[Note: speaker numbers and brand/product names in this transcript below are not necessarily accurate.]
00:06 S1
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia Radio.
00:18 S2
Hello there, I'm Lizzie.
00:20 S3
And I'm Sam.
00:21 S2
And you're listening to Studio 1, Vision Australia Radio's weekly look at life from a blind and low vision point of view.
00:27 S3
This week we're coming to you from you city in Adelaide. Thanks to See Differently in South Australia, we present Techfest, the only technology expo of this kind in Australia.
00:37 S2
As we always say at this point, please do get in touch with the show whether you have any experience with the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio 1, or whether you think there's something we should be talking about. You never know - your story and insight may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
00:53 S3
Please contact us via email, studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org.
00:59 S2
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our Facebook page at facebook.com slash VA radio network.
01:08 S3
First person. of course, we're going to talk to is the person who organised all of this. Hello, Andrew. How are you going?
01:13 S4
I'm very good. Thank you very much for having me on.
01:16 S3
So how long has this been going on now? I think I asked this last time, but well, you know.
01:21 S4
So I can never remember the exact number of years. But I've been at See Differently with the Royal Society for the Blind for 15 years, and I know it was on 3 or 4 years before that. So yeah, I reckon we're kind of almost in that 20 year bracket now. Definitely.
01:35 S3
So to the best of my knowledge, no one else does anything quite like this. I mean, we've got other things that are organised by the various companies and things like that, but there's nothing specifically for blind and visually impaired people. And feel free to load this answer because this is going out on Vision Australia Radio. Yeah.
01:50 S4
So we do a few regional technology events as well. So we've we've headed down to Mount Gambier, Whyalla. So very much kind of South Australia based. But yeah, Techfest is kind of our huge event for clients to kind of come along too. So we've probably had around 350 people come across today, and this year's event is a little bit different to ones that we've run in previous years. The whole focus on this year's event is to really get hands on with products and experience the products in your hands, so we've got a whole range of different stations set up this year, from your talk and cooking products or induction hob, microwave air fryers. And we're delighted to have the team from Apple over here this year as well, showcasing some of their products in our kind of home lounge and home office setup as well.
And then it's really showcasing everything from your liquid level indicator all the way through to your high end monarch devices. So a real good opportunity for everyone to kind of see absolutely everything that's available, because I guess everything is new to somebody who might be recently diagnosed with a vision impairment. And we want to make sure that people are aware of all the products and all the services that we kind of offer to be able to help people remain independent at home.
02:59 S2
So how many people, would you say roughly turn out to these events every year? Because it seems like... there's a lot of people around us, and this is just the second session of the day. So, yeah. How many people do you think approximately come out each year?
03:14 S4
I reckon we've got around 350 people coming across today. So you're right with this is the second session of the day and we ran from 9:00 till 2:00. And that was really open to clients and their families to come across and experience the products. And our session from three till six is really open to allied health professionals, optometrists, ophthalmologists to kind of come and get information about the services as well.
03:38 S3
That's new, isn't it? You haven't had run the sort of the latest sessions before.
03:42 S4
So normally we run an after hours PD session for people and but we've tried to kind of condense it down into one really action packed and day. Make sure that our suppliers who have travelled from interstate and overseas, can still get home at a reasonable time as well.
03:57 S2
So how important is it, do you think, for allied health professionals and... ophthalmologists to attend events like these?
04:06 S4
I think it's really, really important for them to know what is available to support their patients as well, because there might be nothing optically they can do for them anymore. But there are solutions to help people remain independent, whether it is a low level reading device or if it's one of our new services, to be able to assist those people remain independent and look, although we are a vision specialist, it is a case of there are products out there that will help other people with other disabilities as well.
04:35 S3
So before we jump in, is there anything that... is there a highlight that has just blown your socks off this this year?
04:42 S4
So this year I guess last year we launched the Monarch here in Adelaide at Techfest 2023. And the advances from there to where it is now is really, really exciting. We're I'm delighted to see where that's going to head off to in the future. We've got the Ribbon Meters here today as well. So showcasing that kind of the mainstream product and how that's going to be accessible for a lot of our clients with the optical character recognition function from there with the Meta. So, yeah, there's I think every table has something really, really cool this year... nd as I said, anything that we might feel that isn't new can be new to a lot of new people as well.
05:19 S3
Thank you very much. And we're looking forward to this. And I... go back, have a... rest, drink, get a glass of water or something.
05:27 S4
Thank you so much for your time and supporting the event.
05:37 S3
All right, Lizzy, we've been wandering around for a little while, and we've come across some people from Pacific Vision. Who have we got here?
05:43 S5
My name is Mahesh.
05:44 S3
Okay, Mahesh. Pretend we've all been living on the moon for God knows how long. What do you guys actually do?
05:49 S5
So Pacific Vision has been providing technology for vision impaired from last 22 years. And we have all, you know, the handheld magnifiers all the way up to desktop magnifiers plus braille equipment as well.
06:04 S3
Lizzy, do you want to start first?
06:05 S2
What is the Braille equipment?
06:06 S5
The Braille Notetaker plays a 40 cell, a new 40 cell Braille display has just been out. Yeah, so it's called Braille Emotion. And that's been very popular. And the new Sense Player, which has already been there in the market for some time. Yes. It's going great. Yeah. Anything particular you're looking at today?
06:25 S2
The 40 cell. I've heard so much about it. I've never seen it. And I really want to have a look at it.
06:31 S5
Oh, absolutely. Yes. What do you like? Come the silent.
06:34 S2
Oh come on. Lacy.
06:35 S5
So this is the new 40 cell Braille Emotion. Yep.
06:40 S2
Oh, it's quite... big. It's a lot longer than the standard 32 cell. Yes. Does it have all the functions of it?
06:50 S5
We have Michael from Hims, the company who produces this. Yes. No Braille display. Oh, I'm not good at English. Oh, no.
06:58 S6
It's again. Just relax. Just relax.
07:01 S7
Just tell me what it does.
07:02 S6
Well, this is a kind of, this is a breath spray. Yeah. And it has some kind of almost Braille notetaker person. Almost grammar taker.
07:13 S8
Almost. Yeah.
07:14 S6
Because we have a breath and six. And this one is a new model like emotions then. Yeah. And it has a, the notepad and the media player. Record player on the dash player. Most most features of note taking function is in there. Okay. Yeah. But it has a separate cell phone that doesn't have a sound function is not included. Phaidon press and six. But the most advanced player display in the market.
07:48 S8
So could I use Bluetooth to connect.
07:50 S2
It to my phone or your tablet to read something that I'm looking through?
07:55 S6
Yeah, that is possible. And you can be you connect. You can connect at five divided by Bluetooth. One device by USB.
08:03 S8
Oh okay.
08:04 S2
And does it have internet capabilities or not just yet?
08:08 S6
Not internet capability. It has a WiFi feature, but the only one is possible is the online library.
08:15 S2
Okay, brilliant. And how much does it cost?
08:19 S6
Oh, 4995. 4995.
08:24 S2
4995.
08:26 S3
Yes.
08:26 S2
Brilliant. That is a lot cheaper than some of the other note takers and things out there. Yeah. Oh, amazing. Thanks for letting us have a look at it.
08:35 S3
Thank you very much. All right. Okay, so we had Lizzie's a bit of fun. Now, what have you got for me? What can change my life?
08:41 S5
Okay, now we have got some anything particularly looking at, like a handheld one or something. Oh. It's portable.
08:50 S3
We can start with a handheld. Okay, so.
08:52 S5
We have got something called a [?Lucky] 5. This is a touchscreen handheld magnifier. So it's got a you know, either you can just put it on the desk and just do the magnification. So these portable magnifiers are for quick reference. You know you have it in your pocket. Yeah. Just going out and about for menus, reading menus charts or quickly having a look at some price tag on in a supermarket. So these are these are very handy. You know, you just have to zoom in.
09:20 S3
It looks about the same size as something I used to use at school when, you know, just an old style boring magnifier. But this is electronic, isn't it?
09:26 S5
Yeah. This is an electronic one. And the the advantage in electronic one is you don't have to buy buy them again and again. So once you've bought it, they can zoom up to 20 times. So it's quite good to have a magnifier like that.
09:40 S3
What are the sort of functions does it have? Can you do... say, reverse the colours or anything like that, or adjust it?
09:46 S5
It's got a zoom in, zoom out, as you said 20 times zoom. Then you have different colour modes, so you have different colour modes, white and black, black on white. Like up to like eight color modes available, 12 color modes available.
09:59 S3
So what was this called again? What? Who makes it, [Lucky] 5?
10:01 S5
Five. It's from a company called Rihan.
10:06 S3
Wow. They're made in Ireland. Okay. And how much would this set my NDIS plan back?
10:10 S5
So the good thing is you can buy it from your consumables. It's only $900, so you can just buy it outright through your consumables. And... yes, for the... it's a touch interface. So for the device it's a good price.
10:26 S3
All right. So have you got anything newer that you're excited about that's out here?
10:30 S5
There's something called the Go Vision Pro. This is a 360 camera robust desktop magnifier. Yes. As you can see, it's got a very small footprint. So it gives space for a person to do activities, you know, activities like even if he wants to do some Lego, some intricate work, painting, things like that, and a 360 camera - good for people at work and science so they can look at the smart board. They can look around the classroom, different charts and things.
11:05 S3
How big would the screen be?
11:06 S5
It's 24in.
11:08 S3
That's a good size.
11:09 S5
Yeah, it's a decent sized screen. Plus it's got speech options. So in case your eyes are tired, you don't want to read anymore. This will take a picture and read the text to you. So it's got an inbuilt OCR.
11:21 S3
Can it plug into say a laptop or a desktop computer?
11:25 S5
Yes. This is one of the only devices which can... you don't have to use two screens. So you can use the screen of this device as a desktop.
11:37 S3
Oh wow. Okay. Oh thank you Mahesh, for helping us out, and who we were speaking to before.
11:42 S5
Michael. Michael. Michael.
11:43 S3
All right. Well, thank thank Michael from Hims as well. That was that was very educational. You were our first port of call, so thanks a lot.
11:50 S5
Thank you very much. Lovely to see you guys.
11:55 S2
Yeah. You did so, it doesn't navigate in the same way that a regular Android phone navigates. It's got its own, it's completely different. So... the thing that would help for you is if we had it said to select a speak, which currently is not. So, but that would be the way that you'd use Speak.
12:12 S3
So we've just stumbled here across... Libby. So Libby and Lizzie are playing around with the big purple phone. So... you've got an interesting history as far as developing this thing, I believe.
12:25 S8
So it was initially designed.... Well. My mother had a couple of strokes, and so she was unable to use her phone one day. She was able to use it the day before. So we designed it initially for people with dementia or with cognitive brain injury or decline. But as it turns out, there's so many people with low vision that like it just because it's bigger and bolder and simpler.
12:44 S3
So it runs off... like an Android operating system.
12:46 S8
Yeah, yeah. That's right. So it's a Big Purple Phone. So it's all custom built for... Big Purple Phone, but that, it's an Android phone underneath it all?
12:54 S3
And what you were saying earlier, though, that there are two two functions you can have it for, say blinky's like myself or totals like Lizzie.
13:03 S8
Yeah that's right. So it really is designed for low vision. It probably for complete vision loss. It's probably not suitable, but it's suitable for those who can see, can see a bit and want to see better.
13:14 S3
What's the compatibility like with other with most with apps.
13:18 S8
So it has a it's managed by Big Purple Phones. There are 30 apps on there. So it's got the usual things like phone messages. It's got a great video calling feature which is nice and easy to use. And then you've got up to 30 apps to choose from. So you've got Google Maps, which speaks like it normally does. You've got Google and Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp and all those.
13:38 S2
I was going to ask, so it has all the functions of a normal phone then?
13:42 S8
Most of them. Most of it... it is a phone designed for people with dementia, essentially. So. Or for those who have some sort of brain injury or cognitive decline. So it's simpler. so it doesn't do so much, but it does all the things that people regularly want a phone to do.
13:56 S3
So probably more suited for, say, somebody my age who might have just all of a sudden they lost their site and it's all become too hard.
14:03 S8
Yeah. That's right. I think it's slightly statistical. There's a lot of people who get just give up on their technology because it's just too complicated. That's what this phone is for. It's really for those who are not as young as you. I don't know, I think we might talking about slightly older market, but yeah. So it's it's a phone that's really it's stripped down. It's easier to use and and simpler. It's also safer I would say. The other thing it's got... a spam filter. So if you're easily spammed or scammed, you can set it so that only those people who are contacts can get through.
14:32 S3
So maybe this could be Lizzie's Christmas present, so that mum and dad can keep tabs on her and stop her getting into trouble.
14:39 S2
My husband can keep tabs on me. And yeah.
14:42 S8
I think it sounds like you can.
14:43 S2
Keep one of these. Yes.
14:44 S8
So this version is called The Silver Fox, and we named it after my husband, who is of a certain age and and I think it's perfect for that kind of...
14:52 S2
Character is also called the Silver Fox. I'm the Hare.
14:54 S8
Yeah, it is the Hare. Totally.
14:55 S2
Yeah. Quite the Hare.
14:56 S8
It's always there, yeah.
14:57 S2
How long has this phone been on the market?
14:59 S8
So we've had... two years. But really, in the last of 8 to 12 months, we've increased the amount of vision focused features. So the high contrast dial pad, the keypad, the speaking feature, it talks as you navigate through it. So that's that's something that's come out this year as well.
15:15 S3
You basically offer sort of end to end service with the thing as well, don't you? So you can even get a special SIM for it.
15:20 S8
That's right. So we have a we have AppleCare. So if you buy the SIM card through a big purple phone, you we have big purple care. We help you set up the phone, we get it organized for you and you get the SIM card with us. But you can also buy the phone just straight out right. Stick your own phone SIM card in it. And um, and it's got a help button on the bottom so you can call through to our call center with that help button. And we're there to help, and that's for all phones.
15:43 S3
Olivia, thank you very much for talking to us.
15:45 S8
That is such a pleasure. Lovely to speak with you.
15:53 S3
Oh look, Quantum ROV. It's amazing when we come across old friends in a place like this, isn't it, Lizzie?
15:58 S2
It is. I can't believe it.
16:01 S3
We've got Rene here. So, how've you been going?
16:04 S9
Yeah, good thank you. How are you guys?
16:06 S3
Pretty good. Pretty good. And who are you joined by here today?
16:10 S9
So today I've got Nora, who's a consultant for New South Wales and content consultant from Sydney. And then we've also got Ansh... who is... based in Townsville but is moving South Australia in the new year. And... we'll also be a part of the Quantum team in the new year.
16:29 S3
So where are you based nowadays? You're still at Perth?
16:32 S9
I'm based in Perth. Yeah, that's right.
16:32 S3
Oh, well, welcome to South Australia again. So what have we got on display here today?
16:41 S9
So basically today we have a few wearable magnifiers. So we've got the Iris Inspire and the Vision Buddy. These ones are like VR headsets where you can magnify your live surroundings on the Vision Buddy. You can also watch TV, so you can stream Netflix and Kayo and those sorts of streaming apps straight into the device. And it kind of makes you feel like you're watching a cinema screen. We have a few text-to-speech devices, so we've got the Play Reader, which is the larger text-to-speech device with quite large tactile buttons. And then we've also got the Orcam range, which I think we've spoken about before.
17:17 S3
We've played with it twice before, we did.
17:19 S9
Yes. So we've still got all of those. They've recently released a new OrCam called the OrCam Read Light, which is a simple point and click, but it's under $1,500, so it's under the like consumable amount. So that's exciting. And then coming over a bit more, we've got all of our electronic magnifier range. So we've got the Clover Book range, the Clear Views and then the Compactin as well. And one of the new products that we've got is the Faber Book XL Pro and the Lite model, which is essentially just a larger version of the Clover Book. So it's 16in, and it also has the ability to fold the screen up so that it's at a 90 degree angle to the reader for a more comfortable reading position.
18:03 S3
Yeah, it looks a bit different, but... so, is there anything in here that you're sort of a bit more excited about than other things?
18:10 S9
So, well, I guess we are pretty excited about the Clover Book XL. It's only been out for like a couple of months now. It has text to speech, and you can also do a split screen where it's got distance and near.
S3
Oh wow. Same time.
S9
So that one has been very, very popular today at Techfest and amongst, you know, other people contacting Quantum. But yeah. So I'd probably say that's the main one.
18:33 S3
How big would you say that screen is? I mean, what sort of profile do you think?
18:36 S9
It's 16in.
18:38 S3
Right. So, and that... does that fold up completely so you can say put it in a bag or stuff like that, or...?
18:44 S9
Yeah. So the other cool feature about it is that it does fold down completely, so it folds down flat. And when it's in the case, you could fit it in like a drawer or under it under a desk or something. So it's very easy to put away if you're having like, you know, people coming over or something like that.
18:59 S3
Okay. Now can I have a play with the virtual reality goggles?
S9
Yeah, absolutely.
S3
All right. So this is very good for radio. I'll be describing something very visual. All right. So it's plugged into a mobile phone at the moment.
19:12 S9
So basically the device plugs into it connects to a mobile phone which comes with it.
19:18 S3
So we'll do Lizzy's part now, Lizzy, what do you think of the virtual reality?
19:22 S2
Oh, love it. Absolutely love it.
19:24 S3
You can see things really clearly.
19:26 S2
Are really clearly. It's all black, actually.
19:30 S9
That's the coolest thing.
19:31 S3
Should I have my glasses on or off?
19:32 S9
Take them off.
19:33 S3
Okay. Yep. All right. So if I'm going like that and. Okay. All right.
19:40 S9
So so you've got zoom in and zoom out buttons just off to the, the, um. Yeah. That side there, the very. And you've come forward towards the front of the device. The very top button is zoom in forward plus. Yep. Okay. And the very bottom button is zoom out.
19:57 S3
Oh, cool. Yeah. I'm okay. I'm a ten plus plus now. Okay. And television. Okay. And I'm just doing the technicians thing of just pushing buttons at the moment. But that's fine. Okay. So I can go back and I can go back as far as four, three two okay. So single okay. Cool. Yeah. So it's okay. This thing in the middle is the television mode or, yeah.
20:21 S9
So that goes to the different modes. So if you press it once, it'll go into TV mode. Yes. Yes.
20:27 S3
The Black and White Minstrel show. That's not exactly politically correct anymore, is it.
20:31 S9
So television mode. That basically because it's not connected to a TV at the moment, but basically it would be like a cinema sort of size screen inside. Okay. So it just helps with watching TV and making sure that it's big enough, essentially.
20:46 S3
The only thing I can think is, Okay, so anything I can think really is it's a bit big. It makes you look like a sort of... something in the 2001 or the some science fiction show or something like that.
20:57 S9
So the Iris Inspire's a bit less bulky, but one that we're just trying to get working now. It's... less bulky, so it's a bit nicer to wear, I suppose.
21:09 S3
Anyway, I will get Lizzie to have a bit of a look at these things. So this is what I was just wearing. I think that's the height of fashion.
21:18 S2
Oh, not my style. Sorry. It's not my style at all. Oh, do not do well with this thing. This thing?
21:29 S3
Not at all. Oh. Thanks, guys. Get you bulky. Oh! It's working. Oh, cool.
21:35 S9
Is it Unseen? It's Unseen. Yeah. You can pop those ones on.
21:38 S3
Okay, okay. Yeah. So same sort of function, same principle.
21:42 S9
And then underneath says some buttons just on the underneath the lenses that you can zoom in and zoom out.
21:50 S3
Okay, so basically the same thing if it's plugged into a phone.
21:54 S9
Yeah. For, and that comes with the device when you buy it.
21:57 S3
Gotcha. Gotcha. So what sort of price are we looking at for these things?
22:00 S9
So these are both just over 6000. So like 6200-ish. If getting it funded you might need to look a report written by an OT or an ATS to have it funded. But yeah.
22:14 S3
Okay. All right. And you said you had the new OrCam. What's the difference with the new OrCam?
22:19 S9
So basically... the new one that's just come out is a live version. The live version is just a simple point and click. So it's... it looks exactly the same as the current one. So it's the size of a highlighter band. It's got four buttons along it just on and off volume up and down, and then the capture button. But basically with the Lite model, it's mainly the prod. So it's... like 1450. So it's under the consumable limit for NDIS. So that is probably one of the main benefits.
22:53 S3
We've got the expert on the OrCam over here. So hand that over to Lizzie.
22:56 S9
I'll just turn it on. I've got some text just just in front.
23:01 S3
So put that over there.
23:03 S9
So basically with this one you would hold it sort of like this pointing the flat end down towards the paper. And which button do I press. So the round button down the very bottom. Yep. You press that. And if you hold it up to you you hold down the circle button.
23:19 S10
So it's specifically for people with low vision, daylight lamps a bright, light comfortable light that simulates sunlight, providing the best illumination and contrast required for what Lily calls taking a table and floor lamp, or even a lamp with a magnifier. Our lighting selection is designed to provide comfortable lighting for your eyes.
23:39 S9
So this was, quite loud in here - it's a little bit hard to hear, but that we essentially just read out everything that was captured in the photo.
23:48 S2
That is so cool, I love it. I need to get me one of them there. I can read my mail.
23:53 S3
You'll get a phone call. There we go.
23:55 S9
They're pretty portable as well.
23:59 S2
So because they're so small, you can just put it in your handbag?
24:00 S9
Pretty much.
24:00 S2
Yeah. You go. It's just there's...
24:03 S3
Something similar that you can, like, fit to a pair of glasses or something like that.
24:06 S9
Mm, yeah. So there is the OrCam MyEye t3, which is why it's right here. So that is essentially the a wearable version of the OrCam. So you can do text to speech on it. And then this one here, you can also use it to recognise faces and... trainers. So you can also have like read barcodes and things like that.
24:25 S3
That'll save me some a whole lot of awkward conversation, so I can never recognise anybody.
24:29 S9
No, the facial recognition is pretty cool.
24:32 S2
In theory, if I went to a restaurant or something and, you know, for whatever reason, I was by myself and I needed to read a menu, I could do it with that or can I?
24:43 S9
Yeah, you can do it. Yeah. So you can do that with the wearable one or the handheld ones.
24:47 S2
Well, I like the handheld. That's dainty. It's much more my style. Yeah.
24:52 S3
Does it have... Mr. Squiggle feature where it says Upside down, miss J?
24:55 S9
It can read if the text is upside down, so it'll break it up for you.
24:59 S3
Wonderful, wonderful. Oh.
25:01 S9
Thanks, guys. That's okay.
25:08 S3
So, Kevin, as an optometrist, how are you finding all this? Is this anything new or interesting here for you?
S10
I'm always learning something new in the low vision space. It's, I mean, just talking over on the other side before there. There's a lot of the computer stuff. I learned the Dolphin. Was it called Dolphin Guy? Dolphin Guy? Canal. That was interesting. I didn't realise we had that. I have so many patients who come in that I just want to check my emails, and I want to do this. I'm like, I don't know how to help you with this section, but there you go. But it's good to know about that stuff. So yeah, I mean, I recently had a chat with my manager. I'm tempted to drop shadow, so maybe I'll be with you, be with Karen or somebody just to learn more about perspective. I only started it was definitely like, hi. So definitely earlier this year. So I'm relatively new to the space.
S3
All right. How long have you been an optometrist for?
S10
I'm on almost my second year now.
S3
Okay. Yeah. How's a good place to start dealing with all that's difficult, visually impaired people?
S10
I have experience elsewhere as well. Specsavers and teach at uni as well. Do a variety of different things. So yeah, it's nice. I do enjoy seeing a different vision a lot though, because I get to spend time with people going through and trying to say what's going on with them. It's really nice when I can provide a solution. But you know, that's the great thing about working studio. For me, it's multidisciplinary, so I can't do something. I'm sure somebody else can talk about some other aspect in their life there. And usually when they're referred to us for optometry, it's because other optometrists have said there's nothing more I could do. They come to us and the optometrist doesn't necessarily offer them an optometry solution. They offer them all these other solutions.
S3
They think of them as well.
26:48 S10
Exactly. Something new, something different that you can't get in mainstream optometry. Well, I suppose if something's not quite in your ballpark, you're in a position to actually call somebody who might be able to help them. Exactly. That's the biggest, I guess, perk of working here, that I'm not alone. And it's a... team effort.
27:06 S1
This is Studio 1 on Vision Australia radio.
27:11 S3
Hello. David Woodbridge.
S11
Hello.
S3
What brings you over here? And why aren't you with Vision Australia anymore?
S11
Oh, because I am now with Humanware as the blind specialist product person. So I'm in charge of all the promoting of the Braille stuff and the speech stuff for Australia and New Zealand. So here at Techfest, I'm here to talk to people and demonstrate all the really cool Braille and speech stuff from Hemingway, including the monarch.
S3
So we've got Lizzie here with me, and I'm, of course, I'm visually impaired. Lizzie would love to have a bit of a look at your wares. You've got something here. It's that one sign in between. You said that one's the actual Mantis. Yeah.
27:53 S2
Which is... how does this work?
27:56 S3
So that's your... keyboard.
27:57 S2
Oh, I love this. I like this Braille keyboard.
28:00 S3
And the display down the bottom.
S11
Yep. So that's one of the modes. So basically that's perfect for using your Jaws on Windows.
S3
So does it have Jaws on it?
28:11 S11
No no no. So you link it up to via Bluetooth or USB to your windows computer.
28:15 S2
But you wouldn't have to use Jaws, right?
28:17 S11
No, to work... no no no.
28:19 S2
So how do we turn it on?
28:21 S11
Via a really soft button on the side. Because it's part of the case. I think it's gone flat.
28:27 S2
Oh, maybe it has.
28:29 S3
It has got flat.
28:30 S2
Yeah. Oh, no.
28:32 S3
This has got this silicon keyboard on it. It's really hard to press the button.
28:36 S2
Yeah. It's not...
28:38 S11
Hey, listen, I wasn't demonstrating this. Thank you very much. All right, hang on. Let me just take that away. Thank you. Number one, you get three.
S3
Do I get three? Do I?
S11
All right, so hang on. All right, so in that case, you can have that one. Oh, that's a 20 cell a 20 cell bra. 20. So it's a by 20. Yeah.
29:01 S2
So far manager. Yeah. So he feels...
29:06 S3
Pretty good detail.
29:09 S2
Date and time. Yep. Okay. So how does this work?
29:14 S11
And like I have a similar Braille device. It's got terminal mode. So you can leave it up to windows Mac, Android or iPhone.
S3
Will it be any good for reading radio scripts? That's what I want to know.
S11
It would be good for reading radio scripts. Edit but the only thing is, I mean, this one is...
29:32 S2
What is that.
29:34 S3
The RF?
29:35 S2
Yes, it's is [?Cbirf]. Yeah.
29:36 S3
So it's KY Braille and beer up in many read Braille... resource files.
29:42 S2
So we're back to Brazil.
29:43 S11
Yeah. But I won't show you the terminal mode, because if I show you the terminal mode, you'll be able to see what's on my iPhone.
29:49 S2
I don't want to do that. So, please, what are the functions that I'm going through? So there's online services.
29:57 S11
The online services takes you to the Vision Australia library.
30:00 S2
Okay. Oh really cool. Auctions.
30:03 S11
So Auctions are just basically settings.
30:06 S2
It's options or date and time. I think oh yeah. Calculator key calc I think. Yeah. Calculator.
30:14 S11
The general idea is...
30:15 S2
File manager.
30:16 S11
Yeah. So you can see what files are on either on a USB stick or on an SD card or in the internal memory. Okay. So that's for that's for typing in direct rail whereas the editor is like a general word processor.
30:32 S2
Okay. So does this machine have the capability to like go into document and edit and create a document?
S11
Yes it does. It does.
S2
Is that done through the Braille editor?
30:42 S11
Both. Both the editor and the Braille is there.
30:44 S2
Okay, cool. Oh, brilliant. Oh, yeah. Editor. Keypad. So this is where you create the document?
S11
Correct.
30:53 S3
Cool. Yep. And if you want to, you can link it up to a printer or a Braille embosser and boss that stuff and have coffee with it.
30:59 S2
So how much would this set me back if I wanted to get...
31:02 S11
That one's $3,000, which compared to other Braille devices, is actually fairly cheap because they're only doing the focus 14 sells for 3400, and it's only a 14 cell display, whereas this is 3000. If you actually had, if you had your hands on the Monarch. Yep. No. All right. Hang on. Let me just try and move this stuff around a bit.
S3
That's the Monarch, right? I can get rid of that.
31:31 S2
This is huge. So this is what...?
31:34 S11
This is a ten line multi-line Braille display.
31:38 S2
Currently it doesn't say a lot. It just says...
31:40 S11
No, no, it's a bar. It's a bar chart. It's a bar chart. But if I press the home button to go back to the login screen, that's your main menu. There you go. Okay. Is he...
31:53 S2
All right. It's it's very large, square in a leather case. I would compare it to the size of a picture frame. Yep. Very good. It's got ten lines of Braille and a standard Braille keyboard on the front.
32:16 S3
There are three buttons there, which is go from left to right. Is back home in residence like an Android device, which sadly seems quite. I play with being an Android user myself.
S11
That's right. There is some other buttons on the right hand side. Yep. There is a... so if you come to the top here that's up. That's up and down. Left and right arrow. Yep. And the one below it is page up and page down by ten lines.
32:43 S2
Oh my goodness. It's that is all. That is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Oh it's making noises as the thing is moving.
S11
Correct. Now it says to, because what it's doing, it's refreshing the whole display, to drop the jar for...
33:00 S3
Some of you referred to today as having a fly on a fly screen, that's apparently it's down to make it.
33:07 S2
To drop the jar. Somebody I'm not good with Braille here. Somebody underneath so managed to put it into one. What is this? Oh, I don't know.
33:18 S3
Hang on, give me a ride.
33:19 S2
I think it's some sort of story or like...
33:23 S3
Let's say two drop the jar and then somebody and then you put it into another Coupled as she. What the hell's this? Cupboard.
33:36 S6
Cheers.
33:37 S14
Wait a minute.
33:39 S2
It's some sort of story.
33:41 S3
Yeah. This is it true? It's also Wonderland. Thank you. Yeah. Come on.
33:46 S6
There's so much land. No.
33:49 S2
Not really.
33:50 S3
What? No. Oh, dear.
33:52 S2
I don't remember.
33:54 S3
You don't remember? Oh, dear. That's what people pretend to say. So.
33:57 S2
So what are you saying, so...?
33:59 S11
So does my eyebrow. It does. Tactile graphics does. Drawings.
34:03 S2
Could you show me a drawing?
34:05 S11
Yeah, sure. Right. Yeah. So what? I'm going to show you something really weird initially. So there you go. Now, look. So when you normally open an image up, it's what are called thumbnails on the screen. Yeah. So these are thumbnails of different shapes.
34:19 S2
So there's a dot.
34:21 S11
Well there's actually a circle.
34:22 S2
A square.
34:23 S11
A square.
34:24 S2
A triangle. No it doesn't really look like a triangle. Is that an image. That's an arrow.
34:30 S11
But remember, this is a thumbnail. So if I zoom in. So if you press plus button there it'll make the images much bigger for you.
34:38 S2
There you go. Okay. Now where is my. Okay, so this was the star.
34:44 S11
Yeah. So remember I told you about that d pad on the side, the up and down, left and right arrow. Yeah. You can explore the whole screen to see all the sides of all the images, because they won't fit on one display and you feel them moving around when you move out. When you move the up and down arrow, you can feel it moving on the screen. So does this, um, support just drawings or can it, um, support things like photographs and stuff like that? Not photographs, but just like drawings. Yeah. So you could do PDF files, PNG files and JPEG.
35:14 S2
That is so. And how much does this cost?
35:17 S11
That's the odds about 27,000. But if you think about it, if you're reading a radio script or something else, you've got ten lines of straight script rather than having to go. Paint, paint, paint about 2040. 2047, by the way, you've got the whole ten lines there. So you know what?
35:33 S2
Honestly, I actually found the painting easier. Yeah, yeah, that ten lines is just. Oh my head is buzzing with it.
35:40 S11
I switch between multi-line and for 20 and 40 cells at a time. To me, I'm so used to reading stuff in multiline braille. Now that I feel cheated when I go back to my single line one now.
S3
Hello, Shawn. And you're from Apple?
S12
I'm from Apple. Yes, yes. All right. And so your name was Sam. Sam. Your name was Lizzie. How are you going, Lizzie? How are you? Yeah. Good. Good. Nice to meet you. So Lizzie is totally blind and visually impaired. Okay. So you've got the worst of both worlds as far as it goes. Great. All right, let's do this. Yeah. Impress us. Okay. Sure. In magnifier. So if you're using, say, for example, like an iPhone Pro model, you've got the LiDAR scanner. So that does some different things with the detection within magnifier. So what I'm going to do I'm going to tap on detect. And what will do is I'm going to come up closer to the door.
Standing on a gray carbon couch, a black bag on a wooden surface.
36:42 S2
And...
36:42 S3
Turn on doors.
36:45 S12
One door, five metres.
36:46 S3
Okay, so it's detecting that there's a door and three metres away.
36:52 S2
So that's giving us that audio feedback as well.
36:53 S12
As well. Swing door three metres. Door three metres. Turn handle or knob. Switch. Select door 13in, three inch a seat.
37:04 S3
I was like, fine, we've got furniture that's enabled. So now if I look at those chairs, it's telling me the distance that that chair is away from us, which is 2.5m. But it's also telling us that that chair.
37:17 S12
Chair two metres as well. Now, if somebody's sitting on that chair, it will tell us that it's occupied.
37:23 S2
Go sit on the chair.
37:24 S3
You're gonna have to help us find and put it that way.
37:28 S2
This way.
37:29 S3
Awesome. Okay.
37:31 S12
Cherokee, five metres.
37:33 S2
That is the coolest.
37:35 S3
That's cool. Hey. So, chair occupied.
37:39 S2
Does it recognise dogs?
37:41 S3
Ah, okay. We could test it out. Let's test it out. I'm gonna tap on scenes.
37:46 S13
A pair of black chairs on a wooden floor. A black dog on a leash, standing on a concrete surface. A bad dog.
37:53 S3
Because the surface is wrong. Because it's not concrete.
37:57 S12
Attached to a black dog. The person holding the leash attached to a black dog lying on a wooden surface. A group of people standing in line to the fence.
38:07 S3
So this is available with the latest iOS updates over the air. So the section I'll just turn that off. So detection. Yeah. If you have the newest versions of phones specifically if you if you've got the Pro models because of the LiDAR scanner, that will do extra detection things like furniture, doors and it also does people as well.
38:32 S2
I've got a 13 and it's not a Pro.
38:34 S3
Yeah. So no. So the 13 won't give you that level of detection. So these glasses things, if they actually did work what would they, what would they do?
38:47 S12
So they basically like, seeing AI and the OrCam MyEye, they do a lot of what they do so that you put them on and they've got speakers inside. So they're, they're Meta - based on, you know, Facebook Meta. So the AI is quite extensive from that, all the information it's got from it. So you can either tap or you can and you can say... Hey Meta, tell me what you see. And if it was working.
39:19 S3
Right, right. So this in theory. So something like Lizzie who can't see anything, for example, might be able to sort of ask, um, to look at something or. Yeah.
39:29 S12
So you can ask it to tell you what you see. And in this example, it would probably say, I see a table full with products with cups and Scrabble game and things like that, and then you can say what's on the left of the Scrabble and it can describe that there's another game there and that's it. And you can ask it further questions about the things it sees. So you could say, um, for example, it's it's said there are three mugs on the table. You could say describe the mugs or something like that. And you get better at learning how to ask it questions as well. Like anything, I like ChatGPT and those sorts of things. You get better at learning how to ask questions that it will be able to respond to, and it can give you more and more information as you get more likely.
So, for example, it's got... some books in front of it. You could say, Is there anything written on the books? And it can at this stage, as far as I know, it won't read a whole page of text. It will give you a summary, so use your eye. It gives you a summary of the page of text. But if enough people say, Hey, we want to be able to read the whole page, then they might suddenly decide that that's a feature they add. So it runs off your phone. Okay. So your phone's doing most of the hard work. It's just a, basically a camera that's attached to Bluetooth and that that's the phone has an app.
40:55 S3
So these are available at, um, optometry offices or...
40:59 S12
Yes. So I think it's OPSM and Laubman and Paint. Is that right? Michaels. OPSM. All right. Yeah. And you can go in and just buy them off the shelf. You can get them with your prescription in... you can get them. There are, I think, five different types of frames and like, a stack of different colours as well. And they're around $500. Okay. Yeah. So it can they can do translation so you can hold up, say a piece of text in German, say translate to English. And it can do that.
41:33 S3
You'd be able to read better than I could.
41:34 S2
Oh yeah. Yeah.
41:36 S12
It'll read better than most of us can. Yeah.
41:38 S2
That's it.
41:38 S12
So it's great that we've actually got a trial pair. They unfortunately don't do all of the things that we'd love them to, to be able to demo the whole thing, but they're designed for the optometrist, the area. So mostly just for the look and the feel of the glasses themselves.
42:00 S3
So who am I talking to now?
42:01 S13
Hi, my name is Leanne, I'm from Magnifiers Australia.
42:04 S3
So I could ask what you sell, but it's quite obvious in front of me. Magnifiers.
42:07 S13
Yes, we are what we say on the tin. We sell magnifiers. We bring in the Eschenbach magnifiers. And we also sell daylight lighting. Lighting can be really important in terms of low vision as well as magnification. So you have both parts of that.
42:24 S3
We just had our house refitted with some new lighting, it's completely changed the way we do things. So but the lighting is specifically with the magnifiers. Or do you sell lighting on its own?
42:35 S13
No, we sell lighting on its own as well. So, but only in terms of lamps. We don't do anything in terms of ceiling lights or anything like that. But we sell what we call task lamps. So they are designed to sit over the task that you're trying to do, whether that be reading or... sewing or something along those lines. And so to illuminate a specific task.
42:59 S3
Are [?debuted] different to something I can pick up at, say, Kmart or Bunnings or something like that?
43:03 S13
There are two main differences. The first one would be if it has a magnifier in it as well, like the lights that have magnifiers too. So you generally can't get those at Bunnings or Kmart. And if you can, the quality of the lens would certainly not be as good as the quality of the daylight lens.
43:20 S3
Yes. You're giving me flashbacks to Christmases past where people thought they were doing a good thing anyway.
43:26 S13
Yes, exactly. The second thing was the daylight lightingis, most of it now has the ability to have more than one colour temperature. So you can have a warm light, you can have a cool light, and you can have something in the middle between the two. The reason that that's really useful, obviously some people prefer one over the other, but you also might find that somebody needs a really bright white light when they are doing a task, but then they want to dial down that intensity and that color for when they're watching the television, for instance. So it's... the warmer light tends to be more ambient light. And then the cooler light tends to really illuminate whatever it is you're working on. So the daylight lights often have the three light temperatures.
44:14 S3
So let's move on to the magnifiers themselves. You've got a number of different ones here. This is an interesting looking one in here in front of me. What is... yeah, it looks like a pair of... weird glasses.
44:25 S13
It does look like a pair of weird glasses. It's called the Max TV. It has two lenses, so one in front of the other, which is actually a Galilean telescope system. You can adjust it on either side. So you focus it so that it focuses for, for your needs. It is focused at about... 3 to 4m away. So it's designed for watching the television, particularly for people who are in a situation that doesn't allow them to just bring the television closer to themselves. So social situation where that's not possible. This will enable someone to watch the television from the couch.
45:04 S3
How would it go with subtitles?
45:07 S13
Yeah. No, it doesn't go with subtitles that are... in which case you need to go over there to Apple and get them to show you how to put the subtitles up. So. Yeah, but... that's what that's for.
S3
So can I have a go?
S13
Yeah, of course you can.
45:23 S3
All right. I'll take these off.
45:24 S13
Take those off. Put those on. So you'll need to delete your just on either side where that little cog is.
45:31 S3
Okay, I got you. Yep.
45:33 S13
So it should focus at about 3 or 4m away.
45:36 S3
Yes, yes. I'm just sort of focusing on the sign over there. It's the sign. Yep. So... what will be the magnification on these?
45:46 S13
There are two times.
45:47 S3
Two times. Okay. Okay. That's an interesting effect.
45:51 S13
It works for some people, not for others. But, absolutely. It's handy to have, for some people that want to watch TV. The other magnifiers that we have here are mainly our bread and butter range. So we've got our three and a half times Eschenbach Monoblocks, which is the most sold magnifier in the country as a handheld magnifier.
46:12 S3
So it's got a essentially a battery and a torch in there.
46:16 S13
It's got a light. Yep. And it's a three and a half times. We find that this, for some reason, is the real sweet spot for people. So it's powerful enough for three and a half times to be useful. But it's also got the nice big field of view because it's a rectangular lens as opposed to some of the more powerful ones, which then became a round lens. Yeah, so it's much more natural to read with a rectangular lens, but unfortunately, optics is such that you can't make a really powerful magnifier with an optical lens in a rectangle over about a four times.
46:53 S3
Right. Okay. I was wondering about that because, yes... all mine are tend to be round. So yes. Yes.
46:59 S13
Yeah. So and they get quite small as well - as they go up in power, they get quite small.
47:04 S3
It's also a powerful one you got.
47:05 S13
That's a 12.5 tall. So that's a 50 diopter. But you have to use something that like that's that powerful. Very close to you. Right.
47:16 S3
I suppose introduce yourself...
47:17 S14
Good afternoon. It's Quentin, the Training and Support Manager for NV Access...
47:23 S15
And James, General Manager of NV Access.
47:25 S3
So I don't think we need to explain very much what you guys do. Otherwise Lizzy can explain it.
47:30 S14
Well, it's a screen reader and a very good one at that. I use it on my computer, and I've been able to do a lot of audio editing and stuff with it.
47:41 S3
Is there anything these your stuff can't do? That's the interesting thing. I mean, have you found limitation?
47:46 S15
Oh look, we are always working on improving what it can do and ensuring that it can work with the latest versions of all the popular software and Microsoft Windows. So we we work with the Windows Insider builds, for instance, so you can use it on the latest versions of Windows 11. I was just talking with someone recently who's got one of the new co-pilot, uh, PCs with the, you know, arm Snapdragon Dragon processes and it works very well on those as well.
48:19 S14
So we certainly get a lot of input from our users and our user community about new features and new, you know, things we can do to work with different software, your apps, all that sort of things that they want to want to sort of work with. So we're always open to that feedback and try and find ways to incorporate features that users want is with video. So yes, I mean.
48:43 S3
One of the big differences I've noticed between you guys and say other... text to voice things is that you're not very memory hungry, as it were. I mean, is there a particular secret to that or...?
48:54 S14
Well, it's the nature of the software itself, you know, it's the way it's programmed. It's its size, how much space it takes up. It's lightweight by comparison. So yeah, certainly helps with the overall performance of the computer while using NVDA. So yeah.
49:10 S3
And you guys cost absolutely nothing. That's the thing that always surprises me is that so what's the financial model here?
49:16 S15
Exactly. So, yeah, I can talk to that. I think, so we are a registered charity, Australia, and the access is the registered charity in Australia. So we have a model whereby the partnerships, the sponsorship with Microsoft, Google and Adobe. Additionally, we have received donations from lots of different people. We have foundation funding as well as philanthropic support. We've also... do consultancy work from time to time, which is fee for service as well as we have our training material, which we we sell, which is only, you know, relatively low cost, 32 AUD.
But still those income streams are diverse, wide range of income streams to make sure we're sustainable. We're here for the long term and that we're able to invest in our capacity and improve. NVDA, make sure it meets the needs of our users somewhere around for the long term.
50:09 S2
So for those that don't know, what does NVDA stand for?
50:12 S15
It stands for Non-Visual Desktop Access. So it's an acronym. There's lots of things that are in this sector is appreciate. Yeah. But yeah. So NV Access is the organisation the charity. But we develop, maintain, distribute NVDA. So yes.
50:28 S2
And how long has NVDA been on the market?
50:30 S14
We started in 2006. Mick and Jamie, our founders, started developing and building NVDA in 2006. So it's been around that long. So, you know, it's grown to be a substantial, substantial impact on usage all around the world. So NVDA is now used in at least 125 different countries. And it's been translated to 55 different languages. And that's largely part and due to the nature of NVDA itself, because it's while it's free, it's also open source. So open source software means that... we make the software open to contributions from the wider community who are passionate and very active User community and contributor community from all around the world. Developers, lots of them themselves, are blind or visually impaired, and they contribute to making sure NvVDA can be what it can be.
51:23 S3
So yes. Has there been a piece of software that surprised you, that suddenly has become compatible or is like, Oh, I wasn't expecting that!
51:31 S15
Well, that's a good question. I think we do we do often hear from people saying, Oh, I use such and such a software, and it works great with the media, which is, which is really good because I know it's very hard. Occasionally we get asked, Oh, is there a list of software that works with Nvda and we don't have one? So I think that would be a full time job just keeping that up. But one of the secrets, I think, is that we try and work with all of the various standards that exist for, for different types of software. And so as long as you're making your software, uh, and keeping some of those in mind, it actually should work just fine out of the box. And so that is really good when that happens.
52:16 S3
That's a wrap for this week. A special thank you to Andrew Davies and the team at See Differently.
52:21 S2
And of course thank you for listening. Next week we talk to Sean from SPO solutions about the work he does, training people who are blind or low vision in using technology.
52:32 S3
But between now and then, please do get in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of any of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio 1, or if you think there's something we should be talking about, you never know - your story and insight may help somebody else who is feeling something similar.
52:46 S2
You can email us at studio1@visionaustralia.org - that's studio number one at Vision Australia dot org - or of course you can search for us on our social media at Instagram, Facebook or by looking up VA Radio Network.
53:02 S3
Until next week. Bye for now.
53:04 S1
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
