Puppy caring as a family with Tamara, Lee & Julian

00:50 S1

On Vision Australia radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show with me, your host Harriet Moffatt. Today I've got a bit of a trio of poppy carers joining us. We've got Tamara, Lee and Julian. Well, technically Julian hasn't really joined us because he's only a baby and he can't join in. But we're going to be talking to his parents, Tamara and Lee, about their experiences as poppy carers for seeing eye dogs. Not only do they both work and take the puppies with them into workplaces, but they also have a quite unique experience of having, become parents whilst puppy caring. So we're going to be talking a little bit about how... you can puppy care through a bunch of different life stages and... their experiences with raising a puppy as alongside a baby. 

So without further ado, here are Tamara and Lee talking about their experiences as puppy carers. Tamara and Lee, thank you for joining me on the show today.

01:54 S2

Thanks, Harriet. Thanks for having us today.

01:56 S1

Could you please start off by introducing yourselves?

01:59 S2

So my name is Tamara. We're puppy carers for senior dogs. I work in human resources in organisational development. So we got into puppy caring because it was a really good fit with my job. And what I do with with employee engagement, diversity and inclusion.

02:15 S3

And my name is Lee. I'm Tamara's husband. We also have a little, little son, Julian. He's now seven months. I work as an engineer in the sustainability sector.

02:25 S1

So you've said a little bit about your role. So you guys are raising puppies. How long have you been volunteers for and how many puppies have you raised now?

02:33 S2

So we've been volunteering for just over two years now. We are onto our third full time puppy, and we've done a lot of short term caring in between.

02:43 S1

What made you decide to become puppy carers?

02:45 S3

So we'd always wanted to do some volunteering of some sort, and I think during Covid that sense of community and giving back to community came to the forefront, and we really wanted to to figure out what worked for us and how we could give back. And yeah, we both love dogs. So we thought, why not give it a try and see how it goes? At the time, we had our own our own dog, his own seeing eye dog. And we thought it would be a good, good transition to get him a friend at home and also raise a puppy.

03:16 S1

And I guess like when you're both working full time as well, this is a pretty good volunteer role to be able to do that as well.

03:22 S2

Yeah, provides us that flexibility because the dog comes everywhere we go. So we didn't have to think about, you know, having a pet dog and then transitioning for senior dogs. We didn't have to think about when we travel, who looks after the dog or that puppy training phase. So as Lee said, we had a seeing eye dog who had been over ten years since we had to train a puppy. We we didn't know how we would train a puppy again whilst working full time, and we also knew that we wanted to settle down. Lee had an, engaged to me at the time, but we knew we wanted to settle down. So. And we both come from interstate, so family interstate. So the seeing eye dogs seem to really fit into our lifestyle, and ensuring that the house wasn't empty. 

So we're now, seeing eye dog passed away. It was quite empty. So it was good to have a puppy in the house. The structure from senior dogs to give us that training and that flexibility to still be able to travel and live our lives. Yeah, it was a really good fit for us. And again, as Lee said, that community involvement, there's a lot of interaction with community. When you have a puppy in the shopping centre.

04:30 S1

Could you please tell us a little bit about your current puppy?

04:33 S2

There, you go.

04:36 S3

So our current puppy we have at the moment is Dixie. So we've had her from when she was about three months old, and we've had her for about four months now. She's a sweetheart, very soft puppy. But at the same time, she's a little bit of a terror at home. So she's certainly been a bit of a bit of a challenge to to work into the household. It's been super challenging for her as a, as a puppy, having a, having a young baby in the house. And I think that's where a lot of the jealousy comes, comes in. And she wants to obviously play with all the toys that her little boys playing with. 

And yes, it's a lot, a lot more distractions in the home than than our previous puppies have had. So she's had a bit of time to to adjust in the house. But outside the house she's she's fantastic. She's a confident puppy and she, she wants to get out and about and do a, work as a guide dog.

05:26 S1

I'm going to jump around a little bit chronologically here just to mess with your minds. Your first puppy was actually I mean, you know, being a dog didn't see things but was kind of featured on the show, recently. So you guys raised... Jenna, who was featured a few weeks ago, I think. Can you please tell us a little bit about Jenna and how you're feeling about the experience of having raised her now that she's graduated?

05:48 S2

Yeah. So Jenna was our first pup, so she was matched with us again. I think the senior dog volunteer application process, um, really gets to know the carers and matches the dog based on your own lifestyle. So I feel like Jenna was an extremely good match for us. She was calm and quiet. She was really resilient. We live in a city in a busy lifestyle, really resilient dog. She was incredibly driven to learn, so it was really easy to train. You put a piece of kibble in front of her and she was by your side. She was. She was great. So we're really proud of Jenna to where she's gone to, to be a senior dog and to be matched with somebody... who is blind and able to give a life of their choosing. 

But she also provided us such a great, positive experience as a first time carer. So we didn't get a challenging dog, I guess, and, you know, challenging in the sense of, you know, they're all different. So not, you know, they're not all menaces, they're just different personalities and how they fit into your lifestyle. She's a little...

06:46 S3

Superstar.

06:47 S2

Yeah, Jenna was a superstar. And our trainer always said, Oh, we'll give you a more difficult dog next time. So she was just really calm. She fit into our lives. She gave us such a positive experience. And. And now it's a bit addictive caring for senior dogs. So that's why we're repeat carers. But yeah, incredibly proud. Proud of where she she has got to. But it's made it really hard to compare our other dogs to Jenna because we have had such a successful dog and she was willing to learn and she was easy to train. It's made it really hard not to compare the rest to her, but we, you know, onto our third dog now, I think it's we've reflected to go. They are all different and we just need to work with the dog. 

And our lifestyle is different too from what Jenna had. So our lifestyle is very different. We were we weren't married. We didn't have a baby at the time. She was going off to the office. She had a very calm life, I guess compared to to Dixie. Now, who has a lot more chaos with both office and a baby in the house? Oh, Laura.

07:43 S1

I'm sure like you kind of said to me just before we started recording was that, you know, it wasn't necessarily, you know, guaranteed. Oh, yeah. Jenna looked super clear and super easy. Make it through either. So I guess to some degree, that probably gives you a bit of hope that, you know, even if maybe she was easier in some ways and then did make it. It's not, you know, like no one's out of the running.

08:02 S3

Yeah. I think think how we didn't have any expectations going into it. So we didn't know what to expect, how how the puppies are meant to behave. And, you know, we we had to learn how to be puppy carers. And luckily we had a good puppy development trainer that that gave us a lot of time and effort to show us, you know, all the training that she needed to do. And he was always fantastic to reassure us that, oh, you're doing the right thing. She's doing fantastic. This is normal. She's actually doing really great for for where she needs to be. 

And I think that that set up that, you know, that expectation that it doesn't have to be perfect. We just have to, you know, be their lover, give her experiences and, and then, she'll do the rest for us.

08:43 S2

And I think it's also important to remember they're still puppies. So even with Dixie and you know, she came to us as a pre-starter puppy. So she already had some basic training which we needed before we introduced a new puppy into the household with a baby. But they don't come trained. You still need to put in the time and effort to give them the basic training. Now that time and effort can just be five minutes a day whilst you're having your coffee and then taking them out for a little walk and doing some intentional training. But there was many times we thought Jenna wasn't going to make it. She was goofy. She loved to pack. She was in the office and she had a waggy tail. She was all the time just looking at the person saying, please pat me, please give me some attention. 

And my manager used to joke, and I swear you're bringing your pet dog into the office because she just sought out the pats and licked people's moisturiser, but she still she was a puppy, you know, we have her until 12 months. You still need to let them be a dog. You still need to let them be a puppy and let their personality shine. And then they make their own choices when they go into formal training. So yeah, they come. They're puppies. They're still puppies. You need to let them be puppies.

09:48 S1

So, you did kind of, say you talked about this a little bit earlier is that you've had quite a few lifestyle changes since you started. How do you juggle puppy caring? You know, with looking after a baby.

10:02 S2

Yeah. So I think it's helped that we've had a few puppies in the past. Again, we had said on our application that we were looking to start a family. And and in that process, they still said, that's fine, we'll we'll support you when that time comes. So they'll still be a puppy raiser. And, and we'll always adjust the puppy to your lifestyle and support you, which has been it was never a hurdle, I guess, for us to apply thinking that we're going to to get a puppy having a baby now. So because we've done it a few times, we already know some of the basics. So I don't feel like we need as much support from our trainer, but the support comes from our trainer in how to be intentional with the dog with a baby, because that's what we don't know. 

You know, Jenna didn't have that experience, and in our second dog, Hubble, came halfway or she was with us. But the baby came halfway through when she was with us, so she also had to adjust. So I think we juggle because we're co carers, so there's a lot of managing each other's diaries to see where we're at. So sometimes, you know, I just need a bit of space at home with the baby. You know, we are shaking a lot of toys in front of the baby, which is very excitable for the puppy. So, you know, she might go into the office with Lee one day or, you know, I'm out and about. Sometimes she can come with me, sometimes she can't. And it's just because you're juggling a baby and a dog, it becomes difficult. So, you know, going to the park quite easy, you know, going to the gym by myself. Very easy to take the dog, but, going to Pilates with the dog and a baby - a bit too hard. 

So I think we just manage, you know, each other's diaries and, and also just see where the dog's capacity's at. So there's times where, you know, we could be in a very busy environment. And I know there's lots of birds flying around. So it might be easy to put the dog under the table for branch, but actually there's lots of birds flying around. So that becomes very hard to manage. So. Because our dog at the moment, unfortunately, is a bit bird distracted. She's her true retriever. So we really have to be intentional as to when we take the dog and what we're doing. And then as co carers, you know, one of us puts our hand up and says she's with us today.

12:06 S3

Yeah. So we normally go, you know, either as a family unit and manage it. You know, everybody goes everywhere together or we do divide and conquer. So one of us will take the baby. One of us. One of us will take the dog. 

12:19 S2

So I think to, like, the puppy becomes a part of your family. It's an extension of you. So I think that's regardless of whether, you know, you have a baby or teenage children or what your hobbies are or what workplace you're in. I think, you know, the dog becomes an extension of you. So that's always how we've looked at it, too. So it's not just about having a baby. It's really about an extension of us and how we manage it. As it's had lots of supervision for Dixie, our dog at the moment and lots of juggling our diaries. And I think also with like, what's unique with Dixie because she came to us whilst we had a baby. Her focus on training was very different to the rest. 

So we really had to focus on home behaviours first and foremost with having a little baby and then the outside world would come, you know? So how do we transition those home behaviours like leave it, you know, leave a toy and then how do you transition that to, you know, the birds and the flying leaves out in the real world? So I feel like we've managed her because we've been very intentional in her training, and that would follow a different path than a lot of other puppies, and particularly puppies in her litter. And I think because we're in the home and focus on that home behaviour, there was a lot of incidental training. So I would often keep the baby on one side. So he wasn't mobile at the time. There's only one month difference between between our little baby Julie and puppy Dixie. 

So we got Julian was four months, Dixie was three months at the time, and when we got them, so the baby wasn't mobile, I would often have the baby on one side, and I would have Dixie, the puppy on the other side, and there was lots of incidental trainings, like you leave it and sits and downs, which was really valuable. It kept my sanity whilst having a baby all day and provided that training to Dixie. I think she became a bit of my therapy dog and my companion during that time. And then I think once they're older. So, you know, Dixie's six months old now, so I really enjoy those morning walks with her so she can go on a longer walk. So I get some time out of the house, baby free. 

You know, we walk Dixie. We do that outdoor training now with exposure to dogs and birds and and walking nicely on a lead and that, um, that exhausts her. You know, she's physically having to go for a walk and mentally having to do some good guiding work as a puppy. And then she comes home to nap. So now she's older, she she's like, right now she's sleeping under the desk. And she'll have a morning break and sleep under the desk. So that's also how we manage the dog and the baby, like really going to to Dixie's capacity.

14:59 S1

So, I mean, I think you've kind of touched on this a bit, but how does, um, Dixie behavior on Julian now? Yeah.

15:05 S2

So again, they don't come trained. They don't come trained from the start. Not everyone has a baby. So again, we were very intentional with the matching process that we had a pre started dog. So we needed a dog that was quite calm and chilled in the house, which is how we got Dixie.

15:23 S3

And she was like when we first got her. She was very soft, soft type of puppy, but she also wanted to be involved in everything. So she, she always wanted to to get up in Julian's face and give him a lick and say, here I am, let's, let's play with a toy.

15:37 S1

My... fellow baby. Come on. Yeah, yeah.

15:41 S3

So, so Dixie had to, I guess, learn that that Julian was a baby human and not a puppy, and she hasn't. I don't quite think she's understands that, but she just thinks she's part of the pack, and she, yeah, she's she's taken a lot of effort to give Julian a bit of space, particularly when he's he's trying to play with his toys and, you know, instead of going in at, at his face all the time. Now she's learning. I can go up and I can lick his foot and look at his foot. So. Okay. Um, and just those small things that learning how they can interact, safely, between the baby and the puppy.

16:18 S2

And I think we've focused on setting boundaries and really consistent boundaries. So I mentioned before how I used to have my leg between the baby and the puppy, and then that became the rug. So she knew that she wasn't allowed to cross the rug to get to the baby, and the baby was always on the rug. So we're very consistent with boundaries. It's become a bit challenging now because the baby's on the move. So the baby, you know, rolls off the rug, which makes it hard. She's like...

16:43 S1

Oh, free game now. Yeah.

16:45 S2

She's like, Oh, the boundaries have changed. Maybe I can play. But I think also, again, the puppy development trainers have been super helpful with giving us different tips. You know, we have little training treat machines or even, you know, just the feedback that we're doing so much incidental training that would activate Dixie. So she thought she was in training mode. I was like, actually, no, I just was going to do five minutes with you. But then she, you know, she's older now. And her brain switched on. And so I don't have time to do, you know, your half an hour training. So we just now massage her, just give her a little pat in a particular spot, and then she goes, ah. And she just knows that's the time to relax.

So the trainers have been wonderful at really giving us some tips to manage Dixie. Yeah. Is she ever failed on, you know, toys being waved in her face? I'd be mortified because she she gets a lot of that training. And she did do that at Ikea the other day. And she just looked at the train and went, Oh, I'm beyond this. Teach me something new. I did so well. Yeah.

17:46 S1

Give me... something challenging next time, please.

17:48 S2

Yeah, yeah. Teach me something new.

17:50 S1

So do you have any kind of particular favorite things about caring?

17:54 S2

I think there's a lot of really rewarding benefits that come out of caring to the fact that we get a dog in the house, you know, that are quite calm. So again, they are puppies. So when we say they're challenging or they can be a little terrors, they're puppies. They're not doing anything really bad. They're just doing puppy behavior things. So the fact that we and perpetual puppies, you know, we're we're two years in and we've had three puppies, we always get these little squishy faces and you forget how, how little they come. So I think that's that's a really selfish benefit. Always have a puppy in the house I guess, which is good fun.

18:30 S3

Personally, for me it's more... you know, more about the challenge and learning how to raise a puppy. Like that's something that, you know, hadn't done for, you know, 20 plus years. So it was it was great to, you know, take that challenge on and learn how to train, train a puppy, how to have a well-behaved puppy. Whether they decide to go on to be a senior dog or whether they, they go out into the world to be a pet dog or another, another service, um, we sort of know that, you know, that that challenge of raising a puppy that's, that's well behaved is going to be a good citizen for the world. And then I touched on it briefly earlier about, you know, for me, it's about volunteering and and giving back to the community. 

And it's it's something that we always have to to remind ourselves about, you know, why we're doing this program. It's not, So we can have a puppy all the time. It's because we we want to want to give back and help, help that journey of of this puppy becoming a senior dog. And I think, I think that's helped quite a lot when it comes time to... give the puppy back. It's obviously a very difficult task to to raise a puppy from, you know, eight weeks up until a year old and you get quite attached. So I think I think in those moments we really got to remind ourselves about, you know, why we're doing this. And, and it makes a little bit easier. And of course, once they stick another pup in our face, it's like, Oh, come on.

19:53 S2

Oh yeah, I forgot... how hard it was.

19:53 S1

Are there any particular stories that you would like to share about your kind of time as volunteers so far?

20:02 S2

Yeah. So I think, as I said, when we when we signed up to be puppy carers, we had our seeing eye dog. At the time, we thought he had fantastic behaviours, this little King Charles Cavalier and a seeing eye dog. So we thought it would be good for him to do some transitional behaviours. But he unfortunately passed away by the time we were able to pick up a seeing eye dog puppy. We knew we wanted to settle down, but we wouldn't. We didn't let that be a barrier. But again, it was also the support from our seeing eye dog puppy development trainer, where that's not a barrier. 

There's all different types of ways to be part of this program, from short term caring to puppy caring for short, you know, as pre-settled puppies or a full time carer for a one year dog. There's so many avenues in this program. And we were assured that we would be supported regardless. And also knowing that, again, they're not your dog. So at any time you can give them back, you know, so and even short term caring provides so much benefit to, to senior dogs. So we've had in our life circumstances, Jenna, when we were, you know, together, we got engaged around the same time, she was our first puppy. She came to our wedding, which is really exciting. She was our she was our bridesmaid, our bridal party, and I, she probably stole the show, to be honest. I'm sitting there with little waggy tail at the front and on good behaviours. 

We then, we fell pregnant too. So before the wedding we were pregnant and we knew Jenna was going in for training one one week after our wedding. So she had a big, big party before she went off to formal training. And we had spoke to our trainer about what it would look like post Jenna going into training, knowing that our baby was due a month later and there was no way we could pick up a puppy with only a few weeks before a new baby, it would just have been chaos. So we again, Jenna was this little superstar. She was really chilled dog and willing to learn. 

So we got another second dog short. Very short notice. It was really overnight because we obviously kept puppy development trainer informed about what our choices were and what we wanted and how can they support us and we can support their dogs. So we ended up with Hubble in, I don't know, maybe three months before Jenna was about to go to training. So we had two dogs, so we had to, you know who I feel like just showed Hubble the ropes. We didn't have to do much with Hubble because Jenna, I think, as you would have heard from the last show, she had so much initiative to take the lead and willing to learn. And as co-chairs, we were able to take two dogs. 

You know, Jenna was already calm and, you know, continued to go into the office. And Hubble, we looked at those home behaviors or still took into the office. Sometimes I talk to into the office. My workplace is really flexible and fantastic. So they they were happy with that and that. But that was a very intentional strategy to make sure that Hubble had the behaviors before we gave birth. Yeah. So she already had the, you know, sit down and well mannered home behaviors in place. So I don't know if we'd take two dogs again at the same time. Probably not whilst we have a baby, but it was a really intentional strategy and there was times where we went, this is too much. 

Unfortunately, Hubbell had... UTI, so she had some, so she had some urinary infections, and so she was peeing constantly and it was too hard whilst pregnant to sit down and to always clean up pee. But it wasn't her her fault and became a habitual behavior. And we said to Seeing Eye Dogs, we have to give it back. It's too much. But she went to another carer, broke the habit and then came back as a really great dog. So again, that was a lot of support from Seeing Eye Dogs. It was also for us to say it's a bit too much for us right now, but we got the support from Seeing Eye Dogs. We broke the habit, came back and she was a brilliant dog. Awesome. And then Jenna went in for training. 

Then we continued with Hubble. She obviously went off to the kennels and had a bit of a bit of respite whilst we had the baby. She came back when the baby was one year, sorry, one week, one week old, one week old and the trainer came back and said, All right, here's some firm strategies. So when the baby wakes, he cried. Hubble was taught to go on a bed, so it was, you know, keep out of the way and... once we had to give it back to Seeing Eye Dogs, she would still do that, you know, the baby would cry. She would go on her bed. Wow. It was just really strict boundary setting and behaviours. 

So... we had the two dogs. So Hubble was there for the for the birth, I guess she came to a lot of hospital appointments with me prior to that. And was there for the first few months whilst I was settling in as a new mum and again gave me that sanity and companionship during that time. And then, and then we had to give it back to Seeing Eye Dogs. And then, then Dixie came along. So Dixie is now gonna she's literally again one month difference to Julian. So she's growing up with similar milestones. And so she'll be at Julian's birthday and... first Christmas. So it's just been so nice to... have these dogs at the same time, we've had life milestones so we can remember them in a particular way. Yeah. It's just been really, really wonderful.

25:19 S1

And just to finish off, are there any messages that you have either for the general public or for anyone considering caring?

25:26 S3

For me, it's it's both challenging and very rewarding. So, you know, some sometimes days are not easy. Sometimes they're, you know, they're very rewarding. So that's the biggest, biggest takeaway from my end. It it seems like a lot of work initially, but once once you get trained yourself and learn how to do the training, it's it's much easier for your next puppies. And for us, it doesn't really. Impact our lives as much as we thought it would. So obviously, having your own pet dog, you're very limited to what you can do. Whereas having a seeing eye dog puppy, it gives you the freedom. You know, they can go everywhere with you pretty much. So we're not really limited to how how we want to live our lives compared to if we had a pet dog. So it's a good, a good balance for us. 

26:16 S2

And I think, you know, we've had really supportive puppy development trainers, you know, so staff have seeing eye dogs who are able to adjust the training for us in our lifestyle and obviously keeping the dog's best interest at heart. So I think there is a lot of flexibility and so much support that senior dogs provide, because they do want the best experience for the carer and for the dog. So outcomes for, for both parties, and we've genuinely felt that, you know, we've had huge milestones or even, you know, going to hospital and having to drop the dog at, you know, that same day to say, Sorry, we can't look after the dog. But there's never it's never felt like a burden. There's just been genuine support for both us and for the dog. Yeah. 

And the carers group, the carers group are fantastic too. So you get to meet a lot of the same carers of the same, of the same litter and of other litters. And I think that group's also fantastic to again have those last when you go, Oh, the dog stole the toilet paper roll, you go, My dog did too. So again, they're still puppies. But I think you can have a laugh about it too, because in public there is that expectation that they're well behaved and trained. But behind the scenes you do know they're still puppies and you can have a laugh. So I think that's also a really great. Community piece, I guess, that we've been able to be involved in.

27:41 S1

Well, thank you so much. Yeah, not only for the volunteer work they do for, but for also coming on the show today.

27:47 S2

Thanks, Harriet.

27:48 S3

No worries. Thanks for having us.

27:55 S1

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Tamara and Lee, talking about puppy caring and life of a senior dog puppy with a baby in the house. 

If you'd like to find out more about seeing eye dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at SED dot Vision Australia org. Don't forget that we are now looking for volunteer puppy carers in quite a few regions of the east coast of Australia, including around Sunshine Coast, Brisbane and Gold Coast regions of Queensland, in New South Wales, at Central Coast and parts of northern Sydney and then in Victoria. We've got a pretty wide range of regions around Greater Melbourne, metro regions as far down as Mornington Peninsula, parts of the Yarra Ranges as well as Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong areas and surrounding. 

You can head to our website at SED dot Vision Australia dot org for the full list of locations as well as information about puppy caring, or you can head to our next Puppy Caring Information session, which is of the evening of June 13th. Don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of The Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio.