00:11 S1
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I've got two interviews for you. The first is with Assistance Dogs International - the Executive Director, Chris Diefenthaler. She's going to be talking to us about the work of Assistance Dogs International, what the standards mean for our handlers, and a bit about that organisation. Then I'm going to be playing part two of the interview with Dale Pierce, senior dog handler of Yana. Dale joined us last week talking about his trail running and active adventures. So we're just talking a bit about the rest of their partnership and their life together, including how seeing Eye Dogs has fit in at home with a cat.
So it's a bit of an interesting one there for anyone who's considering getting a seeing eye dog and has a pet cat as well. If you'd like to hear part one of my interview with Dale, make sure you head to your preferred podcast provider or Omni FM platform for part one of that interview. Now let's start off this episode with my interview with Chris. Hi, Chris, thank you for joining me on the show today.
01:20 S2
Great. Thank you for having me.
01:22 S1
So just to start off with, what is your role at Assistance Dogs International and what's your background in the industry?
01:29 S2
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm the Executive Director for Assistance Dogs International. I've been in the assistance dogs sector industry beginning back in 1997. So it's coming up on about 30 years. We... I was the executive director of one of our member organisations at the time, Assistance Dogs of America. I was in that role, and during that tenure I was also on the board of Assistance Dogs International. So I have been involved in RTI in many different capacities.
I was also an accreditation assessor during that time. And... I did my, my organisation did merge with an independent living agency... at the end of my tenure. And so I did do a... role with the American Red Cross for eight years... ut then had the opportunity to come back in this capacity with Assistance Dogs International, which has been a huge blessing for me to have the pleasure to do that.
02:45 S1
It's quite amazing how broad RTI is. Where are the RTI member organisations located?
02:52 S2
We have... right now, I believe it's around 168 accredited members throughout the globe, which encompasses 31 countries O/S... and we have 58 candidate organisations that are working towards becoming an accredited member. So our membership is continuing to grow... as more organisations realise how important... our membership is, to be able to say they are meeting ADI standards.
03:26 S1
Just briefly, what does it mean to be in that process of getting the accreditation? You know, what are they... doing? What does that mean?
03:34 S2
Yeah. All organisations that would like to become an ADI accredited member, they start out as... a candidate organisation, which means that they... have been training assistance dogs for a minimum of generally 1 to 3 years minimum, and they have placed at least five assistance dogs that have been working at least one year... before they could apply for candidacy. But then... during their candidacy period, which ranges from two years at a minimum to five years at a maximum, they are looking at our standards and then looking at how their organisation could meet our standards, and what changes they may have to make in their operations to meet our standards.
Because within that time frame, they will have to complete our accreditation process, which is a very comprehensive evaluation and assessment of their organisation to ensure that they are meeting ADIstandards.
04:44 S1
I was going to ask what the purpose of ADI is, and I guess as well in that, you know, what do those standards mean for both the organisations and also potential clients as well of any organisations?
04:54 S2
Absolutely. ADI standards really started in the early 1990s, and they were established to really raise the level of the operation of assistance dogs organisations globally. So... that way... members and clients looking for an assistance dog could be assured that the organisations that they were inquiring about getting a service dog from did have some standards in the quality of dog training that they're using for the training of their dogs, as well as client ethics in how they are treated... from the organization.
And... most important also is, what kind of support can they expect from an organisation once they have received a dog? And one of our standards is that the the organisation must support the team for the lifetime of the dog... because dogs and people are ever-changing throughout their lifetime together as a partnership.
06:04 S1
So it's quite reassuring really, when you think about that, that any of the schools you know as well for, for anyone else, you know, whether you're a client or even a volunteer or someone who's, you know, thinking about supporting... an organisation that, you know, those standards really mean that everyone is doing what they should... and striving for the best outcomes - which is... cool.
06:24 S2
Yeah, absolutely. And that's really what organisations want to as well. They want to show that their organisation is training very high quality assistance dogs and that they are meeting standards. So it is a little bit of a... celebration for them when an organisation is able to successfully complete the accreditation process, because then they are awarded almost immediate credibility, that ADI has the global reputation for these standards, that they can say that they are meeting those standards.
07:02 S1
And how is ADI staffed and resourced? How do you do the work that you do?
07:06 S2
Yeah, we are a member-driven organisation, which means that our members are very engaged and involved in the mission of ADI. And really, the work is done by our member organisations. We have actually a very small staff of five full-time staff that are around the globe. But our members, all the work is done in primarily within our boards, within our regional councils, and then in our committees. And those members that are involved in those type of activities are really helping to drive the organisation and implementing many of the benefits to being an accredited member, as well as the advocacy that ADI supports to help... our members, graduates, in their navigating the challenges they experience while using their assistance dog out in public.
08:08 S1
When we talk about advocacy, you really do find as a global challenge. I mean, actually, it's interesting in talking to... we had a... AD Oceania conference at Seeing Eye Dogs recently. And I think talking to the members, you realise how similar we all are. And, you know, whether you're located in, you know, I mean, for us, Asia or New Zealand or Australia or on the other side of the world, a lot of the challenges that we face are the same. It's quite fascinating.
08:37 S2
Yeah. And actually, ADI, we were originally structured that the regional councils took the role of have of advocating on behalf of the graduates in their region because the legislative laws tended to be regional and any cultural issues could be handled on a regional basis. Whereas over the past I would say five eight years, the changes that have happened globally that have really impacted our graduate teams and their experiences when they're out in public, have now become really more globally focused.
So across the globe, we're seeing access issues. We're seeing dogs that are maybe ill-trained and they're out in public and they're not acting appropriately out in public. They're lunging at other dogs, they're barking, they're carrying on. And those are really disruptive behaviours to dogs, to handlers, and their trained assistance dog. And so that has become a global concern. So ADI last year actually formed an international National Advocacy Committee to really look at those global issues, so we can help drive change by doing maybe some campaigns, awareness campaigns... legislative issues, trying to be a part of the solution, to really help our graduates deal with the barriers that they experience out in public.
10:16 S1
I guess that's that fake assistance dog piece.
10:20 S2
Yeah, we kind of have two different categories for that. One I think is more common is really the ill-trained, meaning the the dog is not a fake, meaning it probably in the person's viewpoint is their assistance dog... but maybe the dog just doesn't have the proper training, maybe the the right temperament to really be working out in public. And... so the dog is being disruptive and acting out when they are in the public... because of the stresses of the environment... versus someone that would be a fake assistance dog, is someone that is just passing off their pet dog as a service dog, and they really don't have a disability. That certainly does happen, but I think the the problems really arise more from an ill-trained than a... fake one.
11:11 S1
We've probably covered this a little bit, but how does the work of ADI benefit assistance dogs users worldwide?
11:19 S2
Again, I've kind of already mentioned some of it, but the... confidence that when they are dealing with an ADI-accredited member, that that organisation has proven that they are meeting ADI standards. So it is a very high quality organisation that they can expect to be dealing with, an organisation that's ethical and... is concerned about dog welfare and animal health, as well as... have client ethics and values that are meaningful and are implemented within their organisation.
As well as that, ADI also then supports our members and helping with the big picture of the advocacy, which I just mentioned. So we are there, helping to alleviate and/or improve the quality of our graduate dogs and the rights that they have while working out in public.
12:19 S1
And just to finish off, is there anything else that you would like to share with our listeners about ADI?
12:26 S2
Other than just that, you know, we are here to work together with everybody. Collaboration. We are a small organisation in staffing, but we have... a lot of numbers in our members, and we have a very collaborative environment within ADI, and we look for collaboration outside of ADI. Because it really is something that to really make the changes and to improve the quality, we do need to collaborate with our partners and agencies and other organisations that value assistance dogs and assistance dogs partnerships, to really make it a better place for people that are living with disabilities.
13:12 S1
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and all of the work that you and the team at ADI do.
13:17 S2
Well, thank you very much, Harriet. I enjoyed being here. And... again, thanks a lot for inviting us.
13:29 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Chris Diefenthaler, Executive director of Assistance Dogs International. If you'd like to find out more about ADI, you can head to their website at Assistance Dogs International.
Now I'm going to be playing part two of my interview with Seeing Eye Dogs handler Dale Pierce. We're going to be talking about his partnership with Yana and how she settled in at home. For part one of that interview, you can head to your preferred podcast platform or Omnia FM platform to hear about Dale's active adventures and the start of their partnership. I hope you enjoy and thank you for listening.
I think one of the things that a lot of people probably who listen to the show would, would know, but some members of the general public, they do not think that the dogs get very much affection or of off duty time or, you know, I mean, as a puppy carer, I get the comments of, well, they don't really get much fun, do they? I'm like, Oh, it's all fun.
14:26 S3
I would say that. Yeah. So I guess the easiest way I think is, Yana probably only works for 2 to 3 hours a day in most days. Those days, if I go to Melbourne, she's on for the whole day sort of thing, so we know that. But a general day, like I've been to the shops this morning, it was an hour and a half return trip. I've got to go out again this afternoon and tonight she'll work probably about 5 or 6 hours tonight. So probably an eight hour day today... tomorrow may only be a couple of hours. The rest of the time, she's got two toys. She plays in the backyard. She... loves our cat. A little too much for our cat to say, but she is quite adorable. She'll lay in the sun, she'll have a nap.
She does what she does as a dog. And she is very much a dog. At the end of the day, she's a Lab that bounds around the house and loves life and wags her tail at everything she can and all those things. So for those that think it is all work, it's far from it. So it's... a very wonderful thing to see the difference in how she acts as well. And everyone comments that those are in both lights. They see her working, you know, she's so good and all this. And then they see her at home and go, she's just a dog. And it's like, Well yeah, you know, she... that's what she is. She's a dog.
15:43 S1
She's still and she's still kind of a young dog. You know, she's still very much a baby when you think about some pet dogs, pet Labradors, they're... pretty chaotic until eight, eight years old, you know?
15:55 S3
Yeah. Don't tell me that.
15:57 S1
No, no. But, you know, our dogs are different. They... well, you know, I mean, the fact that she can, you know, do the work that she does is is a pretty good testament to the fact that she's not, like, a pet Lab.
16:06 S3
Yeah. So, yeah, she... loves having a chew toy. And her squeakers are floating around the house constantly and you know it. And she loves playing, you know, bit of a throw in the backyard and all those things so very much. She gets all the love and attention she needs. She gets all the pats and cuddles and all those things outside of work. But she knows when that harness goes on, she's... she knows it and she loves it too. So you can see, especially when it's busy. Like I notice it in in very busy situations, she's really on it and she's just Amazing. Like, you can see the bounce in her and she's. The head's on a swivel and she's... very switched on to it. Whereas if we're just walking around the park, there's so many distractions.
And because there's not much for me to ask her to do, she might just she doesn't switch off. But, you know, she'll want to have a sniff of the grass and all those things, and there's little distraction there. Not all the time. And she comes back to me working well. But, there's those little tiny distractions compared to when she's in the city where you think there's more distraction, but she's paying more attention because she really knows her job. So it's a really cool thing to to feel in the handle. But also for those around me to see as well, because I've got people that walk with me and just go, Oh, wow, she's just done x, y or whatever. And I'm just like, yeah, I know that's just what she does.
17:34 S1
Yeah. Either that or sometimes you didn't notice that or or, you know, the things that they go around that you don't even pick up on, I think sometimes are quite amazing.
17:43 S3
Yeah, definitely. And there's there's been that circumstance that we've done that sort of thing and gone, Oh, what did we just go around, or what what just happened? Or, you know, and someone's told me and I've gone, Oh, okay. And I'm oblivious to it half the time.
17:58 S1
Are you going to be taking her to Trek for Vision?
18:01 S3
At this stage? I've decided not to. It's a big undertaking. She's not travelled... on a plane yet, for a start. So a four hour international trip is going to be a fairly long one for it. Yeah. As a number one. But while I've got enough sight, that I can navigate myself with, you know, someone around me, and I've got a support person coming with me. I should be okay. There's... if I was just sightseeing, like, generally very easy, not too bad. But it's 53 over five days, so it's a fairly... not just one day of hard work. It's, for her it's five days worth of pretty solid walking. So with some hills in there as well.
So I don't doubt that she could probably do it. But at the same time, I think it's going to be wise at this stage, being a very new handler as well, yeah, for me to leave it, leave her at home, unfortunately... and... go it alone.
19:07 S1
Does it make sense for you? And handling and being new to it yourself? It's still like you guys figuring each other out and you having to use mental energy to understand her cues. Right?
19:16 S3
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So... and, you know, I got told by my trainers going back when I was going through the process of... There's times you're going to not want your dog with you if you can, if you don't need a dog just for convenience or for whatever it may be, you know, you might be going to a concert and you go, I just can't take the dog. You might be going like, I'm going on a hiking trip I can't take. I can, but is it easier to go without. The answer is probably Yes at this stage. Whereas there's another... there is a dog going and she's an experienced handler. So she's got a bit more understanding of dogs needs, I guess, in those things, especially for travel. So as I developed with Yana, then obviously that, you know, in years to come, that's going to be a whole different thing for me.
20:02 S1
I mean, it sounds like you've got lots of adventures coming up, so it's not like it's now or never. And I'm sure you can book it, book yourself in a fun flight to go somewhere and do a trail run interstate or something.
20:13 S3
Indeed. So we've actually found that the other dog going is actually Yana's sister on the track, and she's in Sydney. So the fact that they won't meet on the track, we're probably going to... make a flight to Sydney in the... this year sometime and just have a play date, so to speak.
20:32 S1
Oh, that would be so cool.
20:33 S3
So, with Luna's handler, Yana's sister. Yeah, it'll be amazing. Yeah, she gets to do that, and she gets a flight, and I get some experience doing that. And... yeah, she gets to see her sister.
20:44 S1
Amazing. Yeah. And I think you briefly mentioned about having a cat, which I'm interested in. Because I think some... people especially who would be considering getting seen as like, Oh, I've got, you know, a cat. How did the... settling in go?
20:57 S3
Yeah. So my cat's eight was eight years old when I got him as a rescue. So he's about 11 now. We think he's been around dogs before, but we weren't sure. So day one meeting Yana, he did the whole cat thing of higher grounds, but was still curious and went, Oh, okay, what's this going on? And there was no he's fairly placid anyway, so there was no hissing and and scratching and all those things. But I think probably week one, he got a little close. And... I think he gave Yana a little bit of a swipe when she lunged at him at one point. Fair enough, fair enough. Fair enough. And I think that after that they started to find their common ground. The sort of thing...
But in general, like, he keeps his distance to a point, like he won't sit right next to her. He'll sit on one of us, on our laps or on the chair or something... or on the table. So he's out of the way a little bit. But in saying that, he'll follow her around. If she's in the room with me, he'll come and find us because he doesn't want to be alone. So it's a bit cute that he really doesn't like her, but he really kind of does. Mm.
22:15 S1
It's a secret.
22:16 S3
It is a secret. It's very cute. But in general, for anyone that's got a cat that's thinking about it, it's... very doable. It's not a problem as long as your cat's, you know, not an aggressive cat that's going to swipe at anything, I think is probably the the key. But they'll wander around the backyard together. He'll wander under between her legs and all those things. They'll sit there and bump noses, and sometimes she gets a little bit rough because she's, you know, six times his body weight. And he'll just go, Well, that's enough and wander off and find his own quiet spot for an hour or two and then come back. So that's fine. And she doesn't understand what she's doing. If, you know, she's just having fun, she's just getting to know him.
22:57 S1
Sometimes they don't realise that the cats aren't another dog. Start to play like a dog, and you're like, No, not really.
23:03 S3
Yeah. And she'll give him a nudge or a bump. And next thing you know, he's... flown halfway across the room and he's like, No, that's enough. And see you later. And off he goes... sort of thing. So and she's now used to him every time he used to jump up onto something. It was a fast movement. So she'd lunge at him, but now she doesn't care. So we're seven months into living as a family, and... yeah, she couldn't care less if he jumps up and down now and does what he does. She'll occasionally, if he's having a full sprint, she might go, Oh, this is a game.
And that's what she thinks... so, she just thinks it's playing. So she'll just go chase him. And then he goes, Oh, that's not the plan... and, um, next thing you know, he's trying to hide because he's going, I didn't really want that first place.
23:47 S1
Not a single hint of aggression. She just is like, Oh, that's fun.
23:51 S3
Yeah. It's just it is. It's a game to her. So in terms of that, they're very well acclimatised, I think. I think I said to you before, Harriet, like in six months or a year's time, I'm going to walk out of my room and see her on the bed and him cuddled up next to her, just randomly. It might take six months or a year, who knows? But it may never happen. But I've just got this gut feeling, one day I'm just going to walk out and it's going to, oh, okay, that's where they are. So... yeah, they they get along pretty well, all things considered.
24:23 S1
So, so sweet, I love it. It's... yeah. Well it's out. I mean, it sounds like you guys in your very short partnership have... I mean, not only kind of got up to quite a lot, but it's, yeah. Settling in really nicely.
24:36 S3
Yeah. It is. It's... I was obviously always a bit hesitant, as to how it will integrate with not just the cat, but life and all those things in general. But really thankful that I've taken on Yana. Even with that bit of sight that I've got left. Because it just means that I can build that confidence on know what to do if and when the sight drops... further. So I've got that ability. And I guess the other thing is I've got that confidence that when I go out as well, I'm not getting any rebuttals in terms of being denied anywhere to go. All those things, the odd Uber, which is a bone of contention with all handlers, yeah.
But I've not been refused entry anywhere. I've been in hospitals, ed departments... obviously restaurants, cafes, all those things. There's no issues at all. So, which is nice. So it's actually given me a bit of confidence. Whereas I think if I was 100% blind or very close to and doing this for the first time, I'd be like, Is this okay? type thing. So yeah, I think it's the perfect time for... us to be together and, and start the journey. So, yeah.
25:56 S1
And just to finish it off, do you have any last messages for any... supporters of seeing eye dogs? Kind of general public or other handlers?
26:05 S3
I guess it's... supporters is, Just get out there and support seeing eye dogs if you can. Foster, foster. We need more dogs out there. It's a very small number that get... matched every year. So the more foster families and things we have supporting, the better. Obviously donate some dollars if you can, towards it, because not every dog's funded by NDIS. Most are, but not every dog gets all that funding. So, donate obviously... and go from there.
But other than that, it's just for the general public, feel free to, you know, approach people that have handlers. You might get a No occasionally if you want a pet. But there's every chance that if the dog settled and, you know, especially myself, if the dog settled and... you know, in a relaxed position, I'm just having a break myself. It might be a bit of a chance to get some education for you or your kids to to understand what Yana does for me or a dog does for the handler. And maybe get a pet at the same time. So, we're all pretty open about it and talk about it. More than happy to to educate the general public as we go on a case-by-case basis.
27:26 S1
Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show and sharing your story.
27:31 S3
No problems at all. Harriet, thank you so much for having me. It's been great.
27:41 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews - the first with Assistance Dogs International's Executive Director, Chris Diefenthaler, and the second with Seeing Eye Dogs handler Dale Pierce.
If you'd like to find part one of my interview with Dale, you can head to your preferred podcast provider or on the FM page. If you'd like to find out more about Assistance Dogs International, you can head to their website at Assistance Dogs International dot org. For more information about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, how you can help, information about becoming a handler, you can head to our website. Don't forget to tune in, same time next week for another episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. Thank you for listening and have a lovely week.
