Settling tips with Abi and Kylie

00:11 S1

On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show - with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I've got some great tips from two of our excellent returning guests, Abi Howes, Puppy Development trainer, and Kylie Gersch, training program manager and instructor. We're going to be talking about dog settling that is both relaxing into new homes and environments and being settled out and about in public. As you may have dogs coming into your home or bringing dogs into new places over the holiday seasons, I hope you find these tips helpful. 

Our two guests are going to chat about this topic for dogs of all ages, and how we can work from those baby eight week old puppies up to adult working, seeing eye dogs and support them into new homes or out working. I hope you enjoyed this discussion as much as I have. Hi Abby and Kylie, thank you for joining me on the show today. Thanks for having us. 

01:06 S2

Thanks for having us, Harriet.

01:07 S1

So we're going to talk a little bit about a few, I guess, a few kind of parts of settling and what settling is, and in particular focusing on the different ages because... you two, between you actually kind of look after a pretty wide age range of dogs. If you guys would like to tell the audience, if anyone is not aware what age range you look after, that would be great.

01:30 S3

So I might start. Hi, I'm Abby, I'm a puppy development trainer, so I work with our pups from eight weeks until about 12 to 14 months when I hand them over to Kylie and her team.

01:40 S2

Thanks, Abby. Yeah. Kylie Gersh, the training manager here at Seeing Eye Dogs. And as Abby said, we work with the dogs that are around 12 to 14 months, up until about 2 to 3 years, just depending when they come into training as an instructor. We work with dogs up until they retire, which can be anywhere upwards to ten years old, so.

01:59 S1

We can't exactly expect the same of our baby eight week old puppies, as we might have, are fully trained working dogs. There are two particular types of settling that we are referring to. Would anyone like to explain what those two things might mean?

02:13 S3

So as the instigator of the confusion, I will take that one on. So we have settling as in the ability to settle in a space calmly and engage with the environment in a calm manner that might be on a bed or in a down, or the other form of settling as in, to settle into a new environment. When you get a new puppy and a new dog might be joining your household, whether that be short term for the Christmas break or longer term because they're a new member of your family.

02:41 S1

When we're talking about both of those, would the difference almost be like a duration type of thing? 

02:46 S3

So there is a difference in what you might expect. I suppose that might be what you're thinking. So a pup that can settle on a bed, you may expect that they would potentially then fall asleep and that duration would last a bit longer. And the speed at which they settle, at least for a puppy, should be a little bit quicker in that known environment versus a more novel environment they may not have been in before. You may see a slightly longer duration to settle, or their ability to hold. That settled behavior is more easily interrupted by things passing in the environment, particularly for your younger puppies. Kylie, would you want to speak for your older dogs and expectations in those two different environments?

03:24 S2

I guess... just around settling a dog into a new house that are known to you. So it's... kind of having to get to know each other and them knowing the environment as opposed to maybe a dog that you've been with for a little while and that you're supporting them to settle into a new... if you're out and about, maybe you're starting a new activity that you would like them to settle at work or in another place. So they've already developed a relationship with you. So I think sometimes there's different approaches. If you know the dog or if you've worked with the dog for a little while or the dogs are known to you.

03:59 S1

Would you describe settling as specifically being in one spot kind of stationary, or they can kind of be settled, but also loosely moving about?

04:08 S2

For me, I guess when we're talking about adult dogs, I would say when I think about a dog being settled would be more that the dog's showing relaxed body language and they might be slower in their movements, or they might be what I would consider resting. So laying down and loose body language, not overly alert or getting up and down frequently to your movements or other movements and just being able to remain relaxed.

04:36 S3

I would say that is very similar for our younger dogs as to what we would expect, the amount of up and down that we would probably consider settled in a pup is going to be a lot more so. Pups can also be settled in play. So I might have a ten week old puppy that is moving around engaging with different toys, but they're engaging in independent play, appropriate play. By and they're somewhat sticking to the same area, and I would consider them quite settled as long as they had that nice loose body language and they were able to do that sort of self-soothing, independent activity.

05:11 S1

When we're talking about that settling into a particular environment, what are some tips with our younger dogs in particular, to help them really get more acclimatised into a new environment?

05:22 S3

So I think it's really important to make sure that pup has an understanding of where appropriate toileting spaces are and things like that, just to help reduce any frustration they might be feeling if they are needing to access bathrooms. So making sure they're well toileted before they enter, and also that they have an understanding of where they're meant to go to avoid some human frustration that may impact their settling in terms of accidents that may occur in the house, obviously within a range of age appropriate, you are more likely to get just accidents from your sort of under 12 weeks old versus, say, a six month old puppy that's coming in.

05:55 S1

Would you say that you can trust them?

05:56 S3

Less the younger ones. They just have a smaller bladder, so you're more likely to see those inside accidents. So making sure that, say, a six month old is toileted before they come in, you have a little bit more time to work with before you need to engage with them and make sure that they know where their toileting. But if we can just reduce some of that frustration around potentially entering a space while already feeling some discomfort can help. Making it available to them to have a wand to have a sniff, I think, helps the dog settle more than being able to sniff around, particularly if you've had or have other dogs in the home being able to sniff them out, potentially before they actually engage with them in any capacity can be really helpful and making it really clear where their space is if the dog. 

So our dogs are often crate trained in the puppy program, so making it really clear where the crate is and allowing them some time to settle, getting some of their energy out ahead of time as well. So going for a bit of a walk before they enter the home where they ask you. Asking them to settle and be calm can also really help.

06:50 S1

If it's not a dog that you are familiar with, would you give any particular other advice? For example, if another dog is coming into your home and you're not familiar with them and their behavior.

07:00 S3

It can be really great to go for a walk together with you and your dog. If you have an extra set of hands and get that engage and excitement of the two dogs out of the way. We work a lot with Labradors and Golden retrievers. So as long as there's no dietary requirements in the mix, a little bit of feeding and training can go a very long way in building some rapport. Kylie, any other suggestions?

07:21 S2

I think it would be the same because the dog isn't known to you. I guess. Kind of trying to understand the dog a little bit before going in, introducing like if you've got other animals and pets, consider how you would introduce them, consider how the house is set up and maybe setting that up prior to when the dog's coming. I think. Abi, you touched on some really great points around making sure that the dog has done their business before coming in. Even for adult dogs, that's important. Allowing them some time, even if you don't want them in the kitchen or other areas later on, is actually allowing them to have an explore with adult dogs in training, we usually suggest that that's on a lead or a longer lead, so you still have some control or management of them in that as they're exploring, just to prevent anything that may be unwanted behaviors if you can, and then finding them a spot that they know that's their area. 

And for adult dogs we do use crates like in puppy program, but also some of the dogs we use tethers, which is basically a lead that we use to attach to a piece of furniture, usually something very heavy, that that means that the dog can't pull it over, that the dog is basically what we call on, on tie down. And that's because it's really important for our clients, as they often use that because it's portable and they can take maybe if they're going to the gym, or are they going to a friend's house that they can take that with them. So if you do have an adult dog, the instructor might let you know whether the dog's most comfortable in a crate or tether, or whether you could use either.

08:53 S3

We often will pair sort of a bed or a lighter visual space for our young puppies with the tether. So having a visual point of difference between your regular flooring and the space that they're in can also help indicate to some puppies that it's kind of wind down time. So by placing them on a bed or on a tether that is near a bed, they will actually sort of associate the two things together. And you may find they actually just naturally go into a more settled, slow, loose body language, purely just from association. At least we have found that with the puppies.

09:25 S1

Yeah. Great point Abi. Yeah, if I have a very young puppy who is tethered on a bed, is that you have to be very careful that you're not tethering them to anything. That might be like a tasty chair leg.

09:37 S3

Absolutely. I would hope that Kylie, with your older dogs, you don't encounter this too much, but definitely with our younger pups, those ones that are teething. Just be aware of what you're tethering them to, because if it looks like a chew toy, it can be used as a chew toy or make sure that you are providing something Think appropriate and alternative. So for our younger pups that maybe haven't got that much experience with tethering, or they may not have that much experience in the crate, and we're needing to settle them in a space where they need to be restrained by tether or in the crate. 

Giving them something like a nylabone with some peanut butter on can really help them settle. Or a Kong. A frozen Kong in this weather is amazing because it helps cool them down as well. So also make sure that while being settled is about settling into a space and also being able to settle calmly, we need to make sure we're providing them with something to occupy. If they are new to an environment, new to a home, or new to settling in general.

10:31 S2

Yeah, absolutely. And like you mentioned, Harriet too, having things that are not chewable or less things that are chewable in that area is very helpful. And Abi mentioned some great things that that can be utilized there. Also in regards to if you're a handler that has a leather lead, I always recommend not using a leather lead to tether them with because they love to chew on them, even adult dogs. So usually we're provided with a type of tether that means it's less likely to get chewed.

11:00 S1

Yeah, I was thinking of multi-animal homes. So you've got, like, multiple dogs in the home and you're asking the dog to settle into that, or even potentially something kind of novel that the dog might not have encountered encountered before, like a cat... do you have any advice for those types of scenarios?

11:18 S3

Often the case in puppy program, particularly when you get your first puppy coming home, or if you are going to be home over those big holiday periods where everyone's away and you've nominated yourself to take on a second puppy, it can be quite challenging. So it's really good to think about how close in age are these puppies, and how able are they to regulate their own play together? Or how much do you need to supervise the play? It is absolutely fine to them. Have a play and have a run around the backyard. 

But if they're very, very close in age, you may need to actually instigate some separation. So one's on the tether and one's in the crate, one's in the crate and one's loose every now and then, just to actually allow them to bring that emotional level down, if they're really heightened and in that really high energy state, they actually can't settle into a new space, nor can they actually settle in terms of being able to lie nicely on their bed. Make sure that you are taking the time ahead of any big events to get energy out of them so that they aren't walking in full of beans. You're just going to have a losing battle in that regard and do a little bit of distraction work. 

So I often find that if we pop both pups on a tether across a room and you just work on rewarding feet on the ground, and then you build two bottoms on the ground, and then we build to laying down, and we just slowly work on rewarding those incremental improvements in that ability to settle. The actual interest level can move away from the other animal to you, and then you can work on reducing those rewards out. A lot of our puppies haven't had experience with cats before. We often get requests from the instructors of, you know, has this dog lived with a cat before? So, Kylie, maybe you can tackle the cats.

12:58 S2

Yeah. Look, cats don't usually like dogs in rushing at them or into their faces. A lot of the time I experience that cats go hiding for a little while and when a dog arrives. So it's just I think it's thinking about both animals and what they need with the cat. We often suggest baby gates or something in an area. Food is off the ground because Labradors would always eat food on the ground, but baby gates or areas where the cat can easily get away. But having the dog initially on tether or with you, they will smell a lot. And if they've never lived with a cat, they will probably be more active in there looking for what what they're trying to smell. So just allowing them that time and hopefully to relax. 

I think, Abi, you mentioned really great information about getting their engagement back with you, using food. If they are relaxed or they are able to lay down or showing you any signs in their body language that they are a little bit less alert and relaxed is just rewarding. That, and over time, hopefully the cat resurfaces and you can get more opportunity to reinforce or reward with food or praise the behaviors that you're wanting around that. Sometimes you might have to physically separate them. So have the cat into another room if they're particularly bothered by their new furry dog friend that's come in.

14:15 S1

Yeah, it is a very novel and interesting, smelly, you know, surprise. If they kind of walk in there like I've never seen, like, what is that smell? They're quite pungent I think, some cats. Yeah. 

14:26 S2

Yes. And litter are always up to or in an enclosed litter tray. The full litter tray using enclosed is helpful. Yeah.

14:33 S3

If you are settling a new small puppy in just if you're using a baby gate, check that the puppy doesn't fit through the baby gate. Also, some of them have wider bars than others. And while if your puppy is over five months, that won't be a problem if you have a small dog or a young Labrador. They may stick their head through the bars and still engage with those spaces that you're trying to keep separate from your cat.

14:56 S2

Very good point, Abi. And yes. I have had puppies home that have been smaller than my cat. So, you know, the litter tray is a good point as well. That cat litter if it is accessed. Some types are okay, not ideal. And there are other types like crystal types that are very important to not have in your house or accessible when you have dogs, because they will potentially try and eat the cat poop. But some types are kind of harmless in very small quantities if they're quick enough. Other bits can cause some damage, so just be mindful of that one.

15:27 S3

While we're talking about things that should be kept out of reach when we're settling new dogs into multi-dog homes. If original residing dog has any favorite toys or toys that have a lot of emotional value value to you, I would suggest putting them out of sight for the duration of your guest, or at least until they have been home a few days, and you get to know their personality. Whereas you may be in the situation that I was recently in where we lost eight toys due to full on play of other dogs. So if it's precious to you, make sure that it's out of reach for the new pup. Just because your dog can be trusted with it doesn't mean that this dog that you're getting to know is going to value it to the same degree.

16:09 S2

And, Abby, I think you raised a good point. Whenever you're having a new dog that you don't know, is is just having an extra level of supervision or awareness that they're new to the space and you're getting to know them and they're getting to know, know the space and encourage you to supervise a little bit more closely to begin with until you get to know them more and know what they get into or what their likes and dislikes are. Particularly you mentioned about soft toys or other items in the home. Yeah, it's always good to supervise and allow that a little bit more room or times where you allow, um, them a little bit more space when you after you get to know them.

16:50 S3

Absolutely. And you might it might even be appropriate play that the toys are getting destroyed in, but no one wants to clean up after a decapitated soft toy. So just supervise as much as you can.

17:01 S1

Even home behaviour-wise, a new dog. You don't know what they might try and get away with that they might not even try with their carer. They might think This is new, I could try.

17:11 S2

Yeah, and it's stress sometimes too because it's a change. So sometimes they will be behaving differently or they might feel more stressed. So they might show behaviors that maybe if they're changing carer homes or going from kennels to to their carer home, or from a carer home into kennels, change of environment sometimes can carry stress and different behaviours.

17:31 S3

It's not unreasonable to expect that it could take several days for the dogs to recover from that because they are having spikes in their hormones and things like that. So just keep in mind that even though you might feel like, oh, but they've been here 24 hours or 48 hours. Now that it may take them a few days to settle, to get used to the new routine and even changes in like feeding times and things like that can have a little bit of an impact on how the dog settles into your home.

17:55 S2

I mean, you raised a good point in terms of feeding as well. I think you were talking about like going to big events or Christmas parties and those type of things. If we're talking about Christmas foster care, and I generally encourage giving the dog a time to have an energy outlet, letting them relax, then feeding them before you head out into your activity, particularly if it's like a nighttime thing, more chances that the dog will be settled providing you got that time between a run and feeding. And then hopefully there's you're setting them up to be more settled when you're out and about.

18:28 S3

And keep in mind, like different ages are going to need different amounts of that. So what you might do with your six month old puppy, you may need more or less for your 14 month old training dog that's coming home to spend Christmas with you. So just keep in mind that those ages can make quite a difference as to what they need before those big events, or as to whether they actually need a break within those big events. And if you are a family that has a big Christmas dinner, maybe have a think about how you're going to tether or create or manage the dogs while everybody's eating, because those high interest we're talking about typically Labradors and golden retrievers. For our case, a lot of Christmas food can create a lot of Christmas spills, which can create a very interested dog.

19:10 S1

One of the good things about the crate is that it does fold up, so you actually can bring it to a family event, and I have done that before. You know, you just carry the crate in, unpack it. I have found that it's been a very positive thing for the dogs, that I've done that for where they've just kind of gone, oh, cool. Well, I'm really out of the way. No one's bothering me. It's a great time. So thinking about out and about settling behavior. So now I'm thinking more about things like, you know, cafes, restaurants, theatres, your office, that type of thing. What are the kind of tips that you might provide on that one, starting with what would the expectations be? What we're talking about, being settled in a public place.

19:45 S3

I always recommend my carers as close to a training dog as possible. So, Kylie, would you like to speak to what your expectations would be of a working dog settling out and about? And then I can build on to how we might get there.

19:59 S2

Look, I think for our clients it's really important because they're going about their day to day life and they're wanting to move to different areas, and they need to attend meetings and all sorts of things and be present, either working or with family and friends. So ideally that the dog is relaxed and calm by their side and is able to stay quiet for increasing periods of time. So sometimes I'll handlers might be in a meeting for 1 or 2 hours, and that they might require them to remain relaxed, or they might be going to a gym session or just moving between walking and different activities. So I think the end goal would be that they are able to utilize the energy when they're out working and then able to when they come to a stationary position, able just to stand beside the handler and or if they're the handler, seating is just to relax by their side in a sit or in laying down. Easier said than done to to get that and consistently, but that's obviously built over time with the handler and what we're ultimately aiming for.

21:01 S3

So for our puppies, that would be a dream puppy and we want to build up to that. So starting with what can they achieve at home? So there is absolutely nothing wrong. Before you go to an event with doing some practicing of a sit a down holding those positions, how long is puppy kind of naturally hanging out and chilling out on their bed? What are those sort of time frames before they're kind of like, well, I'm going to get up again and go and investigate my toys or things like that. Do some sessions of various durations at home in a controlled environment, just so you can get an idea of what your puppy is capable of. If it's a new puppy into your home that you are still getting to know, perhaps have a conversation with their carer or their usual family as to what is achievable for them in that context. 

And then when you head out and about for a young puppy, I would recommend cutting that in half or three quarters of what they can achieve at home is kind of where we would expect out and about, depending on how busy that environment is. So if it's kind of a coffee catch up and you're the only ones in the cafe and there's no one really moving around, it's not unreasonable to expect that puppy can hold it down for three quarters of the amount of time that they're holding it at home. If you are at a thriving Christmas dinner with people moving around and footsteps everywhere, you're probably only going to achieve about a quarter of that time. So put a little bit of work in ahead of time to see what is normal for your puppy, and then take some things to help you along your way. 

So if your puppy is, for instance, able to achieve five minutes of settling before they are putting their nose around, having a sniff around to see if what crumbs have been dropped at the meeting room table over coffee. Maybe at four minutes in, you're going to give them a nice big pat. Give them a reward. Ask them to do a set and then resettle them in a down just to interrupt before we get to that testing point. And then over time, build that up. But it is most important to do a little bit of work to get to know your puppy, whether that is your regular puppy or a new puppy, to see where they're at. Coming into expectations of settling in a novel environment.

23:02 S1

What types of like settling aids might you bring for a puppy? If you're doing your at home settling and you've got your tether and then your your wet bedding or something like that and your nylabone, would you bring those things out and about with you? 

23:16 S3

Absolutely. So bringing some bedding so your vet bed or just a tea towel, even just something that creates a visual space the puppy is used to having the expectation of paws on can really help because it gives them a space to be. It also can help with comfort because you might be in the cafe and those tiles might actually be really, really cold and your puppy is fidgeting because they don't want to lay on the cold tiles. Or we might be sitting at a bench in the sunshine, and the grass is actually really spiky and hot, and they're fidgeting and moving around, and they're unsettled because they're not comfortable. 

So you can help remove some of those elements from the challenge level. A nylabone or a preferred clay item can be really helpful, something that isn't going to roll away and that they're not going to want to chase after because that is going to undo what you're wanting to achieve.

24:01 S1

Nothing too squeaky. I'm thinking if you're in the office.

24:04 S3

It absolutely depends on your tolerance levels. If it keeps your puppy settled and you can tune it out, that might be something that's appropriate. But maybe just check in with the people that you're going to be hanging out with that they can also tolerate a squeaky toy, but something that pup can then focus on. You also don't want to rely too heavily on food, because the presence of the food itself can actually encourage the dog to be unsettled because they're looking for the next reward, or the next treat, or the next thing that's going to get them some food. So while you can use training aids like peanut butter on the nylabone or a Kong filled with food. You want to achieve a little bit of a downer on the day before you offer that out, rather than using it to get to the behavior. 

And obviously, depending on your dog, they may actually value just pats and praise. So don't forget to just check in with them and tell them they're doing a good job. It's really with our young puppies. We often fall into this habit of we only engage with them when they're unsettled because we're trying to resettle them, and then when they're settled, we take this big sigh of relief and we get on with what we need to get on with, and we forget to tell them they're doing a good job and they haven't worked out yet. What is the behavior that we desire? So we reinforce the undesirable behavior by giving them our attention when they do it.

25:13 S1

Would you just use your verbal then it would be your kind of preference, I guess.

25:18 S3

Absolutely. So a nice calm pat. If your dog likes pats or using a very monotone like oh good boy, good puppy, try not to use your marker word because then they're going to expect food and try not to get too excited in your voice because that's going to get their energy levels up. But like nice monotone. Oh good job. A little bit of acknowledgement and a bit of an ear scratch can go a very long way.

25:40 S1

And if they are popping up what would you do?

25:43 S3

So a little bit of a redirect into what you're looking for. If you find that you're in the pattern of we're going to use Dobby because that's my dog. So that name comes out pretty naturally. So Dobby down sits there for two minutes. He pops back up again. Dobby down. And you're in this pattern of just asking and rewarding. Asking and rewarding can use a little bit of a leash tether where you pop your foot on the end of the leash and just create a shorter space for them so they can't pop up as easily. Have a look around in the environment and is there something that might be distracting them? 

So if you're sitting in the beautiful sunshine, having a coffee with your friend and there's actually a bird two meters away that's hopping around and your dog's popping up, maybe they're distracted by the bird. Can we redirect their attention and change whatever it is in the environment that's distracting them? There's usually something going on that's causing them to pop up, so it's either that we've accidentally rewarded it, or there is something creating enough of a distraction that they want to move around.

26:33 S1

Would you say any different for the older dogs on that one?

26:37 S2

No. I think they're all really great tips that Abi has been able to provide. I guess with adult dogs when they're new to you, I would go back to maybe what you were doing with a puppy or a dog that you didn't know. So I think what Abi's mentioned is great.

26:52 S1

Is there anything else that either of you would like to share about settling either time?

26:57 S2

I'm just going to say that sometimes it's a challenging behaviour and if depending on the dog's natural energy levels. So just to be kind on yourself, there'll be days where and particularly the more active or different personalities of dogs do find settling a little bit more challenging. So there might be more management with one dog than you'll have with the other. Or another dog might find it extra hard to be able to do that, so reach out if you're having particular issues to your puppy development, or contact person or instructor. If you're noticing or you're having some difficulties with doing that, and might just like to chat through some other strategies that might help for your individual dog.

27:36 S3

If you have a busy day like take some patience for yourself. Give yourself a break. Use the tether. Use the crate to help aid the dog in settling, rather than relying on yourself being there so that if you are feeling a bit anxious or overwhelmed or just exhausted from a busy day, you can give yourself 15 20 minutes. That reset can make a huge difference to the dogs, because they do pick up on all those feelings down the lead or as we engage with them, and that can hinder their ability to settle in the public place because we're really anxious about how they're behaving. 

If you need to take five minutes, use those other tools and take five minutes because it will make a world of difference. If you're in a public place. Sometimes this simple act of ordering your coffee in a takeaway cup can just take that pressure off. But my coffee is still not here yet, and oh my gosh, this puppy keeps popping up and I've got to finish my cup and I can't take it with me. So sometimes just the act of I'm going to get it in a takeaway form. your stress levels are reduced while your dog is settling. That helps your dog settle, and then you actually can finish your meal at the venue, just in a takeaway format.

28:42 S1

You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Abi Howes, Puppy Development Trainer and Kylie Gersch, Training Program Manager and Instructor, talking about settling. There are lots of handy tips from our expert staff on the Seeing Eye Dog Show podcast that you can stream on our Omni FM page, or your preferred podcast platform. Don't forget to check in with your trusted seeing eye contact if you're a handler or carer with us for advice specific to the dog in your care. For more information on seeing eye dogs, the work we do or how you can help, head to our website at SED.visionaustralia.org ... Thank you for listening and have a lovely holiday season.