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This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
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On this week's Studio One. Blind people serving coffee.
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What could possibly go wrong?
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This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio.
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Hello, I'm Matthew.
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And I'm Sam.
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And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.
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On this week's show, the White Cane Coffee Company, the social enterprise that not only wins awards for its product but also provides employment opportunities to people living with a disability. We speak to the company's dynamic young CEO, Aaron Willman.
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As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody who is dealing with something similar.
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You can email us Studio one at Vision Australia. Org that's studio one at Vision australia.org.
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This is studio one on Vision Australia Radio.
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You like a coffee, don't you, Sam?
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Ah, just a little bit. Hmm?
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How's your coffee machine doing?
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It is still working, surprisingly enough. I've got a number of different alternative ways of actually preparing the thing. Because I am a bit, um, obsessed with actually having coffee as opposed to the. That stuff that comes out of a jar.
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I don't mind the jar. Damn. English, as you know. Uh, funnily enough, uh, yesterday, uh, some lovely friends of ours, uh, from Adelaide, Zoe Roe and her parents, Craig and Catherine, were in London. And one of the things they used to live in Sydney, they moved to Adelaide about four years ago. And one of the things they were very excited to do was to go to a branch of Starbucks. Adelaide, quite proud of its record with Starbucks, isn't it, Sam?
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Well, it was there and then it wasn't. In fact, Starbucks failed in Australia. It's one of the few countries where it did. Um.
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It's interesting. And of course, Adelaide in particular are very proud of their own coffee culture. Uh, and they managed to, uh, boot out the large, anonymous, uh, American corporate behemoth. Oh, that's the way people from Adelaide put it. I think it's more a case of it didn't work out for them, uh, shipping stuff eight hours from the nearest, uh, large city. I think that might have. Might have been part of the problem, Sam.
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Not just that. It's a case of, uh, there are several other coffee shops all around the Adelaide CBD. In fact, you will find that anywhere in Australia. Uh, since the 1950s, we've had, uh, Greeks and Italians, uh, come out here and introduce their coffee culture to us to the degree where that, uh, yes, we're more obsessed with this, uh, stuff then, uh, quite often a lot of Italians are. So, yes, we like a good coffee. We don't like it sweet. We don't like it with them additives. We just like a good coffee.
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Um, yeah, it's a flat white, I have to say, having a child with, um, a dairy intolerance. Coffee with hot milk. And it always smells a little bit like baby sick to me. Speaking of babies, our guest today, uh, Erin Wilson, became CEO of her own business at the age of 22. Um, having lost her sight at the age of 15. The White Cane Coffee Company wins awards not just for its coffee, but it's also an organization with a heart. Uh, it provides employment for people not only with blindness, but with other disabilities who would otherwise face discrimination. So, Sam, in the course of my research, uh, for this week's show, I found a statistic online that said that in the states, 78% of blind people are unemployed.
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Wow. That's even worse than here.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I think you and I agree that that sometimes if you have a vision impairment, it's a little bit harder to find a job than it is for other people, isn't it?
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It is. But I mean, it's a good example here. What you're dealing with is that, uh, often if someone goes for a job in a coffee shop, they're going to see someone with a disability of any sort and go, oh my God, we're dealing with hot water. We can't do that. Whereas I think it's up to us to say what we can and can't do. And, uh, yes, I've I'd love to do a barista course, actually. So, uh, you know, that's something to take into account as I have this ever growing collection of coffee and tea making utensils in my kitchen.
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You should have bought the expensive one in the first place. Here we go. This is our interview with Aaron Willman, who is the CEO of the White Cane Coffee Company.
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This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
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Recording remotely with Aaron from across the Atlantic Ocean. Uh, given time zones and distance and practicalities, well, it proved a little beyond what we could do in the time. So we enlisted the help of, uh, a local journalist in Warren County, uh, in Pennsylvania. His name is Brian Hagberg. Uh, and he works for an organization called Your Daily Local. And he started off by asking Aaron what it was like to go blind when she was just 15 years old.
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I'm not going to lie, losing your vision when you're 15 is rough. It like there was, like, a good couple months where, uh, just like. You're down on the count, but eventually you. Pick yourself up and you're just like, okay. How do we adapt to this situation? Just like I can't. Like for like the first couple months. So like, there was like this wall right next to my bedroom, and I had, like, a permanent bruise on my arm just because I kept it. And just like, all right, we need to figure out how to use a cane. I need to learn how to read again, because I was in the middle of a book series when I lost my vision. Still never finished it, sadly. But what serious? Um, Percy Jackson and the Olympians. The only thing worse than.
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Being stuck at home is being stuck at home without a coffee. We can't let that happen. Browse our selection and order online. From sweet to tangy. Potter ice, we have something for you. White King coffee because every cup makes a difference. Cheers.
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I'm sober just because there's like. I have a lot of family members on who struggle with alcoholism. And so growing up, seeing them just like, yeah, I don't want to go down that road. So just like I don't drink just personally. And there's not a lot of places, sadly, in Oregon where there just like drinking isn't a big thing. I mean, there's like a few restaurants, but just like there's not enough places for or sober people to just go and hang, hang out and meet people and just sort of have a date. And so we hope to eventually have like night hours here where people can meet, meet up over coffee and just sort of have that.
And even even when we got this space, we're just like, it's big enough that eventually we would like to do other things, like maybe open mic nights or like karaoke nights or just like have some dances here just because it's something that young people can do here. That you can't really do at a bar without sort of that social stigma to it. Once I learned how to read Braille, once I learned how to get around, once I learned everything you're supposed to do to be a functioning member of society while being disabled. Just like, all right, it's time to join the workforce. We went around knowing all they ever saw was the white cane. All the. Like you could hear them. Basically putting my resume in the trash like if and it's disheartening. And after you do that over and over and over again, you're just like. You, you're you get back into that sort of down place and so. It came to a point where me and dad were just sort of talking, just like, this sucks. And so this is where, like, get me out of that funk. So we're playing a game just like, if you had this much money, what would you do with it?
And so we started talking about starting a coffee company that employs disabled people, because if I'm not getting hired, right, other disabled people aren't getting hired. So and then we just kept building on that for days, two weeks until eventually we're just like, are we doing this? And so I don't think I really sort of picked up that we were doing this until like, just like, hey, could you make a logo coffee? I've always described it as like the great uniter. So like people, whether they're disabled or or completely able bodied, they can come together and learn about each other on their own. Just. Connect over over something that we all drink for the most part. And if you don't drink coffee again, we have our lemonades, we have our hot chocolate. We have have iced tea. I don't think I've ever really considered settling for less, I mean. Ever since we started this, it was really only just like we want to be. Bigger and bigger than Starbucks. Just like wherever there are disabled people, there should be a place for employment for them. And why not white cane coffee? So we never really thought, just like, I don't want to be the best line business owner, I just want to be the best. Yeah.
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Well, yeah. And that was, you know, speaking of the best, you were just recently second year in a row named Best Organic Coffee. And, um, but we, you know, we were kind of talking about some of the, the awards and the accolades that waking has received. And, and, you know, some of those, like you said, it's like you're almost being rewarded for being a, a person or a business owner who just treats people the way they should be treated. Um. And how much of that went into the planning stages of this? You know, I know obviously you wanted this to be a place where other disabled people could find work. Um, but how much of that like, we want to treat all of our employees as people should be treated. Went into the planning stages of this. Really became a mission.
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From the very beginning. Again, just like even when we were conceptualizing this was. I've always said, people are people. No matter their creed, color, ability. It doesn't matter. All people have a right to gainful employment. All people have a right to be respected. Everyone deserves right. Be treated like a person. And whenever there's a situation where that's not the situation, I get a little bit upset. So. Yeah, I'm going to push back against that. So you know like I. So that's just who I am as a person. And so yeah, I don't take people looking down on other people very lightly.
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And and how has that kind of, uh, you know, that that fierceness, I guess, is the best word I can use to describe that when that kind of comes out. How has that served you? Um, you know, as a business owner, when you're kind of going after things and saying, hey, we need this to help our business grow, but we need to help our business grow because we can be the model for other businesses and how people should be.
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So it's sort of a sort of a 5050. Sometimes when it comes to reaction, some people are just like, yes, we will get behind and this, this, while also simultaneously people will be just like, we are getting schooled by this young 20 something year old girl. Like, who does she think she is? But like. I don't care. It's like. It's like I'm. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and I'm going to keep trying to. Be better because. I don't want to stagnate or just like. Because people will look at disabled businesses or just disabled people and think less. That's why all of our coffee, all of our products, they have to be the best possible grade. It can, can be because people will assume the worse until they try. It's.
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And please do try it, because it's fantastic. Um, not just the frozen lemonade that I'm sampling right now. Um, but also but, you know, and, I mean, I kind of experienced a little bit of that. The first time I brought it back home. And because I think so many people. Equate sometimes. Expensive coffee with or, you know, homegrown or brewed coffee with something that they're going to go get at, like a Starbucks or Tim Hortons or whatever, which is not not good, because that's what we've become accustomed to, right? As a society, as you're paying essentially premium dollar.
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For a brand. Yes.
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And and so even my wife was like, ah, I don't know if this is, but I, you know, I brewed a pot and I gave her some and she tried and this is great. And, you know, now it's it's essentially all that we drink. We had a little Maxwell House. We had to get, you know, through the system.
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I'm so sorry.
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Um, but, you know, and now it's it's all that we drink and it's like, okay. Yeah, we paid a little bit more, but we're helping local business and we're we're paying that little bit of extra for a quality product that we actually enjoy. And it's I think it's just again, so many people have that. Oh, I'm paying a little bit more for it. I pay a little bit more for this other brand over here, and it's not very good. And maybe I don't want to try that. And how much of that kind of, of stigma that you guys have to kind of overcome here? Just getting people.
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Oh, just like when we first started out, we would have people come in just like, oh, even my own family room. Family, like my, my extended family would be just like, oh, how great that you're starting a coffee company. Or we'll come in for a cup to support with the little blind girl. And then they have a cup just like, oh my God, it's good. And then and then they would keep coming back. So yeah, they would come in for pity, but they, they would keep coming because we have a quality product.
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And so, you know, you just gotta oh we're going to support the little blind girl. And again, it's a, it's kind of touched on a little bit ago as a. Young twentysomething female business owner who also happens to be blind. I mean, there's there's a lot of different kind of groups here that that you fall into that are not your prototypical business owners.
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Oh yeah.
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And so I am aware, but so how much how much does that drive you and what kind of, of kind of obstacles have you had to overcome, not just for being blind or not just for being alone, but, you know, kind of combining all of those things all at once.
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I think getting some of that push back makes me push back even more, just to to the point where I will go to different groups and talk to them about how to start their own coffee companies or their own companies in general, because a lot of disabled people, the second they turn 18, they are on their own and they really have no idea what to do next. So I go out there, I talk to them like people, which a lot of them sometimes that's like the first time that's ever happened. Them just like, oh my gosh, we're being talked to like people. It's incredible. So I will go over there to them. Just like one of my favorite things is talking to schools, especially because and I will tell them straight up, just like I hate to sound corny, but you guys do know you are the future of the the industry. And the funny thing is, we did that once and like, I could hear some of them get like choked up and they're just like, that means so much of you guys to say that. And I could hear their teacher in the back go, guys, I tell you this every day. And so we had to laugh. Yeah, yeah.
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You're talking about you're going through the whole planning process and you you open a business. Did you ever think that it would lead to? Now you're being asked to go speak in schools and other different venues and, and and what has that been like? And what was it like the first time somebody asked you to come and speak in front of an audience?
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I mean, I've never been afraid of public speaking. I'm actually way worse in crowds, but. I think, like the first question I ever got, I ever, like, sort of responded back to when I was asked to talk in front of people is I like I'm not that interesting, but apparently a lot of people find me interesting and I don't quite get it. I still don't quite get it, but like, but no, I, I keep pushing to. I hate to use the word, but to inspire people to find their own path and to make something because yeah, it sucks that being disabled, it sucks being looked down upon. And it sucks if you lose your vision at a weird time in your life and you have to readapt to the world because it's an able bodied world and it was made that way. So to adapt to it's difficult, but you can come out of it still stronger and better, and you can make something of it and talk.
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About the adaptations and things like that. What was what was the hardest part for you? Was it, you know, was it reading the Braille? Was it learning to use the cane when you had to make all those adaptations? What was the hardest one for you to, to fully grasp.
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The cane was difficult. I mean, the braille was only took its own time because while I was learning Braille, that's when they switched to, um, United English Braille, like halfway while I was learning, just like, all right, I have to relearn some new awesome things. That's okay. We'll figure this out. But the cane was a little bit tricky. Just like since the funny thing is, when I was first starting to learn how to use my cane, my dad also signed me up for both staff lessons because he straight up said, you are a small blind girl. People are going to look at you as a target. Do not be a victim. And so we go to the class and the teachers, just like I don't know how to teach a blind person. And I sort of go, oh, I'm sorry, do zombies only come out during the day? He's like, fair enough. And so he would like, instruct me on like how? Like he would adjust my stance with his own cane, just like he would, like, move my arm up or move my leg back using his. Okay. And so yeah, I'm I'm a black belt in both stuff.
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Okay. See something else? We learn something every time I tell you this. So I said this is my favorite my favorite show to do. Because every time we do it, I learn something about somebody that I had no idea of, um, you know, and talked about, you know, with the techniques and stuff. And there's, there's multiple techniques, right, in using and using the cane. And, and again, I think that's, you know, one of those things that most people don't even it never enters their consciousness.
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And different types of cane and like which one works for you. And a lot of people use the classical cane. I don't just because I don't like the vibrations that go through it, it gets sort of muddled for me. There are also different tips for different canes. Canes for like those for runners, for those who enjoy that. But just like so I went with a very basic standard cane. And what's wild is how expensive a basic standard cane is, like everything for disabled people is expensive. But like I remember it was like a couple of years after I went blind, just like that. It showed Daredevil came out and like I would, I would watch it with my brothers and they'd be like, yep. And he gets through his cane in a way to go parkour around the city. I'm just like, dude, that's like 70 bucks. They already established your poor. You better go back for that.
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Forget the fact that he's a blind guy doing parkour and beating people up across. He's throwing his cane away. Come on.
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Like in the first episode, they say that like they could barely afford a coffee machine. And he's throwing away his expensive cane to go parkour. I'm just like, bro, you better be going back for that.
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One of the one of the things that people you know will often say is if you if you lose, you know, sight or hearing or whatever, that some of your other senses become.
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Partially.
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True. Partially true. Okay. Only partially.
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I have extremely sensitive hearing like. And my sense of touch is very I'm very tactile. But just like when I first went blind, the world was deafening, just like I could. I remember like the first month I lost my vision. I heard someone's car get broken into like two blocks away from my house, and I'm just like, well, I can't do anything about that.
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Come on, Daredevil, that's your that's your thing right now. Come on. Were there were there any you know, you said you were kind of a tactile person. Was that always the case or did that come after you lost?
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I was always the case. And then it heightened. So just like I remember, like even as a kid, like, like me and my dad, we would like, go to like the fabric area of stores and just like to touch things and like, get in trouble doing that. So but then like, I lost my vision, certain fabrics are just like, no, we can't touch that ever again. Just like, no, that's wack. No, can't do that.
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And so there are like certain things that you just can't texture or the sensation. It's just too much.
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Yeah. It's just. Yeah.
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They said.
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Don't even get into being, like, overwhelmed by sound because. Because like, I come from like a really big extended family. Family functions are a nightmare just because I can't tune out everyone's conversation. So I'm hearing everyone all at once. So it can be difficult if someone is talking to me directly, because I might not hear them because I'm hearing everyone else in the room. I mean, that's sort of always been a thing due to my autism, but it's sort of gotten heightened once I lost my vision. So, yeah.
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You know, Aaron, through through all of this, you know, I think most people would would look at your story and your business and say, kind of made it. But again, just the conversations that I've had with with Mom and Dad throughout the yeah, we're not done yet. You're not even close to that. So what, what you know, in your mind, what what would making it quote unquote making it look like for you and for White King?
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I don't think there's ever truly a making it. I think there is a sort of. We will constantly adapt and grow to the situation, like even with the pandemic. We adapted to that and we came out of it to just as solid as we did as anyone could. But I feel like. As the world keeps progressing, we're going to keep progressing like again. And I said earlier, as grateful as I am for the award, that is not how I sort of. Judge success. The way I judge success is how many people have I impacted? We will constantly find out, find out that other businesses have started putting Braille on things, or like there is a beer company that now has braille in its cans and they call it Braille ale. And we message them and saying, just say, hey, welcome to the Inclusivity Club. And so. The more that we can make. Things accessible to people. And the more that people with disabilities feel empowered onward to do things like, it's cool that I get these awards, but it's more impactful to me that if there is some kid out there on who is disabled on who, here's a hey, this disabled girl won an award, maybe I can do something like that too. That is way more impactful to me than any any trophy or award could ever be.
26:28S6
Except for that one that has that million dollars, right? You're gonna live that lifestyle for your dad, right?
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Yes. Dad is. Dad is hoping for the Nobel Prize so he can live the life that he would like to become accustomed to.
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Uh, probably the life that most of us would like to become accustomed to. Aaron, again, thank you so much.
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Thank you for having me.
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Uh, usually dragons rules. That's the. That's my preference. This one's in that I forgot to ask, I knew it, I was I knew I was going to forget to ask. What's your favorite.
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Roast? Oh, man, that's a tricky one, because. I'm going to be honest, I am a flavored girl. So any time that we have like any of our mints out, just like I go for it, just like I know who I am.
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And not ashamed to show.
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Right. That's your lot for this week. A huge thank you to Aaron Willman of the White Cane Coffee Company for taking the time to talk to us.
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And of course, thank you for listening.
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We'll be back next week. But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
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That was white with no sugar.
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Anyway.
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You can email Studio One at Vision Australia org - that's studio one at Vision Australia-dot-org.
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Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
