00:04 S1
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
00:12 S2
Hello, I'm Sam.
00:13 S3
And I'm Lizzie, and.
00:14 S2
This is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view. Here on Vision Australia Radio.
00:20 S3
On this week's show...
00:22 S2
It's Christmas in Australia. We've all eaten too much. And the sound of kids playing with new toys that will be broken tomorrow surrounds us.
00:29 S3
On our first holiday special, we look back at the start of 2024 - and sometimes things don't go completely to plan.
00:38 S2
As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there is something we should be talking about, you never know - your insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
00:51 S3
Please do get in touch with us via email at studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org. Or perhaps you can drop us a comment on our Facebook page at facebook.com slash VA Radio network.
01:09 S2
Merry Christmas, Lizzie.
01:10 S3
Merry Christmas to you, Sam. And how are you today?
01:15 S2
Well, strictly speaking, I'm on a cruise ship off the coast of New Zealand.
01:18 S3
Oh, really? Because I could have sworn you were right here. You know, opposite me. But maybe my mind's playing tricks on me.
01:25 S2
Owing to the magic of radio at this very moment, I am on a cruise ship off the coast of New Zealand. Where do you intend to be on Christmas Day?
01:34 S3
Training and spending time with family. So you know, nothing different to the normal, really? Probably going to stay with my stepdaughter, to be honest.
01:42 S2
So, dear listener, we're not used to coming to you at this time of the year. Usually we put on some sort of repeat, but as Christmas and New Year are on a Wednesday, the radio station had wanted us to do something special - and special we have in store for you this week. We are going to play some of our bloopers when things didn't quite go right and well. Peter Greco, our colleague, has agreed to allow some of his more special moments to be broadcast as well.
02:11 S3
Lucky you. You get to listen to us on Christmas Day.
02:15 S2
Today we are looking at the start of 2024. So, Lizzie, is there anything that actually stood out to you either on the show or off the show that... really? Yes, just about the year 2020 [?four inches] general. So going from January to July.
02:31 S3
Why do you always ask me the tough questions, Sam? I would have to say that one of the things that stands out the most to me was the interview that we did with... Rina, the founder of Sisterwould - because accessible beauty products is something that's always been close to my heart, and I absolutely loved hearing her story about how she was able to... start this amazing haircare brand.
02:57 S2
The thing that I found interesting with the show really was this whole... notion that people did not want to talk about their love lives. So we were going to do a whole Valentine's Day special, and no one wanted to talk about it up until we broadcast this thing. And all of a sudden everybody comes out of the woodwork and suddenly they want to talk about their love lives.
03:17 S3
Yes. The amount of people that I've got, you know, contacted me going, Are you going to do another Dating Blind special? I want to be on it. I want to tell my story. It's like you had your chance. Why didn't you come out of the woodwork then when we actually needed it? I mean, now we've we've done the subject half to death, so... I'm sorry.
03:36 S2
Well, dear listener, we probably will be doing another Valentine's Day special in the new year. And this is the beauty is when we find material, we use it. And so that's really what it comes down to. So anyway, enough of us. Let's listen to some more of us. Hello, I'm Sam.
03:56 S3
And I'm Lizzy.
03:58 S2
And I'm... and my microphone's not done properly. Okay, I'll try that again.
04:04 S3
Maybe you should just show a little, like sensitivity and maybe give a little bit of thought to the people that you're joking about?
04:12 S2
What the hell?
04:16 S3
What the hell? That's a drill I guess, because you can go by feel. You don't really have to see too much what you're doing. Is that correct?
04:27 S2
I find massaging a fantastic fit for me. I find it while it people say it's physically demanding, but it actually, I don't find that kind of thing. That's all right. Sorry. Stop it. No, no.
04:48 S3
We can edit this out. It's all good. I'm not. I'll start again. Sorry. Yes.
04:58 S2
But enough of us. Let's talk to an expert.
05:01 S3
All right. How do I find an expert? Now, You said it. You silly bugger.
05:12 S2
Yep. That's me. I'll finish off. Yeah, that's a rip. That's a rip. Okay. We find out what happens when a vision impaired person falls through the falls, through the air. I don't know how to write, do I? We find out what happens to a vision impaired person... what happens when a vision impaired person falls through the barrier? I wrote this. All right, I'm turning your microphone off. You're a credit. Yeah. That's it. Your microphone's off. Sorry.
05:51 S1
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
05:58 S2
So you've got an interesting relationship with Braille, don't you?
06:01 S3
Well, I've used braille ever since I was a little kid, So being blind since birth, I grew up with Braille, and I always say Braille is the bedrock of my literacy. So when I was a kid, I used it for reading storybooks and school textbooks, and then it was very important in my study of mathematics. I had all my lecture notes written in Braille, and I would write out my assignments in Braille as well. And then as an adult, I've I've read books in Braille and used Braille for notetaking. So it's been very important to me.
06:40 S2
Finally, the name of this episode is, Is Braille Dead?
06:45 S3
Is it? Nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. It's expanding. There's more opportunities than ever before with the convergence, with technology. It's alive, it's kicking. It's thriving. It's moving forward at a rate of knots, which is absolutely brilliant. To make sure that we have people with non-functioning eyesight having the same opportunities as anyone else. That's what it's always been about. It's we are people who cannot see. We're still people and we deserve opportunities just like anyone else.
07:25 S2
I mean, mobile phones have changed a lot since they were first, first brought in. They started out as these big chunky things where you could feel the buttons. You knew where everything was. And now we've got these smart devices with screens. And for a long time everyone was thinking that, well, these would be utterly impossible for blind people to use, but it's proved quite the opposite. It's sort of let a lot of people free on the internet.
07:49 S3
It reminds me of the days when we went from, um, this is going way back now. I'm starting to really feel old now when we went from DOS to windows, because as soon as windows was mentioned, every blind person almost in the world threw up their hands and went, oh my goodness, how can blind people use a graphics user interface? And then, of course, it was about a year later that we could actually start using in windows. And then of course, when we went from the old Symbian phones that had talks on it, that worked if your standard keyboard. And then we heard about these horrible things that had flat screens on them that were called smart phones, I think people started to get very worried again, that like going from DOS to windows, we'd be locked out again.
But hey presto, it took about two years after the iPhone came out for us to have speech output. So VoiceOver and I think from memory talkback was about 2010 or 11. But before that we used to have these little weird devices. I remember there was a Dell PDA, and what they did was they wrote their own software interface to it. It had this really weird rubber keyboard that you put over the touch screen, and then you use that sort of physical keyboard to then use it. I think back then it was called the maestro. I want to say it was cold. So there was that sort of like ad hoc thing to use a PDA back at that time. And now, ever since then, you know, we just almost take it for granted that we've got, you know, we've got screen readers and screen magnification and Braille support for both Android and iPhone.
And if you would have asked me, you know, six years ago, I probably would have said, oh, look, you know, most blind people tend to use, you know, iPhones and iPads, but because Google has put a lot more work into Android and there are still some little issues with it. But overall, um, in some ways Android gives you a little bit more flexibility than, than what iPhone does because the iPhone is the iPhone. If you don't like the iPhone, then that's it. Whereas if you don't like a certain Android phone or you can't afford a certain Android phone, you can go and shop around. And of course, some phones you can add, you know, more memory to and do other stuff with it.
So it really comes down to, you know, both of them looking at, you know, cost, what you want to use the phone for and what you're used to. So, you know, if you use the windows, then you know, sure, Android or iPhone, it doesn't make any difference if you're a whole Apple universe type person. So you might use an iPad, um, and perhaps a mac. Then, you know, maybe it makes more sense then to stick with with the iPhone. So I always say to people now, these days, that the choice is pretty much up to what you want to do and to make sure that the apps that you want to use on either platform do the job for you.
10:42 S2
So one of the more important things about learning how to do things in the real world, in inverted commas is, well, coping with supposedly difficult situations. And there's nothing more difficult than an environment where you've got hot things and sharp things, and that's just the normal kitchen. I'm talking to Deborah Erickson from The Blind Kitchen, and this is pretty much your raison d'etre, isn't it?
11:05 S4
It is. It is.
11:07 S2
So what would you say is the most important thing if you are... I don't know, if you're if you're blind or vision impaired yourself, or if you are the partner or parent of a blind person... you want them, get them started in the kitchen.
11:19 S4
You need to have basic, accessible measuring cups and spoons because it's hard to follow a recipe. You need to have things that will protect you in terms of cutting, like we have a cut resistant glove that you can't cut through it. The other things are things like what we call sharps baskets, which is a basket that's found at your workstation or whoever's cooking. And then a basket is in the back at the back of the sink. So if I'm using a knife, I don't have time to clean it right now or I don't want to. Or maybe it has, you know, some kind of raw egg or, you know, raw protein on it. I can just take it over to the back of the sink and put it down, and I'm done with it for now.
But the whole family has to make the agreement or the whole household, because if only one person has vision loss, other people can glance and see it. We can't. So it's just it's a strategy just to help keep everyone safe and organised.
12:14 S2
And make sure no one changes anything around. There's nothing worse than having things organised and someone "cleaning up", in inverted commas.
12:21 S4
Exactly right. That's very frustrating. So we have to train the people we live with.
12:32 S3
So tell me, how long you've been riding together?
12:36 S5
We have been riding together for... sorry. Hi, Missy. Nice to be here. We have been riding together for about 18 months that are competing together for about 12. So not that long. But... Jane bounced across my front yard, and... I hit a pole by... yeah, they hit a big side tangents. Said I found a new pilot for you and female, and she needs to learn how to be a pilot for another male triathlete. Blind triathlete? I said, Okay, no race. And across the line came the six foot one tall, blond, Amazonian. And I said, shit, I'm in trouble... and... the first thing she said was, Oh, hi, I'm Jay. Oh, you need kit. Now, I didn't even know what kit meant. Apparently so. And so it's... cycling gear. And, yeah. So, 18 months later, we're bronze medal at nationals and about to compete in her first World Cup.
13:35 S3
And for what? I understand, you were telling me earlier that you guys don't just do cycling together. What other sports have you competed in?
13:43 S5
We do. Jay also. I was also told that I would soon be asked by Jay, do you want to do a triathlon? Yep. I said no. And I was convinced to do to do one. And I did a triathlon with Jay, and I've done one triathlon now, and, we did an aquabike very recently where we did a two kilometer swim in the open water in Lake Burley Griffin in Canberra in a 90 K A9K bike ride to follow. So that's called an aqua bike.
14:07 S3
Jay. We'll just cross to you. So tell me about your experience as being a pilot, because the whole idea of tandem cycling is that the the sticker on the back is solely reliant on a fully sighted person to compete or even just be able to participate in this sport. So for you, did that mean that you had to set aside your own goals or what was the deal? What did what were your thoughts going into it?
14:33 S6
I think probably for most people, the first time they get on the front of the tandem to guide or to pilot, and your first fear is you're going to do something wrong. It's the responsibility of doing everything correctly. And initially, that's what was stopping me. I had a lot of trepidation about doing something and hurting someone behind you in charge of your own bike. You can make mistakes, but when someone else is on that bike too, there's a lot of responsibility. But actually, the moment I got on, I realised it's not just me at the front pedalling away. It's a team. and in a way, you don't get cycling on a solo.
And Lily and I have learned to work together in a most amazing way. And you will know, and I'm sure you'd understand that knowing when you just come together and go around a corner doing a deep descent. There's nothing like it, and it's a fabulous buzz. I think some of my personal goals to one side, but I don't feel like I've lost anything. In fact, my goals, because we're a team, are the same as Lily's. It's not my goals or her goals. They're our goals.
15:37 S2
So let's start with the basics. Why should we expect anybody else to talk about their love life when we don't talk about ours? Or. Well, maybe that's too hard. Maybe we can harass each other's partners. Hello, Stephen.
15:51 S7
Good day. How are you?
15:52 S2
I'm good, I am good. I've always wondered, how is it possible to put up with someone like Lizzie?
16:01 S7
Oh, very easy, because she's much younger than I am, and she's full of life and spirit and energy, which sometimes can be annoying as hell.... tongue in cheek!
16:12 S2
Yes, I know I've got to sit across the desk from her every now and again. So yes, I can understand exactly what you're talking about there.
16:19 S3
I am here with Heidi, Sam's lovely partner, and I have to ask, how do you put up with someone as cheeky and mischievous as Sam?
16:27 S8
Ah, well, the secret to that is that you give as good as you get. I was recently out of a long term relationship, so I was a little. You know, when you're just. You're just broken up. You're. You want to party, you want to drink a little bit more. And I'm not the sort of person that will hit on someone. I'm quite shy that way. I come across as quite outspoken. But like when it comes to things like this, I'm quite shy. And this one night I've gone to this club and I've had a few drinks and I'm, you know, like feeling really confident. And I see this really cute guy across the floor. And he was standing by himself. So I'm like, Oh, poor guy. He's alone and he's cute. Let me go talk to him.
So I go there and I'll... keep in mind, there's the club... there's, you know, loud music. I didn't wear my hearing aids because it's too much in a club when you've got hearing aids and the music is so loud. So I'm talking to this guy. Occasionally the lights would flash, I would see his face. I'm like, yeah, he's really cute. So the conversation went on for maybe at least an hour. And I'm not going to lie, when that person said something to me, I wasn't really registering because it was so loud. So I'm still flirting and it goes on and on and on. And then at the end the club is closing, so the lights come on, and it turns out that this guy was actually a lesbian with very short hair, dressed in a shirt and pants. So I spent an hour hitting on a girl who was into girls. When I'm a guy who's into guys.
17:58 S9
Sometimes the bastard you do want drives past because they think, oh, well, nobody's there. There is another bus. Or sometimes it's too hot. And your guide dog. Seeing eye dogs paws are burning and sometimes there are five buses in a row. And even if you get on board the vehicle, what do you do when you can't see a map? Or when the bus driver forgets where you want to get off, or when you just don't know the city, or when honestly, you just don't want to deal with the hassle of I have to plan a trip 24 hours in advance. So I figured, let's use, um, some engineering expertise here and let's put a solution together. That basically means that when you or I or anybody gets to the bus stop, we can just select where we want to go and forget about all those issues of being left behind, being stranded on the side of the road, and grumpy bus drivers.
18:51 S2
Is there anything else that we've sort of forgotten to talk about that you know, sort of come across and gone? This really needs fixing.
18:57 S9
Yeah, well, there are a couple of components, because we're not only just talking about our experiences as visually impaired individuals, we're talking about the experiences from drivers. So if you talk to drivers, the biggest thing is they want to do what's right. They want to help. Yes, some might be grumpy, but most of them want to do what's right but they don't know. And you know, they're driving a 20 ton vehicle with people screaming, yelling, talking inside of it. There is a very complex environment inside, you know, their cabin. So in addition to, you know, us being left behind by buses, us not being dropped off in the incorrect stop.
When you combine the experiences of drivers and the experiences of us and talk to the people above. Oftentimes they don't know that. They don't understand that. Oh, what do you mean you don't want to hold up a sign that says the 100 or the 200 when it's raining? Or, oh, what do you mean you don't want to plan a 24 hour trip in advance, even though it's ten minutes down the road? Well, the concept is foreign to them, so it's just getting the message across of saying, hey, yes, this is a problem for persons with disabilities, but if public transport works, it means that we can do more and more people will use public transport. So this whole cycle of, okay, I got to pay for a $50 Uber to go down the road each day when, you know, let's let's not kid ourselves in terms of employability, persons with disability, we tend to be more disadvantaged.
So how do we come up with $50 every day to catch an Uber? It's just insane. So the problems are what we see ourselves. You know, whether you have a guide or whether you have a wheelchair and you're being dropped off or actually not even are able to get onto a train because they didn't put a ramp down. But the problems are just making sure that the people who run the systems understand that the more we struggle, the more expensive it gets for them.
20:56 S2
So let's talk about the app itself. It's called Halo.
20:59 S9
Halo gives you the option of looking at the bus stops around. You're looking at the buses, trains and so on and so forth that arrive at those bus stops. But the critical components are you are able to a select your disability or your access requirements. So, you know, I use a guide dog, I use a cane, I use a wheelchair, I am a parent with a parent with a pram. I have a hidden disability. I choose not to disclose and then it allows you to select the vehicle you want to get on. Once you are near the bus stop or at the bus stop rather, and it allows you to select where you want to get off and you get alerts as the vehicle approaches.
But the most important part is the vehicle operator. In this case, let's talk about a bus driver. They get an alert one stop before they need to pick you up saying, oh, you know, Sam wants to get on at the next stop and he uses a cane.
22:02 S3
Well, I am joined by the lovely Rina Gotay, who is a co-founder for the Sisterwould haircare brand.
22:08 S10
So when Flo and I initially started embarking on this journey, when it was just an idea, we wanted to do a lot of research, and part of that research stemmed from both of our mothers who actually struggle with visual impairments. Both our moms wear glasses and severely struggle with reading the fine print on products or even packaging in, um, of any kind, really. And that's when we initially discovered, uh, some sort of pain points, and they would constantly ask us to fix their products in the shower, tell them which one is which, because the packaging all looked the same, it all smelled the same, and they were struggling to differentiate the products.
And that's when Flo and I sort of had this little light bulb moment. We thought, look, if our parents are struggling so much to the point where they need our help and it's really affecting their day to day lives because we shower every day or every other day we'll wash our hair. Um, so we thought, let's, let's see if there's something deeper here that we can dig into. And that's essentially when we started doing market research on our own. And then we thought of reaching out to Vision Australia. And after doing that research, we actually discovered that blind and visually impaired people use tape and rubber band glue or hair ties, any sort of tactile element, to allow differentiation of products in the shower.
And we've spoken with various people who are both visually impaired and legally blind, and we kept getting the same response. You know, they buy products, they take it home either themselves or with their caregivers help and assistance. They they do something to the product and add some sort of tactile element to allow differentiation. So we thought it's a huge gap on the market, but how big is it? And that's when we dug deeper and saw that, you know, globally there's 2.2 billion people in the world that have a near or distant visual impairment. And we saw that this number was going to rise by 2050, by 55%, which is pretty big. And in Australia alone there's about 500,000 Australians living with blindness to severe visual impairment. And we thought, you know what, these are big numbers. There's great opportunity here.
And we've watched the beauty ecosystem evolve from being, you know, focusing on inclusivity for different hair types and different skin types and textures and colours and focus on sustainability. And while all that is incredible and the beauty industry has made great strides to focus in some aspects of inclusivity, Flo and I really felt that it is constantly a realm that's exclusively designed for the able bodied human, and that's where we thought, you know, the blind and visually impaired consumers are constantly overlooked and no one creates products with them in mind. And we thought that the evolution of beauty, this is the next step. We really believe that the future is inclusive and that's where it all started.
24:59 S3
You might want to make those adjustments as far as daylight saving in many parts of Australia. Ending this weekend. Someone ringing me to tell me about daylight saving ending. What about as far as the situation with, um, uh... Sorry, I've lost my train of thought. Now, Ray, you're the curator, talk about how this has all come about. As I said, it's a fascinating title. Trance.
25:28 S11
It's actually Trace.
25:29 S2
any of the issues covered on this week's... week is....
25:32 S3
What's it like to pursue a vigil? Vic... vigil. Shut up.
25:38 S2
All right, so before we go, it's Christmas cracker time. I have these magic Christmas crackers. I... two from a couple of years ago. These are the last of their kind. They don't make them anymore. I think the prices were just a little bit ridiculous. So anyway, you grab your side.
25:55 S3
Oh, yep.
25:56 S2
And. Oh, okay. It looks like you've won. Oh, you've got the joke.
26:00 S3
Yes I do. Oh. Let's see. Oh, boy. What wobbles and flies?
26:07 S2
I don't know what wobbles and flies?
26:10 S3
A jelly-copter, right?
26:12 S2
Yep. Okay. That's. That's a joke. All right. What prize did you get?
26:17 S3
I got a Segway. A new Segway.
26:19 S2
That's impressive. All right. Okay.
26:22 S3
After the last one I wrote...
26:24 S2
Well, we're not going to talk about that.
26:25 S3
Oh.
26:26 S2
All right. Let's give this a call and see how we go. And. Okay. And I've got. Oh, another fidget spinner.
26:33 S3
Oh, yay. I've always wanted.
26:34 S2
Okay. All right... what was the joke? Let's have a look. What do you get if you eat Christmas decorations?
26:41 S3
Oh, dear. Oh. Tell me.
26:43 S2
Tinsellitis.
26:45 S3
No... and a fidget spinner. If you ever get bored on your cruise around New Zealand, which I don't think you will, at least you've got something to entertain you.
26:57 S2
Well, the last time we did this, I had about ten fidget spinners. For whatever reason, I tend to always get them anyway. That is a wrap for this week. A big thank you to Peter Greco for adding his wonderful missteps to this week's show.
27:08 S3
And of course, thank you for listening.
27:11 S2
Join us on New Year's Day when we break through the fog of the night before and look at the later part of 2024. Yeah. That rhymes.
27:18 S3
It does. But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience with any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something that we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
27:36 S2
You can email us, studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.
27:41 S3
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our socials on Instagram or Facebook. Just look up RVA Radio Network, we want to hear from you.
27:52 S2
All that remains is to wish you all a Merry Christmas...
27:55 S3
And a Happy New Year.
27:56 S2
Merry Christmas!
27:57 S1
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
