Who'd hire these guys?

00:05 S1

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.

00:15 S2

Hello, I'm Sam...

S3

... and I'm Lizzie.

S2 

And this is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio. 

00:23 S3

On this week's show...

00:24 S2

Who would hire these guys? We've applied for a job at the Brisbane City Council.

00:28 S3

Vision Australia's Harmoni Downs and Matt Larney from the Brisbane City Council go over our job applications and we find out what it would take for an employer to consider hiring two blind radio announcers.

00:41 S2

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio 1, or if you think there is something we should be talking about... you never know. Your story and insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.

00:56 S3

You can email us at studio1@visionaustralia.org ... that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org. Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our Facebook page. Go to facebook.com slash VA Radio network.

01:11 S2

We are joined by a few special guests here. Harmoni Downs, how are you going today?

01:16 S4

I'm wonderful. It's not raining. It's not sunny. It's epic weather. That's what everyone says in Brisbane. It's great. One day it's perfect. Next... well it's true. So just so you know, down there for you guys.

01:27 S2

I understand you've brought us another playmate.

01:30 S4

I have indeed, I did.

01:32 S5

I am with Brisbane City Council. I'm a compliance and investigations manager there.

01:37 S2

All right. So what does that mean? What do you actually do?

01:39 S5

That's a really good question. I've been doing the job for 12 months, so I'm still trying to figure it out. It covers quite a bit. Council regulates a lot. There's still stuff that comes across my desk, you know, every day or not every day, but almost every day. And I'm like Wow, we do that sort of thing. So it's a really broad remit. We do a lot of development approval, compliance stuff. That's probably some of the high end stuff, character building protections, vegetation clearing. That's a big ticket item. Animal attacks, all sorts of personal appearance services, licensing, jobs that we take on for Queensland Health, food safety so that if you eat out a lot like I do, you probably don't want to get too involved in the food safety boost. But I probably check 1 or 2 of those briefs a week. Wow. Yeah.. where they've gone out and done audits and found nasty things that makes you never want to eat out again. so, yeah, it's it's quite broad, what we do at council.

02:33 S2

So I understand that Brisbane City Council is actually rather different to a lot of the other councils around Australia in that the city of Brisbane encompasses suburbs and everything like that. You don't necessarily have shire councils or local government in the same way as, for example, we do in Adelaide, where the City of Adelaide is its own council, and then we all live in different council areas. So the Brisbane City Council is just the one big thing, isn't it?

02:57 S5

It is. So it's the biggest local government in Australia by far - sort of, you know, population-wise and size-wise and everything. It's the second biggest, they tell me now, in the southern hemisphere as well. So I can't remember the figures just off the top of my head. But we, you know, it's a $4 billion a year budget or thereabouts, I think. Brisbane City Council's budget, it's over 10,000 employees. And yeah, we cover a lot of ground. My guys are out and about between, you know, as far as the Pine Rivers north down to Logan, south and west, out to 17 Mile Rocks, out that way sort of thing. So it's it's a big patch of turf.

03:37 S2

So this week's show, we are applying for a job basically. And hence we've asked a employment expert... Harmoni, tell us a little bit about yourself. 

03:46 S4

Thanks, Adam. I've been working with Vision Australia in employment services for about a year. So what that means is that we work with... participants in terms of they're looking for a job base [?obeys], or to getting a job and keeping them within a job, or ongoing support. So once they get to 52 weeks, they can exit from services with us. Some of those services cover mentoring through the NDIS, or people can get involved with employment through Services Australia and sign up with us as a disability employment service provider. We also work with apprenticeships, tapes and other employers. In terms of canvassing or connecting with different agencies. We reverse market our community as well as grow capacity for employers as well. 

So we do a lot. We run a job club program, so it's not just a once a fortnight appointment generally that we service participants through the NDIS or through death. And that's a fun skills capacity building program. We visited Brisbane City Council as well. We've done mock interviews. Matt has participated in those sessions with us as well. Sometimes we do learning lunches together. Sometimes we go out to expos. It just depends in terms of like what people want to do. So really always open to ideas and helping people connect to different industries that they might be interested in or are really keen to apply for that particular job. So yeah, it's quite broad.

05:20 S2

What got you started in this? I mean, what made you decide, I'm going to help people find work?

05:26 S4

I really like mentoring people, and I really like people connecting to what they want to do in their life. And I think it's my superpower, actually. I'm really good at it. I really good at connecting people to themselves. So, you know, what is their purpose? What value do they want to get in their job and helping them build their confidence, helping them learn how to network? I just love that. But my background is more arts-focussed. So if you guys have worked in the arts or this is kind of the arts, conducting radio interviews and all that communications, but you wear a lot of different hats and you do a lot of different tasks, and you span across so many different areas that you're like, Oh my God, I do compliance, I did governance, I did marketing plans, I did. Oh my God. I work with police. 

And you know, there's such a broad range of different things that, you know, if you have a curious mind like me, that you tend to not say no very often and then get yourself out into some really fun, interesting events and stuff. So I felt like from having that sort of really diverse background, from running festivals to coordinating stuff and arts programs to, oh, God... helping artists with grants, just connecting to lots of different people that did lots of different things. And I felt that all that experience had led me into doing employment. So, currently I'm doing Career Visions program, which is just finishing, and those guys are in their host placements. Go Samsung, Serena, Sarah, Brandon and Karl, and they're out in different places in different organisations. You know, getting out there and doing some good stuff. So yeah, it's a bit more about me.

06:59 S2

Have you had much experience previously in the disability sector?

07:02 S4

Yeah... I've worked in the disability sector for 15 years across lots of different areas sport and rec, schools, peak arts, national bodies, lots of consultation work for different organisations far out. Lots of NDIS supports, lots of program building as well. So yeah. Heaps.

07:24 S2

Well how about we get started. Let's see if we have done well in applying for this job. So dear listener, we applied for the the role of... what was it?

07:37 S3

Freedom of Information Officer. 

07:39 S2

Freedom of Information Officer. Now, I didn't just put a pin in there. I sort of did look through the entire website and thought, there's nothing else that would probably suit us as much as this. So what do the pair of you think of that choice of job for, say, two... well, one totally blind person and one nearly blind person, I think.

08:01 S4

From, from my perspective... and looking at the job map might have a different take on this, but because it is a lot of information, you're looking at different acts and you're researching databases, online portals, information... I think in terms of just to match using assistive technology, I don't see a problem with that. Matt.

08:21 S5

I agree, because I've been at Birmingham City Council before and I had a very strong and very supportive of getting people with disabilities into the... working environment. The program that I've got to participant placement for at the moment is the Door Program.

08:36 S4

The Door Program is a disability action at work program.

08:39 S5

Yeah. So this is our second time around, and we've had two people come through our team with that sort of thing. And it's a 16 week program where we have them come in and work with us and do all sorts of students should work and come out into the field and do our ups and things like that. So counsellors are very, very supportive of that sort of thing. And, you know, looking at the position description and the key selection criteria... this one, I wouldn't, wouldn't say that, you know, a vision impaired person is precluded at all.

09:05 S3

Looks like we need to move to Queensland, Sam.

09:07 S2

Yes, I know one comment is that your website is actually really quite accessible. I mean, what do you think about that, Lizzie?

09:13 S3

I was able to access it both on my phone and my computer. I first had a look at it on my phone. I opened up the email with the link and I thought, Oh, great. VoiceOver reads this really well. And then I think a couple of days later I when compiling the information for this episode, I checked it out on my computer and I was also very impressed with the accessibility of it. Some of the local government websites here in Adelaide, and I'm sure can be said for other states as well, aren't as accessible, sadly. But Brisbane City Council's was very easy to navigate.

09:49 S2

So yes. Tick tick. Tick tick tick tick of approval.

09:52 S3

Yeah.

09:53 S5

I think you can show that website to me because I really struggle getting around our websites, to be honest. Oh wow.

09:58 S2

Okay. So it's more accessible for us than it is for fully sighted person. That's saying something, saying something. But anyway, so we submitted both a cover letter and our resumes, and one of the reasons why we had the idea for this episode is because we'd previously submitted our resumes to the Community Broadcasting Association when we were having our funding renewed. And I sort of thought to myself, looks like I'm applying for a completely different job because it was, and it's the first time they've ever asked for this sort of thing. So I thought, what are some of the problems that people do have when they're applying for work? So this is what gave me that idea. So we'll start with the cover letter. What did you think of our cover letters?

10:40 S4

Can I go first? I'll go first. So a couple of bits and pieces. You don't need to put your address in there. Just put your suburb. I mean, sure, it's great to, you know, we're in an age where there's... it's very easy to access people's information in all sorts of things. So just a suburb is enough. I mean, these are really simple little tips and tricks. I think you're very to the point. So for all the listeners out here, it's really hard for me to talk about something that I'm not reading. So... and that you guys don't have access to. But, To whom it may concern, are you started off... well, you've actually said write to Information and Privacy officer. You put the date at the top. 

I would have actually put, tried to find out who the hiring manager was and put their name in there. Usually in these... position descriptions, they will always have someone that you contact. And having their name on your cover letter means that you've actually done your due diligence and you've contacted them and you know who they are. So you're continuously building that rapport. It's really important when you're going for a new job, or even just finding out about new industry, that you keep those contacts warm. So, I definitely would have found out who the person that might be potentially giving you this awesome job so you can move to Queensland. I would have put their name in.

11:58 S2

Dear listener, I will say from the top here that I may have sabotaged my own application a little bit and deliberately made some mistakes there. But yes, I did actually think what was the most pompous way of introducing a letter. So I definitely succeeded in that.

12:19 S4

So the line of, as someone who has worked in customer services at state and federal levels of government, which would have been great if you had a fleshed out those roles and said why you're suitable for this particular role, but instead you went, It could be said that I'm made for this job. That's what I thought.

12:38 S2

So is that a little, little arrogant then? Do you think so? I might be sort of putting a little too much sauce on there.

12:44 S5

So if you can't be arrogant in a job application, I don't know where you can. The thing is that you've got to back it up. And so a cover letter can be quite broad and everything like that for sure. But like Harmoni said, you know, you've worked in customer service and state federal government and and that's it. Like, you really need to get get some flesh on the bone for that. Does that make sense?

13:03 S2

I think it does make sense. So be precise. So if you have that experience always make sure that you specify it. What happens if, like for example, in my case some of these jobs... are over 20 years old. I mean, so yes, I've had the experience, but it was a long time ago. And is it worth mentioning that, or do we still prefer to look at, say... ten years back? 

13:27 S4

Okay. So in in I think it's okay if you can draw up, you can... it's like a story. You're building a story. And with the dot points that you had, I don't mind the 20 year job if there are relevant skills and experience that you had in that job that you're threading through to current day, that builds a story, that you're matching the selection criteria... well, it might not be all of them, but if you can try in your resume to try and find those bits and pieces that will find your selection criteria, because it is about that transferable skill as much as possible. So I don't care about how long you know your work history is and where bits and pieces, but as long as you can match that selection criteria, the desirable or essential really as much as possible, then yeah, go for it.

14:15 S2

So let's go move on to to Lizzie. So...

14:19 S3

Oh, do we have to?

14:19 S2

I did, I liked it a lot. I mean it looked highly original.

14:24 S3

It was not original. I actually used AI software to... come up with the contents of that letter because I had no idea what to write. Sorry, guys. Sorry.

14:36 S5

We're just having a conversation about using AI for cover letters, and I'm dead set against it. How many said it was fine? So we've got two different types, I think.

14:43 S4

You don't just stop there, like you don't just go ChatGPT and that's it and it'll straight away you disagree?

14:50 S3

Yeah, I mean... I did proofread it, I will say because I...  have been known to use ChatGPT a little bit to make things sound a little bit more professional if I can't think of the right words. But I've always been one to go back and proofread and insert things that I think need to be inserted, or take out bits that just don't sound like me. But for the purposes of this exercise, yes, I did just ChatGPT all of it.

15:20 S4

There's definitely... there's some ways to use ChatGPT...  like a I would have just fed two resumes through it with a prompt saying, can you tailor my resume? Flesh of my... flesh out the duties of my resume to a right to information role and see what you can come up with, and then edit it accordingly. The issue with ChatGPT is that it has a lot of words that are quite standard, like I spearheaded this or I did that, or it'll just spit out some stuff that is completely not even related to your resume or the job itself. So you have to treat it like the naughty sibling that, you know, it's going to test the boundaries. And if you don't rein it in, it's you're going to submit something that's completely not what you intended to. So yeah.

16:05 S5

Oh, for sure. I think when I'm writing these letters and you're getting your resumes and submitting them, everything just sort of have an I've just done a recruitment in my team. So this is very topical for me at the moment. So I had two positions. We had 75 applications that came in... sort of, the terrible nature of this application too, is reading 75 applications. Right. And, you know, they can get very dry very quickly if you're seeing the same regurgitated ChatGPT phrasing and jargon, which is is pretty common and can definitely tend to pick it. You want to be able to submit something that speaks to you as a person and makes you stand out. 

16:42 S2

One of the problems that I think, employers have is the job seeker sort of situation, where people are required to apply for a certain amount of jobs per week to get their funding. And so they will simply go apply, apply, apply, apply, apply, and not necessarily go for the jobs that they're qualified for either. I mean, it's a luxury that blind and vision impaired people do have is where we don't have that requirement. But is that a genuine problem? Is sifting through the people that really don't want to want this job, don't really have... haven't really got the qualifications for it?

17:20 S5

Well, yeah. You know, in any of your applications you're going to have your key selection criteria. And those are the must-haves. Mm. So for the one that you were applying for here that I just sort of highlighted a couple of things because they're very specific. So it says strong knowledge and proven experience of the Right to Information Act was one, and a proven ability and experience of communicating with all levels of staff, customers, including senior management and councillors. Those are the sort of must-haves. So if you're not hitting those... notes in your cover letter and your application and your resumé, then you're not making it past the first hurdle. I'm being perfectly honest here, because I have to start a recruitment and... you've kind of got to be fairly straight when you're doing these. Does that make sense?

18:00 S2

That makes sense. I mean, you're... in theory, you're going to be working with this person. So you need to know that they are, one, capable of doing it, and two, serious about what they're doing. Yeah.

18:09 S4

Yeah, absolutely. and... again, thinking if you don't have those, you know, you really love the job you have close to it... you know, you understand government legislation in a different context.

18:25 S6

Specifically the...

18:25 S4

Awesome. There were definite... areas where you could have added in a lot of the sort of compliance, legislative governance that you use in terms of the radio space or really tried to sort of draw it because you've got the strong communication, but that wasn't evidenced in your resume. So you could have really gone to town a little bit more in terms of that. And then both of you said something like, thinking about your key issues, affecting, you know, the blind and low vision community, but how those issues relating to those broader, you know, the broader context of... what we're operating in. So I felt like this job particularly was very governance-focussed and heavy, but it needed to sort of marry up a little bit more in both the cover letter and resume. Yeah.

19:12 S2

And also, I presume this would be helped out a lot if you do actually contact the hiring manager as well and have a chat with them about the job in particular, that you can actually sort of nut a few of these things out 100%.

19:25 S5

Right. You've always got to make that call. Would be my advice to anyone applying for a job, there's a few questions that you really need to ask. Like, you know, is it a newly created position or is there is there somebody sitting in it already? Those sorts of questions are really, really important. And we'll give you an idea of, you know, what success you might... get from this process.

19:43 S3

So I've got a question related to the cover letter, because you're saying that, you know, there's certain things that need to be fleshed out, but obviously you don't want to receive a ten page essay on these sorts of things. So what is the appropriate length for a cover letter?

20:01 S5

Usually that will tell you what they like. And especially in government jobs they will say a two page cover letter or a one page cover letter. A lot of federal government jobs are like 400 words or 800 words, things like that. So it's really important to read the.... application material when you're doing this stuff. Because again, if I'm doing a recruitment, it's a two page cover letter and somebody sends me a three page one, I'm not looking at it. Out. I just don't have the time. You know what I mean? But...

20:28 S3

For sure. So just definitely make sure that you read all the instructions on the site regarding what they're looking for.

20:35 S2

But anyway, let's move on to our fantastic resumes. So I've got this thing in front of me now. What's it? Oh, I'm not quite 100 pages. Was my CV just a tad... long?

20:51 S5

I would say the general rule with the resume is five pages. Again, taking into account the person who's reading at the other side, on the other side of this, when I received 75 or 100 or 200 applications, anything over five pages, you know, you're probably it's not going to sink in anyway, so to speak. And, you know, Harmoni said before about, you know, going back to how far back you go in your work experience. Now, my my experience and, you know, the way I applied for jobs and everything in five years, maybe ten years max. Unless there's something like, you know, you invented the better mousetrap or something prior to that? It really is important to keep it sort of focused on your most recent achievements, but from my point of view...

21:32 S2

What about things like volunteer commitments and things like that? I mean, do you include everything like I sort of did, or do you tailor things more to things that are applicable for the job in question?

21:44 S5

Definitely, tailor for the job in question. So I don't have a stock standard resume sort of thing. I've got the bones of one. But every job that I've ever applied for, you tailor that to fit the job. So there's some stuff in there that's going to be relevant and there's some stuff that isn't. And I think it's really important that you do that.

22:01 S3

What about for the person such as myself? This is actually my first paid job. So I've only held voluntary positions beforehand. Does that still qualify me as a suitable applicant? And do I put all my voluntary experience on the resume in that case? 

22:19 S5

Yeah, Lizzie, it's all about transferable skills. And in this space, you're probably going to hear that a lot. So if you've got skills that match up to the criteria from a volunteer role, they're definitely put them in there. But you've just got to like make them fit into the job that you're applying for with Harmony's cohort. Yeah, that, I've I've done some mock interviews with, I sort of told them about the star method. So that's Situation Task Action Result. So anything that you put in a cover letter or if you do make it to the interview, you've got to really frame it that way. So this is the situation I was faced with. This was the task at hand. This is the action I took and this is the result. 

And so, but that example can be from anywhere. It can be from volunteer work with. You've just sort of point out something to you on your resume here. And I read right through it and you've got some good experience there and everything, but then you've just got in here as your third point. Board member of Beyond Board Blindness October 2023 to present. And that's it. So I mean, that is, that sounds like an amazing example of really, really good experience there. But you haven't fleshed that out at all for it.

23:19 S3

I think the problem is that when you're on a board, you are held to certain confidentiality contracts and things like that. And I just that's the sort of thing that I'm not sure about. What is fine to say and what is not, what's okay to put on there and what might be breaching those terms. So I could have definitely gone to Beyond Blindness and found that out.

23:41 S5

I mean, anything in your day-to-day role in doing that and that sort of thing where it gets you talking about problem solving or tasks that you've completed and everything. I don't know of any organisation that wouldn't let you sell yourself from your experience sort of thing, but it would play to their internal thing. But I would suggest that you'd be fine. And, you know, just on the face of it, you know, you're a board member sort of thing. So there's management there, there's governance there. There's all sorts of experience that you could really, really flesh out from, from that one.

24:10 S4

Yeah. Agreed. I've been on a board for five years and all of the different sort of not for profit corporation act, all of that, the Associations Act, I mean, even that getting across that knowing what a constitution is, knowing how the terms of engagement, all the different levels of a constitution and how that applies to an organization and how you communicate with your membership, that you could probably find some and that can cross over with the job as well. In terms of what information or confidentiality you can release appropriately and the approval process for that. So I definitely feel that, yeah, you could expand on that. And then some of the areas within the board role, you could definitely match the selection criteria for this job.

24:54 S2

Some of the what I did include with my latest job was links to the podcast and things like that. So majority of resumes and cover letters are now read electronically. Is it worthwhile including links to, say, organisations you've worked for or anything like that?

25:12 S4

I did a cover letter recently. Not that I was trying to leave Australia, but just in terms of practicing my cover letter writing and doing interviews, it's really important for me to be current in that, and it's good practice. And so I did do a link in my cover letter to the body of work that I did for a film festival, and I also said that I loved this organisation, what they did, and I and I'd watched a lot of their films, and I was very passionate about the work and wanting to support that. And here's an example of the work that I've done, which I think could really benefit the world. I think that's fine. But again, that alignment and the value proposition that you're putting forward within your application is really important to get that right. So I would probably put that in a cover letter. Not so much your resume to be honest.

26:06 S2

Okay. I mean I've worked in this is now my my fourth career, as it were. So and often the trouble is, is you're writing a cover letter and resume in a particular way. So what you're basically saying there is every time you're applying for a new job, you rewrite your resume. So, for example, my previous technical work, I don't need to be as specific with that, I'm presuming. So I don't have to say Yes I was, you know, supporting these applications or anything like that, or I'm proficient in these operating systems. Cut those down. And what... focus on what is transferable to the new position.

26:45 S5

Yeah, yeah. If it's relevant, keep it. For sure. But, you know, if it's getting away from those key selection criteria of the job that you're applying for, then you know, it's probably not worth having it in there.

26:56 S2

From your standpoint. Harmoni, is it worthwhile... as I said, I literally included everything in my resume, including the kitchen sink. Is it worthwhile presenting, say, an employment expert like yourself with something a bit more... full like that? Just so you've got a good overview?

27:12 S4

Yeah, I definitely like people to give me the shopping list in full. Like, not just, you know, we're talking about the monthly shopping, not just a few items, you know, for dinner. I want to see all of the different things that you can, and then you can filter them out in terms of what, usually the top five of the key accountabilities I try to aim for and get as much of that... answered within your resume. I mean, at some points, yes, you've done seven points, but it also depends on how many you know, places that you've worked and their relevance to... the job that you're applying. But yeah, definitely. I think it's good to have a resume that's like your Bible that has everything that you've ever done. And, you know, Matt might not agree with this, but I sometimes run them through a ChatGPT and I go Finesse this for this particular industry, and I see what it comes out with. And then I write my cover letter or edit the resume again after that. 

And then I write the cover letter, in line with some of the things that come up through those prompts to the selection criteria. So yeah, definitely more is better if you want to work with someone like myself. Employment services... more info. And I do a goal-setting, mind-mapping thing. So one of the things that I do with clients is that we go through the whole different things, and I ask all the different questions about, So what did you do at that job? How did you find that? What what soft skills or hard skills. What did you apply? What sort of environment was it? Was it a small or large organisation? Was it far from your home? 

All those sorts of areas are really important for me to understand, so that I can find a job that's going to be really suitable not just for something that you love, but it's actually going to fit your lifestyle as well. So, you know, that also increases someone's motivation to go, oh, okay, it's not too far. Pays well. I like the people. I like the management style. You know, there's more to getting a job.. than... just rocking up to... you know, it's got to be meaningful as well. So yeah.

29:13 S2

So before we do go to today, I ask this as a pair of you, has there ever been... someone crossed your desk that you've been completely surprised about what they can and can actually do? So has have you ever seen someone get a job that you would have thought, I didn't think a blind person could do that?

29:30 S4

No. I think he, it... you can teach skill, but you can't teach will. So if someone is really across their disability-specific skills that they have the will, they're really into it. I mean, that's it. If you've got passion, you can open any door, that to me... and you can back that with the skills to development. You can learn a lot of stuff on a job. So that's I want to know that someone is... going to spend the time, having that professional development, is super passionate about what they want to do. And for me, having some education or the volunteering work or, you know, getting out there and doing and showing that you're active and showing that you're engaged. To me, that's really exciting. So I haven't found anyone that hasn't got a job or anything. So I yeah, for me, I've never had that problem. 

30:20 S5

I would agree. Like... you know, just having this conversation about your cover letter before this and where you... put in there that you were a visually impaired person about whether that was going to cover letter, in my view, is that, No, it's not...relevant as long as you're addressing the selection criteria and providing relevant experience and transferable skills, then I don't, you know, as a hiring manager, it shouldn't, it shouldn't come into the reckoning if you can do the job. So can I give you one little bit of feedback on your... resume though. Mm. Yeah. The hobbies and interests. Look, I'm ambivalent about, you know some people put them in and some people don't. If I am putting them in I'm not putting homebrewing and wine appreciation. For a government job okay. I might just leave that one off.

31:02 S2

Well thank you for the tips. This has been a very different interview, and I hope that some of our listeners have got something out of it. As I said, we may have... well, the opposite of stuffing our resumes, really. We've probably done everything wrong. We actually did talk with Harmoni beforehand. What are... your pet hates? And she had said, ChatGPT. So,  remember this argument, Lizzie, you said I am actually a pretty good writer.

31:28 S3

I am, and I actually, that is the thing - I do write quite dryly the way that ChatGPT does. That's just my personal style. I've always written like that, so it's not too different to the way I normally write, except it tends to throw out a lot more big words, which is fine.

31:49 S2

But anyway, thank you for joining us in this little exercise. Would you be keen to come and play with us again sometime in the future?

31:56 S5

Sure, yeah, that'd be fine. Thank you very much for having me.

31:59 S4

Thanks, Sam. Thanks, Lizzie.

32:00 S3

Thank you.

32:02 S2

That's a wrap for this week. Thank you to Harmoni and Matt for agreeing to play our strange game.

32:08 S3

And of course, thanks to you for listening.

32:11 S2

Next week we look into the sensation that is Blind Barbie. What does it mean to children with a vision impairment to have a toy that looks like them?

32:19 S3

And how has the rest of the community reacted?

32:23 S2

Between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.

32:36 S3

You can reach out to us via email at studio1@visionaustralia.org ... that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org. Or of course you can look us up on our socials. Just search for VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.

32:52 S2

Goodbye for now.

32:53 S1

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.