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This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
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Hi, this is Sam.
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And I'm Lizzie.
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And this is Studio One, your weekly look at live from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.
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On this week's show.
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We look at the technology that is used on a day to day basis and chat with a man whose job it is to test out everything from an electric frying pan to a computer.
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David Woodbridge, Vision Australia's very own adaptive technology advisor, is our guest.
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As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
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Please contact us via email at Studio One at Virgin Australia, or that's studio One at Virgin Australia.
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Org or perhaps drop us a note on the station's Facebook page. We want to hear from you. Welcome back to Studio One. So, Lizzie, is there anything that's a particular bugbear for you as far as just everyday technology?
01:18S3
Yeah, I really, really struggle with microwaves. So I don't have a talking microwave at the moment. And I never got to ask David about what would be the best talking microwave on the market. But I really struggle with our microwave because it's a convection oven, and it also has a grill setting, which I never get to use because I don't know how to use it, and I would I know a lot of recipes with grilled chicken and grilled cheese and things, so I'd like to be able to get a talking microwave that can fulfil all those functions.
01:49S2
So basically, Steven, is your talking microwave, I'm presuming...
01:53S3
Steven is my talking microwave.
01:55S2
Yes, I now also there's another issue at the moment which we actually encountered when we first got in here today. You've got a fantastic Apple Watch and I know that you love this thing. You adore it.
02:05S3
Oh mate, it's my best friend.
02:07S2
So every time you touch it, it wakes up. And yeah.
02:11S3
I barely have to touch it. Like I could just slightly touch it with my leg. Or I can brush it against my leg or my shirt and it'll activate. And it's not so great when I'm sleeping at 3:00 in the morning and the volume is set to 100%, because I've forgotten to turn it down, and it blurts out the time and whatever other information it decides to splurge out at that time and wake everybody up.
02:34S2
Sometimes these things can be extremely convenient, and, uh, the able bodied world is sort of moving closer to things that are convenient for us. That's what I've noticed, really. I mean, it's a lot of things you can talk to a speaker and stuff like that. And by the way, I'm going to make everybody happy and say, Alexa, self-destruct.
02:53S4
Ooh.
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Now when everybody's stopped cursing me, we are talking to David Woodbridge. And he had a few things to say about just the things that we normally use on a day to day basis, like tablets, like computers, and of course, the ever lovable phone.
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Open the doors.
03:14UU
I'm sorry. I'm afraid I can't.
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After about, we're dealing with, nearly 15 minutes of technical issues. We are joined by David Woodbridge. G'day, David. Hello. Your job is basically to test out, um, the standard technologies for vision impairment. I've got that right, haven't I?
03:45S6
Yeah. Yeah. So. And that's basically almost everything and everything. So I really deal with the high tech stuff, at least from a Vision Australia point of view. So that's anything from washing machines to clothes dryers to TVs to computers, smartphones, smart home tech, anything you can possibly think of that, a blind or low vision person. But from my stuff is mainly blind that people want to access. That's part of my job to test it.
04:14S3
That must be so much fun.
04:16S6
It actually is, because it feels like getting paid to enjoy yourself. So every time I get a new piece of technology or there's an update to something, then I've got to test it. Because every time this is a long, long time ago, I've learnt very quickly that you can't assume that because something used to work. Um, when it gets updated, the chances are that it may not work. So that's also part of the job as well. So I can never assume, and I always test up before I open my mouth hopefully and say it's, you know, it's okay for our customers to use.
04:49S2
Does that cover software as well as hardware?
04:50S6
It does. So software wise, it covers not only the mainstream software for windows, Mac, Android and iPhone. I don't really touch Linux because it's not really used that often for blind or low vision people. And if you do use Linux, you're normally not enough techie person to work out what's going on, but it's also all the screen reading and text to speech and optical character recognition and AI and voice control and all that sort of stuff that goes along with it as well. So it's the combination of both the straightforward software technology, software and of course, how the hardware also interacts with that as well.
05:28S3
So how long do you usually take to test a product. Like what? What's the sort of timeline that you're given?
05:33S6
I'm one of those people that don't read the manual, so I only get forced to read the manual if I can't resolve something. And my my rule of thumb is I should be able to work most work at any product within around about 10 to 15 minutes in a gross manner. So that's like turning it on, using its main functions and then turning it off. And then depending on how complex it is, I mean, you know, you can't really say that a liquid level is complex, but if you've got a device that's a Braille note taker or you've just come across a new smart device, that's for home, then of course that's going to be a lot more complicated. So usually I probably say within about 7 to 14 days. So one week to two weeks I've got some idea. And then what I normally do is I write up my notes, send it off to people, uh, get them to pick it apart, send it off to the manufacturer or the developer to get comments on it, and then update it. And then at that stage, that's when it's sort of like finalized for us to use internally, actually.
06:34S2
Tell us a little bit about yourself. Um, David, because, I mean, you have, uh, a vision impairment as well.
06:39S6
Basically, I lost my tablet since I was born. I was a premature baby, and I was in a crib, and my mum had the horrible German measles, which meant rubella. So when I was born, my sight started to deteriorate. By the time I was eight, I really had to start learning Braille. And then I went to then the North Devon Blind Children's Centre for boarding school for about, um, what was it, about ten years. And then I went to set sail with some friends of mine when I went to university and did social work, and while I was doing my social work degree, I also did one degree or so, one year of computer science degree at Macquarie Uni. But back then. So I'm talking about sort of the early 80s, the technology wasn't advanced enough for me to think about doing something in computer science, but I always wanted to do something in technology. So I did four years when I finished my degree, or four years doing drug and alcohol counselling at Saint Vincent's Hospital in here in Sydney, at Kings Cross.
And then somebody said there was a job coming up at the then the royal blind starting in Australia. So I applied for that job in 1990. So for the first 15 to 17 years of that job I spent doing assistive technology consulting. So I would assist, recommend, train and troubleshoot, uh, people's assistive technology in mainstream tech at home education and employment. And then probably the last 15 years or so, that's where I've been doing more straight testing work, working with or giving feedback to places like Amazon, Google, Apple and Microsoft in relation to not only the assistive technology but to also apps. So, um, for example, I give feedback on different apps that, you know, for some reason might have got updated and that are actually broken. All they knew about. And we have a look at it and say, hey, it would be really great if you also made it accessible for people that use screen readers not only on iPhones, but on Android as well.
08:38S2
That is an interesting thing. When you talk about the mobile phone issue. I mean, mobile phones have changed a lot since they were first, first brought in. They started out as these big chunky things where you could feel the buttons, you knew where everything was. And now we've got these smart devices with screens. And for a long time everyone was thinking that, well, these would be utterly impossible for blind people to use, but it's proved quite the opposite. It's sort of lit a lot of people free on the internet.
09:08S6
It reminds me of the days where we went from... this is going way back now. I'm starting to really, really feel old now when we went from DOS to windows, because as soon as windows was mentioned, every blind person almost in the world threw up their hands and went, oh my goodness, how can blind people use a graphical user interface? And then, of course, it was about a year later that we could actually start using in windows. And then of course, when we went from the old Symbian phones that had talks on it that work if your standard keyboard. And then we heard about these horrible things that had flat screens on them that were called smartphones, I think people started to get very worried again, that like going from DOS to windows, we'd be locked out again.
But hey presto, it took about two years after the iPhone came out for us to have speech output. So VoiceOver and I think from memory talkback was about 2010 or 11. But before that we used to have these really weird devices. I remember there was a Dell PDA, and what they did was they wrote their sort of own software interface to it. It had this really weird rubber keyboard that you put over the touch screen, and then you use that sort of physical keyboard to then use it. I think back then it was called the maestro. I want to say it was called. So there was that sort of like ad hoc thing to use a PDA back at that time. And now ever since then, you know, we just almost took it for granted that we've got, you know, we've got screen readers and screen magnification and Braille support for both Android and iPhone. And if you would have asked me, you know, six years ago, I would have said, oh, look, you know, most blind people tend to use, you know, iPhones and iPads, but because Google has put a lot more work into Android and there are still some little issues with it.
But overall, um, in some ways Android gives you a little bit more flexibility than than what I find does because the iPhones, the iPhone. If you don't like the iPhone, then that's it. Whereas if you don't like a certain Android phone or you can't afford a certain Android phone, you can go and shop around. And of course, some phones you can add, you know, more memory to and do other stuff with it. So it really comes down to, you know, both of them looking at, you know, cost what you want to use the phone for and what you're used to. So, you know, if you're used to windows, then, you know, show Android or iPhone. It doesn't make any difference if you're a whole Apple universe type person. So you might use an iPad, um, and perhaps a mac. And, you know, maybe it makes more sense then to stick with with the iPhone. So I always say to people now these days, the, the choice is pretty much up to what you want to do and to make sure that the apps that you want to use on either platform do the job for you.
11:54S2
As somebody with a bit of a site, I do prefer the Android operating system because I can configure things more. I can adjust, uh, make subfolders. I can, uh, pretty much change every feature of the actual phone there where it's Apple does seem to be a little less flexible as far as that goes. You what you get is what you get.
12:13S6
That's right. And from a training and support point of view, that makes it a lot easier to support because, you know, if you've got an iPhone, you've got an iPhone, you've got the Homescreens, you've got your app switcher and all that sort of stuff. Whereas with the Android system, you have to start thinking, well, wait a minute. So with the manufacturer, what version of Android are you using? Um, if the person is using any particular launcher which doesn't even exist on on the iPhone, is that launcher then doing all things to person? Maybe, perhaps using, um, the screen reader or screen modification and then, you know, depending on what other sort of, I tend to call it fat wears running on Android. Um, because a certain manufacturer is that interfering with stuff?
I know there was a phone, say, about 4 or 5 years ago. I think it was one of the Optima phones. And for some odd reason, I'm told back to the screen that just would not work on that phone. But, you know, it was an Android phone. It was a good phone. It was cost effective. But it's just that the the screen reader itself wouldn't work. So at the moment, what we tend to say, at least in Australia, is you're much better off in some ways sticking sort of towards the what it's still called the sort of the mainstream Android phone. So that's the pixel in Samsung. But then again. If you wander into good old Aldi and so on, and you pick up a $160 Android phone, and at the end of the day, you know it may work beautifully and it may not, then you haven't wasted, you know, $1,000 and up, um, buying a really high end one.
And the other really cool thing about Android phones, which I think there's still in some phones and I think they're actually in the Pixel and Samsung anymore, but, uh, FM chips. And I always loved it, uh, when phones had an FM radio chip in them. Because for me, if you're in an emergency and you wanted to pick up, you know, terrestrial radio, you could still do that, whereas, you know, pixels dropped it, Samsung's dropped. And of course, the iPhones never had or been exposed to the FM, but I think it had they're in it originally, but that's sort of out long gone. So I'm currently hi, I'm looking around for the moment for a really cheap Android phone that's got an FM chip, because I think that's one of the great things that like I said, if you're an emergency, you still got access to the radio.
14:31S2
Me and my wife were actually listening to local Singapore radio on one of our cruises back when I had, I think it was a Nokia phone. So yes, I can vouch for that one. It's, uh, no internet use whatsoever. All you're doing is just listening in to the local radio and that's that's a good that's a good brand, I would suggest. I mean, the problem is, uh, that Nokia's don't tend to last that long. So if you want something that'll last you a good five years, then don't go with that. They suddenly overheat and they suddenly lose battery power. Yeah.
14:58S6
Look, it's interesting because the blind show classic two, which is the the custom blind phone that, uh, Virgin Australia sells. So in, in Android speak, it's literally running a launcher. So you're running this shell program. That's all menu driven. But that's actually I, I think I connected the phone up to something. And that said, you've connected to a knock in. I went, hey, knock, your phone's connected to my device here. And it was the blind show. Classic two. So the Blind show, classic two with the physical keyboard is actually based on a Nokia phone, and it does have an FM chip in it. So I was actually really glad to see that my old Windows Mobile phone that I had donkeys ages ago. Did I say that it had an FM chip as well?
15:36S3
Didn't we try that, um, smart phone out with Rene from quantum a couple of weeks back?
15:41S2
We certainly did. And it kind of reminded me of my old Windows Phone, because it had just as many apps on it.
15:47S3
Yeah, it reminded me of my old Nokia 6120.
15:51S6
That's true. Yeah. That's true. That one. Um, we had a look at the original, um, smart vision phone one. Cheers. I want to say about 5 or 6 years ago, and there used to be a mailing list that I know Pacific Vision used to look after. And it the phone itself was so unstable as far as applications not working and the updates breaking things and so on, we actually decided not to go back, um, to that phone again. So I know that we were approached maybe a couple of years ago and said, do you want version two of it? And I just saw so many negative things about that phone that I thought, you know, from a support point of view, a sales point of view, um, and that sort of stuff.
And given the price of the phone, we just thought, you know, we've, we've already got smart phones that you can put, you know, you can buy the blown shell classic, or you can put the synaptic software, which is like that talking simple menu driven interface on a standard Android phone. Um, we've got iPhones, and there's also another phone that, um, Virgin Australia is reintroducing this year, and that's called the all Tech phone. So a couple of years ago, the high tech phone, it was an Android phone and it had talkback on it. And because it's got, you know, the up and down arrows and everything else on it, it worked with talkback and the phone itself was only $199. Wow. And then and then they updated the phone and the software. The chip that we're using basically got rid of Talkback, so they had low vision, but we got contacted last year by Ollie Tech.
And then they're they're reintroducing that phone again and putting talkback back in it. So I'm assuming they've got the chip spec to support text to speech properly, which means as a blind person and just as a phone to make and receive phone calls, send SMS messages, uh, keep voice notes and that sort of general stuff that you would use a phone for, not to mention the fact it's a flip phone. So if you want to answer the phone, you open it up. If you want to, um, hang up the call, you close it. It's got a lot of benefits. And the fact it's only going to be like I'm saying this from the last time where I priced at $199, maybe slightly more if I just wanted a good backup phone. I don't need to spend horrendous amounts of money to give myself to myself. Accessibility.
18:06S2
Sort of a good phone. If you're overseas, for example, you want to put another, um, eSIM or something like that in it as well, I'm guessing.
18:12S6
Yeah, I'm pretty sure these ones can only take a physical sim. Um, so. And I think I'm just trying to think the Blind Shield classic two. It can take two SIM cards and they're basically mini sims are not nano sims. So yeah. I always say to people look better. Some manufacturers are doing AC. Some are not. It depends on a carrier that you're using. So I think we're sort of sort of roughly that transition period where you know, you've got you've got Sims on some carriers and some phones can't take a SIM. So we're still in that transition period. But the fact that we've got a lot of um, choices now is really fantastic.
18:48S2
So let's move on a little bit and talk about computers, because we had a bit of a Twitter chat about that yesterday regarding the best computer to be used. Now, I've always used a PC myself, and the main advantage that it does have over any other computer system really is the computer I use at home is exactly the same as the computer I use at work. But I mean, what are the advantages to vision impaired or blind people of, say, a mac versus a PC?
19:18S6
Yeah, this gets back into that sort of the the age old question that what's the better platform. So again, as with smartphones, it's what you use to what you use in your budget. Because we always know that, you know, Macs are a lot more expensive. And you're right, if you're using a windows computer at work, then it makes more sense for you to actually use a windows computer at home. That being said, that doesn't stop you doing vice versa. So you can always have a windows at home and a mac at work or the other way around. For me personally, the reason why I switched to the Mac was because being a windows tester and a tester of screen winners and everything else, I found it very easily to break windows. So either it wouldn't restart properly or I'd have some sort of video, uh, interruption thing going on, or there'd be a DLL library thing missing and I'd lose speech and have to wait. Somebody who decided to come home and read the screen for me.
20:14S2
That's that's not just that. That's not just this adaptive software. That's any software. Um, you're talking to someone who used to work in it for the Commonwealth Bank, so. Yes. Oh, good.
20:21S6
That makes me feel much better then. Okay, so at the end of the end of the day, was the fact that I had to wait for somebody to come home, and sometimes they would just literally just click on a dialogue box, which I used to say to them, couldn't you at least pretend it was difficult rather than going, oh yeah, I can see the problem says click, click. It's like a blast. So the thing about the Mac is that I've been now using the Mac for, uh, I want to say about nine, 18 years now. And it's probably completely I probably completely lost speech about three times in that period versus maybe several times a year with windows. And because I tend to work remotely, I always found the fact that the general operating system, because it's based on Unix, basically is a lot more stable, that I can always get my screen reader back.
And because I use, you know, iPhones and iPads and Apple Watch and the Apple TV and that sort of stuff, it's sort of more consistent these days. Part of the problem with that is, while I think it's absolutely brilliant for home use, I get very worried when people start using this stuff for education and employment because there's not that much variety in some ways on the Mac. If my voiceover, for example, the screen reader doesn't work application, at least with windows you can try maybe another software package, or you can try another screen reader. On the Mac. You don't have that flexibility.
21:44S2
It's a cool beta code, basically. So it's if beta video had never gone out of circulation, this would be what you get.
21:53S6
Yeah, that's that's right. And look at me now I still have I've got to update my windows machine to here to I've got a I've got a Surface Pro three then I've got an update. I'm getting a little little nut machine to do some more testing on. And look, you know, built in narrator has come a long way these days. Again for general home use. So, you know, people can still use the free screen reader. Nvidia non-official desktop access. Uh, the classic one, of course, for employment education is Jaws for windows. And again, the other difference between a particularly jaws and say, VoiceOver on the Mac is that you can customize Jaws with an application so if the application out of the box doesn't work that well, you can get somebody that's good at scripting to literally code every control on the screen so that it ends up talking properly. Now, there are some applications that are still hard to do that with, but with scripting you could take a, you know, an almost non interactive program that still had main keyboard access and make it, you know, very, very usable. So that's why I tend to say for particularly for windows users in the workplace, you're much safer with the windows computer.
23:02S2
Basically, it means that you need to have people around that can actually see what they're doing in case something goes wrong, though.
23:07S6
You do. Yeah. Because basically, if the things falls over, I mean, it's a little bit better these days. I guess in some ways, if you Jaws or Nvda falls over, you can still run the writer. But then again, that's also dependent on whether the sound card's still working or not, which has happened more than once on my machine. The sound cards actually not worked. Due to some software issue, or when the machine reboots, there's a file missing. So it's just sitting there, uh, waiting for you to press the enter key. Um, so, yeah, I, you know, and look, the other on the other hand, people have had windows machines and say, look, I haven't had any trouble with mine. Mine has been running since the year dot, and it's still fine. That's fantastic. But I know when we were sort of getting stuff going today, I was just saying that I literally have backups to my backups.
So here in front of you, on my on my desk, I have two Macs. I've got one for work, uh, and, and another one for home. But that home runs also backup for my work one. And then I've also got my iPhone and my iPad set up. So if I need to go into some sort of zoom or team meeting and my iPhone or my Mac doesn't work, I've still got my iPad. And if those ones don't work, I've still got my little Surface Pro, um, three device, because there's nothing worse than if you've got to go and do something now. I hate people that. Yeah, and it sounds like an excuse and it's not. But you say, well, my assistive technology on my computer is not working, and people just go and people just assume, oh, yeah, look, you're just being lazy or you haven't got ready or you didn't check or whatever else. It's like, well, no, dude, it it just didn't work. So I just like I just like, like having backups to my backups.
24:43S2
Is it better? I mean, I've recently sort of looked at, uh, my parents, in-laws computers. Is it better to pick a side, as it were, when you're looking at platforms, either go all Google or all Apple where possible.
24:58S6
Um, yeah. But yeah, what it is. But then again, this is where it gets a little bit messy because from a live vision point of view, honestly, it doesn't make any difference. So whether you go for an Android phone or an iPhone, it's not going to make that huge a difference. I mean, what good for low vision users? You want a really nice bright screen? Um, some people enjoy a bigger screen, somebody like a flip phone, all that sort of stuff. But that's all fine when it comes to people using a screen reader. So VoiceOver on the iPhone or Talkback on Android, there seems to be an historical theme that says that developers pay more attention to apps running on their iPhone, on their iPhone, rather than their counterpart on Android. So whilst the iPhone version is perfectly working for accessibility, the Android version is not. I've only come across one application that sort of has the reverse, so the Android One works perfectly with the iPhone doesn't.
But as a general rule, it's more the fact that the iPhone, app wise, uh, is going to be developed more than what the Android version is. And if particularly if you're a browser user browser supplier support on Android is still fairly poor as compared to the iPhone. But, you know, Microsoft just released the Seeing Eye app for Android, which is brilliant. So we've got that, um, you know, you've got a document reader, a barcode reader, uh, a thing for telling you what's in your environment, a lie detector, all that sort of stuff. And that's actually great. So it's really great that major developers like Microsoft are also making their applications also available on Android.
26:39S2
Now let's move on to back to Microsoft because we've got a big countdown going on now, haven't we, for the next year. And that is that, uh, support for Windows 10 will be ceasing in 2025. Yeah.
26:53S6
Look, I basically I mean, that's that's true. But I mean, then again, you can still I mean, you can still run the thing. It's not like it's not the end of the world. I know I said it and then this is the other thing. I know which side of paper two is, look, if you've had a machine, a windows machine in particular, particularly a laptop, if you've had it for about, uh, 5 or 6 years, it really is time to update because the software gets updated, the operating system gets updated. Um, and things will start breaking sooner than later. So I, I tend to say to people, look, you know, if you've had your laptop for five, six, seven years, then it really is time to start looking at a new one. And that way you can futureproof yourself, because eventually you'll come across things that says, well, this version, even for windows, won't run. So for my surface three, whilst it ran the beta version of Windows 11, it won't run with the the official version of Windows 11, you know. So basically that's made that machine obsolete. It still works perfectly fine. I can still use Windows 10 on it. So I normally say to people, look, when you're updating stuff, you've got at least look at a about a five year plan just to keep up to date. Otherwise, like I just said, you're just you're just getting too much water eventually.
28:10S2
Now Microsoft have in the last couple of operating systems have um, had a way to actually update from one system to the other. But the problem is, if you've got an older machine, then it's not going to upgrade from from 10 to 11. And that's actually a. A pretty good reason as far as I'm concerned, isn't it? I mean, it's more concerned about our security.
28:30S6
Look, I think so. And the fact that, I mean, you don't I mean, the other thing I say about our machines, too, is thinking about security. You don't know how secure or private these things are now, because every time windows gets updated and other applications get updated, and antivirus and malware and everything else gets updated, unless you are a very good computer person, or you've taken your machine to the shop and get scanned properly, you don't know what sort of horrible backdoors and software things are being opened on your machine, and what ports people are accessing on your machine, or that sort of stuff. So security and privacy, these I mean, we always think about, you know, mobile phones and Android and iPhone, but the main computer that we probably mostly still use all the time for work is our desktop or laptop. And when you're considering that a lot of the time you're doing things like online shopping, you're doing your stocks, uh, you're doing your banking, that's a lot of passwords and account numbers and everything else you're putting into your machine. And particularly if you've got some software that's reading your keyboard input or basically dumping what's on your screen to another system, then it can be very dangerous.
29:40S2
Well, yes. I mean, if something does get hacked at your workplace, then your personal details are gone as well. Exactly. Yeah. I tend to use the Google password manager from nowadays. That's sort of generates a strong password. The only problem there is that, uh, I've got I still have an old style, uh, gmail, uh, password that I can remember. Do you have any other suggestions? Anything that would work better?
30:02S6
No, uh, not at the moment. And I also tend what I tend to do is I use an application I've used for a long time called keeper, which runs on my Mac or my iPhone. So when that system comes up with the strong password, I also then copy it down onto this, um, other application. So and that applications like got a 64 key, um, password on it, 64 letter combination, which is basically lots of nonsense words and everything else that I've memorized. And that works really well. So when I come up to work and I think, oh God, I've just changed my network password, I know I've already automatically updated myself because I remember a couple of years ago there was all that hoo ha I think about, what was it, one password or one of the other ones that they it. I don't think the master password got hacked, but something else got hacked. So there was a bit of worry about that.
But I tend to, uh, uh, I tend to use this other one and I get also get notified if a similar, it's either a similar password or my own password has been hacked somewhere in the universe. So you get told, you know, breach. Breach has notified you that this password may have been compromised, and you think, oh, well, I'll just I'll just change it. But I, I've learned my lesson about, you know, using the strong password and then not writing it down anyway, because unless I'm using my Mac with my touch ID or my face ID on my iPhone, I can't remember what the password is. So, um, so that's that's always a problem. And I don't use one password or anything else. So I just thought, oh, well, I've been using this other one for the last, what is it, ten years or so. So I just keep using it.
31:39S2
Well. David Woodbridge, thank you for having a chat with us. It's been really enlightening. And, we hopefully we'll catch up with you again sometime later this year or next year.
31:48S6
That sounds good. Yeah, it'd be good to talk about AI and all its interesting applications and maybe even the Vision Pro when it comes to Australia this year.
31:55S2
Oh, well. Yes, definitely. All right, that's a wrap for the week. A big thank you to David Woodbridge.
32:05S3
And we'll be back next week with a look at the blind kitchen and cooking without scales.
32:12S2
Between now and then. Please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar. Lizzie, what's our email address again?
32:27S3
Studio one at Vision Australia-dot-org. That's Studio1@visionaustralia.org.
32:33S2
Bye for now.
32:34S1
Virgin Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
