Life and retirement of a Seeing Eye Dog mum

00:10 S1

On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I'm going to be joined by Kathryn and Neil Archibald talking about the life of Hattie, a newly retired breeding dog, being part of the carer community as they've been volunteers for over ten years, and the role of a breeder carer. And we're going to talk a little, a little bit about what it is like to raise a puppy and care for the breeder as a as a mum, and then what it means to adopt the breeder that you've cared for after five years on seeing dogs programs. If you've ever wondered about the lives of a breeding dog at seeing eye dogs, or what happens to them when they retire from the breeding program, you'll enjoy this interview. 

Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. Hi Kathryn and Neil, thank you for joining me on the show today.

01:11 S2

Pleasure to be here.

01:12 S3

Hi, Harriet.

01:13 S1

I would like to just start off by, if you're happy to introduce yourselves, tell us a bit about, yeah, what it is that you do at EyeDogs.

01:20 S2

We got involved.... Kath always had a passion for... dogs, and I'm somewhat the same. We attended... an information session at Kensington, and that was kind of it. It sort of sealed the fate for the next ten years or so. So, we got involved primarily in part time caring, which quickly became full time caring. And then in turn, obviously, we we ended up with... breeder carers and, through our son [?Withani] and then us with Hattie and... the like. So yeah, it's, that's my interpretation. Kath may have a slightly different.

02:06 S3

Well, it was an open day. You remember when they used to have the open days, Harriet?

02:09 S1

Yeah. And, I mean, I know that was a pretty good opportunity to... kind of bring people in, you know, you get one, pat, and then you end up walking home, pretend, you know. I mean, not quite with a puppy, but having signed a form and then a puppy's on their way pretty soon. Yeah.

02:23 S3

Yeah, I spoke to them. I said, Oh, I'd love to do puppy caring, but I can't do it full time because of the business and everything. And they said, Oh no, you can be. Back then it was like part time carers because it's ten years now that we've been caring. And I said, Oh, okay. So I went back and signed up and that's how it's all sort of started. It was Ron and Sandra that were [?Hayley] Honey's sisters, carers. 

02:53 S1

It's all very kind of full circle for you guys isn't it. Because... you currently have, you have two dogs. Would you like to introduce them?

03:00 S3

We've got... Madam, I call her Madam.

03:05 S2

Hattie.

03:05 S3

Who will be six in December. We started caring for her at four months and I think when she was, I think it was nearly 12 months. Vanessa said to me that they were looking at her for the breeding programme and would we still like to be her carers? And I said, Oh yes, of course we would. Yeah, yeah. So that was well, four and a half years ago now, nearly so... it just goes that quickly. Yeah. Hattie's had the four litters, so 33 pups, 22 boys and 11 girls. And now we're caring for one of her daughters from her last litter. Nancy, because I always said to Vanessa, I'd like to care for a pup from her last litter. So that's what we're doing. Yeah.

03:46 S1

So when it rolled around, you kind of had no choice. And now you've got a bit of a full house.

03:50 S2

Yes, yes, we do have our own.

03:53 S3

Yeah, Charlie.

03:54 S2

Our own 15.5 year old lab retriever who, ironically, is blind. But... he's he's been part of the family obviously, for that time And he's seen a succession of dogs come and go over the over the period. But... they've all been, they're all somewhat nurturing for him and, and... seem to sense that he's... struggles a bit with... a few things. So. Yeah, it's good to although the young one here doesn't mind stealing his food when she gets an opportunity, but... yeah, other than that... but, of course, prior to Hattie, we were kind of involved with the breeder program with with our son looking after Honey, who was Hattie's mum. 

So Honey was a bit of a bit of a golden girl in the in the kennels there for a while. Doctor Nicola used to use her a lot for videos because she was very, um, very accommodating and very easy to work with, I think was... probably the way to put it.

04:53 S3

So she's always smiling, always a happy girl, always on her back with her legs up in the air. Rub my tummy where? 

05:03 S2

So, yeah, we've got probably 3 or 4 generations almost accounted for now. Yeah, yeah.

05:10 S1

Yeah. So really continuation of of the line. You almost had to do it.

05:14 S2

Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, that's what I was told anyway.

05:20 S1

So, so with Hattie's, um, last letter, you did have a few special names in there. Which ones did you suggest and which ones are picked?

05:30 S3

Well, we suggested quite a few. And out of the litter of six, they use five of them, so that was fantastic. So we were rapt. And one of them is called Nail.

05:42 S2

The poor kid.

05:44 S3

He's probably always running late and allegedly on time, allegedly.

05:47 S2

A bit of a troublemaker. I don't know where he got that from, but anyway.

05:50 S3

Who told you that?

05:50 S2

Yeah. Kim. Kim. So, yeah, apparently he's a bit of a bit of a unit, but, yeah, he...

05:59 S3

He's after Vanessa as well. Helped because she gets called Ness. And also... our second son, Cameron. They've got what's the birds? They've got Quaker.

06:10 S2

Quaker parrots, and they've got... Nancy.

06:13 S3

And they've got a Nessie as... the name of one of their parrots. Oh.

06:17 S2

Oh, Norma was...

06:19 S3

After my mum's sister that passed away.

06:22 S2

Yeah. She was a lovely soul. Absolutely lovely soul. Yeah. So, it only seemed fitting that we... sort of keep that name. What's the other one?

06:34 S3

There's no Vanessa, Nadia, Norma, Neal and Niro. I've got them written there.

06:39 S2

There you go.

06:40 S3

Sorry I had to write them down, because after Hattie's... second litter of 11, I just couldn't remember them all.

06:46 S1

Oh, so many. I mean, and, you know, she's she's had such a good breeding career, so now kind of... sitting back and earning her retirement. I'm sure she's pretty, pretty chuffed. Yeah.

06:56 S3

Yeah. Well, from her first litter, she's got Gretel that's had about 21 pups. I think she's had two litters. 

S1

Wow. Yeah. Good. 

S3

And then in the second letter, they've got Achilles, the boy. So I'm not sure whether he's done any work yet or not. Not too sure about that. And then in her second or third letter, she's got Velma that's in the breeding program. And now there's the ends. So there's only there's four girls in that litter, so hopefully one of them will follow on and go on for months. Or one of the boys. 

07:36 S2

Or maybe they all might step up. Who knows?

07:39 S1

It's an amazing legacy. So. So now that she has retired and you know, she's done all of her amazing work, you know, what's the plan for her life?

07:49 S3

A lot of sleeping, a lot of catching up on. Pretty good.

07:54 S2

She's pretty good at it anyway.

07:55 S3

Yeah. Yeah.

07:57 S2

We'll try and get her a bit more adventurous, because we... holiday up at Lake Eildon and she's a bit scared of the water at this point, so I don't know whether it was. Which is kind of ironic because her mum's the total opposite, Honey. He opened the car door and she's in the water before you know it. Yeah. But... yeah, we'll probably try and get her a bit more active because she's been very, very good and very quiet and quiet demeanor and the like. So it'd be nice to see her a little bit more energetic notwithstanding. It's certainly... pleasant to have a calm dog.

08:35 S3

She's always been very chilled, and there's been a few times there. I've said to Vanessa, I said, I think we need to get some blood tests done just to make sure that everything's okay because she's so chilled.

08:45 S1

She's just she's just sitting there. She's just chilling. What? What's wrong with her?

08:49 S3

Yeah. And Vanessa would say to me, oh my God, Catherine, so many other carers would love to have a dog just like Hattie. And I'm going, But she just sleeps. She doesn't do anything else and she's not very energetic and... she's just very, very chill.

09:04 S2

She does love a cuddle, though? Yeah, she loves cuddle. Bit of a cuddle and an ear rub. She's certainly up for that in any opportunity she can get. So. But very personable. Dog likes to be near you or around you. But yeah, very chilled. And it's it's somewhat of a a difference to some of the others we may have looked after over the years, but certainly it's not a negative. It's more just a case of it's unusual.

09:31 S1

It's probably quite a good thing because, you know, she's probably passing on some quite nice relaxed genes to some of her, to some of her puppies. Paws crossed that she does. Yes. True. You never you never know what they get from which sites, you know. Yeah.

09:46 S3

I always say to her, when the pups are naughty, I say they're not like you. They've got that from their dads.

09:52 S2

And I knew when we spoke of Gertie earlier, which is... my niece's... [?mine] dog. And the two of them, Hattie and Gertie, get together, and they just go, go off.

10:04 S3

Yeah, but not as much as they used to. Yeah, nowhere near as much as they used to. 

10:08 S2

So she does... have times when she lets her hair down, as it were. But...

10:12 S3

And she hasn't had much chance for nearly two months now with having Nessie. She's a slightly different dog. I've seen a different side of her. And she's very much wanting to play with Nessie, and... sometimes I have to create one of them to make a bit of a break from it, but, yeah. And just with all this playing that she does with Nessie, when I feel her now, she's gone to muscle.

10:43 S1

Oh, really? She's stronger from it.

10:45 S3

Yeah, yeah.

10:46 S2

Working out? Yeah.

10:47 S3

She she doesn't need I mean, I still walk, I still walk her. But I've just felt that all, you know, her her legs and across her chest and her back, it's just all muscle.

10:58 S1

How interesting. So she's really, really kind of for the first time, I guess, being more active and so has actually, yeah. Yeah.

11:06 S3

I didn't think she would have this in her. I didn't expect them both to be so active together. Yeah, because Hattie's never been like that. But they are. They're very active together. And he does push her buttons. Yeah, but she doesn't growl or bark at her or anything, but Nessie frets a little bit if I take Hattie for a walk. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I always make sure Neil's here. Yeah, we'll have to try and work on that. So she's a bit calmer.

11:35 S1

They're kind of a dynamic duo. I'm sure it'll be quite helpful in so many ways. Having Hattie's influence. It's tricky because they do rely on each other, don't they?

11:44 S3

Oh, they do? Yeah. I mean, they can be mouthing each other and carrying on in the back yard. And then five minutes later, Nessie stolen Hattie's bed. And Hattie stolen the crate. Where had he never wanted to be? In a crate when we had her. But now all the time, whether she's trying to get away from Nessie. I'm not sure, but she loves being in the crate. Now I've got to get her out so that Nessie can go to bed.

12:13 S2

Mind you, there's times when she's taken solitude and got in with Charlie and his kennel. Yeah. Oh, that's a bit of seek, a bit of peace and quiet, I think.

12:22 S3

Yeah, but then Charlie's not too impressed because had. He'll go in there and do zoomies in his kennel while he's in there. Oh, Charlie doesn't know what's hit him.

12:32 S1

It's this... big dog tornado that he didn't really expect or invite.

12:37 S3

Yeah, yeah. But quite often I see Nessie and, Harry checking in on him, making sure he's alright. They're good like that.

12:44 S1

Yeah, it's. Well, it sounds like a really lovely kind of an interesting dynamic that you've got lots of different energy levels, lots of different quirks, you know, as with every every dog.

12:55 S3

Yes, definitely. Yeah.

12:57 S1

I mean, I'm guessing it's quite, you know, being quite special because Hattie's only kind of quite recently retired. And so now she's officially, she's officially yours.

13:05 S3

Yes, yes. Forgotten when we adopted her.

13:09 S2

Now she's officially a member of the family.

13:11 S3

Now? Yeah. It's only in the last couple of months since Nancy's come, come along. That it's all been sorted, so yeah. I find it hard sometimes having to leave her at home. Yeah, but we've got a friend that's got a cafe in Merlynston. And she's known it's her own cafe, and, she's known Haddie ever since we've had her, basically. And she said to me, Kathryn, I don't mind. I'm still happy for you to bring her. So that's great. And a lot of the the customers that are at that go to Anna's Cafe. They've got to know us coming in with the dogs, because we normally come in with at least 2 or 3. Yeah. And... so they know our story as well. And, yeah. So Anna's quite happy for us to bring to bring Hattie still. And they always look forward to their carrots, yeah, in their... So... it's nice that I can still take her because she enjoys, she enjoys being with people and being out. So yeah, I'm sort of I think I'm sort of finding that a little bit hard that I can't take her to places that I used to.

14:16 S1

Yeah, it's a it's definitely an interesting transition. But I think for anyone listening, you know, a lot of people have questions about like, you know, what happens to them when, you know, seeing artworks doesn't, you know, doesn't want them or they've retired. And so it's really I think it's nice for people, you know, wanted to, I guess put a spotlight on, you know, that the people a lot of the times that have had them their whole lives, you know, just sign a bit of paperwork and then they become like permanent part of the family. So it's different. But it's it's a very loving retirement.

14:43 S2

So if you could put it that they've they've been part of the family now it's just official. Yeah.

14:48 S1

Yeah.

14:49 S3

And the thing is too, you know, when we do go out, people are used to Hattie being with us, you know, because we've had her for so long. So, yeah, it's a bit of a transition for both of us. But then with having Nessie now, I think sometimes Hattie looks forward to having a bit of a break. She gets a few hours where she's, she can have a sleep.

15:08 S1

You know, as she's getting older, she's probably quite happy to kind of just do less. Less work, less training than she ever would have if she was still on the program.

15:17 S2

Yeah, absolutely.

15:19 S3

So when we go out for a little while, she recharges on her bed and she's always she's always looking out for Nessie when we come back, you know, and I think, Oh, okay. So you're ready to play again.

15:30 S1

And they and they do love each other. It's a like kind of yeah. It's just like frustrating because she's probably like, leave me alone. And then she loves her at the same time. Yeah.

15:38 S3

Well that's what happens by night time. They're both on Hattie's big bed. Lucky I got a big round one from Costco a few years ago.

15:45 S1

Kind of link together.

15:47 S3

But, yeah, they're cuddling together and you think, Oh, why can't you be like this all the time? And it's so cute, and you just think, Oh, these are the moments that I really love when I see them cuddling up to each other and having a sleep and being relaxed.

16:01 S2

But as you put it, they do once they're separated, they do look out for each other. They do sort of long for each other. Yeah. It's... kind of funny. You think they'd be sick of each other, but. No, you separate them, and they certainly, yeah, certainly each other...

16:15 S1

Yeah. Where's my other half?

16:17 S3

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:20 S2

Honey wasn't quite that. She wasn't quite like that. But, she certainly, you know, enjoyed the attention but yeah... it was different. But these two, yeah absolutely.

16:31 S3

But I think Honey and miss Honey and Nessie. So grandmother and granddaughter have only met each other once and honey told her off straight away and I thought, Oh, Honey, I think you need to come to our house.

16:44 S1

Yeah. I mean, maybe a little bit of, maybe a little bit of grandma's tough love is what she needs.

16:50 S3

Yeah, yeah. And I thought, Oh, okay. And she actually listened, you know, like with Honey, with Hattie, she just sort of keeps playing, but with... Grandma Honey, it was. Oh, she's open. Yeah, yeah. So that was good to see as well that she did, you know, she did back off.

17:08 S1

I mean, it's an amazing kind of connection to the one family of of dogs really, isn't it? Are there any other thoughts that you have about your time, you know, with Hattie or caring or, you know, being part of, I guess, like some of the carer community that you'd like to share with the listeners?

17:22 S3

We love going to the Paw Pals and catching up with everybody. And you take such beautiful photos. Harriet, you and Eileen are the best with the photos, so, it's great.

17:34 S2

You know, when when they've had a litter to get a, I suppose, a sneak preview, as it were, of the pups before they're sort of released to to carers and then it's, it's kind of cuteness overload, really. They're just balls of fluff jumping around and you just think, Oh, what the life that's ahead of you guys and, you know, hope you're up for it and all that sort of thing. But yeah, it's really it's really good to see them in there and, and the like and, and the facilities are just so amazing in there where the they nurture a very caring sort of environment. The dogs are well and truly looked after. There's, you know, everything they need there... yeah. It's a... credit to Vision Australia the way that runs it. It's something very special. 

And of course being in the breeding program, you get an opportunity to see it a bit more than what the average, the average carer would. So it's, it's nice to see some of the behind the scenes, as it were, and see the hard work that goes on and the dedication of the people in it kennels and, and the like, they're... it's, yeah, commendable. That's for sure.

18:46 S3

Yeah. I remember speaking to... Jake, I think it was at the Volunteer Thank You event in May this year, and he'd been on holidays. He's so lovely to talk to. And I said, Oh, I suppose you enjoyed the break away from all the puppies and everything. He goes, Oh, no, I miss them. And I said, really? And he goes, Oh yeah. He said, I love it. I love my job. And I went, Oh, wow. You know, I was just so impressed that that he actually said that he missed being in the centre. He just loves it that much. Yeah. And he said that he was going to miss Hattie. And I'm thinking, Oh, wow. And then there was a few other people that we spoke to that night and they said, Oh, have you got Hattie? And I was saying, yeah. They go, Oh, she was fantastic in the puppy centre. She was a great mum and she was called the Queen and all this sort of stuff.

19:33 S2

She's a bit of a celebrity and now...

19:35 S3

I'm sort of thinking, Wow, I've never heard, I've never heard this before about her. There were some new staff there and I didn't know that they were part of the puppy centre. It was just so nice to hear such kind words about Hattie, because obviously we don't get to see her while she's being a mother because we see them at, you know, roughly 6 or 7 weeks when they're when she's ready to come home. It was quite touching, actually, to hear such kind words about her.

20:02 S2

Mm. It's also great to meet the general public and be able to to reiterate how how it all works. And because the public don't have a perception of, they just think that the dogs are bred by outside carers and all that sort of thing. But then when you explain to them how you know the... key letter for a litter, so it keeps track of the bloodlines. Et cetera, et cetera. And you know how... they introduce overseas donors and the like. It's how much goes into the breeding program is, great to sort of be able to spread the... knowledge, I suppose, for want of a better description, so that people get a concept of how it all comes together and what a great program they're running there at... Kensington.

20:52 S3

So, yeah, I.

20:54 S1

Think even the, the breeders are kind of part of senior dogs and always have, you know, were raised in the same way. And then we've chosen for the good qualities rather than as a release like not good Enough, I think is quite That surprises a lot of people. I think they assume that, yeah, the breeders are the worst of the bunch and couldn't make it as dogs. I don't know if you've heard that. I've had that a few times. People, people think.

21:13 S2

Oh yeah.

21:14 S1

Oh yeah.

21:15 S2

I've sort of heard it more the opposite. But yeah, I can imagine people would think that. Yeah, yeah.

21:20 S3

And a lot of the general public don't realise that there's the two organisations either. They say, Oh yeah, we donate to Seeing Eye dogs and they go, Oh, okay, that, you know, we're in Kensington. They'll go, Oh no, no, thank you. And then you'll, I'll say it's like Holden and Ford or Woolies and Coles, you know, provide similar service but different organisations. And they'll go, really? We never knew that. We always thought it was just guide dogs. So yeah, it's quite interesting. Yeah.

21:50 S5

Yeah.

21:50 S1

It's... yeah. Well I mean and everyone that kind of is part of the community has a different role. And I mean, you guys have kind of the two roles is pretty, it's pretty impressive for doing both breeder and puppy care at the same time as...

22:04 S5

Yeah. Yeah.

22:06 S3

And the hardest part is trying to stop the general public from patting the pups, you know, wanting to. Yeah.

22:13 S2

But I think it's the awareness is getting a lot better because you see a lot of parents telling their children that, you know, make sure you ask and...

22:20 S3

Or then you get the opposite. Yeah, got the kids telling the parents.

22:24 S2

Yeah.

22:24 S3

Just to touch them. Yeah. You know. I like it.

22:27 S1

When it's the kids telling the parents.

22:29 S3

Yeah. Most of the time it's pretty good. But... it's...

22:33 S2

I think it's certainly on the increase. The awareness is certainly on the increase. It's been really good.

22:38 S3

I think the worst thing I've ever heard somebody say was that Oh, it's a shame that they've got to put the dogs down... that don't make it. Yes.

22:46 S5

Yes.

22:47 S3

And I just I was just dumbfounded. I thought, really? No, that is not what happens. Definitely not. You know, and then Oh, it's a shame that they've got to wear their jacket all the time. They don't get any playtime. And I go, no, that's not how it happens you know. So yeah.

23:05 S1

That's exactly why it's really good having pairs like you guys on to talk about the realities of things. You know, like there's lots of playtime and there's lots of, you know, and then you get to sign your paperwork and have happy forever and no one's forcing you. She's definitely the alternative is definitely, you know, finding a loving home. It's just, yeah, we, our pups find very good, very good outcomes. Whatever, whatever their path that they choose is. And it's, yeah, it's it's great that you have some really, really wonderful people who are able to, yeah, take care of the pups when they're on program and then afterwards, yeah, help them find the best life.

23:39 S2

Like I said earlier, she's always been part of the family. Now it's just official. Yeah.

23:44 S1

It's just it's just forever now. Rather than at a time when you might have to go back. Yeah.

23:48 S3

Yeah, well, I think it'll probably be in a couple of weeks. It'll be the first time I'll have to buy her a bag of food. Oh, nearly six years.

23:57 S5

Wow.

23:58 S1

I mean, hey, it'll be probably one of the... better purchases that you've made, you know, like keeping keeping you happy and healthy is a is a pretty, pretty good privilege, I think.

24:09 S5

Yeah.

24:09 S3

Well, luckily we've got a Petbarn that's pretty close. And one of the guys that runs it, she used to be a puppy carer, and she's adopted Daphne and Ivan. She's got them. And I always love going in there and having a chat. Yeah. She's lovely. So, she knows all about Hattie and everything, so, yeah. So I'll have to go and purchase my first bag soon, so... but we'll still be sticking to Royal Canon, though. Yeah. For sure.

24:38 S1

Well, congratulations on on making Hattie a permanent member of your family. And thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

24:45 S3

That's alright. Thank you. Harriet. Any time. 

24:47 S2

Thanks for the opportunity.

24:48 S3

Yeah. Thank you.

24:55 S1

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Kathryn and Neil Archibald. The Archibalds will give Hattie a very lovely retirement. So I'd like you to join me in wishing Hattie a well deserved and happy retirement. We'll also give a big thanks to them for their time with Hattie in the puppy and the breeder programs at Seeing Eye Dogs. We couldn't do the work that we do raising, breeding, training, seeing eye dogs without carers like Kathryn and Neil doing their part. 

Anyone who is interested in becoming a breeder carer, we're looking for new breeder carers now who live in Victoria. In areas around Melbourne. Some select councils including Mary Beck, Darebin, Moonee Valley, Bendigo, Maribyrnong, Yarra, Brimbank, Hobsons Bay, Port Phillip, Bayside or Kingston and a few select regions listed on our website. The breeding program is part of Seeing Eye Dogs operations that allow us to create wonderful partnerships and the Seeing Eye dogs in our breeding operating program. Our selection of the best and brightest dogs who are chosen to create further generations of lovely seeing eye dogs. These dogs require a loving home full time for the duration of their breeding career. Returning to Seeing Eye Dogs kennel facility in Kensington for breeding activities.

So if you are interested, please note that you will have to help to transport a dog to Kensington for their duties. Male and female breeding dogs will need homes from around the age of 12 to 15 months old, and they could be in the breeding programme for a few months to a number of years, depending on the dog, and they may go into our training program and graduate as seeing eye dogs if appropriate, and the dog is happy and healthy and willing to work. If you'd like to find out more about becoming a breeder carer, you can head to our website at speedvision australia.org. If you'd like to find out about other volunteering, you can head to that website again: SED dot vision dot org. We are looking for puppy carers in parts of New South Wales, Queensland and across Victoria. 

We have an information session online for all states on Thursday the 22nd of August 2024, 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time via zoom. You can head to our website to find more information about that session and to attend. Last week, the 5th to 12th of August was National Student Volunteer Week and International Assistance Dog Week, which focused on the theme of It Takes a Village and we know that that is true. In our case. We have a very large and wonderful cohort of volunteers, and we would love to have you join us if you're interested in helping. 

So thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye DogS Show. And if you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at SED dot Vision Australia dot org. And don't forget to tune in, same time next week for another episode of The Seeing Eye Dogs Show.