Sisterwould - accessible hair products

00:31S1

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.

00:37S2

Hey there, I'm Lizzy... 

S3

... and I'm Sam...

S2

... and you're listening to studio one, Vision Australia Radio's weekly look at life from a blind and low vision point of view. On this week's show, we talk to the founders of Sister Wood about accessible beauty products for women with vision impairment.

00:52S3

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio 1, or if you think there is something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something different.

01:06S2

You can email us at studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Astralia - dot - org.

01:14S3

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01:32S2

Well. I am joined by the lovely Rina Gocaj, who is a co-founder for the sisterhood hair care brand. Rena. Welcome to the show. 

01:39S4

Hi Lizzie, thank you for having me.

01:41S2

So you are the co-founder. Flo was unable to join us today, but would you tell us how did the two of you meet?

01:47S4

So Flo and I actually met from my husband. Flo was previously married to my husband's brother. So we are ex-sister-in-laws, and business partners and best friends by choice.

01:59S2

And how long ago was this?

02:00S4

This was, oh, wow, it was eight years ago.

02:05S2

Had either of you had any experience in the beauty or hair care industry prior to meeting?

02:10S4

Not necessarily the hair care industry. However. Flo has been in the beauty industry for the last 15 years of her career, so she's very well equipped in the beauty space. Flo actually formulates products for her father. She has studied accounting and business economics in school, but she's also studied, um, beauty therapy, and she used to own a laser clinic where she used to do hair, makeup and laser treatments and things like that. So she's very well versed in the beauty space. And while I can't speak too much of it because she's the pro in that space, Flo has some incredible experience. 

I, on the other hand, come from more of a corporate commercial background. I've been the head of talent, acquisitions, people and culture and a headhunter. So I come from the recruitment and headhunting space from the US. I've worked with global brands across various different industries and somehow landed in in beauty, fashion, lifestyle and retail. But prior to that, I also used to be a blogger many, many moons ago in the US and I had a WordPress website blog, and I always used to get gifted hair care products and things like that. So very well equipped. In the space from that lens.

03:22S2

I thought I could detect an accent there. How long have you been in Australia for?

03:26S4

For the last eight years now.

03:29S2

Amazing. Cool. And how do you like it here so far?

03:32S4

I absolutely love it, Lizzie. It's incredible. The coffee's amazing. The people are kind. The beauty ecosystem is incredible, so I can't complain.

03:40S2

Yeah, as long as the coffee's good, you can never complain, right? 

S4

Exactly. 

S2

And so when did you discover that accessibility of hair care products was something that needed to be addressed? 

03:53S4

Oh, great question. So when Flo and I initially started embarking on this journey, when it was just an idea, we wanted to do a lot of research. And part of that research stemmed from both of our mothers who actually struggle with visual impairments. Both our moms wear glasses and so really struggle with reading the fine print on products or even packaging in, um, of any kind, really. And that's when we initially discovered, uh, some sort of pain points, and they would constantly ask us to fix their products in the shower, tell them which one is which, because the packaging all looked the same, it all smelled the same, and they were struggling to differentiate the products and that's when Flo and I sort of had this little light bulb moment. 

We thought, look, if our parents are struggling so much to the point where they need our help and it's really affecting their day to day lives because we shower every day or every other day, we'll wash our hair. So we thought, let's, let's see if there's something deeper here that we can dig into. And that's essentially when we started doing market research on our own. And then we thought of reaching out to Vision Australia, who, we've actually partnered with. And we can talk a little bit about that as well. Yeah. And after doing that research, we actually discovered that blind and visually impaired people use tape and rubber band glue or hair ties, any sort of tactile element, to allow differentiation of products in the shower.

And we've spoken with various people who are both visually impaired and legally blind, and we kept getting the same response. You know, they buy products, they take it home either themselves or with their caregivers help and assistance. They do something to the product and add some sort of tactile element to allow differentiation. So we thought it's a huge gap on the market, but how big is it? And that's when we dug deeper and saw that, you know, globally there's 2.2 billion people in the world that have a knee or a distant visual impairment. And we saw that this number was going to rise by 2050, by 55%, which is pretty big. And in Australia alone, there's about 500,000 Australians living with blindness to severe visual impairment. And we thought, you know what, these are big numbers. There's great opportunity here. 

And we've watched the beauty ecosystem evolve from being, you know, focusing on inclusivity for different hair types and different skin types and textures and colors and focus on sustainability. And while all that is incredible and the beauty industry has made great strides to focus in some aspects of inclusivity, Flo and I really felt that it is constantly a realm that's exclusively designed for the able bodied human, and that's where we thought, you know, the. Visually impaired consumers are constantly overlooked and no one creates products with them in mind. And we thought that the evolution of beauty, this is the next step. We really believe that the future is inclusive and that's where it all started.

06:44S2

Well, it's something so simple. Is it? I mean, when able bodied people go to the shops and they buy hair care products, they don't think that, you know, they need to go home and differentiate the products later because they can see the labels so clearly. But it is something that has been overlooked for such a long time, and not just on beauty products as well, but food products. I know Sam and I have had this discussion before about food products having labels like how many times do we put orange juice in our coffee or salt in our coffee instead of sugar or milk because the containers are exactly the same.

07:19S4

So I couldn't agree more with you, Lizzy. And we actually discovered a lot of these pain points in a wider categories while we were doing our own research, which, you know, really surprised us as well. And we thought, wow, there's a much bigger issue at hand here, but it all needs to start somewhere. It takes one brand to pioneer a movement for for global change to start taking place. That's right.

07:39S2

And we're going to get into that. So sisterhood, the brand that you and Flo helped to create and co-found together, when did this idea come about?

07:49S4

So Sisterwould came about late 2019, I'd have to say, right before COVID hit, Flo and I were both doing completely different things. At the time, she was owning her clinic and I was in the recruitment space. Flo approached me and said, hey, let's start this brand. But life felt really busy and you know, there's never a right time to do anything in your day to day life. And then Covid sort of hit and we had all the time in the world, Lizzy. So we thought, you know what, let's use this time to do some research and see if we can validate an actual market for this. Is there a need for this type of product? 

Because the last thing the world needs is another haircare brand on the market. We wanted to really make sure that we had a huge differentiating factor against our competitors and and also creating a massive social impact and difference in the world, because that is the core pillars of our brand. We want to make a change in the world and we want to have impact.

08:42S2

That's right. And the ability for people to be able to use your products equally, right?

08:46S4

Absolutely.

08:47S2

So the name Sisterwould, I was just thinking about it. It's such an interesting name. What led you to use this name for your brand? 

08:55S4

Oh, love that. So essentially we wanted the name to become something that had more meaning and flow, and I have always been there for each other through the most difficult times, and we wanted the brand to be a reflection of our ethos and our values and as as a business, we want to make sure that we're allowing equal access to our products for everyone, and we're targeting every consumer audience. So essentially, we wanted to be the sister that would always be there for you. So the same way that a sister would be there, you know, for her siblings or her friends, we want our brand to be a reflection of those ethos, to be there for the wider community. And that includes our customers globally. So we want to be there for them, and that's where the name stems from.

09:37S2

I love the wordplay. They're amazing. And another thing I just thought I'd ask is, your brand Sisterwould, the products that you sell - are they in supermarkets and chemists or is it currently something you can only buy online?

09:50S4

So at the moment we're currently a D to C brand where we sell from our website Sisterwould. Com and we also have a few retail partnerships in the US and Australia. So in the US we can be found on Revolve, on the Revolve website. Yep. And in Australia we can be found with Oz hair and Beauty. We've got a great partnership with Oz Hair and Beauty and we're currently in discussions with many, many other retailers, both marketplaces and in-store. But we can't just disclose who they are just yet. But keep watching this space because a lot of exciting things are happening.

10:24S2

We talked a bit before about your partnership with Vision Australia, so when did you reach out to them and how were they able to help you to... better align your brand with your core principles or, you know, values?

10:38S4

Yeah, absolutely. So when Flo and I embarked on our research and development, we really wanted to make sure that we started off with a strong community that obviously had access to everyone that's blind and visually impaired, and we knew that it was a no brainer to go directly to Vision Australia at this point. So we contacted Jane from the production department and we asked her for some help. Initially it was just a few questions and then we said, hey, can we partner, can you assist us? This is what we want to do. We want to include Braille, but we know that Braille isn't enough. We've done our research. Only 10% of the blind population can actually read Braille. It's not something that comes easy to everyone. It's difficult to learn and it takes time. 

And we thought, you know, we want to do more. Can you help us figure this out and what this looks like? And she said yes. And they were extremely incredible. So at that point we went on to. Mold our products and include Braille, which was great, but we also wanted to include a tactile imprinting system for the blind and visually impaired people that can't read Braille, and that includes having horizontal lines for shampoo and dots for conditioner. So those tactile elements would further help blind and visually impaired people differentiate the product.

But doing all of this, including the Braille, required specific requirements. We needed to ensure that we also abide by the ABA, which is the Australian Braille Association, and we wanted the braille and the tactile elements to be able to be legible on a global scale, but also have that tactile element that the millimetre and diameters are properly done and portioned, and we needed help from the production team to do all of this. And it was very time consuming. It actually extended our launch date by an extra year, almost a year and a half, and we were prepared to do this because we wanted to make sure that we did it right.

12:26S3

Are there any other products that you're probably looking at covering in the near future?

12:30S4

Absolutely, Sam. I mean, right now we've started with hair care because at the time that we were looking to launch the brand, upon doing research, we felt like hair care was a little bit less saturated than skin care. I mean, everything is naturally very saturated at the moment. The market has a lot of everything, but we decided to take this approach for that reason, and also for the reason that Flo is extremely passionate about skin care. And I was really passionate about hair care, and we thought, let's combine the two. Especially because Flo's father suffers from severe psoriasis, so he really struggles to find good products on the market. And Flo's always formulated his products. And through those formulations, we discovered that we can turn some of those skin care benefits into hair care products that are going to both benefit people's scalp and hair.

So essentially, Sisterwould is scientifically formulated to help the hair, the hair and scalp health of both your scalp and your hair. And that was extremely important to us. And leading to that, we started with the hair care category, with plans to also venture out into the skin care category later, but that isn't for a few more years within our business plan, so we've got a long way to go before we get to that skin care category. Right now, it's really dominating the the hair care category as a starting point.

13:43S2

So talk us through some of the products that you sell currently in terms of shampoos and conditioners. Just give us a rundown of what are some of the most popular products that you sell. Absolutely.

13:53S4

So Lizzie, funny enough, at the moment we actually only have two SKUs, which means two products. We only sell our best selling Give Me Life shampoo and conditioner. And the reason we call it Give Me Life is because it gives life back into the scalp and into the hair. As I previously mentioned, they've been scientifically formulated to help the hair health of your scalp and also your hair. So the shampoo is incredible because not only are we trying to be inclusive and accessible from from a standpoint of having Braille and tactile elements, but we've actually took a step further by allowing differentiation through a sensory experience. 

Now, what this means is that our products were formulated with innovative tactile ingredients. The shampoo has little micro beads in it, and these little beads are biodegradable, and they're made out of native Australian plant extracts. And they serve two purposes. One is to gently scrub the scalp and detox and exfoliate it to allow a really clean slate for the conditioner to then penetrate into your scalp and really soothe it and condition. And the second is for a sensory experience. So blind and visually impaired people can actually differentiate the difference in texture between the shampoos, granular beads and the conditioners ultra thick and creamy texture. 

So that was... the reason why we wanted further differentiation. And we've also further differentiated by color. Our shampoo is a nice watermelon pink color that has a very nice, refreshing watermelon scent. And our conditioner actually has a really bright green color that has a very ginger root, invigorating mint smell. So we wanted to allow different ways of having a blind and visually impaired person differentiate the products outside of the packaging. We also went internal. So inside of the packaging, actually.

15:43S2

That's one reason why I always buy exfoliant uh, body wash instead of normal body wash. So I don't accidentally get that. And the shampoo mixed up, which I have done before. So I've put, you know, shampoo in my, on my body and body wash in my hair. That didn't, didn't turn out so well.

15:59S4

We discover that upon doing our research, a lot of blind and visually impaired people have actually said that to us. And we thought, wow, we really need to find a solution here and make it easier to differentiate the products outside of just the packaging, because when you pump products in the shower, um, well, 99% of the time they're the same exact color and they're the same exact scent, and they're also the same exact texture. So we wanted to really differentiate all those three elements, and...

16:27S2

I'm sure that you could find plenty of funny stories about blind / visually impaired people accidentally using the wrong products. I suppose one of my funniest is when I used a deep heat instead of toothpaste, because they were in the same container. That was a painful mistake I will never make again.

16:44S3

I've actually got another story as well, so I we were staying in, I think it was Thailand. I was rooming with a totally blind athlete and he said, there's, there's two bottles of shampoo and one of them's really, really, really good. It really bubbles up quite nicely. So I went in there and oh, okay, I'll give this a go myself. Not reading it, it was bubble bath.

17:06S2

Oh no.

17:07S3

Well, it was very bubbly.

17:09S2

Yes.

17:10S3

It worked out really well, though.

17:12S2

I don't know how well you would have liked that though.

17:16S3

So yeah. So it pays to read these things when you can read these things. Phil unfortunately was totally blind.

17:21S2

So back to Vision Australia. Have they been able to help you to circulate awareness of your brand?

17:28S4

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Vision Australia have been an incredible partner and we're really grateful because not only not only are we helping a wider community and audience, but as a brand, I feel like it's also giving us access to to a community, um, for our brand awareness and recognition. So it's gone both ways, and we're extremely thankful for that partnership because, you know, they give us opportunities to invite us to events that they have and bring us on radios the same way that we're doing right now. And it's just been really great. We're so thankful for that partnership and everyone within Vision Australia that really extends their support to our brand.

18:05S2

And have you got any plans to partner up with any other organisations to circulate brand awareness to blind and vision impaired people.

18:11S4

Maybe in the near future? We're actually having some early stage discussions at the moment with with different organisations, but so far as as of present, we're looking to really just focus on further strengthening our partnership with Vision Australia and seeing how we can give back to them as we grow as a brand and then take it from there.

18:31S2

The first time I heard about the brand sisterhood was when you featured in an ABC article about accessible beauty products for women. I was also featured in that article. Do you have any plans? And it's okay if you're not, obviously, but do you have any plans to branch out into makeup? Because this was another massive discussion that was taking place at the time, was the unusability and inaccessibility of makeup for blind and vision impaired women.

19:00S4

Great question, Lizzie. And look, while I'd love to say yes to that question, unfortunately we actually have no plans at present to venture out into the makeup space. However, you know, these things could always change. Our business plan was strictly created with hair care and skin care products in mind. But as the business grows, you know the possibilities are endless. And I think having an open mind on that is probably extremely important. But as a business, we try and tackle while we can, while being a really small brand competing with the big fish on the market. 

But that is a great point that you make and we actually came across that as well. There isn't enough cosmetics companies out there that are focusing on accessibility and inclusivity. There's a select few, and the ones that we've come across are doing a great job at it, and some of them are really trying hard, but we feel like this is something that is going to change in the years to come. We do feel like the future truly is inclusive and brands are doing the best that they can, and I feel like a lot of changes is going to be coming.

20:00S2

So what do you think that other vision impaired and blind people could do to sort of rally around and get these mainstream brands to be a bit more accessible?

20:10S4

Absolutely. That is a great question. And we actually have so many of our customers constantly coming to us saying, how can we help? What can we do to to, you know, further your brand awareness or to help other brands take the steps that you're taking to be inclusive and accessible? And one of the things that we always say is leading by example. We're pioneering the way for inclusivity and showing brands that they should be formulating and creating products with every consumer and target audience in mind. Not just the, you know, able bodied human, but there's a lot of people out there that need products created for different reasons. And we think it's important to pioneer and lead by example. And that's exactly what we're doing. 

And, you know, there's actually another Australian brand on the market that is slowly taking strides to being inclusive and accessible. And I absolutely love the founder of this brand, Hilary. The brand is called Home Beauty and it's a cosmetics brand. And she has started adding braille to some of her packaging. And she recently launched the lip liners that were were created in a way so they don't slide on desks. So it's extremely important to just think of different ways to make products inclusive and accessible. And, and we're seeing a lot of change in the industry and brands slowly starting to adopt this. So I think there's a lot of room for. Change, and I think that we're going to be seeing a lot of it coming up. 

But the one thing that consumers can do is honestly keep keep vouching for brands that are trying to make a difference, like us at sister would like home beauty in the cosmetic space like Okiyo, which is founded by an incredible founder. Um, and it has braille on its packaging and it's a mascara wand and it's incredible. So we love that brand. And I feel like what consumers can do is really go to even to their local retailers or online and tag the brands that they want to see these retailers stocking. So, you know, if you shop at Chemist Warehouse and you want to see a particular brand at Chemist Warehouse, I think it's important to contact the buyers or the team and let them know that you want to see more brands that cater to inclusive and accessible needs, or more brands that have X, Y, Z. And I think that being vocal about it is extremely important. 

The online digital space can make so much change these days and can go viral. And I think it's important to be as vocal as possible about the change that needs to happen.

22:33S2

I agree, it's it's one thing to talk within inner circles about how things need to change, but unless we're vocal and we push, you know, the big retailers or the big brands to be more inclusive, then there's not really much change that's going to happen. And I'm so glad that sisterhood is a brand that is taking accessibility, you know, to the next level and making sure that its products are accessible for blind and vision impaired people.

22:58S4

Thanks, Lizzie. We're excited to be pioneering this space, and we look forward to the future, and we're excited to keep creating more products.

23:07S3

At risk of sounding like this is possibly the dumbest question ever, have you ever thought of establishing a subbrand like Brotherwould?

23:14S4

And that's such a great question, and one that we get a lot. Believe it or not, we we have a huge customer. A male customer audience, believe it or not, who find us from, you know, their wives, their daughters, their girlfriends, and they've sent us messages. They slide into our DMs and they're like, love your products. Absolutely love the cool, tingling sensation that the mint gives in the conditioner and the shampoo. It's so sensorial. It's like an escape in the shower. The only problem is this bottle is very peachy and girly. Would you mind creating more masculine products? So. And I can't tell you. I mean, we're keeping count. We've gone like over 120 people asking us this. 

So we think that it is time to start considering. And we're actually trying to consider creating a men's range. So like I said, watch this space because a lot of exciting things are happening. And we do think that men need their own range because it needs to have a better set in. The bottle needs to look a little bit more masculine.

24:10S2

Yes. Somehow I don't think watermelon will go down too well with most of the men.

24:16S3

I don't know what would go down well. I mean, all my range of things that I use, it consists of bottle of shampoo and a thing of soap. Really? That's the sum total. It was actually how you could tell when I was actually in a relationship, because all of a sudden, the amount of bottles in my shower would, uh, grow exponentially. And another thing that sort of comes, comes to mind when we talk about this subject is there was an episode of the show Red dwarf where the main character was applying or was putting some shaving cream on his face for what he thought was, Cologne on, under his arms. And it turned out he was using the wrong bottles on either way. So he had the shaving cream under his arms and the  Cologne on his face, and he basically being the character he was. And. Oh, and then took it from, from his under his arms and put it on his face. But, I mean, I'm sure this kind of thing has happened. I mean, the possibilities of this are sort of endless, aren't they?

25:08S4

Absolutely, absolutely. And my husband, who I guess is our first biggest fan when it comes to our male target audience, he loves the sense and he set himself. This would be great to have a little bit more masculine sense. He goes, it would absolutely kill it for men. So and we didn't think that we'd have other male customers come to us asking for this. We thought, you know, they'll just use whatever their their wives have in the shower. Men don't really care. But to our surprise, they care a lot. So we definitely are considering it.

25:36S3

Well, you tend to find that there's only certain products that actually work, and, uh, I think I'm usually the kiss of death as far as shampoos go, because anytime I've got attached to something, it's gone out of business. So. Alberto. Sorry, guys. That's my fault, right?

25:51S2

You're not buying, brother would if it comes out, that's it. You're banned. So let us know. How can we access your products? Do you have a website? Do you have social media? How can we get in contact with you? Or to buy your products or to give you any feedback?

26:09S4

Yeah. So our website is sisterwould.com - and Sisterwould is spelled s I s t e r w o u l d - dot - com. A lot of people think it's spelled differently. And we're also on Instagram sister wood and then underscore at the end you can be found on Tick Tock and various different platforms like LinkedIn. We're happy to connect with any. One, and I think the beautiful early stages of this business are great because Flo and I get to really speak to our customers firsthand as founders every day, and we love doing it, of course.

26:42S2

And you also said that Oz Hair and beauty were stocking your product as well.

26:47S4

Absolutely. You can buy us from Oz Hair and Beauty. They're incredible and they have amazing brands on their website. If you're looking to shop for other products as well. So it makes it a little bit more accessible to have Sisterwould on there, which is great.

27:00S3

We'll include all of those links in the podcast notes and also on the Facebook post that comes out this Wednesday at four. So yeah, we'll promote you as much as we can on this side as well.

27:10S4

Thanks, Sam. Thanks, Lizzie.

27:12S2

Well, thank you so much for being on the show. And I have set my order for the Give Me Life shampoo to come out tomorrow. 

27:23S4

So I'm so excited for your support and thanks for having us be on it. We're really grateful for the support as well.

27:31S3

That's a wrap for this week. On our next show in this Paralympic year, we talk to our friends over at Blind Sports Australia. What role does the old abs play in the modern era?

27:43S2

But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience with any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or whether you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.

27:59S3

Please drop us an email... studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia - dot - org. Or drop us a line on our social media facebook.com, slash VA Radio Network or Xcom slash VA Radio Network.

28:15S2

We want to hear from you.

28:17S3

Goodbye for now.

28:21S1

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.