00:06 S1
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
00:14 S2
Hello, I'm Lizzie.
00:16 S3
And I'm Sam.
00:17 S2
And you're listening to Studio 1, Vision Australia radio's weekly look at life from a blind and low vision point of view.
00:22 S3
This week it's International Guide Dog Day. We ask, what would your dog say if it could talk?
00:28 S2
We also chat with Lester Craim, the client services manager for Seeing Eye Dogs, and Lisa and Anthony share their experiences as guide dog handlers.
00:37 S3
As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experiences of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help somebody who's dealing with something similar.
00:52 S2
Please contact us via email at studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org. Or of course, you can drop us a note on the station's Facebook page by going to facebook.com, Comcast network.
01:09 S3
Okay. Happy Guide Dog Day, Lizzy.
01:11 S2
Happy International Guide Dog Day, Sam.
01:14 S3
And yes... as we can see that Lacey cares a lot about it. I think she's already gone to sleep. Is that her snoring in the background?
01:21 S2
Yeah, I think so... I don't know. She, since she's retired, she's living in the lap of luxury, like, sprawled out all four legs and arms out at all ridiculous angles and just enjoying herself. I have to say, though, that her life hasn't changed much in the day to day - because there's still a lot of places that, like, know her very well because we've gone there regularly, so she still comes to church with me, she still comes here, she still goes to... the other places that I volunteer at. And they all love her. So it's not like, you know, her daily outings have dropped significantly.
01:59 S3
She may not have got any special treats for... International Guide Dog Day, but she's certainly got a lot of treats on Friday, didn't she?
02:05 S2
Yeah, we had the Anzac Day barbecue at our place. The yearly tradition that we we do, and yes, a lot of people decided that it would be a perfect opportunity to feed Lacey. Either that or Lacey pounced on her opportunity to get food from people, which is fine, because, you know, um, no longer having to deal with the ramifications of having a dog with a upset stomach while trying to get her to work the next day. So, you know, it's not as big of a deal as what it would have been if she was still working.
02:36 S3
Well, yeah, I told you the story off air when... a friend of mine had brought his almost new guide dog around to my place. And at that stage, I still had Max the Wonder Dog, I could call him. He was a half-breed fox terrier, blue heeler, all sorts of stuff. He came from Darwin. And yeah, the dog had a bit of fun out in the backyard, digging up all of Max's bones and chewing on them - and apparently had the runs for the next three days afterwards, so that for you would not necessarily be a problem because, well, it's a problem for your backyard, but it's not really a problem for just getting around with a guide dog.
03:13 S2
Yes. In saying that, I've also had similar situation where, you know, I've been to someone's house and other people have fed Lacey, or she's gotten into something and yeah, I've had to deal with the ramifications of that while we're working... yeah. There was a particular incident in a train station, but we won't go there.
03:31 S3
Mm.
03:31 S2
I think Lacey would be too embarrassed.
03:34 S3
If you are listening, maybe for the first time, or haven't caught up in our conversations in the past about how guide dogs sometimes behave... they're not perfect. They're essentially dogs. They're well trained dogs. And we're going to go into that... this show. But they are still dogs. And dogs do misbehave. So tell us a little bit about the first person we're talking to.
03:56 S2
Right. Yes. We're going to be talking to Lester Craim, the client services manager for Seeing Eye Dogs. Now, before he was a client services manager, he was an instructor, and he actually looked after Lacey and I for several years of our journey together. A lovely bloke, wonderful to talk to, and he tells us all about the life of seeing eye dogs, how much it takes to raise a dog, and all of the ins and outs that go with being a seeing eye dog handler.
04:23 S3
We'll also be catching up with Anthony and Lisa. Some might have heard of Anthony. He was a former judo player at various Paralympics gone by. In fact, we shared a flat back in Barcelona back in the day. Didn't... well, there was a few of us in that flat. There was... but I, actually that was the same year I shared a room with Ed Holicky. So yes, it was... all us blinkies in together. Good fun.
04:47 S2
Lovely.
04:48 S3
Anyway, on to Lester.
04:53 S2
So tell us, what's your role at Seeing Eye Dogs Australia?
04:56 S4
I am the client services manager.
04:59 S2
Okay. And how long have you been in that position for?
05:02 S4
Oh, in that position probably about six years or so now. And... the ten years before that, I had been practicing as a senior dog instructor.
05:14 S2
So what made you want to become a senior dogs instructor in the first place?
05:18 S4
I think the very first attraction was the dogs, the work with the animals. And then... the more I was got involved with that, then the more I understood about the, you know, the role of the dog with the person who is blind or low vision and the actual training with people and getting to enjoy that. And I think that in, in many ways, that's a more satisfying part of the job to, to work with people at the end of the day. And then the more we practice as well, it's the type of job that, you know, very much.
So the two days are never the same and fairly varied in what we do, the people we meet, where people live and Australia being that kind of example. And at Seeing Eye Dogs, we get to travel a little bit. People are all over the country. And so it's it's been. Yeah, it's been great.
06:08 S2
Fantastic. Tell us about the assessment process. So if someone comes to you and says I'm interested in applying for seeing Eye Dog, what's the process from there?
06:17 S4
We will usually have a first chat with the person. One of our instructors will have a first conversation with the person to understand what they want of a dog, what they, and sometimes what they know about dog mobility. Sometimes people don't don't know a lot or sometimes people have. There are a lot of misconceptions out there. You know, the dog is perfect and the dog is, uh, does everything. And people just kind of hang on. And so we we navigate that conversation early on. And if everything seems to be on the... right track, we will then send an application pack and whatever format people prefer to receive that information. And that contains some, some more information. Then we request that there's a couple of forms in there that we want to receive back.
When we receive back those forms, we will... then again, one of the structures, one of our service providers will get in touch with the person to organise a face to face visit for a more formal we call it assessment, but it is a conversation is gained and all the information that we need to to really understand the person, what they do, what they don't do, how they get out and about now, how their current independent mobility is where they go, how they do it, and obviously provide a whole more of a whole lot of information that about working with the dog. And then we go from there.
07:43 S2
And as far as the qualities that you look for in a dog and a person to make sure that they match. What sort of qualities are you looking for?
07:49 S4
Yeah, matching. Well, it's I keep saying it's probably one of the, if not the hardest thing that we do in this job is this arranged marriage of sorts. We know the dogs fairly well. We've had the dogs for well overall for over a year and a half. You know at least. But we also try to obtain as much as relevant information as we can about the person and their needs so that we can make that really as, as best decision as we can. And most of the time we do get it right. We are always very open with people that there is there's very commonly a level of compromise. You know, someone of course wants they need what they need and they want what they want. But... it's rare that we can get 100% right and perfectly every single time.
So how much can the person adjust? You know, how much can the person... work with... the dog, with... if the dog offers, say, 90% of what they need, can can we talk about these other, this other 10% and you know, as an example, but it is, it can... be tricky. We know that it's very important, the dog as a mobility tool. People will be walking a lot. And so the walking speed is a big one. Making sure that we we hopefully get that speed right. The dog is not too slow or too fast for someone, and that the dog is... the right fit for the person's, for most of their... environments.
And so what's their home life like and what's their what environments are they working in? Are they going to the city, for instance? Are they using public transport on a regular basis or they live somewhere that may be a little bit quieter? Maybe there is no or it's very rare, occasional public transport involved and different types of things that it's it's a it's a quieter environment and we have dogs that fit all those profiles. And so because we of course know that we have clients who, uh, live in all different areas and have different needs. And so trying to find the, the right fit every time it's. Yeah, it's it's very interesting.
09:59 S2
So how long does the training process take? Not just for... the dog itself, but training the handler and the dog together.
10:07 S4
The dog I mentioned before - a year and a half. That first year of the dog's life, they will be with, well, the first couple of months of their life, they will be in, in the breeding centre, in the puppy centre. Most of our dogs are bred. We breed them, and they are born here in Melbourne, and they will spend those first eight weeks there. From the eight weeks until 12, 13, 14 months of age, they will be then uh, with the with a volunteer person or family sometimes who will be raising them, the puppy, the puppy care and we call it, that's the socialisation stage. It is definitely training. There's, and there's a staff member from our puppy team who supports the volunteers.
And we want the dog to get used to the world in a... very summarised way so that they are, at that age, at the, say, 12 months of age when they come in for training. They for formal training, guiding training that they are the the world environments are not going to pose a surprise or an additional stress to the dog. And so then we spend another five months, more or less five months with the dog, with one of our instructors or trainers providing that guiding training specific for the dog to become a seeing eye dog. And then the very last month we say a month, we reserve a month more or less, but it's typically between 2 and 4 weeks that the also an instructor who are our service providers will spend with the client, with the handler and that new dog providing the training that they need.
And that training can be at the person's home and in their own environments from from day one. Or they can they sometimes come to Melbourne and stay in one of our residences here for... a week or two. And then we also do in those cases, we also do a period of another, usually a week at home, doing that last bit of the adaptation and settling back home.
12:07 S2
I imagine being a carer is a popular thing that people volunteer for, right?
12:11 S4
It is, it is. We always need more. But it is... we breed over 200 dogs every year, so we need...
12:19 S2
Wow.
12:19 S4
... a fairly high number of volunteers on a regular basis. Sometimes, perhaps for different reasons, the pups need to move, you know. So we need way more than just, I dunno, just 200 people is a lot, but we need hundreds and hundreds of volunteers and we've been lucky. But we always yeah, we always need more. It can be hard as well. Of course people sign up understanding what they're signing up for and they know the dog is. Ultimately, if the dog is successful, they're going, you know, to do a good job for someone, but it's still hard to raise a pup and for for an ear and then have to return them.
And sometimes people are really, really enjoy the raising of the of the young dog. You know that they... don't actually, don't want to to have to worry about an old dog. So they just they... enjoy that those initial stages. And so they when the dog turns about one and they hand them back to us, they get a new puppy and they restart the cycle. And it's... great and it works for everybody. It works really well.
13:19 S2
That's amazing. Yeah. Lacey's puppy care still keeps in contact with us, right? Right. She used to send me videos of Lacey as a pup. She was a bit of a stirrer, right?
13:30 S4
Yeah. In the last few years, we've been trying hard to make sure that we know that we. We keep saying that it takes a village to raise one of these dogs, and we know that it's important, as I said, people signing up for a reason. But we know that it's important for the people who are doing the for the puppy raisers to actually have closer contact with this with the end result. You know, when things go well, the dog makes it as a seeing eye dog that when cases like yourself that if people can be in touch with the volunteer, we know that's really powerful so that people really connect those those dots.
But even when that doesn't happen, you know, we have other ways to keep people to to make people aware of what's happening. Maybe it's not their dog. Maybe their pup didn't make it as a senior dog. But the that people understand what the... the goal is or the journey is. So that's we know that's... a really powerful motivator.
14:25 S1
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
14:31 S5
If I say loud enough, do we get to go home?
14:34 S6
Oi oi oi oi. I did what you asked. Where's my treat?
14:38 S3
A couple walking and holding hands. I must split them up.
14:42 S7
I know where to get a treat by taking you to the Bunnings sausage sizzle. When that's done, I'll take you back to the pub, give and take.
14:51 S8
It's incredibly unfair that that pet dog is allowed to charge the fence and bark its tiny mind out at me as I walk by - while I have to act like a professional.
15:02 S9
More food please.
15:03 S10
There's a dog. There's a dog, I want to play.
15:05 S5
To the pet dog walkers who insist on those stupid retractable leads - please, please, please just don't.
15:13 S6
More food. Please. I'm so hungry.
15:17 S9
No, no, don't pull me away. I really wanted that half-eaten muesli bar on the floor. And all those leaves blowing in the wind looked good too. Are they food?
15:28 S10
What do you mean, you want to go to the hairdresser? I could have sworn you said the pet store.
15:34 S11
If I walk slowly enough and sigh loudly enough, will we get to take a shortcut home?
15:40 S6
We've been together eight years. And you still don't know left from right!
15:44 S5
All people in this city walk way too slow.
15:47 S10
So many sniffs, so little time.
15:50 S11
Of course I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
15:53 S9
Everything is about me.
15:55 S10
If I look cute and give you the big puppy eyes, then will you give me food?
16:01 S11
Let me just stop by this tree. I need to sniff around a bit. I'll only be ten minutes.
16:06 S6
Don't tell me I know, I know, I know I can find it without you there. Told ya. Now where's my treat?
16:13 S10
It's such hard work being adored by so many people I've never met.
16:17 S12
More food please.
16:23 S2
It's very interesting, isn't it? Sam, we asked a lot of people what they think their dogs would say if they could talk, and we were inundated with responses. So once again, thanks to the members of the Guide Dog Handlers Australia page. I have to say, if Lacey could talk, I think it would be a combination of several of those things probably. You know, she would scoff at the slow walkers. She also doesn't like people walking 2 or 3 abreast and feels that she must split them up. But she's also obsessed with food, so I feel like her comment would be When do I get food? Why are we walking so slow? And why do you people have to walk three abreast?
17:05 S3
I'd also add a few choices. I'd also add a few choice comments about steps because we have to go up and down steps all. Each time there and she's managed to nearly run you down. At one stage and always steers automatically towards the lift as well.
17:18 S2
She has tripped me down a flight of stairs in our younger and... our younger days. Yeah, I think Lacey has an aversion to stairs and hills too. I don't... understand.
17:27 S3
All right, so let's hear from Anthony and Lisa.
17:32 S2
Happy International Guide Dog Day.
17:34 S13
Thank you. You too. Thank you. So I wanted to ask, how long have you both been guide dog handlers for?
17:41 S14
Well, it's... been working dogs for about 40 years. I'm on guide dog number six, so it's been a... well, the majority of my life nowadays.
17:49 S13
And, Lisa, I got my first guide dog back in 2014, and I'm on my second guide dog. It was a little gap in between when I had my son where I did get a dog. So it was over ten years now.
18:01 S2
So. Anthony, what made you want to become a guide dog handler as opposed to using the cane?
18:07 S14
Very controversial subject when I lost my sight. Quite often it's harder on your parents and family because I lost my sight at the age of 17 in a car accident. And family tend to be more effective than I was at the time, and my parents more or less pushed me into having a guide dog. I'd never really thought about it. I was getting around quite well with the cane, but like a lot of people, they they think people can't aren't safe by themselves using a cane. They think the dog is the answer to the solution. So I was... more or less pushed or coerced into getting a guide dog.
And, much to my amazement, I found that guide dogs can't do quite what the general public or what my parents thought they could do. So... that's how I... got my first guide dog. It wasn't necessarily my idea. It was because people had negative attitudes about blind people as individuals. The reason was, I was pushed or coerced into getting a guide dog.
19:04 S2
And what about you, Lisa?
19:05 S15
I had an opposite experience to Anthony, in the sense that the family was a bit more resistant to me getting a guide dog. After years of being using a cane. But for me, because I actually have a high speed of walk which averages around about six kilometers per hour, the cane wasn't really doing the alert soon enough for me. So the cane would hit an object and I'd hit it very quickly afterwards. So not enough reaction time for me, where obviously a guide dog can see the obstacle much further out and just walk me around it. So I found that was more advantageous for me.
19:37 S2
So, Anthony, going back to what you said about you, like your family's misconceptions, I guess, or their attitudes and of you being safe with a guide dog... do you feel like the public received you better? Do you feel like people were more willing to give you assistance, or nicer to you?
19:55 S14
I think with the white cane, people have more pity for you for some reason or other. There's something about the white cane the general public have a different attitude towards with the guide dog, having a guide dog. What you find is people won't necessarily talk to you, but they'll talk to the guide dog, you know. You know, if you ask for directions from somewhere, I've had people actually talk to the dog and give the dog the address, as if the dog would understand where 44 Grenfell Street would be, which is quite amusing. So completely two different responses from being a cane user and a guide dog user.
Also, I think the guide dog is a good icebreaker. So you tend to meet more people through the dog is a good way of meeting people, especially if you do a lot of travelling. So... whereas the cane people, they get a bit, I guess, either ignored or thought upon less, I would say.
20:45 S2
Lisa, I know you've had the opposite sort of reaction, where you've been out and people have approached you because you've had the dog. Is that right?
20:54 S15
Yep. A lot of people actually do tend to try and invade your privacy, I guess, like if I was any other person on the bus sitting on the bus, most people would ignore me. But because I have the dog, everybody wants to talk to you. And sometimes, you know, I'm happy to interact. But there are other times, like anybody where I just want to sit on my own, be within my own thoughts. And it's difficult sometimes when people keep going to ask you about the dog.
21:19 S2
What do you think are the public's biggest misconception when it comes to guide dogs? Like, what are what are some of the biggest beliefs or stereotypes that the public have that just aren't true?
21:29 S14
I think people think the dogs can do more than they're capable of, that they think you just give their dog the address and hang on. And when the dog stops you, they're right and it's not quite how it works. You have to direct the dog. Probably the other biggest myth, I think, dogs can do traffic - tell you when it's safe to cross the road, and they clearly can't. And the general public have no conception or the thought, they'd never even think that it, that actually the person that's blind, it's particularly when it's safe to cross the road, and that's usually at light crossings and things like that a lot easier nowadays with those audio tactile crossings.
And so I would say the dogs doing traffic is probably the biggest myth, followed by that the dog can do anything you ask it to. Boy, giving it directions that are define it, which is not true. I've even had some people think the dogs get the... if you want to get the shops, you can just tell it and I'll grab the can of baked beans off the shelf and get it for you, which is, of course, not true. So lots of... unrealistic expectations I think people have.
22:32 S15
I didn't know dogs could read.
22:33 S14
Neither did I. Yes.
22:35 S2
Lisa, you know, I've actually had this conversation too, because I believe you've had issues with the NDIS because they'll either let you have a guide dog or a support worker. Talk us through that.
22:46 S15
So... a while ago, when I was fighting for a plan that I needed for NDIS, when they'd given me the funding to get the guide dog. They said they were going to take away the Community Access Support one. So the support, our support worker to take me out to do shopping and all that. And when I actually questioned him like, Why? And they're like, Oh, well, you got the guide dog. And I'm like, the guide dog cannot help me. They're like, Yeah, but they can walk you around the shops. I said, yes, but it cannot find the baked beans in the middle of all these cans. It cannot find a shop that I don't know where the shop is.
And it was quite frustrating to have to talk to an agency for people with disabilities about something like this, because they had absolutely no idea how the dog worked. I had to explain to them that it's basically a replacement of a mobility aid. It is not a replacement of a human.
23:35 S2
That's true. I mean, Lacey's got no clue about low carb products. Or...bargain hunting, mm.
23:40 S15
Or making sure you get the no sugar diet drink or whatever it is.
23:44 S14
Yeah, it's just straight to the dog food.
23:45 S15
Yeah, but the only food they understand in the shops. Yeah, right.
23:51 S2
So last question... Do you have any heartwarming or funny stories that you can share with us about your experience with dog guides?
23:57 S14
I got quite a few, but probably one... I was hitchhiking around Australia with my first guide dog and was hitching late at night somewhere over the high plains there, and my guide dog was a union orientated dog, so that meant he knew guide dog work well and he only did guide dog work, no protecting the owner if there was danger. And it was late at night, I was hitching and I heard something creeping behind me. Like after a while it was definitely stalking me.
And I looked at my guide dog for support, hoping he'd turn and start growling and, you know, doing that protective behaviour. He curled up and went to sleep, and I was left to my own devices. And then when I felt the breath of this thing touching my shoulder, I was in sheer panic and went, turned and grabbed it. And as I did, I heard a big...
24:43 S2
Oh my goodness.
24:43 S14
And it was a horse that had got my scent and came up and... my dog slept through the whole interaction. So it was quite a comical thing. And he did guide's work, and that was it. What about you, Lisa?
24:54 S15
I don't know about any heartwarming stuff with him, but... there was an instance that he did his job, absolutely. So. Well, I was actually at the... heading to the hospital, and I was walking around along the pedestrian area, and the pedestrian area does not have any gutter or anything to differentiate between the pedestrian and where the cars go through for where they drop off and pick up. And as we're walking along, where the tactile part is, which is obviously where somebody who's blind can tell the difference, a car had... must have been coming in fast or whatever, but came straight through between two cars.
Floyd had actually spotted it and just pulled me back. Wow, out of the way of that car. And like, this was seconds of reaction time he did that for. And the other special thing I like to brag about with Floyd is that I've actually taught him how to use talking buttons to ask for what he needs. So I have a button at the back door for him to press when he wants to go toilet. So it goes busy, busy. I have one on the fridge which says Treat please, and one near his dog food where It's time to eat. He reminds me and presses. Hungry? Yeah.
26:02 S2
Do you think that he goes to the Hungry button the same time every night or...?
26:05 S15
Yeah, he has that clock working so well he knows exactly when to remind me. Doesn't mean I feed him right then and there, but he knows to remind me.
26:14 S2
I think most dogs know when their... bellies are empty. So if your dogs could talk, what would they say?
26:21 S14
More food please.
26:23 S15
I don't know, judging by the look on my dog's face half the time, I swear he rolls his eyes a lot, so he's probably going Stupid humans. Yeah.
26:31 S16
I like that.
26:34 S2
Isn't it interesting, Sam? I think if any dog spends any length of time with a human, they're often baffled by our behavior, just as we're baffled by some of theirs.
26:42 S3
Well, considering that, yes, they have to be taught to communicate verbally, they most of their communication is actually... sign language. I mean, when a dog barks, it's just saying Hey! or Oi! Mm. Anyway, let's go back to our regularly scheduled interview and the question that we ask. It's kind of the old John West question: What happens to the ones that get thrown back?
27:07 S2
What happens to the dogs if they don't make the process of becoming a teen idol?
27:12 S4
Yeah. The majority don't make it. It's a really high bar that we... set for... our dogs in terms of physical health and in terms of temperament and behavior. The very first thing that we do with dogs that are not going to make it as training dogs... for ourselves, is that we will assess them for potentially other assistance animal roles. We don't have other assistance dog programs ourselves, but we have partner agencies who do. And so we will do an internal assessment if we think those dogs fit the profile that our colleagues in other external organisations are looking for. If they are, then we'll be in touch with those agencies and say, Hey, we think we have a dog, you know, and then follow through that process so that they can eventually go through their own assessment.
And we have then placed or our colleagues have in other agencies, have placed a number of dogs every year that don't make it as dogs, but they're still doing a job for for someone else in a different in a different walk of life. If dogs are not suitable for another type of work, then they will be. They will typically become a pet, either with it's common that they will, uh, the family or the puppy raiser will choose to adopt. And when they don't choose to adopt, we have a an adoptions team and they will go to what we call public adoption. Yeah. And there is a, yeah, it's an incredibly... competitive area of our business and people always being really interested in adopting those dogs.
The dog might be, like I said, because of that high bar. The dog might actually be a really healthy dog, you know, and that has gone sometimes through has received quite a lot of training. But we for one reason or another, he's not going to cut it. Let's say it's too sociable and really enjoys is always getting too distracted by other dogs or by a number of stimulus that could be happening in the environment, and that's going to stop them being a safe and successful dog. But they would still potentially be a really nice pet for someone. So it's yeah, it's really interesting.
29:21 S2
Well, I can understand why it would be popular because they've already been through like some amount of training. So you don't have to take them to puppy school or all this sort of thing.
29:31 S4
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes they can... even during that first year, the dogs, we might see things that will make us make the decision, you know, fairly early in that we don't think we always, of course, put a what we call it a training plan. And so we will take steps to... see if we can influence what we're not... you know, what's not being so good that we've seen about the dog. We will put things in place. We'll give them a number of weeks to see if they turn around and give every dog the best chance to to eventually, hopefully become a seeing eye dog. But it doesn't happen that way. So then we just want to focus our resources on the dogs that we think will make it.
30:09 S2
So in terms of the costs involved of training a dog and making sure all of its health is up to scratch, how much does it cost to fund a seeing eye dog, or to to train a seeing eye dog?
30:20 S4
For a number of years now, we've been using the figure of $50,000. We haven't changed that. It's probably, you know, in the last few years in particular with... all sorts of increases, but we still say $50,000. So in situations where government funding is available, that's the cost we use. That's the figure we use and when and for fundraising purposes, we also use that figure. But everything is getting a little a little more expensive nowadays.
30:48 S2
Yeah I think everything's going up. Cost of living? Yeah. So how long do the dogs usually work for? What age do you retire them at?
30:56 S4
We don't have a set age. Some organisations do. That's, it's not that unusual in the dog guide world for agencies have some sort of a hard cutoff. You know when we're looking at our data and then also consulting with International Guide Dog Federation, which has, I think about 80 organisations from around the globe. The average working time, working tenure of a of a dog is approximately six and a half years. And so.
31:30 S2
Really?
31:30 S4
Yeah. And so we thought it was a little bit higher. But a number of years ago we went to look at our data and... that's what it is. And so... but it's an average, right? And so many dogs go over that. Sure. For sure. And some dogs don't don't quite make it to that for us because - and this also is something that changes from organisation to organisation - we issue dogs when they are about one and a half. That means that eight years of age is more or less the the average age for us when dogs are retiring.
But many dogs work best eight years of age. But it's not... so the dog turns eight. They are... within their the animal world. They are older dogs, you know, geriatric dogs. And anything that people, the handlers get out of... work with their dogs after eight is a bonus. And it's... above average. But it's yeah, it does happen. Of course.
32:24 S2
100%. Yeah. Lacey retired three months shy of her 11th birthday. So I think we had a really good innings.
32:31 S4
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Past ten. We used to... think it was ten. But then we realised that's as... an average. It doesn't work out that way at all. But but yeah many dogs go to ten and well, almost 11 like I said.
32:45 S2
Yeah I think she just stopped wanting to work. Yeah. But she still wanted all the other benefits of being a seeing eye dog, like being able to go out. So.
32:53 S4
Right.
32:53 S2
So how do people get involved, whether they want to volunteer or donate or, you know, just help out in some way? Where can they go? What can they do?
33:01 S4
Yeah. I think our website is... the main way - we have phone... numbers of course, as well, if the, if people don't like the idea of the website, you can search for Seeing Eye Dogs on Google. You can Google that... Vision Australia, Seeing Eye Dogs. That's us. But...any, yeah. Or in, throughout all all the socials, the usual. But we, yeah we always need support - I mentioned about it does take...it takes a village in terms of staff, volunteers, sponsors, of course. Everyone who wants to support us, we're always needing more. We always want to get more dogs out, more dogs and more quickly. And so we, yeah, we'd appreciate any type of support.
33:50 S2
Perfect. And we will have the link to the website. The phone number, all of that on the podcast notes. Well, I have one last question for you. And in my view, it's the most important question: which do you prefer, black labs or gold ones?
34:04 S4
I oh yeah. I think the political answer is I don't have a preference, but I can tell you that our pet dog at home is a black lab.
34:15 S2
Good choice, my friend. Good choice. That's a wrap for the week. You can contact Seeing Eye Dogs Australia on 1800 751 465. Or you can go to Sydney, Australia to find out more.
34:35 S3
A big thank you to Lester, Anthony and Lisa and an even bigger thank you to the Heavenly Host - otherwise known as the members of the Dog Guide Handlers Australia Facebook page and the amazing volunteers and staff of Vision Australia Radio Adelaide, who brought these comments to life.
34:52 S2
And of course a big thank you for listening. And as usual, you can download this program along with some extra content on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favourite podcast platform.
35:03 S3
Next week we catch up with Victoria Hunt and Francois Jacobs from SBS - as we talk about audio description.
35:09 S2
But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help someone who is dealing with something similar.
35:24 S3
Our email address is studio1@visionaustralia.org -That's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org - or you can leave us a comment on our various social media pages. Search for VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.
35:37 S2
This program was made possible by the Community Broadcasting Foundation. To find out more, go to [?].
35:45 S3
Bye for now.
