00:05S1
I had a partner where romantic things were happening all the time. Like, uh, you know, she bring home flowers to put it in the vase and put on the kitchen table? Um, it was just a what? I wouldn't say romantic, but she brightened up the place, and, um, she was always very, um, caring and and and, well, in a sense, doting to use that terminology. And every now and again we would just go out for a lovely, um, meal and share each, each each other's company. Like, um, before date nights were a spoken about. We made an effort to do that. Just go out and, um, try somewhere new, try something different, spend a little bit extra on a fancy meal and, uh, and and be lovey dovey with each other.
00:54S2
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
01:05S3
Hello. I'm Sam...
01:06S4
And I'm Lizzie.
01:07S5
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at live from a low vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.
01:13S4
On this week's show.
01:14S5
It's Valentine's Day, a day of love and gaudy coloured gifts. What is the dating scene like when you can't see your potential partner? We ask a few friends how they found that perfect somebody, or maybe why they are still looking. What is it like when you are dating blind?
01:32S4
As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio One, or whether you think there's something that we should be talking about, you never know. Your story or insight may help someone who is dealing with something similar.
01:48S5
You can contact us via email Studio one at Vision Australia. Org that's studio one at Vision Australia. Org or perhaps drop some note on the station's Facebook page. We want to hear from you. Happy Valentine's Day, Lizzie.
02:05S4
Oh, I thank you, Sam, and happy Valentine's Day to you. Have you got any plans for today?
02:11S5
Well, apparently we're off to a concert, so, um, that should be interesting. Something about, um, I don't know. The band's apparently not that bright.
02:20S4
Oh, no. Oh, I've heard they've got quite simple minds. Isn't that right?
02:23S5
That's right, that's right. So, I don't know about you, but, I mean, Valentine's Day. I've always had a pretty much a love hate relationship with, um.
02:33S4
Same. Yep.
02:35S5
It's, uh. I've heard it actually described as akin to the cane toad. Once it arrived in Australia, it would never leave. But, I mean, I, frankly, I mean, during the 80s and 90s, a really never really heard about it.
02:46S4
No, it seems to have become more popular in the last 20 years, hasn't it?
02:49S5
Yes, definitely. And which happens to have coincided with the when I've actually been attached to somebody as well, which is uh. Oh, well, we get that.
02:58S4
Well, I can't say the same for myself. I haven't always celebrated Valentine's Day, but, uh, Stephen and I have been together for almost four years now, so this will be, you know, not our first rodeo.
03:09S5
So what has the dating scene been like for you? I mean, you're totally blind as opposed to my nearly blind.
03:15S6
Um.
03:16S4
Uh, complicated. I think if that's one word to describe it. You know, uh, I've tried a few times to do the whole online dating thing, but, you know, people tend to freak out when they find out that you're blind or visually impaired. And most of my fondest relationships, I think I will call them, have really sprouted organically just from meeting people who've either been visually impaired or fully sighted, and where a connection is just formed, you know, out of out of common ground or whatever it might be. What about you?
03:48S7
Yeah, I would agree with you.
03:49S5
Well, I mean, I'm old enough that, yes, all this online dating is, predates... well, a lot of when I was actually in the dating scene, I've got to admit, a lot of my friends actually have have actually found love that way, though. There's a friend of mine in Darwin who. Yeah, he found his special somebody through the internet. And this is back in the early 2000. And, yeah, it's very dear friend of ours, who we will be talking to later on this month. Also found her perfect. Somebody through the online dating scene. So it's gone from being this. Oh, somebody that you've met online to something fairly respectable.
04:27S4
Yeah. I do remember the days when, you know, I would, as a teenager, tell my family that I'd met someone online and they would laugh it off to actually being, oh, you met someone that's great. Like, it's definitely taken more seriously these days. But, you know, I never had much success with it. I don't know, it may just mean internet don't really go well together, I don't think.
04:54S5
So let's start with basics. Why should we expect anybody else to talk about their love life when we don't talk about ours? Or, well, maybe that's too hard. Maybe we can harass each other's partners. Hello, Stephen. Good night. Yeah, yeah. I'm good, I am good. I've always wondered, how is it possible to put up with someone like Lizzie?
05:18S8
Oh, very easy, because she's much younger than I am. And she's full of life and spirit and energy, which sometimes can be annoying as hell. Tongue in cheek.
05:28S5
Yes, I know, I've got a seat across the desk from her every now and again. So yes, I understand exactly what you're talking about there. So me and my wife, Heidi have a Valentine's Day, um, tradition. Uh, we can't be bothered with any of this flashy jewelry or any cards or anything like that. We tend to buy each other a nice bottle of alcoholic. Do you have a Valentine's Day tradition?
05:55S8
Well, we really don't. I don't know, what do we do? We are. Sometimes I buy her, like a stuffed toy or she buys me one. I tend to go for the flowers and that sort of stuff. I used to go for the candy and whatnot, but Lizzie doesn't like chocolate. Well, she does like chocolate, but she doesn't like chocolate. But she does anyway. That's it.
06:14S5
That's a conundrum we shall go into later. Yeah. So how did the pair of you meet?
06:19S8
We met through a singing group, through an organization run for by the blind. For the blind. And, um. Yeah, we just sort of bonded over a certain song, and, like, I started playing it on the guitar, and we started singing it together, and it was just like, kind of like, you know, cosmic. It was awesome.
06:40S5
One of the more difficult things I've encountered in my life is trying to work out how to find that special somebody, because you can't necessarily see how they're reacting to you. And I've been in this situation sometimes where I've thought someone's really, really into me. And of course, they've just been hiding the fact that they're bored as all hell. Or I've heard later on, much later on that someone's been really, really into me, but they haven't said anything. What's your experience been like out there in the dating world?
07:09S8
Bloomin terrible. I'll tell you why. Um, for single men, it seems like you're sort of like a meat market type thing trying to find women. Uh, it's very, very difficult. Uh, they'd like to talk and chat a lot via text, I found, but they, uh, it's very hard to get a meet and greet sort of thing going, you know, first date sort of stuff. Uh, especially when you're blind, you know, because you've got to have that excuse like, you know, got to use excuse. I can't drive, so I can't meet you in the city or anything like that, or it's been a bit difficult, but when I met Lizzie, it was just awesome, you know, it's just happened, and. And it wasn't expected either. It just sort of happened.
07:50S5
What do you think the difference is between dating somebody who is fully sighted, as opposed to someone from our community?
07:59S8
Well, that's a good point. Um, because, um, well, that's a good question. I should say I found it very hard to date people that when they call them the norms, I don't know what they call them, but, uh, I prefer to date people in our community. If I ever was single again, that was. That is. Yeah. Um, just having that, um, you know, I understand, like, who you are sort of thing. It's like we're we're own race of people. You know, it's really weird, but, um, dating normal people is, uh, they don't actually, they don't really get it, if that. If that helps.
08:34S5
So is there like a shorthand you find when you're dealing with people with a vision impairment?
08:40S8
Yeah. Yeah. It's it fits really well, if that helps.
08:46S5
Yeah. I mean, I used to find when I was living in Darwin, it was a bit of a put off when you'd say, all right, I'll paddle around to pick you up, but, um. Yes. All right. Stephen, thank you. And we'll be in contact. Yeah.
08:58S8
Happy Valentine's Day, guys.
09:02UU
Anybody. I mean.
09:09S9
You.
09:11UU
Somebody should come.
09:15S5
Hello, Simon.
09:16S1
Hi, Sam. How are you.
09:17S5
Doing? I am good, I am good. I'm sitting here, um, waiting for my wife to come home and, uh. Then, uh, yes. Uh, we are off to a concert. But what about you? I mean, what's your state of affairs?
09:31S1
Yeah, well, at the moment, I recently turned 59 years old, and, I've probably been officially single for too many years to count. I'm a very complicated and contradictory fellow, Sam. I am very cynical person, so I don't really go in for all these holidays and special days that we're told to have, and saying that if I did have a significant other, I would probably try to do something for Valentine's Day. But when I have in the past, it's always gone quite pear shaped to be polite. And it is hard to be a romantic person, which I think I am when, you're single and when you get told about these special days and often just reminds me that I don't have a significant other, so, yeah, I'm not I'm not a fan of of Valentine's Day. Just like I'm not really a fan of Christmas and Easter and any other special holiday apart from my birthday, which should be a holiday every year. But that's a whole 'nother matter.
10:45S5
Oh, that should be a holiday. Definitely. Yes, we we should all celebrate Simon Tom's birthday at the.
10:51S1
Start of summer.
10:52S5
Well, even even better. So. So when you talked about, um, some romantic gestures not quite going right, do we have any, uh, examples of that?
11:03S1
I'm not sure he'll be listening to this. And so I'll try and make it really broad. Broad based, uh, without embarrassing myself too much and, uh, without embarrassing anyone who might accidentally hear this. But it's it's that whole, um, pressure of getting something special right, doing something right, and a bit like New Year's Eve, really. And you book a fancy dinner and your partner doesn't like it. Or you, you think you've bought a nice gift and your partner doesn't like it, or you think, oh, we'll just play it low key because she said, oh, don't make a fuss, don't worry about it. So you don't make a fuss. Then you get told off for not making a fuss or just the pressure of tonight's going to be special, darling. Yes. And you both get so stressed out and you might eat this really expensive meal and drink an extra glass of champagne and then go, oh, now I don't feel very well, um, seeing things like that. And, um, when your, um, relationship is always stressful anyway, it just adds an extra layer of, um, complexity and burden that I just don't, um, I just don't cope very well with and also talk about that.
I'll, I'll open up and say that I've been I've spoken about this before. I've had bouts of anxiety and I've had bouts of depression, and I probably have a dark cloud that floats in and in and around me most of the time. I'm fortunate that I also have things that really brighten me up. So these days, these significant holy days, don't forget it is Saint Patrick's Day and they make someone like myself feel even less adequate than I already do when I am feeling anxious or depressed. Being 59, as I said, never married, no kids, several file relationships, Saint Patrick's Day, Saint Valentine's Day. I like Saint Patrick's Day. It's a whole 'nother issue. Saint Valentine's Day just reminds me that there's another layer of where I don't fit into this ideal society and things like that, you know? So there is a serious part to this of not really liking Valentine's Day as well.
13:27S5
Is there, um, a particular day where you thought you actually did get it right, though?
13:31S1
There was a couple of times where I thought I got it right. Um, there was a night where nothing went wrong as such, except that my partner at the time, uh, we booked a hotel room. We booked a fancy Japanese restaurant, like, a lot of fancy restaurants, especially on Valentine's Day. By the time the food comes out, you already had a couple of glasses of wine. And she was already tired, and she was praying to migraines. And by the time we had all that, we went back to the fancy hotel room. She was feeling ill, so that was no one's fault except a thing. It was the internal pressure on that she was facing as well. I think I've had really lovely romantic days and nights that haven't been Valentine's Day. I was remembering one recently and again, it was for my birthday and it was on the restaurant tram in Melbourne. Yeah, if you'd never been on the restaurant trend in Melbourne, I highly recommend it. Beautiful idea on all the worldly tram, all decked out and all the wealthy turn of the century sort of fixtures and that fine dining, great food, champagne on entry, drinks included in your meal, a beautiful, beautiful experience and a very romantic day was had by the pair of us. But it wasn't Valentine's Day.
14:55S5
So when you see other people and their partners, do you feel like you're missing out?
15:01S1
Yeah, do. I was just talking about that the other day. A couple of Fridays ago, I went out with, uh, four other people. Two couples. And, um, you know, friends of mine, always a big group of us, would go out for dinner a lot. And there's a table for nine. And on the ninth person, you know, especially at this age, stand. It is odd to be the third wheel, literally, like at a table. You're the one that sits at the end, boys by yourself kind of thing. And I do admire long term couples that are real. You see them argue, you see them being lovey dovey, and you see the respect I have for one another. And I do sometimes, uh, long for that. I'm no rush to get in a relationship. I think I have learned from my previous experiences. I haven't tasted the water yet. I'm not looking for connect up. I'm not on any apps or not any online things. If I meet someone nice, I will try to pursue something. And I have over the years and nothing come about it.
And, you know, it's a tricky business at this age. Like obviously I've got a lot of hangups and baggage, and if someone's single now, they've probably got a lot of hangups and baggage. Just a matter of matching those bags together, then it can be hard work.
16:28S5
So what will you be doing tonight?
16:31S1
I will be going to. I've got an appointment with, uh, the NDIS firstly in the afternoon, and then I'll be going to my dad's house to have dinner with my dad, his wife and my dad's sister. So that will be a sort of family reunion and such club. Say my dad, sister, my aunty for a very long time. So yeah, that will be it, Sam. And then come home from then and put on the telly and, uh, have a glass of wine myself.
17:03S5
Simon Chong. Hope you have a hope. You have a good night. Anyway, uh, we'll be thinking about you as we're, um, listening to Simple Minds. Have a good one, right?
17:12S1
Yeah. They're on in Adelaide this week.
17:15S5
That's right. I am joined once again by Matthew Spencer. Matt has quite a different background to me because I am the original atheist, whereas Matt comes from a family of faith. But that kind of helped you out a little bit, didn't it? When it came to actually finding that person?
17:38S10
Yeah, it did indeed. Um, well, it's hard enough in the best of times to find somebody who will love you for who you are. And it's a difficult thing to, because finding somebody that has a similar faith to yourself in the vision impaired community can be a bit difficult. Are the one person compromises or the other person compromises? And then I'm not saying that's not a bad thing, but if you have equal footing pretty much on the same thing of what you believe, regardless if it's atheism or faith of some sort, Islam or Christianity or Catholic or something like that, it seems to be. I found it more difficult. So. But finding my now wife in the church that I was attending at the time, it's sort of like a foundation that you're both. Yeah. It's hard to decide if you and your significant other have the same foundation or the same base. Then you can build up from there. Whereas if you all want and someone else is slightly different, then I'm not saying there's not no fights or anything, but it's just you can get back to where you are, so to speak. I suppose that's the best way to do it.
18:52S5
So let's go. Let's go back to when I first met you, which was we're talking early 2000. I mean, you were the original blind bachelor.
19:01S10
Yes. Well, one of them. One of the one of the many, I suppose.
19:06S5
What did you find was the biggest hurdle as far as talking to potential partners or people you might like?
19:14S10
Nothing. I would say body language as much as I used to. When you have a vision, disability or low vision, or even if you're totally even more so, it's the little things that you you may not be able to pick up on, because you may interpret somebody as they may be waving at something or showing a fly or they gesturing something. You may miss it because you can't see what they're doing. Yeah, it's just those little visual cues that when someone's using their body or in a certain way, you just may miss it. But when it comes to talking to you, I was just shy, I found it. Um, like, even though a lot of people accepted me for who I was, I think for a lot of ladies that I was friends with, I think they probably didn't know how to cope with a person with a vision disability as such, not knowing how they could best help me. And it may have been their families to the most in like, oh, I've got this guy I'm interested in at church or wherever. It has a vision disability, and maybe their families had something to do with it.
20:20S5
I find sometimes the able bodied people sometimes don't think that we have the same urges and needs as the as the normal people. Somehow we are like, the Ken doll is like a just a lump down there that, uh, you know, is just this big bunch of plastic. And same with our emotions, you know, we just want people to look at us as as normal people or something like that.
20:44S10
Yeah. Oh, just. Yeah, I'll just put the old friends out. Yes. Just like, yeah, I'll go out with this person or we'll go as a group together. And all the people that are dating or, or thinking of dating or whatever it will be in one section and then all those that are don't quite fit the stereotypical able bodied or whatever, they can sit in another section and that's part of it too, I suppose.
21:10S5
So I've been speaking to Simon Chong and he says that the age of 59, he is now the eternal third wheel. I'm presuming in your young days you were that plus one when a whole bunch of other couples were around. Yes.
21:25S10
Unfortunately yes. It's not through lack of trying. As I said before, like you may express interest in somebody, but it's it's just the like I don't mind that he's just there to like he's friends with everybody and he loves everybody. But yeah, he wants some. Everybody wants at least something more. Or most people want something more than just feeling that third wheel or whatnot.
21:50S5
But those days are far behind both of us. So, yeah. Tell us about this wonderful woman you met.
21:56S10
So 14 years ago. I moved up to Clarkson, and it wasn't for a couple of months after that, before I started going to the churches around my local area and eventually found a church that one of my other friends was going to at the time. Now, he's not visually impaired or anything, but him and his wife and their two children were going to this church, so I decided on that. You go that you actually go to. And it wasn't a couple of months after that. Then I met my own now wife at this particular church.
22:24S5
What was different about her? I mean, you said you had some, um, you had some bad luck in the past. So what was different this time?
22:30S10
I think my heart was a bit more open. It was like a fresh start, because when I moved up to where I am, I only knew a handful of people. So like the church that I was going to, as I said, I, his him and his wife and their two children, and there was about 3 or 4 other people in the church, I knew that it was so basically the church had a size of 5 or 600 people, and I only knew probably five. So like 1%, basically 1% of the church I knew. So basically it was a whole new start. And by her, well, at that stage was going to the church for a little bit. And then I got my guide dog, Frankie around that time as well. So I think she was attracted to the dog personally, which happens to some people. They are an icebreaker, you know, they're very much so. And, uh, she asked who I was and all the rest of it. And we were talking about this, that and the other and and it was just just just a friend, just as somebody else to add to my collection of people who I knew.
And, um, yeah, as time went on, we got talking more and we went out for a cup of coffee and, uh, things started to slowly happening all the rest of it. But the, uh, the church that we were attending at the time were not particularly pleased about our relationship, so. Oh, why was that? To quote the church or the person that was leading up to the, uh, the section of the young adult section? Now, when I started dating Laura, my now wife, that were afraid or that she would take advantage of my disability, there was not mine or hers, but that she was going to take advantage of me. And I'm like, I'm mid 30, so about 34, 35. And um, I'm going like, okay, you're worried about me, I get it. But I'm 35 years of age. I'm sure I can make up my own mind if whom I want to start developing a relationship for and all the rest of it. But yes, they were concerned.
But I feel like the, um, the teenager who. When you you're young and in love, they go like, don't you go out with that wild boy or that bad boy, he's going to treat you wrong and he's going to corrupt you and all the rest of it. And they were worried at that stage that this is what she would do. Now I'm like, sometimes you can't help for whom you fall in love with and but Laura and I, it was a slow burn and Laura had just been came off a couple of previous relationships that she was in. Maybe they were a little bit worried about her too, but I'm going like she's in her mid 20s. So because there's nine years between Laura and I, so she'll be hitting the big 40 this year and I'll be 49 in August and she'll be 40 in September. So maybe they're a bit worried about the age gap, maybe about the disability, but I'm going like she's 26. It was like 26. Um, 25, 26.
Yeah, she may have had bad relationships, but at the end of the day, this is who she chose. It's none of your beeswax, basically. And just leave us alone. And like, they kept pushing and pushing and pushing and going like, well, you're doing exactly what you did. As I said before, people do with teenagers. It's like, don't you stay with that young man or that young woman. They'll do this and this, and it draws closer together. And we ended up leaving the church because we don't you don't treat people like that regardless of they have a disability or not. And and they didn't sit us down. They try setting us down and going like, well, let's work through this. And I'm going like at that stage we've been dating for about six months. We changed our statuses on Facebook to, um, in a relationship and, uh. They go, because you can't put that on Facebook because we haven't talked about it and we're like, yeah.
So again, I get your concern. Not none of this. Let's go to pre-marital counseling classes or anything. Or let's talk about what this means to whatever what will happen if you have children. That's what will happen with her work. Will she be able to look after you? None of that. It was just like they said. Basically, we think that you shouldn't see each other well. Well, no, it doesn't work that way.
26:42S5
So you both got married and.
26:46S10
To each other, I hope.
26:48S5
And you? You have. How many lovely children?
26:52S10
Two. One of each.
26:53S5
So life's changed a bit since I knew you back in the early 2000. Can you say what it is like now to be in a marriage? In a relationship? Like if you.
27:08S10
Said to me when we first met that, um, or whatever and said like, okay, uh, in 23 years or so, 23, 24 years, you would be married, you have a person of your own, you would have a wife and two children. If you said to me, that's what, 23, 24 years ago, I'll probably go like, well, that would be lovely.
27:27S5
And do you feel lucky for the life that you're leading now?
27:32S10
Yeah. Lucky. Blessed. Yeah. Whatever you want to put there really been much, um. Like, I got a I got a wife who loves me and wants to look after me and make sure that I'm all right, okay? She's not one of those doting ones that would, like, drop anything and everything. Go. Okay, what do you need? And like a maid, she's not a maid. Like the partners. So we take responsibility to help raise our kids. Like, if, um, we're lucky enough that our son, who's, um, be ten this year. So it's just turned nine. Helps out quite a lot. So if I need something or help to find something, more often than not, I'll go like, well, have you seen dad's cane? Have you seen dad's yellow hat? Have you seen something? And he'll go like, oh, so. But of course, being nine now is. It feels like sometimes it's a bit of a job looking after a person with a disability. He's again, I don't want him to be labeled with everything. I'm not saying you must find my cane, otherwise I'm going to get angry with you because there's certainly other plenty of other things to get angry and upset about. But I want him to, I suppose, help appreciate the fact that helping people is a good thing to do, regardless if they have a disability or not.
28:43S5
Today is Valentine's Day. Do you have any plans for tonight?
28:47S11
Uh, let's see tonight. Well, at.
28:49S10
The moment, I'll probably get to try to get the kids to bed early and probably ordered something in his menu log. And, uh. Or an automatic gain of something like my lovely wife. Um, she is what she wants. So if she wants to have McDonald's, then it'll be a lovely, romantic dinner of McDonald's at home or whatever. And, uh, probably just curl up and watch a bit of Mash for watching the TV series Mash at the moment. So what the let's watch a bit of mesh and then head off to bed and see what happens after that.
29:19S5
Matthew, thank you for giving us a bit of your time. I've learnt a few things that I didn't know before and it made me sort of, I don't know, look at you slightly differently in a really positive way. So thank you for that.
29:30S11
No. Is it also.
29:36S4
I am here with Heidi. Sam's a lovely partner, and I have to ask, how do you put up with someone as cheeky and mischievous Sam?
29:45S12
Ah, well, the secret to that is that you give as good as you get. Oh, I can be just as cheeky and mischievous back.
29:51S4
That's good to hear. And so, tell me, how long have you guys actually been together? And how did you get together?
29:58S12
Okay. Uh. All up. We've been together 23 years. Oh, uh, 12 of those married. Yeah, a bit of a story. I'll try and condense it. Sam and I, both, in our younger years, competed in blind sports for our respective states territories. Me doing swimming, mainly him doing track and field. So we kind of did cross paths with each other at national competitions since the 80s, but didn't really start talking to each other, I guess until the 90s. And then, uh, I was I'd always hear his name on the the Blind Sport grapevine, I guess you could say now, uh, it wasn't until 2000, when the Paralympics were in Sydney. My sister and I decided that we would go be, um, spectators because we knew several people from South Australia who were competing along with other, you know, people that I had sort of known through the blind sporting world. So and believe me, it was just as exciting to go there as the other Olympics, if I can say that.
Anyway, uh, we managed to get, uh, tickets to the Australian team's closing party, like, end of games party. Oh, cool. Yes. Very exclusive. And I was standing there with my friend Sonia. Yes. Um, because, yes, I'd gone to watch her compete, and there was just this, uh, sort of. It was fairly dark in the big warehouse that the party was in, and there was this sort of tall, taller guy sort of standing near us, sort of, I guess, wanting to be talking to us. And I went over to sign her and I said, who's that? Who is that? She goes there, Sam? Richard. Oh, hello. So we've got talking again. And through talking I found out that Sam had actually been living in Adelaide for the last 12 months. Had no idea. Anyway, we swapped, uh, phone numbers. And when Sam got back to Adelaide from his tour of duty after the Paralympics, gave me a call. We set up a date, and the rest is history.
32:03S4
That sounds very exciting. I got to say, an after party. And, uh, I mean, he's not that tall, but.
32:10S12
Taller than me.
32:14S4
Fair enough. So where did you guys go for your first date?
32:17S12
We went to the Grand Hotel down at Glenelg.
32:20S4
Oh, that's a very nice place.
32:22S12
So we met there for a couple of drinks. It was on a Friday night and very loud and crowded. Um, so we decided to go for dinner to the Glenelg pizza house.
32:31S4
All Glenelg. I haven't been there. I'm going to go there now. So what sort of things do you do to celebrate Valentine's Day? Because I imagine now, after, what, 23 years of being together, you know, you might not want to do something grand every single Valentine's Day. So what? What do you do? Okay.
32:50S12
Uh, I guess, yeah, in the first few years, we, you know, there was a bit of, I guess, that, you know, the, you know, first newness of the relationship. Yes. We, you know, Sam would cook me nice meals, that sort of thing. And he still does, and he still does. Uh, the tradition that we've developed now is that we both buy each other a bottle of alcohol that only that person can drink, so we don't share. Oh, I buy something he likes. He buys something I like, and that's. Yeah.
33:21S4
How exclusive do you consult each other? About? What bottles are you going to buy now?
33:25S12
I think we know. We know what each other likes. So, yeah. So, yeah, we're pretty. We're pretty good with that. I will say, though, this year, just by coincidence, we are actually going to a concert which just happened to fall on Valentine's Day this year. We're going to see Simple Minds at the Entertainment Centre. So yes, with with another couple.
33:44S4
So why not double dating?
33:46S12
Double dating. Yeah.
33:47S4
Cool. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. So is Sam. The first blind, sorry, vision impaired person that you've dated, or have you other dated, other vision impaired people?
33:59S12
I have dated other vision impaired people. And I've also dated non vision impaired people. But no, Sam's not not the first, but he's certainly the first. I feel that is completely that completely gets me.
34:12S4
Yeah, yeah for sure. There's got to be a level of understanding there. And it's common ground having vision impairment too isn't it.
34:18S12
It is. And you know I can be completely myself around him. He can be completely himself around me. Oh yeah.
34:25S13
How cute.
34:27S4
So what would you say is the difference for you with between dating a visually impaired and fully sighted person?
34:34S12
Okay. Fully sighted. As nice as they can be. There is just that element of just not quite getting what a vision impaired person has to deal with. Mhm. However, I mean, I'm a fairly, I've always been a fairly independent person.
34:50S13
Yeah.
34:51S12
I certainly don't rely on, for example, if you know, there's, I've dated guys that obviously have cars, I certainly don't rely on them to be at my beck and call. I never did know. And then, you know, at the in the end it would just the relationship would just end. And I just always felt like they weren't completely honest with me as to why I was being dumped.
35:14S13
Yeah.
35:15S4
It's interesting you should say that, actually, because I've done a little bit of online dating myself. And you know, when you talk to these people, you might not always disclose or I didn't disclose at first because I always had the thought or the mindset that I didn't want them to suddenly become disinterested because I was blind, but then it would actually turn out that we'd go to somewhere and I take my seeing eye dog. So, you know, a pretty big indicator of my blindness. And they would either be disinterested anyway or they would feel the need to be totally mollycoddling.
35:52S13
Yes. Yeah.
35:53S4
And that ended up, you know, causing a few issues because, you know, I had to explain to people like, look, if I'm independent enough to get to the city by myself and do all this online navigating of the dating sites myself, I think, you know, there's a lot I'm not going to need your help with all of this stuff that you think I'm going to need.
36:10S12
So yeah, the thing with me is that with my eye condition, people look at me and can immediately see that there isn't that something's not quite right with my eyes. Yeah. And I guess the other thing is that if we're going to a restaurant and I'm reading the menu, I'm holding it a lot closer. Yeah. So that's that's an instant give away. Some of the attitudes that I used to get was, oh, well, isn't there an operation you can get to fix it?
36:35S13
Oh my.
36:36S4
I got those questions all the time. Yeah. You know, actually what I ended up doing, uh, especially to the menu situation because I didn't want them to read out the menus to me. I would actually end up going to a restaurant where I knew the menu relatively well, and then I'd be like, I think I'm going to get the steak this evening. What? What do you feel like? Well, you're Brian, how do you know? Oh, I've been to this restaurant a thousand times before.
36:59S12
Well, the other trick that I have nowadays, um, is that if I know, you know in advance that we're going to, you know, a pub or a restaurant, I'll look them up online and read the menu in advance.
37:09S4
Yeah, well, luckily we have that. Yes, that, you know, that tool and. Yeah.
37:13S12
So if you didn't have that, you know, 20 to 30 years ago.
37:16S4
Amazing. Well, thanks for talking to me. And it's been interesting to hear about your experiences. And maybe when I'm 23 years into my marriage, I'll come to you for some.
37:25S13
Tips, okay? Yeah, I'm right here. Yeah. All right.
