00:10 S1
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host Harriet Moffat. Today I have two interviews for you. The first is with puppy carer Jane Ling, who's going to talk to us about her life as a puppy carer and caring and working in education, taking puppies into school across the Mornington Peninsula region. Then I'm going to play a repeat of an interview with Seeing Eye Dogs instructor Brooke Anderson about equipment that handlers can use with their Seeing Eye dogs, and how handlers can work with their instructor to determine the equipment right for them and their dog. Without further ado, here is the interview with Jane talking about life as a puppy carer. Hi Jane, thank you for joining me on the show today.
00:59 S2
No problem.
01:00 S1
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
01:03 S2
Certainly. So my name is Jane Lynch. I live in Mount Martha on the Mornington Peninsula, and I've been involved with seeing eye dogs for about ten years now.
01:13 S1
So what is your volunteer role at Seeing Eye Dogs?
01:17 S2
So the the role I have is a puppy carer. We do basic care and training for puppies in their first journey as a seeing eye dog.
01:27 S1
Ten years is a pretty large amount of time and eight dogs. What keeps you coming back?
01:31 S2
I think I really, at the start I really thought I would do one dog... and I thought it would just be a really nice role to play for a minimal amount of time. And then very quickly, I realised the kind of community that came with the role. The love of puppies doesn't hurt. I must say that is... quite a, that's something that definitely keeps me coming back. But they are all unique. So I think when you've done one puppy, it's not the same when you get the second puppy. It's not the same. So it's a different story. And it almost like adds to the family every time another dog comes along.
02:13 S1
Although I'm sure you found from kind of doing number one to number number, you know, six, seven, eight that you've learned quite a bit and that, you know, you've maybe seen a variation of something or you're like, oh, I kind of understand what I need to do here.
02:25 S2
Oh my goodness. Yes, I can honestly say my first pup was the most challenging, but not because of her, because of me trying to do everything by the book and just having this tiny little being that had to come to work with me every day, and trying to navigate toileting in an office block and all that sort of stuff.
02:44 S1
So you did mention taking the puppies to work. What do you do for work?
02:48 S2
So I work in an education settings. I work for a small Not For Profit that runs a Department of Education contract for about 30 schools, and they're all secondary colleges on the Mornington Peninsula. And we provide networks for teachers. And so I guess we're indirectly helping students now rather than directly. So I have worked in schools in the past. Yeah, the pups I guess because it's more an administrative role now. I still get to go to schools a lot, and I think that really is an advantage with a pup.
03:20 S1
For the pup's development or for the students and other teachers and stuff?
03:24 S2
Oh, totally. For me to use as a bribe tactic.
03:29 S1
Listen to me, and then maybe you'll get some code-off time with the puppy.
03:33 S2
That's exactly it.
03:35 S1
Have you found the reception from the schools to be positive to the pups as well?
03:39 S2
Amazing, amazing. I have a slight bias toward my schools anyway. I call them "my" schools. I feel like I've... been on the peninsula for 40 years and been working with staff and schools down here for about 24 of those. So I just feel that every single location I go to, the pups are welcomed - and I feel like I'm almost an advocate as a seeing eye dog volunteer as much as I'm there to do my job. So a lot of questions come up and I feel like there's this constant learning opportunity for students to know why I bring a dog, and that it's not all just about having a puppy and having fun, that there's a real purpose behind it and there's learning for me.
04:25 S1
So can you please introduce your current puppy?
04:29 S2
I can, so she's actually not with me at the moment. So Emily is my latest pup. She's a full golden retriever. She's nine months of age and very pretty to look at. But I again, I'm biased. All all the pups are quite gorgeous. Everyone stops you in the street and particularly when they've got their jacket on. I'm finding that particularly down our way. I think there's quite a lot of us that do see my dog pups, so people recognise the jacket straight away.
04:59 S1
It's very much golden retriever. Zone two, down in the... peninsula.
05:03 S2
Oh. Is it? I don't particularly ask for them, but I do. I have enjoyed, we've done three labs and five goldies. One of them was a mix, actually. One of them was a lab/goldie cross, and she's working now, so that was quite lovely.
05:20 S1
It's quite a reinforcer to keep coming back as well. When you do have one that's graduated I think it is...
05:25 S2
And we've got two breeding dogs that we've had as well. So we've got a boy and a girl that went into the breeding program. So that's kind of exciting.
05:34 S1
It's a cool bit of a legacy too, because you can, you know, work out if potentially you've met a some sort of progeny offspring a few generations down from, from the dog that you raised.
05:43 S2
Yeah. I can only imagine what the lineage wall looks like. It's seeing eye dogs. So I know that a previous dog we had, Carmel, who was a golden retriever, and he was stunning, and I think he sired quite a few pups.
05:57 S1
So looking back, is there anything that you would tell your past self about caring that you, yeah, that you know now from...
06:08 S2
Yeah, I actually, that's a tricky question... I think I feel like it's almost second nature now. One of the things I noticed the most is my timing with a puppy. And I think at the start I was quite nervous of what the public were allowed to do, what the you know, what the rules were, what the navigating, not letting my pup get scared, you know, all that sort of thing, and really trying to to look out for the puppy. And I realised now they're actually quite resilient. And I think my timing and being able to read the puppy has changed greatly. So I'd probably tell myself to, you know, cool my jets a little bit and just... give myself more time to do things. So definitely when you've got a puppy and you don't want to be rushed into a meeting and you sometimes need 5 or 6 minutes to toilet a puppy, not just 1 or 2. So I definitely have got my timing much better now.
07:10 S1
What do you find the most rewarding or positive about caring?
07:14 S2
Oh, that list is very long. I think the longer I do it, I have developed some incredible friendships. Often it's just location and people that live close by and you see them down the street. But we now have, you know, local gatherings and even beyond what the seeing eye dogs do as a gathering point for us, which is great as well. I work full time, so it can be very challenging to get to the things during the week that is put on for for getting together in a group session. So I really value those times. I can get together with other puppy trainers or or puppy carers that are in the same position as me, so we might just meet for coffee and chat about what we're doing with our pups and what's the challenges that we're struggling with and it's having that support group even outside the formal process that has been just wonderful.
08:07 S1
A kind of a good way of making some some friends, I guess. Yeah.
08:11 S2
And I think even just generally with the public, like you can imagine walking into a Woolworths with an eight week old golden retriever, it takes you an hour and a half to buy two litres of milk. Um, but it gives you just the most wonderful chance. It instils a conversation instantly. You don't have to think about what to say to people. They just come up to you and start talking and asking questions. And and I actually really enjoy that. I don't think I'd be the sort of person to just talk to a total stranger. But when you've got a pup with you, it's an open conversation because it's just all about the pup and why they're doing what they're doing and why you're doing what you're doing. It helps to reinvigorate why I do it. When I'm answering their questions.
09:01 S1
It is kind of funny too, because it's like no one's looking at you. No one's caring about you. Like, you get lots of eyes on you, but it's not at you. It's like you're, you know, your left... ankle. It's really the dog.
09:10 S2
Even in schools, it's the lady who's got Emily. Yeah. It's the, you know, the lady with the dog. When she came to visit the school, nobody remembers my name.
09:21 S1
I do think it's quite funny, too, when you have a dog that has a really human name. Because I wonder if people have ever said, Oh, so Jane and Emily, and Emily and then... Jane. And they're kind of pointing to, you know, the dog as Jane and you as Emily and vice versa.
09:34 S2
I think it is quite sweet when they've got a... human name.
09:40 S1
This is a bit of an interesting one. What do you find the most challenging about caring?
09:44 S2
I think different stages of life bring different challenges. So ten years ago I didn't have grandchildren. I now have four. I just feel that it was an opportunity again that particularly a year ago when went by to our number seven pub. It was different for the grandchildren there, you know, seven and five and a couple of toddlers as well. And I thought it broke their heart and I was like, Oh, okay, they're older now. So saying goodbye hurts more than it used to when they were little. It was a challenge because we didn't really consider that when we got number seven. But then now that we've got Emily, we use the Seeing Eye Dog book that was written. So we read that to the kids quite a bit.
We've got a process now that we go through with the kids just to constantly remind them, you know, Emily's not our dog. Emily's here for a reason and for a purpose, and then we have to say goodbye. But this is why. And give them all the really good reasons. And I've even taken the dog to their primary school as a bit of show and tell. To really help the kids understand why we have to say goodbye. And because we've always got Cairo. I can give them the reassurance that he's not going anywhere. He's our family dog. And Emily belongs to Seeing Eye Dogs. So the challenge of saying goodbye is always a heartbreak day. I pretty much have a compassion day.
11:13 S1
And for you. But then, yeah, when you've got the extra thing of, like, the little people who don't kind of fully understand what it means, but, I mean, sounds like you've got quite a lot in place to kind of reassure them. I hope.
11:24 S2
So. It's never perfect. It's always sad. No, but it used to be my sad. Now I've got to consider that it's other people's sad as well.
11:32 S1
It's funny too, because you think, Oh, you know, it's kind of your responsibility. You're the carer, but it's the whole, you know, the whole family are involved in, you know, different emotional ways.
11:39 S2
Yeah, yeah. And my husband pitches in as much as I do. So it really has a it's become a family event. Yeah. So and I guess the only other challenge really is, again, I guess on the family front, when you've got to go and you know, you want to go and stay at someone's house, it means taking a dog. It means you know that dog is at your hip all the time. Yeah. So I don't find it a challenge, really, at restaurants or going out for dinner and things like that. I find that quite okay. And especially down here, I have heard stories of seeing eye dogs not always being welcome, which really shocks me because I just always feel like people must know now that this is how it works. And I must say, I'm very grateful that in in this area I have never had that. I've never seen it, never experienced it. It's always just been that they're welcome. So that's a highlight for me that it's, I've never been questioned.
12:39 S1
I think it's amazing too. It really sometimes depends on the area. I think like you said, there's quite a high concentration of public areas and maybe handlers too, but I'm not I'm not sure about that one. But you know, there's so many, like you said, dogs out there with jackets on the peninsula that it does help quite a lot. Yeah. So just to finish off, is there anything else that you'd like to share with people about your experiences volunteering.
13:00 S2
I think really one of the things that's really stepped up for me is we've got students down this way that do active volunteering as a subject, and it's a subject that a whole lot of you tend to year 12 students do. And we've got about 200 kids doing it in our region. And I've actually found now that I feel a bit like I work for seeing eye dogs, because all those classes, I never really recognized that I'm a full time active volunteer. And they're doing the course about that, which is not always a career path, but it can be something that you might be highly passionate about that you can still do within another career. And they look at me and go, Oh, well, Mrs. Ling does that. That's her role. So I now visit quite a lot of schools with my dog to actually go to those classes and say, this is what active volunteering looks like in the real world, and not just learning about what that might be.
So that's been a shift just in the last couple of years. But I think overall what it's done for me as a person, as an educator, just in the family, I think it's been a real warm welcome after children have left home and there was this little bit of empty space, I guess. I think one of the things that it helped me with the most is with my puppy development trainers. I've had a couple and I've had Kim and Claire, and they're both amazing at what they do with dog behavioural aspects, and they probably undersell themselves quite a bit as to how much they know and the awareness. Now that when I'm walking with my dog, I often say to myself, what would this be like if I was vision impaired? And that has come with the ten years.
I didn't do that so much at the start, but as I've done it more and more and become more involved with listening to videos and social media of people that actually have blindness and then have to go through the process of getting a dog and what that looks like and what the dog can and can't do and what they can and can't do. It's really become something that I think about a lot when I'm down the street with my dog, or if I take the dog to the city, and it's a slightly different environment than being down on the peninsula and then watching my dog navigate all the different things they're seeing, smelling, hearing all that kind of thing. And I actually find it quite extraordinary what they can do.
15:31 S1
And especially when you kind of have your eight week old puppy with you, you know, you're really young, silly one, and you're thinking about, like, what... they might end up doing. It's kind of mind blowing. It is.
15:41 S2
It is. And we have a lot of canine assistance dogs in our schools. So I look at what dogs can do in a lot of different aspects of life, and hopefully that will grow.
15:52 S1
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and chatting about volunteering and your role in education.
16:00 S2
That's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
16:07 S1
On Vision Australia radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. That has been my interview with Jane Ling, a puppy carer. If you'd like to find out about puppy caring, you can head to our website at said Vision Australia. Org. We're looking for puppy carers in parts of New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria now that are listed on our website. Now I'm going to be joined by Brooke Anderson, senior dog instructor, talking about equipment that seeing eye dog handlers can use when working with their seeing eye dogs. Thanks for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show. I hope you enjoy. Hi Brooke, thanks for joining me on the show today. No, thanks for having me. So we are going to talk a little bit about some of the equipment that our clients will use out with their seeing eye dogs. I'm going to start off with what is seeing eye dogs standard harness like.
16:53 S3
So the seeing eye dog harness that we currently Issue as a standard, um, is a fabric sort of panel that goes from the left side of the dog to the right and on the back of the dog there, it has sort of a yellow patch that says Seeing eye dogs. To give you the identification side, it has a strap that goes around the chest of the dog, and that's a reflective panel. So it has some stitching in there for if the calves do at night time, their light shine on them, and then it has one strap that goes under the belly side, and that's just to make sure it doesn't shift around in terms of the handle. The handle clips up on the left and right side of the dog, and it can be of various lengths depending on the height of the person. So it is a metal handle with a sign on it as well that says please do not distract me, which again gives that identification.
17:43 S1
What is included in a standard Seeing Eye Dogs client pack, which is given out, I guess, during client training?
17:50 S3
Yeah. So when a client starts training, they do get an initial equipment pack and that's just to set the dog up for the first little bit of working. It will cover things such as a dog bowl they won't really appreciate if we don't give that one over. It's their most important thing. If you ask the dog a measuring cup and dog whistle. So that's again all feeding related. We also give two grooming brushes so that they can be groomed regularly a lead, a seeing eye, dog harness, a dog bed and a spare dog bed cover so that they can be washed regularly. It also covers dog boots for clients who require them, a nylabone, which is for enrichment so that they can chew on, and then also a tether as well, so that when they're trying to acclimatise to a house, we can sort of help them with their with that.
18:40 S1
So I think the seeing eye dog leads that are offered to clients are those double clipped ones. Why do you use those leads that have the two clips on the ends? Yeah.
18:51 S3
So in terms of the dog leads that we use, so they do double up on each other? And the reason for that is once you unclip one end, it becomes one long lead. The long lead is for things such as toileting with the dogs. Giving them more space means that they have more sort of opportunity to go on the space that you've designated. But it's also can be used as a makeshift tether as well, if required. The shorter lead is when we're guiding and also walking. So it means that you have a little bit more control over the dog because they're not, you know, nearly a meter in front of you. They're right beside you on a shorter lead. So it just gives more options when sort of working and toileting your dog.
19:33 S1
Or do you always work the dog with the lead as well, not just holding the harness?
19:38 S3
Yeah, correct. So we always have a lead attached to the dog as well as the harness. So when the client's working, they'll hold the harness in their left hand and the lead is just tucked under the fingers that are holding onto the handle. The reason that we need the lead in this situation is because if the client gets to a cafe and needs to pay so they can drop the seeing eye dog handle and hold onto the lead, which is a little. It's not as rigid as the handle, and so it gives you a little bit more flexibility to get things such as your wallet and everything. The other reason that we need the lead is because if we do need to take off the harness at any point, such as toileting, we have a method of still maintaining control of the dog. And we also need the lead for things such as distractions. And so if the dog does become distracted, we can use the lead to support them to get past that.
20:25 S1
We spoke a bit about harnesses before. What are the other types of harnesses that are available and why might you use one over the other?
20:34 S3
There are different harnesses out there now, and so what we sort of have, we have the sort of traditional leather style harness with a lighter style handle. So some clients prefer that one. That one has an easier handle removal mechanism. And so some people prefer that if they are regularly traveling in and out of smaller cars and things. So that's an option as to why someone might look at that. The leather harness also can be used for dogs that are a little bit more body sensitive. And so the handle is designed to sit just above their back and not on their back. And so some dogs are a little bit more comfortable in that. The other harness that we have is a Uniqlo one. And that one is it has fabric body piece and has a single bar handle. So instead of the harness handle having two posts, it only has one single connection to the harness. That one sometimes. It was originally designed as a running harness, but now people are using it for everyday harness use. Ergonomic reasons, but also sometimes for hiking purposes as well.
21:40 S1
Is that the one where the handle is kind of, I guess to the side it's like vertical rather than horizontal.
21:48 S3
Correct? Yep. So that one is a little bit more flexibility in the length that the handle itself offers Forces and positioning as well. There are also with the leather handles you can get ergonomic handles which are slightly offset. And so some people find that a little bit more comfortable, and especially if there are secondary sort of conditions such as arthritis, we may explore something like that.
22:10 S1
So how can you discuss the harness that is right for you with your instructor?
22:14 S3
We do it in two ways. So it's what's right for the client and then what's also right for the dog as well. So there will be situations where the dog may be body sensitive. And so we need to ensure for their well-being. We're issuing a harness that they're comfortable in, in the case where any harness sort of the dog is happy with, we can always explore with the client various options we also do have. Sorry I did miss one before the Julius harness, and that one is sort of a combination. It's a between what our standard harness is and the leather Swiss harness. Yeah sort of a hybrid of the two. And so we can also explore that option It's around just, um, sort of raising it with your instructor. We can bring out various ones and have a look at sort of what might be right for you and your dog.
23:02 S1
So you mentioned before in the kind of class pack or the client pack that some handlers will use boots for their dogs. Why might some handlers use boots for the dogs? And and I guess others not?
23:15 S3
Boots can be really helpful for some clients who are traveling regularly in hot weather, where the path might be too hot to walk the dog if they weren't using boots. Other situations where clients might use boots are in areas where they might be asked to walk in grass that have bindings so it can protect from from them getting bindings within their paws. And it can also help sometimes in cooler environments as well, where the dogs might have to sort of walk on cold patches of ice and things depending on the area that people live in. In terms of boots, it's very much a handle, a choice. Some clients, if they're not walking in the hot weather, the dogs don't require the boot. The only thing to be aware of dog boots is that if clients are using them, that they constantly put them on them. In the months that aren't summer as well, because the dogs are desensitized to them. But if we don't maintain that then and there, we're only using them once a year. Then they get a, you know, they're quite shocked by putting them on. Um, once you do put them on for the first time.
24:18 S1
They, they get unused to them during the winter months.
24:20 S3
Yeah, exactly. And they're like, oh, I've done 11 months without these. What are these boots again? So we do recommend that clients still put them on during the months that they don't require them just to keep up that training.
24:31 S1
And I suppose in that type of thing, it's just kind of putting them on, having a bit of a party, walking around a bit and then making it positive.
24:39 S3
Exactly. Yeah. So it can be just doing their regular route in dog boots, so it doesn't have to be hot for them to wear them during the winter months. And it can just be, you know, doing, doing a walk around the house as well. So yeah, it can be, um, whatever sort of works for the client.
24:55 S1
So another kind of piece of equipment that I have heard asked about a little bit is some of those handlers that are on the go and they are traveling. Would you recommend something like a travel mat for a dog to lie on?
25:08 S4
Yeah.
25:09 S3
So if people are traveling regularly, there are travel mats that fold up pretty small. Some of them also have sort of a handle that you can put over a shoulder or put over luggage and things like that, which make pretty handy. They can be helpful when traveling because it gives the dog a very set location that you want them to lie. And so in new areas, it's a known sort of behavior that they are aware of to do. So if you say bed, you've, you know, found one, they can take themselves off to it. You can also leave them there. And often they feel pretty safe and secure on their beds. The other reason you can use a travel mat is some people use them when on the planes, instead of the sort of absorbent mats that they give you, and it can mean that they don't move around as much as well. So various options that people can sort of explore.
25:57 S1
Do you have any that you have kind of encountered that you would recommend over others?
26:01 S4
So they're all.
26:02 S3
Sort of serve the same purpose. So I think it's more just looking at one that works for you. Um, some roll up, some zip up. I think it's just around what type of travel you do and where. It's going to be the least inconvenient in terms of space. And then if you do need things like a handle to ensure that, you know, it can just go over your shoulder, just taking into consideration things that might make your life easier.
26:24 S1
Are there any other pieces of equipment to consider as a handler.
26:28 S4
In terms.
26:29 S3
Of equipment? Some clients that regularly travel at night time, I'd often recommend looking into putting a light either on themselves, on their backpack, or at least the dog, just to give a little bit of visibility to the team that can. Sometimes clients have a second collar that they put on. The ones that sort of light up. So that's also an option if if lights on a backpack or on on other parts of the dog's body aren't an option equipment wise, there's also we do also have raincoats, but some clients prefer getting something a little bit warmer if they live in really cold climates. If the dog is working, I wouldn't get something that's too thick because you don't want them to sweat, so you'd want to get something that's on the thinner end but still provides that protection. But other than that, most of the equipment is provided in the equipment pack that we initially issue. And the big one would sort of probably be the visibility side of things at nighttime.
27:28 S1
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking equipment with me.
27:32 S3
No, anytime. Thank you for having me.
27:41 S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews with puppy carer Jane Ling and Seeing Eye Dogs instructor Brooke Anderson. If you'd like to find out about becoming a puppy carer like Jane, head to our website at SED dot Vision Australia dot org for more information about how you can change lives through volunteering, and be part of the special community of our volunteers. If you're blind or have low vision and would like to find out more about the application process or chat to a member of our team about if dog guide mobility is right for you. The friendly team at Seeing Eye Dogs would love to hear from you. To enquire about applying or to find out more, please contact us by calling 1800 037 773. That number again is 1800 037 773 or email info at [?Sydney Warrego].
Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, and don't forget to tune in - same time next week for more Seeing Eye Dogs chat with me.
