00:06 ID
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
00:11 Sam
Hello. I'm Sam.
00:12 Lizzie
And I'm Lizzie.
00:14 Sam
And this is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view - here on Vision Australia Radio.
00:20 Lizzie
On this week's show, How do you cope in the world of love and romance?
00:25 Sam
With Valentine's Day coming up on Friday, we ask a few friends about their experiences dating.
00:31 Lizzie
As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show .If you have any experience with the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
00:46 Sam
You can email us: studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.
00:51 Lizzie
Or perhaps you can leave us a comment on our Facebook page. Just go to facebook.com slash radio network.
01:00 Sam
Hello Lizzie, we're on the Valentine's Day week again... it doesn't seem like a year since we... were talking about this last time.
01:10 Lizzie
I don't know about you, Sam, but my head's been filled with love songs all week. And it's not spring, but the smell of fresh cut flowers bombards my nostrils at every turn.
01:21 Sam
Well, yeah, I've always had this mixed feeling on... Valentine's Day.
Lizzie
Really?
Sam
Mm, when me and Heidi first got together. Yes. We would go out to dinner and we'd get each other a nice bottle of wine or something like that to drink or to share. And as the years have gone past, it's just become another day. And it's like, All right. Oh, yeah, it's Valentine's Day. All right. What's on the telly?
01:49 Lizzie
I understand you, Sam - but for me, I mean, Stephen and I, our relationship is much newer than yours. We've been together for four and a half years. However, I'm often so busy, and he's often so busy, and we're just doing a lot of our different things, which, you know, you'd know. You know, you and Heidi would surely be somewhat the same. And so whenever Valentine's Day comes around and it gives us an excuse to spend time with each other... oh, yeah, of course we we go all out. And, I mean, we don't buy each other expensive gifts, but we all, like, pick a recipe out of a recipe book.
Like this week we've picked a recipe and we're going to make it. It's a... two course meal. We're going to make it together and we're going to sit down and have a romantic dinner. Steven bought me some wine. He's got some some beer and we'll... we're going to just do something simple like that. But it's... a time to just check in with each other for us.
02:43 Sam
And, well, what we have said in previous episodes, and this is the absolutely fascinating thing about this community in which we live in, was when we did this, this time last year, it was trying to get blood from the proverbial stone. It was, people did not want to talk about it.
03:03 Lizzie
It's funny about that, because exactly... like when we were trying to get bits and pieces together for this show, nobody wanted to share their experience. But it was, I would like to say, I would like to think that it was a successful show. You know, it garnered quite a response from the community. And so after that, we were bombarded with, When are you going to do another dating show? I want to tell my story. And I just thought, You guys have left it a bit late, like, I'm sorry, but you just have to wait till next year now. So now we've gathered everybody together in one place, and we bring to you some more stories.
03:39 Sam
Exactly. Mind you, the first two... well, they wouldn't say that their dating life has been successful. And they're both successful athletes as well... bizarrely enough.
03:54 Speaker 4
That's a good question because I actually haven't dated before. So yeah, I I'm not sure. I probably go with someone who's excited just because I'm so restricted with my vision and not being able to drive, and it limits everything that I can do. So yeah.
04:17 Speaker 5
I only really had one boyfriend prior to my husband, and... we met at school and that was through... we were both in the school band... and I wouldn't say it was really... wasn't a serious thing. And when I met my husband, he was playing goalball. So obviously we were both vision impaired, and... it wasn't an issue for either of us because we're both vision impaired.
04:47 Lizzie
Well, that was the next question was whether you prefer to date... sighted individuals or people with a vision impairment.
04:54 Speaker 5
To be honest, it doesn't really bother me. It was... I never really thought about it back in the day... it was just that I met... Neil playing goalball, and he was number seven for Ballarat and I was number seven for Victorian women. And we started cheering for each other. And...
05:15 Sam
This seemed to be a theme here with... athletes and ex-athletes, because... yes, I describe my... dating history when I was competing as somewhat shambolic. So... whether we couldn't find the time or whether it was just mean that we were busy for that kind of thing.
05:33 Lizzie
Yeah. You have used that word before, Sam. Shambolic, definitely. I don't know... having never been a really successful athlete myself, I wouldn't know.
05:41 Sam
I also don't I think that sometimes people don't know what to make of us... because on especially able bodied... because on one side, yes... these vulnerable disabled people, and people don't understand the nature of disability. But on the other hand, we're also extremely fit, attractive individuals, or interesting individuals, as it were. So does the maternal instinct break in or what? So yeah, I think that sometimes, disabled athletes are a confusing thing for singles to deal with.
06:20 Lizzie
I think it's easier for the maternal instinct to kick in with regards to disabled women. People tend to infantilise... people tend to infantilise disabled women more so than men. And I think it's because... as women, we are already seen in a position of being more vulnerable or weaker or not able to look after ourselves. And then you add disability to that and it just double folds. So I don't know, like for you, I think it must have been a real head scratcher when they saw you. But for me, oftentimes I have to explain to people that... my athletic career is a lot more involved than what you think it is. It's not just getting on a bike and going for a ride whenever I want to race. It's actual training, so it's hard. It's hard. I can imagine people's brains would be ready to explode.
07:15 Sam
Mm, I found in my time there I had a lot of female friends and... that things never moved any further, and... but there were a few that... yes, if things looked like they were moving further with somebody, all of a sudden there would be just a little bit short and judgy and all that sort of stuff. So... yes, the friend zone is maybe not be politically correct, but it is a... thing. And I think sometimes... if you're not sure, make up your mind.
07:46 Lizzie
Well, Sam, I'm just glad to hear that you found your significant someone, because it's not so bad going through life as a single, if that's what you want. But if it's not what you want, aaah, it's depressing.
07:57 Sam
It is, it is. But anyway, let's hear from Emma and Kylie.
08:04 Speaker 6
Well, I've actually not had any dating experience. I've had my moments, you know, flirty moments. And I do chat online. Yep. But what I like to do if I do chat to people online is I ask them to send me a voice message if they can, so I can hear their voice to hear what they actually sound like, Oh that's cool. Yeah. And with regard to... would I rather date sighted or people who are vision impaired, it... doesn't bother me. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all human. We're all human beings. And it shouldn't make a difference.
08:48 Speaker 7
Really? Oh, golly. Gosh. Okay. I'm... toast. Probably coming up nearly to a year post-relationship, and I'm not even phased at the moment. I'm, I guess, to a stage in my life that... yeah, this is a hard question, actually, because one moment you feel, Oh, no one's going to want me because I can't, you know, I've got all these quirks, I'll call them. But in the other hand, why wouldn't someone want me? I'll give you the best, funniest, most, you know, great ride in life you could possibly imagine. So I'm not going to go out there looking for it. I don't think it would be safe at all to go on dating sites... like in the past, I'll be honest, I have, when I could see properly and in my 20s and it was fun, you know, but I this is what you call a real blind date. That's what it would be.
So yeah, at the moment I'm just I'm just really full steam ahead with career and my family. I've got two beautiful children and yeah, dating's, dating is one of those things that... and getting yourself into... I think dating for me, I'm looking at it like this. I would love to think that... I would love to have somebody when the time's right, that life partner, but also find them doing something I love. So connecting in the tandem bike riding, you know, getting out there. I want to do some other things as well. And I guess that's trust the universe and trust the process that someone might be there one day.
10:35 Sam
Okay. I love that. Okay.
10:37 Lizzie
Okay. Firstly, there's a lot to unpack there. Thank you girls. Ladies. Firstly, Carly, I think she touched upon a really important issue. And that is you need to be absolutely sure of yourself because people who don't want you. And that there will be a lot of rejection. As somebody with a disability who's tried dating a lot... who's tried to to be one of those girls with boyfriends all the time. You know, when I was younger... and rejection comes more than success and you need to be absolutely sure of yourself. And so Carly saying what she did about, I will give you the the funniest and greatest and most enjoyable ride of your life... like, she knows as a person what she's got to offer. And so for her, she's not going to let something like rejection get her down.
Well, okay. You're not going to take the time to to explore or to open yourself up to that, then that's your issue. As for Emma, I find her open mindedness to be refreshing. Like, she doesn't mind if it's vision impaired or blind person that she's dating. She's open to human experience. And that's the other thing. It's all about the human experience. So a lot to unpack. But what about you, Sam? What did you take away from all of that?
11:54 Sam
Oh, I loved Carly's... viewpoint of things and also being realistic about things as well. She's not she's not quite ready to do that sort of stuff. It's kind of say, all right, if the universe presents something, then it presents something. But otherwise I've got a life at the moment.
12:08 Lizzie
Yeah. And it's really interesting what she said about, you know, connecting with people through tandems and all the other activities she does. She's quite a busy person. Often those are the places where you find that connection. I mean, it's all well and good to go on a dating site and look for that connection. And... but to me that's somewhat forced. Whereas if you're just going about your daily life and like you're at the gym and you meet someone like you already know, you've got that interest in common, or you meet someone at a bookstore or at a library, or you're out for coffee or you're hiking, at least you know that the person you've met up with has that one thing in common with you.
Like... Steven and I, classic story again, music group. We both love music. We're both musicians. We both love to jam, and that is really what brought us together is love of music. So, you know, that is a testament, I think, to the real-world power of just getting out there doing what you love and finding connection in that.
13:06 Sam
Well, that's... the thing is that these apps, the reason why you're on there is for one thing only, that's to find somebody else. Yeah. Whereas yes, we tend to do more when we're just out there living our lives. All right. So we're going to be finishing up with Steven and Lily and no, not yours Steven. We were just talking about a Steven. But this is the other Steven, Steven, Steven K, we might just call him.
13:35 Speaker 8
Mm. But yeah, there's been some frustration in regards to the business hours. People either wanting to overcare for me or finding... me a bit of a burden as far as, yeah, doing sighted guide or any of those things. So there's been either end of that extreme of people being too, too nurturing or finding it too hard to look after me, if you like. I don't find the thing. think I'm a person who needs a lot of. I'm quite independent and quite able. But some yeah, partners I have had have been found at either end of extremes. You know, it depends who you're with and who you need to find someone who matches you for who you are, whether part of your disability or otherwise.
There's definitely been some prejudgment, again, as you say, about disability... sorry, as I said about employment, there's an assumption that you may be a burden or a bit of work or less on your who you are and your abilities and stuff there too. Um, even my, uh, current wife, but she was warned off me a bit as well because of my disability. But she's obviously a very caring person, so that wasn't wasn't a big concern for her. I know my my dad was warned off my mum for the same reason as his grandma. So, um, it's always been a thing. And, um, it's just an assumption that we're going to need to be looked after and babied and, uh, those things, I think that's, uh, more of a societal issue that needs to be fixed, that that attitude that disabled people need to be be looked after or aren't able.
15:26 ?Speaker
There are definitely people out there that are that are pushing those boundaries and and doing their bit to make it evident to society that we are more than capable.
15:35 ?Speaker
Yeah. And I think I think if you look at the the blind people who are together - say you've got two, two vision impaired people in the same relationship. You know, some of them are really successful, you know, so I think, you know, you look at me and Adele like, she really improves me as who I am and makes me more efficient and does stuff for me. But people were... yeah, two, two blind people in a relationship are equally supportive of each other and understanding of of that situation. And... how frustrating it can be. So... they can support each other in that way as well. So, yeah.
16:10 ?Speaker
I was also going to ask you whether you're not out on a date. I wasn't going to ask you out on a date. That came out wrong. I was also going to ask you, do you prefer to date sighted individuals or other people with a vision impairment?
16:24 ?Speaker
I wouldn't say I have a preference for either. I don't go looking for one over the other. But yeah, there's there's pros and cons to each. So, yeah, you know, understanding and support and their own abilities, how much they might lean on you for support. And... you know, in different ways. So everyone has their pros and cons and limitations and history and all those things. So...
16:51 Lizzie
Very interesting. I've... dated plenty of blind people or vision impaired people, and I've also dated a few sighted people. And one thing he said that is absolutely correct is that blind and vision impaired couples can be successful. So, for example, Stephen and I, we have both things that we're good at around the house and things that we're not. I can't vacuum a floor or mop to save my life. However, I'm a pro when it comes to sorting out and folding, washing and putting it away in record time. So we delegate and we divide the responsibilities based on what we're good at, what we can do.
And I think again, that's the important thing is how do you work as a couple? How do you work as a team? Because in my opinion, a relationship, a marriage, whatever it is that you've got with someone, if you're living with them, like it's a team, you are part of a team now. You can't just be out there thinking about yourself. You need to think about the other person as well. And it's teamwork - teamwork makes the dream work, they say.
17:58 Sam
The other point I'd like to make, really, is that often we get comments on Facebook or from people that we know who are either able bodied or often where one of them has a disability and the other one is able bodied, that we're out and about a lot, you know, we're doing a lot of stuff, and there seems to be this, How can you manage that? And it's, Well, what else are we going to do?
18:23 Lizzie
Well, I put it back on the person. Like, how do you manage it? Okay. So you've got a car. Mm. But we can catch public transport or we can get an Uber or support workers. Like we can still get driven. Well, there's no limit to what we can do.
18:37 Sam
I think part of the problem often is that when you're dealing with a car centric society like ours is, and you have one person who can drive and one person who can't. They're the ones with all the power. So they're the one that ends up deciding, all right, we're going to go somewhere and do something.
18:52 Lizzie
Admittedly, this is a problem that I have faced before, and it's hard. And it's kind of one of the reasons we broke up is because at first they were so wanting to drive me places. Yes, to university and to this and that. And I got really used to it and really happy with it. And then whenever we had a fight and they wanted to control stuff, it was like, Yeah, I'm not going to drive you there anymore. So it made life inconvenient. So I'm Stephen, I'm sorry to say this, but I'm glad you can't drive. And you're probably glad I can't drive. Except I can drive you up the wall. Yeah. So.
19:28 Sam
Well, I mean, it comes down to it... I mean, okay, we did next to nothing in the last weekend because it was hot and miserable. The one time we went outside the house on the weekend was to do some shopping.
19:41 Lizzie
Oh. Lucky you.
19:43 Sam
So that was the only thing we did because we didn't really want to do anything else anyway. But otherwise, no, I mean, we usually find something to do to do over the weekend and sometimes during the week and all that sort of stuff. It just requires a little bit of planning, and it's a case of not having that conversation of, Uh oh, because I'll have to drive or the cars needs to be repaired or or something like that. There's no excuses.
20:07 Lizzie
No. And it's easy enough in this day and age with NDIS and all that, to organise support, if that's what you like. Yesterday I was out and about all day with the help of a support worker. But you know, I did what I normally do. Like what any normal person would do. You know, I went to church, took my stepson swimming. You know, I have a myriad of activities I'm going to do. And... just because one of us can't drive doesn't mean we can't do them. We've got support for that.
20:33 Sam
Well, the last person we were talking to is Lilly, and she's got one or two things to say.
20:43 Lilly
My experience now, as my vision has declined in the last, sort of 3 or 4 years, quite significantly, is that I don't disclose on the app, but I disclose in the first interaction. when I say interaction, I mean the first phone conversation. I don't do it in... writing, thing I will when I'm speaking on the phone to this person and realising I'd like to speak to this person some more, I'll disclose, and I'll disclose in a way that I don't go into every single detail and da da da da. But just that, you know, I have a vision impairment. This is how much vision I have left, and this is how it affects my functioning.
As you know, I might say that word, but, I usually get complete silence when I disclose, and then I'll ask them, you know, ask, Do you have any questions? You know, is there? And then I'll say, look, I... fully understand that that's something you might need to have a think about. And I'm happy for you to go away and have a think about it. And if you come back with Yeah, no, I don't think so, that's absolutely fine. That's your choice to make. I've had many... experiences. Not so recently, actually. Quite, not so that long ago, actually.
Because I ride a bike now, you know, and this person rode a bike and he said, Oh, it'll be great. We could go on trail rides together. And I went, Oh, well, only you're going to get on the front of the tandem. I'd already disclosed that I'm the athlete and rode a tandem and, he went, Oh, no, no, I was thinking that I would just ride in front of you and you could just follow me. If you were right on my wheel, you'd be okay, right? I went, No, I wouldn't, and it was... I had to chuckle about that. And then I sort of explained why that wouldn't work. And... then he went away and thought about it and then sort of came back and went, Yeah, no, it's... you know, thanks, but no thanks.
And that's okay, you know. Yeah. All right, no worries. That's fine. So yeah, disclosure was the biggest thing, yeah. Look... I'm yet to disclose on the app, that's just something I guess for me, I really have a belief that there's so much more to the person that I am, than my vision impairment - so I don't want that to be all that they see and then flick you away because of that. You know, that's my choice... to make. And I've had some really lovely experiences, actually, with people once they understand and once they meet me in person, go, Oh, God, look again. That I fully expected you to be not looking like that. And I was like, Yeah, I know, you know, I'm pretty normal. Otherwise I just talk a lot. You know?
And I... have all these other quirks, and the vision impairment is the least of it, you know? I would rather you say you didn't want to date me because I talk too much, to be honest, but, yeah, so... well, I don't know if it's preference, but I guess I've only ever dated sighted. I yeah, look... I just, I've only ever dated sighted people. I haven't... ever been in, I guess any other... had any opportunity to meet people with vision impairment date. So I haven't, you know, been out in, in the world and actually actively sought out... someone with a vision impairment to date.
So, yeah, I guess my preference is sighted, and that that is my... preference. You know, I guess... for me, again, going back to the travel and the just, you know, being in the... you know, wanting to experience some things where it would be helpful for someone to explain... my environment to me. And if it was with a partner travelling, they could do that for me. Again, you know, not being in that situation yet, but, yeah. So the whole dating thing is... yeah, quite... new-ish to me because I... was married for 27 years. So coming out in the... world as a single woman, with a vision impairment, it certainly was not... easy.
But you know what? Since I've done this last couple of years where I've, I haven't done a lot of dating, I've been chosen to be single, I'm really empowered now to advocate for my myself. And if someone doesn't like it, that's okay. See you. And you know what my daughter always says to me, Mum, you know what? It's okay. They weren't the one for you. If they don't understand and they're not accepting of you and any difference you may have, then they're not the one. You know, she's a smart little cookie. So. Yeah.
25:48 Sam
Anything to unpack from this one again?
25:50 Lizzie
Lilly is a very self-assured person. She's self-assured. She knows what she wants in a partner and knows what she doesn't. And she's not afraid to say, If you can't handle that, that's fine. And that's essentially as blind people, as disabled people, we need to accept the fact - it sucks, I know, but we need to accept the fact that not everybody's going to be open to dating us. And instead of looking at life through this negative lens or spitting the dummy or, you know, complaining about how society is so unfair, if we can come to a place of acceptance and knowing that we will eventually find the person that we're after, life will be a lot easier.
26:40 Sam
That is a wrap for this week. Who are we thanking this week?
26:44 Lizzie
We are thinking Maddie, Jody, Carly, Emma, Steven, Kay and Lilly. And of course, a big thank you for listening.
26:54 Sam
You can find the podcast for this program, including some extra little bits that we couldn't quite fit in the radio show on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favourite podcast platform. Next week, we're catching up with Paralympic triathlete and Commonwealth Games silver medallist Sam Harding. That is, once I've actually asked him if he wants to be on the show or not.
27:14 Lizzie
Okay, great. Cool. But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
27:31 Sam
You can email us studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.
27:37 Lizzie
Of course you can search for us on your social media platforms, whether that be Facebook, Instagram or Twitter and look up VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.
27:48 Sam
But until then, bye for now.
27:54 ID
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
