Tandem cycling

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This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.

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Hey there. It's Lizzie.

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And this is Sam.

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And you're listening to Studio One, Vision Australia Radio's weekly look at life from a blind and low vision point of view. On this week's.

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Show, we've.

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Done helmets and traversed the country to investigate one of the most recognisable blind sport tandem cycling.

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As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think, or if you think, Lizzie.

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That there's something we should be talking about.

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You can email us Studio One at Vision Australia. Org, that's studio one at Vision australia.org. We'd also love to hear from you if you've read our Facebook page that is facebook.com slash Vision Australia Radio Networks. Well dear listener, welcome back. This show this week is all about tandem cycling. And where better to learn about tandem cycling than a coffee shop? Hello, Lizzie.

01:09S2

Hey, I actually can think of one place better to learn about tandem cycling. And that's actually while tandem cycling. Yeah, but.

01:16S3

I'm not that physical anymore. And anyway, I've already dressed up in the lycra and I'm sure everybody around me appreciates that. What's interesting with these pants is they might look like me. Look, I'm wearing a nappy or something, but oh well, this is the most important bit though. We've got two cups of coffee in our hand and oh, do you want one of those jam doughnuts?

01:35S2

I think carrot cake will probably be the better way to go, mate. You know, save some digestive discomfort.

01:41S3

Anyway, so I've been away for the last few weeks, and, uh, you've been busy finding stuff. So who are we talking to? And what's the general gist?

01:51S2

We're talking to Stephen Kemp, who is a current national champion. Uh, we're talking to Kevin McIntosh, who's the founder of the Australian Tandem Academy and also para cycling coach. And hopefully we get to catch up with some mates, Lily and Jay, who I actually raced against at nationals.

02:10S3

Let's catch up with Lee and Jay first.

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All right.

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I am here in the heart of Adelaide with Lily and Jay.

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And another tandem team from New South Wales. So, Lee, do you want to tell me, how long have you been riding together? We have been riding together for.

02:33S4

Sorry. Hi, Lizzie. Nice to be here. Um, we have been riding together for about 18 months, competing together for about 12, so not that long. But, uh, Jay bounced across my front yard, and, um, I was told, called by, um, the head of tandems said, I've found a new pilot for you and female, and she needs to learn how to be a pilot for another male triathlete. Blind triathlete. And I said, okay, no worries. And, um, across the lawn came this six foot tall, six foot one tall, blonde, Amazonian. And I said, shit, I'm in trouble. Um, and, uh, the first thing she said was, oh, hi, I'm Jay. Oh, you need Kit. I didn't even know what Kit meant. Oh, really? So. So it's a cycling gear and, um. Yeah. So 18 months later, we're bronze medal at nationals and about to compete in our first World Cup.

03:30S2

And from what I understand, you were telling me earlier, you guys don't just be cycling together. What other sports have you competed in?

03:38S4

We do. Jay. Also, I was also told that I would soon be asked by Jay, do you want to do a triathlon? Yeah, I said no. Um, and I was soon convinced to do to do one. And I did a triathlon with Jay, and I've done one triathlon now, and, uh, we did an aqua bike very recently where we did a two kilometer swim in the open water in Lake Burley Griffin in Canberra and a 90 day bike ride to follow. So that's called an aqua bike.

04:03S2

Wow, that's absolutely amazing. And, Jay, we'll just cross to you. So tell me about your experience as being a pilot, because the whole idea of tandem cycling is that the the sticker on the back is solely reliant on a fully sighted person to compete or even just be able to participate in this sport. So for you, did that mean that you had to set aside your own goals or what was the deal? What what were your thoughts going into it? I think probably for.

04:33S5

Most people, the first time they get on the front of the tandem to guide or to pilot, and your first fear is you're going to do something wrong. It's the responsibility of doing everything correctly. And initially, that's what was stopping me. I had a lot of trepidation about doing something and hurting someone behind. If you're in charge of your own bike, you can make mistakes. But when someone else is on that bike too, there's a lot of responsibility. But actually, the moment I got on, I realized it's not just me at the front pedaling away. And it's a team. And in a way, you don't get cycling on a solo. Lily and I have learnt to work together in the most amazing way and you will know, and I'm sure you do understand, that moment when you just come together, going around a corner doing a big descent. There's nothing like it and it's a fabulous buzz. I've put some of my personal goals to one side, but I don't feel like I've lost anything. In fact, my goals because we're a team at are the same as Lilly's. It's not my goals or her goals that our goals, and when we achieve it together, I think we get more of a buzz from that than you ever do just doing something on your own.

05:37S2

So teamwork really does make the dream work.

05:40S5

Absolutely. Absolutely.

05:42S2

I competed in the nationals. I did two, which is where I met you lovely ladies and absolutely brilliant friendship has bloomed out of it. But what are your experiences with the time trial and the road race? Were you excited to compete? Were you nervous.

05:56S4

Excited to compete in that competition? As I said, I've only really been. Um, for less than 12 months. So for me to go into the national competition, um. This was amazing. So we always knew I was a time traveler. I'm I don't everyone will know that Lily doesn't like to climb. And Buninyong and Ballarat is super hilly. Um.

06:27S2

Yeah, that's not a climber.

06:29S4

So no, no, not a climber. And a flats and descents and my my happy place. So, um, we always knew we'd do okay in the time trial. And we got out there and, uh, we, uh. Yeah, we gave it for 18km and, uh, we gave it everything we had, and, you know, descended at 80km an hour and, you know, did those hills the best we could and smashed it on the flats and won a bronze medal. So I, uh, we left nothing out there and, you know, came off that bike in tears. So they certainly smashed us in.

07:00S2

The time trial. And I tell you what, racing against you, those was an experience.

07:05S4

Yeah. But let's flip over to the road race. I heard you guys were calling out to the, uh, to the crowd to say, how far behind us are they? How far behind this?

07:16S2

Yeah.

07:16S4

So we tried to catch you.

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My pilot. I don't know if she knows a few people around. She seems to know everyone. And she would literally find a person and just be like, how far behind are they? How far? And this the same person who was on the hill was giving a split every single time we did the climb. So it was actually quite amusing.

07:37S4

Yeah, I guess, um, yeah. No, we, we, we learn a lot from I certainly I learn a lot from, uh, from those two races that are entirely different. The PT and the road race are entirely different. Highly different. Um, so we know now going into World Cup that we're time trial is and the Ben suits us. The race track suits us. So we'll go out there and, um, and be in a very happy place for 15km.

08:04S2

15km? Yeah, that's a nice distance. Yeah, especially on the flat. You guys will absolutely smash it off.

08:10S5

Sure hope so.

08:11S2

So let's talk about training. Did you guys try together? Very often. How many times a week? You.

08:19S5

Yeah. We do. Um, the only thing is. So it is reliant on me being around, and I have a tendency to tear off on holidays and vanish. And which leaves Lily in a tricky position. And we got told early on by John Demander, another by athlete. It's important for the by athletes to have a selection of different people who can file it and you can do different things for those different people. And so Lily's got a great team around having your levels and.

08:46S4

Yeah, it's um, yeah, I'm very, very blessed. I can't begin to tell you, in the last year, people have turned up in my life that have just helped me change or helped me, you know, be stronger, faster, change my mindset, change my body, change my way. I eat the way. Um, everything really. And, uh, so I've got everyone from a coach to a nutritionist, um, a bunch a whole triathlon club pilots, three male and Jay that I can draw on. Um, and, uh, even a mindset coach and a psych and all sorts of people who I'm surrounded with. So I could not be here without any of them. I would not be here without any of them.

09:27S2

That is amazing. Yeah, yeah, I was my grandparents, uh, supported us at nationals. They came up and made the trip. And I was saying to them that having a constant pilot, I'm not fortunate enough to have more than one pilot, sadly. But, um, having a pilot who's constantly there and whose mindset is different to yours really makes you think about things differently. And like, I know we've we lower and I every time we have a conversation about training or nutrition or whatever, I end up coming out feeling enlightened. It's just amazing how athletes can band together.

10:04S4

Oh, absolutely. And I, I from day one, I as I said, I knew nothing about this sport really. Um, and you know, from the lingo through to, you know, how to eat, how to feed, how to eat on the bike, how to eat off the bike, how to it's just, you know, recovery and all that sort of. J taught me most of that. Yeah, probably 90% of that Jay has taught me.

10:25S2

I'm still struggling with that.

10:26S4

Um, I'm great eating.

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I eat all yeah.

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She doesn't stop eating. So I had to then learn from what Jay told me, then adapt that to my body and what works for me. So now I'm kind of almost know how to fuel. Had of going into these races. I know how to fuel properly and I had to recover properly. It gosh, it's such a it's almost like a science. But um, yeah, that's again teamwork. It's, uh, I wouldn't I couldn't ever have done any of that on my own.

10:54S2

So the million dollar question, I guess I want to know, do you train indoors?

10:57S4

I don't know, yes. So early on when I decided to do this, uh, chase a dream, which was to compete at national and international level, that was the dream. Um, I knew I wasn't going to be able to be on the bike. Um, you know, coaches told me that I needed to be doing a certain amount of kilometers a week and whatever. So I purchased a, um, a costly piece of equipment. The way you kick a smart bike. Oh, um, and, uh, and I spend, well, at least six days a week on that.

11:27S2

Yeah. Same. Um, because for me as well, a we can only get out once a week and that's if, uh, you know, hasn't got her own races going on. I'm not busy doing something. And. Yeah, sometimes it's just hard to line things up. I mean, we both work and we both have other commitments, so most of my training is done indoors. However, I'm not as posh as you. I don't have a lot to keep you. I have a small, small China, which I love dearly. Yeah.

11:53S4

Look, I think it's funny because when I first got this piece of equipment, I, you know, I was doing hours on it and just going, I don't love this piece of equipment. Now I no one is allowed to come near it or touch it or get on it or try it out or anything. It's mine are all set up for me. I can say.

12:12S2

Mindset because even though I rag on my bike all the time, because it's a it's a bike that's been around a bit and I have, um, endearingly termed it shit heap. That's its nickname. Oh, yes. For me. Okay, I rag on my bike, but if anyone sits on it or goes near it, I get super offended.

12:33S4

Yeah, but I guess the beauty of this is, as a visually impaired athlete, as my coach lives in Sydney, he's able to program directly into training pics. I then upload that that's then automatically uploaded into Trainer Road. I put it on my iPad, the bike talks to the iPad and that all talks to me. And I get it literally just to have to get on and press a button and off I go on, on and I've got the workout in front of me.

12:55S2

Yeah. I've also got one system which works on a similar yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I know that one.

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Platform or a similar way, which is amazing. And you know, it's definitely changed my life in.

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Me and me in a big, big way. So yeah, answer your question. Absolutely. Indoor training is I wouldn't be where I am without that trainer.

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I would say to anyone that was just pondering, giving, piloting a go, it's the Lost Boys. Oh, I lost leading first mate.

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Don't be scared and get out there and you'll make friendship. You'll push harder and you'll have more fun than you could possibly imagine. And it will open your horizons to a whole aspect of cycling you'll never have access to otherwise. So you have a go.

13:42S2

I mean, what do you have to say? Um.

13:45S4

For aspiring pilots, you mean what.

13:48S2

People do in wanting to give piloting a go, but maybe two hesitant? I guess. Yeah.

13:53S4

Don't be scared. Give it a go and realize that they're not doing all the work. Um, you know, uh, the stoker is is, um, you know, is there to, to assist and be the power and, uh, and, you know. And, you know, communication is huge. So if they're not, they're not talkers or they're not used to communicating with someone because it really is a team. You have to be, you know, one person almost on the bike sometimes. Um, yeah. But yeah, don't be afraid just to give it a go, even if it's just a bike ride around the block or something, just to see what it feels like. Yeah.

14:27S2

Amazing. And you girls are such a dynamic team. I know from seeing you at nationals, and I'm going to come and spectate at the World Cup. Uh, you guys are so dynamic and you work really well together. And I hope that you get the results that you want. Thanks. Thank you.

14:42S6

So much. Yeah, it's been a pleasure.

14:49S3

So these people actually beat you, so you're still talking to them?

14:53S2

Hey, they only beat us in the time trial. We smashed them in the road race. It was a well deserved bronze. Mariah. All right.

14:59S3

Who's up next?

15:00S2

I believe we're gonna talk to Steven. Ride my bicycle. Bicycle? Stephen, how are you today?

15:08S7

Good, thanks. How are you?

15:09S2

Yeah, I'm really well. Thanks. So you're actually quite an accomplished tandem cyclist. Can you tell us about some of the competitions that you have participated in?

15:19S7

I'm current road race national champion. Uh, I've won previous, uh, national champions in the track, pursuit, track, sprint and road time trial. I just competed at the Adelaide World Cup at ten in bend, and last year did, uh, World Cups in Italy and Belgium and plan to do that again this year.

15:42S2

So the World Cup was held last week wasn't it?

15:44S7

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Early January.

15:46S2

That would have been extremely hot. Yeah.

15:49S7

It was pretty toasty. And uh, and later in the day, um, we had, uh, the time trials in the morning and road race in the afternoon the next day. So, um, road race was hot. Um, pretty exposed out there at the Bend Motorsport Park.

16:02S2

So, yeah, it would be. And mostly flat, right?

16:04S7

Yeah, mostly flat, exposed and windy. So, um, pretty toasty. But we managed.

16:09S2

I'm sort of sort of glad I didn't race because I can't really sweat very well. So heat and me do not like we're just not compatible.

16:18S7

So we did some ice stockings and stuff too. But, uh, they only lasts so long.

16:23S2

So the point of today's episode is to talk about sports in which athletes such as yourself and myself are solely reliant on sighted people in order to compete, or even just to be able to participate. And tandem cycling is one of those sports. I mean, without a without a pilot, you're not getting out on the road. So how long have you been cycling for for a start. And was it really hard for you to find pilots to begin with?

16:50S7

So I started cycling a single bike racing around the age of 12. I was always riding a bike before that, but I started racing around 12 until, um, the cycling federation told me I couldn't race single bikes anymore. About 18 had a transition to tandems. Because of that I was lucky to fall in my coil. Um, and when I started riding tandems, were you part.

17:17S2

Of the tandem project? No, I.

17:19S7

Was going ahead. So before that, um, I rode with him for a few years, and then I fell away for a couple of years, and, uh, they established Tandem Project, and, uh, now I'm riding back with him. Besides my kids, it is very hard to get pilots. Uh, it's very hard to get someone to dedicate their time to someone else's, uh, ambitions and and goals and or just recreational time for some people. People want to do that for themselves and have their own motivations and goals and needs and wants. So to do it for someone else is really like, uh, um, you know, generous.

17:53S2

So it is. And I was talking to Lily and Jay about this a couple of weeks ago when we caught off a coffee, actually. And Jay, uh, obviously being the pilot, actually said that she had to put some of her own personal goals aside. But in doing that, her and Lily created goals as a team. Would you say this is something that your pilots have been willing to do, or is it has it been hard to marry your goals with theirs?

18:19S7

Absolutely. So, um, for example, my my first properly competitive, uh, Violet recently was, uh, Shane Perkins, who just retired out of the elite single bike scene. And, uh, uh, that was an experience. And, uh, but, yeah, he had his own life goals and, and stuff that he needed to pursue. And so that fell away. The next part that I had, uh, he had his own ambition to, to get to the Paralympics in our case. But, you know, he had the same goal. So it worked for him to, to try and achieve the same goal. Um, so when you sort of need to have the same goal, the same ambition to be able to work together to to get somewhere and to be able to dedicate your efforts at that elite level, at least to get the workout and get the work done to, to achieve.

19:09S2

Yeah, I imagine it must be quite difficult to find a pilot who's willing to, like I said, set some of their personal goals aside. With my own personal experience, I've found that my pilot, she's a cyclocross racer, um, predominantly. And so, you know, she has her goal and target races throughout the year. And unfortunately, as tandem cyclists, we don't have a lot of opportunities to race. Do you find that difficult or do you find that to be demotivating? The fact that we don't have a lot of opportunity to race throughout the year against other tandems?

19:42S7

Oh, absolutely. Um, it's always something um, that's been very frustrating. So, uh, you can't you can't show up to a local club race and especially on the track, you can't just jump on the track and race anyone because, uh, there's speed differences. There's, uh, safety issues at the, uh, they won't let you necessarily race single bikes on there on the. Velodrome. So you stuck limited to racing yourself, which. Well, you can go do that anytime you want. Really. So the racing opportunity is really is a real limiter. But, um, we're hoping to build a bit of a community with the Australian Tandem Academy and Central Districts is now obviously creating that new para program on on the Friday night. Yeah.

20:26S2

Bruce, I was gonna say we've got a lot where it seems that we're going to get a few more opportunities to get out on the track.

20:32S7

And hopefully, yeah, build a community and, uh, get, get more numbers out there, which will obviously aid. Yeah, making things interesting, more fun and just having having a community that will hopefully bring more and more people in.

20:47S2

So for sure, and I think the other issue for tandem cyclists, like I know for myself, unless you are being coached by the right people right from the get go or unless you win races right off the bat, there's not really any development opportunities for up and coming athletes. Has that been an issue for you?

21:07S7

Yeah, absolutely. So as I said, I started riding tandems with my cohort and didn't really get anywhere and fell away for a couple of years. And then it took me ten, 15 years to to learn what to eat. And, um, some lifestyle changes, including not working at night and when to ride and went to eat and what to eat and all those things that a matter when when you're doing elite sport. So now, now that I've got those things together and have a coach and, um, it's all starting to fall in place, you know, even even the, the family support that I've got now compared to, uh, a few years ago, it makes a huge difference. Wow. There's lots of things that go into.

21:46S2

It all for sure. There is like I've the, the whole nutrition and scheduling workouts and things like that has always been a massive problem for me. And it wasn't until recently that I actually got a coach and, you know, some guidance with that. So let's go into training because I'll just explain with me. I'm lucky if I can get out once a week. I mean, with my pilot doing her own races and working a 9 to 5 job during the week, I'd be lucky to get out each weekend. So a lot of my training is being done indoors. What? What about you? Where's the majority of your training done? Oh, absolutely.

22:24S7

Inside. Um, on the trainer. Um, so, uh, my race pilot is interstate in Brisbane. Yeah. And, uh, so I've got a handful of training pilots, if I may, who I might do some local races with, um, out on the road and some training rides. Obviously, everyone has limited time and their own work commitments and life commitments. So, yeah, I'm lucky to get out once a week and do do a long ride. Uh, I save the long rides for the the on the bike and do the intensity inside on the trainer and go from there. Yeah.

22:57S2

You don't want to be doing zone two on the trainer, do I mean, I've, I'm in the unfortunate position of 95% of my riding is done indoors. So that includes my zone too. And I can tell you right now there's nothing more mentally mind numbing than doing zone two on the trainer. It's not fun.

23:16S7

No, no, that's just boring, isn't it? You can do you can do some intensity and huff and puff and be distracted by the music for a while. But when you have to sit there for 2 or 3 hours, just twiddling over is, uh, pretty dull. Yeah.

23:31S2

I mean, knowing that it's going to be over soon definitely helps. Yeah. For sure. So the other thing I sort of wanted to touch upon briefly was you are vision impaired. So how do you go with interacting with training platforms?

23:44S7

So I found one that works for me with some vision. Um, I've been asked by a few, um, people who. Yeah, I know few people use Trainer Road. Yeah. Um, and find that reasonably accessible, but the most popular, which is Lyft, is, uh, is is exactly. Yeah. Um, and they're taking their time to even acknowledge the fact it is so. Well, uh, hopefully that will change because that's obviously the most fun and interactive, most popular where everyone trains. Yeah, lots of competitions and, uh, things on there, which. Yeah, exactly that we could, we could utilize, but just, just be sort of being excluded by. Yeah. Um, so that's a shame. But, um, I found one that works for me, which is perf pro and, uh, yeah, trainer Road, I believe is relatively accessible. Yeah. I haven't tried it myself.

24:36S2

I use Wahoo system, so they have a ten second, uh, like a sound effect that goes off 10s before the interval starts or stops. And depending on whether the interval is going up or down in intensity, it either makes a motorbike revving or screeching tires. So it's quite entertaining. And also Wahoo system has integrated as of two years ago, the sophist training platform, which means I get all of those lovely workouts to. Yeah. That hurts. So the fact that you can't just get out on a bike every day and train with a pilot, does that demotivate you from wanting to compete at an elite level?

25:14S7

Not anymore. It used to. Now that I've. I've got somewhere and got my ducks in a row as far as nutrition and family support and motivation and and all those things, I'm much more motivated. And it's much easier than it used to be. Um, I also used to do it, um, before these apps, and it was just on a spin bike where it was twist the knob and and estimate what you're doing. I remember no numbers or anything, so I'm quite motivated by the numbers and chasing chasing the watch all the time or watching things, um, watching the data. So, um, knowing where I am and what I'm doing is definitely of benefit as well. Compared to the odd spin bike where you got no, no information from it.

25:55S2

Yeah, I remember having a dumb trainer, as I call it, you know, just the old magnetic clip, the back wheel in and yeah, I thought I was fit. And then I, you know, I got on to Wahoo system and it turns out I wasn't so fit. So I mean, that was a rude awakening.

26:10S7

There's a reason why my people love all the data they're getting these days, whether it be power or otherwise. It's, uh.

26:18S2

You got something to chase, don't you? Exactly.

26:20S7

So that's the numbers I talk about is, um. Yeah, it gives you. It gives you something to chase. A motivator, a bunny rabbit to chase whatever you want to term it as.

26:30S2

Yeah, yeah, I think it's almost like for us who have to do a lot of our training indoors, I feel like it's almost as motivating as going out and getting that Strava. Com when you know you set a new five minute PB or you, you know, you get your your five second time in a sprint or whatever. Like it's just it's just as rewarding I feel.

26:48S7

Yeah. And you just have to find what what works for you, whether it be riding to the music or the, um, the number or or just the pain, if you like. If you like the pain, well, that's even better.

26:59S2

So that's it. So my last question to you, I asked Lily and Jay the same thing. And I, you know, I'd love to hear your answer, but what would you say to any single bike riders who are, you know, thinking about maybe giving piloting a go but are hesitant? What would your message to them be?

27:17S7

There's no harm in trying. It's a very good strength workout, the tandem, because it's so much heavier. Um, so, um, lots of feedback to say from pilots who've done it that it really benefits their own single bike, especially racing, because it makes them so much stronger. So that would be the number one takeaway for pilots, I think.

27:37S2

Fantastic. Well Steven, thank you for joining me today and it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you.

27:50S3

Well, he sounded like a nice guy. So last but not least, we are talking to the big Kahuna, as it were. Yes.

27:58S2

And I believe he's got some interesting things to tell us about the up and coming events in the Paris cycling world here in Adelaide. My guest in the studio is Kevin McIntosh. Now, Kevin has been the head coach for the Paralympic cycling team. And you've also coached quite a lot of world champions in your time as a coach, haven't you, Kevin? I've been very.

28:21S8

Fortunate with regard to the career path that I've actually been able to take and offered to me. It's been fascinating, but very satisfying as well at the same time.

28:29S2

So when did you actually start your role as a Paralympic coach?

28:33S8

I actually was offered the role back in 19 early 1998, once, uh, Sydney had been, uh, put as a date for the Paralympics, so obviously went for looking for a full time coach and, uh, I happened to be in the right place at the right time.

28:48S2

That's fantastic. And how long were you a coach for the Paralympic cycling team? For over.

28:52S8

15 years.

28:53S2

Wow, that's quite amazing.

28:54S8

It is. Actually, it was a long, a long, uh, term that I absolutely enjoyed.

28:59S2

So you would have coached athletes like Kieran Majura and Sonya moss, correct?

29:03S8

Absolutely. Yes. And, uh, like the local athletes. Uh, Kieran was, uh, obviously the late, great Kieran. Yes. Um, he's an enigma. And uh, uh, we had a lot of good times with Kieran and, uh, caring in his own way with sometimes trying in his, in his capacity as well, but mostly enjoyable. But he was a super athlete that we probably never saw the best of. Uh, as good as he was, we probably never saw the best of him because he actually had accidents at just the worst possible times.

29:34S2

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about quite a few of them, and a lot of them were done on his single bike.

29:38S8

They were. Yes, unfortunately.

29:40S2

Yeah. But he was also a great mentor, like I remember for me coming up in the, uh, tandem project, he was one of the biggest mentors for us athletes, and he had a lot of advice for us and he was fantastic. But today we're here to talk about, uh, sports that require athletes or sighted assistants in order to compete or even just to be able to participate. So you've coached a lot of tandem, uh, stokers in your time. How hard has it been to find them suitable pilots in order to compete at a top level?

30:12S8

In the past, as I said, like with regard from Sydney onwards, for about ten years, we actually had, uh, quite good access to some of the vision impaired athletes, uh, around the country. And for, for those 10 to 12 or years, we probably had, uh, at least access to 10 to 12 tandem bikes within reach of the program, whether it was T1, T2, or T3. A lot of them actually come out of Perth because, uh, Perth has a very good head, a very good program over there with regard to attracting athletes. And I have a I have an organization called West Australian Tandem Association. Yeah. And and we did get a lot of athletes through that. But locally, as you suggest that Kieran Moser himself, uh, actually uh, did a lot of, uh, work at, with a vision impaired athletes and he brought her through, uh, a few through with him as well.

31:03S2

And so what's the process in finding a pilot for a vision impaired athlete? So let me.

31:08S8

Tell you a little bit about what we're actually embarking upon now. It's, uh, we've started a charity called Australian Tandem Academy, and our mission is to promote vision impaired athletes to the national program. So we're, uh, we've come up with, um, a source of funding that will allow us to offer scholarships to, uh, selected athletes. Our aim is to then, uh, take them through different levels of competition with accredited coaches and professional coaches so that the end goal will be then that they, uh, hopefully will attain Paralympic status or Paralympic competition. So we'll provide both local and international competition for these talented ID athletes that we actually go and look for.

31:54S2

Okay. And how do you look for such athletes? So what's the process in identifying a talented athlete or one that could have the potential to go on to Paralympic success?

32:04S8

So what we'll actually use will be uh, ergo bikes that will show us what sort of power they're able to do when we have these TRD days. Yep. And we're able to, uh, gain some numbers through that process. South Australia or Adelaide will be the first part of this to come on board. And then we'll hopefully, uh, expand into the rest of Australia at slowly over a period of time.

32:25S2

That's amazing. And I'm definitely going to be out at the velodrome on Friday with bells and whistles. I've got myself a pilot. Excellent. Uh, a male pilot, unfortunately, not a female, but it's.

32:35S8

You're on the bike.

32:36S2

That's that's the main thing. So you've you're still coaching national champions, aren't you? Like, I believe Stephen Kemp is currently being coached by you. Is that correct?

32:46S8

Greg. Stephen has, uh, had a bit of a very journey with regard to his process, and we've started he's now on his third pilot, which is no fault of his own. He's been able unable to settle with a pilot, mainly because it's been very difficult for us to find a pilot here in Adelaide, and we've had to go outside the borders. And he sort of first partnered with Shane Perkins from from Perth, who they both rode to an Australian sprint title.

33:15S2

Yeah, that was quite impressive. I saw the footage. Well I didn't say they were.

33:20S8

But they were very impressive. And that in that process, because we then found it difficult to, uh, to then find another sprint pilot, we actually had to embark Steve upon a journey of endurance. So we put him in. We've sort of focusing towards road and road time trialling. Yep. Uh, Peter Spencer from uh, again from Queensland put his hand up and uh, uh, we ventured overseas to World Cups last year and they just had nothing but bad luck while they're away.

33:50S2

Oh, I heard, um.

33:51S8

Mechanicals and punches at just the worst possible time. So the whole process of that with Steve was to actually get him a qualifying ride that would put him into the national program. We missed out because of those mechanicals and in particular, one very badly timed puncture. We've come back and and tried to reload. Peter has had to stand down, uh, from being the pilot. We've actually brought on another pilot now with from Brisbane. Again, it's not the easiest thing to do to work with someone from another capital city. No, uh, the travel and the cost are a bit of a burden, and we're still looking for a local pilot to to come on board. Uh, the thing is that, uh, we have to find pilots going forward with the actual program. We're going to have to find pilots before we actually find the athletes, because we're actually going to have to have a pilot ready to go to actually nurture a vision impaired athlete to come through. So there's no time delay in that process for sure.

34:50S2

And and tandem cycling is so reliant on sighted assistance.

34:54S8

It is. And and it's also much more than that as well. Not only do you have to have that, the passion for cycling and the and the passion for maybe there's a bit of a service in this for the front pilot as well. There needs to be that, that personality that actually has open to maybe exploring different avenues. And we're talking about semi elite athletes at this point in time who actually want to try something a little bit different. The avenue to elite sport and professional sport for cyclists is a very, um, difficult one to go down that road. So we're actually offering something a little bit different to maybe an athlete who who has just missed out on an elite program, but wanting to come back and still represent Australia and look at that sort of service aspect of being able to care and nurture someone, to take them through to their goals.

35:43S2

That's the important thing, too, about, you know, pilot, Stoker. Um, team is that you have to marry your goals. Um, it's been really tricky for me to find pilots as well that are willing to do this, and I'm lucky to have a pilot that's willing to race with me at the state and national level. But, you know, she's got her own goals as well. And I think finding a pilot is the hardest thing about being a vision impaired athlete.

36:09S8

Yes. And, uh, I don't think people would really understand the difficulties until they actually, uh, jump on board sort of aspect of, of our program and see even trying to find people who actually have the time to actually train with these athletes, uh, which is another difficulty. We can have, uh, athletes who come on board the train, and we can have athletes who can come on board the race. So we can actually our goal is to share the load. Yeah. Uh, because obviously people have other things in their lives, uh, work, family, uh, of course, that sort of thing. So we're trying to find enough pilots to actually share the load and then to find the actual, uh, vision impaired athletes to, uh, to nurture.

36:47S2

So this will be a pathway into a national, uh, program, because there isn't there currently isn't an established pathway at the moment, is there?

36:55S8

What is actually transpired is that, uh, there was a few of us who actually got together, and one was my one of my assistant coaches, uh, during those Paralympic years as head coach. And then two athletes have actually come on board as well. Um, one of the athletes, um, uh, Bryce Lindores, is, uh, offered to assist in our process of actually doing this, along with Ben Demery. Uh, both of those are former program athletes who have represented Australia and done very well. They've come on board as board members to assist the progress of of what we're actually trying to set up. So sometimes it's really, uh, pleasing to actually have athletes who have been part of the program in the past to come back and now assist this program to actually go forward. It's really means a lot to me.

37:41S2

And it helps to have that lived experience as well. Absolutely. And. Mentor. The younger athletes coming through. Yeah.

37:48S8

And they also have a part to play as well, because they've been there and done it and sharing their experiences. And we've actually been having, um, we had a camp before Christmas in Brisbane or on the Gold Coast, and, uh, Bryce come along and, uh, you know, gave us his version of his process through that. And it wasn't easy, you know, for someone who's vision impaired to actually pick up a sport and run with it because, as we've already suggested, it takes someone on the front of the bike to actually assist that. And that's not, as we've already said, that's not easy either.

38:20S2

No, no, I feel like, uh, a lot of able bodied cyclists have their own goals, and therefore it's hard to find someone that's willing to set them their goals aside. It was interesting, actually, because I was talking to Lily and Jay. Uh, they competed at nationals with me. Um, absolutely smashed us in the time trial. And, um.

38:40S8

Going back in the road race. Yeah, yeah we did.

38:42S2

Oh, mate, that was amazing. I mean, I've never run. I've never put myself through so much pain to get a medal. I actually got injured, which was not fun. But, um, even Jay was saying that she has actually put aside some of her personal goals in order to work with Lily to actually reach the highest level that they possibly can. So that's one team that's absolutely smashing it out there, and it's so great to see. When do you think you start the process of talent identification and bringing on athletes on board?

39:12S8

So I guess with locally with Dion and what he's actually doing and setting up, uh, we'll start this Friday night. We need to advertise and get it out there and get these vision and people on board along with some pilots. Uh, but uh, we were actually, uh, will will be set up, uh, as a charity from July 1st. Yep. Uh, and then we'll, we'll already have everything in place to go forward from there. So first of all, we're targeting Adelaide. Yep. Once we have this as we have it sustainable to go forward, then we'll probably uh, look at Perth uh, because the Road Nationals are in Perth next January.

39:52S2

They are. Yes.

39:53S8

Um, so that's, that's a really big area that we can actually initiate to get more tandems there. Uh, there is some concern from our eastern tandem riders that Perth is a long way away. Yes, absolutely it is. Yep. Um, but let's let's take the positive and go, well, we need more tandem riders in Perth. So we'll take the opportunity to get, uh, we need to chase up someone from West Australian tandem uh, Association again to get them on board. Uh, we're also looking at, uh, talking to Cycling Australia about making the tandem competition actually open to tandems. So not just para athletes or vision impaired athletes, but open to tandems. If you've got a tandem, you can turn up and ride it. I believe that will do two things. It will instigate the numbers, uh, and enlarge the numbers. But it'll also give, uh, the opportunity for people to try tandem racing and maybe bring, uh, more into our sport of para sport.

40:47S2

Yeah, well, there's definitely a lot of couples out there and friends and people that are just riding tandem, uh, for the sake of riding tandem. Yeah, maybe they're not confident on single bikes. So it'll be very interesting to get to see how many tandems could turn up to a competition at once.

41:03S8

Absolutely. I mean, I think we one of the things that instigated this was, uh, the Tokyo Paralympics. As I said previously, back in the, um, Sydney, uh, Rio, London, those games, uh, we had strong tandem, uh, competition and we and we had, uh, strong tandem numbers in Tokyo. We didn't actually have one tandem representing Australia. So that was where this instigation actually. And, and the desire to actually get this up and running and promote tandem racing in Australia. Our goal is to get tandems to, uh, long term Brisbane. We need tandems representing Australia in Brisbane. But obviously there's a Los Angeles in the middle of Paris and Brisbane, so we have those to aim for as well.

41:48S2

Like we were saying before, I feel like it will give developing athletes a chance to to reach the highest potential as well.

41:56S8

We're not just looking at competition either. We're looking at community. We want to build the community of tandems. So if we can build the the community tandem, that will grow the competition side of it. Uh, as, as a side effect of.

42:08S2

That, like you said, it's not just about competitions, about general fitness as well. I mean, absolutely, I got into cycling, you know, the very start to improve my fitness. And I've absolutely fallen in love with the sport and got a thirst for racing and competition. And, you know, it, it would be amazing just to see how many people get that same passion and drive and want to participate in the sport.

42:32S8

Uh, tell me if I'm wrong, but I think if the vision impaired what it gives you with the speed and freedom, you feel the wind in your helmet. It used to be here, but now it's helmet. Yep. Um, but you actually get a feeling for actually, uh, movement and. The experience on a tandem can be quite exhilarating.

42:49S2

It can. And it's not just that, but but having the ability to explore areas of of your state that you haven't seen before, um, is amazing. I know we're planning some epic rides the Coast to Vines trail of, um, the velo way down south. These are places I haven't been to before, and just being on the tandem gives you such mobility as well. Yes it.

43:13S8

Does. A tandem can take you places, uh, for all those experiences. Um, and it gives you the, the outdoor experience with a bit of physical exercise involved. And uh, uh, we all probably understand that those that have been involved in the, in the vision impaired world, it's sometimes very difficult for vision impaired people to actually have some form of exercise.

43:34S2

Uh, or indeed that's actually been, um, a big thing for me. A big passion of mine is to get or promote the benefits of fitness within the blind, vision impaired community.

43:45S8

Yeah. I mean, if you're if you're a total vision impairment impaired, then, uh, the ability to actually experience a lot of things that normal people, normal sighted people have is certainly, you know, impaired and, uh, tandem riding is some is actually, uh, an experience that can take you to places that you just gives you a rush.

44:05S2

Exactly. And it's a bit more lower impact and less risk of injury than say, you know, running or hiking or any of the usual sort of sports that you might, you know, get into when you're starting into fitness.

44:17S8

So one of the other things we can actually, uh, we can talk about once we get the best late, uh, to ID process set up, is actually tandem touring and, uh, and offering tandem tours to, to the tandem community.

44:31S2

I would absolutely love to do that. I have been dreaming of that. That would be amazing.

44:36S8

So imagine riding through Tuscany and on a with a group of tandems that, uh oh yeah.

44:41S2

Or even just, you know, exploring parts of Australia that you haven't been to before. Absolutely. I hear cameras, prime real estate for ten and riding.

44:48S8

Uh, yeah. And that would be new to me. So we, we can all be offered new experiences. Yeah.

44:53S2

So just for the listeners that are interested in coming out and trying, can you tell us again when those come and try our sessions? Ah, so.

45:00S8

The first session is 7:00 at the, uh, uh, well, the velodrome, uh, in Adelaide, uh, Friday night, uh, I'm imagining that we will have tandems there ready to go. Uh, and we'll have some tandem pilots ready to go as well. If you're vision impaired, you can turn up and try a tandem.

45:20S2

Fantastic. And I'll be running every Friday.

45:22S8

Uh, it's every fortnight, I think, for about six, six nights.

45:28S2

Okay. Fantastic. Well, thanks, Kevin, for joining me in the studio today and talking all about tandem cycling and the, uh, new pathways for developing athletes and the Australian Tandem Academy. Uh, do you have a website or something that people can not yet.

45:41S8

We're still still very likely at this point in time. Stay tuned.

45:45S2

Yep. No worries. We will update the podcast and socials when those websites and things come up. So no worries. Again, thanks for joining me.

45:53S8

My pleasure.

45:54S2

Thank you, thank you. Forget to mention the bicycle.

45:59S3

I can't believe you talk me into this. Who are you having so much fun though? Oh, we've only just missed. I think next time I will ride on the front. Oh, mate.

46:08S2

You don't know what you're missing out on. This is a dream. I've always wanted to be a pilot.

46:13S3

So. Oh, no. This is another one. So join us next week when we are celebrating. If we like to call it celebrating Valentine's Day, we catch up with a few old friends and a few new friends and talk about dating when you are blind until now. And then please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something. Oh my God, I think there's something that we should be talking about. What's the email address again, Lizzie? Oh, hang on a minute.

46:46S2

At studio one - at - visionaustralia - dot -org.  That's studio1@visionaustralia.org. 

46:52S3

Until now. And then please look out for us on.

46:56S1

And stay tuned. Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.