You don't look Blind!

00:05 S1

Sitting at a bus stop waiting to catch the bus, and back then I still had a reasonable amount. I was using the white cane, but at night when I would travel, I'd have a bright LED torch attached near the bottom of the cane so that I could actually navigate down the footpath because I could see the white ball. And I had this woman sit down next to me at the bus stop and start abusing me. You know, you can't. You mustn't be blind. You know, blind people don't use torches, you know? And because I sat there and ignored her with my headphones on, she turned around. Oh, you're not blind, but you must be deaf. That's the nastiest one I've had. And then I had someone trip over my cane just after I'd crossed King William. Of all places. They've turned around, I can clearly say to give me a mouthful of abuse. Realised the cane and then switched languages, thinking ha! She's not going to understand, but I got the gist of it.

00:53 S2

This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.

01:02 S3

Hello, I'm Sam.

01:03 S4

And I'm Lizzie.

01:05 S3

And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.

01:10 S4

This week, how many times have you been told you don't look blind?

01:14 S3

Matthew shares a rather worrying story about how that simple statement can escalate.

01:19 S4

As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something we should be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.

01:34 S3

You can contact us via Email Studio one at Vision Australia. Org. That's studio number one at Vision Australia.

01:40 S4

Org or of course, you can drop us a note on the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com Slash Radio Network.

01:54 S5

They surprised when I tell them I'm totally blind because I move around so well, they must have some preconceived idea what totally blind is. And because apparently I move around so well, they think I must be able to see a little bit. you know. People amazed that I can dress nice, that I can comb my hair. You get that sort of stuff, you know? Do you dress yourself? Is one unusual question I'm not sure how to take. Yes. You get a whole range of things like that, which is demoralizing and insulting for some reason. When they think you can't see that you're totally brainless, clueless, and can't, you know, figure out that, you know, if I've got a shirt that feels rough, that's the black shirt, and if I've got a shirt that feels smooth, that could be a different color. No concept of systems and ways around it, and that you have got a mind and can make decisions on your own accord. Most of the aggression I get is because I have a guide dog and people want to pat it. And if I tell him you can't pat the dog, they get really pissed off and can't quite be aggressive or in summer time, and they want to give the dog a drink of water because they think the dog needs it. And when you tell them you can't, they get highly aggressive. And that occasions where I've had to get security people or in a hotel situation, get the bar staff to have the person removed from the premises so it can get extreme. It's a rare occasion that people get don't like. Um, I think it's because they perceive you as a lesser person. They don't like being told they're wrong. And because it ruins their perceptions, which are incorrect and they don't like it.

03:29 S3

Hello, Lizzie. What's happening?

03:31 S4

Well, we are doing our quarterly clean up, so, you know, there's bleach and fumes all over the place. But apart from that, not a lot.

03:39 S3

Interesting, right?

03:40 S4

What about you?

03:41 S3

Oh, I'm actually pretty flat out at the moment. I've got another project on the go. I might talk about it closer to the end of the show because, yeah, it's been keeping me rather busy. But it's what happens when you start a new radio show, so.

03:55 S4

Very good.

03:56 S3

This is, uh. What is it? Time. We're talking about a statement that can have either positive or negative Ramifications. And nowadays I'm sort of finding it more negative than anything else. Um, you don't look blind. Um, what? Uh, yeah. How do you think about it?

04:14 S4

Well, I know that we've approached this from the, you know, the fashion and appearance kind of perspective, but I think it's nice to just address this again, because it is something that we get a lot, especially those of us that are out and about active within the community and travel quite independently. And yeah, we're going to hear a few stories today from people that, because of their ability to travel independently, have been told multiple times that they don't look blind. I've had it before and I'm totally blind. So it just it doesn't make any sense to me why people would think that. But, um, it raises the question, what is a blind person supposed to look like?

04:54 S3

And that's the thing. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm trying to sort of see what is the classic look of it. Are we supposed to be disheveled? Um, are we supposed to be conservative? Are we supposed to I just don't get it. Um, so for visually impaired people, it is. Okay. All right. Not all of us carry canes. Not all of us, uh, have a have a guide dog. Not all of us wear dark glasses. Um, and, yes, occasionally we can see a little bit. So, um, that I think some people, though, will sort of look at the term blind and just assume that anyone who is legally blind is totally blind. But even I would. Yeah, even even totally blind people cop it because apparently it's it's this terrible thing that we're not supposed to sort of, um, you know, we're not even supposed to be out and about and doing stuff.

05:41 S4

I think also, we're not supposed to have confidence in ourselves. You know what? I would love to get just like a small sample size population in the community and ask them, you know, people that have never been exposed to blind people before. What do you think a blind person looks like? And just get some sort of. Because I don't know. I can't tell you what they're supposed to look like. Like you said, are we supposed to look disheveled or are we he's supposed to look down and out. I mean, please, by all means, tell me what you think a typical blind person is supposed to look like. Because that would be news to me.

06:16 S3

Mhm. Now, um, I've got a fairly recent experience. It wasn't exactly someone saying I don't look blind, but it sort of almost escalated. So, um, me and Heidi were, uh, waiting for a bus, and this seems to happen a lot with public transport for some reason. So we were waiting for a bus at, uh, the big shopping center here in Adelaide. Marion Shopping Centre is the biggest, um, there. So. And I was on my phone and there was a bunch of likely lads sitting, uh, a seat sort of across from us, and one of them yelled out very loudly, why are you looking at your phone like that? What's wrong with you?

06:54 S4

Really?

06:54 S3

Yeah. And so I ignored him, but he kept on asking the question, and I turned around and said, what's wrong with you? And that's when it triggered good full on berserk mode. His friends try basically held him back. We got on a bus and he tried to, uh, um, basically punch the window.

07:14 S4

So are you serious?

07:16 S3

Yeah. Yeah.

07:17 S4

I see. Okay. Are you? Absolutely begs belief because I've never had something escalate like that. But I've heard stories. Not just from you, from Anthony, from other people in the community that are like, yeah, no, people have gone berserk at me because I've given them a smart aleck answer. And I'm like, if you didn't know this stuff was true, like, if you didn't know these people, you'd never think that it would happen. You'd think it's just a movie. It's absurd.

07:44 S3

Well, we're not supposed to talk back and we'll be dealing with Matthew's issue, um, in a few minutes or whenever. Yeah. So if someone's sort of, uh, um, says something we're not supposed to answer back. We're supposed to be helpless. So when we prove that we're not, that's when they get aggressive. Because how can you look down at somebody when they answer back? That's the way I see it anyway, and especially when you're dealing. And this guy was, I think, high on something as well. So yeah, I mean it's um, disability is um, like that in some people's minds. That's the way I see it anyway.

08:24 S4

Yeah. I think it goes back to that whole thing of looking blind and being helpless. There is a certain stigma in society that people with disabilities, like you said, aren't allowed to be confident or aren't allowed to be sure of themselves as able bodied people. I've had experiences and this goes back to the the fashion and the appearance kind of side of it, where I've been in the city with Lacey, my seeing eye dog, and I've gone to an appointment or something. So I've dressed up really nicely and I've put on makeup and my hair is nice and, you know, I've got the manicured nails and all that. And yeah, I've been on a bus and I've either gotten one of two responses, and the one one that I can cope with is people asking, oh, how do you do that when you know you're blind? How do you manage to coordinate colors and do your makeup? I can understand that, and I can reply to that and genuinely comes from a place of wanting to know, like curiosity. But when people have come up to me and said, oh, you can't be blind because you're wearing makeup, or you can't be blind because you dress too pretty or whatever, which I've literally had people say, then there's no way of coming back from that. You either have to answer back or completely ignore them because there's no educating them because they don't want to know something. They are stating what they believe to be fact.

09:43 S3

Well, I'm just going to play a clip from our own show, which is also, I think, part of the problem. And we sort of addressed it in a way because it was a joke. It was when we were talking with, uh, Sean and uh, uh, yes, I'd started with me simply saying, well, he's blind. At least he says he's blind.

10:01 S4

I think he's just saying that so he can get the pension, though.

10:04 S6

Yeah. yeah. Much like myself.

10:06 S7

Are you giving away my secrets?

10:07 S6

Oh, no.

10:08 S7

Ah! Rude!

10:09 S6

Sorry.

10:12 S3

So what it comes down to is. And I think you got some current affairs shows to blame for this one. Some times people assume that it's a good life to be on a pension. Sometimes they assume that, yes, we are faking it because it must be this terrific thing to be getting all these benefits. But, well, I don't think they understand the negative side of it. And to best of my knowledge, there's no black market in doctors making people disabled. I mean, have you heard anything about that?

10:51 S4

Um, well, I mean, my mum always makes the joke to people that the only reason I pretend I'm blind is so I can get the pension. But why would I go through a life of discrimination and misconception, judgement and Patronising talk just to get a pension. I mean, it's ridiculous, but we have Steven with us. Sorry.

11:10 S3

Oh. Steven's arrived. Well, he can come and have a have a chat with us as well. He's been busy cleaning, has he? Has she been working you hard enough?

11:17 S8

Lizzie has been cracking the whip. Don't worry.

11:19 S3

Ah, well. And that's that. I'm not really asking about your personal life, but anyway.

11:24 S9

Yeah. Wow.

11:25 S3

So, Steven, this week we're talking about the statement. You don't look blind. I think everybody's got stories on this, uh, at some stage or another, both positive and negative. So let's start with the positive. Has anybody said it in a nice way to you?

11:40 S8

Um, no. Not particularly. I haven't had any positive comments about not looking blind. No.

11:46 S3

What about the negative side, though? Have you had it thrown back at you as an accusation?

11:49 S8

Yes, yes I have. I was at a supermarket once, and I had to ask a lady to read out the price of something, because it was right down the bottom, and she turned around to me, and she pretty much had a go at me saying, you don't look blind. You're probably just doing it because you want to get the blind pension or whatever. And she looked at me and said, how can you afford to buy that sort of stuff if you're blind? You know, you shouldn't be buying that sort of food or or alcohol or whatever if you're on a blind pension, because I'm basically paying for it for you. And then she went on to say that I instead of asking her for help, I should have had a carer with me or something like that.

12:27 S3

Was this someone from the public or was this someone behind the counter?

12:30 S8

No, this was someone from the public.

12:32 S3

Okay.

12:33 S8

I just just recently, uh, yesterday, I was asking somebody behind the counter, and I had my cane with me. I was very visual, visually blind or visually impaired? Rather very visually impaired. Okay. Is that even a word? Well, it is now. Yeah. And, um, I asked this, um, person. I was working behind the counter. He was like, at this, um, one of those pop up, uh, key cutting, uh, counters, like, in the, uh, in Westfield. And I was asking him if. Because I didn't realise what it was. I said, uh, do you fix phones? And he turned around and looked at me and said, do I look like a fixed phones? I said, dude, I'm visually impaired. And um, if you want a phone repair place, can you tell me where it is? And he gave me the dirtiest look and he pointed across the shopping center. He said, over that way.

13:17 S3

No, I love that one. Yes.

13:19 S8

I think, uh, well, thanks very much. Wait, that's.

13:21 S3

The other one that I often get is, um. Where is such and such? And they go over there. Uh, and so. Yeah. Thanks. And then just sort of go and ask somebody else. That's really the only thing to do.

13:33 S4

We have been out before, and someone like Steven will go and get me a cup of coffee. If we're sitting at a cafe or whatever, he'll usually go up to order. And I've had somebody ask me, is he your carer? And I'm like, no, he's my husband. And they absolutely cannot believe that I could possibly have a husband.

13:53 S3

It yes, it speaks absolute volumes. Anyway, now let's hear from Matthew, who also had some interesting experiences on public transport. We will come back and have a bit of a chat about it just a bit later.

14:12 S2

This is studio One on Vision Australia radio.

14:21 S10

Hello Sam.

14:22 S3

I put the call out on Facebook and a few other media to ask. Okay, what do you think when someone says you don't look blind? And you were the first to respond, now it could be a positive and a negative as far as I'm concerned. I mean, what do you think?

14:35 S11

Oh, absolutely. Like, I've had experiences on both sides of the on the fence on that one.

14:43 S3

So yeah, I mean, I had people at work sometimes and they've forgotten I'm blind and they're throwing stuff to me and wondered why I haven't caught it and things like that. So I take that as a kind of a compliment. But there's a there's a darker side to it, isn't there? And you've got a little bit of a story to tell. How long ago did this happen to you? Uh, probably.

15:01 S11

About a month ago, actually. So not that long ago. Um, So probably just before Easter, thereabouts.

15:08 S3

You were you were saying this was on public transport?

15:10 S11

Yes, on public transport. I was, uh, my story goes that I was, uh, catching a bus with my lovely wife from my local train station to the local shopping centre, and we had an Aboriginal couple. Um, I'm not going to rip on the Aboriginals because they've gone through enough, but this, uh, young, youngish, more, um, Aboriginal gentleman, uh, saw me and I was on my phone because I was checking something out. But of course, like most vision impaired people or people with low vision like myself, I have to have the, um, screen to my face so I can read what's going on, even though I've magnified it and all the rest of it. So I don't use the zoom feature. I use the larger text on my iPhone. So I think, I think.

15:56 S3

We, I think we all do that. I mean, otherwise you risk people being able to look over your shoulder and read what you're doing. So that's my, my, my philosophy for that too.

16:04 S11

Anyway, so I'm catching the bus with my lovely wife to the local shopping centre and I was just checking. I can't remember. I will say message, a text message or something. And this, uh, gentleman and his wife got onto the bus, uh, a little, uh, between the train station and the shopping centre and then said, well, you're not blind. And I'm going like, well, uh, that's not for your place to say anything about that. Um, and he goes like, well, you can't be blind because you're using your phone and blind people can't use phones. And I'm like, well, you're sadly you're ignorant of that fact. And or that's in my head. I'm not actually saying that to him, because I'm hoping that he would understand if I said those kinds of words. Again, I'm not disrespecting all Aboriginal people, but I don't think this gentleman would have. And, um, basically he goes like, you need to stand up and find front another seat. And I'm like, well, I'm sitting here because I'm allowed to sit here because the seats are allocated for those people that are elderly or disabled or people with prams. And this gentleman, yes, um, goes like, well, I want to sit with my wife or my, my girl or whatever he said. And I'm going like, well, I'm entitled to sit here. And my wife started speaking up and goes like, like he's blind and started defending me publicly, defending me in front of everyone that was on the bus at the time without yelling or screaming or anything. And unfortunately, this gentleman decided to use some colorful language, which I'm not going to repeat here, but it was basically to the effect of like, you can't be blind because blind people have sunglasses on and they use canes and they have dogs and things like that. And you obviously don't have sunglasses. Okay. Yes, my glasses tint because that's what I've asked for. Um, so you could not him. So I would say that you could see my eyes, but according to his, um, ignorance, he was basically saying, I don't look bad because I can use a phone and whatever else.

18:20 S3

It's astonishing when people just, um, I don't know where their ignorance is. A badge, really? That's what it comes down to. It's like, okay, I don't think this is the case. So it's, um, you know, this is this is my reality, so you've got to live with it. Um, yeah. How did that end? I mean, what ended up happening?

18:39 S11

Uh, well, the bus driver ended up actually stopping the bus. Um, he physically stopped the bus and said, no, we can't have you guys fighting on the bus. I'm like, I'm not fighting. I'm just sitting here. I'm doing my part to ignore you as much as possible. And, uh, the bus driver said, well, I'm not moving the bus until something happens. I said, well, I will move if he apologises for the the verbal stoush that he or verbal diarrhea that he expressed. I will get up and I'll and then I'll go and he goes like, well I'm not going to do that. Well I'm I'm staying here until something happens. So basically the bus was delayed for I can't say how long because I was actually watching my phone at that time. So I would say at least two minutes. And he goes like, well, sorry. Very begrudgingly said sorry, this isn't fine. And then I said to my wife, um, can you please find another chair for us so we can sit down? So my wife guided me to another chair and we sat down, and then he basically it was only about 2 or 3 chairs away from the front where I was originally sitting, so I could still hear him, and he was still holding his breath, calling me those names that he called me, and a few new ones. And then the bus driver carried on driving down the bus. He got off the bus at the, um, the shopping centre, which sadly was the same place that these this couple got off it as well, got off the bus and then it was on again and my wife lost her crap and basically said like, leave him alone, he is boring. Blah blah blah and all the rest of it. Like really sticking up for me as much as she could. I'm grateful that she did like like she didn't have to. It's the first. And this is the thing is, the first time that she's actually released, the lioness, like, really got into somebody to go like, this is my this is my partner, my husband, my spouse, and basically tried her best to tell this gentleman, um, a new one. And he basically we have more people gather around to watch this. And eventually he walked off with his wife and whatever or whatever and did that. And, uh, I'm going like, it's just not called for like, oh, like people go like, well, what was that about? Because I didn't know. Because they didn't know how long it had been going for. And my wife goes, like they say, my husband's not blind. He wears a vision impaired persons badge. And I showed the people who go, like, if you're not sure I'm blind or not, like, like they I took off my glasses and I showed them that I've got no vision now in my right eye. It's completely clouded. It's completely opaque. So I can't see out of that and try to explain quickly without going into gory details about my vision loss in my left eye. And that's deteriorating too. And most people were like, right, well, like, um, if it happens again, like we're here to try to back you up, I'm like, well, thank goodness it hasn't happened again. But just it was very unnerving. And my wife just she just collapsed. And I'm just going like. Well, all I could do is love and support and just make sure that she was okay. Get her up, get her a drink from somewhere, and, uh. Yeah, it's it's horrendous.

22:16 S3

Sounds. Sounds disturbing. Is this. I mean, has anything like this happened to you before?

22:20 S11

Well, the last time, of course, was when I was, um. Back when? When we did the talk of dope at my dog. Oh, yeah. On the podcast, way back when, uh, when, um, a gentleman, basically, who had some mental issues was basically saying that when I had my guide dog, who has now since passed, um, basically said like, are you like, uh, like you're treating that dog like rubbish, like that dog should be free. It needs to be out in the wild or whatever he said at the time. And so I've had a few times, unfortunately.

22:54 S3

I mean, I don't know about you, but I mean, I tend to prefer to go incognito because I don't get these things. But I mean, unfortunately, I can't avoid it when I'm sort of looking at my phone and things like that. It's it's unfortunate that that happens. But anyway, thank you for sharing your story. Uh, Matt. And, um, well, may you, uh, not look blind?

23:14 S11

Yeah, well, I'll try not to, but it's a bit hard when you need a Braille mirror to show yourself every morning.

23:26 S3

The problem? Well, it's sort of problematic. I'm trying to find the right words to go with. It is because the gentleman in question was indigenous. And in Western Australia. I noticed this when I was living there. Uh, the indigenous people are not exactly treated well even to this day. There's, uh, a lot of racism going around. I know friends of mine who have moved to Perth from Darwin, for example, and they've said this is the first time they've ever encountered true racism. So you've got otherwise disadvantaged people who are being treated rather badly with a chip on their shoulder, the size of Tasmania or thereabouts. So the first thing that often and we'll find this, um, when people are having problems with, uh, this kind of thing, they'll see somebody else who is more vulnerable than they are. And it's an open invitation to bully somebody. That's the way I sort of see it. I don't know if you've encountered the same issue. I mean, have have you encountered the same problem from people who, in theory, should know better?

24:31 S4

Yeah, actually, I have definitely. I would have to say younger people should know better. Um, because there's a lot of education going on in the schools today about people with guide dogs and blind people. I mean, guide dogs here in SA basically do this thing all the time where they take dogs to school. And yet I've had teenagers and younger people accused me of basically, uh, faking my vision so I could get a dog. Yeah. And it's like. But do you know better? You know why these dogs are needed? And I don't know what makes you think that I would be faking my disability? I mean, I've had old people patronize me and and things like that, but, um, those were the only ones that I could say should know better. I've never had indigenous people or people of different race pick on me. Um, I've never had anything escalate, so I'm quite lucky, I think. I don't want to say it's because I'm a female, because females definitely get it a lot as well. But the people with the most absurd stories in, in my point of view, that the ones that I've heard are all blokes, like, they just seem to attract more aggression, which is not good.

25:38 S3

I'd suggest that being a woman, it would be more people trying to take advantage, because that's the way they see the female role.

25:47 S4

Oh, definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Yes. I've had people, um, definitely try to lead me astray. You know, I've been touched inappropriately on public transport. I've had people. I've had somebody follow me home. Yeah, again. I think you're right, because I am seen as more vulnerable and because I'm a small female, people tend to. Yeah, like you said, take advantage. So generally when I get the you don't look blind statement, it is more on the positive like, oh you don't look blind. How do you do that more than the negative. And if I do get the negative, I mean, I, like other people, have stood up for me before, so I haven't had anything like that escalate. But yeah, I've definitely had my share of scary incidents.

26:35 S3

Well, with that slightly dark ending, that is a wrap for this week. A big thank you to Anthony, to Alex, to Steven and Matt.

26:46 S4

And of course, thanks to you for listening. That includes our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. As usual, you can find a podcast of this program on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite podcast platform.

26:59 S3

Next week, have you got any makeup tips? I don't, but.

27:02 S4

I don't know, Sam. you'd look really good in a nice shade of red lipstick. Anyway, luckily for our listeners, we'll be catching up with Storm Menzies from Bystorm Beauty and some of our ladies. Yeah, definitely just the ladies will share their makeup tips.

27:18 S3

But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio One, or if you think there's something we should be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight may help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.

27:33 S4

You can contact us via email at studio One at Vision Australia. Org. That's studio number one at Vision Australia. Or of course, you can find us on all of the social media platforms like Facebook or Instagram by searching for Viva Radio Network. We want to hear from you.

27:52 S3

This program was made possible with the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation.

27:56 S4

Find out more at.