00:11 S1
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. On this episode of the show, I'm going to be joined by Seeing Eye Dogs volunteer breeder carer Beth McLeod talking about her life and story as a volunteer. Beth is an active woman and a lecturer at Australian Catholic University, or ACU, and carer to find out about life of a dog on our breeding program and how Beth cares for Carmel while working at a university.
We're looking for more breeder carers in select regions of Melbourne, listed on our website at SED dot Vision Australia dot org dot AU. Australian breeder carers like Beth take on dogs over one year old accepted into the breeding colony who were selected for their lovely natures and the volunteers maintain their manners whilst they are part of the breeding program, as well as providing them with a loving home and... some pats and cuddles. These dogs may then go on themselves to become seeing eye dogs after their role in the breeding program. So it's a very special volunteer role to take care of these beautiful mums and dads.
After chatting with Beth, I'm going to play a repeat of an interview with Chris Edwards, general manager of corporate affairs and advocacy at Vision Australia Radio, with some quick advocacy and access tips for seeing eye, dog and dog guide handlers. And now keep listening to hear about Beth and Carmel's life together. Hi Beth, thank you for joining me on the show today.
01:47 S2
Thanks for having me, Harriet.
01:48 S1
So just to start off, could you please introduce yourself?
01:51 S2
Sure. I'm an active female in my early 40s, and I live in Hawthorn. I love to travel, I love adventure, and I love being outside in nature.
02:01 S1
You are also a staff at ACU. Could you tell us a bit about what your role is at Australian Catholic University?
02:08 S2
Terrific. Thank you. Yes. So I'm a lecturer there. I mainly teach in sport and exercise science. And my responsibilities include teaching the students in practical subjects, including sports coaching and physical education teaching. This means that I get to be very active in my job while sharing a healthy passion with highly motivated students, which is pretty exciting.
02:32 S1
So it ties in very well with with what you kind of do and how you identify yourself outside of work. Yes. So it's like if you do something you love, you never work a day in your life, etc., etc..
02:42 S2
Exactly right.
02:44 S1
So what is your role at Seeing Eye Dogs as a volunteer?
02:47 S2
So currently I'm involved in the breeder program. I started five years ago in 2019 as a puppy carer, and this role progressed into breeder carer when one of the dogs I cared for became a stud dog. I love dogs and I love helping others. So this particular volunteer role combines these two loves of mine in a rewarding and joyful manner.
03:10 S1
We've got like a million dogs in the studio, and when I say a million for the listeners, I actually mean three, which is quite a few dogs. So occasionally there might be some, some, some dog... movements or panting. Yeah, they all had a free run, so they're tired now. So do you remember why you started the role?
03:28 S2
The initial reason I became a puppy carer was because in 2019, SEDA came to my workplace at ACU as an inclusive organisation that supports all people. AQ have a partnership with SEDA to help raise awareness and dogs for people living with vision loss. The connection started by Mary at SEDA, who is one of the staff from our education department, and she trained the first seeing eye dog on our Melbourne campus. So there was an information session running, and one of my work mates and I had it marked down in our calendars because we both love dogs.
But on the on the particular day that the session was on, we were both flat out and she came to my office and we were both very stressed. And she's like, I don't think I've got time to go along to this session. And I said, neither do I. But that's probably the exact reason why we do need to go along. And even if we just go along and have some puppy cuddles, we'll feel better and then be more productive when we come back to our desks. And we went along to the session, and the more I heard about it, it just sounded like a really wonderful opportunity. And I signed up straight away because yeah, I learnt more about the impact of the work along with the need for carers, and I was hooked.
04:41 S1
I think it's kind of interesting sometimes, you know, you think about it as a as a dog thing. It's a dog volunteering role and then you really hear those stories or learn about, you know, I guess what it is, it's not just like raising a pet dog puppy for someone, but it is, you know, I guess our goal is so different than just looking after someone's dog.
04:59 S2
Exactly right. It's a really special purpose.
05:02 S1
So could you please introduce your current dog.
05:04 S2
I sure can. So currently I'm looking after the stunning Kamahl. He's a four year old golden retriever with a beautiful, rich gold coat that's almost a red in colour. He has the most expressive eyebrows and a big long tail that's often happily wagging away. And he will knock things off tables and that are on the edge of tables. He's literally a showstopper. Kamahl. I often get stopped in the street by people walking by, but even people in their cars as well, who stop me and shout out about how good looking he is. But I think Kamahl is a little bit vain because he's aware of how good looking he is. When I go to the gym like a muscle man, he spends the entire time staring at himself in the mirror.
So I've been caring for Kamahl for two years now. He was raised in Mornington for the first two years of his life by the very experienced puppy raiser, who's currently looking after her eighth seeing eye dog at the moment.
06:04 S1
I think the, the important thing to remember about the lovely Kamahl and how handsome he is, is it? That's not even the reason that he was picked for breeding. He actually has a very nice other qualities besides his looks, doesn't he?
06:15 S2
He does. He's very well trained. And that's why it's worth mentioning Jane as well. She did a fantastic job of raising him as a pup. He just. He would really make someone a wonderful guard dog or seeing eye dog and a companion dog as well... because he just has such a lovely nature and he likes to follow all the rules, and he has a really calm and relaxed style too.
06:42 S1
So what is the kind of day in the life of you and Kamahl together? You know, a breeding dog doesn't just, you know, sit around in a kennel all day, do they?
06:49 S2
No. Absolutely not. It's one of the great things about being a breeder carer is that the dogs wear the coat and have the same access rights as the pups, which is pretty awesome. So typically we walk to the to the gym in the morning before work, and then we walk into the office after we've been to the gym. If the weather is nice. If it's not, we can catch public transport in. Once we're in the office, Kamahl will say good morning to everyone else in the office and he spends then most of his day napping underneath my desk or directly behind my chair so that I can't move at all during the day.
When I'm teaching, he comes to classes with me. This includes all of my practical classes. During the classes, Kamahl just sits off to the side and typically falls asleep, which I've learned not to take too much offense to. But the practical classes are really good training for the seeing eye dogs because they're not allowed to chase balls, and in my sessions, we're regularly throwing multiple different shaped odd balls around, and often a stray ball will head in their direction, and he and the other pups have learned to ignore the balls and leave them alone, which is a great response from the seeing eye dogs.
07:59 S1
I think it's a good tie in from one of the last interviews that I did with Ollie Fanshawe, who actually has a half sibling of Kamahl in Sadie. And Sadie spends a lot of time by a tennis court while Ollie is practicing his blind tennis or or blind cricket.
08:15 S2
Yeah. Perfect. And then we break up our day with little training opportunities for Carmel and a chance for him to practice and continue developing his high levels of skills. He really likes the stimulation and the brain training these opportunities provide. Then at the end of our work day, we walk home and he generally crashes and goes to bed pretty early.
08:37 S1
I mean, after a big day of the gym and then work and all of that stimulation, I'm not surprised that he's tired.
08:46 S2
Don't be fooled, though, Harriet. He does spend most of that time sleeping.
08:51 S1
It's important to take good breaks, especially when you have to sit there working hard.
08:54 S2
Exactly right.
08:56 S1
So, I mean, I think you've told us a little bit about what he gets up to at uni. How have you found the experience of bringing him to ASIO? I know you said there's quite good policies in place so that you are quite welcome.
09:09 S2
Yeah, absolutely. ACU is a very inclusive university. They welcome all people regardless of their background, age, sex, gender, religious beliefs, culture or even level ability. And as part of that, they're also inclusive of working dogs on campus. And so yeah, we have a policy welcoming all working dogs and dogs in training. And as a result, Kamahl engages in all aspects of uni life, including attending classes, graduation ceremonies, award nights, open days, orientation activities. He comes to all first aid, call outs, meetings, conferences, barbecues and he even comes with me to our media studio where we record lectures. He pretty much knows the campus better than most, and he can navigate his way around the busy hallways and rooms with confidence and ease at ACU.
I should also mention that we that we have a wonderful community engagement policy as well, which allows staff to take up to five days a year of leave to engage in community service activities. So Carmel will also have visits on campus from his breeding operations officer, Brittany, which allows him to do some skills training in and around the campus with her and with other seeing eye dogs, which is a great opportunity to train the dogs in the education setting, but also a great way to raise awareness and increase the inclusivity of people who experience vision loss.
10:34 S1
It sounds like he's probably a bit of a celebrity. And what do the students think of Kamahl in their lectures and their practicals in all of their classes?
10:42 S2
Are the students absolutely love having a seeing eye dog in class? They know they cannot interact with him when when he's got his coat on, but I will often take it off at the end of class so they can say hi, which both Kamahl and the students love. The dogs also feature as a highlight in the end of semester student reviews of the units, and they will often receive gifts from the students to thank them for being in their classes and to wish them well on their journey, which is very sweet.
11:10 S1
Are there gifts for him?
11:11 S2
Yeah. Gifts for the dogs? Yeah, they're very spoilt.
11:15 S1
Okay, so not not like... you know, poor [?Seco].
11:18 S2
No, unfortunately, no. But... carrots feature quite heavily because the dogs love a frozen carrot. And the students are often impressed that that's their favourite treat.
11:29 S1
And as someone that is kind of in the, you know, exercise and fitness space, I assume that gets your tick of approval, you know?
11:35 S2
Absolutely. I just wish that I was as excited and thrilled by a frozen carrot as a treat, as the seeing eye dogs were.
11:44 S1
I mean, I like carrots and all, but I think the frozen bit might hurt my teeth more than anything else. So I actually do laugh sometimes. One of my, you know, something that I really like is... like kind of satay sauce with, like, carrot sticks, but the dogs are like, That's carrots for us. And that's peanut butter.
12:03 S2
So that's a double trick.
12:05 S1
Are you just going to sit there and eat that without sharing? So what do you like the most or find the most rewarding about sharing?
12:13 S2
I really love being able to help other people through the dogs. People with vision loss. It's a really rewarding role to be able to help train a dog on part of its journey to help someone with a vision loss, but also the community connections that you're able to make. It's really expanded my world and community in more ways than I ever thought possible. I've made some really wonderful friends out of the local carers and people that I've met through fostering other dogs as well, which is just such a wonderful experience. I even travelled overseas with a couple of girls a few years ago who I met through seeing eye dog caring as well.
12:55 S1
Oh, that's really nice. I mean, that's big friendship to go on an international trip together that's make or break stuff.
13:01 S3
Mm. Absolutely.
13:03 S2
They're really special people, I find - the other, people that are seeing eye dog carers.
13:06 S1
And you did mention you also have been doing a bit of relief care or foster. Foster care too. So it's not just like one dog in the house either sometimes.
13:15 S2
No that's right. We often have 2 or 3 is the most I've had. I don't think I would put my hand up again for three, but with a breeding dog, it's easier to have a pup because Kamahl is so beautifully trained. And he will help guide some of the younger pups and teach them the ropes, which makes things a little bit easier for you as the carer.
13:35 S1
It's probably quite nice too, because, you know, it's almost like he's probably getting a taste of his own medicine. If Jane had other dogs in the home, I feel like she might have had a release dog she might have told us about. And so, you know, Kamahl being a pest, probably as a puppy as they all are now just getting his own back.
13:48 S2
Exactly right.
13:50 S1
We like to not just talk sunshine and rainbows, I guess. And there's, you know, definitely parts of caring that can be quite challenging. There's definitely a bit of work. What do you find the most challenging about breeder caring?
14:00 S2
I think there's less structure with the having a breeding dog and knowing what's happening when the dogs are needed at the kennels or in the breeding center is dependent on what females they're matched with and at what point that female is in their cycle, which is not something that can be controlled or really overly planned for. So you need to be ready at all times with the stud and get them to the breeding center within 24 hours of getting a call. And yeah, there's obviously little advance warning about that. So that's probably the most challenging aspect from the male perspective, having to stop everything and get them to the girls in time for their match.
14:41 S1
It's quite scary how quick these things happen to. There really is no planning. If it's Christmas Day, it's Christmas Day. You know?
14:47 S2
Exactly right.
14:49 S1
So do you have any messages for anyone considering breeding caring?
14:53 S2
Sure. Well, I think being a breeder carer is very rewarding. It's a great volunteer role as you get you get to work with a mature, fully trained dog. The Seeing Eye Dogs breeding team are very supportive and will guide you through the process. So if you're considering it, I highly encourage anyone to do it, especially for people who live alone. For anyone who lives in an apartment, if you're highly active, or if you're someone that has a full time job, particularly in a corporate workspace, makes life a little bit easier with a breed of dog.
15:25 S1
The puppies we love, it's a very different kind of lifestyle thing, so it's nice that you've got a few different options for anyone who's considering considering caring. But really good points about about the the age does make a bit of a difference sometimes. So is there anything else that might. Just to finish off, surprise the public about caring for a breeding dog?
15:45 S2
Well, I sort of touched on this before, but basically they have the same access rights as the pups in training so they can join you in all aspects of your day to day life. And basically they add joy and adventure to everything that you do, which includes the mundane things like going to the supermarket, and all of a sudden they become a fun outing with a breeding dog by your side. So yeah, I highly encourage anyone to do it because it is a really rewarding role and it makes life a fun adventure.
16:16 S1
Your last dog, Vincent. Can you tell us a bit about what happened with him after his breeding career?
16:22 S3
Yeah, sure.
16:23 S2
Vincent is well, he was my first breeder boy, and I had him for two and a half years. It was... I thought it was going to be very hard to say goodbye to Vincent. And it was. I cried for weeks after I knew that he was going to go. But then I got the beautiful Kamahl, which... he managed to fill some of that void. But Vincent is now working as a seeing eye dog, and he lives with a wonderful lady who he takes to the shops and does all sorts of things with. I spoke to her recently on the phone, and it sounds like he's a really central part of their life and enjoying being a guide to someone who needs it, which is really a wonderful thing to hear about your dog that's gone on to become a working dog.
And he also has a number of pups who've gone out to work or have now become breeding dogs as well. So his legacy lives on, which is really special.
17:17 S1
I think it's a really cool thing to have been part of that. You know, he's had so much like a double career, which is kind of exciting. But I always think for you it must have been a quite rewarding experience to see him fulfil both of those exciting roles.
17:30 S2
Absolutely. He's always got a special place in my heart, Vincent.
17:34 S1
Yeah, and filling the kind of void with Kamala's good, because they're actually very different looking dogs. You know, you've gone from a small black to a quite large, dark golden, so there's no comparison, just kind of having another one to help you on your way.
17:46 S2
Exactly right. The only other probably comparison would be the hair. Oh my gosh. Different types of hair. The black hair versus the golden retriever hair. There's no more adhesive fibre in the world than golden retriever here, I've learned.
17:59 S1
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your life story, and also for the work that you've done with all the dogs.
18:06 S2
Absolutely. It has been my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Harriet.
18:15 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Beth McLeod. If you'd like to find out about puppy caring or breeder caring with us, please head to our website at Sydney, Australia. Volunteer. Please note, breeder caring is only available in selected regions of Victoria listed on our website, and puppy caring is available in select regions of New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria. This ensures that our volunteers are able to get the training and support by dedicated staff at locations convenient for them. We also provide the food, equipment and other veterinary costs.
To wrap up this week's show, here's a repeat of some advocacy and access tips for seeing eye, dog and dog eyed handlers from Seeing Eye Dogs handler and corporate affairs and advocacy manager at Vision Australia, Chris Edwards. I hope you enjoy. Hi, Chris, thanks for joining me on the show.
19:20 S3
Terrific. Always great to be here, Harriet.
19:22 S1
Do you have any tips for flying with your dog guide?
19:26 S3
Yeah, like I think there's a few quick tips that I would say is firstly, ensure that you've got your paperwork in order, particularly when flying. It's really important that you carry your card that your your dog's wearing an ID tag. And you know when you're going through the airport just, you know, help staff by explaining, you know, what works for you and it should be a better experience. One of the key things I do on the plane now, so you'll be required to hire your dog to the metal of the seat these days all airlines. And so I sometimes find that the dog gets a bit tangled in that. And so one of the tricks that I often do now is loop it through the middle of the seat. And then if the if the lead is long enough to loop it also around the seat belt, and therefore the part of the lead is up high, which stops the dog getting tangled. And it also, yeah, you've got ability to be able to control the dog through that process.
20:22 S1
Do you ever sleep on the airplane when you have the dog?
20:24 S3
Certainly I do. I think that, you know, my dog is very used to flying. I think that the other key thing is to ensure that you limit the water before going on the plane. So be very conscious about when the dog's toileted, you know, obviously don't starve the dog of water, but try and avoid it having, you know, a really big drink so that it feels like it needs to go on the on the plane.
20:47 S1
We don't need kind of that drinking for fun type of thing that some labs in particular love.
20:52 S3
Yeah that's right. And so instead of so be you know, very conscious of that.
20:57 S1
Do you have any tips for booking accommodation when you're travelling out and about in Australia?
21:02 S3
Look, you know, I think this is one of those things about what people are comfortable with. So certainly there's no requirement under the law that you need to notify the accommodation in advance. And I think that, you know, certainly as far as big hotels go, you would very rarely receive a problem. And if you do obviously just escalate that through to to a manager. What we're seeing where there's greater issues is within Airbnb etc.. And so, you know, most of the time I still wouldn't notify the the accommodation in advance. But, you know, I think that if you want to completely avoid any issues, there's certainly that option to to let them know that you'll be bringing a seeing eye dog in. Under the legislation, you're allowed to do that.
The thing that I sort of always think about is that dogs are unfortunately, Labradors do drop a fair bit of hair. And so one of the of the things that we would often do at the end of staying at a place is just staying there for a period of time is to maybe do just a quick sweep around, just to take up the bulk of the hair. It's not doing the cleanest job for them, but just because then it'll be a lot more like standard sort of mess that anyone else would do, rather than sort of having big lumps of hair. But yeah, that is an optional thing, but I think it just avoids someone coming back and saying, hold up, there's an excess of hair and you're going to be charged an additional cleaning fee, which they're not allowed to do. But I just find that that works and it very rarely I get raised a problem.
22:34 S1
I guess it's one of those things, whether you need to or not, it's nice for someone to then hopefully next time a handler comes across go, well, they don't leave hair. They don't. It was perfectly behaved. Whereas potentially if you've got a bit of hair, they might unfortunately be a little bit less impressed.
22:52 S3
And I think that, you know, and it is important that under the law you do need to have your dog groomed so you know your dog's well groomed to avoid dropping, you know, as much hair. I think that's really important when you're staying in other premises. But, you know, sometimes it is worth telling the accommodation that you that you have got a dog. So I know I stay in a hotel in Canberra and when I stay there they supply a very fancy dog bed for, for Eva and a water bowl, and it creates a really great experience.
23:21 S1
Do you have any tips for handlers eating out with their seeing eye dogs or dog guides?
23:26 S3
Look, I think... the key thing is just restaurants are often very crowded and busy places. And, you know, I think it's to be very conscious of where you should sit at the table and try and have your dog underneath your chair where possible, because it is a bit embarrassing for everybody. If someone continues to trip over a dog or stand on a dog. And so I think that, you know, I think it's up to the handler to be very conscious of, you know, people need to move around restaurants and that if you set a great example of having your dog under the seat and not where possible, it just makes a better experience for all, including the dog.
24:03 S1
From my experience, especially with the black dog, sometimes, you know, even if the chair is not long enough or the table's a bit difficult and they can't get fully under, the staff just can't see them. So I'm always very, very mindful as a volunteer that I do get the kind of the seat by the window or by the wall out in the corner as much as possible. And I find that makes things easier for me at least.
24:25 S3
Yeah, 100%. It is very clear that, you know, you are allowed in all restaurants. And so if somebody in the restaurant is saying you're not allowed to bring your pet in here, my experience is the really key thing is stay calm, explain the situation that it's not a pet and that it is a service animal. And they do have the right. And look, you know, I think that using those escalation points again is to say, Well, can I please speak to the manager. We'll often resolve those issues - where it doesn't, speak to your guide dog mobility instructor. And certainly, you know, they might be able to support a letter to try and help change the attitude of that and remind them of what the law is.
25:05 S1
Are there any tips that you have on point to point transport? So taxi or rideshare?
25:09 S3
Look, I think, you know, some of the points are very similar is that when I'm booking a rideshare or a taxi on an app, one of the key things I do is take a screenshot every time and then. So that means we've got all the driver details, we've got all the vehicle details. So if something does go wrong, you've got a record of that to be able to make a complaint through the booking service or to the regulator. The other key thing is when a driver does come up, stay calm. Explain it. Key thing that they'll be talking about, particularly with Uber because Uber has got an Uber pet, is to be very clear on that it's not a pet. And remind the drivers that they would have done training explains the access of assistance animals. It is Uber policy. It is the law.
And then the other thing that I find works a lot, and I know that it's up to individuals about what works for them. Putting your seeing eye dog in the back seat, where you push the front passenger seat forward, and you hop in and have the dog sits behind the passenger seat and you sit behind the driver's seat. Yeah, that often just creates that level of distance between the dog and the driver and provides those drivers that are a bit nervous about dogs. I find that that also helps limit refusals. So yeah, there's a few things that you can do yourself to try and limit it. But when you do experience a refusal, be sure to report it to the booking service and report it to your state regulator.
26:39 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews with volunteer breeder Kara Beth McLeod and with Chris Edwards, General Manager of Corporate Affairs and Advocacy at Vision Australia Radio.
If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at Vision Australia. To find out more about caring, you can head to that website. Or you can tune in to more carer and staff stories on the show's podcast on your preferred podcast platform, or you can head to an upcoming information session. Our next one is online on Tuesday the 30th of January, 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time. That is listed on the website at Australian Volunteer Information Sessions. Or you can just type Seeing Eye Dogs Caring volunteer into your search engine and let Google do the rest. Register on the website for the meeting link.
For more information on the advocacy department at Vision Australia and some handy advocacy resources, you can visit the website at Vision Australia, About Us for advocacy. Or you can listen to the other podcast featuring Chris, which is on your preferred podcast platform on this show. If you are blind or have low vision and are interested in learning about becoming a handler, you can email us at info at logo or give our friendly team a call on 1800 037 773. That number again. 1-800-037-773 to chat about dog guide, mobility assessment or eligibility. More episodes of this and other Great Vision Australia radio shows are available on our Omni FM platform or your preferred podcast provider. Thank you for listening and have a lovely week.
