00:11 S1
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. On this episode, I'm joined by Chris Edwards, general manager of corporate affairs and advocacy at Vision Australia. He's going to talk to us about Vision Australia's advocacy wins and projects from 2024. Chris is also himself a senior dogs handler, so he brings his lived experience to his work advocating for dog handlers. We recorded this at the end of 2024, so please note that this year said throughout this interview refers to 2024.
We're going to be talking about the team's work, including in rideshare and taxi advocacy, aka point to point aviation and airline travel, electric cars and NDIS matters. For more information on the advocacy department, you can visit the website at Vision australia.org/about hyphen US forward slash advocacy and keep listening. Now here's my interview with Chris. Hi Chris. Thanks for joining me on the show today.
01:22 S2
Thanks very much. It's great to be here.
01:25 S1
I'd love if you can start off and just introduce yourself and your role at Vision Australia, please.
01:30 S2
Yeah, thanks. I'm Chris Edwards, I'm the general manager of corporate affairs and advocacy for Vision Australia. So we look after our government relations. We look after our policy and advocacy area, particularly focusing on systemic advocacy. And we also look after our NDIS and aged care leads, which helps advise the organisation on all things NDIS and aged care matters.
01:57 S1
I think you've actually had a title change since we last spoke. I was like, Oh, that sounds new.
02:03 S3
Mm. But yeah, it's the same thing. It's similar. It's similar. We've also got... our external comms area that... fits, comes within our area. So that's going to really help us strengthen our messages across the community.
02:20 S1
So it's been you know, we're talking again about 2024 and the year that was. So I'd love if we can chat about, I guess, some of the things that you got up to or the wins for your team. So I think one of the probably biggest topics that we have for our senior dog handlers is around your kind of point-to-point transport. What does that mean? And what happened in that space last year?
02:42 S2
Yeah, thanks very much. Clearly, you know, refusals in point-to-point transport, whether it's rideshare or taxis, remains a key issue for handlers and causes. You know, a great deal of anxiety, stress. And, you know, it's an issue that is clearly, you know, one of the biggest discrimination areas that we face in Australia. And so our team certainly understands that and has been working across multiple levels to actually try and help resolve that. And so we've been working, you know, with regulators across different states on various working groups and been working directly with taxi companies and with rideshare companies like Uber to to try and resolve that.
Everybody's frustrated about this experience that's getting. And so we've been, you know, looking at how do we strengthen the policy regulations. How do we deliver more education and how do we help with our enforcement across that area.
03:52 S1
And you guys have actually done some very good stuff on education this year, didn't you, with the rideshare and point-to-point companies.
03:59 S2
We've done a number of education programs. So in Victoria we did a terrific campaign with Safety Transport Victoria, which released a number of videos that are aimed at drivers to educate them. We did some podcasts, but really importantly, we worked very closely with Uber to ensure that all drivers on the platform receive training in particularly assistance animals. Before, you know, there was some training, but it was involved with a broader disability training. And so because this remains such a key issue, we worked with Uber to develop some training to ensure that all drivers are very clear on what the law is, the impact of refusing for people and importantly, what Uber policy is.
And so for all drivers to remain on the platform, they had to complete this training, which involved watching a... watching a video to learn about that, and to... successfully answer a quiz.
05:06 S1
I guess it's going to be a kind of continuing piece with those companies, more with the drivers and and working towards getting that that down. So I guess work is never quite done.
05:16 S2
You're absolutely right. It's that it's not a set-and-forget... issue. And we certainly saw some very positive signs after the training. I've, you know, met with Uber recently. They say that they send out messages every week and more detailed messages, you know, fortnightly or monthly to remind drivers that it is not an option to refuse handlers. And the same thing we've been working with cab companies like one three cabs, who are also seeing this as a key focus to try and improve the situation, to to avoid refusals. You know, this work will continue to be done until... everybody's very clear - and we we see, you know, those refusals drop off.
06:03 S1
And so a lot of the work that you guys do I mean, in my mind at least, it feels like quite lengthy process, I guess from the start of a campaign to kind of when. So I think I spoke with one of your advocacy team. I think really it was maybe 2023 when we spoke about electric cars, but you actually have results on, on that. Could you tell us a little bit about electric cars in your campaign and you know what results you've got?
06:29 S2
Yeah, I think that's very true. I think, you know, there's very rarely in policy and changing systemic advocacy that it happens super quickly every now and again. It does. We had a recent win in New South Wales around the Education Department and around their policy in assistance animals in school recently where, you know, we can, you know, work with them. And they understood the situation and we can make change. However, most of the time we need to be quite resilient and persistent and have a very clear strategy to make policy change.
07:03 S1
A lot of patience.
07:06 S2
And determination, and don't take no for an answer. But I think also importantly, continuing to work collaboratively, you can certainly express your opinion in systemic advocacy very strongly in opposition and certainly articulate that. But in my experience where you're working together to go, Okay, this is a problem that's unacceptable and that we need to get a solution that is going to work for everybody. You tend to get better outcomes. So one of those was around electric vehicles. Obviously the community saw the issue of as these new vehicles came on the roads.
The key thing that, you know, someone who's blind knows when they're crossing a road or a driveway is that they can hear the car to ensure that they stay out of the way. With electric vehicles, particularly when they're When they're travelling slowly, there's no sound. And so obviously creates a great, great danger for people who are blind and low vision. And to be honest, for everybody in the community, that might be a bit distracted with a pram or etc.. And so we set out five years ago to ensure that Australia introduces design rules within the vehicles that make sure that all electric vehicles that come into Australia have minimum noise levels when they're travelling slowly.
And so yeah, long story short, after a number of campaigns, lots of work with different areas of government, a key thing to support, you know, the policy work that was happening and getting submissions into that. Yeah. We finally got an outcome this year when the Assistant Minister for Transport, Carol Brown, at the time, gave me a call one Friday and said, Believe it or not, I've just signed off the new design rule and as of 2026, all electric vehicles will have this minimum noise level.
09:06 S1
Which is amazing. It really I mean, that's one of those things that's really going to save lives or, you know, at least reduce a lot of stress or injury or near misses all of that type of stuff, isn't it? I mean, it's, especially as electric cars become more common... it's kind of a little bit like nipping as well in... the bud before it becomes more of a problem.
09:29 S2
Yeah. It was, it was certainly, you know, time was of the essence because it's very hard to retrospectively... introduce, you know, these design rules for cars that are on the road. And so the longer the delay was means that there's more cars on the road without these features. And... you know, and I was very proud, like yesterday, I caught an Uber into work and... as the car came down the street, that was emitting this, you know, what is... a very subtle noise, but one that you can hear and think, How good is that - that we've been able to influence that all cars in the future will make that noise and make it safer for everybody.
10:07 S1
Your advocacy in action.
10:10 S2
Which is. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was quite... yeah... it was pretty good. It was like, you know, it's, you know knowing that and, and I think the really important thing about it is, it's, whilst it's particularly relevant to people who are blind and low vision, the reality is it makes it safer for, you know, the whole community, even sighted people when they're walking along the footpath and there's a car going about to pull out of a driveway behind a, you know, a big fence or a hedge. Yeah. The only thing that they know that that's going to happen is because they can hear the car. And so everyone's going to be safe.
10:44 S1
And your advocacy in 2024, it wasn't only on the roads. You were also looking at the aviation space. So we're tackling the skies as well, which is pretty, pretty cool. What changes or work was done around the aviation space?
11:00 S2
Aviation is one of those things that is, you know, I think a fairly stressful experience for everybody. And when you're blind or low vision and when you're a seeing eye dog or guide dog handler, it becomes, I think, even more stressful for for a lot of people. And so, yeah, we've done, again, a lot of collaborative work with different parts of the aviation sector. We made submissions more broadly to the aviation White paper and green paper, which sets out the future for aviation for the next 20 years. And it was very pleasing to see that accessibility was a key aspect of that.
We've worked at a policy level around some aviation committees that are looking at, you know, the broader direction that aviation takes, and how do we turn that into some practical things that the aviation sector needs to do? And then we did some very practical issues, particularly focusing on two aspects. One is around airport security, where people find that the process at the moment through airport security is quite stressful and quite invasive. The way that a pat down is done. And so we've worked with the various airports and security to ensure that that experience is minimised.
And I think that the key thing that I to tell our listeners is that if you're going through security, you know, you should be able to, at the minimum, receive a wand pat down. So one where they use electronic wand and not necessarily a hand. And if your security person is reluctant to do that, feel free to just escalate that and say, can I please have your supervisor because I'm not comfortable in that. And and they can do that. What we're hoping is early next year, in the first quarter of next year, we will see some changes through some of the advocacy work that we've done to the rules around security. And we'll be able to talk about that. We should be able to even have more options around how people go through security to be to be less invasive.
13:16 S1
And I don't know if that was kind of something that you covered, but around separating the dog from the handler.
13:24 S2
Clearly, one of the the rules that is quite restrictive in the way that the security guards can process people through airport security, is that there's a very clear rule to not separate the dog from the handler. Whilst that was designed to rule so that, you know, a security person you know won't take the dog away from the person, it also limits the... options that, the process that can happen. And so that's one of the actual areas that is being reviewed in some new guidelines that says that, you know, there is greater scope to where somebody wants to go through a different option to be able to release the dog.
14:08 S1
I guess just kind of reinforcing all of those things, that there are other options. It doesn't have to be kind of as stressful and invasive, I think. I think there's some degree that for some people, airports are generally stressful regardless.
14:22 S2
But yeah, minimising I guess as much as possible. And I think that I think that's really important. And like, and some of these things aren't in place yet to so to be very clear... but, you know, I have seen some drafts of some new guidelines around... how... security will work. And I'm happy to come back next year when when they've been released. I'm very confident that the new guidelines, which will be a national framework now, will hopefully help for two things get a bit of consistency around airports and also provide some options to help the comfort of people and their experience.
15:05 S1
And even before you get to the airport, um, that kind of booking process, especially with an assistance dog, can be a little bit different and potentially more challenging than traveller without that particular aid. What has been done around that side of, you know, airline travel?
15:22 S2
Yeah. Thank you. We have been working a lot with airlines around this particular issue. I think it needs to be sort of clear for your listeners that are seeing eye dog or dog handlers. Is that the first time you fly with an airline? There will be some extra requirements around the type of documentation you need to provide, and that's just simply to ensure that the particular dog that you're traveling with is an accredited, you know, seeing eye dog in our case and that that it meets all the requirements with the airline and under the legislation.
So what we've been doing, and it's great that, you know, after the first flight, you know, both Jetstar and Virgin now can, you know, book online and you can basically part of the process and let them know you're travelling with an assistance animal and be able to process a booking that way.
16:18 S1
Would that then give you the seats that you would need, like the extra legroom seats, because it's kind of going to be part of your profile. Does that make sense?
16:27 S2
Yes, that's exactly what should happen to do it. And I think that it's a two step process that when you flag that there'll be some, you know, confirmation around some things to be able to to fly. Qantas still needs to be contacted by the call centre. To my knowledge, to this date we have been working with Qantas around just improving the accessibility of their forms. We believe that they're doing some work to to try and improve their experience online as well. We've also continued to work with the airlines within various committees and working groups, but also through education programs. Again, so being released very shortly is some training that we've done with Jetstar.
Training will be aimed at all airport staff to understand, you know, the experience of someone who's blind or low vision, using a seeing eye dog to go through the airport. And so that will be everything from entering the terminal, checking in, going to the gate and hopping on board. And so we've done, you know, a terrific training program with Jetstar to to try and improve the awareness of, you know, what sort of things help make it a better experience for a handler that's, you know, going through the airport.
17:45 S1
And I guess it's just one of those things. It's like educating those staff or just mean that you can really minimize some of those challenges. I guess in terms of even like I spoke to a handler not that long ago who was saying about being at the airport and trying to find the dog toileting area, but the staff were kind of like pointing and saying over there and not aware of the language that they were using and how unhelpful that was.
18:10 S2
Exactly. Some of the things that we were raising in the training to talk about the language and how to support and, you know, certainly making people aware that there is the facility in most airports now, and most of them are terrific. As well as that, we've worked with other airlines. So we've been doing a little bit of work with Virgin Australia, which uh, particularly around, you know, their new policy of allowing dogs on board. So next, next year, it's likely that that will continue to Continue to proceed. What we're assured is that there will be significant separation between pets that come on board and seeing eye dogs.
So the pets will be behind a certain row on the plane. You know, let's call it around row 21. And then, you know, but seeing eye dogs and dog guides will be still towards the front of the plane. And we've got to also remember that the only way that a pet will be on board is within a locked cage. And so yeah, there won't be pets roaming around on the plane that might disturb your animal.
19:22 S1
Flying is particularly interesting, I think, for any dog for their first time or first flight. I know how much preparation that you do to kind of make sure that either is comfortable. And maybe it's all quite second nature because, you know, she is such a seasoned traveler as you are. The idea of bringing pet dogs on planes is is a very interesting one. I, I'm not sure how much I look forward to that particular change.
19:44 S2
No I. Yeah I. It will be a yeah. A very interesting uh development in in Australia certainly in America there's lots of little dogs that hop on planes, but in Australia these dogs will be in a cage. And, uh, my understanding is they'll need to be under the seat in front. So it'll be only very small dogs that will be coming on board. Yeah. They'll be they'll be quite restricted in their in their movement, you know. But I think that the good thing is that the airline is completely understanding and through the work that we've been doing and the work that they've been doing themselves, is that the policies that they put in place want to ensure that, you know, people that are travelling, you know, with dog guides won't be negatively impacted.
20:29 S1
That's great. I think that's quite reassuring to hear.
20:33 S2
The good thing is you're not going to have a little dog right next to you in the next seat next to you that, you know, might be distracting for the whole flight.
20:41 S1
So one of the other things under your portfolio is NDIS... what's been going on in the NDIS space, kind of related to dog guides this year?
20:52 S2
Look, you know, I think that NDIS is with the new Act getting the NDIS back on track, Bill has made some significant clarifications and changes for people. And so as part of the reforms that is looking at much broader reforms to the NDIS, which will impact your eligibility for certain cohorts. It will impact the processes of assessment and planning. Eventually it will introduce a thing called foundational supports, where to ensure that, you know, those people that... may not be quite eligible for NDIS. There is a system delivered by the state that will support those people, so they're not left in isolation. All of those changes will continue to happen.
One of the things that has definitely impacted people is that they've released in Section 10 of the Act, particular items that will and won't be funded or supports that will and won't be funded. And so they've split those into three categories effectively is that define supports that will be funded defined supports that won't be funded. And then they've designed this supports called replacement supports. It's where there'll be some supports. And it's particularly around equipment that if someone and it tends to be around mainstream equipment that if there is some general use of it for someone's disability, they can apply under a replacement process to say, I want to replace some of my supports within the plan and purchase this other support being a bit of technology.
An example might be is that if someone has an accessible home appliance, let's say a more accessible washing machine, and they they say that, you know, this, this means that I can independently wash my clothes because of the accessibility features, etc. what NDIS may do is to say, okay, yes, we may fund that, however we'll fund it, but there'll be some supports that you may need to give up. And that means if you do get support for home support at the moment with someone to help support you wash those clothes, there'll be an expectation that if you purchase that, you'll actually offset some of those other supports that you're receiving and get and use less of those.
And so, yeah, there will be some compromises, you know, within your plan where you want to use the replacement process to do that for handlers, one of the really key aspects of it is that NDIS no longer fund pet insurance. So part of a maintenance cost traditionally is that it's funded. Pet insurance, you know, now NDIS have made it clear that they won't fund pet insurance. However, they do fund veterinary costs. And so if you go to the vet for a check up or for some treatment, you can claim that within your plan where those those extraordinary cases and we all know about those ones where dog's done a cruciate ligament or a swallowed something, or some things happen where the dog requires additional veterinary costs. So we all know of those ones that go to $10,000 or $15,000.
24:20 S1
Finally, pocket emergencies.
24:22 S2
Yeah, you can apply to the NDIS to get those additional vet costs funded.
24:30 S1
Is that quite guaranteed that they would then pay for that?
24:34 S2
Look, if it's an NDIS funded dog guide ride... so this is clearly, if they're not an NDIS funded service animal, they're not eligible at all for veterinary costs. But where it is an NDIS funded thing, it's to be tested. We've certainly lobbied to try and change it. We think that pet insurance is an important part, and we're still doing some work with the minister's office and with the Ndia around this. However, it appears that NDIS are effectively self-insuring. Instead of paying another insurer to do this, we're wanting to do some more work with the agency on how that process will work, because obviously it's a very stressful situation when your dog is unwell and it happens often very quickly to be able to, um, to ensure that, you know, that that decision can be made quickly.
25:23 S1
The last thing that you need is kind of the extra financial pressure on it. You just want the dog to be well and that's like your priority. So hopefully, hopefully the NDIS can work that one out so that you guys get kind of the....
25:35 S2
Yeah. So I think that look, you know, they are committing to the veterinary costs. You know people can apply for those. And so we're... yeah it's reasonable and unavoidable. Yeah. I don't see why they wouldn't be funded. They're not in funding pet insurance. But unfortunately it's one of those things that until we start putting it into practice and understanding the experiences of people, and certainly where people have had some experiences that haven't worked out so well, please contact us at Advocacy at Vision Australia dot org. Because we would love to work that through, you know, with the Minister and the agency to to ensure that, you know, that the experience does work for people.
26:18 S1
Are there any other kind of changes, I guess, that have been relevant that you'd like to share about from 2024?
26:25 S2
Look, you know, I think that, you know, when in doubt, you know, go to the NDIS website and look at those lists of what is funded and what is, they've been very simple language. You know, yeah. There is a number of, you know, therapies. You know, some of them, you know, that are probably unlikely that people are accessing. But you know, everything from, you know, cuddle therapy, wilderness therapy, you know, Reiki... goat therapy, all of some of these non-evidence based therapies are no longer funded. And so, yeah, if you're looking at a therapy that's probably not traditional and which is not occupational therapy or, or orthoptics or random or guide dog mobility instruction, and you're in doubt, you're best to go to one of those lists and see whether it is an eligible funding.
And so yeah, there's been changes to music therapy recently. And so, yeah, the best thing to do is check and then you won't have a shock when the NDIS contact you and say, That's not an eligible funded service.
27:28 S1
Is there anything else, just to finish off, that you would like to share about your kind of work and your department's work in 2024?
27:36 S2
Look, I think that the great thing about our work, it's never done. There's always systemic change that we need to make to try and improve inclusion and access for people blind, low vision in all sort of various aspects of life. We're really excited about, you know, the changes within our team that is combining some of that, that policy and advocacy and work with communications. And so I think it'll be a pretty exciting year. You'll see some bigger campaigns to try and help with, you know, changing community attitude, changing the attitude, you know, with with various aspects of community life.
28:20 S1
Well very exciting. Lots to come. And it sounds like you like to be busy. So there you are.
28:25 S2
Yeah. It's... it makes the year go very quickly. Like this year. It's hard to believe that we're just, just about there.
28:33 S1
Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show and for all of the work that you're doing... yeah, in all of those exciting spaces.
28:40 S2
Absolute pleasure, Harriet, and look forward to... touching base next year when we have some of these things that we've been working on come to fruition.
28:53 S1
I hope you enjoyed my interview with Chris Edwards, general manager of corporate affairs and advocacy at Vision Australia. You can head to the website at Vision Australia, About Us - Advocacy for more information on advocacy at Vision Australia - or head to the Seeing Eye Dogs website at Vision Australia. For more information on Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do before becoming a handler or how you can help, don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of The Seeing Eye Dogs Show.
