Lily and the Camino Pilgrimage

00:05 S1

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia radio.

00:10 S2

Hola, I'm Sam...

00:12 S3

And I'm Lizzie.

00:13 S2

And this is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view... here on Vision Australia Radio.

00:19 S3

On this week's show...

00:21 S2

Have you ever wanted to go to Spain?

00:23 S3

I know I have. I speak to Lily Piccolo, who recently took a trip to Spain to walk the famous Camino Pilgrimage.

00:32 S2

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this episode of Studio 1, or if you think there is something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and insight may help somebody who is dealing with something similar.

00:46 S3

That's right. You can reach us via email at studio1@visionaustralia.org ... That's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.

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01:06 S3

So this week we are talking to Lily... and for any regular listeners that may or may not remember, we actually featured you earlier in the year on our episode on Tandem Cycling. Lily, it's great to catch up with you again.

01:18 S4

Hi, Lizzy. Thanks for having me. It's good to catch up with you again.

01:22 S3

So before we get into the topic at hand for today, why don't you tell us a bit more about what you've been doing with Paracycling? I understand you raced... in the Oceania Championships in April.

01:33 S4

I did, I did... so, after we did nationals, we went and did the Paracycling World Cup in Adelaide and, yeah, we had a really good campaign there. We placed fourth in the time trial in the TT, which was super fun because it was on a race car track. So that was that was lots of fun. We nearly sort of averaged 40km an hour around there. And we became, we placed fourth, just about 20s behind the Aussie girls. And, yeah, I think the Italians. And then I'm not sure who came second, but, you know, for our first time competing internationally, coming fourth in the world in that particular race was... such a huge achievement. And, yeah, I can't couldn't be more happy. We... gave it a, left everything out there on the track, that's for sure. And then we did the road race the next day, and... we placed seventh in that. 

So, you know, we're really, really happy with how we did there, considering the heat and, you know, not having raced in a and especially in a road race, there's lots of tactics. So we sort of hadn't done that before. And anyway it was super fun and we were really happy with that. And then from there, just a couple of months later in April this year, I... competed at Oceanias. So the Oceanias probably the biggest competition outside of World Cups and they're the Oceanic nations. So New Zealand and all the island nations. And unfortunately we had no competition up there. No other countries had a WB team in that particular competition, and nor did any of the Aussie teams... compete. But we put it down to experience. 

We, I competed with a different pilot. Kelly Wright was my pilot up there because Jay was unavailable. Yeah. And... we got two gold medals. But importantly, we did some good times out there, so we're really, really happy. And it was really nice to be competing with the other Aussie para cyclists as well. So it was a good experience. Yeah. So, since then, just back on the trainer, back on the bike and I, I've just been training towards a New South Wales state and then hopefully nationals in Perth in January 25th. 

03:51 S3

Well, I look forward to seeing you there.

03:52 S4

Look forward to competing against you there.

04:00 S3

All right. Well, we are here today because you have recently - and I followed this very closely - but you have recently taken a massive trip to Spain, and you've completed one of the longest, like, walking trails in Spain. And I believe that you did it with some other vision impaired people. So tell us, where did you go and how far did you walk? 

04:25 S4

Yeah, OK. So... I decided to do something completely different, in... June of this year. So I was speaking to a girlfriend who said she was going to do the Camino, and I actually didn't know what the Camino in Spain was, and did lots of googling and realised it was a pilgrimage. There's lots of different Camino routes, but this particular one is called the Camino Francis, and it's a pilgrimage that, the entire pilgrimage is 700km. And it's a walk. It's a walk from Saint John in France, right across to Santiago de Compostela in Spain. Now, I couldn't afford the time to do the 700km. So I decided I was going to do one of the shorter walks. Not that any of them are really short.

But, so I started finding out how I could do this as a visually impaired traveller... and it, just talk about those things just popping up... and appearing in your life, and they were meant to be because I couldn't believe it. I was scrolling through everything and up came a... company called Traveleyes. They're a UK based company. I believe they branched out into America, and they support adventures for vision impaired travellers all over the world and all different types of things. And you wouldn't believe it. Within the time that I was googling it, it came up just on my Facebook feed and they were doing a Camino walk - and I just went, Wow, they hadn't done one back since Covid and they're doing one in 8 weeks time. And that, I just went, that's just too, too bizarre. I was supposed to find this, so that's amazing.

06:05 S3

Yeah...

06:06 S4

Oh, it was, I just, thought, Well, not only have I found a supported Camino walk, I've found one for visually impaired travellers; and I had heard of Traveleyes before, so had my time working at Vision Australia. I had colleagues that had done Traveleyes tours, I had clients that had done Traveleyes tours. So I knew of them and I knew that they were reputable. I also knew this company was headed up by someone who was totally blind, a gentleman who's totally blind. And they were getting some pretty good reviews about their adventures across the world, so I thought, this is for me, I'm doing this. I contacted them and I... they had - and here's another thing, Lizzy - they had one spot left, and it was for a vision impaired traveller. And it was just, Wow. If that's mine. Okay. I literally signed up then and there. 

So Traveleyes... is a company that supports vision impaired travelers on journeys, journeys and adventures. But the unique part about them is that they pair you with sighted travellers who are your support, so they're not your guide. They have, you are with the tour guide from Travel Eyes, but the other people walking with you or doing the adventure with you are sighted. So... and they're there to support you as a... you know, in whatever way you need. So they will pair you with a sighted traveller, but you don't get the same one every day. You get a different one every day, and you end up becoming a really lovely, you know, family almost while you're walking. 

And, so I did the walk from Sarria to Santiago. It was 120km. There were three, four, five vision impaired travellers, and they have a few more sighted travellers. I think on that particular one they had nine. It's just so added travellers can also, have days off... there were two with low vision like me, myself and (sorry)... And then the other three were totally blind and they were extraordinary, extraordinary women. We're all women. There was only one [?sided trouble] who was a man, and the rest of us were women from all over the world. Girl power. Yeah. So the visually impaired travellers. I had one from... Germany, one from Austria... one from the UK and myself. I was the only Aussie... and, so there were five of us. Where was the... oh, the other one from... the States. 

And Lizzie, it blew me away because these four other VI women were extraordinary. One was an ex-Paralympian cross-country skier, one spoke about six languages and was an interpreter. One ran her own business, one was a high flying exec. And then there was me here doing the Paris stuff, you know, and they all rode tandems, and they all lived really active lifestyles and travelled all over the world. And it just inspired me, and made me realise that this, the world is... I shouldn't be scared of travelling. And I travelled alone. I went over alone. So it gave me so much confidence to to realise that, you know, I could do this as a... vision impaired traveller. And I could do it on my own because there's so much support out there.

09:25 S3

Yeah. So from the time that you decided that you wanted to do to the Camino, to the time that you actually met up with your fellow travelers, how long are we talking between those two points?

09:37 S4

Oh, well... only about three days, in fact. So, I'll talk for a moment about the incredible support I got on the airlines and getting to... because I had to fly from Sydney to Dubai, Dubai to Gatwick, then meet the group at Gatwick to then fly to Spain with them. So that was... by the time I arrived. It was two days later that I met them and I knew that I would need the meet and assist service on the... I'd used meet and assist in Australia before quite, you know, had a cane. Obviously didn't have Tilly with me. My dog. I just had a cane. They came with me. I booked it all through... a travel agent. 

And I said to the agent, I need you to do the research for me and find me the best airline that's going to give to Gatwick. That's going to provide me with the meet and assist. I'm travelling alone. I've got very little vision, and the meet and assist is is going to be crucial because I was I was transiting through one of the biggest airports in the world, which was Dubai. She did all the research. She was brilliant. She got back to me and she said, as much as I'd like to give you an Australian airline, all the research I've done, all the reviews and everything else. She said that Emirates are unsurpassed in their support of visually impaired travellers and. All right, all right. Yeah. Sign me up. 

So, and Lizzie, And, Lizzie, I can't even begin to tell you. And I talked about this when I posted, the support that Emirates gave me from the time that I arrived at Sydney International, right to the time I got to Gatwick. And this is two different airlines, 14, 7, 21 hours of flying. I really can't sing their praises highly enough. They were there with me every step of the way and never was I alone. Never was I without assistance. There were times where I didn't need it, but they were, you know, if you need it, we're just here for you. Even on the airline explaining what was in front of me, you know, showing me how to to use the technology and all that sort of stuff, getting me to the toilet and back and all those sorts of things. And they didn't do it in a way that was, you know, they were, it was like, I had a bunch of friends on the flight. Honestly, it was brilliant. And the ground staff in all the airports, really amazing.

11:54 S3

I had spoken to somebody else because we did an episode about travel, sometime last year, and I had spoken to somebody else who had quite the different experience in Dubai Airport. But I guess it goes to show that with time, you know, there's more education, but also it all depends on the airline you pick.

12:12 S4

Yeah, exactly. And I think it also, you don't, it's... you have to keep sort of saying, Oh just double checking that I've got the assist to meeting me... in Dubai. Yep. And then they'll go off and they would check and they would come back and Yep, there will be someone there, you know, and just... yeah, I was communicating with people the entire time. So I guess a message to people is, don't expect that it may happen all automatically. You do as much as you'd like it to. It's just a question, you know, just a question to the flight attendant or the ground staff or whether just double checking that I've got the assistance going through to the other side. 

I told a funny story as well about, just advocating to for what sort of support you want. So it's... just a given and they don't know what they're going to get at the other, at the other end, they don't don't know what they're going to get at the other, at the other end, they don't they don't know what I look like or what my capabilities are. And when I was waiting at the aircraft door, with the ... Emirates cabin crew, the assist came. She had a wheelchair and I turned to the, with a big smile to the flight attendant, and she said, You're not getting in that wheelchair, are you? I said, No, no, I'm not one, I really need to to stretch my legs because I was sitting for 40 years until I don't really need it. And the lady looked me up and down and she said... no wheelchair. And I said, No, no wheelchair. 

And then she said as she gave the wheelchair to one of her... colleagues. And I grabbed her arm and we started walking through, to do the transit to the other... Dubai airports. Massive. You know, you're getting on little trains and it's about 17 floors high. It's just crazy. Yes. And on her arm the whole time. And she said, Oh, I hope you don't mind me saying, but you're not what I expected. And I said, look... I'm not what anyone expects. And I, you know, I smash a few stereotypes and, but... she said, yeah. And she explained to me what other people are, visually impaired travellers have have been like. And I said, Well, you know, we're all different and, we all have different needs. And, and for me, you know, the vision is... the bit that I need help with. And just having your arm is enough and. Oh, she was so chuffed, you know. 

And she, she really learnt a lot that day. And I think it's important just to communicate with them. You know these are good people. These are good people. You know, quite often a long way from their families to do that job, you know, and, yeah, look, I really did have a good experience, and I'm sure some people don't, but I guess the take-home from this would be just to communicate with people, talk to people, tell them what you need, tell them what you want. Tell them what you don't need. I really needed a coffee. Well, yes. You know, she took me for coffee and... you know, I couldn't help myself when she walked past the Chanel duty free. But I said, Oh, do you mind if I just have a little.... no, no, not at all. Let's go. And I made the comment that only in Dubai airport does the meeting assist take you to Chanel.

15:11 S3

I love that so much, I think. Yeah, I mean, it is important to bust those stereotypes because I know a lot of blind and vision impaired people that won't leave the country simply because they are scared that people don't understand. But like you say, it's all about advocating for yourself.

15:27 S4

Absolutely. And I, truly, and that's why I, you know, I really, really want to get that message out there that we, you know... to explain to people that, you know, we do things just like you do. You know, we, you know, we're not less than anyone else. We just do things differently. You know, that's a bit of my mantra, but I, you know, in that case, I was no different to any other traveller except that I just need a little bit of assistance getting through the airport and maybe seeing what my meal was in front of me. And it was interesting because I was sitting at the end of the row, and there were two other travellers, each side of me, and I could see them looking at me as if maybe for getting so much attention. And why are they explaining what's on her plate and, you know, all this sort of thing? 

And... I actually made the decision to turn to them and say, I just want to let you know that I've got a visual impairment. You know, I'm legally blind. I don't see a lot. So that's why the stars, the tour and they went, Oh, got it. Now we get it. Oh, okay. What can we do to help you?

16:31 S3

Yeah. Oh that's amazing.

16:33 S4

The whole you know, they said, Will you please... especially the guy right next to me said Anything you need, can I help you with. And do you know what, I never used to ask for help, but now I couldn't see the script. Like the buttons on the screen. It's all touch screen. I really wanted to watch this movie that was showing, and I said, can you just help me upload that? Load up that movie on the screen in front of me, and that's all I need. And he went, no way. Bing bing bing bing bing. Hope he did it. And there was, so I wouldn't have been able to watch that movie had I not asked him, you know, or brought a flight attendant over. So it's just being brave enough, I think, to ask for help.

And when I was in, London at the end of the Camino, I was, found myself alone by myself again, because all the other travellers went their separate ways. And I had four days in London on my own, and I thought, Wow, okay, what am I going to do? So I rang a couple of the organisations and I said, look, do you have sighted volunteers that could help me? I just want to see a few of the sites and never been in London before, and I ended up getting four different volunteers, that met me at my hotel and took me to see a few other sites. And that was purely just by making a couple of phone calls and asking. Didn't cost me a cent. 

And it was, yeah. Just, you know, and just when I was kind of, where I was at Buckingham Palace just on my last day, and I was there with a friend that I did meet on the Camino, and she had to go. She said, you're going to be okay. I said, yeah, I'll just jump in a cab back to the hotel because she had to go back to work. And... I'm trying to hail a cab in London, and you know that they're available if there's, because there's a light on the top of them. Apparently. I see the light. Oh, how in heaven's name am I going, am I going to hail a cab down if I can't see, even see if it's available? So I'm, you know, got my cane. I've got my hand up. No, none of these cabs are stopping. And I thought, ah, okay, I'll go have to ask for help now. 

And so I walked up and there was a bunch of men, you know, with a hole in the ground doing some work, and I walked up and I just stood, they're like, Hey, you right, love? You know, very, very English. And I said, No, actually, I can't see the light on the top of the cab, and I need to get back to my hotel. I said, can you hail a cab for me, mate? And he went, No worries. Yeah. No, I said Yeah - and he went, Rightio, hold on. And he whistled, you know, and he blagged this cab down immediately and he opened the door and he said, he said, Listen, mate, he said, I need you to get this lady back to her hotel. You got it. Yeah. And he said, you're going to be okay. I said, absolutely, it's all I needed. Thank you so much. Jumped in. No problem. Got back. 

So you're amazing. Being brave enough to ask people and the amount of people that just also approached me and said, Do you want me to take a photo of you in front of the palace? I was like, yeah, okay. You know, and, yeah, I think it's, you just do need to get out of your comfort zone and... just, yeah, ask for help. So, I also... another little tip in London was, I did some walking tours. Now they were walking tours, not for vision impaired travellers. They were called London Walks. And, you know, people would do those. So I rang them and I said, Look, would there be any chance I could get a guide for this? They said, look, there's only one guide. And sometimes there's up to sort of 15 people in these walking tours. He might not be able to help you, but if you've got a support person, they can do the tours for free. 

And, yeah, so I use those volunteers that I engaged, through Guide Dogs London to come along on these walking tours with me at no cost. And they were so tough because one of them was out to the Cotswolds. Yeah, lovely young lady, had never been to the Cotswolds before. And the guide actually said to me... of the tour group said to me, no one's ever done this before. This is a really good idea. And I said, yeah, so maybe you could in your, in your marketing sort of say you do support people with disabilities and their support person can come for free. Anyway, yeah, that's a great idea. So, you know, it's just thinking outside the box, I guess a little bit.

20:42 S1

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.

20:48 S3

Now the Camino friends say that the trail that you took, you said was 120km long.

20:54 S4

Yeah, yeah.

20:54 S3

Now I'm assuming that you obviously you can't do that in one day. That would be a very long day.

21:00 S4

Yes.

21:01 S3

So how did you break it up and, yeah, what was the trail like? What was the terrain like and how did you navigate that?

21:09 S4

So, we did it over five days. Our longest day was 30km, and our shortest day was 17. I think we would be paired up with our sighted traveller that morning or the night before. You know, we had a Spanish guide and a traveler's guide. She was from the UK, and they would brief us on what we needed to do. And they said, look, we're not going to be walking together. Everyone walks at different paces so you can't get lost on the Camino. There's these big yellow arrows and and scallop shells and everything everywhere, and beautiful little medieval villages that you walk through. And it's a it's a quite a well-worn path, but the terrain is up and down. There's certainly elevation and there's hills and... most of it is on gravelled sort of country roads and all of that. Yeah, yeah. And you're walking through countryside. You're walking through meadows, stoned medieval villages. 

So I would show the... underfoot you've got cobblestone in most of those villages. Very occasionally we would have to walk on a road, which was asphalt, but very occasionally. So you would on that because that's such a popular place. Area to Santiago is such a popular, it's the it's the final leg of the 700 kilometre pilgrimage. So it's ... you know, there's travellers, lots and lots of travellers on it. You know, some that have done the 700 and some that are doing the shorter, shorter ones. But... so you've also always got people around you and everyone's, you know, heading to Santiago, but, you know, there's probably because it is such a popular leg of the pilgrimage. There's a lot of, what they call services or stops along the way, which are the villages and the beautiful, beautiful medieval, you know, country stone-walled villages. They're beautiful. And, so you're probably getting a stop every maybe 7 or 8 K's over your subnet ID and you chat to the other, the other pilgrims, and you're going to, you know, and have a bit of tortilla or coffee or something to drink. And then you head off again. 

And often if you were ahead of the pack, if you were ahead of them or you're behind them, often what would happen is the... you would stay while you were having coffee, the next group would come in, the next couple would come in behind you and go down and they're like, you know, and so you kind of still catching up along the way. And then ultimately when you reach the final destination for that particular day, which was our... birthday or our, or wherever we're staying for the night, we'd all, you know, have a meeting spot and, you know, get together for dinner and all that sort of thing. 

So it was such a beautiful experience just meeting so many incredibly different people along the way, doing the pilgrimage for different reasons. Some do it for a religious and spiritual reason is a Catholic pilgrimage. Some are doing it, you know, there were there were school groups doing it for an excursion, and there were, there were people doing it solo, and there were people doing it because they'd been through some tough stuff in their life. And a lot of people will do it to, to get through things. You know, I spoke to a couple of people that were were doing it for that reason. So a lot of families do.

Yeah, I absolutely love that. Just... on that point, because when I'm going through a hard time, there's nothing that I love more than getting out and going for a hike. Absolutely. And, you know, I could just imagine five days of absolute bliss trekking through, like, medieval Spain.

24:37 S4

Yeah.

24:38 S3

The question I wanted to ask was because you talked a lot about the cobblestones and the the stone buildings and things like that. As a person with a vision impairment, how were you able to experience that? Could you see much of it? And if you couldn't, how did you get around that?

24:54 S4

I had a little bit of central vision left. So, but I my guide was along the way. So they are the, the Traveleyes travellers. They aren't, they don't just they're not just anyone that just goes, Oh yeah, I want to jump on this trip and support someone with vision impairment. They're given... some basic sort of training on how to sight guide, but also how to explain the environment around you. So whenever we had something coming up and there were a few streams and there were a few parts that were quite difficult underfoot, but not a lot... but just where there was a lot of cobblestones or, or stones that were with a stream going over or whatever. But they would speak to me and let me know what was ahead, what was coming up, whether we were going to have a bit of an ascent or a bit of... there was some elevation coming up. 

They would point things out to me in the fields around us if there was going to be animals. There were bikes and horses on the trail. So people will do the pilgrimage on horseback or... well, yeah. Amazing. We saw two groups of, they were incredible. So I could hear them coming behind me. I knew what that sounded like. So, you know, that would say OK and come then. Then they'd say, Oh, look, we've got eight horses behind us, you know, pilgrims on horseback and whatever. So I was, the whole time they were explaining and right at the beginning, each day my guide would say to me, What do you need from me? What can you see? What can't you see? What would you like me to explain? 

You know, and there were times where you're on a big long stretch going through a forest or something, and it's just one big long... and they would say, okay, there's not much. Now we're just walking probably for the next 3 or 4 days. There's not much around. And I'd say, OK, then in this case, can we just not maybe speak and let me just have this moment? I was listening to the birds and I was listening to streams and and there were three girls, three of... the eyes on there were totally blind. Yeah. And and I'm talking to them. So they had to be on their guide's arm the whole time. They chose to be no-canes. You can't have a cane though. It's too rough under. They were... plus we had a walking pole, so I chose one walking pole. It makes you, it takes a bit of the weight out of your legs and so it helps you. I wanted one arm free. I only used one because I wanted one arm free if I had to, if I had to grab an arm. 

And so I mixed it up a bit. I was quite fascinated with how they were doing this. I really wanted to know how they were doing this with no vision and I watched them. I walked with a one particular lady for one time, and I watched her, and I watched her guide, and the guide would tell her what she was going through and she said, okay, take me over to it. So we went through some Celtic ruins in a field and I watched her feel her way around this, these Celtic ruins. And I did it too, because I just wanted to feel what she was feeling. And it was such a lovely sensory thing to do. Same when we were eating, just explaining what we were eating, but some of this Spanish food I hadn't eaten before. So it was, it was a quite a sensory experience and it's quite joyful, actually. It was just quite uplifting. 

And you know what Lizzie, and these other girls would have, ladies would have agreed with me because we were.... you're almost supported with about, like, a bunch of friends. Decided to bless that are that are guiding you. So it's like you're on the arm of a friend, you know? And we were laughing and joking and singing and, you know, so I not for one second and I honestly hand on heart, tell you for five days I not for one second felt vision impaired. I felt didn't feel different. I wasn't different to that pilgrim walking past me with the, you know, the big pack on their back that had just walked 700km. I just was doing it with very little vision. But the experience I was experiencing was exactly the same as that person, was exactly the same as the person that was guiding me was exactly the same. 

Those... because we were all on a pilgrimage to the same destination. I said to the cathedral, which is this being most incredible? You know, Gothic kind of cathedral. It's huge. We're all there together in this, in this, almost like a not an amphitheatre, but a like a big piazza in front of this. Everyone's just having the same feeling, the same experience. We just did a pilgrimage. We just walked. We've done it. So vision didn't even come into it because all the other emotions were so heightened, you know? So I don't think I've ever done anything where I've used all my other senses so much. My tastes, my smell, my my feeling, my all of that. I really tapped into all of that. 

On that, I don't do that a lot because I try and use my residual vision. But it's really weird because I didn't want to this time. I wanted to experience it as a sensory journey and but also just a joyous thing to do, the connection with the other people. I don't think you can, you should ever forget that. The travel is also about that. It's also about the conversations you have and... the people that you meet and the sharing of the stories. And, you know, clearly when we were people were asking us, you know, do they can see and that people because you'd often be walking about the same pace as other people that would you would join with at each of the stops. And we would tell them we were vision impaired travellers and then they go, Ah, you inspire us. And I said, where have you walked from? And they said, Oh, Saint John. And I said, 700km. Yeah. No, you inspire me. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it was... incredible. Really was. Yeah.

30:32 S3

So what would be your message to any other visually impaired person that is, you know, maybe wanting to travel, but a bit too hesitant because of all of the, you know, the sort of things that we've discussed today. What would be your message to them?

30:47 S4

My message would be that don't be scared to do it solo if you don't have... you know, family or a partner or friends or anyone can travel with you, don't be afraid to do it on your own because you're never on your own. Even though I wasn't didn't, wasn't travelling with a a companion, I was never alone. There was always help. A trust in the good of humanity. Trust that no matter where you are in the world, there's going to be someone who's going to lend you a hand. I haven't done a lot of traveling with vision impaired travellers. I've done a couple of things in Australia, but not a lot. But do that research. And even if it's not with travellers or a and there's there aren't a lot of vision specific travel organisations out there. But if not, ask the group you're going with whether there is support. Can I bring a support person? Can I bring a volunteer? Can I can I engage a volunteer where I'm traveling to? 

So yeah, look for those sorts of services. Ask lots of questions. Yeah. Do the research in about the airlines who can support you best. And if you can't, maybe you do you some people may not be able to afford to do the Emirates thing. It is a little bit more expensive. I mean, you don't pay for these amenities, but Emirates is an airline and not your discount one. But if you you have to go for a more... discounted airline then then ask for the support. Make sure you do all that in advance. Make sure, and make sure when you're transiting through airports to all airports, all airports have got on the ground, meet and assist all of them. Do you just need to ask for them? And, and they're there for you? Yeah. 

Look, I just, yeah, I just think it's about, you know, doing the research, communicating, and then when you're in whichever country you're traveling to, maybe connect with the local vision organisation. So for me, I contacted Guide Dogs London and they were so incredibly helpful. And, I'm sure there's in other countries, there's organisations that would be there to help you. And if they can't help you, they would know who would. Yeah. So, just Yeah. Don't be afraid, just do it. Because you will. I was, oh, my God, I was scared out of my wits to do this on my own. I can't tell you I really was the anxiety. But as soon as you... I had the support. All along the way, I had already organised for those those bits of support. I'd already even done a bit of research on the volunteers in London. I knew that I'd be OK knowing there was going to be sighted guides on that Camino. That took all the anxiety out of it. 

And what it allows you to do is then really immerse yourself in what it is, because the anxiety is gone, you know? So, you know, you've always got someone there to help, so just go out and enjoy it. You know, they're doing a it's on the cards. It's not been advertised yet, but a tandem one next year in... the south of France. Yeah. So. Yeah. So that would be...

33:47 S3

Yeah I would be in for that. I would save up the money for that.

33:49 S4

Yeah, yeah. So that would be amazing. And look, they do they do them all over the world. But yeah. So Traveleyes is that organisation - I wouldn't spruik, you know, a company unless I really thought that it was worth it. And I think that's they're definitely worth it if you want to travel overseas. Supported. Yeah, there are a few others apparently out there that um, but and these... blind girls that I... travelled with, I asked them about other companies they'd used and they had used 2 or 3 others over there. But they said, you know, Traveleyes. I'd probably do it the best because it is vision-specific. The others were more ability, right across the board. But this is vision specific. 

So, and you just, I've made so many connections, Lizzie, like, I've made connections. We're on a WhatsApp group now, and we chat to each other and they they tell me on the on the adventures they're going on next and what they're doing. And, you know, I got invited to go on cross-country skiing in Utah next January, over a week that they do an incredible week long... that one is for all disabilities, but it's... similar to Tribalize, except they, it's a different organisation, but they... have sighted skiers, next to you, not tethered. They're just next to you, talking to you the whole time while you're cross-country skiing. I've never done that before. 

35:12 S3

Oh well, that's pushing me out of my comfort zone - but we'd definitely have to chat to you if you end up doing that, because that will be fascinating. But, Lily, thank you so much.

35:21 S4

So happy that I could talk about because it was just so amazing. But, of course, just for your listeners to get out there and and enjoy and see the world or see Australia or whatever you need to do, and don't be scared to travel because it's ignited a bit of a fire in me now to do more for sure.

35:39 S3

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you.

35:44 S4

Thanks, Lizzie.

35:45 S3

And if we, yeah, we'll definitely have to catch up once you've done the skiing trip.

35:50 S4

All right. No worries.

35:54 S3

That's a wrap for this week's show. Thanks to Lily for being a part of the show. And thanks, of course, to you for listening.

36:00 S2

Next week we ask, how do you get about do you plod along with a cane? Do you stride along with a dog, or do you prefer to just make do? We ask a few people how they go about it and well, hopefully find an expert who can give us some more advice.

36:18 S3

But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience with any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or whether you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know. Your story and insight may help somebody who's dealing with something similar.

36:33 S2

You can email the show, studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio, number one at Vision Australia dot org.

36:39 S3

Or of course you can drop us a note on our socials. Just look us up at VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.

36:47 S2

Bye for now.

36:49 S1

Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.