00:36S1
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show with me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. On this show, we have three segments for you. First, I'll be joined by youth program participant, a graduate from 2022, Jasmine Devlin, who is going to be talking to us about her experience in the program and the next steps as she works towards getting her own seeing eye dog and her involvement supporting the International Guide Dog Day Giving Day on April 24th. Then Doctor Ashe Mooney from Seeing Our Dogs vet team joins us talking about kennel cough. To finish off, we have some recall training tips with puppy development trainer Steph Shaw from the archives. Now onto our first segment talking with seeing our Dogs client, Jasmine. So have you had low vision or been legally blind since you were five?
01:42S2
I yes, I always had, like, bad vision. But I actually went legally blind. I was about year five, when I completely went legally blind. So, yeah.
02:02S1
So you took part last year in the Seeing Eye Dogs youth program. Could you please tell us a little bit about that? And what made you decide to take part?
02:11S2
Yeah. I actually took part in. It was two years ago now. Not last year. Yeah. I have always been, like, a counselor. I started my came on when I was five, when I got diagnosed. And my mom, she had a guide dog for her at Guide Dogs Australia. And it was, we heard that Australia does seeing eye dogs. So we're like, Okay, I'm gonna give this a crack. I'm like, it's going to help me be way more independent, not be reliant on other people. I like to explain it like a cane is an object finder and a dog is an object avoider, which is two different, very different things, which is very helpful.
03:07S1
And I guess having grown up with your mum with a dog guide, that kind of would be part of that inspiration and made you think maybe that would be something that you could find out about for you?
03:18S2
Yeah. I'm actually, I'm actually getting my dog at the end of this month, actually.
03:25S1
Oh, that's so exciting. Congratulations.
03:28S2
Thank you. So, yeah, I get to go down and get my own dog, so that's exciting. And at the end of the programme, I definitely knew that I wanted to do so called mobility for my preferred mobility aid. Yeah.
03:47S1
And so basically, I suppose that was just really the kind of starting that part of the stepping stone and setting you up. And now it's about to kind of happen. How exciting.
03:56S2
Yeah. Yeah. It... definitely like it told you and showed you what it would be like to be working with a dog, looking after it. Like totally doing it. Because it's not just you can't just fold up your dog like you can, like, so it's an actual human living thing that you can take care of. And it really showed that, how to do that. And if you wanted to continue that process after that, the camps and the program, it showed you really got to realise, Okay, I really want to do this or like, someone I know, someone that I was with decided God isn't for me, and that's fine. It's it's such an individual thing.
04:51S1
From what I heard about the youth program, I thought it was kind of quite cool that it gave people, I guess, the opportunity to decide whether I suppose, that amount of kind of work, I guess, in terms of looking after the dog, because it's not. Yeah, like like you said, you can't just fold them up. There's a bit of a lifestyle factor and that isn't there.
05:07S2
Yeah. A lot of younger with younger participants. There isn't that many because like the school, which people don't think that that's a big enough thing, but it's pretty much like work. You go there throughout the week and like a dog is, can be managed in a school like it can be work and managed in a work environment.
05:32S1
I guess to some degree probably depends on the school environment and how you get to school, whether that's something that you really want to go down.
05:40S2
Yeah. Because not yeah, not a lot of people want to take the dog with them to school, and that's fine. But, it's you really got to think of what you are actually doing as well. Like, is there going to be enough workload for the dog? Then early, like if you're only going to use it like once a week, it's not going to be the right they've already made for you, you know.
06:06S1
Coming and doing turf and stuff. That would be a pretty good workload. And is that the thing that you're probably most excited about taking your dog and doing?
06:14S2
Yeah, that and like I go to Melbourne for appointments all the time. So I, that's going to be way easier for me. Yeah. Like I do dance classes in that. And then I help out with my church all the time. And so that... is going to be so much more better for me. Considering like, oh, most of the time it's not. And I'm completely like, not fine. So it's just like, I can't say I'm going.
06:47S1
Yeah, well, I'm very excited for you to, um, to start that class journey and kind of get to know... your dog. One of the reasons that we kind of, I guess, are talking is that you're going to be, um, supporting the Seeing Dogs giving day. So, I guess I just wanted to ask to finish off, you know, do you have anything that you would like to say to anyone considering other kind of like supporting seeing dogs or getting involved with or that's kind of like volunteering or donating?
07:15S2
If you can. I definitely consider donating because it it takes a lot of work to train amazing dogs. And, you know, as people know, money just doesn't appear out of thin air, which would be really cool if I did live in Australia with their dogs. Like everyone support if they can because it is such a good program. Um, and it's such a beautiful place to go to and the dogs are amazing and they really do help people's lives with all this stuff. So if you can please think about donating or like fundraising or anything, like anything you can do, even if it's like $2 or something, it doesn't matter how, every every bit counts.
08:02S1
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. And best of luck, for meeting your new senior dog soon.
08:09S2
Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
08:17S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. That was my interview with Jasmine Devlin, graduate from our youth program in 2022 and soon to be seeing eye dog handler. How very exciting for her. We wish her all the best. If you'd like to support seeing eye dogs on the International Guide Dog Day Giving Day on April 24th. Donations can be made online at Seeing Eye Dogs walkthrough - forward slash - giving day. That is again Seeing Eye Dogs [?augus] forward slash giving day.
Now here's seeing eye dogs vet doctor Ashe Mooney talking about kennel cough. Can dogs get a cold?
08:57S3
So dogs can often get something called kennel cough, which is a disease complex. That's most often when you hear a dog coughing or sneezing, it's typically kennel cough, at least in Australia... and the signs often present as a little bit of what we call a goose honk cough. So a really kind of hacking, almost like a goose, making their honk sound, coming from the dog. Sometimes they'll have sneezing, sometimes not. They may or may not have discharge from their nose, just like a human when they get a cold. Or they could sound audibly congested, just like a human would sound.
09:32S1
So why should owners ensure that their dogs have up to date vaccinations for things like kennel cough?
09:38S3
So kennel cough is often spread, one, in a kennel environment, as the name states, or a lot of the time in dog parks and things like that. But the virus can actually live on surfaces. And you can your dog can get it from just walking past another dog at a cafe who might have it. And it's really important to vaccinate them, because then you're ensuring that your dog will have a much lower chance of getting kennel cough if they are exposed to another dog that might have it. And sometimes the other dog that has it isn't even showing symptoms of it. Kind of like when Covid was a big deal. You could have people spreading Covid who weren't sick. And also similar to Covid, the vaccine doesn't always 100% prevent the dog from getting the disease, but it significantly lowers their risk.
That being said, if a heavily infected dog is coughing and sneezing right in your dog's face, it might still get the disease. Just because the load of the virus is so high that it surpasses what the vaccination is able to do.
10:38S1
And if your dog is not vaccinated for kennel cough and it does, um, get it is the, uh, I guess, virus likely to be worse in symptoms?
10:49S3
Yeah. So typically because their immune system hasn't had a chance to formulate a response through a vaccine, they will get much more unwell. And in private practice, I've actually seen a number of kennel cough cases turn into a full blown pneumonia in which the dog has to end up staying in an oxygen cage on multiple antibiotics. And that that can be quite scary because obviously when you can't breathe, things can get very serious very quickly. And any time an animal ends up in an oxygen cage, it also ends up becoming quite costly to the owner.
11:21S1
So I guess when we're talking about, I guess, kennel cough being a little bit like a cold, also like a cold. Not something to be taken up super trivially either.
11:30S3
Yeah. Definitely not. And you know, if it's really mild, you just hear your dog cough once or twice. You can you can use sort of common sense, like you would if you had a child or yourself. You know, if they're still bright, you don't want them spreading it around. And so you don't want to be taking them out to the dog park and stuff. But if they're starting to become lethargic, you're noticing discharge from their nose or their mouth, or they just don't seem quite themselves to you, maybe they've stopped eating. Those are all signs that you should probably take them to the vet, just to make sure that it isn't turning into something more serious, or they might need antibiotics or something like that.
12:04S1
Is there anything else that we've missed that is good for owners to know about kennel cough?
12:09S3
I guess it's important to know that kennel cough is not contagious to humans. Sometimes I get asked that in private practice. So if your dog has kennel cough, you don't need to stress, you know, if you're immunosuppressed or something, you're not going to get it from your dog. And if you have cats or anything like that, they won't get it from your dog either. There are certain animals that can get kennel cough from dogs. But it's not very common. And that would be on a case by case basis to speak to your veterinarian about.
12:43S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia radio. That was talking kennel cough with Doctor Ashe Mooney from Seeing Vet Team. Don't forget to chat to your own veterinarian for any health concerns for your dog.
Now I'm going to be playing a repeat of some recall tips with puppy development trainer Steph Shaw. I hope you find this useful and thank you for listening. Hi Steph, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S4
Thanks, Harriet. Glad to be here.
S1
So I just wanted to talk about something that comes up quite a bit and is a pretty important thing for, well, anyone's dog, whether it's a single dog, a puppy or a working dog or a pet dog, which is recall for anyone that doesn't know what does what, the kind of definition of recall or what would you consider to be a successful recall?
13:27S4
Yeah. So that's, I guess, getting your dog to come back to you. It's like the ideal recall is no matter what your dog's doing or where they are, you can call them. They'll come back to you to the point where you can take the collar, clip deletion and bail out. So yeah.
13:45S1
So and like you said, when it kind of be in an environment, I mean, the ideal thing really is that it's not just, I guess when you're in your house and you're calling your dog to you, you know, to feed it dinner, because that's going to be pretty easy because the dog's going to be kind of halfway there. Mm, the minute that you start to step in that direction, but that's going to be amongst kind of quite interesting things or you know, we're talking about as well things like recalling around other dogs and kids and food and that type of stuff.
14:13S4
Right, yeah. That's right, it's one of those really important skills, but also one of the hardest to teach, I guess the it's one of those things where teaching the basics of it, like getting the dog to move towards you, is super easy. But then in real life there's so many distractions. So having it really refined and polished, there's just so much work that goes into it.
14:36S1
And what are the other kind of things that I would have mentioned that might make it a little bit harder?
14:40S4
So when we're thinking about like, setting up dog training exercises, I love to think about the 3DS. So there's distance, duration and distraction. So the distance would be like how far you are away from your dog. So if you were touching your dog's collar, took a step back and ask them to come to you. Even if there's so many distractions, they're probably still going to come like you're right in their face there. Whereas if they were all the way across an oval and you call them might be a very different story. There's your distraction. So that's obvious. You know that example of in the House, nothing else is going on. You've got a dinner bowl. You are the best thing around. They are going to come to you.
Whereas, you know, the most common time I see people call their dog and it not work is when the dog's full on playing with another dog, the person calls the dog, and if the dog even hears them, they kind of go, Yeah, nah, nah. And then your duration, I guess, is more, um, like, how often are they getting something good for coming back to you? So when we're thinking about duration and stays, it's, you know, how long can they stay there? But, for a recall, it's, you know, are they expecting every time they come back to you, is something good going to happen? Do they know what's going to happen is that you only call them when you're about to clip the leash on and leave the park, and they start to anticipate like, I don't want to come back to you because I'm not ready to go yet. I am having a lot of fun over here. Yeah.
16:08S1
And I guess as well, you know, when we're talking about, like, distractions, it's also like the environmental factors, right? So, like, you know, if you're at a park, it's not just the dogs. It's also like the sense or whatever's particularly reinforcing for that dog.
16:20S4
Yeah, absolutely.
16:22S1
And is that something you'd consider as well in terms of like that. How you'd reinforce the recall.
16:27S4
Yeah, yeah. And different dogs will have different things that are reinforcing to them. So, you know, some of the dogs that I work with love squeaky toys, even to the point where it's better than kibble, like, if you take their squeaky tug and you squeak it in the park, they will come back to you. Yeah. Whereas for another dog, you could do that, and they would just completely blank you. Like, they don't give a shit.
16:50S1
It's like Labradors and some some with tennis balls and others are like, what is it? Why would I?
16:56S4
Yeah, yeah. So it's about knowing your dog and what's high value for them. And also mixing it up a little bit. Like if they know that if they come, they're going to get one piece of kibble. But, you know, there's a whole group of dogs and they really want to say hi to them. They might bail out, but if there's a chance that they might get, you know, a sardine or a piece of roast chicken that they never are allowed to get, maybe you've got a better chance of actually getting them to come back, because it's that maybe it's that gambling factor. Yeah.
17:27S1
So when we're talking about, I suppose, kind of going to the basics, if your dog has absolutely, you know, no awareness or recourse. I mean, we're maybe talking about a baby puppy here or, or either that or a dog that you've never met before or I don't know. A rescue dog? Yeah. How do you start teaching that baby puppy recall?
17:47S4
Yeah, so one of the ways that they do it that starts even before they go out to their puppy carers is whistle training. So we'd blow the whistle and put the food bowl down. So they're starting to associate. They hear that whistle and something amazing happens. So they start to hear that whistle and come running. And from there it's sort of, building up that distance a little bit. So it might be practicing around the house. When you think your puppy is going to come to you anyway. So not when they're right in the middle of chewing something, but when they're kind of looking bored and vaguely wandering your direction. Call them over. Pup pup pup cup.
And then give them something fun. It might be, you know, in the house, you're the best thing happening. They love you. So even just a bit of a praise and a tickle. It might be a toy, it might be a kibble, doing things like moving away from them. So they're following you. So triggering that bit of a playful chasing instinct... can be super, super helpful, at getting dogs to come back to you. And one of the things that I love to practice with puppies quite young is the collar touch game. So reaching down, touching their collar, and then giving the treat because I see so many dogs that'll come towards you, and then you go to put the leash on and they run away again. So actually sort of teaching that as part of the behavior, come back until I can touch your collar and there's your reward and go and...
19:08S1
Grab and reach for you. And it's going to be This is this is the win here.
19:11S4
Yeah. Yep. And it's about sending them then back to play most of the time. So it's, we're trying to make it, um, they're expecting when they're getting called something good is going to happen. Rather than I'm calling you over and I'm shoving you into a bath tub, or I'm licking your nails, I'm giving you your medication. Yeah. Those things that maybe they don't particularly enjoy doing. Yeah.
19:37S1
So when we've done a bit of recall inside the house and the puppy started to come pretty reliably in those easier, I guess, in those easier or less tempting environments, how do we start to build up and, and or on the in the same vein, if you've got a dog that is kind of or maybe this is actually different, you know, that kind of knows it, but sometimes picks and chooses, how do you, you know, I guess get them to recall, even if the place or environmental, there's a bit more of a distraction going on.
20:06S4
Yeah, yeah. So I guess, safety is really important. So, you know, you're not going to take your dog out with an imperfect recall and take them off leash next to a busy road. That is just asking for trouble. So, setting up something like maybe a longer leash than normal or something like that where you can, um, you know, make sure the coat is off if they've got a training jacket so they know it's different than their normal walk. So you're actually doing a specific exercise. You're going to encourage them to go and sniff and then wait for a moment where they're just sort of looking up from something that's interesting. So maybe they've seen a bird off a little way away and they've gone, Oh, an interesting bird. And then the bird flies off and they go, oh, okay. Call them in that moment because they're going to be looking for the next interesting thing. Um, and they're very likely to run over to you and again, doing some steps away, um, making cheerful noises. So think like, playschool presenter, like, Whoa, look what's happening over here?
21:07S1
Yay. A bit of a crouch and yeah, gesture and stuff.
21:10S4
Absolutely. Yeah. So thinking about, you know, when puppies are playing with each other, um, if one puppy wants to get the other puppy to chase them, what do they do? They do that, like play bear. They get all bouncy and silly. They might pick up a toy and wave it around like, I've got this. Do you want this? So taking some of those just silly, fun things, the high pitched noises, the whistling, um, to just really encourage the puppy to come and enjoy your presence for a little bit. Call them over, give them a trait, have a play, have a cuddle, have a great time with them so that then you can send them back into the world. But they're thinking, oh, I kind of didn't want that to end. I was having such a great time hanging out with you, and now you're sending me out into this boring paddock with nothing to do. Um, so having that leash, there is that bit of a safety backup. So they can't mess up. They can't run away. Yeah, but you're not using it to drag them in towards you over and over again. You're using all of those other things to get them in.
22:12S1
And that's kind of also to some degree, a kind of legal requirement, isn't it, that if a dog is going to be awfully they have to you have to have kind of effective control. Right? So just as a note, I'm assuming that, yeah, if you don't have that, yeah, if you don't have that perfect recall, that long line also is a little bit of a kind of legal precaution as well to take or safety.
22:33S4
But yeah, absolutely. Like I think we've all had the situation of driving down the road and seeing a dog off leash next to the road. And you don't know what it's going to do. And it's that moment of panic. Scary. It's very scary. So, yeah, you know, keep keep your pup safe. But, you know, it's building from, you know, maybe the long line depends, like, on your puppy and your situation, but maybe you've got somewhere safe that you can let them do play. So, you know, maybe you go to... the house of a friend who's also raising a seeing eye dog puppy or something. Let them have a bit of a play and practice in that controlled environment of calling them away from play. And you might need to really reduce your distance when you do that. So, you know, calling them from the other side of the yard isn't going to work, but maybe going up, touching the collar, getting them to come one step, giving them a treat and then sending them both back into play.
23:27S1
And kind of starting before they're right in that middle of the kind of...
23:30S4
Yeah, waiting for waiting for a pause in the play. So healthy dog play will have ups and downs. They'll do their zooming around and chase, and then you'll see them break off and sniff the ground. And that's your perfect time to. Hey, come over here. And we, we do want, with our recall to build up to the point where we can call them away from, you know, maybe chasing an animal or playing with a dog that's looking like it's getting a bit too much. But it does take a lot of patterning of, um, just building that muscle memory of hear the word come to you, hear the word come to you until they're not really consciously thinking about it. Because if they consciously think about it, it's not that might...
24:10S1
Consider against it.
24:11S4
Yeah. Actually, I'd rather chase that bird. Thank you, yeah.
24:15S1
And so just to kind of, I guess finish off, you know, if you've gone that way and you think, oh, you know, I'm, I'm ready for this. And then your dog has, you know, I guess, made that choice to maybe not come. Then what might you do?
24:29S4
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess there's two main situations where that happens a lot. And one would be the dogs dashed out the front door. So, you know, you've had a guest over. They've stood around chatting and the dogs just go and you say, dog, come inside and they go, Oh, are they not? So in that situation, um, what you don't want to do is run after the dog because they see you coming and they go chase your game and they run off. But doing something like dropping kibble or even if you don't have kibble, like, pretending that you have and going, Oh, this is really interesting over here. Look what I found. If they love the car, maybe unlocking the car, and they'll hear the car and go, oh, we're going on an adventure.
So sometimes those sorts of things work, or otherwise, just slowly following them down, ask them to sit and then get them and then go back inside, to avoid the chase. If you're at the park and they've just given you the finger and gone, nah, don't want to, think about what can I change? What can I make easier? So standing around calling them over and over and over, and I see people do this in all different voice. Dogs come. Count. Dog biscuits. Dog, dog. Come here. And the...
25:45S1
Yelling? Probably most helpful.
25:47S4
Yeah, exactly. And the dog just doesn't. It's not getting through. It's not working. So the change of tone of voice doesn't really do a whole lot, but, thinking about, Oh, can I move closer to them? Can I use different body language? Could I do I have my whistle? Do I have a squeaky toy? Like, what can I change about this setup to make it more inviting for my dog to come over, or harder for them to ignore me? Yeah. Sometimes getting other people involved can help. So if your dog is wrestling with another dog, and every time your dog thinks about coming away, the other dog jumps on top of them and restarts. That's a really common one. So even asking the other person to also call their dog can give you a much better chance of getting your dog to come back to you.
26:33S1
And I guess in in those kind of circumstances too, is like setting it up better next time so that if they're going to, you know, if they're not going to come back, then maybe it's not quite time for that experience. Yeah, yeah.
26:44S4
And I've definitely had the situation even with like really well trained dogs that they just have an an off day and they just really want to roll in a dead rabbit. Oh. And I just have to go up to them. I'll call them back and I just go, you know what? You've lost your off leash privileges for the day. Clip the leash on. Off we go. Like there are days. You just have to do that. Yeah, as well. And at the end.
27:05S1
And at the end of the day, you know, it happened. And it's not something that they should be punished for.
27:11S4
Yeah. You know, they they're dogs. It's they like asking them to leave all these amazing things, about being a dog. The best thing about being a dog is using your nose, playing with other dogs, rolling and dead rabbits. So asking them to leave all of that come here and focus and switch your brain on. You know, sometimes they're just not in the mood for it. That's so understandable. Some days you just want to chuck a sticky. You're not going to work, I'm sure. So, yeah, they're the same.
27:43S1
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for giving us some great tips on on recall. It's... a really important one. So anyone with a dog out there worth a worth a practice. You've been listening to this show on Visio Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews. The first with Jasmine Devlin from our Seeing Eye Dogs youth program in 2022, talking about International Guide Dog Day, Giving Day, as well as her Journey Post Youth program. Then from Doctor Ashe Mooney we spoke about kennel cough, and then to finish off we had a repeat from our archives with Steph Shaw, puppy development trainer, talking about recall.
Thank you for listening to the show and don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show. Or if you'd like to find out more about seeing our dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, you can head to our website at sed.visionaustralia.org if you'd like to make a donation on April 24th to our Seeing Dogs International Guide Dog Day appeal, you can head to that website and make a donation online at Seeing Eye Dogs [?Morgan] forward slash giving day.
