00:02
S1 (Speaker 1)
This is Studio One, on Vision Australia Radio.
S2
Hello, I'm Matthew.
S3
And I'm Sam.
S2
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio. On this week's show: "You don't look blind."
S3
Not everyone who has a vision impairment goes around waving a white stick or wheeling a dog around.
S2
And we ask What's a blind person supposed to look like anyway? As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
S3
You can email us. Studio one at Business.org. That's Studio one at Vision Australia.org - And we do welcome those emails.
S1
This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2
Hello there, Sam.
S3
Hello there, Matthew. And hello there, stranger, sitting in on our conversation.
S4
Hi, how are you doing?
S3
Hello, Lizzie. Welcome. Once more. Once, once more. It's nice to have you joining, joining our little soiree, as you might say.
S4
Oh, it's good to be back with you boys once again.
S2
Hey, Lizzie, thank you very much for all the hard work you've put into this week's show. Not only did you come up with the idea, but you also then went and interviewed some young new people who we haven't heard before and ask them the questions. Really appreciate all your hard work.
S4
Oh, thank you. It was lots of fun getting out and about in the community and asking the questions. So definitely started some interesting conversations.
02:02
S3
This sort of evolved organically, didn't it? It so I mean, it was sort of it wasn't originally originally the questions you were asking.
S4
No. So the way it came about was I was actually at a social event and somebody had said to me, You, why do you care about the way you look if you're blind? And it originally spun, we think about started thinking about questions to do with fashion. But then I remembered all of the times that I had dressed up to go to the city or go to an event and I'd be out on public transport and someone would say to me, You don't look blind. You can't be blind. You dress too well for a blind person.
S2
That's something that never happens to me. You'll be interested to hear, But people do. Until the bit where I'm caught staring at my phone a centimetre away from my face. Apparently on a good day, if I'm wearing a pair of sunglasses, people don't always spot me. What about you, Sam?
S3
Usually I sort of pass for normal. Except when I'm hungover.
S4
I don't think anybody passes for normal when they're hung over, do they?
S2
I have to say, Sam, again, unless you are doing something of that involves reading or you actually use a monocular as well sometimes, don't you? To look at street signs and the like.
S3
Yes.
S2
Yes. So unless you're doing something, you come across as I think more normal than me. But I think that's partly because you've worked on it, haven't you?
S3
I had parents and also teachers pretty much sort of drilling it into me. So, you know, when you're talking to somebody, you look at look them in the eye and yeah, you don't if you're not looking at anything in particular, don't look down at your feet or, you know, tend to just look just blindly to the distance. Looks way more normal then blindly down at your feet.
S2
What about you, Lizzie? Do you make a conscious effort in terms of your posture and the way you get about to try not to look blind?
S4
Well, it's a bit hard because I have a saying our dog. So there's always that indicator. But when I'm talking to people, I always try to position myself to face them. I try to keep my head looking in their direction, even if my eyes aren't. And yes, that I think my experience is the same as Sam's in that regard, because I also had it drilled into me by teachers and family since a very young age.
S2
Yeah, I think that's the the difference with me is that I didn't necessarily have anybody around me who was aware of that problem. I didn't really discover. I contacted us about 16 years old. First up of your interviewees, we have Steven. Lizzie. Who's Stephen? What's he about?
S4
He's my husband and the first victim of this process. Do you think that there is a stigma or stereotype surrounding blind and vision impaired people and how they dress themselves?
S5
I'm not sure about stigma, but definitely a stereotype. With society as a whole. If you don't look blind, then they sort of question if you are blind.
S4
And what does looking blind mean to society, do you think? What's their idea of a blind looking person?
S5
Well, I do believe that. I think that they feel that we have to look clumsy like we've we've messed up in some way. If you're on a bus and you're well dressed like I am. Most times. And if you're a lady in particular and you're well dressed and you have good hair and good makeup and good clothes, then you do get sort of pulled out of that category. Like she doesn't look blind. And there's always somebody that's going to, you know, come out of the shadows and question you. Oh, you don't look blind. What?
Some people can be nice about it. Some can be very nasty. Some will say, well, you don't look blind, you must be faking or some will come up and say, Well, you don't look blind. You're doing really good. I mean, how do you do your hair? How do you do your clothes? How do you know what to wear, that sort of...
S4
Thing. And do you mind when people ask you these questions if they come from a place of of actually wanting to learn, does that bother you to educate them?
S5
It does bother me because some people, myself in particular, have other issues like confidence issues going out in public and just sometimes it's just really hard to put one foot in front of the other. Now when you're on a bus or out in public and you have a perfect stranger come up to you and get in your face, and it's usually pretty aggressive with me. I don't get the ones that are very nice and they tend to make you feel guilty about yourself. And I say, Well, you don't look blind. I mean, how do you know what you're putting on? And or, you know, you're not you're not walking around like you're blind.
06:45
S4
Yeah, I must say that I've faced this stereotype myself. I think it's naturally expected or assumed that being blind or vision impaired, you can't see what you're wearing, therefore you don't care or you shouldn't care. How important is it to you to dress well when you go out in public?
S5
Well, I'm the original transgender, so I giggle on the road from an early age. I always used to go up shopping with mum and there and I'd pick out the most ridiculous looking clothes, but I'd managed to make a good outfit come together. Now, these days I'm particularly old fashioned and I like to buy my clothes from salvos or op shops because you get a chance to buy something cool from the 60s, 70s and 80s, even the 90s.
Whereas if you buy clothes nowadays from, you know, Target or any of those places or even just jeans or, you know, any clothing store in particular or not in particular important, but the latest clothes are absolutely terrible and horrendous looking. And they look that way and they feel that way. Whereas like if you go and buy second hand clothes, you get, you know, a chance to buy something that's made in Australia or America, and it looks that way. It looks good, looks well put together.
S4
So does it make you feel more confident to know that you look presentable and well dressed out in public?
S5
Well, confidence is key. And if you if you are dressed very well, then you feel like that. And if you're dressed poorly and sometimes I've been I've gone out in public wearing work clothes. I've just mowed a lawn or something like that. Yes. Blind people can mowing lawns. And if I feel dirty when I've gone out or like not clean or not well dressed, I second guess myself. And I go, Oh, crikey, maybe I should have gotten better dress before I went out.
But if you if you got good Cologne on, if you've got a good hat on shoes and whatnot, and if you dress well and you groom your beard and that you walk out with your head and held high and you know, you feel like a million bucks, we're like...
S2
You did well there. Lizzy Interesting that he mentions the notion of smell. What you smell like is, is part of how you present yourself. What do you smell like?
S3
Usually some sort of deodorant. That's basically the general idea. Unless. Yes, I've been forgetful.
S2
What about you, Lizzie? Do you take any conscious effort about how you smell? Do you make any decisions in that area?
S4
Oh, yeah, definitely. Because as a blind person, obviously smell is one of your bigger senses. Well, especially for me. And I definitely judge people on the way they smell. And even though I know that people aren't particularly judging me on that same attribute, I always make a conscious effort to smell good. Usually it's Burberry London for me.
S2
All right. Next up, we've got Corey. Who the devil is Corey?
09:46
S4
So she's a good friend of mine. He's also part of a music group that I help to run. And very lovely lady fashion. I think he's a well, it's what people talk about, how you look, how you.
S6
Dress, whether you wear makeup, whether you don't wear makeup, all that kind of thing. To me personally, as long as I'm comfortable, as long as what I'm wearing is presentable, that's all that matters to me. So, for instance, I was born blind, so I wear black leggings or black pants or a black skirt, and it doesn't really matter what color. Blouse, top t shirt I wear as long as it's, you know, a nice looking color. And that's where we have to trust people.
And sometimes it's hard because what one person might say, Oh, that looks really nice. Another person might say, Oh, yuck, that looks really terrible. So it's it goes with trust. It is hard for someone who's never seen color, who's never seen anything like that at all. So it can be quite, quite a challenge, I think for sure.
S4
I agree with you. I've had the same experience. You know, you wear an outfit, you think it feels great, you think it looks great. And I need...
S6
To be told that doesn't really suit you need to wear something different.
S4
Back to the drawing board. Yeah. And so how important is it to you to express yourself with clothing and to look presentable in public?
S6
I think it's important because we already have one thing against us, and that's blindness. And some people, including myself, tend to put my head down a bit if I'm not concentrating on looking at the person who's speaking to me. So it is important to look presentable so that people don't sit there and go, Oh, she's blind. So it doesn't matter that she looks horrible, you know, you don't want to portray that to them. So you want to look presentable enough so that they can come up to you, Oh, you look really nice today or, you know, that kind of thing. So it is important for us to look presentable.
S4
Do you think that there is a stigma surrounding blind vision impaired people and the way that we present ourselves in public? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's often been my experience if I go out to a formal occasion or go to the city, you know, people say to me, You don't look blind, you dress too well. Or like I was saying before, I've been to social events and people say to me, Well, why do you why do you care about the way you look if you're blind? You can't see it anyway.
S6
I am. I change my clothing every day because that way, if I know if I'm wearing something clean, I know that it's not going to stain down the front of it. Or I know that what I'm wearing doesn't look scruffy because I've worn it the night before, the day before. So I'm always changing and wearing clean clothes every day because for that reason.
S4
What about the newest trends? How much importance do you place on keeping up to date with the newest fashions?
S6
That's really hard because again, not being able to see. So I don't know what the new trends are. I just wear what's comfortable for me.
S4
And what about makeup? Do you do makeup or not do makeup?
S6
I have worn makeup at special occasions such as a wedding or a very special. But somebody usually put makeup on for me. I won't try it myself, but I cannot wear. I make up as I have no eyes, so I just wear, say, a bit of rouge or blush or something like that. Cool and sick.
S4
Does it make you feel confident, more confident, knowing that you're dressed really well and have some makeup on and that you look nice? Does?
S6
Yeah, it does. It does make me more confident. I can sort of walk around with my head up high going, Yeah, this is me. I'm Corey, you know, And it does make me feel good.
S4
Yeah. And how about navigating the world of colors and patterns and clothing? How do you go about shopping for pieces of clothing and finding what looks good on you?
S6
I like the feel of some patterns and some clothes and. But color doesn't mean anything to me because I've never seen color. So colors are very. I have to go by what people think. So whoever I go shopping with, it would have to be somebody that I really trust and who's perhaps my age or, you know, within my age bracket, which is in the 50s. And I don't mind saying that color is really hard one because as I said, I just have no concept of color whatsoever.
S2
Michael, are you fashionable?
S4
Oh yeah.
S2
Do you dress? Do you dress in the 'hip" modern style?
S4
No, I just dress very attractively if I do say so myself.
S2
Do you dress? Do you dress in the hip, modern style?
S4
Uh oh. This is hard. Well, I have a lot of friends and family who help me to do the shop, like to go clothes shopping. And I also know what I like the feel of on my body. You know, I like form fitting clothes. There are certain materials I like. And I don't know, I've read a lot of articles about. The different cuts of clothes that suit different body shapes. And I sort of go off of that as well. But I don't keep up to date with the newest trends.
15:04
S3
I've always gone with the philosophy that I've got a certain look and it's at one stage it will be in fashion and then it will go out of fashion and then it'll come back in another 20 or so years. So I've been in fashion for the last for two years in the last, you know, 40 or so.
S2
What's your look, Sam?
S3
My look is generally neat. That's what it comes down to saying.
S4
There you go.
S3
So I don't really go for the the torn clothing or the the stress t-shirts or anything like that. I will tend to go for fairly neat polo shirts and jeans that well, I used to have really very well form fitting jeans, but I don't have that kind of body anymore.
S4
I love form fitting jeans, skinny jeans, high waisted.
S2
Oh my goodness. I don't know what the two of you are on about. Next up, we have Lisa. How do we know Lisa? Lizzie.
S4
Lisa's been a friend of mine since I was six years old. Very confident, vivacious young lady. She's a mother and a very independent. She carries herself very well. So, Lisa, why do you think this stigma exists? What do you think are the contributing factors?
S7
Well, there's going to be several of them. One of the key ones that came to me is that there is a generational gap in a lot of people where where they follow fashion and stuff like that. And a lot of it comes from the generations before us were often institutionalized, put into schools with other blind people, so they weren't exposed to fashions and stuff as the mainstream children were. They were often dressed by their parents and the parents often were dressed modestly and stuff like that.
These days, the kids and students are actually put into mainstream schools, so they're actually expected to keep up with what other students are doing. They're expected to maintain the same level of social norms. And so the students and all that are generally more conscious now of what fashions are and how to dress nicely, especially if they don't want to get picked on.
S4
Yeah, I don't know if it was like this for you, but when I went to school, we had once a week, an hour or so that we would dedicate to learning social skills such as dining etiquette and yeah, dressing properly. And we didn't so much go into what colors go together, but making sure that your clothes were neat and tidy. I feel like maybe this stuff wasn't present before. What do you think? Do you think?
S7
It definitely wasn't present before because attitudes towards disability have changed over the years as well. And it's not just those who are blind vision impaired. We are now integrated into society where before, even after schools and stuff, they were put into sheltered workshops, even if they still had the mental capacity to be able or maybe cope in mainstream world. So those sort of things would not have been there to teach them. This is what you would expect to be in the real world because they weren't expected to be in the real world.
S4
And so people in the public have, you know, become accustomed to seeing these institutionalised people.
S7
And media also helps with that because media hasn't necessarily displayed the best of the best of disabilities over the years. It's only in recent years that we're starting to see them display people with disabilities in a positive light. So quite often if you look at some of the older films with people with disabilities, if they had someone in there, it was generally someone who was severely disabled in the corner doing whatever they were told to do sort of thing with no real life. And now you watch some of the things and they're actually showing people with disabilities in a much more positive light. Yeah.
S4
And I think that's got, you know, it's made a huge difference to on the environment surrounding people with disabilities and, you know, that shift towards teaching people to express themselves through clothing and make up and, you know, because when I was in high school, that was all the rage. It was encouraged.
S7
So my generation, your generation were in the mainstream. So we learnt that we need to start presenting ourselves the way that society will view us as a positive thing. It's already hard enough for us to be seen as positive, contributing members of society, so we need to make sure that at least the way we present ourselves doesn't hinder our ability to be judged in that sense.
S4
So I'll ask you the same question that I've asked everybody else. Yeah, but as an independent and confident person who often engages with the public, have you ever, ever come across the statement "You don't look blind"?
S7
I've actually had people accuse me of of watching the system I have. One was walking down Rundle Mall and a guy came up to me. I was using my cane at the time. The guy came up to me and goes, Oh, you're not blind. And I think for me it's even harder because I am partially sighted. So I do use my vision and sometimes it's actually very hard to tell that I do have a vision impairment. My response to them was simply, Yes, you're right. And I just kept on walking. And my friend goes, Oh, what the hell? And I'm like, Well, technically he's right. I'm not blind and vision impaired.
But yeah, I get that all the time. I've had it walking with with my partner and all that in the past. Someone goes off, you can act blind. At least act better than that. Oh, So even now, since having a child, you get a lot of people going, Oh, how did you have your child like that? The same way you did, I guess.
20:32
S4
I think that's what the public they perhaps don't think about these things when they make statements is that there are varying degrees of vision impairment and especially when you get into the crowd or the population of vision impaired people that dress fashionably, a lot of them do have partial sight as well. Yes.
S7
And so for most of society, you're either blind, you're not they don't know that there hasn't been that education out there about the in between people and the other education. Part of it is that they don't understand that my okay, my vision is an issue, but I still am otherwise, just like anybody else. I still have the desire to be a mum, have a desire to look good, have a desire to have relationships and stuff like that with everybody else, have a desire to go to work. So it's sometimes very hard when society sees you doing that, like, Oh no, no, no, that's not what blind people are supposed to be doing.
S2
And that was Lisa. Makeup. Do you wear makeup, Lizzie?
S4
Sometimes I used to be able to do my own makeup, but there's not many places you can get the sort of stuff that I can use. So I generally tend to reserve for special occasions.
S2
What I mean, it's something we get asked a lot by people who've lost their sight in later life, maybe to glaucoma or something, and they lose the ability to put on the war paint. What advice would you give to somebody who's newly struggling to see their own face in the mirror? What are your top tips for putting on the old slap?
S4
Well, I think a lot of it is to find someone that you can trust with sight to help you, as you put it on, to tell you how much of each thing you should have and just try to feel the texture of the makeup on your skin. If it's too cakey, you know, you've gone way too overboard. If you can't feel anything, you know, you probably haven't got enough. It's all about the feel and just knowing how many swipes of the brush or how many, how much more like tinted moisturiser, it all depends on feel to me. Get someone to get someone sighted to show you first or to be with you while you go through that process and...
S2
To check afterwards to make sure you don't look like Bobo the Clown.
S4
That's right. I've gone out of the house a couple of times looking like Bobo the clown and being told by my friends while being dragged into the nearest bathroom, "We have to fix your makeup. It's a travesty".
S8
Oh.
S2
So next up, we have a little chat that I had on in my back garden here in north London with my friend and now neighbor, Paula. Joining us now, gentle listener in my back courtyard on a sunny September. Is it still morning?
23:18
S9
No, it's about lunchtime. It's lunchtime.
S2
Lunchtime. And what I'm hoping is going to be a semi-regular feature on this show is my Eye Clinic liaison officer. Yours? Yeah. Well, yeah, kind of. You were for me, weren't you, really? Yeah, my friend. And now my neighbor, Paula Thomas. Paula had the devil. Are you?
S9
It's a bit warm in't it.
S2
It's quite nice, isn't it? For September in London. Apparently they're having a really nice spring day down in Adelaide today, and we seem to be having our summer.
S9
Yeah, just only just.
S2
Look at us British people talking about the weather. We couldn't be more cliched if we tried. All right. So the question on the discussion this week, or it's a statement really is. Well, Polly, you don't look blind. Thanks, love. By the way, I'm making that up. You do to me because I know, but apparently you had a situation last week where somebody with whom you are relatively familiar had forgotten that you can't see. You're giving me a blank look.
S9
You're talking about my niece's boyfriend, James? Yeah. Oh, no, it's not that he'd forgotten. He said he hadn't been told. Really? It's the first time I'd met him. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
S2
All right. So should we go...
S9
Back a bit?
S2
Should we go back a bit? And let's. Let's do this. Which is. Let's start with the other part of it, which is, what does a blind person look like anyway?
S9
I personally, I think we all have a perception of it doesn't matter who it is. I don't know if you said in my case, not that there's any similarities, but somebody from Scotland or someone that lives in the bush or somebody from I don't know, it's from the Caribbean. You instantly have an image of a type in your head, either because it's somebody you know or more likely it's it's something from, from media, from films, from other societies archetypes. Yes. And and that's that's completely we all do it. You know, we all do that.
And it doesn't matter if it's disability related or not. You have an image of of what you think that looks like. I don't know. Imagine a horse, you know, you're going to have either you have a horse and that's what you imagine or it's one off an advert or, you know. So I don't think we can be criticised for doing that. I just think it's interesting the types of disabilities, how they're portrayed and therefore what that then looks like to the general public.
S2
So a blind person in this... Wonder. Stevie Wonder for...
S9
Me, it depends on your generation, doesn't it?
S2
But I have an old man in a raincoat with a white stick. Oh, do you? Yeah, I think so.
S9
Yeah. Well, Columbo with a cane, basically.
S2
Columbo with the cane.
S10
As I... Yes.
S2
As I said to my girlfriend the other day, you're like a bloke with scruffy hair and wonky eyes, don't you? Yeah. Yeah.
S9
And she got you. Yeah. But, you know, you do you have an instance? Kind of. And it depends on generation and it depends on lots of things, but it tends to be that that's what you have in your head. And, you know, I certainly get told, well, I've been told lots of things, but you don't look blind. You don't sound blind, which is probably one of my favourites. Um, you ought to fast for a blind woman, you know, again. But this all comes back to what people think, that I walk around touching all the surfaces and feeling faces and stumbling about. And that's even if I managed to, to leave the house because they've got no experience and I don't I never luckily I'm quite competent and I'm usually having a good day.
It's not to say that that's true every minute of of every day of every week, but I can usually communicate with people in such a way that if they're asking these questions, I can answer them. But it does get rather wearing and quite tiring. You think, God, I'm late for work. It's chucking it down with rain. Talking about the weather again. Um, my cat's in the vet's. You just once get to work, so you may not be in the right frame of mind to do that. But again, it's challenging perceptions for me and being I have the confidence and the strength to do that. Not everyone has.
And the worst thing I could do is go out of the house with odd shoes on and it's happened once and only and it's happened recently and it was my biggest fear. And they were exactly the same shoe. One was Navy, one was black. And but for me, I don't want anyone to go, Oh, God, yeah, my husband's terrible for this. He'll. He'll go, Did she look in the mirror before she left the house this morning, or did he look in the mirror before he left the house this morning?
What I don't ever want to happen is somebody to go, Oh, it's all right. She can't see. And so I work really hard at that, that and I enjoy being me as well. I don't find it terribly hard work. I like nice things. And it might be that my handbag matches a piece of jewellery or, you know, I've had the nails done or whatever it might be, but I do those things for me. But what I don't want to happen is somebody to go, Oh, it doesn't matter because she can't see like this.
29:07
S2
Like Lizzie and Corey. You are going back to the whole idea of the clothes that you wear. I'm thinking in some ways more of the fundamental things. And we had a discussion about this over dinner on Saturday night. And your husband, Stuart, who has a vision impairment of a similar level to mine, I think. Yeah. Which is, you know, "not blind enough" it's sometimes called. Yeah.
He said, Oh, my God, I... when I look at myself, I have. And then he listed off a range of symptoms which included rounded shoulders, being close to his phone. I can't remember what the other ones were, but he was able to give it, you know, the four things that he feels he is guilty of doing that make him look not normal, I think is a fair point.
S9
I like that. Not normal. Whatever - bloody hell - "Normal" is.
S2
It?
S9
Yes. And and just to come back and say what you said with, because this has come up with other people you've interviewed on this topic is that yes, it's not all about clothes. There is an element to that because there's a whole book by its cover thing and actually that is what you're judged on. What you then hope is that it then takes you into conversation about what that means for you as an individual. Yeah, and it becomes deeper than that. But it does start with that and with Stuart, you know, again, with his level of vision impairment like yours, is the kind of telltale signs, if you like, of being too close to whatever you're reading. Be that a phone, a book, a sign, you know, a magazine, whatever. The rounded shoulders again because of posture.
So again, those sorts of things come into play, the blagging element. And you did this, you know, you didn't know who was at the door. And it's not until like a split second afterwards that you work out who it is. But actually doing that on the fly is quite difficult when you haven't got that visual kind of signs and signals. So this is where the conversation I think started. So there's physical sort of tells as well.
S2
And you spotted me because of those physical tells the first time we met. Yeah.
S9
Yeah. I knew you were blind before you did. Ha.
S2
Let's not go through that again.
S9
We're not going...
S2
To stick to the top.
S9
Yeah, yeah. Listen to previous shows.
S2
But what was I doing?
S9
But again, it was your posture, your stance, some of that to do with your height. Yeah. But there are definite kind of tells which I think takes somebody else to cut. I understood yours because they're similar to my husband's. Yeah I understand. Anybody, I can spot somebody with retinitis pigmentosa or a variant of.
S2
Which is what your condition, which...
S9
My condition is before an eye consultant can. Yeah. And again it's tells - so I got a work element says other eye conditions that I can usually spot, she says not being able to see them but that is its posture. You can tell by somebody's voice and that was with yours was. I know with my husband not always opening his mouth to pronounce things. You don't ever do this on the radio. I have to say that whenever we've done anything like this.
But part of it is because if you squint, it changes the shape of your face, and therefore it changes the shape of your mouth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God. Oh, no. But you've never. You have done it, but you've never done it in these sorts of circumstances. And it's not that it's not obvious to anybody else. No, but again, that's another, it's just another little towel.
S2
But yeah, when I look at Stuart, your husband...
S9
Neither of you can see each other. You're fine.
S2
Yeah, well, no, but he... Until he is sitting at his computer set up in your living room, which is closer to his face than other people would have. And he's got a special piece of kit for that. Other than that, no idea at all. He was in my kitchen with a circular saw chopping the counters off the other day. He didn't look. He didn't look blind then? No. And it doesn't...
S9
Fit in with. Are you sure he can't see? Yeah. Again, it's that. But it's perception isn't it. And it's, Well how can you possibly do that? And I think one of your other, one of your ladies being interviewed, you know. Well, how did you have children? Well, you just, it's Hello again!
S2
Because I'm not going to say what I said when I first heard that.
S9
No, no, that's probably, you know, but it's again, people can't get their heads around it, and I don't have a problem with that. I'd much rather people ask the question, and rather than sort of making assumptions or thinking that you're making it up. So, you know, I do loads of stupid stuff and people and it's because people can't imagine being able to do it if they can't see. So they'll go, Oh, I don't know, it might be I can't ski, but it might be skiing, you know? Well, I couldn't do that with my eye because it's closed. So how can a blind skier do that?
It's again, I'd rather they vocalise that. And then as a blind skier, you can say, well, this is how I do it. And these are the you know, this is how I make it look so good or whatever it might be. I might do enough stupid stuff. But again, it's it's about opening conversation rather than sitting there going, oh, you know, she, she looks she looks great. She can't be blind. And are you training that dog? And I get that quite a lot.
I'd rather somebody came up and spoke to me rather than sitting there and that fester and let that kind of build in their head. And then they go and tell their friends and family and kids about it. And therefore the whole thing sort of spreads. And without having a discussion, have a discussion.
35:12
S2
Something that's just struck me is now that I think about it, the amount of time and effort I spend trying not to look traditionally blind like a traditional blind, the effort I make. But still, whenever, whenever anybody says to me, Uh oh, I wouldn't have known. I just have to go. You're very kind, but you know what I mean. It's like...
S9
But it's having the confidence to not is to be yourself and not to conform to what you think other people want. Now, I and I'm guilty of this, so I've got no sight in my right eye and in my left eye. I've got the smallest sort of islands cake slice about 11:00. So I don't it's upper left, peripheral, nothing either side of that and nothing below that. So it gives me basic colour and basic shape.
What I mean by that is I can't, you know, I can tell if something's got four sides, but I couldn't tell you if it's a rectangular square. I couldn't tell not to confirm a hexagon. Um, but it gives me enough to have a rough idea and rough idea of colour. So I can. I think I can do colour, but I get blues and greens and browns and blacks and navies. So again, if there's if it was yellow against blue, probably yes. But if it was blue against black or something. Maybe against black. No. Or dark brown. So that's where my level of vision is.
Now, what I'm very conscious that I do and I hate it is that I will turn my head, which is why James, my niece's boyfriend, I'm comfortable in my sister's house. I know where everything is. Move around. And where he noticed it was he was talking to me and I was looking towards him and as far as he was concerned at him and he moved and I continued talking and he wasn't there. The blank space. The blank space. Yeah. Yeah.
Now it used to really bother me and now I sort of give myself a little bit of a smile, relocate and turn and find him and carry on. Whereas that, but that whole turning my head to use that little bit of vision to try and locate something. I hate doing it. But actually if I'm on a good day, I just say I don't give a stuff really. I don't you know, it's...
S11
If I...
S9
Am looking using that bit of my vision...
S2
Yeah. I mean, the thing is that now you and I spent some more time together. I know where to wave stuff at you, which is just above your left eye, and you'll lean your head forward. I have to say, when I saw a picture of I was looking at a picture of my my daughter me the other day and I was in the background of the photo on my phone and I had my phone about an inch away from my face. And it just for a moment, like I wanted the world to open up beneath me. A little bit of a chasm. Did it? Actually a picture of my daughter has her - and we're not allowed to use this word anymore - her spazzy dad in the background.
S9
Referring to yourself as that. It's perfectly fine. Okay. That's what I call you. Yeah. Yeah.
S2
But I'm just... Yeah, I mean, it is something that affects my life every day. Even I push on and try to ignore it, I think.
S9
But it's not. And I think this is. This took me a long time. Is not pushing on, pushing on and ignoring it. It's not trying to conform. It's just being you and being relaxed with who you are. And that doesn't again, I don't think this has anything to do with disability or anything it can is having a good sense of self and actually allowing yourself to do that. And this is actually more about you as a person rather than anything else that's going on.
And I think if you get that right, that then comes across, yes, you know, in the way that you look or the way that you hold yourself or the way that you communicate with people or, you know, you might be a miserable old bugger. It's nothing to do with your vision. You're a miserable old bugger. But it's putting the emphasis on it's because I am. And we've had discussions about texture and colour and tactility and contrast and all those sorts of things. Now, is that because of our vision or is that because the people we are, we're not going to know because we can't. We are who we are. You can't take one from the other. But...
S2
You agree that I've chosen the right color for the sofa?
S9
I think because your girlfriends disagree. So you're going to get me in trouble on a... I've not seen it. And I actually mean I have not seen it. I was not with you when you chose it. But on paper, the idea of it sounds good. Okay. All right...
40:11
S2
You're always fantastically. You love clothes, don't you? Yeah. I mean, everybody else meandered over to clothes in their conversation in some way or another. Today, you are resplendent in a pair of denim like Bermuda length shorts, would you say? Well, they can be.
S9
Either they can be down or they can be tanned right up. Really, really, really short.
S2
Yeah. You got a peach top on and you've got what's that in your hair?
S9
My scrunchie.
S2
It's a nice bright yellow and white scrunchie and a big old pair of film star sunglasses. Yeah. Um, but you. You always dress vibrantly. Are you also, you have many different moods and ways you like to present yourself. There's work. You. There's gardening. You there is going out to cause trouble. You.
S12
Yeah.
S9
I like that one the best.
S2
That's my you were you wear a lot of identifiable colors don't you. When you're not wearing black you wear a lot of identifiable colors.
S9
It's very rare that I wear black. Is it? Yeah. Okay. It is quite rare. Again, you know, I think the easiest thing to do and I've never taken the easy option is to do plain colored bottoms and a different plain colored top. So it might be white bottoms, black top or black bottoms, white top, whatever. And it's it's easy to do that. And I think it is the safe option. And especially if you're not interested in clothes, but you still want to look like you haven't just walked through your wardrobe and come up the other end.
So and so I think that that's the safe option. It's perfectly fine. I would say, with anything like that is obviously get and not families advice, because I think that's probably a huge mistake if you can book into a store, you know, a personal shopper's within store been to, you know, they've been to fashion, they've done fashion courses and classes that probably are students studying at the time. So there they will say, look you know a peplum top which means nothing to you, nothing, nothing at all. So it goes in at the waist, slightly over at the hips so that that suits your shape. Or you've got a long body and short legs or short body and long legs. So this is an easy way to dress to kind of accentuate that or hide it depending on your preference.
So firstly, do that, you know, if you haven't done that and actually if you, you know, you want to do something. Different. But again, it's fine not to. Again, you know, this isn't prescriptive for me. I like good quality, expensive. I think Steve who will feature, you know, talking about buying clothes sort of second hand. I'm a huge sort of vintage shopper for expensive stuff, so I'd much rather have a £20 jumper that that is, I don't know, Jigsaw or Calvin Klein or Ghost or whatever over the same amount of money from one from from our version I'm assuming a target I'm not you know but but Primark would be our version so I'd rather buy expensive second hand rather than cheap throwaway fashion.
You know people that you know, oh, t shirts only cost three quids and once they lose their shape or they get discoloured can just throw them away. Now that environmentally that doesn't sit well with me, but I'd rather have, you know, I've got a yellow t-shirt which also almost got wore today, but it was from Hobbs. It's just a plain yellow t-shirt, but it's held its shape. It washes beautifully, it's slightly fitted. It's got a really nice cut sleeve. If you're going to wear a t-shirt, wear a t-shirt and wear it well rather than something that is a big box.
But that's me, you know? And so, yes, you know, I bought a bright blue handbag the other day because the colour is just fabulous. Fabulous goes with nothing. I've got a bra that colour and that's it. But know that's not so good. I believe you. Yeah. But you know I wear that with an off-the-shoulder top so actually you can see the strap of the bra and it looks like I've done it on purpose - and to me it is about being purposeful. You know, I changed my jewellery, I think about what colour scrunchie I'm putting in my hair. I wear makeup, I get my eyelashes tinted, but I do these things for me, not because, you know, I feel good and it makes me feel confident. I don't cope well with mascara, so go and get your eyelashes tinted. You don't. You know, last six weeks, job done. Bit of clear mascara. Off you go.
But again, it's about yes, it is about public perception. I'd like to be outrageous. I'd like to be more outrageous than I am. But what happens from that is if I don't know, purple hat, bright green coat on and blue boots, rather than me looking like I'm being outrageous and slightly off the wall and, you know, tongue in cheek, it'd be like, oh, she can't see. She has no idea that all those colors are completely changed. So you can you can go too far the other way. Dressed in the dark, she got red.
45:05
S2
Which, funnily enough, is actually what my wardrobe is built for. So I do it the other way round. And as you know, somebody said to me last Saturday night twice, well, judging by the look of you, you know nothing about fashion. It's like, well, I've tried all the clothes and these are the ones that work for me. Since doing this job, I found out that I am not the only person with a vision impairment who chooses solid colours. And as you know, I wear bamboo t-shirts. I order seven of them a year and put them in the wash 50 times and then they biodegrade and I get another set. And so I can be confident. And sometimes when working in radio, you have to get up at 5:00 in the morning. I can be confident. I can get dressed in the dark and that everything will match.
So it's actually quite well thought out. I don't have the variety in my wardrobe that you do, but you'll find me wearing a bright pair of Adidas gazelles, a Paul Smith pair of jeans and the bamboo t-shirts. And it is kind of my uniform. But as people get to know me and I think you can do this already, there's variety within that. So you can probably tell by what I'm wearing today. That's the bright blue t-shirt. I'm quite good. I mean, quite a good mood or I'm not feeling that I need the slimming of a black top.
S9
So I'm just pleased you got dressed this morning.
S2
Oh, it makes a change, doesn't it?
S9
But it is. And I think not all. Again, this is a huge generalisation and this kind of goes back to, you know, that kind of perception. Yeah. All men don't care. Kind of thinks there's lots of men that that really do. And I think certainly younger men now more so than than previous generations. But it's you know, my husband's terrible for it. He's got a pile of boxers, a pile of socks, a pile of t-shirts, a pile of jeans, and he just takes the top one off each of those piles. And so I have to go in and mix them all up. So he actually wears the ones that's the bottom because I don't see the light. Yeah.
S2
With my daughters, if I have a piece of clothing and with his white sweatshirt with the blue Dog on, it is one I particularly don't like. I put it to the bottom of the pile in the drawer. Yeah, but you know, I have opinions about what my children are wearing as well. And occasionally I will ask other people probably at some point, yourself included, Well, what should I wear today?
S9
It's right because you haven't experienced me taking you shopping yet. And it will happen. I will have you in a linen grandad shirt with the cuffs turned back loose over a pair of very nicely fitted black jeans. Yeah, You know, you haven't. I love clothes. And I like seeing my husbands in different stuff. And you're my fill-in. And that's fact. That's an invite for you at some point, but not... and that's to a dinner dance rather than when you think anything saucy. But it's you know, again, you know, Stuart's not bothered, but he always smells nice, which for me is fab. Yeah. And, you know, he just he goes with what he's comfortable in. But again, it's probably fine.
S2
Smells interesting, actually. Yeah, because I'm very fussy about my. How I smell.
S9
You never smell, but you never smell of anything in particular either. No, it's...
S2
Very, very...
S9
Deliberate. Yeah, I know it's deliberate.
S2
You don't. I don't have a particular aroma that I associate with you either.
S9
Like, so I've just got a mountain of different types of perfume.
S2
Okay, so I wear underarm deodorant you can plaster a wall with. And there will occasionally be a waft of fabric softener, but that is all I smell. Yeah, I'm very self conscious. If I've got a bit of a sniff on or have misapplied deodorant, I'm very conscious of it. And I think genuinely it's a cliche, but I think it's partly because I need the extra stimulus of, you know, being able to take in other people's smells partly to recognise people and partly to be aware of the environment that I'm in.
S9
Listeners, he sniffs people's butts.
S2
I'm just making friends.
S9
I've told you, you can't do that.
S2
Saying hello. Yeah, she doesn't like it when I'm up against lampposts either. But I'm marking my territory, Paula. And but we need to get a name for this feature. We need to do that. I don't know. It's Notes from the Garden, or My Pongs. Oh, thank you. But will you come back on a semi-regular basis and help me with all these difficult questions?
49:42
S9
Yeah. If you're inviting me and. And people want me back.
S2
Two words. Jaffa cakes.
S9
There you go. Are they a cake or are they a biscuit? There you go. I'm having the last word. I never have the last word. Bye bye, listeners. Lovely having you here. Bye.
S2
Right. That's your lot for this week. Thanks to Steven, to Corey, to Lisa, and to Paula for their contributions. And a huge thank you to you, Lizzy, for bringing this all together for us. Great concept for a show and brilliantly executed.
50:12
S4
Thank you. Thank you. It's good to help you guys out again.
S3
And of course, thank you for listening.
S2
We'll be back next week speaking to the founder of the White Cane Coffee Company. That's right, Blind people serving hot liquids between now and then. Please do get in touch with the show, whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio one or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
S3
You can email Studio one at Vision Australia. Org. That's Studio one at Vision australia.org.
50:46
S1
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation or Studio one.
