Election access, paralympic grants, physical and mental health research

00:06 Elise

Hi I'm Elise Rossetti OAM, Olympic gold medallist and Head of Performance Strategy at Paralympics Australia. And you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

00:40 Peter

It's just gone 5:00. And with all the talk about tariffs and trade, only a warm welcome brings you to Leisure Link - here on Vision Australia Radio 1197 AM Adelaide... also on the Reading Radio Network through the TuneIn radio app - look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide. You can also find us via Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin... our friends listening through 103.9 Hope FM, Esperance in Western Australia... and also listening on the Disability Media Australia network - they're a website as well, Powerd Media, media electric is there, lots of other great information as well. 

Peter Greco saying, wonderful to be here for the next 90 minutes. Please forget all about the talk of tariffs and trade. Just a very warm welcome to you and some great guests such as this program coming to you from Kaurna Land. We'll catch up with Elise - OAM, gold medallist at the Olympic Games, now also involved with Paralympic Australia, telling us about the Paralympic Athlete Barrier Grant - a great chance for athletes, we'll hear that good news very very shortly. 

We'll catch up with Kelly Schultz from Knowable Me - accessible voting. Kelly would like to find out your experience or maybe what you'd like to see happen. Max Taylor will join us - a young student from high school who's looking to design a handle to make cooking safer for people blind or low vision. A chance for you to get involved with Max's research. David Mitchell will join us, our health commentator. David's topic is CANdida or CanDIda? Say it however you like. Belinda Hellyer will join us from Brewed by Belinda, the brew that is true - to talk about Earl Grey tea. Looking forward to that. 

Then we'll catch up with Dr Andrew Wilson, who will talk to us about a number of people being still very reluctant to talk about their mental health issues. We'll find out much more about Doctor Andrew, who's a psychiatrist.... and we'll then be joined by Monica Ferrie, who will talk to us about a really interesting blood test that's just been made available for Sickle Cell Disease for youngsters. This can be early diagnosis, which can mean better outcomes. 

It's always great to go behind the scenes and find out what's going on as far as our Paralympic athletes go. It's really great to welcome to the program, Elise Rechichi, who's the Olympic gold medalist, but also heads up our Paralympic Strategy at Paralympics Australia. Elise, lovely to meet you, thank you for your time.

03:16 Elise

Thank you, Peter, for having me.

03:17 Peter

How's the role going? I guess you know, Brisbane is kind of the end goal at this stage.

03:22 Elise

Yeah. It's a very... extremely exciting time in... sport in Australia, but particularly Paralympic sport., as we head towards the Brisbane 2032 Games. I'm sure you would have seen, you know, with the... federal government announcement last year of a big increase in investment into para sport, there's lots of exciting work underway to really set us on a course to winning well at our best games ever in Brisbane. So I'm very excited and privileged to lead a great team, along with our partners who are doing great work to bring that to life.

03:52 Peter

Something like $54 million. That sounds a lot of money, but I guess there's lots of areas that are needing it.

03:57 Elise

There are, and... there was a very significant piece of work done by... the sector, which was largely informed by a very... over 160 current and former para athletes who, collectively... identified many barriers to entry and progression for para athletes trying to enter into and progress through sport in Australia. So the 54 million is designed to address some of the systemic and structural challenges as we head towards... Brisbane to enable para athletes to really make the most of their talents. And very excitingly, one of the initiatives announced this week, is the launch of the Para Athletes Barriers Fund. 

And so while most of the work is, you know, around building a sustainable system over the medium to long term for para sport, we recognise that we need to do more to support our current... para athletes. So, the announcement of that fund this week, is a really exciting step. And we hope that that will enable them to overcome some of the individual barriers that they experience, at the moment in para sport.

05:02 Peter

There's a bit of a saying in sport, isn't there, that talent isn't enough. And I guess, you know, sometimes finance can play a role as well.

05:09 Elise

Yeah, definitely. And... we know that in the course of our journey, you know, towards Brisbane, that in addressing these big structural and systemic challenges that our future para athletes will have a much, hopefully a journey that is, you know, with far fewer barriers, you know, including the financial barriers. And so that's why, you know, the... launch of the Para Barriers Fund this week is designed to not only overcome some of the individual barriers that our current athletes are facing, but to, as you said, to alleviate some of that financial pressure as well.

05:40 Peter

But for a very kind of like holistic or national approach, isn't it, in terms of the collaboration with the states and territories. And it's very much a, you know, Australia first... policy, if I can put it that way.

05:51 Elise

It really is. And I'm glad it's sort of being seen that way, because it truly is... a new way of working for the Australian high performance sport system that is really founded on purposeful partnership, where you know every organisation, be it the Australian Sports Commission and the AIS, all of our state institutes and academies of sport, all of our Nsos and of course Paralympics Australia are playing a role, each investing in and collectively working together to really deliver this as a truly system-wide response to support our para athletes - and as I said, support our, hopefully our goal of best games ever in Brisbane.

06:25 Peter

I guess it kind of speaks aloud a message in two ways - one to the athletes, and to people in disabilities in general, but also to the broader community about the abilities of people with disabilities, the importance of inclusion. Is that kind of a double-edged sword with... lots of potential benefits?

06:43 Elise

Yeah, it really is. And I think, you know, we're really grateful to the Federal Minister, Minister Wells, for having recognised the opportunity. And I think one of the things that we really hope to showcase as a sector is that with you know, the eight year runway now to Brisbane, that this system-wide collaboration and really systemic response can showcase how really effective change can happen within an ecosystem. And we hope that one of the legacies of this on the other side of Brisbane will be, we can tell that story about how we really came together at a policy level, at a national level, and worked really earnestly and collaboratively, you know, to enable para athletes to showcase... the very best of their talents to Australian, the Australian community... and to the world. 

And we know that, you know, that that will, that's a really important mission and it will make a really big difference.

07:34 Peter

Yeah. Well, it certainly sounds very, very exciting. And I guess in a sense, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, as in the gold medal tally or the medal tally. But I'm sure there are much more performance indicators as well as that that will be taken into account.

07:46 Elise

Yeah. Well, as I am absolutely - of course we are, we're here to win. And that's the important part of... the, you know, aspirational Olympic and Paralympic Games and of course, Commonwealth Games as well, and pretty much any sort of high performance sport in Australia. But the philosophy, you know, about, about collective national strategy is, win well - where how we win is as important as what we win. And so... the experiences of our athletes and the experiences of all the staff and all the team, you know, behind the team in Australia and really ensuring the wellbeing of everyone, you know, athletes, coaches and all staff is as important... as making progress to our ambition of, you know, of... our best games ever in medal terms as well.

08:30 Peter

I know the fund was just announced this week, and thanks for speaking to us so soon after the announcement. But... can you give us a bit of an idea how it works? I mean, who can access it, how they can access it? What's the kind of... criteria has that kind of, you know, be sort of nutted out?

08:42 Elise

Oh, it is available... on the Australian Sports Commission website. And again, we're really grateful to our partners there, who we've worked with and together, you know, informed by our athletes, our voices around how this will work to best meet the needs of our athletes. But the first, or the, it's a one-off... pool of 325,000. It's available to all current categorised para athletes in Australia. The maximum grant is up to $4,000 for any individual. And it's really if our athletes are para athletes can demonstrate how, you know, this grant could allow them to overcome an individual barrier that they're experiencing, then... that's sort of the primary criteria. 

So any categorised athlete, para athlete in Australia who feels like that, they, you know, have any of those barriers that have been identified where this could... potentially support them, then I really encourage them to consider applying.

09:37 Peter

Individual or team, makes no difference.

09:39 Elise

It's not available to organisations. This is really the fund that is really designed to go straight to the athletes. So that might be... an athlete, or that might be an athlete in a team. As I said, it's... direct, it's direct to athletes.

09:52 Peter

And this is it, at this stage for summer athletes or athletes?

09:57 Elise

No, it's for summer and winter. 

Peter

Okay. Yeah. 

Elise

Which is.... great.

10:02 Peter

Well, it is, isn't it? Because often and, you know, I guess we're all guilty of it in a sense, because the summer games tend to sort of dominate in terms of numbers and also publicity. We... sometimes, you know, not necessarily on purpose if you like, but we perhaps aren't to look at the... winter athletes or the athletes involved in winter sport.

10:21 Elise

Yeah. Well, we we certainly want to make sure that that's not the case. And, you know, while we obviously talk a lot about Brisbane and this week there's been a lot of focus on Brisbane. But you know, our winter team, which we're very excited to see perform in Milan-Cortina in less than a year's time, is very much our priority alongside our summer athletes. And indeed, you know, the very next Games where we'll get to... witness the awesome performance of our para athletes will be at the Winter Games, so very much available to both winter and summer athletes.

10:50 Peter

You're listening to Leisure Link, here on Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network. And we're speaking to Olympic gold medallist Elise Rechichi OAM. Elise, when you won gold back in... Beijing in 2008, just 17 years ago, not very long ago, did you kind of think that the career ahead of you... was there, or how did that sort of... getting into this sort of sport come about?

11:12 Elise

Mm, no, I don't... think I could have risen to that. Was it 17 years ago or 18 years ago? Nearly. It feels like a long time ago, hmm, now. I didn't... I took a break from sport after I stopped in London, and I worked in sort of different sector for a period of time, and then came back to sport through my... own sport of sailing. And then if it worked across a number of [?], and then this role with Paralympics Australia just over coming up three and a half years ago. 

And I think, you know, I have a deep connection, you know, to... sport. And I feel really personally invested, you know, and really in the Paralympic movement, you know - I believe that we have the potential to, you know, to be the very best in Australia in both Olympic and Paralympic sport. And our Olympic and Paralympic athletes deserve, you know, every opportunity to demonstrate everything they're capable of. And, you know, this is a really exciting time, you know... for Paralympic sport in Australia. And I think as we see community attitudes, you know, have shifted so much that the value of the Paralympic movement is really recognised and celebrated and really held up, you know, as it should be. 

So... and that's only going to grow as we head towards Brisbane. So it's amazing to be part of it. I love being part of the Paralympic community and um, and feel very welcomed and, you know, and it's a brilliant mob to be part of.

12:30 Peter

We've talked about the Summer Games, Winter Games, Olympic, Paralympic. I guess at the root of it, if I could put it that way, right down at the very soul of it, they're all athletes. I was going to say we're all athletes, but a bit too presumptuous of me to put myself in that category. But they're all athletes, you know, we're all kind of, you know, competition and wanting to do well and training hard. That's kind of all just in our DNA.

12:52 Elise

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, you know, having the Brisbane games, you know, in, you know, in Australia and on home soil in 2032 is going to enable us to show the very best of Australia and the very best of the athletic talent we have, you know, available, you know, whether you're an Olympic athlete or a Paralympic athlete. And I think that's going to be a really, you know, a moment in time and I hope it has, and I believe it will make a huge impact on our community and... the broader global community.

13:20 Peter

Elise, sounds like you're very, very busy, which I understand. Do you get much of a chance to think back and relive 2008, the gold medal that the whole sort of... stuff that goes with it - did you get much chance to kind of... reflect and bask in the glory, if I can put it that way?

13:37 Elise

Oh, I think, you know, there are many moments and in sharing many, you know, sort of sharing parts of many of our athletes journey now, you know. It certainly reminds me of my experience ... and also, I'm really proud that we have come, you know, we have come a long way in the sports system in a, you know, in female sport, whether it's Paralympic sport, there are many things that, you know, 17 years ago I think we wouldn't see today. And that's... you know, as we've kind of grown and progressed and matured. So it's nice to be you know, I often think you can only make change from the inside. 

And so it's really great to be in a position where I can have a positive influence on high performance sport in Australia and on Paralympic sport. And my kids actually just did do their first sailing course for the first time over summer in Perth. So I was back at my home club where I started sailing 30 years ago, myself. So it was... it sort of come full circle, and I was sort of nice to connect back to... sailing through my kids.

14:33 Peter

I know, no pressure. I mean, you know, as a Mum, you can't say too much, In my day, or I do it, I did it this way, or I used to do that. You probably have to sort of, you know, be a bit guarded in how you... talk about yourself.

14:49 Elise

Oh yeah. My daughter, certainly is not up... for getting any advice from me. 

Peter

So it's difficult then? 

Elise

Yes. She made that very clear that she... did not want any advice from Mum. And actually the couple of the other kids in the course said to her, Charlotte, your Mum is an Olympic gold medalist, you probably should listen to her. But no, I think, you know, everyone has to chart their own course. And I think as a good sporting parent, I will support them. And, you know, the most important thing is, they have fun. And I certainly won't be... overstepping from the sidelines.

15:20 Peter

There might come a day when she might say, Hey, Mum, actually, you remember back when you told me that, you're probably right, but I didn't realise at the time.

15:27 Elise

Yeah.

15:28 Peter

That might nearly be as good as winning a gold medal... at least. Great. Now, if people do want to find out more about the fund, as you say, it's just been launched. What's the kind of... place that we can point them to, if they do want to find out more?

15:41 Elise

There is a link by the Paralympics Australia website, and also it is available on the Australian Sports Commission website. Or if you google para athletes barriers fund... it's the first thing that comes up. So... for anyone who is interested, applications are opened... last week... and close... on the 5th of May. So, encourage them to really have a look and think about how they might be able to support them.

16:07 Peter

Well, I know we're in political times, but it's certainly great that this particular government and this particular time has made those funds available. So well done to Anika Wells and the government for doing that at least. Great to chat to you. First time we've spoken. I've really enjoyed it. Keep up the great work. And well, certainly one of the thrills of this program is the ability to be able to speak to athletes. And... well, it's been a thrill speaking to you today, so thank you.

16:29 Elise

Yeah. Thank you. Peter, it's been so nice to be invited.

16:32 Peter

Elise Rechichi OAM, Olympic gold medalist and... very much involved at the Paralympic level. Kind of, well, spearheading hitting in our un towards 2032 on the green and gold runway.

16:48 Patrick

My name is Patrick Jensen and I'm a two-time Winter Paralympian. You're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

17:01 Song

I've got some wild, wild life...

17:05 Peter

If you hadn't heard, there's an election happening. Let's find out what Kelly Schultz from Knowable Me is doing - and maybe wanting your support as well. Kelly, great to catch up. Thanks for your time.

17:15 Kelly

Thanks for having me. Peter.

17:16 Peter

Now, you're not running for Parliament, are you?

17:18 Kelly

Oh, no.

17:19 Peter

No, not this time.

17:20 Kelly

No.

17:20 Peter

Not this. No. You've got a really cool thing underway. Tell us about this. Obviously, it's very, very timely and really, really important. I mean, some of us are more passionate about this sort of thing than others, but this is really great.

17:33 Kelly

Yeah, well, it is pretty timely. Obviously, an election has been called and we're just going to run a national survey to understand how accessible voting really is for people with disabilities. It's not going to be about politics at all. It's just about whether the process works and what gets in the way.

17:48 Peter

One of the great things about this is not necessarily voting on the day that you're talking about, although that's part of it, but it is accessing information before it.

17:56 Kelly

That's right. I think there's so many things involved in making an informed decision - and I'm sure not sure about you, but I've never heard quite this much talk about disability as a political issue before. So it's incredibly important that everyone with a disability both has the opportunity to participate independently, but also has the opportunity to understand what everyone's thoughts are and what their policies are and what their positions are on this. And that sort of information can be really hard to come by in accessible formats, or just in a way that's understandable.

18:30 Peter

It's almost an oxymoron sometimes, something like that, isn't it? Information about disability that's not accessible or that is inaccessible.

18:38 Kelly

I know Vision Australia does a lot of work on this. Yeah. So absolutely acknowledge that Vision Australia has done a lot of work from advocating for accessible voting things, producing the materials in formats that people can actually use. And I just think our research is going to build on that foundation and add to the case for more progress. Obviously, we're not necessarily going to have an impact on this particular election. But while it's on people's minds and while they're looking at, you know, what they're going to do and how they're going to exercise their vote, I think it's a really great time to talk about it.

19:08 Peter

That's one thing I'm going to put to you, is the fact that this obviously probably won't make a lot of difference this time around, because it is kind of, if you like, a slow burn, but nevertheless, if you don't start something, it's never going to get to the point where you want it to finish.

19:20 Kelly

Exactly. It's probably not going to make a difference. But I think there's also something about raising awareness for... everybody who participates. How do we... get these stats out there, and what's happening for people to the general public so that they know what it's like? And it just adds weight white to that ongoing advocacy for better systems, because I'm sure every other state's going to be due for an election sometime in the not too distant future.

19:43 Peter

True, no, a great point. Well, we've got in... South Australia's got ours in the next 11 months as it is now. I think Victoria's next year as well. So that, as you say, is very, very timely. And I guess like the other thing that you do with Knowable Me is, like you put the information out there for organisations, governments, etc. to, if you like, peruse. So it's the sort of stuff that they've got access to information that they might not otherwise have.

20:07 Kelly

Yeah, that's one of the philosophies. So particularly when we do these research for ourselves. So this is one that we're funding for ourselves. This is a piece of research we're doing because we want to add to the annals of information. And so we'll share these results publicly with the community. It'll feed into the broader conversations and we'll even, you know, maybe get an audience with the Electoral Commission and have a bit of a crack with them, too.

20:28 Peter

Well, that is a great idea. And, of course, you know, I mean, because... I speak to them pretty much every election time. And they do say they want to hear what people think. So, you know, this is kind of putting them to the test. All right. So what are you looking for us to do? As... I was going to say, as plebs, as voters or maybe as voters in the future, because it's not just people that have voted, is it?

20:51 Kelly

No. It can be people who for this is their first time as well, because there's quite a few of those as well. Of course, we're looking for people with disability or access needs who plan to vote in this coming federal election. So in just a few weeks time, there's a survey, there's an open survey, or at Knowable Me, and then there's an opportunity to participate. Then once we've once we've gone through those in a $15 paid survey, which can either be [?] or online, we can do all different formats, whatever works for people.

21:23 Peter

Fantastic. And can you give us a bit of an idea of what... well, both the survey and then the phone survey, what that kind of involves or what that includes?

21:32 Kelly

Yeah. The initial survey is generally just some Yes/No questions. Do you intend to vote? Have you got any stories to tell us about things? How do you usually vote? So, you know, some people always want to post or vote. Some people will want to do it on the day and go for their democracy sausage - I'm quite a fan of a democracy sausage. So, people vote in different ways and have different views on it, but also how they get information. So how do you figure out who you're going to vote for? And those sorts of things and any experiences that you can talk to if you've had those experiences. 

And then the more detailed survey, the paid survey after that will be a little bit more in-depth about what you need and how you need it, and what your preferences are for getting information and using information and being communicated with about the things that are important to you.

22:17 Peter

It's a great thing you mentioned about getting information, because I must admit, I'm very limited as far as sort of interest or ability in the social media area. However, I do know that there's been such an emphasis that the political parties are putting a lot of... their energies into... social media, you know, the... TikTok, the YouTube... the podcasts, etc.. So I guess, you know, we've got a kind of take notice of that, if that's what they're doing, then there's a lot of people that have got that interest. But by the same token, if we... don't know about it, then we're not going to know, you know, what they're offering or what sort of things they're out there for us to consume.

22:54 Kelly

Absolutely. And I funnily enough, I only looked it up yesterday. You can... actually, publicly available, you can go and look at the advertising... reports on advertising on social media, particularly for Meta, which is Facebook and Instagram, and see who is spending the most money. And last week, in you know, real terms, the Australian Liberal Party spent the most on Meta for political ad, advertising. So yeah, you can actually see how much they're spending and what the ads are, and that they're approved. So there is actually a lot of reporting available to people on that.

23:27 Peter

Well, I guess if they're using it, then you've got to at least know about it. So to kind of know what sort of areas to be looking in and I guess also what sort of... information people are consuming from it. What about the kind of old fashioned way? You know, if you like websites and I mean, you know, obviously, the letterbox drops, I mean, that's probably not very accessible for some people, though. There's much more equipment now that you can kind of read your own mail independently.

23:52 Kelly

Yeah, there is. I remember there was a federal election. Well, I don't think it was the last one. It might have been the one before that... where I got 17 from the 17 bits of it.

24:01 Peter

Because they know who you are.

24:04 Kelly

Oh, crazy amounts of mail. And that person didn't win in the end, which is also amusing to me. But yes, there's got to be other, there's other ways. And I mean, for a lot of people, it's even just knowing who your local member is. Of course, obviously you're not voting for the Prime Minister unless you're in that seat. You're not voting for our prime minister or sometimes even cabinet ministers. So, you don't know necessarily who these people are in your local area and in your electorate and what they stand for. So even finding out that information can be a good place to start.

24:38 Peter

Yeah, that is such a great point, isn't it? Because invariably, say who you're voting for, Dutton or Albo? And of course it isn't that not not particularly in your own electorate. And of course, then there's the, I guess, the extra complexity, if you want to call it that, of the Senate and the system in the Upper House as well.

24:55 Kelly

Absolutely. And I've, I don't know if you've done this - I do it for fun, Peter - but you go out on Election Day and walk into a polling place and ask all of those people handing out how to vote cards if they have one in Braille.

25:06 Peter

I must do that. No, I've never done that. Well, the last few elections I've kind of used the telephone voting, although it must have been, I have gone...

25:15 Kelly

Go out and enjoy the day.

25:17 Peter

Well, no, well, I was going to say I have gone out just to kind of soak up the atmosphere - because there is something special about those sort of days. So I... might do that, and I might report back with the answer that I get.

25:29 Kelly

Oh, sausage as well. Right?

25:31 Peter

Yeah. Well, hopefully the answer is there. Broadcastable. Kelly, what about timeliness as far as your, sort of survey and you... call-out for people to... give you some information, guys? How's that take place?

25:44 Kelly

Oh, yeah. Get on to us as soon as you can. The initial survey is going to close on the 14th of April, so that we can at least get some stats out into the world before the election. And the the survey, the paid survey will close probably a week after that. But yeah, if you can get your initial initial votes in before that, that'd be great.

26:02 Peter

Yeah. So it's kind of a voting before we vote, isn't it?

26:04 Kelly

Yeah.

26:05 Peter

And in terms of... the accessibility of... the surveys, you talked about maybe doing a via phone - but if people do choose to do it online, you've checked it out. I know you have, Kelly, but I'm just asking, just asking for a friend - I'm asking for a friend - have you checked it out?

26:20 Kelly

He takes feedback on that, too, Peter. So...

26:22 Peter

Okay.

26:23 Kelly

Some situations where a couple of people have mentioned a couple of things to us... so, yeah, always taking feedback on that. So it's online at Knowable - and that's knowable, K N O W A B L E dot Me. You can also email us if you need some support, which is Research at Knowable dot Me - and you can ring one of the team as well and have a chat, which is 0435 185 577.

26:50 Peter

Terrific. Kelly. Obviously for those of us that are a little bit nerdish in this area, we're... looking forward to it and very appreciative of it. And like I always say at election time, you know, if you've got an accessible voting option, please think really hard about taking it up. Because if we don't do it, then the Electoral Commission will say, Oh look, yeah, these people aren't really interested - why should we bother, or why should we spend money on it? So yeah, my impassioned plea is that people take it up and also contact you to do your survey - because as you say, there is a little financial incentive, particularly for the... longer survey that goes on after the initial contact.

27:24 Kelly

Yeah it is. And I think this is a great opportunity. Like I said, the political landscape has never mentioned disability more than now that I've, that I've experienced. And we need to exercise those rights. So if you can use one of those systems do let's let's prove it. Let's vote with our feet and get out there and do it.

27:43 Peter

Terrific, Kelly. Great to catch up. I'd like to get back to you at the end of this and say, Hey, what sort of response do you get? And then perhaps, after the election, you know, what your sort of thoughts are in terms of where you go to with this kind of project as well.

27:54 Kelly

Yeah, that'd be great. I'd love to share this one back. I think it's a... really important issue.

27:58 Peter

Kerry Schultz - what... an Energiser bunny. Certainly as far as accessibility and access to information goes, one of the very best. Always great to have her on the program. We'll put those details up in our show notes as well.

28:12 Program ID

You're in elite company listening to Leisure Link here on Vision Radio Radio, VR radio, digital VR radio and through the TuneIn radio app.

28:25 Peter

Let's meet Max Taylor - a year 11 student at Redlands who's doing a rather interesting project. Max, great to meet you. Thank you for your time.

28:33 Max

Hi. Nice to meet you, Peter.

28:34 Peter

Tell us about this project. There's a number of kids in the class doing a project in this kind of... area.

28:40 Max

Yeah, well... obviously, I'm Max, I'm 16 years old, and I go to Redlands in year 11, and one of my passions is design and technology. And in my class for for Term 1, we've been sort of designed... tasks to create a project which designs and prototypes an ergonomic handle for a specific tool object to meet a user group - focusing on user comfort, functionality and of course, the aesthetics. And so as part of the project, we sort of had to create our own idea and develop a prototype and 3D model on it. And so a key part of my design was, I wanted to target the visually impaired community. So yeah, that's why I sort of reached out and got in touch with Vision Australia as well.

29:32 Peter

Why in particular that community, Max - for people who are blind or low vision, why that particular part of the community?

29:39 Max

So as soon as I was given this project's about... well, it must have been five weeks ago now, I knew immediately I wanted to focus on sort of developing a handle which would help people and make their lives easier. And so I remembered back to this time my Mum shared a story about one of her work friends whose brother in law lost his sight in his 20s. And now they're home. Daddy loves to cook for his family. And so it made me think about, what are the challenges that a blind or visually impaired person encounters when they're cooking? So I thought, what significant risks. And I came to the conclusion, it's like burning themselves, spilling the contents of the pan or even getting sick from undercooking their food.

30:23 Peter

I hadn't thought of that one.

30:26 Max

But I knew that I wanted to, like, reach out to this community and ask questions and get feedback and understand how I could help to meet their needs of a cooking pan.

30:36 Peter

So that's the... kind of... article or the item that you're working on, is a handle for a cooking pan.

30:42 Max

Yeah. That's it. So I wanted to, like, fill a gap in kitchen tools for visually impaired people. So, like, the average traditional cooking pan during my research doesn't provide the support and features... that a visually impaired person may need to cook independently and safely as my goal sort of make it so that they don't have to rely on others. And... visually impaired people can cook independently. So yeah. So I wanted to transform it into like a simple and safe practice instead of something with risk.

31:13 Peter

Now as you're speaking to us, obviously, which is great, but you've also reached out in other areas for people who are blind or low vision to give you feedback, and I believe you've had some pretty good responses.

31:23 Max

Yeah. So I have reached out to several organisations - obviously including Vision Australia. And one thing I've noticed is all the support that these organisations have given is invaluable. They've been super helpful and gone above and beyond, even to the point of giving me loads of feedback on my survey. So this put me in contact with visually impaired people, occupational therapists, and... you as well, Peter. And who have all provided me with valuable feedback to move forward and develop my handle. 

And so through my Microsoft form survey I was talking about earlier, I gathered multiple responses on cooking experiences, preferred materials, technology usage when cooking, the shape and ergonomic fit of the pan. And some are like those standout statistics included that 66% of these recipients felt somewhat comfortable when cooking independently, which obviously we want to improve to make it so that all respondents are comfortable and cooking. But I also received the statistic that 22% of respondents were somewhat uncomfortable, which is something which really needs to be taken action on, which is sort of like the whole point of my idea. 

One of the other sort of open-ended questions, which I provided in my survey, just to experiment and see sort of what changes would help to improve the cooking experience for a visually impaired person. And most of my responses came back with exactly what my research had found: that preventing heat from escaping outside the pan and causing harm to the individuals was by far the standout... response, like cooking close to hot surfaces and being able to prevent burns, which is... I think 90% of respondents said they'd experienced burns when cooking. So that was something I really knew. 

My design has to prevent, and sort of in terms of looks and the ability to prevent, like prevent heat as... sort of been looking at materials of silicon and wood, which received 38% each on the survey. And... for the shape, people said straight and moulded handles got 36% each. And for ergonomic fit, 46% of the preferred design was the curved sort of natural shape of the hand to fit the handle - which was also another really interesting thing I found. And overall, like as is... of course, I want to not just change the shape of the pan, but add technology which will help the community, to sort of locate and cook their food properly and find the temperature of the pan. 

So most people, with 44% of the responses, said they'd love to see an auditory sort of talking feature on the... pan, which I thought... is something I must integrate, because it's going to be perfect for helping to prevent that illness, those burns and pretty much take all of the boxes to prevent injury. And in that category, 24% said they would love to see a temperature sensor, which I thought is a great idea. And 14% would love a sensor which cues them to find their pan, which is also another great idea which... I want to touch on in my actual ... pan creation.

35:12 Peter

So what happens from here then, Max? Do you actually get to kind of do a finished product, or how does that all kind of play out?

35:19 Max

Well, yeah, so I'm currently focusing on 3D model of my pan. So integrating that material that shape that technology and sort of bringing it to life on a 3D scale. So obviously I've integrated that technology into the handle, adding an audible temperature sensor and a location prompt for the users. So those are the two pieces of technology which I've narrowed down on, which I think will tick all those boxes. 

And I've also, for the shape I've included a D-shape handle. So if you think, maybe like the vacuum cleaner handle which fits your hand perfectly... well, I've sort of integrated that onto a cooking pan handle, which hasn't really been seen before, but I thought this would provide one area for the visually impaired community to have to reach out to preventing, less like burns when reaching around for the handle.

36:16 Peter

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. And... Max, we're running out of time. But it's been fascinating. I will... put your details, contact details up on our show notes. If people want to get in touch with you, maybe for some... late mail, if you're happy to receive those. A little bit tongue in cheek - you're going to kind patent this idea, Max - based on the future, you'll be rich.

36:36 Max

Well, I think it's great, I'm still exploring options. You know, two years after, for...

36:44 Peter

For [?rushes] like that.

36:45 Max

You know, interested in studying engineering and commerce. But if I'm honest, I'd love to see value in my handle design, maybe bring it to life in the near future. I think it brings such a positive difference to the lives of blind and visually impaired people when they cook, and it really it'd be a dream come true if I could sort of bring this handle to life and sort of, if anyone listening is interested, I would love to share my designs and develop this into a future project.

37:12 Peter

Well, maybe an engineering company might want to take you on board and take up the idea, and that would be really cool as well. Max, congratulations on the initiative. I think it's fantastic that you've gone out of your way. And just quickly, I know some of your fellow students were doing kind of, well, shall we say, more mundane handles. You've chosen something right out of the box. So congratulations on that.

37:34 Max

Thank you. I appreciate it.

37:36 Peter

What a great idea. And it's so good to know that our future is in the hands of people like Max Taylor.

37:42 Max

Thank you.

37:43 Vision Australia ID

Keep in touch with Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide on 1197 AM.

38:03 Peter

Time to catch up with our favourite health... commentator, in fact, the most popular health commentator. In fact, here's proof. We've got a question from Julia who's asked us to ask David about CANdida or CanDIda. How do you say it? David, welcome. Good to catch up again.

38:18 David

Good morning. And and thank you, Julia, because it's that you've opened up a topic that I think I cut my teeth on, but I went into general practice. That whole concept of... Candida and yeast and so on was was so much the rage of... the 70s and 80s. And I had to learn pretty quick about what, what did and didn't work or what could or couldn't work and read like crazy to catch up with it. 

Because traditionally what happened was that somewhere in the middle to late 50s, people started getting a whole range of of funny symptoms - headaches and fatigue and migraines and depression and anxiety and skin disorders and bowel disturbances and immune system problems all over the place. And no one really worked it out, but there was a groundswell of people in the food area. I call them the Food Nazis, because they're always trying to kill off food and not eat food and not have to eat food and take pills instead. 

But their concept was that somehow or other, it was tied up with yeast and carbohydrates that the little little buggers in the bowel were... somehow or other reacted with those foods, created chemicals that were, if not destroying it, certainly creating devastation in our immune system and in our bowel and other parts of our bodies. And it was probably brought up to some sort of, at least an attempt at science, by a doctor called William Crooke, an American. 

Now, I got to tell you, if my if I were a doctor, Dr Crook - I'd be changing it pretty quick. Anyway, he wrote this. It was almost like the Bible - called Yeast, The Yeast Connection. And his idea and concept, which was taken up by probably at least half the world, was that there is something about the bacteria in the bowel, particularly a bug called Candida, which on the outside can cause a thrush in ladies' or in males' groins, or it can cause thrush in the mouth, but in the bowel itself, the Candida could grow and it would, it would grab anything that had carbohydrates in it or anything that had been made with yeast. 

Now people said, well, that might be good if you just take a teaspoonful of yeast, as some people used to do. But the other side of it, once it's cooked, all it's supposed to have gone. Well guess what? It doesn't really go. Bits and pieces of it get broken down, and it came slowly, out of this came the concept that Crook was probably right to a good extent, but the explanation was still missing...

Until people... decided to focus on the bacteria in the bowel, that there are trillions of bacteria and there are probably thousands of different varieties of bacteria in our bowel, and we do have what we now call the bowel brain, where what happens in the bowel and what happens with the bacteria and the chemistry that they create from the food that we eat, creates an environment that is us. And if that the stuff that's been created by these bacteria, because they're the wrong bacteria, then it creates funny chemicals that messes around like crazy. 

But again, that was not in the 70s. That was in the the 90s and 2000. So in in the 70s and 80s, it was about restricting or eliminating wherever you could, yeast and carbohydrate foods that quickly and easily turned into sugar, which were were the primary food, if you like, for these Candida bacteria or thrush bacteria. He didn't leave an awful lot to eat. So the people that were doing it because they needed it and did show improvements, it was still a pretty miserable existence - because there were so many things that had to be removed from their diet. 

And essentially what we ended up with is... the the world, and the treatment world, moved into two different camps. One camp said, Right, we've got to kill the beggars off these Candidas and we've got to use antibiotics. Except that killing off Candida doesn't use a, what you would call a proper antibiotic. It is only a very safe compound that was only usable for killing the thrush or Candida bacteria. The trouble is that you needed up to six a day for several years before you really got anywhere. 

So that was and this theme will come through today, this talk, because it's about the antibiotic that the medical model I guess we'll call it. You've got a condition. Here's a prescription, off you go. The other side was a food camp, which insisted that it had to be a very rigid nothing that a kind near any sort of of yeast product and anything that had a high sugar component, which we now call our high glycemic index rating for a particular food, as well as that, the food, the people would say, Right, well, if we are going to be killing off these bacteria, we've got to replace them with something. So they need Lactobacillus and several of the forms of Lactobacillus like Bifidus. 

So people started drinking yogurt, making that thing or licking it off an ice cream or taking it in some sort of pill. The problem being that... many times the stuff that was in the pills or similar didn't get past the stomach, and so it didn't get down into the bowel, which is where it needed to be. Then the scientists started to realise that it wasn't... just Candida that could be doing these sorts of things. There were things like Giardia and there was Sulfide, and later on Clostridium Difficile and Dientamoeba Fragilis and Inanna, and [?e-commerce], more and more and more. 

The discovery that certain people had a either had an excess of these particular bacteria that create their own sort of chaos inside the bowel, and that producing chemicals that were irritated in some way, shape or form to the bowel or to our immune system or our joints or our nervous system in some way, shape or form. So, bit by bit, the milieu changed - such that the diets started to be [?bats], a little bit more specific, but more... restricting carbohydrates as a base of it. 

This is where Pam and I came along, and we wrote our book about taming the dinosaur, June, about excessive Ragi - Ragi carbohydrates created all sorts of conditions that were very similar to Candida. At the same time, the medicos, me included, started discovering that there were a few other killable bugs that did make a difference. So there was Giardia, which was thought only to be just an occasional bowel inflammation, but that it could actually survive in the bowel and create the same thing. And we didn't really have a proper test or any test we had weren't necessarily 100% accurate. 

So I used to use the smelly test - so that if your if your bowels smelt like they did, shook or died up there, it was probably Giardia and there was a specific reasonable Metronidazole that you could use reasonably safe and take that in burst a couple of times a week and then on again off again. That worked quite well. But if the the bowel actions or the wind smelt like it was rotten eggs or sulfur in other words, it was a different treatment for that because that was to do with the bug called Southbridge. 

So in all of this, we got mixed up with food allergies and food intolerances, which made the whole thing even worse, because people were restricting themselves more and more and more to eating less and less and less and nutritionally that wasn't necessarily good and created its own problems of anger and frustration in particular, and then a sort of a hopelessness and uselessness that went with it, because you couldn't do anything. And if you did, you were you were punished in some way, shape or form by a bowel reaction or some other part of the body overreacting to something. 

Things were not looking real good - because these the scientists would get upset if people complained too much, and they would get upset if you didn't want to take their prescriptions and that you wanted to do a diet and segue... and that the foodies, who knows who were saying, Well, no, you're not allowed to take those nasty antibiotics and so on. That badge we hear is the the diet exclusion system that we think is so wonderful. 

Luckily, by the time we got into early 2000 onwards, the scientists, bit by bit, started realising that we needed a different approach. And essentially what they were looking for was some way of eliminating the bad bugs and replacing the good bugs without necessarily having to use antibiotics and without necessarily having to have an exclusion diet, for want of a better word. At that, there was a lovely guy called Jim Brodie, a Professor of Gastroenterology in Sydney who had been working with Peter Marshall. 

Now some people remember that name. He was the guy that discovered Helicobacter. Yeah. His stomach was the cause of the stomach ulcers. Well guess what? Brodie was his offsider and worked with him. Marshall got the Nobel Prize but Brody got... the flick - and disappeared back to Sydney, where he can continue to look at different bugs further down in the bowel, which is where we are coming to with these funny bugs like Clostridium Difficile and the Dientamoeba Fragilis and the Ominus. 

And he came up with... a number of other scientists around, or came up with the concept of what have we looked at this as being more of an immune system problem - and that what if we needed to do is just like someone who has a bone marrow transplant - was if we found some, some really good samples of poo from someone who was really healthy, and we've checked out that they've got no problems anywhere in their body, chemical or genetic or otherwise... if we started putting little bits of that into one of these sick people, I'm using the sick in its broader sense, sick people who were unwell because of a presumed bug. 

And lo and behold, it started... to work. And it's called poo transplant. Originally, Brodie and his mates would do a colonoscopy. They would grab a section or some samples of the of the bowel, some poo, in other words, and take it out and culture it with some good bugs and put it back in. And it was vaguely useful, but tedious and very, very expensive. Bit by bit by bit, they came to understand that using a healthy person's specimen of the fluids and solids from high up in the bowel could be taken, taken out and cultured, and that could be given to or transplanted in the person that had these... bacteria and other types of problems.

49:42 Peter

And I might hold you up there because we're out of time, but I think we can do a Part 2 on this, because there's even kind of more good news to come in this sort of business, isn't there?

49:52 David

Yeah, there is, there is.

49:53 Peter

Yeah. So if that's okay and Julia's okay with that - actually make sure Julia listens next month, doesn't it?

49:59 David

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. This is how your... radio ratings went up by one person. And maybe Julia's Mum will be listening as well.

50:07 Peter

Well that's right. Well we'll get... the whole family listening. David, great to catch up. That's an excellent explanation. And we look forward to Part 2 next month.

50:14 David

Okay. Bye, all. Thank you. Peter.

50:16 Peter

David Mitchell there, our health commentator. And if you'd like to... put David to work, get in touch and we'll put David to work just for you. 

Ah, there's probably always on time as far as putting the kettle on. Very reliable As indeed is our next guest, Linda Hellyer from Belinda, the Brew that is True - 97A Old Port Road at Queenstown. Linda, great to catch up. And of course, the winner of five Golden Leaf Awards - we shouldn't forget that.

50:59 Belinda

Yeah. Thank you.

51:00 Peter

Yeah, well, last time we talked about designs and some of the things that can be used to make tea, if you're going to kind of extend that with talk about things like Earl Grey and other things that can be kind of added or supplemented into... a tea.

51:16 Belinda

Yeah, that's exactly right. And we talked about... yeah, there's lots and lots of different ingredients that can be used in tea, but I thought today we could talk a little bit about how Earl Grey... is made, but also how you can use... different petals... from flowers in tea - they usually do feature in Earl Grey and in various versions of Earl Grey.

51:40 Peter

Alright. Well, maybe just quickly, because I think we have chatted about it in the past, but Earl Grey, I believe, Earl Grey might have actually been an English Prime Minister. So... rather esteemed... company as far as its name goes.

51:53 Belinda

Yeah. That's right.... there was a British prime minister named Charles Grey. And yeah, the origins of this particular quite popular tea can be traced back to him. I should say that Earl Grey is a style of tea that I find people either love or they hate it. It's very polarising. So, yes, it is a black tea, usually like a salon black tea, a lighter style of black tea that is... aromatised with bergamot oil. So bergamot is a citrus fruit... about the size of an orange. And it has like a beautiful kind of uplifting aroma that's slightly floral. It's grown in Italy. It has kind of a yellow and green rind. 

So this oil gives Earl Grey its signature kind of citrusy flavor and fragrance. And some people really love that in a tea. And some people do not love that in the tea. But yes, oils can be used to aromatise tea. And that is kind of the special thing about Earl Grey. So it's a black tea aromatised with bergamot oil. Having said that, there's not many tea companies out there or teas on the market today that use a true bergamot oil. Often it's like a chemically made flavour, bergamot flavouring. 

53:16 Peter

So it's really...

53:18 Belinda

A very good to look out for that. We are not into that. We don't use flavours here. But so you know, it is important, you can kind of taste the difference or like but... yeah, you're looking for a black tea with... a bergamot oil as opposed to a bergamot flavouring. Yes. I got off track...

53:37 Peter

That's right. I was going to say that. And we often say, you're not obviously not a health expert, but there's quite a few kind of... if I can say, claims or... bergamot has been associated with some, you know, beneficial health... sort of products, if you like, or health outcomes.

53:53 Belinda

Yeah. The ones that spring to mind. I have read about it sort of helping to aid in digestion, but often it's talked about in helping to lower cholesterol and to help fight against heart disease. So that's interesting. Plus, because you've got the black tea base, black tea has a lot of antioxidants and l-theanine, you know, that helps you kind of keep calm and focused sort of all at once. So, yeah, lots of great kind of health benefits associated with... Earl Grey tea. 

Another thing is the scent itself of the bergamot. It is quite... it's beautiful. It's very uplifting. So often bergamot oil... can be found in kind of essential oil blends and things that you put in... aromatherapy diffusers. And that is because it does tend to have kind of uplifting properties. And also, you know, to be quite kind of calming, you know.

54:54 Peter

The interesting point you make, because often you hear about... you know, some, you know, supplements or herbs, etcetera, that can kind of be calming, but also at the same time kind of focus the mind. You think it's almost... an oxymoron, but not the case.

55:08 Belinda

Not the case.

55:09 Peter

Yeah.

55:10 Belinda

Especially affeine in tea and the and the l-theanine. This is why Matcha powder is so popular... right now, Matcha powder has very high levels of l-theanine. And that is, this amazing has an amazing ability to kind of, you know, calm you, but also kind of sharpen and focus the mind at the at the same time. So this sustained kind of focus and calming going on at once, which is incredible, really.

55:41 Peter

From 5000 years ago, you told us about probably didn't quite know the benefits that he was discovering all that time ago. But without getting too much into the kind of technical details, how do they kind of put the bergamot flavor into the tea? Did you know much about that, or is that a bit sort of a bit hard to explain?

56:00 Belinda

Well, it's an oil... or a distillate... and it's usually sprayed onto the leaves actually. So it uses... like you need... special equipment with a really fine spray, and you literally spray that over the leaves, and then the leaf kind of needs to dry and absorb that oil. But yeah, if flavours are used, that's often sprayed - or there's little things called flavour rods that can be used, all sorts of kind of ways of flavouring. But yes, it's sprayed onto the leaves and... left to dry.

56:30 Peter

I guess over a matter of time. Yeah. Left for a matter of time to kind of... absorb it.

56:35 Belinda

Absolutely, lately. Absolutely. And...  just to get back, you mentioned the British Prime Minister, Charles Grey. So Earl Grey is kind of... like there's no real hard evidence about how this particular tea blend came about. But, you know, the big story is that it dates back to the 1800s and is named after this British Prime Minister. And legend has it that it was a Chinese tea master that gifted him this unique blend. 

But there's... a story that he... it was gifted to him as a token of gratitude because the tea masters... that they they say that Grey or one of his his men saved the tea master's son from drowning. Oh, yeah. So this is kind of the story, this popular legend that grey or one of his men saved the tea master son from drowning. And as a token of gratitude, he gifted this... special blend to him. So that is one... story. Say that it was added to balance the water at Earl Grey's estate. So, you know, there's a lot of legends, but yeah, that's kind of where it dates back to, the 1800s.

57:44 Peter

No, this is part of the rich history of... the sort of... well, it's not just the facts in a sense, but also the fables that go with stories like this.

57:52 Belinda

Yeah. Which is beautiful. I want delving into all of that and hearing all of these, you know, beautiful stories.

58:00 Peter

Could other things be kind of added to the Earl Grey tea too, apart from the bergamot?

58:04 Belinda

Yes, absolutely. And this is where we get things... you may have heard of things like Lady Grey or... yeah, there's lots of sort of different versions and spins that people then put on this tea - so you can add other kind of petals and, and peels into this blend to... make it your own. I guess usually like a little blue cornflower can be seen through an Earl Grey blend to give it a little bit of colour. Lady Grey is often... has some petals through, like a lavender... and also some peel from the bergamot fruit. So similar to an orange peel. Little dried pieces of peel can appear through some tea blenders use a touch of lavender. So this is really where, you know, people put their own creative spin on the Earl Grey kind of idea.

58:58 Peter

Equality was alive, it was alive and well with Lady Grey kind of balancing out the Earl Grey. Perhaps.

59:04 Belinda

Yes, perhaps.

59:07 Peter

Okay. Yeah, I've certainly heard of Lady Grey as well. Belinda, fascinating as always. Now, if people want to come and see you or find out a bit more about the great work that you do, and... we should say you've got an Earl Grey tea that... you make yourself, as you say - with the real bergamot, so no problems there. You're very ethical, as far as your tea preparations go. How can we find you?

59:27 Belinda

So you can find us at at our tea studio 97A Old Port Road in Queenstown, or online at Brewed by Belinda dot com - or over the phone, 0419 839 702.

59:44 Peter

Alright people - also catch you on Instagram as well, I'm pretty sure.

59:47 Belinda

Absolutely, I'm on there.

59:48 Peter

Oh all right - well not all the time, because sometimes you speak to us - so you might, we must be very important if you speak to us because - tear you away from Instagram. That's... a big commitment.

59:59 Belinda

Yes. You know, I love, I love our chat.

1:00:01 Peter

All right. We love you too, Belinda. We'll catch up again next month.

1:00:05 Belinda

Sounds wonderful. Thank you.

1:00:06 Peter

Belinda Hellyer there, from Brewed by Belinda. All the details about Belinda and the chat today on our show notes.

1:00:16 Program ID

On the Vision Australia Network through your favourite podcast service, on 1197 AM in Adelaide, you're listening to Leisure Link.

1:00:27 Peter

For some interesting and perhaps concerning research coming out of Medibank, let's chat a bit about it with their Chief Medical Officer, Dr Andrew Wilson. Andrew, if I might call you that, thank you for your time.

1:00:37 Andrew

Pleasure. Thank you for having me.

1:00:39 Peter

Yeah, this is quite concerning, is it not, that people are feeling a bit of a burden to talk about their mental health issues?

1:00:45 Andrew

Yes, it certainly is, Peter. It is concerning. We know that the Australia's mental health system is under pressure, and that more than 1 in 3 Australians are saying that their mental health is below average. But this additional research we've done with News Limited shows that more than half of Australians, 51%, in fact, have wanted to talk about their mental health but didn't. And it's mainly due to the fear of burdening others. And it's young Australians that struggle the most. 62% of 18 to 30 year olds find it hard to talk to their parents about their mental health. So it is really concerning.

1:01:20 Peter

I was going to ask you about that, particularly the the younger aspect, because I kind of think that maybe people... of a younger age are... I don't know, coming up a bit more comfortable talking about this sort of thing.

1:01:31 Andrew

Yeah. Look, I think that's right. That is the sort of impression we have. Yet, research doesn't really support that. And I think this whole concept of being a burden is a really important issue, I think. I think, you know, we know that 1 in 3 parents from this research, 1 in 3 parents have never discussed their own mental health with their children. So I think there's a... lack of role modelling there as well in families. So I think, you know, the parents with children and young people really need to look at how they're approaching their own mental health in the family.

1:02:03 Peter

Setting maybe a kind of a better example, if I can put it that way. Mm. So what do we... kind of do about this then? I mean you've done this research - it's a little bit concerning as we've talked on, or maybe more than a little bit concerning.... what can be done from here?

1:02:17 Andrew

Well I think it's really the first thing is awareness of this as... a problem. And then I think it's really encouraging in families for parents and their, the young people in the household to actually start that conversation. And I think there's some basic things that to do that we can some tools we can have to help that. I mean, the first important thing is to create a safe and supportive environment. It's not about judging. It's being calm, listening. Notice any changes and use I statement. 

So for example, to say something like... I've noticed that you don't seem yourself lately. What's going on? Those sort of questions are the way to start those conversations. So we'd, I'd really encourage parents and... young people to actually start those conversations, because it will actually lead to some good outcomes.

1:03:06 Peter

What about friends - particularly, you know, the younger age group, friends of a similar age to to the people we're talking about?

1:03:12 Andrew

Yeah, friends can certainly be... friendship groups can certainly be helpful. We do know, of course, that, you know, in some situations, particularly with social media for young people, that that can be a negative, but certainly friends. And the other important environment for young people is school. So teachers, school counsellors, there are resources available through schools that young people and their parents can access if there's concerns around mental health.

1:03:41 Peter

You've read my mind, Andrew - I was going to ask you, of course, the double-edged sword question, if you like, regarding social media. I mean, it can be very helpful in some ways in terms of perhaps accessing information, but it's also got a downside as well as when you sort of be aware of...

1:03:54 Andrew

Definitely. I mean, social media and digital technology broadly has brought... there's been a lot of rapid change. It produces a lot of pressure. And I think that's combined with probably some degradation in the other social support structures in our community over the last ten-twenty years where support was available. So social media, you're right, it's a two-edged sword. And that's... what's led to the 36 month initiative that's been embraced by government to actually stop access to certain types of social media platforms for young people in that critical 13 to 16 year old age group.

1:04:33 Peter

And a newsflash - bipartisan support. So that's kind of, that means it must be the right thing to do.

1:04:39 Andrew

Well, it's good to see mental health really needs a bipartisan approach. We need more innovation. We need more resources. We need an uplift in our mental health system to really improve the mental health of all Australians.

1:04:51 Peter

And he made a really interesting point there regarding social media and the way it's kind of taken over in the last 10 to 20 years. I guess 30 years ago we'd... have to kind of talk to people about it if we wanted a kind of an outlet. Now we can go to social media for good or evil.

1:05:06 Andrew

I think that's right. And obviously there's there's tremendous benefits from social media and digital technology. But I think there has certainly been... there's a negative to it. And we are seeing that with young people. And that's led to the, as I said, to the 36 month initiative. I think also the loss of other structures, you know... social supports, community groups, churches, much less participation there. And those those structures did provide a sort of support network for... young people in the past. And I don't think we've really had a replacement to that emerge.

1:05:42 Peter

Earlier in the interview, you talked about perhaps a lack of services in this area. Again, I guess it's easy to sort of say, Well, the government should do something about it, but that's more services being available or more resources in that area being available, more human resources, if I can put it that way.

1:05:58 Andrew

Yeah. Look, certainly, one of the big issues actually is also access and knowing where to go. I mean, there are resources that are available. For example, there's Headspace for young people. There's beyondblue that can provide resources. There are resources out there that also can be accessed through, you know, your GP, but people really don't know where to turn for mental health. When we've got a physical health problem, we kind of know what to do and we know what the treatment looks like. In mental health, that's not the case. 

So it's important to we do need more resources. We know that waiting lists are blowing out, that wait times in emergency departments are blowing out and so on. But we also need better ways of accessing the right care at the right time so people can get when they need help, they can get it in a timely fashion and it's the right help for them.

1:06:48 Peter

More long term, Andrew, is it the sort of profession that people are keen to get into, like in five, eight, ten years time when people coming, quote unquote, through the system, we're going to have more people working in that area. Do you think that's an attractive area for people to find as a career path?

1:07:03 Andrew

Well, I think it is. I'm obviously I'm slightly biased because I'm a psychiatrist, so I've kind of made that decision earlier in my life, but it's very rewarding. But we do have, broadly speaking, a workforce problem in healthcare in particularly in mental health. I mean, there's probably half the number of psychiatrists that we need at the moment for the demand. So we need to look at promoting work in mental health as a rewarding career. And people like working in team environments. So we need to create in primary care and in community settings, ready access to team based care, which is great for for our community. And it's also great for the workforce. It's more rewarding and therefore people will stay in the system and so on. So there isn't an easy fix to that, Peter. But I think... we do need to focus on workforce as a way of helping solve our mental health crisis.

1:07:55 Peter

Well, thank you for what you're doing. If people do want to find out more, is there a place they can go to kind of get a bit more information or, you know, maybe, I guess, to kind of, I guess, you know, talking to your parents or parents, talking to your children, talking to people about it as a good starting point?

1:08:09 Andrew

Yeah. Look, I think that's that's a good starting point. I think, though, as with most things, I think a good place to go if you... do feel you're struggling or you need help or someone close to you is doing that, is your GP - the GP, and you know the GP will know the resources in the local area. But for young people, again, I think the school is a good place to go. Teachers, school counsellors and so on. They do have resources there. There's Headspace for young people, which is readily available. And then of course there's Lifeline in a crisis situation. And beyondblue does have very good access to information around what resources might be available for your specific problem.

1:08:48 Peter

It's of course, lifeline number is 13 11 14 ... 1, 3, double 1, 1 4. And it's been a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you so, so much. I know we've only scratched the surface, but thanks for bringing it to our attention.

1:08:59 Andrew

It's a pleasure. Thank you.

1:09:00 Peter

That's Dr Andrew Wilson there, the Chief Medical Officer from Medibank.

1:09:06 Gemma

Hi. I'm Gemma Finlayson, a silver medallist in boccia in the Paris Paralympic Games. And you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

1:09:17 Peter

Well, some really good news for parents and more particularly for babies regarding... a screening test that now might be able to pick up some very important conditions. Let's chat about it with... Monica Ferry. Monica, lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

1:09:30 Monica

Thanks, Peter. It's lovely to be here.

1:09:32 Peter

Now, this is pretty exciting news. It's pretty good news. And I guess, in a sense, preventative news.

1:09:36 Monica

Yes. Newborn screening is a really successful program already, but... it's extra great when we can add a new condition that we have... a treatment for and...  something that we can do about.

1:09:51 Peter

And one of the great things about doing this program, Monica, is I'm always learning new things. And I must admit, this condition that is now being able to screen for I've not heard of it.

1:10:00 Monica

So Sickle Cell... has obviously been around for many, many, many, many years. And as Australia has become more multicultural, we have found more cases, but we also have a better opportunity to diagnose Sickle Cell along with... other conditions as well. So our ability to actually determine that somebody has Sickle Cell Disease has improved. And so of course, we are finding more people actually with Sickle Cell and getting a much greater understanding of its spread across our population base.

1:10:43 Peter

We'll come to that condition in a moment. But with the screening, so what does that mean that are at birth? Is it conducted and part of this sort of a general kind of overview, if you like? Is the Sickle Cell condition...?

1:10:56 Monica

So Australia has had a newborn screening program for more than 50 years now. And... it's a highly successful program in that it has a very high rate of parents opting in to have their babies screened at birth. So it happens about 48 hours after a baby is born, and lots of parents would remember it as the heel prick test.

1:11:24 Peter

Mm.

1:11:25 Monica

So... that we've been doing that, as I said, for many, many, many years and we've been doing that for very carefully chosen conditions that we know have treatments available and pathways that we can actually do something about. And finding those conditions early makes a huge difference to... the trajectory and the life that somebody who gets that diagnosis... has available to them.

1:12:01 Peter

So what would have happened in the past if the child hadn't been screened? What sort of age would it potentially be picked up at?

1:12:08 Monica

Well, with Sickle Cell and... many other conditions, usually...  I'll stick to Sickle Cell... and Sickle Cell, usually we... there would be some kind of an event that would... be incredibly painful. It would... be something that a child would find themselves having to be in hospital. So a... major kind of trauma that would then provide the health system with access to... the child to say, actually, there's something going on here that we need to get to the bottom of and find out about. The beauty of newborn screening is that no child should ever have to find themselves in that position, because we will know from the screening that they have Sickle Cell.

1:13:01 Peter

Well, just to clarify... so the screening would have to be kind of given the okay, it's opted into rather than sort of just mandatory...?

1:13:11 Monica

It is opted into. So... all parents are given... a choice around newborn screening. So parents will be asked when they're new parents, when they're in the hospital with their new baby, will be asked if if they consent to having their baby newborn screened. And it's hugely important that our parents do that because and most of them do, by far the majority of parents do that in Australia. And it's hugely important because the conditions that they're screening for are the ones where there is real advantage to having an early diagnosis, and then that provides the gateway to therapies, to treatment, to to intervention, to lifestyle choices, to nutritional choices and other things that make a real difference.

1:14:06 Peter

So I guess, as the old saying goes, to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

1:14:10 Monica

Yeah, well, you can't do anything unless you know - so knowledge is power.

1:14:15 Peter

Yeah, sure... how accurate is this test, particularly for Sickle Cell?

1:14:20 Monica

Well, all tests generally are, they would be done as a screening test and then parents would be contacted contacted to say, Your child shows that they have an increased chance of... having Sickle Cell. So that would, that is as close to a diagnosis without doing this specific test. So you would get an indication from the newborn screening. The parents would then come back... or even have... a test done at home to determine that the baby has Sickle Cell.

1:14:54 Peter

Babies can be so delicate. Yeah. You kind of, you know, don't want anything to kind of go wrong. But at the same time, you know, you kind of want to limit the amount of... sort of tests they have in terms of heel pricks, etc.. Is it one test that covers all these things, just just at the one time?

1:15:09 Monica

The heel prick test... and the blood taken from the heel, from the heel prick test, is used to determine whether the child has the haemoglobin count, which... suggests Sickle Cell. So there would be another test after that. Okay, that's not my... I should say, though, that's not my area of expertise. I'm not a... health professional.

1:15:32 Peter

But it can be done within that 48 hours, or after 48 hours. So you're getting a pretty good guide on what's going on.

1:15:39 Monica

The heel prick test is... that's sort of the optimal time, about 48 hours after birth when the baby systems are kicking in. Yeah, it's the optimal time.

1:15:50 Peter

How come does this happen now? Has the test just been made available? I guess the accuracy of the test is now available. Why now?

1:15:57 Monica

I think with Sickle Cell... so there are more than 7000 rare conditions. So, and we... test for currently on our... as part of our newborn screening, we test for... around 40. So... there's obviously a big gap there - and so what... so conditions have to... they have to fall into a set of criteria to then be added to our newborn screening panel. We clearly do not test, and we cannot test either at the moment, although science is moving forward quickly, every one of those conditions. 

But for the ones that we can test for, we have a criteria that says, Let's test for the ones that we can actually do something about. So let's test for the ones where there is a therapy available there. There is a change that can happen that that will make a difference to the way this person's life works out. And those criteria are evaluated for each condition that is under consideration. And we have a... there is a panel of experts from a range of... scientific backgrounds... and so on, health economists that make a decision to say, This is a test which will provide both really important information to families ... that they can take action around, really important information to health professionals that they can take action around. 

And it's important at a population level, because we know that we have Sickle Cell within our population and we have treatments. So we really want to be able to match the person with... the ability to have the treatment. The only way to do that in a timely way is... to do that shortly after birth with the screening.

1:18:06 Peter

That's quite extraordinary, isn't it, that... you know, fairly small drop of blood can kind of be used for 40 different conditions? I mean, the kind of mind boggles is to, you know, how sort of the... micro-ness, if there's such a word, of the test can...  have that sort of accuracy?

1:18:23 Monica

I think the advances that have happened in... genomics and... in being able to... look at DNA and... what's happening in DNA, what's happening in... blood is, yeah, totally mind-blowing... and we're still early on the path.

1:18:45 Peter

Yeah. I think you're right there. There's probably so much more to come. What about in terms of people finding out more information? I guess the sort of information would be... going on where they're going through... you know, prenatal classes, etc..

1:18:56 Monica

Yeah. So information before anybody has a newborn screening test. So new parents before they're new parents, there would be in those classes, a discussion about the heel prick test, what it means, what conditions it tests for, that there is... a physical material that's available and can be given to parents as well, about, These are the... conditions. And so parents feel that, or should feel that, they can make an informed choice about whether they choose to have the newborn screening or not. 

And as I said earlier, it's such an important choice to make - because then they're equipped to best take care of their baby. If there is something that needs to be... treated or... needs to be monitored over the child's growth.

1:19:54 Peter

Is there a website that you can point us to that people can maybe get some more information if they maybe think about being a parent one day, or their grandparents and hearing this and think, Oh yeah, I wonder if...?

1:20:05 Monica

The... Australian Government Department of Health and Aged Care has information about what the newborn screening program looks like, what the conditions are currently on our newborn screening panels. But there are also, if you looked at, if there were individual conditions that existed in in a person's family, for example, they could be looked at. And if the condition was Googled in in Australia, there are support groups for many, many conditions.

And there is a support group in Sickle Cell as well that can provide specific information about Sickle Cell itself, can connect people with parents of kids with Sickle Cell or people, adults with who have Sickle Cell so people can get a feel for what does that life actually look like over the life course. So there are some different ways to get different kinds of information.

1:21:09 Peter

I guess we'll get some of that information together and put up with our show notes. Monica, absolutely fascinating. Thanks so much for spending some time with us.

1:21:16 Monica

Oh, you are so welcome - and great to meet you, Peter.

1:21:19 Peter

Okay, that's Monica Ferrie. Wow. That is really, really interesting. And that's new, so pretty much hot off the press. So we'll put details up with our show notes just in case you want to find out more.

If you missed The [?boat report] on Wednesday night, we told you the very sad news of the passing of Peter Hetherington. Peter Hetherington OAM - he's done some great work in the area of blindness and low vision and disability and advocacy in general. So will pay tribute to Peter on Wednesday night on Focal Point. 

Also talk about sad news, also very sad to hear the passing of Paul Munn, the [?Lorne] specialist. Paul actually was the first sponsor of this program back in the very, very early days. Paul stumbled on the show, got in contact with us and said, I reckon you should interview me. We interviewed him the next week. He signed up as a three year sponsor. So to anyone that knew Paul, man, such a vibrant, exuberant, enthusiastic character. A great promoter of post-polio and the conditions that people had. So rest in peace, both Paul Munn and Peter Hetherington. 

Now, a couple of quotes before we go. Here's one that... Henry has sent through. Henry says, The definition of a good deal is when both parties leave the table unhappy. Okay, so I'll take your word for that, Henry. And one from Moraca who sends one through Paris, goes on at a ride in Disneyland, which goes something like... Hold on tight and away we go. The louder you scream, the faster we go. So thanks to Moraca for sending that through. Very, very passionate about tourism. 

Some birthdays before we go. Gordon Allan won bronze in the cycling event at the Paralympic Games in Paris. Happy birthday to you. Gordon and his family having a birthday. Very talented artist who has performed at the fringe over a number of years. Talked about her health battles as well. Very openly so. Andy, a very happy birthday to you. And in late breaking news, we didn't know this at the time, but David Mitchell having a birthday later on this week. So a very big happy birthday to David Mitchell. What a wonderful contributor to this program David has been for many years. May you long endure David. 

That's it for the program. Sam Rickard, thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. Now, Vicki Cousins is here with Australian Geographic. And Vicki reminding me that don't forget to put your clocks back one hour before you go to bed tonight. One extra hour of sleep - you little beauty! Vicky coming up with Australian Geographic. So, in the meantime, reminding you that Leisure Link is available on your favourite podcast platform. Be kind to yourselves, be thoughtful and look out for others. All being well, let's link back at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network. This is Leisure Link.