Blind Faith

00:06 Program ID

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.

00:16 Sam

Hello, I'm Sam...

Lizzie

And I'm Lizzie. 

Sam

And this is Studio 1, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view - here on Vision Australia Radio.

00:23 Lizzie

On this week's show, as we're heading into Easter, we explore the role of faith in our lives, particularly how it influences our perspective on living with a vision impairment. How does faith shape our outlook? Especially when we're faced with questions like, Why me?

00:39 Sam

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.

00:54 Lizzie

You can email us at studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org. Or of course, you can drop us a note on our Facebook page by going to facebook.com. Hello, Sam.

01:11 Sam

Hello there. So this is a topic I don't think that our show has covered before. It sort of takes me a little bit out of my comfort zone, but sometimes to do something interesting, you've got to be outside your comfort zone.

01:24 Lizzie

Well, of course, we've stepped right out of your comfort zone and right into mine. I have to say, this is a topic that I'm very passionate about - as someone who is of the Christian faith myself. Now, I will say that we have two interviews, one with Matt and one with Shaleah, and they both are of the Christian faith. But this is by no means, you know, the only faith out there. Of course we have, you know, Australians who are Islamic and Buddhist. So we want to hear from you. If you celebrated Ramadan, if you know you're a Buddhist.

01:55 Sam

I know at least one of you out there who would probably quite be quite happy to... pass on, your opinions on these things? Yes, Zell, I am looking at you.

02:05 Lizzie

Exactly. We want to hear from you. Because in my belief, faith isn't just about one specific religion. It's about faith in general. And how do our beliefs shape our outlook on life? And that's what we're talking about in this week's show.

02:18 Sam

So without further ado, how about we hear from Matt? We'll be coming back to Shaleah a little bit later. But let's hear from Matt first.

02:32 Lizzie

And how have you....

02:33 Matt

Been a bit warm over here in Perth at the moment. It's... somewhere in the late 30s, but I think he admitted he's quite warm.

02:39 Lizzie

Yes, I do love Perth. I was over there in January for nationals and it was absolutely beautiful. But enough about the weather. We are here this week to talk about religion and the role that it plays in your outlook... of your vision impairment. So have you always grown up religious or was it something you came to later in life?

02:58 Matt

Well, it depends what you define as religious. See, with me, I have a Christian faith. So for me, I've been taught that we have a relationship with our God. It's not a a religious experience per se. Well, maybe they're Catholics or things like that. So for me, it's more of a relationship that's developed over time, that I have a personal relationship with Jesus, and he has a relationship with me, and it's more that side of it than doing things in like Catholic saying, Have to watch it, Mary, like the, Say five Hail Marys and three whatever else I have to say and all the rest of it - because it doesn't work that way, because religion's more structured in rules than like a personal relationship as such.

03:43 Lizzie

Yeah, absolutely, I love that. I am of the Christian faith too, and I only came to God like within the last six months. So I'm finding all learning about all the denominations very interesting. But yeah, I just I agree with you that it is a relationship. So did you always grow up having that relationship with God, or is that something that you came to in adulthood?

04:06 Matt

Yeah... for myself, I was brought up in that family... in a family that had a Christian faith. And so when my, when I was born, my Dad was a part of the BrethrenCchurch, which was very stoic and very, almost like Anglican, very, very structured in how they conducted things. And my Mum came from the Salvation Army, which also had structures and also had their things. So when my parents got together and they... well, my... father ran into the Salvation Army because that's what my Mum did. And so my sister, my younger sister and myself all grew up in the Salvation Army. 

And when I was about 6 or 7 so early 80s, my parents and I, me, my parents, my sister and I, went to... Local Church of Christ church, which was a bit more relaxed and didn't have to wear uniforms and things like that. And I'm not saying the Salvation Army don't look good in their uniforms, but back then it was more like that with Burgundy jackets and had different ranks because it is an army. So they had things like Lieutenants and Captains and all the rest of it. So it was very structured. And then we went to the Church of Christ, which is a bit more relaxed, and then we eventually went to other churches. And so most of my life, like all of it's, all I've ever known.

05:32 Lizzie

Were you born with a vision impairment or did you acquire that later in life as well?

05:36 Matt

Well, apparently I was born with my vision impairment, but unlike some people I know, it didn't start appearing until I was probably about 7 or 8. So I was like... when I was about eight, my Mum took me to the opticians because I said, I can't see the ball to catch it anymore. So how long before that I had a vision disability or a vision problem, I should say? I don't know. I can't remember. But when my Mum went to the... optician, she said, I think you need to go to the hospital and see an ophthalmologist because this could be serious. 

Now that me and my Mum was told, um, that he's got lazy eyes. Sorry about it. It was just... Give him some glasses and he'll be fine. So about 9, 10, I started to wear glasses and then they just got thicker and thicker and thicker as I got older and older and older. And then let's say then from glasses to contact lenses and contact lenses didn't work. And then I had surgery to try to correct it. And that didn't... that worked for a period of time and then it didn't work. And now I've almost gone full circle, gone back to glasses. 

But the thing is, with the glasses now, they'll wear... I've only got power enough in one lens. That gives me somewhere between, according to my ophthalmologists, somewhere between 4 and 7%. He can't define it. And that's in my left eye, because that's my best corrected eye. But there is no... vision now in my right eye. It's when they give the surgery, they can look after it. They didn't treat me well with it. I don't know, whatever reason. And so now I'm probably I'm a total, now in my right eye, completely. So basically was looking through one eye at the moment.

07:29 Lizzie

So when this started to occur and you started to lose your vision, being of the Christian faith, what was your parents' attitude towards it?

07:36 Matt

Well, the shocks, I think my dad was shocked more than my mum. And then I think he went a little HTC. I think he went... over-carry, like almost like a helicopter parent. Like making sure that I didn't fall over anything, making sure that there was nothing to trip, give over and try to get everybody to almost, like, coddle them and make sure I... smother me to make sure that nothing could happen. So... my Mum, she was great. She just seems like he's got a... they can do things. He can't just sit on the sidelines - like he wants to play dodge or he wants to do something, you've got to let him. Otherwise he's going to resent this and he's not going to like it. And going up to the Lord and going like, Oh, just move out of the way or do something. 

I eventually rebelled. I didn't want to wear my glasses in... my contact lenses. Maybe. Why my eyes again, not as good as they could be if I listened and wore them properly and do things like that. But when you're a teenager and... most people don't want to... listen to Mum and Dad, and he was my dad, he meant well, I can understand that now. But at the time, he was just like, No, just let me be and do my thing and leave me alone. And in terms with like, faith, you know, again, being a teenager, like, you have to be, like, want to be the cool kid - you don't want to be the guy that people look at and go like, Oh, there's such and such with Coke bottle glasses.

And... I believed in God and all the rest of it. Where is God now? Some people I know, they should be like it was mocking. Mocking. You believe in God and there is no God and all that kind of stuff. And what? God would actually give a person a vision disability. But again, I wasn't defined as disability until after I actually finished high school. So to me, it was just, I was always my... I thought.

09:40 Lizzie

So often I've been approached by like a fundamentalist religion types, religious types, and they've said things like, Oh, there's a reason that you don't have your eyesight and a lot of is attributed to some sort of sin committed on my part. Have you ever had this experience?

09:56 Matt

Unfortunately, yes. Even in the Christian community, because a lot of people, there's a lot of variations. It's like 80% of what we believe is the same. It's the other 20% that could be a little bit skew-whiff or a little different to what we could believe is the majority of the norm. So yes, I've had people who have said to me that, Well, what have you done to... make yourself better and be a better person, or remove this disability or lose the disability, but remove this ailment from you. And I'm going like, I've done a lot of bad things, but what I would deem is bad. But I'm not going to go into that, because that's... personal. 

But I've done things that, well that we're all proud of. And when you've got people that you are now used to respect, saying things like, Yeah, well, you must have done something that untoward. I'm like, Well, my Bible is the story of Job, who had a faultless life. Oh, not not maybe not a faultless life, but he had a a life where everything was taken from him and he still, like, was blessing God and praising God for who he was. Like, even his wife said, Well, curse God and die... like, you got all these ailments, you've lost your family, you've lost your wealth. Like based on dying. Well, what have I done wrong? 

And then in the New Testament, there's a story in the New Testament, there's a story of a blind person, the blind man who was wanting to be healed and then commented, I'm not sure that it was the Pharisees which were the religious law of the time, or his... because of Jesus's disciples, or one of them or both of them were saying, Well, he's in here. And like, what was his mother? Or was it his father or was it himself, I think, that it was, caused his ailment or disability? And Christ said no. Well, then what glory would be given to God the Father, that he will be healed like? But God doesn't heal everyone. 

And that's the thing that a lot of people think that, Oh, you're sick. Okay, you need to be healed and you will be healed if you believe, or not. And at the end of the day, if God doesn't heal everyone, like if you're born totally blind and you know nothing else, they used to say that you, more or less faith than somebody who has some sight or fully sighted. It's like, people still die of cancer that believe. They believe that God will heal them and they still die. You have people that pray for you, like I've had people lay hands on my head with the oil on my head and go like, you will be healed and you will see it again. 

And then I think of people like Graham Laycock. I'm not sure if you know Graham Laycock at all. He was a when he was younger... he was about 8 or 9 that same age as me when I started losing my sight. He got hit in the eye, I think, with a pie tin, like he was playing Frisbee with his friend, and he got hit in the eye with a pie tin, and he scratched his cornea and it got infected. So this is like in the 1940s, I think 30s or 40s or something. So that happened years ago, just under. And he lost his eyesight in that eye. And then it was got, eyes got infected. And then he also lost his eyesight. And that's why he became a totally blind person. 

And he ended up travelling to London to become a physiotherapist and become a physiotherapist in Western Australia where I am. And basically he went around and he goes, Oh well, I can't see. But the next person I will see is my God. So that's something that resonates with me. Like I may not see now. Okay, I've seen better than totally blind people, I get that, but I just having that fact that one day I will see my God and it won't matter that I can't see now.

14:11 Program ID

This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia radio.

14:17 Lizzie

Well, our next interview is with Shaleah. Now, I did speak to Shaleah for International Women's Day, and she had quite a lot to say about faith, so I thought it would be a great opportunity to listen to what she had to say again.

14:31 Sam

Because the interesting thing here, of course, was... you did the whole interview and then it was like, Oh, and we sort of went a bit off topic. Do we use that bit in the show? And I sort of went, No, we don't, because it's not exactly directly dealing with International Women's Day, but this is how we came up with this show in the first place, because I personally don't like to waste material, and this is good material.

14:57 Lizzie

Yes, I agree, and she has a lot of poignant things to say.

15:01 Sam

So without further ado, Shaleah...

15:07 Shaleah

My family's very much God-centred. We're very big on on Christianity. We love God. We love Christ. And my Mum told me the story before that when I was about six months old, they tried to do a surgery on my corneas to give me a transplant, and they told my Mum it wouldn't work because of the glaucoma in my eyes. I have a condition called Peter's Anomaly, which basically culminated in glaucoma and cataracts in my eyes. And my eyes were a little misformed. 

So my father side-stepped out as soon as he realised I had this disability. But my mom was very much involved. My grandparents were very much involved. My Mum's sisters, my aunts, they were very much involved. So when they told her that they couldn't fix my eyes and I would just be blind, she said first she cried and then she heard a voice that said, Don't cry, she'll be fine. I've got you and I've got her. 

And she told me that she knew without a doubt. And this was before she became like a huge believer that it was God talking to her, not to worry - be still and have peace. She said, And I'll be darned if I didn't just suddenly have peace. I was just filled with peace. She was like, And I knew you would be okay, because, like, I was worried about you doing normal baby things like rolling over or walking or... But I did all of it.

16:20 Lizzie

How has your faith shaped the way that you see your disability? Because it's very easy to ask, Why me?

16:29 S5

Oh, yeah it is. God has always been a very big and very important part of my life. And because of that, I never really had time to say Why me? Not about the blindness. My Why me was about other things, life experiences, and even then, coming out of them and being on the other side of them. Now I can say, Okay, this is why me - I know that even things that seem devastating and heartbreaking and terrible and tragic, there's always a positive, there's always a good that comes from it. 

And as long as I can be patient and get through the trial, then when I'm done with that, I'll feel and see and know the blessing, and then I can spread that with I can share that with others. And I love evangelizing. I love sharing my testimony. I love sharing the good news with people. I love, love, love doing it.

17:24 Sam

All right, I'm going to put my cards on the table. I don't have any skin in this particular game because I have no faith in anything beyond this earth. And that means I don't believe in aliens, and I don't believe in gods or God or anything else. And it's not a case of I think a few shows ago Matt was talking about atheism and I... the funny thing about atheism is it's not an ism. You don't actively not believe in something, it's just something that you don't believe in. So I don't try to push my views upon other people, because I came to this decision of my own. And I think that sometimes for anything, whether you go to a religion or you leave one, you have to make that decision on your own.

18:17 Lizzie

So how is that not actively not believing then? If... because you've made an active choice to not believe.

18:23Sam

Well, if something doesn't exist, it doesn't really matter if you believe it or not. And in fact, my opinion as well is, if we have this big, all powerful, mighty being that's created everything, it's not really going to really give two hoots whether I believe in it or not. All it's going to care about, hopefully, is that I am living by a certain set of principles and doing what is right where it's at all possible, so it doesn't really matter to not believe in something. And again, it's a case of there's two things. If I try to talk to somebody like yourself into believing the same way as I do, there's two outcomes. Either I'm wasting my breath, or the worst of the two is that I actually convince you.

19:09 Lizzie

Yeah, I've got to say, the first is definitely... so the case.

19:13 Sam

Here and herein lies... the thing is, some people build their entire lives around religion, and I don't want to rip that away from somebody. So my belief or lack of belief is a very personal thing, and I like to keep it that way. But others have different views, and this is what this show is about, is showing the world that, yes, sometimes we're a lot like other people. So let's continue on with our chat with Matt.

19:40 Lizzie

Thank you. Well, I went on to ask Matt about the gifts that God has given us and whether they are enough to replace our lack of vision. So let's hear from Matt about his perspective.

19:51 Matt

Well, everyone's got a gift, you don't have to have... I've got to use a computer to testify to that. People can use a computer regardless if they have eyesight or not. People can throw a ball. Okay? It may not be the perfect way of throwing a ball. They may not be able to catch a ball, but then again, they can. Everybody can do everything as long as they're given enough time and patience and somebody who's willing to do something with them. So for me, for instance, I'm not working... I haven't worked for let's see, I made the blunders in 2009, so I haven't worked for 16 years now, unfortunately. 

But there are things that I can do that, right? They were amazed because... just because you can't see does not mean you can't do something. You just need somebody who's willing to... if you're willing to give something a go, you have to be vocal about it, too. If you say to someone, Can you please help me learn to throw a ball? And eventually, if you keep persisting with whatever it is, then you will be able to throw a ball and it will be perfect. But for somebody that didn't learn the guitar and he goes like,Ooh, like I'm not perfect yet, I'm like, I don't care - you're playing music. I'm like, it's something you can do. 

My son started so he can see the notes on the thing and all the rest of it. But you have to be willing to be humble and and do whatever. So the only person that's stopping you from saying, Oh, I can't do this is you. So if you don't want to do it, don't say, Oh, I can't do it. Just say, I haven't learned to do it or I'm... what's going to do it all? Well, what if you don't want to do it yourself? Just just keep quiet about it and then just focus on what you can do. So if you can read Braille, great. Like, if you don't want to learn Braille and you think it's a dead language or you just don't want to do it, then just just don't worry about doing it. It's just like it's something you think you think you can do or want to try.

21:52 Lizzie

So this show is airing close to Easter. Tell us about what your plans for Easter are going to be.

21:58 Matt

Oh let's see. Easter... at the moment, my church that I attend has a Good Friday service. 5:00 in the morning. For those that are wanting to wake up at 5:00 in the morning. Not me personally. I'll be trying to sleep, but that's just me. I'm not... a morning person. Unless I have to be. Which I have to be with my two children. And then I think there's a 10:00... service, which is probably the one I'll be going to with my family. And then the rest of the day on Good Friday, just basically just reacting to the family doing things at home. What things need to be done? Just, it's just a normal thought exercise. 

Of course, the public holiday - Saturday - at the moment I don't think I've got anything planned for Saturday or Easter Saturday, so it'll probably be another day of doing exactly what I just did on the Friday. And then Sunday will be again, another service, probably 5 or 6:00 in the morning for that, for the Salvation Service, as they call it. And then for those I've been able to get up at five and six again. So they'll probably do it at 10:00 in the morning, and then the afternoon or lunch will probably be maybe with the in-laws. I don't know what that plan is yet. Or my in-laws, I should say not my wife's, my wife's family maybe, I don't know. Yeah. 

And then Sunday night, for those that want to, they can do another celebration service and basically do the other ones were. So the This is almost the same back to back to back then. Yeah. Your father would be a fool if you don't... then he's just a regular Sunday thing, doing whatever. And then wake up Monday morning and the first day of holidays. Or at least up here anyway.

23:39 Lizzie

So are your church community supportive of you? Despite despite your... visual impairment and, you know...?

23:47 Matt

Yeah. Most of them are. The church that I was attending... before, the one that I, my family and I are currently attending... it's not that they were dismissive. They were... they just didn't know what to do and came to the point where they were going like, Well, we'll just... seems it was too hard for them. Like, I would say things like, Okay, when we do such and such, I need to have this in large print. And they meant well, but part of them will go, Well, do we really need to make like one copy just for you and then like five copies for everybody else? 

I'm like, Seriously? Like our normal print for these group members. And then one latched on to me almost like it was too hard for them to do. Which is not what you're supposed to be doing. And so that and a few other things that came to a head. I don't know, when you're in the church, you're being taught to like, serve, like find somewhere that you can help out and things like that. And as soon as, like the jobs that they wanted me to do were... not that I couldn't do them, but they were more like all I could try putting in the background. 

So then he's actually helping? Yes. But it's not that he's like being drawn attention to. So with that, my wife and I go like, Well, this is not a way of showing God's love and Christ's love. So we are, thank you very much to the church that we're attending at the time and said that... it's time for us to move on because there's no way. I'm like, What? No. They're for my family to serve or myself and... my friends suggested their church, and we've been there since.

25:30 Lizzie

And what do you do to serve your church community, now?

25:33 Matt

At the moment, we're on... my wife and I are going to get involved in the children's ministry. So helping the young kids. So for me, it would be helping with the administration side of it, because that's what I've done previously. I'd like to say I'm proficient at it because, as I said, I've worked for 16 years. That was paid work for 16 years. So for me, at the moment, it's just things like putting names into databases. The kid has a birthday during the week or something, and they're the most, and they can send out a birthday card to that child. A happy birthday on behalf of the church and things like that. And my wife has a education assistant certificate, so she helps out with the kids and helping run the programs and the lessons for them.

26:18 Lizzie

That sounds amazing. Yeah, I'm trying at the moment to get to become a part of the worship team on the music production side, and I'm finding that to be a little bit challenging because I don't know if they think that I wouldn't be capable of getting on and off stage, I'm not sure. We've got a few little misconceptions to sort of battle, but I think we'll get there in the end.

26:40 Matt

Oh, absolutely. And you just have to be, as I say, you've just got to be humble enough and just say, Hey, I can't do this or I have difficulty doing this. I don't have this, I can't. It's like, I have difficulty with this. Can someone assist with whatever needs to be done? But I'm sure you'll be able to do pretty much anything. It's just. Yeah, working out with your orientation is so you're not actually singing to the drama instead of practicing the church.

27:07 Lizzie

That brings us to the end of this episode. A big thank you to Matt and Shaleah for weighing in on this week's episode of Studio 1. And of course, a big thanks to you for listening.

27:18 Sam

You can of course, catch this show on podcast, on all the good podcast platforms and in fact on a few of the dodgy ones. Next week, since we're in the mood for some miracles, we ask, what would you do if a miracle happened and suddenly you could see again?

27:33 Lizzie

But of course, between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.

27:48 Sam

You can contact us via email - studio1@visionaustralia.org. That's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.

27:54 Lizzie

Or of course you can find us on all the good social media platforms, whether that be Facebook or Instagram, by looking for VA Radio Network. We really do want to hear from you guys.

28:06 Sam

Especially after this week's episode. Yeah, this program was made possible with the support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at....[?] Bye for now.