00:34
S1 (Speaker 1)
This is Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2
Hello, I'm Matthew. And I'm Sam. And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio. On this week's show, our guest is family man, high powered business mega brain and formerly Australia's number four men's tennis player, Shannon Davis. Unfortunately, proving that sight loss can happen to anyone. A couple of years ago, out of the blue, Shannon discovered that he'd lost 90% of his sight to glaucoma.
S3
As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio one or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight might help someone else who's dealing with something similar.
S2
You can email Studio one at Vision Australia. Org, That's Studio one at Vision Australia. Org And we also accept complaints and heckling through the medium of Twitter Vision Australia Radio can be found at at Radio Network and I can be found at Twitter.com slash swinging.
S1
POM This.
S4
Is.
S1
Studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2
Hello there, Sam.
S3
Hello there, Matthew. So this show is not what you were expecting it was going to be, I suspect.
S2
No, it wasn't. So this guy, Shannon first came into our orbit in March last year. Within 15 months of discovering that he'd lost 90% of his sight to glaucoma. But he was already putting himself out there working as an ambassador for Glaucoma Australia, trying to help other people avoid the permanent sight loss that glaucoma can lead to. But as mercenary as it sounds, and as much as I felt for Shannon and his family at the time, he had a different way of looking at things. So by profession, he was a very senior partner at PwC, so global business support services firm PwC. And he kind of looked at things that you may and our listeners deal with on a daily basis from an organizational and even a policy perspective. And for me, it was quite interesting for us. I think it was good. I felt it was good for us to have somebody of that caliber on our side, on our team. And I felt that his personal loss was going to be to the benefit of of those of us in general who live with a vision impairment or sight loss. And I wasn't wrong.
So a couple of months ago to mark World Glaucoma Week 2023, Shannon and Glaucoma Australia put together a seminar on financial wellness. Basically what you can do to look after yourself and your family financially in the aftermath of sudden and catastrophic sight loss. So in theory, Shannon was here to promote that seminar. You can find a link to it on the podcast description or on the Vision Australia Radio website at npr.org. But because Shannon is incredibly frank about what he's been through and very generous of spirit, our conversation went in a very unexpected direction. Before you listen to today's interview with Shannon, I didn't want him to make him jump through the hoops to relive the trauma of discovering that he'd lost 90% of his sight. So I'm going to play you a clip from his interview last year that tells of when he went for a routine eye exam in December 2020. And yeah, the aftermath of that.
04:31
S5
If I'm going to be getting glasses, I'd like to get a nice pair. So I picked the doc that that had the the nicest frames and I, I guess I had almost short listed a couple of the frames as I was waiting for my test. Anyways, I was then taken into the back room for my eye exam and within minutes the optometrist flicked the light switch back on and said, Is your wife nearby? You mentioned you were doing some shopping with your family. And I said, Yeah, she's just down at Coles and she said, Could you give her a call and ask her to come back? I've got some important news that I need to share with you both. Oh, God, Really? Yeah. I was very concerned in that moment. I mean, I wasn't sure what she was talking about because I could still see her. And I had had no symptoms, as we discussed, so it wasn't really sure what she was about to say. But anyways, Bronwyn, my wife came back to the shop at the optometry shop and we sat down and optometrist shared the news that essentially from her very preliminary look at my eyes that she could see that I had very advanced glaucoma and that I had pressures in both eyes in the high 40s where they like people to be. Way between 13 and 21. I was in the high 40s in both eyes. She said that I was possibly legally blind and that I needed to see an eye surgeon urgently and that she would help me do that the next morning.
S2
So that was Shannon Davis from the past. There's a lot for us to get through today, and I didn't want to make him jump through those particular hoops again. Now it's time to speak to the Shannon Davis of the present Before we get down to business. Shannon, how the devil are you?
S5
I'm very well, thanks, Matthew. Life is good. It's different, but it's very fulfilling. And the last 12 to 18 months have been, from a family perspective, have been really good for us. Being enjoying, creating special memories together with my wife and the kids, doing a little bit of travel here and there and really just trying to push into how fulfilling this life, this new life of mine can be. So yeah, it's been a good period and and I'm well, thank you.
S2
It's interesting. You lead with family and anybody who's followed your story is familiar with the patience, tolerance and support of your wife Bronwyn. And of course your boys are six and two now.
S5
Six and two. Yes. Yeah. Keeping us on our toes. Yeah.
S2
But back in the UK, I moved in circles similar to yours. My friends worked as hard as you did. Ridiculously hard sometimes, I think, and to the detriment of their families. Is there perhaps a bit where you being forced to take professional retirement has perhaps presented a silver lining to a cloud? Is there a silver lining to that cloud?
S5
Yeah, I think that's definitely part of it that I'm coming to learn more and more about as time passes. I do feel like this has been a bit of a hidden blessing in that sense. Bronwyn And I often say to each other how different things used to be in terms of being able to be present for the various activities and commitments that the kids have on. There's no question that I am you know, I've been able to be so much more in their everyday life than I would have been able to be had I continued in that in that professional path. So it is and this is a time in their lives, no doubt, where they they're really keen on that. There may be a there may be a time in their lives later on where they're less keen on dad hanging around so much. But they certainly are enjoying and we're all enjoying together, I guess, these really special times where they're so appreciative and so happy to have me by their side at their various activities and different routines that we've set up for the two of them. And yeah, this has been some kind of hidden blessing.
I do think that whilst we do honour that and we're giving that that side of it and taking the positivity out of it, we always do also say, well, the reason we're throwing ourselves into that area of this challenge is we know that later on maybe there will be more challenging times from a vision perspective, and maybe that's why we need to really smell the roses and and really value every day that we've got in this in this current phase of the condition.
09:21
S2
Yeah, look, I've said this to you before, and again, I'm sounding rather crass again, but but for me, when we met last year, I think you were about 15 months after your diagnosis. And my perspective was that, yes, I appreciate our hard times coming up and everything that you've lost. You know, when you lose your sight, you lose other things as well, like your independence and your mobility. And as we're about to discuss your, you know, your income, your livelihood most of the time. And it's interesting to me that that actually having you somebody with your qualifications and your mindset go through this particular loss, your personal loss is people with a vision impairment gain. I was interested to see what you would do because I think you've been dropped into the world as well as the world of of losing your sight. You'd been dropped into a world of many people fighting many different battles that you weren't aware that existed much the same as me before I got this job. And it was interesting to see your analytical brain and management consultancy mindset looking at stuff from a structural and policy level, almost like a government level.
I mean, there are two things that you in particular were talking about at the time. I don't know how you feel about them now. The first. One was the idea of glaucoma testing at a government level. You were banging the table and going, How can we make this compulsory? How can we make sure that everybody who is potentially at risk gets checked? How do we make it mandatory? Where do you stand on that now? How have you progressed on that one?
S5
Yeah, yeah. I guess over the last 18 months I've become a little bit more balanced on it as I've learnt more. I understand the fundamentals of screening a little bit better now. I've had a number of discussions with my own treating specialists about this topic because I was so passionate about potentially helping to lobby for some change in the industry around this. And as I understand it, and I guess there's more for me to learn and I'll continue to develop my views and approach to this. But as I understand it, there is some level of risk when you up the level of screening for a particular condition. There is some level of risk that you can flood the system with people that are in the very early stages of a condition and don't need urgent assistance in the form of, say, surgery like I did when I was first diagnosed with very advanced glaucoma. And so I think there is a little bit of balance to be brought to the thinking on it and the approach to it. Yet I'm still pretty strong on certain points.
So for example, I'll never forget one of my sliding doors moments was being at the Roads and Traffic Authority to renew my licence for a period of five years and this would have been. Oh, you know, just... prior to or certainly in the say in the year leading into my diagnosis. So there was no question that at that stage damage had occurred with my glaucoma and I was simply just walking around undiagnosed unbeknownst to me and being at the Roads and Traffic Authority in at Haymarket in at the city there in Sydney, and having someone say to me, pay this fee and we'll give you another five years. And I actually said to the lady, I said to the representative of that office, don't you need to check my eyesight? And she said, well, do you wear prescription glasses? And I said, No, I don't. And she said, well, I don't need to check your eyesight. You're free to go. And here's your new license for five years.
And that was a sliding doors moment for me because I, as I understand it, had someone said to me that day, cover your right eye and read the chart, I certainly would not have been able to read that chart. I would have seen virtually I wouldn't have seen anything on that chart and I would have been alerted to the fact that there was a problem with my vision and gone down a path to diagnosis and treatment a lot earlier. And that would have saved a lot of damage to my optical nerves. And so I actually do feel like there are some pretty clear cut changes that could be made in circumstances like that where because this...
That whole... misunderstanding that exists in the community and I held it myself, was if I was walking around thinking if I didn't need prescription glasses and still to this day, I do not require prescription glasses. They are no assistance to me, you know, because my issue is not my central vision. It's my peripheral vision.
And so I believe that that's only fueling that misunderstanding in the community. You know, that little moment, that sliding doors moment, you know, that's happening every day.
14:22
S2
So because you're losing your peripheral vision. So there's a bit where you sort of retired yourself, didn't you? Because it's not about how much you can see in front of you. And as you say that, you know, prescription lenses and what that brings, it's something coming at you from the side, I guess, if you're driving a car.
S5
Yeah. So in my case, my disability, you know, the biggest impacts are certainly around not my role or in particular involved a lot of presenting to large groups and my ability to read the room, so to speak, to see the facial reactions of people to my left and right and to the back of the room and so forth as to what I might be presenting is severely impacted. I mean, essentially anything that's in my peripheral vision is severely impacted by my situation. I'm completely unaware of what's happening in my peripheral. And so because it is so advanced and it is so chronic and, you know, in the case of my left eye, you know, I'm less than five degrees of arc, which essentially means that that is really just looking out of a pinhole. Yeah.
15:39
S2
So you're looking through a slit in the middle there type of thing, are you?
S5
Yeah. Yeah. And my, you know, my better I my right eye is less than ten degrees of arc, so it's not much better, to be honest. It's still very advanced on the right side. My left side is what they call end stage glaucoma, which is essentially the definition of that is regardless of what we do, that I will go fully blind because we've just caught it too late.
S2
That's a cheery title, isn't it?
S5
It's certainly, yeah. When people are writing on your certificates. And so forth that you have end stage chronic glaucoma. That's certainly and and you've got to put it, you know, put in the context of you're walking around not realising that you had anything wrong with your eyes.
S5
Yeah. And it's certainly something that takes a while to process.
S2
Yeah, that's kind of the bit where you put your ticket to Switzerland. You're one way ticket system, isn't it?
S5
It's certainly something where, you know. These decisions, these big decisions that then played out in terms of what I wanted to do with my time, you know, was it made things very clear cut, that's for sure, from my perspective. And so far, there's been no regrets from my perspective, because as we said at the outset, this has been a very special time with Bronwyn and the kids.
S2
And we've got waylaid. Of course we're going to because there is there is so much to cover. It is an overwhelming topic. The second thing that you mentioned last time and I wanted to see where you are on this one, is obviously we're going to talk in a moment about the seminar you did for Glaucoma Australia on financial wellness, which is again, something people don't think about. You know, everybody's talking about recovering from from sight loss in a physical and a medical way. But the financial side of things, it's very interesting and exciting that you have put work into this.
But one of the things you were talking about last time is having been dropped into this world and you use the word disability about yourself, which I'm still not comfortable with, 49 years in myself. But I remember you saying that Bronwyn had parked the car at a supermarket or somewhere and you got out the car and somebody in a wheelchair started shouting at you because you're disability. You clearly didn't look disabled. And that sort of led on to a thought about people within the sector as a whole working in silos rather than working together. I wonder 15 months on from when we last spoke. What's your impression of that and how have you how do you see it now?
S5
Yeah, that's a really good one because it's a topic that I continue to encounter, personally. So I had a situation the other day where I'm trying to... despite my issue with my peripheral vision, I'm trying to be able to get some golf lessons. And hopefully, you know, improve how I can hit a golf ball. Even though I must admit it's one of the activities that makes me feel the most disabled of any particular activity I do because I never see the ball off the tee. I can see the ball when it's at my feet, but once it's up in the air because it naturally goes to your peripheral in the first instance. And then most people use their peripheral vision to then bring it into their central vision. I don't have any peripheral, so I never see it once. It's once I've connected with the ball. And people need to tell me where it's gone, essentially. And then I get that feedback loop on, Oh, okay, so if I do this with my swing, then it'll go to the right or to the left, but I'm having to rely on Can I.
19:31
S2
Just, so I'm going to have to interrupt you there. That's just I mean, that's just the most terrible idea you've ever had. So the whole notion to you that you would be able to see a ball... I'm I don't think I've told this story on on the show before, but my grandmother back in the 1950s was Canadian or women's golf champion. Okay. And she used to own a golf course in Vancouver. And my grandfather was one of the professional players there, and he thought it'd be a great idea to do a grandfather grandson bonding thing where he would take me to play golf. Yeah. And to be honest, I didn't get as far as hitting the ball really very much. And there was a certain amount of impatience and then he just gave up. But the whole idea of spending a hobby where you have to look for something that's small in a large area, maybe, maybe pool would be better for you, I think.
S5
Yeah. Well, you know what's interesting is I've had some... very dark, you know the...
S2
Hello? I've lost you.
S5
Yes. Sorry. No, I'm here. I just. You know. As I said, it's been a very difficult challenge, the golf thing, because it is one of the activities that you feel.... most affected in. But funnily enough, that's one of the reasons I'm doing it. Because it is so confronting. It's it's really confronting. It sounds like a First World problem. Shannon, you can't see your golf ball, but it is, you know, very, the feeling that you get is very limiting and, you know, searching. If you ever go out on the course and then you have to search for your ball.
And that the club where I play, they actually have a rule that says you've only got three minutes to find your ball - and I can be looking with the help of others for my ball, for the entirety or for most of that three minutes. If I haven't found the fairway off the tee, which is almost all of the time. I could be under a big fig tree or something and I'm relying on others to help me find that ball. And then I've got to, you know, often I'll be in a situation where I've pretty much given up hope that I will find that ball. And then I'm going to wipe that hole. And play the next hole. And then all of a sudden someone will put their hand up saying, Oh, here it is over here. And there'll be a few seconds left, basically, where I then need to gather my thoughts about how far I am away from the pin and the green and what type of shot I want to play for the next shot, you know? Whereas everyone else has pretty much found their ball within 20 seconds and they've had a couple of minutes to think about that next shot.
And the whole thing is just the most scary, intimidating experience I've ever put myself through. I mean, I was a very good tennis player when I was younger, so this is a completely different sport for me. But there is something weirdly... there's something weird about it where I just can't give up. I just have to keep throwing myself at it.
Because it is the one time in the week where I'm confronted by the darkness of my disability in the most severe way. You know, it's actually, you know, even my coach, I must admit, has a kind of reaction similar to what you had just there, Matthew, is to say, you know, are you sure you want to do this? Because this is pretty much as hard as it gets for someone in your situation. You know, and you know, there are lots of other things with larger balls. That you can go around and try and, you know, you could play basketball or you could you could go back to tennis. The ball's a bit bigger and you'll probably see that a bit better, even though it's moving faster at you and so forth. There still be issues. But you know, because you've got that experience from your younger days, it'll probably be muscle memory and you'll be a lot more relaxed out there and less intimidated. But here I am, you know, once a week throwing myself into that that pastime. But I can say it's certainly been, you know, very confronting.
S2
Have you always been a stubborn fucker?
S5
I think there's an element of that in me. And there's something about because I was, a much I was... very good at tennis. I'm, you know, trying to be humble about it, but I was actually ranked in the top, when I was 16, 17 years of age. I was ranked in the top four in the country in Australia. As for tennis, I was very elite. As a junior tennis player, I played 5 or 6 days a week.
S2
Did you hammer Lleyton Hewitt at any point? I guess he must be contemporary.
S5
He's younger. I was in the Mark Philippoussis era. Oh, yeah. So he Mark Philippoussis and I had some good battles. Wow. And yeah, so I was in that era and came through in that time. And but anyways, there's something about having sort of conquered one sport at an elite level that puts you in a position where you don't you refuse to believe that you can't be good at another sport. And even allowing for the disability, you know, I just refuse to believe that I can't get good at this thing somehow. You know?
And you know, I do have to acknowledge that golf is a very fair game. I mean, when I rock up and say to people, Do you mind spotting my ball? You know, no one's ever said to me, I'm not willing to do that. There's a lot of great sportsmanship in golf, I'm finding, and their reaction is always like, Yeah, we're happy to do that. And that's what we're required to do under the rules of golf anyway, someone's going to score you, so someone's got to keep an eye on your ball so it's not an inconvenience. And I do occasionally have bad luck though, because I've been partnered up with people that have got very bad cataracts and don't have the best vision themselves. So we tend to go through a lot of balls when that happens. But but look, it's yeah, it's just something that I'm certainly I've got it on my list of little personal challenges and but yeah, it's one of the things during the week where I feel apart from not being able to drive.
So an example is my wife Bronwyn. There's a family illness at the moment in New Zealand. She's a Kiwi and this weekend she has to fly down. She's flying down this afternoon to New Zealand to attend to that. And that's all well and good and we'll get by. But when you can't drive, everything's a bit trickier. When you've got a two year old and a six year old that need a booster seat and a child seat. And so all of their commitments and routines that are all set up for the weekend, you know, I'm going to do my best to, let's...
26:17
S2
Tell me about it.
S5
So I made a very conscious decision when I was in my 20s to live in central London. So I... Funnily enough, you often use the word sight loss or the term sight loss. Yes. I've never really had any to lose. So again, I feel very grateful for that, that I haven't had to go through the shock that you have. But moving to Adelaide at a at a time when we had two five year olds who, as you say, both of whom need needed booster seats. And I just remember my wife saying to me, Why don't you get the bus? Yeah. Want you get the bus. So almost, I've been through the same process. It's I... and in fact, I went back to London last month and to the extent that, you know, I was able to go for a drink with my mate and in a grotty pub in Kilburn. And then the following day I went, I got on a train at London Bridge and I went down to the countryside and I had a nice roast beef lunch in a rural pub with my friend Alex and his lovely wife, Wendy. Yeah.
And yeah, I have to say. God, I wasn't going to do this. I've reached the point where I've had enough. Yeah. and my kids are now 11. And as you touched upon earlier, there will come a time in their life where they don't. You said appreciate having you close. But the other thing is, is need you to be as hands on. When they were five years old. I had to be in the room to communicate with them. I had to go and pick them up from school. If it was over, if it was over 28 degrees, we'd get an Uber back. Yeah. And yeah, I, and I had to be there in the house to look after them. Nowadays, they communicate with their friends over Skype and Zoom, so they're used to that kind of thing. And, yeah. And you know what, Shannon? I'm going back. I'm going back to London to regain my freedom of my independence. Daddy's going to go and work on the rigs for six months. Yeah, because I can do it. And I think unless you've been through it and I think in terms of loss, in terms of loss of mobility, I've been through what you've been through. Even though I haven't had any further vision loss.
S2
No. You've actually experienced. Yeah.
S5
I just need my mojo back. Yeah. And I went back to London and I regained that freedom. And yeah, I finally, after boosting confidence that it gave me. I gave a mate of mine about said, How are you? And he said, I'm very well, thank you. And so is my partner from Uruguay who you didn't think I'd hang on to. And we now have a ten month old kid. Yeah.
And I said, Oh, my God, can I come and play with the baby? Because I like a baby? Yeah. And then the following day, there was a piece in the radio industry newspaper that said, or a web page that said, the podcast Radio network are setting up a production house. So I'm going I'm going to see this bloke on Monday. He hasn't got a clue of how to set up a production house. But given the mojo of my return to London, I said, Look, this is what you need. Have you employed anyone for this? And he went, No, it's a nightmare. I don't know who I'm going to get to run it. Oh, well.
Here are the bits on my CV where I've done that before. Yeah, let's go for it. And you know what? It's just I'm walking a little taller. And to be able to get the...
S2
Weird thing that you're not going to be able to have is I've got until the autonomous bloody car comes out is on, you're not going to be able to get that back.
S5
And I can just see a place where I can get that freedom of movement back. And as I say, the kids, the bit you're doing right now where you're spending time with the kids is quite...
right. And there comes a point where actually, you know, it's not going to be easy, but I'm going to communicate with them. Over Zoom and Vision Australia have been great and said, I can continue doing this.
Well, that's the beauty of technology, isn't it? You can do it from anywhere. So that's wonderful. And yeah, I was going to say, Matthew and I know we got off track there...
S2
I don't care. I think what we're going to have to admit is that the financial wellness program is going to have to be after this one. But it's just yeah, I think you and I have always identified with each other to a certain extent. And I was certainly not intending to say any of what I just said. But hearing, hearing you and the parallel experience that we had, I just thought...
S5
Thank you for sharing that. No, I really it resonates with me what you've just said and what you've shared. And I'm, yeah, I'm extremely proud of what you're trying to do there to re-establish that mobility and that independence.
S2
Right. That's your lot for this week. A big thank you to Shannon for being so generous with his time and his energy. I believe the word you use, Shannon, is authentic.
31:51
S3
And of course, thank you for listening.
S2
Links to Shannon's Financial Wellness Seminar made in conjunction with Glaucoma Australia can be found on the radio station website RVA Radio. Org next week. Well, Sam, have you got lined up for us?
S3
So Australia is sending its first ever women's cricket team to the IBSF World Championships. So hopefully we'll get to speak to a couple of their members and very, very hopefully if you're very, very good, we'll get to speak to their coach.
S2
All right. Between now and then, please do get in touch with the show, whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio One or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
S3
You can email the show Studio One at Vision Australia. Org, That's Studio one at Vision Australia-dot-org.
S2
And you can find us on Twitter, the radio station can be found at at Radio Network and I can be found at Twitter.com Whingeing.
32:46
S1
POM Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
