Up up and away

00:32

S1 (Speaker 1)

This is Studio one on Vision Australia Radio.

00:42

S2

Hello, I'm Sam.

S3

And I'm Lizzie.

S2

And this is Studio one, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on a Vision Australia Radio.

S3

On this week's show...

S2

We spread our wings and once more go travelling. What is it like to travel when you can't see? Are there any tricks to the trade.

S3

And why bother anyway if you can't even see?

S2

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio one or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.

S3

You can email us at Studio one at Vision Australia Walk.

S2

That's Studio one at Vision australia.org. Welcome to this week's show. Welcome back, Lizzy.

01:29

S3

Thank you. I have to ask, Sam, why are we in the airport?

S2

Well, we're doing a thing on travel. We can get to experience all the wonderful atmosphere and all that sort of stuff. Tell you what. Afterwards, I'll buy you a beer and. No, I won't. It's too expensive. Why are we at an airport? Anyway, what we are covering this week is more Vox pops. Thank you, Lizzy, for getting hold of them for us. Where we tackle. Well, what is it like to have a vision impairment or be blind and well, spread your wings and travel overseas. Who's the first person we're talking to here? I seem to see we have...

S3

Corey That's right. We have Corey again. Because some people are mucking around on the flight.

S4

To go from Heathrow to Dubai. My plane was two hours late, so I missed the flight from Dubai to Adelaide, so I had to stay in the airport hotel in Dubai overnight, which was quite a challenging but interesting experience. Interesting in the fact that the people spoke very little English. So for them to understand what my needs were and for me to understand what they could and couldn't do for me was quite challenging.

S3

But were they happy to provide you with assistance?

S4

Yeah, definitely. Okay. It was just a case of getting them to. For instance, I wanted a cup of tea with my lunch and they said, Oh, we don't do cups of tea with lunch, you know? And only because I hadn't actually scanned the room to see that there was there was already tea coffee facilities in the room. And so once I actually established that, I then apologised to them, but they weren't more than helpful. I would have to say that once they understood what I needed and once I understood what they were trying to tell me, because I was certainly very, very helpful.

S2

So, I mean, have you done much international travel?

S3

I have. I actually travelled with family to Vietnam in late 2013, early 2014. We stayed in Ho Chi Minh City, though, so we didn't explore too much of the rural surroundings. We did do a few things, but I also travelled to Singapore and Hong Kong a couple of years later with some other family and we did all of the theme parks and the tourist attractions and but most of the travel I've done has been interstate and within South Australia.

04:12

S2

The interesting thing about going to another country is that they treat disability quite differently in other countries. In fact, I mean, one of the big things of it, the Seoul Paralympics, for example, was that the South Koreans embraced the Paralympics more than the Olympics because they wanted to educate their population on how to treat people with a disability, that we weren't just people to be or set in a backyard somewhere and and ignored, but that we were capable of actually doing things. So I mean you do find in some other countries it hasn't quite filtered down. I mean, have you noticed that in particular?

S3

Yes. When I went to Vietnam, the situation was that my grandfather was working there. He worked for a big company and he's a machine technician. And he introduced me to a lot of his work colleagues and friends, and they had no idea about how to interact with a blind person or that a blind person could even do the things that I could do. So it was quite interesting experience trying to educate them in a way that they would understand. And because they didn't have the best grasp of the English vocabulary either, it was very much about just doing things and showing them how things are done with me.

S2

I think often also, yes, it's that language divide that is difficult as well. So it takes something that is alien to them to start out with and then adding a foreign language to it. So in the case of your friend here, when she'd asked, you know, can she have some tea? And they said, oh, there's tea over there, How do we explain that? Oh, no, it's just too hard.

S3

You can't. Yes. And because she hadn't scanned the facilities, as she said, she didn't see that tea and coffee could be made any time. And I think because of the the language divide, they didn't know how to explain that. So they just they didn't maybe I'm not sure I had that that problem in Vietnam when navigating the footpaths and streets with one of our friends there and she had no idea how to guide me or what to say just because she didn't know the words.

S2

Indeed, indeed. And it's I wouldn't call it the joy of traveling overseas, but it's also the education of traveling overseas. I mean, if you want things to stay the same, why go overseas?

S3

Yeah, that's it. And you know, I like the different experiences and I don't mind educating people, especially if they're willing to learn like the people in Vietnam were.

S2

Let's listen to a bit more of your friend.

S4

I want to travel internationally twice. One of the things I do in Dubai when you get to Dubai Airport is they put you in a wheelchair. Now, I know a lot of blind people would actually look up at that and complain about that. But I was actually quite grateful, one, because it was a lot easier for them. And secondly, the airport's a huge airport. It's the biggest airport in the world and it would have been far too long distance from it. We'd be able to walk because it just, you know, it took quite some time to get from. Well, when my plane dropped me off, we had to catch a special bus ride around to the terminal and then go through the terminal to a different gate, go on the train that took you from gate to gate. And so it was quite I was quite happy for them to push me in a wheelchair then for me to try and teach them how to guide me and have them guiding me through such a busy and big airport.

S2

How would you respond if someone offered you to a wheelchair?

S4

I think, like...

S3

Corey, I would probably take that opportunity. I think it depends on the airport. So. Australian airports by Sydney are usually pretty good. I can sort of follow the person and get a good orientation, but if it's a really big space and there's lots of people around and the noise is very disorientating, then I don't think I would have any issues in accepting that sort of assistance.

S2

I think, I mean, a lot of us, especially if we're visually impaired and not and not cane users, don't like the idea of actually looking disabled. The the white cane is that thing that we can just sort of fold away and all of a sudden we don't call attention to ourselves. So it is an interesting one there. I mean, and this pops up more than once in the conversations we've had. There is being offered a wheelchair because it's just simpler to plonk someone in a chair and push them through the airport there.

S3

Well, that's the thing. And when I travelled, I didn't have Lacey, my seeing eye dog. I was quite cane user and I've never been a great white cane user and it's always been quite anxiety provoking for me to be in an open space like an airport. If I had Lacy, I think it would be a different story. I think then I would just allow her to guide me and follow the person. And then I would I might be less accepting of a wheelchair, but I can understand both sides of this argument, I think.

09:10

S2

What's the biggest airport you've been to?

S3

Oh, I think Sydney. Um. Or possibly, maybe Singapore. I actually don't know. I haven't been to anywhere massive, like Dubai or Heathrow or anywhere like that. Yeah, I definitely think Sydney was the most intimidating for me.

S2

Compared to Heathrow or to LAX, for example. Sydney and Changi are just delights to get around, I've got to say. So yes, it gets a lot more difficult the bigger you get. And unless you've actually been to these airports, you don't understand the sheer scale of things. I mean, Heathrow itself has got multiple terminals, which you can only access through a bus.

S3

Yeah, I understand that. And the fact that I had to my advantage was that I travelled with family when I went overseas. I wasn't by myself. The only times I've ever travelled by myself were interstate. And obviously then there's no language barrier. And you know, the the staff are educated on how to assist people with different disabilities. So I've not had too many issues with getting around airports.

S2

As early enough. Sometimes they're not. And we've had a few stories like that and I think we are going to be covering that later on in next year or thereabouts. So, yes, watch this space. Anyway, let's keep on talking to Corey.

S5

Yes, I went from Adelaide to...

S4

Queensland three times.

10:35

S3

Did you go by plane? Yes.

S4

I've also been to Melbourne on the train as well with the guide dog.

S3

And did you find that having a guide dog impacted on your travel or were they happy to provide you with assistance?

S4

I'm just trying to think whether I had any problems. No, look, really, apart from, you know, I tell you, no, please don't pack the dog or our security was interesting because, of course, you couldn't go through the X-ray thing that you walk through. So they would have to pat me down. Then they'd have to pack the dog and move. She thought that they were playing with her, but it was...

S3

Yes.

S2

Going through airport security with a guide dog. I the most trouble I've encountered was we were going through Honolulu Airport with a cane user and Phil had his white cane folded up in his back pocket and they thought it was nunchucks, so he got strip searched.

S3

Oh, that's hilarious.

S2

Do they pet the dog down? What? How do they get around that kind of thing?

S3

I must admit, I don't know, because, again, I haven't travelled on a plane with Laci. We have travelled interstate together, but it was by car. So I don't know the answer to this question, but I might just try and find out before she retires.

S2

I mean, the interesting thing is and I don't know if it's still the case now, but if you travel with a guide dog, the Qantas and Ansett, this is how long ago as it was that I knew about this used to give the guide dog user first class, well business class, so you could have enough room for the dog to sit at your feet.

S3

I have heard stories like that from people that I know that have travelled with the assistance dogs way back. I don't know if that's the case now, though. Like I said, I would like to try it out. I would like to fly interstate with Lacey just so I can experience what that's like because I haven't done it yet.

S2

But anyway, let's continue.

S4

I think the main difficulty I had. Strangely enough, was I have a slightly stylised, which is hand frame and stylised Braille hand from the stylus.

And I took my...

S4

Stylus away because I said it's a sharp instrument and I didn't have checking luggage. I only had carry on. And I said to them, Well, that's a bit difficult because that would be my pen, you know, you'd be taking my pen away from me. I think that was that was probably the most difficulty that I had.

S2

That is an interesting one, isn't it? I mean, it's a it's a sharp instrument. So strictly speaking, someone should not be allowed to take that on. I mean, it could be used to hijack a plane, but how can you justify taking away someone's communications?

S6

I don't.

S3

No. I think there needs to be some sort of guidelines put in place. But I do remember travelling to Queensland with my family in high school and trying to take my Braille note through the the check in and getting all these questions of is it a computer, what is it? Can we check inside it? And no, you can't pull it apart. And I don't know, I think there needs to be some sort of education about blind people need certain things. But how do you do that in a way that isn't going to take up too much time or money to do?

S2

It really comes down to legislation. So so an old style stylist, for example, I think is fairly cut and dried. It's a sharp piece of of kit could could be potentially dangerous. And I think you'd be struggling trying to justify taking a Perkins Brailler with you as well, because it's just a tad old fashioned. Yeah.

14:16

S3

I mean, nobody needs to take a Perkins. With the advent of electronic technology. Perkins Braille have become obsolete, sort of.

S2

And so the way I see it really is so Braille night or something like that. Yes, it's a laptop computer. It's a tablet. It's something similar to that. And basically that just needs to be brought in in the same legislation that covers that kind of thing. And yes, you can't take away someone's ability to communicate. And especially if you've got someone who's blind and deaf as well, because that's their primary way of actually talking to somebody.

S3

Yeah, that's right.

S4

A guy that was helping One of the ground crew said to me he was actually he must have been having a bad day because he certainly took it out on me and said to me, Why didn't you declare anything? I said, Well, I'm totally blind. Your crew are not allowed to help me like the plane crew, the attendants, then the ladder filling the forms for me. So what was I supposed to do? I think that was that was the main issue, I think is filling out the immigration forms coming back into Australia.

S7

We have.

S2

Next up, Franca. Now what do we know about Franka?

15:32

S3

Franka is a great friend of mine. We attend a lot of walking groups and travel groups together. She's done quite a remarkable amount of traveling and I actually talked to her while on a bus travelling during one of our Wednesday adventures. So this ought to be very interesting.

S4

When I was travelling with my ex-husband, he did most of the cooking. The first holiday I actually booked for myself was for my 40th birthday, where we went to Hong Kong, and then I had better vision. But since then I've booked holidays online and it's been quite easy because I can use the iPhone and use the accessibility features so I can read it quite well because I still have some central vision. Yeah, with the tours when I took the tours, I always mention that I need assistance. The same with when I book overseas flights. I always say I need assistance, and even if I'm in a situation where I think I can do this, at least that's a backup plan and they will.

S8

Have some info show up. It'll be flagged up on their system that I need assistance. I didn't need a wheelchair in Los Angeles airport. I was grateful for the fact that they took me on a minibus from one terminal to another because LA is like a mini city. So yeah, that would have been difficult to navigate otherwise.

S2

How have you managed to navigate the booking systems at all yourself to book things for yourself?

S3

Yes. So Webjet and other websites are pretty accessible. I do a lot of it on my phone or my iPad and voiceover works pretty well with those sites. Things like Kayak, the newer travelling sites I've looked at, but it doesn't seem to be too accessible for me. But like frankly, my experience is that usually other people have booked the accommodation or the flights, but I have had to do it a few times myself and had no trouble doing so. Yes.

S2

So initially when I was doing a lot of travelling, it was all somebody else doing the handling, the arrangements and stuff like that. And it was quite sort of difficult to imagine doing them yourself. And so initially when I was venturing out on my own, I would go to a travel agent and things like that. But thanks to the internet, it's got a lot easier. It's so, you know, there are applications out there which make things a lot easier to do things. I mean, it's so yes, you've got things like your webjet, but I mean, I've also what I tend to do with Webjet, I've got to admit, is we'll look and see what's available and then go and book the fares on a cheaper platform. Yes. And the other question is, do you declare that you have a disability or not? And I think the answer to that one is if you can get away with not looking disabled and it doesn't cause any troubles, then it's up to you.

S3

Yeah, I agree. For someone such as myself who is totally blind, I definitely would disclose that information because there is a possibility that if I don't, I'm going to miss my flight or end up in a completely wrong place or whatever might happen. But for someone whose vision impairment isn't so obvious or doesn't impact them in such a major way, I think that's just up to their discretion and what they feel comfortable with doing.

S2

And there's nothing like having the attention when someone says if you've got special needs, Oh, look at me, I can get up there first.

S3

Oh yeah, that's the bonus. You mean you get special treatment, you get on the plane first. People are more courteous. It's great. It's sort of the...

S2

Flipside, of course, is if you are a little bit late and yes, you go past the final boarding thing and then you have your name called out all across the airport.

S3

Yes, that happened to me once. And oh, it was so embarrassing.

S2

Don't worry that that glare that people give you as you're walking on the plane is admiration. It's not.

S3

I can't see it.

S6

Exactly.

19:35

S9

All right. Let's keep on going.

S8

As far as the tours go, like the tours are mainly being on cruise ships. And because I said I needed assistance because once I walked down the stairs with everyone else and I can do stairs, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's just that people were pushing into me. They didn't realise that I was visually impaired because they couldn't see my white cane in front of me and I can't walk quickly. I need to judge the surrounding things before I walk. So I then asked if I could go down the lifts. I said I couldn't walk stairs just so that I could go down the lifts rather than use the stairs. But what they also did was preserve the front seats of the bus for me, which I didn't really need. But I was grateful that I didn't have to walk down the bus and try to find an empty seat. Because sometimes when people wear dark clothes and it's a dark seat, they kind of blend in. And I've almost sat on people's laps. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's conferencing.

S2

But women, I've not had that same issue. I think my color vision is a bit better. But I understand you've had the same problem.

S3

Yes, I do. I have been going to sit somewhere, whether it be in a bus or in a theatre, and accidentally sat on someone because I thought the seat was empty and they didn't speak up soon enough. Strangely enough, it actually happens more with Lacy. When I'm on a bus with Lacy, I'll go to sit down somewhere and I think people are so shocked by the dog they don't say anything. Then I go to sit down and all of a sudden they sort of wake up and alert me to the fact that someone's already sitting there...

S2

Sitting on a bus, you're dreaming away, the world's going past and someone sits on you. Is that a dream or a nightmare? Let's keep on going.

S8

There was one cruise that I actually left from Port Adelaide and we went to Kangaroo Island and then Port Lincoln and then back. And my support worker could only take me up to a certain area because then it was a secure area. So someone from the ship came and took me all the way to the cabin. So they took me all through the customs, everything. I had to empty out my bottle of water and it was water, not vodka. So lucky for that. But you weren't allowed to take liquids on board? No, I'm sure I wasn't. The first person you know, wouldn't have been the first person that tried to get a vodka threw in a water bottle. But yeah, so, yeah, and that was fantastic. It was really helpful. Everyone is really helpful. And I think the key is to ask for help when you need help.

S2

Cruising. Myself and Heidi have gone on quite a number of them now. We are cruise junkies now. Have you had the pleasure?

S3

I've done it twice. And I've got to say, I don't like it. I like travelling by boat. But the whole atmosphere of the cruise ship and all of that, sort of the activities on board and getting on and off, it's too bothersome and I'm just not a fan.

S2

I think the beauty that we've found is that we can go to multiple locations. We unpack our luggage once and the only time at the time we bother about packing again is when we get off the boat again. That's been the beauty of it and everything is laid on. So you've got all your meals. That's all taken care of. And I've noticed, except on one occasion really, that yeah, the staff is usually being pretty good and will bend over backwards to look after you, especially if you do have a disability.

S3

Yes, I've had that same experience. When I went cruising I was with family, so I was always with somebody. But the stewards, the people that came to our room to make our beds and fix things up, we're always quite fascinated by my disability, especially because I cruised a lot during high school, and so I always had my Braille home workout and people would ask me questions and they were really nice about it. And I'm just not a fan of that particular mode of travel. But the people are lovely.

S2

The one occasion where which was, well, I call it really, really dodgy. I was actually working out what I'm going to have for lunch and so I was that could spotted where this particular eatery had had its menu up and I was basically what why don't you consider to be sniffing the menu I was that close to that looked like I was doing that because the writing was quite small and the cook behind the counter and going, What are you doing? What are you doing? In a very loud voice. And yes, he got a few comments from other people, but also, yes, a review that was not exactly spectacular for me.

S3

No, I mean, it's not too hard to tell that what's happening. I don't think I think people should be able to use a bit of common sense to figure out what's happening.

S2

I'm unfortunately, as we've said, people live in different cultures and they don't necessarily associate, you know, a disability with what we are. I mean, we are either blind or you're not blind often. So that's part of the issue. Anyway, let's continue talking to Franca.

24:56

S8

I love traveling. Yeah, I love experiencing new things. I can't always see, you know, the whole thing, but I like to take photos of it so that when I get back I can enlarge the photos and then see what I was looking at, so to speak. Where you're... yeah, you can see all the detail in plants or animals or buildings or whatever you're looking at.

S2

This is a trick. I know a few people do, actually. And as a friend of mine from Darwin and the first time she ever went to Thailand, all she did is she took her camera and it was snapping, snapping, snapping, snapping around and did not know what photos she was taking. You know what they were. But she said she had some wonderful gems. She had this one shot of a leg amputee riding a bicycle down the street and things like that. And this was in the day before digital cameras. So you actually had to wait before the films were developed.

S3

That's quite amazing because I think she probably photographed something that an ordinarily sighted person would just observe. And I think, you know, delaying that observation for when they get home can just add another perspective. But I think basically it's just picking up or photographing things that other people would normally observe in real time and then taking it home to enjoy later also.

S2

Yeah. And sometimes things that people miss as well because they're too busy looking at other things. So that's what I found the most interesting thing about that. And as I said, your friend's not the only one to do that, so it's a valid way of doing things. Now we've got these fantastic little computers that not just take photos, but take films. We can experience a lot of things.

S3

Yeah, we can. We can experience in an audio too. And I like to do this with audio recordings. I like to record different places and soundscapes and not so much conversations, but, you know, just things that are happening around me because I can enjoy them again later.

S2

Let's listen to more Franca.

S8

There weren't any activities I couldn't do but that like I booked a tour and I couldn't do it because of, you know, I couldn't see. But there would have been activities that I would have chosen if I could see which I didn't choose because I can't see if that makes sense. Yeah, like some of them were like scuba diving or, um, like in Hawaii there were a lot of underwater activities and I didn't feel confident with that. Obviously I use a white cane. There was actually one of the tours were that you actually have this lovely old fashioned scuba tank helmet. So all it was was a helmet so you could see and the air went into that, and then you walked along the bottom of the ocean to see all the reefs and all that sort of stuff out. And, you know, we joked about, oh, we could do it. We could just use the cane as well as, you know, like, you know, that would have been amazing to experience. I went in a submarine as well, so that was just like a different experience. I think some people panic as well when they see you. Like with the submarine, there was steep steps in there and it's like, Oh crap, now what do we do with her? She's here. She can't we can't turn her away cause you get on a boat to go to where the submarine is in the middle of the ocean. Then you go down. Yeah. And you could see that hesitation. But then, you know, as I make it down quite easily, it was just like a ladder. Yeah, it was fine. And then they kind of relax a bit.

S2

It's not just people that are born with a disability nowadays, though, that more and more people are getting older and this current generation of what you might call elderly. So your baby boomers, they want to still get out and about so they might not be able to see as far as they used to be able to see their limbs might not function as effectively as they used to, but they still want to go and see the fish on a glass bottomed boat or something like that.

S3

I remember too, I had an experience with the hot air balloon where they would actually put steps leading up to the basket so that the older participants could get in and out more easily.

S2

Oh, we're getting to the balloon later on as well. Don't worry. There is a reason why this episode is called Up. Up and Away are.

S8

I have done a hot air balloon trip over the Barossa and it was absolutely amazing and like I couldn't see the detail but I could see patches of colour so I knew they were buildings and the darker green were trees or the lines were vineyards. So and I took heaps of photos and then I could see the details afterwards. Yeah, but yeah, I mean it would have been lovely to have had 2020 vision and look at that, but you know, didn't stop me. I mean, the hardest thing about that is getting in and out of the basket.

S3

Well, I was on that trip, too, and I think it's really interesting to ask people these questions and see how their vision impairment or level of vision impairment differs from person to person and how that impacts their experience differently as well.

S8

And the the lighter for the hot air balloon was quite loud as well.

S3

It was not standing right next to it.

S8

Yeah. And it was a sound that you're not familiar with, so you probably be wondering what it was and are you safe?

S3

Yeah, I think I was.

S4

Just going to burst into flames.

S2

So describe what it's like to be soaring above the world without an engine.

S6

It's quite surreal.

S3

Very surreal. So it's not as noticeable or obvious to take off as a plane or a helicopter would be. It's it's a very shaky but gradual sort of take off. And it to me, it was actually quite freaky because there was no whirring of an engine, There were no motors. There was nothing like that to indicate that this thing was being powered by anything but the natural elements. And Franco mentioned the burner that was heating up the gas within the balloon. I was actually standing right next to it and it was very loud. It was a very smooth journey. There was no turbulence and it was very peaceful.

31:39

S2

So to finish off, let's say, what is the point of travelling if you can't actually see?

S3

I think the point is to open your horizons and to experience new things. You might not be able to see the world around you, but you can hear and you can interact with it in other ways. The hot air balloon being a good example, I got to feel what it was like to travel without a powered engine or a motor and to just glide through the air peacefully, that there are always other things that you can glean from an experience other than your sight.

S2

Do you think that you're missing out on something or do you think that because you your other senses are heightened, do you think you're actually getting more out of things?

S3

I don't like to think that I'm missing out on anything because I always surround myself with other people who can explain or describe things to me. So I'm always trying to get a picture in my head. But added to that picture then are also the other senses that I've got the smell, the hearing and the touch, and I sort of put them all together to make one unique experience. I'm a glass-full kind of, I don't like to to think that I'm missing out on anything.

I would rather see the positives. That is all we have.

S2

Time for this week. Thank you, Lizzy, for helping us out this week with Matthew off on his journey to the Arctic Circle. Looking, looking for Santa Claus. Also, we would like to thank Corey and Franca for their assistance in making the show. And thank you, of course, for listening. Next week we catch up with Vision Australia's board member and soon to be chair Bill Jolly. But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One or if you think there's something we should be talking about. You never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who's dealing with something similar. Who can we...

S6

Email?

S3

You can email Studio one at Vision australia.org.

S2

That's right. That's Studio one at Vision australia.org. You can also catch up with us on Facebook. Go to facebook.com slash RVA radio networks.

S1

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.

34:03

S5

So my last question is would you travel again?

S3

Yes, definitely. Oh, yeah, definitely.