbles, as I call it. Oh, um, and he has these off days to where he's like, I, you know, I don't want to go out today, and that's fine. Yeah. So, you know, he needs to, like, rest more. Um, and 1 or 2 days is really enough for him now. Um, so I've, I've worked at, um, but he's capabilities, and you have to go with that because he's not young anymore. Um, unfortunately. So. Yeah. And it's getting to that time where, um, soon he'll be heading into retirement. And rightly so. I mean, he's worked so hard.

10:40S1

And what does retirement. Um, what is that kind of looking like for Evan at the moment?

10:47S2

It's looking pretty good. So right at this minute I'm on the list for a new one, a Goldie. Of course, I love their hair brushing and all that. They're just beautiful in every way for me. Um, so when that happens, the new dog comes, he gets to retire and gets released from seeing eye dogs. Um, and he gets to enjoy life at home. Um, and just a lot of lead walks, and there's no harness that will be placed on him anymore. Live a good life.

11:17S1

And so he'll stay with you as you're, um, kind of, you know, pet dog and companion.

11:23S2

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. We're you know, I'm one of those ones where I'm lucky, I'm able to keep him. And I couldn't let go. Um. And I couldn't do that to him.

11:35S1

I can imagine, after so many years of working together, that the idea of separating would be pretty difficult. I suppose if you, you know, if that's something that you know you have to do, I suppose that's a necessity. But, um, if you have the ability to, um, really nice to be able to kind of spend that retirement time with him.

11:54S2

100%. He'd be the type where he'd. His health would go down. He would stop eating. Um, he wouldn't cope with anyone else. And I guess I would get stressed out myself and I'd be crying. And it wouldn't be the same without having Evan at home with me. I couldn't imagine life without him really. In working. Retirement? Yeah. It's a you know, I couldn't I just couldn't do it. Their bond is just so strong. We're just inseparable, really. Um, and I'm glad that I get to do that for him and still take great care of him and let him enjoy his retirement and get to be just a normal dog every day.

12:36S3

Well, that's pretty cool.

12:36S2

You have a friend as well to play with, which is good at home.

12:40S1

I think that's pretty exciting, really, isn't it? It's a different, different kind of chapter for both of you. And he's only he's only your first thing I do because I think you might have said absolutely.

12:49S2

Yeah. Yep. Um, I had the cane for about 2 or 3 years, I think, before I had even and before that I had a German Shepherd for 14 years. Um, so I always had dogs and all that all my life. And, uh, I just couldn't fathom the thought of ever letting go. Really. Just don't have that in me at all.

13:10S1

Well, he's, uh, he's very lucky to have some nice retirement plans. Um, coming up to look forward to when you're, um. I suppose thinking about your own future with a potential next dog. Um, is there anything that you're kind of planning to do? Um, yeah. With this, with your new companion.

13:29S3

Getting ahead of time.

13:32S2

Yeah. Just, uh, the same as what I've done with Evan. Um, I must have done everything right, because he's always been happy and getting to know the routines. And I'll have the dog used to the routine that I did with Evan, um, and do the same old, um, working routes, uh, walking tracks build up their fitness because you got to do it gradually. Because when I had Evan fitter than him. So I had to slowly build him up with my pace. And they're still young and they're still growing because Goldens, um, don't start to mature till about three and a half and he's still filling out and all that sort of stuff. So the new dog, I'll do the same. And, you know, um, gradually build up their fitness to the good level. Um, and then, yeah, we'll be doing bushwalking tracks. Um, go to the Melbourne Aquarium, Amesbury, which is lovely. Loch nice dog park, their walking areas as well. Shopping centres. Uh, beach holidays like I did with Evan. Um, and that's really good for building strength for the dogs legs and salt. Water's good for the skin. And also. So I'll be doing the same. And the new dog will have the same good life as well.

14:42S1

So just to kind of finish off, is there anything that you would like to share with the listeners about? Um, yeah. Well, about anything kind of seeing eye dogs um, or. Yeah, anything that, um, that you would like to share.

14:56S2

Um, just look to, you know, um, if people can put it out there, um, to help promote, because you do need puppy carers, and it's an amazing gift that you can do for someone like myself with low vision, um, to give independence and enrich our lives. Because without the dogs, where would we be without them?

15:20S1

Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show. I'm looking forward to finding out who you get matched with. Um, probably either with the puppy care or in training right now. How exciting.

15:31S2

It is very exciting. I'm looking forward to it. And, um, getting to know the new dog and they'll test me out as they do. But that's the exciting part as well, of getting to know each other and start up another chapter of a new journey. And thank you for having me.

15:50S1

You've been listening to the auto show on Virgin Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Shelley talking about her singing duck Evan. In recognition of National Golden Retriever Day on February 3rd. Now I'm going to be joined by Brooke Anderson, Senior Dogs instructor, talking about equipment that we can use for seeing eye dogs and dog guides. This is a repeat, but a great episode that talks a little bit about some of the choices that a handler can make when working their dog. Thank you for listening to the Single Dog show. Hi Brooke, thanks for joining me on the show today.

16:18S3

No, thanks for having me.

16:20S1

So we are going to talk a little bit about some of the equipment that that you use or that clients will use out with their seeing eye dog. So I'm going to start off with what is seeing dogs standard harness like.

16:34S3

So seeing eye dog harness that we currently um issue as a standard um, is a fabric sort of panel that goes from the left side of the dog to the right and on the back of the dog there, it has sort of a yellow patch that says, seeing eye dogs to give you the identification side. Um, it has a strap that goes around, um, the chest of the dog, and that's a reflective panel. So it has some stitching in there. Um, for if calves do at nighttime, um, their light shine on them, and then it has one strap that goes under the belly side. And that's just to make sure it doesn't shift around. Um, in terms of the handle, um, the handle clip up on the left and right side of the dog. Um, and it can be of various lengths depending on the height of the person. So it is a metal handle, um, with a sign, uh, on it as well that says, please do not distract me. Um, which again gives that identification.

17:37S1

What is included in a standard Seeing Dogs client pack, which is given out, I guess, during class or client training.

17:45S3

Yeah, so when a client starts training, they do get an additional equipment pack. Um, and that's just to set the dog up for the sort of, um, first little bit of working. It will cover things such as a dog bowl. They won't really appreciate if we don't give that one over. It's their most important thing. If you ask the dog, um, a measuring cup and dog whistle. So that's again, all feeding related. We also give, um, two grooming brushes, um, so that they can be groomed regularly. Uh, a lead, uh, seeing eye, dog harness, a dog bed and a spare dog bed cover, um, so that they can be washed regularly. Um, it also covers. Uh, dog boots for clients who require them, and Nyla Bone, which is for enrichment so that they can chew on. And then also a tether as well. Um, so that once they're trying to acclimatize to a house, we can sort of help them with their with that.

18:45S1

So I think the seeing eye dog leads that are offered to clients are those double clipped ones. Why do you use those leads that have the two clips on the ends?

18:56S3

Yeah. So in terms of the dog leads that we use, um, so they do double up on each other. Um, and the reason for that is once you unclip one end, it becomes one long lead. Um, the long lead is for things such as toileting, um, with the dogs. Giving them more space means that they, um, have more sort of opportunity to go, um, on the space that you've designated that's also can be used as a makeshift tether, um, as well, if required. The shorter lead is when we're guiding and also walking. So it means that you have a little bit more control over the dog. Um, because they're not, you know, nearly a meter in front of you. They're right beside you on a shorter lead. Um, so it just gives more options, uh, when sort of working, um, and toileting your dog.

19:45S1

Should you always or do you always walk work the dog with a lead as well, not just holding the harness.

19:52S3

Yeah. Correct. So we always have a lead, um, attached to the dog as well as the harness. So when the client is working, they'll hold the harness in their left hand and the lead is just tucked under the fingers that are holding on to the hand. Or the reason that we need the lead, um, in this situation is because if a client gets to a cafe and needs to pay, they can drop the seeing eye dog handle and hold on to the lead. Um, which is a little it's not as rigid as the handle. And so it gives you a little bit more flexibility to get things such as your wallet and everything. The other reason that we need the lead, um, is because if we do need to take off a harness at any point, such as toileting, we have a method of still, um, maintaining control of the dog. Uh, and we also need the lead for things such as direction, uh, distractions. And so if the dog does become distracted, we can use the lead to support them to get past that.

20:45S1

So we talk a little bit about we spoke a bit about harnesses before. What are the other types of harnesses that are available and why might you use one over the other?

20:56S3

There are different harnesses out there now. And so what we sort of have, we have the sort of traditional leather style hand harness, um, with a lot of style handle. Um, so some clients prefer that one. Um. The other. That one has an easier handle removal mechanism. And so some people prefer that if they are regularly traveling, um, in and out of smaller cars and things. Um, so that's an option as to why someone might look at that. The leather harness also can be used for dogs that are a little bit more body sensitive. And so, um, the handle, uh, is designed to sit just above their back and not on their back. And so some dogs are a little bit more comfortable in that. Um, the other harness that we have is a unique fly one. Um, and that one is, um, it has a fabric body piece and has a single bar handle. So instead of, um, the harness handle being sort of having to post, um, uh, it only has one single, um, connection to the harness, that one sometimes it was originally designed as a running harness. Um, but now people are using it, um, for everyday harness, um, use ergonomic reasons, but also sometimes for hiking purposes as well.

22:18S1

Is that the one where the handle is kind of, um, I guess to the side it's like vertical rather than horizontal.

22:26S3

Correct. Yeah. So that one, um, there's a little bit more flexibility in the length that the handle itself offers. Um, and positioning as well. Um, there are also with the leather handles you can get um, ergonomic handles which are slightly offset. And so some people find that a little bit more comfortable, and especially if there are, um, secondary sort of conditions such as arthritis. Um, we may explore something like that.

22:52S1

So how can you discuss the harness that is right for you with your instructor?

22:58S3

So usually, um, it's a we do it in two ways. So it's what's right for the client and then what's also right for the dog as well. So there will be situations where the dog may be body sensitive. And so we need to ensure for their well-being. We're issuing a harness that they're comfortable in. Um, in the case where any harness sort of the dog is happy with, we can always explore with the client, um, various options. Um, we also do have. Sorry, I did miss one before the Juliet harness. Um, and that one is sort of a combination. It's a between what our standard harness is and, um, the leather. Um, Susannah. Um, it's. Yeah, sort of a hybrid of the two. Um, and so we can also explore that option. It's a brown just, um, sort of raising it with your instructor. Um, we can bring out various ones and have a look at sort of what might be right for you and your dog.

23:53S1

So you mentioned before in the kind of class pack or the client pack, um, that some handles will use boots for their dogs. Why might some handlers use boots for the dogs and and I guess others not.

24:06S3

It could be, um, really helpful for some clients who are traveling regularly in hot weather where the path might be too hot to work the dog if they weren't using boots. Um, other situations where clients might use boots are, um, in areas where they might be asked to walk and grass that have been added. Um, and so it can protect from, um, from them getting bindings within their pool. Uh, and it can also help, um, sometimes in cooler environments as well. Um, where the dogs might have to sort of walk on cold patches of ice and things depending on the area that people live in. In terms of boots, um, it's very much handler choice. Some clients, um, if they're not walking in the hot weather, the dogs don't require the boot. Um, the only thing to be aware of dog boots is that if clients are using them, um, that they constantly put them on them in the months that aren't summer as well, because the dogs are desensitized to them. Um, but if we don't maintain that, then and then we're only using them once a year, then they get a, you know, they're quite shocked by putting them on. Um, once you do put them on for the first.

25:15S1

Time, they, they get unused to them during, during the winter months.

25:19S3

Yeah, exactly. And they're like, oh, I've done 11 months without these. What are these boots again? So we do recommend that clients still put them on during the month that, um, they don't require them just to keep up that training.

25:30S1

And I suppose in that type of thing, it's just kind of putting them on, having a bit of a party, walking around a bit and then making it positive.

25:37S3

Exactly. Yeah. So it's, um, it can be just doing their regular route in dog boots so it doesn't have to be hot for them to wear them, um, during the winter months. Um, and it can just be, you know, doing, um, doing a walk around the house as well. So, yeah, it can be, um, whatever sort of works for the client.

25:55S1

So another kind of piece of equipment that I have heard asked about a little bit is, um, for some of those travellers, some of those handlers that are on the go and they are travelling, would you recommend something like a travel mat for a dog to lie on?

26:09S4

Yeah. So people are travelling regularly.

26:11S3

There are travel mats that fold up pretty small. Um, some of them also have sort of a handle that you can put over a shoulder or put over luggage and things like that, which make, um, pretty handy. They can be, um, helpful when traveling because it gives the dog a very set location that you want them to lie. Um, and so in new areas, um, it's a known sort of behaviour that they are aware of to do. So if you say bed, you've, you know, found one, they can take themselves off to it. You can also leave them there. And often they feel pretty safe and secure on their bed. Um, the other reason you can use a travel mat, um, is some people use them when on the planes instead of the sort of absorbent mats that they give you. Um, and it can mean that they don't move around as much as well. So various options that people can sort of explore.

27:01S1

Do you have any that you have kind of encountered that you would recommend over others?

27:05S4

So they all sort.

27:06S3

Of serve the same purpose. So I think it's more just looking at one that works for you. Um, some roll up, some zip up. Um, I think it's just around what type of travel you do and where it's going to be the least inconvenience in terms of space. Um, and then if you do need things like a handle to ensure that, you know, it can just go over your shoulder. Um, just taking into consideration things, um, that might make your life easier.

27:31S1

Are there any other pieces of equipment to consider as a handler?

27:36S4

Um, in.

27:36S3

Terms of equipment, um, some clients that, uh, regularly travel at night time, I'd often recommend looking into, um, putting a light either on themselves, on their backpack, or at least the dog, um, just to give a little bit of visibility to the team. Uh, that can sometimes clients have a second collar that they put on, the ones that sort of light up. So that's also an option if, um. Uh. If lights on a backpack or on on other parts of the dog's body aren't an option. Um, equipment wise, there's also, um, we do also have raincoats, but some clients prefer getting something a little bit warmer if they live in really cold climates. Um, if the dog's working, I wouldn't get something that's too thick because you don't want them to sweat, so you'd want to get something that's on the thinner end, um, but still provides that protection. But other than that, most of the equipment is provided in, um, the equipment pack that we initially issue. Um, the big one would sort of probably be the visibility side of things at nighttime.

28:42S1

And, and kind of I think based on, on your recommendation, we've got an at coming on the show talking about technology. So thank you for your recommendation with that. That will be a good one.

28:51S3

Yeah. Anytime.

28:52S1

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking equipment with me.

28:56S4

No.

28:56S3

Anytime. Thank you for having me.

29:04S1

You've been listening to The Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews with Shelley about her singer dog, Evan, and with Brooke Anderson, senior dogs instructor, about equipment that dog guide handlers and single hook users can use. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you'd like to find out more about seeing dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website visionaustralia.org - and don't forget to tune in at same time next week for another episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio.