Great heights, great feats, great advances, great culture and great dogs

00:16 Peter

It's just gone 5:00 and we channel a bit of Alice Cooper, and I Want to Be Elected. Well, thank you for selecting to listen to Leisure Link here on Vision Australia Radio 1197 AM Adelaide, online at VA radio, radio digital in Adelaide and Darwin, also through the Reading Radio Network, our friends listening through 103.9 Hope FM Esperance in Western Australia... also our tremendous supporters at Disability Media Australia - find out more about them, Powerd Media. Peter Greco saying wonderful to be here. Thank you for giving us some time to listen to us. This program coming to you from Kaurna Land. 

Coming to you very shortly... we'll speak to Job Van Bunge, who was the coach of the Australian men's deaf team - they're just back from playing cricket in India. How did we go? David Brown will join us - a big event for guide dogs SA, and David graduated with his dog, Grant... we'll find out about that. Also catch up with Sarah McMahon, who did a Climb for a Cause, climbing Mount Kosciuszko for rare cancers. Sarah will share her story with us. Allison Davies from Allison Davies [dot com dot A U]  will say what happens to us when we're at a concert. We'll also hear from Mark Diplock from Salute for Service, providing wonderful support for our veterans - we'll chat to Mark. 

We'll have yoga from Reeva Brice... Adjunct Professor Denise Wood will join us for the latest news in the area of accessibility and technology... and Jill Bartlett from Therry will join us - Mum's Gift, that's their next production, your personal invitation is coming to you via the radio - not too far away. 

Australian Deaf Cricketers have just returned from a tour of England. Let's catch up with our coach Job Van Bunge. Thanks so much for speaking to us and welcome home.

02:16 Job

Thank you. Yes. Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks, Peter. 

Peter

How was it? 

Job

Amazing. Every time you get to play cricket in the subcontinent, especially India, this time is amazing. And we certainly took the opportunity to play some really good cricket and take it all in.

02:34 Peter

Now, Australia's been pretty strong in cricket for quite some time. What about as far as India go in the area of deaf cricket?

02:40 Job

India has definitely got the majority of the deaf players in the world by sheer population. So there's all of that... that we don't have yet in Australia. India is really strong, India is strong in all departments. So it was a super big challenge for us to go and play India in India. But we definitely rose to the challenge at times.

03:02 Peter

Yes, I know in blind cricket that there's a huge pool of players to choose from, so it figures that it would be the same in deaf cricket. What about in terms of the kind of cultural experience? What was that like?

03:13 Job

It was, in one word, it was amazing, Peter. It's the whole culture around cricket, around hospitality has been fantastic. We were treated to a very kind and welcoming atmosphere. I think Australia sits pretty high up there in the Indian cricket circle, so there was a lot of respect shown - everybody was friendly. Obviously it was a big challenge for a lot of our players travelling overseas for the first time and... not being able to have their regular... chicken pie for dinner. So food... was fantastic, if you're open to it. 

So it had some extra challenges around the team's performance that, that we had to keep count with. But... with all that, the boys were amazing. They adapted really well. They showed a lot of resilience and really took in the Indian... culture and spirit while we played over there.

04:07 Peter

We speak about things like this quite frequently on the program, as you can appreciate, Job - and I guess that's obvious. It's great to be able to represent your country, but then to be able to experience another culture... it's part of the the rich tapestry of of playing a sport, isn't it?

04:20 Job

It's... fantastic. And it's... so enriching. And I'm sure the players, as you do, you get caught up in results. And... we played some really good cricket, but we also played some really bad cricket. But in the end, if they will look back at this tour in about ten or fifteen years' time, I hope that they can reflect on that. It's been a fantastic experience that they've witnessed India, they've experienced India and all it has to offer. So... yeah, from that perspective, it's been... an enrichment for all of us.

04:50 Peter

What about in terms of the competition that was played? Was it mainly T20s, or what sort of format?

04:55 Job

So the first part, we played with South Africa and India, a T20 series. We've all played each other twice before a final, and we've beaten and lost to South Africa a little bit over the years or over the years, so we're a little bit more equal to them. India was definitely the big target for us. The first game, we really had to find our feet and we kind of got smashed, but we backed it up or the boys backed it up with a win against South Africa, and an amazing win against India, which was the first one in 20 years.

05:27 Peter

Okay.

05:28 Job

Another win, another win against South Africa the next day. And that was in the final against India, which unfortunately we couldn't keep up our high level of cricket. But yeah. India...  got us there, and that was the first bit. And South Africa went home. And then we played a three match ODI series against India. And that's... really where India showed their true strength. And we improved every game. And the last game we probably had some opportunities to... get the cookies, but we couldn't... maintain our level. So yeah, India got that three-zero over us.

06:04 Peter

Well I guess if we beat them once, I guess it shows that we can beat them.

06:07 Job

Exactly, right. And that's exactly one of the messages we've had for the players, is that you've done it once - you're much closer than what you think you are. And I think that definitely showed in that last game where where there was a real feeling that we can... get these guys. So for the future and for the future Champions Trophies and World Championships, that's something that... will take... a long, of course.

06:30 Peter

We know through... other cricket and other interviews, that the NCIC is a big event that's held every year in Australia. Now, I guess that's where you kind of choose your... pool of players from... as far as the Australian team go.

06:43 Job

Correct. And there is not a great group of of eligible players for this program... as I alluded to earlier. But the NCIC that's been going on for the last few seasons is definitely the biggest opportunity for us to see all the players in action. We try to follow them in their state competitions, and we're building a system where we have a bit more contact with them throughout the year. We obviously know where they all play and so we keep... tabs on that. But yeah, the NCIC is most definitely the biggest opportunity to see all the players in one go in a week, where they all play T20 against each other.

07:19 Peter

Yeah. Well, we were put on to you by Jess O'Reilly from Cricket Australia. So it sounds like you're kind of that, under that umbrella, like say, blind cricket and cricket for athletes who have the intellectual disability. So you're all sort of coming under the the bigger picture of Cricket Australia - would that be fair to say?

07:34 Job

Absolutely, yes. Yeah. We wear the same outfits with the same gear. We've got similar support. Not sure if you followed any of the social media, but the Cricket Australia socials were full of our tours as well. So we're very grateful that that there's such an inclusive environment at Cricket Australia to to support this program and to give it the attention it gets and needs to grow in the future.

07:56 S1

Yeah, but is it fair for me to ask you, who played well for Australia? Do you want to single some players out, or is that a bit unfair?

08:03 S2

No no no no no, that's not... unfair at all. I think the good thing about this team is that we've had a lot of contributors who played a role in certain games. We've had Tom Robertson from... regional Victoria, who was the player of the series at the end of the tournament - he bowled extremely well. We didn't expect the wickets to be... pace bowler friendly, but... he's one of our pace bowlers and he took a lot of wickets, made it pretty tough for the batter. So he was one that stood out. We had young Nick Mahoney from the Gold Coast. I think he scored a match-winning innings in one of the games. And then he's a big hitter and bowls a heavy ball as well... Nick Button from Chinchilla in Queensland, he was also... very productive with the bat. 

So we've actually had a few players that that contributed really well. Lewis Beard from New South Wales got his first 50 for Australia in a really crucial time. So wickets were taken and runs were made. And then the good thing is that we kind of spread it out, and that's kind of the strength of our team at the moment.

09:11 Peter

What about next year? What happens now as far as... well, both the Australian team goes and I guess the players that have represented Australia I guess? Well of course we're coming into the winter in Australia now aren't we.

09:22 Job

Yes, correct. So this program is consistent at the moment of of an annual annual event, whether it's a World Cup or a bilateral series, as well as the NCIC, I guess, and a training camp. So we don't get to spend a lot of time with the players. But we're really in the process of building something where we have a bit more contact with the players, and we're asking the players to to keep up their fitness and to keep bowling a few balls over winter and to keep hitting balls.

Because as they can see and as they've experienced, we're not that far off from the better countries and with a bit more skill in our game going forward, I think we can, yeah, we can.... rise up to where deaf cricket was a while ago. So we're well on our way and... all the players will go back to their own states and... do what they do. And yeah, we'll hope to... keep in touch with them and then keep progressing their skill work.

10:18 Peter

It sounds like cricket is in very good hands, with a coach like you at the helm.

10:22 Job

I appreciate that, I appreciate that - thank you.

10:24 Peter

Well, I've got a bit of passion and... certainly vested invested in the, in the game, which is tremendous. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you for speaking to us. First a win over India for quite some time and also... beating South Africa which is always good news to... talk about wins, but also about the cultural experience. I look forward to speaking to you again in the future and following... the progress of our Deaf... Australian Cricket team.

10:48 Job

Likewise. And thank you for the opportunity, Peter.

10:50 Peter

That's great. That's Job Van Bunge, a coach of the Australian Deaf team just back from maturing India. Sounds like it's pretty successful - and well done to all those involved. And I'm sure we'll talk more in the future. 

Well the big adventure in the week called by Guide Dogs SA-NT there was David Brown. David, great to meet you. Thanks for your time.

11:15 David

You're welcome, Pete.

11:15 Peter

How'd the event go? Of course, a few dogs graduated... a few were retired. A lot were kind of recognised.

11:22 David

Yeah, it was quite a number. I think there was about ten on the retirement list from memory. Five graduations and... a few puppies and things involved as well. It's quite a nice evening, actually.

11:33 Peter

And I know there's an Ambassador Dog, also a name, which is pretty cool.

11:37 David

Yeah, it was an Ambassador Dog and a Facility Dog there. Yeah. As always, we had those big guide dog events. They always had... dogs there to help people understand a little bit more about what's involved.

11:47 Peter

So tell us a bit about your story. You're on your second guide dog now.

11:51 David

I am, yeah. I... retired my... previous guard dog, Corey. I got him in 2016, start of 2017, and I had him for... working with me for eight years or thereabouts. And he retired in August last year, and I got grabbed by a new guide dog in late July last year and trained with him whilst I kept Corey operational. And then once graduated with me, Corey was, you know, retired. And then last night was the official graduation and retirement.

12:22 Peter

What was that like? Kind of... pardon the expression a bit... juggling two dogs at the one time.

12:27 David

Oh, look, I've got three dogs in my house. We have a pet Labradoodle. And... yeah. Look, the dogs are easy - it's looking after them - there's a bit of emotion, and a bit of, I suppose, a bit of sadness when you retire a guide dog and then move on to a new one. And that's... an interesting time because I think you can to... I use the word anthropomorphises the... feelings of the dogs. You know, my, when... my dog Corey retired and I get out with my, with the harness and ready for Grant to go off to do something for the day... and Corey jogs up and ready to go, Dad! No, mate, not today. You know, it's a bit sad, actually. 

I talked about that a little bit last night, and I think I might have jerked a few tears out of people because it actually, it's funny when I reflect on it, it does create a bit of emotion, and it's something that I think it's bittersweet because you appreciate the dog that you've had for a long time, but you know that it's time for them to retire and you know that, you know, to keep them going is particularly good for them. So, but then you could be feeling it... I'm literally letting them down because they're not doing what they always want to do. 

But as I reflected on last night, I said, look, you know, really, you give them something to eat and a and a treat for doing the right thing and staying at home. And you still do lots of things with them as pets. Anyway, we kept Corey as a pet, so it's fine. But you know, it's just that time when you, it's difficult and it's hard to describe, but it's a little bit of a... lost feeling, I suppose, when they go through that process description.

14:06 Peter

Because if you're working with a guide dog one day, then sort of shortly after you take up with the new one, like in terms of... their experiences and your relationship with them, how does that kind of go?

14:17 David

You know, at one point there I was, training with... Grant was a brand new guide dog. So he'd been trained, but he hadn't graduated, so he hadn't worked with me for long enough for us to be an operating team. So we both had to go through the motions and all the training and make sure that we're working well together. So it's all of that. So you're bonding with the new dog, and then at the same time, if I had things to do then I, you know, that weren't training... related. I couldn't take the non-graduated dog if you like, so the new dog, out to work with me, if I had to go to the shops or whatever. 

So Eric and Corey might, you know, the retiring guy dog and I work the M5 operating with two dogs. It's not that much different. Well, it wasn't in my experience. And... I'm very, very lucky. Corey was an excellent dog, and Grant is also an excellent dog. So the different one walked a little bit faster than the others, a little bit more the younger guys a little bit more feisty. And Corey's very stoic and very, you know, measured in his approach to everything. Grant's a little bit more, you know, you can imagine he's like a teenager and Corey's a, you know, a retiring old chef. So there's that difference between them. But they still obey the same commands. They still know what to do. 

You just have to be mindful that, you know, they're different animals and they had different personalities. You know, I suppose I didn't really find it that difficult, but it was... yeah, there was some differences there. So, yeah, particularly in the speed of operation, I think the thing that I'd say was probably... the main thing that I dealt with.

15:51 Peter

Yeah, they're going to be a little bit presumptuous and guess, but I'm thinking that Guide Dogs is saying and he probably thought that you were capable enough to be able to manage that, if I can put it that way.

16:00 David

Yeah. And look, I returned to Adelaide after 20 years away. I moved near Canberra... for 20 odd years, and, um, I had I got Corey when I was over there from Guide Dogs New South Wales, when I came back to Adelaide, cut a long story short, I came back with a dog that was nearly ready to retire. So what I did, I contacted Guide Dogs here and said, Look Transitioning my dog over from New South Wales, can you come and help me with some orientation? You know, as they do. And they were terrific with that. And I said, And you know what? I'm going to need a new dog in the next 12 months. How about we do an assessment? 

They were terrific, you know. Of course they they were very keen to do that. So they, they'd worked with me a little bit and saw me operating with Corey. They knew I was a pretty high functioning handler, and I walk a lot of miles every week, so. Or kilometres we say these days, I do a lot of... distance. Like today, for example, this morning alone, Grant and my Labradoodle and I, who walked with us, I have him on a strap around my waist. This is how good the relationship is between my dogs. We have walked 12km this morning.

17:07 Peter

Jeez.

17:07 S4

You know. So yeah, it's a pretty it was a pretty decent walk. I had my daughter on the phone. We were talking about some stuff, and, you know, we're on this meandering along and the dogs are cruising along. We're doing our thing. And so God knew that I had fairly high usage of my dog. And I do lots of things walk with Beyond Blindness every week. And I... tend to keep myself pretty fit and active. I use public transport, all that sort of stuff. And I do travel sometimes. So planes, trains. Corey's been on ferry the whole lot, you know. And so they knew that I knew how to handle a dog. 

So when they transition you to a new dog, they they match you to the dog that they think's going to work with you. You get an interview, of course, they talk to you about your life changes since you got your first dog and all that sort of stuff. And so they match you with a dog. And, um, I got all the questions, and you know what I was saying to the ABC earlier this week, I don't think I would have cared what sort of personality they got as long as the dog could keep up. Because the dogs tend to want for you and their Labradors, they're all nice. They're all just a little bit different. 

And I think in terms of functionality, they knew that I could handle the dog. And in that way as well, it meant that my my training the second time around was a lot shorter. I didn't need as much training to handle the dog. It was more to get the dog used to working with me and getting used to the routes and all that sort of stuff that we, you know, the regular things that you do like going to the shops, going into town, catching the bus, you know, those sort of things, going to the dog part very important. And so yeah. So they knew all that. 

And so matching was pretty easy. So I, I think late June they told me, We're going up to Queensland - we found a dog we think will be a good match - fingers crossed. Well they got back and by the end of July Grant was at my house. So how good is that you know. Yeah. So I'm very, very grateful to them. They're a terrific organisation, terrific people. And... I feel really supported in that regard. But yeah, you're right. There's... a lot goes into it. And... different people have different levels of training. So we're all different. 

And our... thought experience, as you know, is also very different. I've got a little bit of vision and sometimes it's a little bit better than others. If the light's good, I might even be able to see the curb ten feet in front of me. You know, some people can't do that and some people can see a little bit further. So that's how it goes. And the thing about Grant, if he gelled with me really quickly. So we were... well, I hate to say it, but probably taking shortcuts, you know, taking some of the shortcuts you'd take with a more experienced dog a little bit quicker than you would with a new dog. 

Things like, I'll give you a quick example, but every time five when you're turning right, when you're learning, you stop and you make a formal right hand turn, which is, you know, be an indication moving your feet around and waving your arms around, things like that. When you experience with your dog, it's fine, right? And the dog would just do it, you know? So that stuff was a little bit quicker because Grant is with me really quickly. I think it's probably because I had a bit of confidence as well. So that's helpful. Overconfidence is helpful.

20:15 Peter

Grant says that - a day at a time this time, but fascinating. Thank you for spending a bit of time with us. I've really enjoyed and appreciate it.

20:22 David

You're more than welcome, Tia. Thank you very much for your time, [Steve].

20:25 Peter

That's David Brown, who graduated with Grant yesterday along with a number of other guide dogs from Guide Dogs SA and NT.

20:33 Program ID

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20:43 Peter

Well, certainly an event with the difference happened a few days ago. To tell us more about it, we've got Sarah McGoram. The event was to raise money for Rare Cancers Australia, and she was going to share a bit of time with us. Sarah, thanks so much for your time and thank you for speaking to us.

20:57 Sarah

Oh my pleasure, Peter, thanks so much.

20:59 Peter

How are you going... a few days after the event? Still catching your breath?

21:03 Sarah

Yeah, absolutely. Muscles are definitely a little bit tender and... a little bit worn out. The walk was a little harder than I had imagined, but... yeah, definitely got to the top with absolute glee. And... the downhill was definitely much easier than on the way up.

21:20 Peter

Okay. I've heard often that the downhill can be a little more dangerous, because I guess you're kind of a bit more relaxed. And, you know, you kind of think, Well, that's... the achievement done. So... you got to, you know, sort of keep your... heightened awareness up all the way down.

21:33 Sarah

Yes, that's true. I think it probably had more to do with the number of times I stopped for snacks and enjoying the view. That's perhaps why it was a bit easier for me.

21:43 Peter

Well, I think you're quite entitled to do that. And as we mentioned, you did it for Rare Cancers Australia. You happy to share a little bit of your story with us? I believe you've been living with your diagnosis for quite some time.

21:54 Sarah

Yeah. Yeah that's right. I... so actually just on the weekend just... turned 47, but... I've been living with gastrointestinal stromal tumours, which is a type of rare cancer, since I was 18 years old. So my entire adult life has been navigating cancer treatment and trying to stay on top of the disease. Unfortunately, there has never, there hasn't been a cure. And they haven't quite worked out the cure yet, but a whole range of treatments to... slow progression or stop progression for periods of time. 

So... being a rare cancer, I think presents a whole range of different challenges to perhaps more common cancers. Although, of course, all cancers are horrendous in... all cases... but yeah, it has been a very, very long haul. But, you know, I also appreciate that I'm one of the fortunate ones that am still alive to be fighting and navigating such a relentless disease.

22:58 Peter

You said a rare cancer. Was it difficult to have it diagnosed with a sort of telltale signs that things weren't quite right? And I mean, you know, obviously at 18 you kind of think, Well, my whole life's ahead of me... you know, I it shouldn't be happening to me.

23:09 Sarah

Yeah. That's right. I've actually had three years of just feeling unwell and chronic anaemia, and my parents just kept taking me to different doctors and getting second opinions, third opinions. And at one stage, they thought maybe I might have had lymphoma, but they weren't sure about that. And it wasn't until they did exploratory surgery, because I'd had a major internal hemorrhage, that they found over 50 tumours in, inside my small bowel. So... that was a definitely a pivotal moment in my life. It was six months into uni of primary school teaching. Three. And, yeah. 

So... it was at that stage I had just turned 18 and was at, you know, what should have been the beginning of... a fairly carefree... and adventurous time. But, had my wings clipped a little bit with... just the burden of managing the disease.

24:05 Peter

What about your quality of life now, Sarah? What's that like?

24:07 Sarah

My life has been action-packed and wonderful with tremendous quality... in so many ways, but... it's definitely different to the life of someone who has... who's more healthy, I guess, you know, every week, month, year. We have different checkpoints to navigate. Have the tumours grown and if so, how much is the emerging treatments working? How long will they work for? So that is my normal. That has been my normal since I was 18. I'm fortunate enough that I met a my fabulous husband when I was... probably about 3 or 4 years into my disease, and he was willing to take me on and everything that came, the complexities with it. Because my prognosis when diagnosed was around about 12 months.

25:01 Peter

Wow.

25:02 Sarah

And so we everything in my entire adult life has been that sense of living on borrowed time. But... I guess because of that, we seize every opportunity we can to live life as full as we possibly can, when my health is in reasonable shape - and then store up the energy to then navigate eight weeks like this week where I'm... in the midst of radiation treatment, where the focus is just getting through, getting through the treatment. And I'm fortunate to have a village of people that can then just support us and help with food and transport and all the difficult things that that come with managing a complex disease.

25:46 Peter

I think that probably says a lot about the person you are, though. It had that sort of village helping you out. That's kind of... testament to... you and your character and... I guess the, good stuff that you give off, if I can put it that way.

25:58 Sarah

Oh, that's lovely of you to say.

26:00 Peter

Yeah, obviously you get it for Rare Cancers Australia - I guess kind of almost by definition because it's a rare cancer, the research going on in those sort of cancers is probably less than, you know, the more well-known cancers. Is that a kind of a bit of an issue as well?

26:14 Sarah

It sure is... it can be gruelling and somewhat heartbreaking to watch the speed for rare cancer diseases and treatments. When I was diagnosed, there was no treatment, no cure, and which was where my 12 month prognosis has come from. Over probably the first 15 years of my disease, I hadn't met another single person who had the same disease as I had. So navigating that is quite difficult, and just someone to be able to understand what you're going through. 

And perhaps, yeah, I guess getting that support... there are I think, what is reassuring in, you know, in particularly in the last ten to fifteen years is the development of research in genomics, which... gives I think so many cancer patients hope that there's a, just will be a... that they will work it out. Eventually we will all find out how the tumours are... you know, how they're growing... how we can target treatment so every single person can get the treatment that they deserve. Whereas at the moment, with the current way, that funding structure that, for research and for treatment, there is a huge inequity between having a rare cancer and a more common cancer.

27:42 Peter

So what about the kind of complementary side of things, just in terms of the dietary complementary medicine meditation, that kind of... non-medical sort of stuff, are you much into that? And B, does it make much difference? And like I say, do you even believe in it?

27:58 Sarah

Look, I, you know, I think from a personal point of view, I know that from my wellbeing, my mental health, eating well, staying active, makes me feel better. There's no question about that. Improves my quality of life all around. I've also been involved in clinical trials where... there's been evidence that the effectiveness of treatments have been improved, moved by physical activity and high intensity workouts - so that without a doubt... so I embrace... I'm at the gym three times a week and I'm really hard on staying fit, eating well, and then more broadly, you know, meditation...

And... all the allied health professionals I lean on tremendously, to climb Mount Kosciuszko. It was exercise physiologist, dietitian nutritionist, physiotherapist - there's a whole team just to try and help me get up the mountain. And, you know, just meditation and mindfulness, I think, benefits everyone in society - just to try and, you know, face the challenges... that... everyone faces. 

I think what does frustrate me sometimes is that just because you have... the complexities of cancer doesn't mean you still don't get pressures of paying the bills or getting stuck in traffic or... you know, What am I going to cook for dinner? All of those ones are still there. So, you know, I find that, you know... mindfulness and meditation is... really helpful, in moments like that.

29:31 Peter

So you talked about enjoying it on the way down. What was it like when you actually got to the top? And I said your husband was with you? I think... other, or friends and family with you as well when you got to the top?

29:41 S8

Yeah. So I've climbed a few times before this particular walk, my husband and I, we walked together, so we have a... 18 year old son who has walked with us in the past. He finished school last year, and... has just started a new job. So we said, you know, Focus on that. And we climbed up the mountain together, and it was wonderful. It was... definitely the hardest work I've done compared to the previous, because... of my previous surgery and just being in recovery and silly enough to tear my ACL and meniscus, won't be here for Christmas time - but that was just playing beach cricket with the family, so that was purely self-inflicted. 

But yeah, climbing to the top, especially with 700 other people who were there for the same cause, for the same reason that they were they were there, you know, huffing and puffing and and fighting as hard just for all of the patients. You know, I felt like I was walking - yes, for me and, and our family, but more so for the patients who are no longer with us or the, you know, tens of thousands of patients who are just not well enough to walk themselves. 

So just being able to be a patient, walking amongst so many people who, you know, whether they're in pharmaceutical industries or other community groups or other families, you know, just being in a space where everyone was united for such an important cause is energising and gives me hope as a patient, and I got many messages from other other patients with the same disease from around Australia that... felt buoyed and... felt the gratitude of... so many people fighting and... working so hard to try and improve the system that we currently have, just to make it more fair.

31:36 Peter

Sarah, it's been a delight to speak to you - thank you so, so much for spending some time, particularly given the fact you're also going through treatment and recovering from the climb, Climbing for a Cause. If people want to find out more, I guess the Rare Cancers Australia website is a good place to go if they'd like to help out. Is that... a good starting point?

31:53 Sarah

Yeah. That's right. The... team at Rare Cancers Australia are a remarkable group of people, and they've got an amazing new website that... is really full of information about how they can... support the organisation or how, if they're a patient, how they can access... support themselves. And they've also got... support lines as well that you can call up. And I think what's... so remarkable about them is that, you know, as a patient, when you call up - and they have thousands and thousands of patients that phone up - they just, they're always there. 

And they'll... help in any way they can, whether it's navigating you to, you know, a range of different supports or even just listening or if you're, you know, needing financial support to... fund treatment. They're just a remarkable organisation that are just there to support people in every possible way. So their website's a great place to start. And you can pick up the phone and have a chat. That's the best way.

32:57 Peter

We'll put those details up there. Show notes. Sarah, it's been a privilege speaking to you. Congratulations for what you're doing, and we wish you well.

33:04 Sarah

Wonderful. Thank you so much. And thanks for for for giving us time for such a... an important cause close to our heart.

33:11 Peter

That's inspiring, isn't it? That's Sarah McGoram, who just recently took part in the Climbing for a Cause, getting right to the top of Mount Kosciuszko.

33:20 Gemma

Hi, I'm Gemma Finlayson, a silver medalist in bocce in the Paris Paralympic Games, and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

33:39 Peter

For the Autumn Equinox has just happened, someone who brings more than just balance to our lives is Allison Davies from Allison Davies dot com dot A U. Ali, lovely to speak to you again.

33:49 Allison

Thank you so much, Peter.

33:51 Peter

Now, at last time we spoke to you, you talked about ageing voices - and my kind of take-home message from that was kind of... you know, Enjoy the fact that you're ageing - it's part of the natural course. But towards the end of it, we started talking about, we started reminiscing about some of the concerts that we'd been to - of, shall we say, mature age performers. And you said what would be a good topic for next time is, what happens to us at concerts. So over to you, Ali.

34:17 Allison

Okay, so I think this really is I'm so pleased that Former Me suggested this topic because Future Me or Present Me is very happy. It's really, really important to understand that when we go to a concert, if we're in the crowd, we are having equally as musical an experience as the famous musician on the stage. So when we are, music is an experience, not a skill. So when we are experiencing music together collectively, especially at a concert, because whether it's a small, intimate concert or an arena, you have people collectively having this experience together. 

It is so regulatory for our nervous system. It feels so safe to feel connected with other people in a way that you know you're complete strangers, but you're having an experience that matches when you're at a concert. You can look around and make eye contact with people and know that you're having a experience together. Do you know what I mean?

35:16 Peter

Yeah. So even with the crowd kind of joins in with the chorus or something.

35:20 Allison

Yeah. I mean, it's similar to if you're at a football game or something, if that's your thing. And well, actually, there are similarities to this - because picture yourself at a sporting event and everybody's singing the sporting team song.

35:32 Peter

Yeah.

35:32 Allison

Anthem - there's a shared connectedness in that. You don't have to be good at singing. You don't have to be able to sing it in pitch or anything. The expectation is, you're part of a community, and we're all chanting this thing together because we have a shared connection of love, admiration, passion for this team or whatever it might be. So all of a sudden, there's no musical expectations on you - it's just a, you are part of this, you are part of this community, and every voice is welcome. 

It's like that at a concert - when we go to a concert and we sing along and we clap and we sort of dance in our seats, or however we might mosh in the mosh pit, there's no expectation of us to be doing it a certain way in that moment. We're expressing ourselves musically without there being a standard that we have to meet. It liberates us, it's very liberating, it's very freeing - because we are, all humans are musical, but there are certain environments where we feel like we have to be good enough at it to be part of it, but going to a concert is not one of those times. 

When we go to a concert, we can express ourselves musically in the audience and know that that's okay, that it's safe, that there's no... focus on how good we are at it or not. And so even though the person on the stage is the "musician", quote unquote, that we've come to see who has the skills that make them, you know, so amazing, they are sharing in the same experience as us. We're all collectively equal. And that's one of the things I love about going to a concert.

37:15 Peter

You are so insightful. Because actually, just in the last few weeks, we've had the Adelaide Fringe Festival on, and one of the things about the Fringe Festival is invariably they hold it at very sort of, shall we say, boutique venues and very small crowds compared to, say, an entertainment centre or even an outdoor concert. And I went to a couple, and one of them there was probably sell-out, there was 100 people. I know that for a fact. Or that was the capacity, and it was sold out. 

And another one, I guess there would have been maybe 25 to 30 people at it. And the atmosphere, understandably, was different. And I even, like feeling the connection with the performers was different. So that's... quite an incredible comment that you made. And, you know, sort of, so timely - given what just happened to me in the last few weeks.

37:59 Allison

Yeah. And isn't it a welcoming feeling? It makes you feel like, Oh, I've been part of something more than just a gig, or just. I've been part of... you go home feeling soothed and like you belong, because that is how a musical performance impacts our nervous system. So when we go to a gig or a concert, we're hearing melody and rhythm and all other elements of music and those - they do things to our brain, you know, they inform our brain. They tell our brain how to inform our body, how to move. They help us release and express and move, emotion. 

So when we go to a concert, we will feel things - and the feeling of things, it doesn't have to be drastic, you know, but we still feel lots of feelings at concerts - and that releases emotion from our body so that our body is lighter and then our brain feels safer. And it just has such a snowball impact on what's happening from a regulatory perspective. And that feeling lasts long after the concert, so it will help our sleep that night. Well, it depends what kind of concert we've been to. We may be wide awake and not slept that night. However, it will increase our capacity to cope with triggers or difficult things that pop up the next day. 

And maybe the next day, and it will... help us feel lighter and able to cope with emotional baggage or burdens or triggers throughout the week. Because the act of going to a concert removes emotion from our body, so we have more capacity. So there's all these invisible things happening that we don't really know about. So going to a concert, even if it's a small one in your town hall, in your very small town, you're having the same regulatory impact as if you were, you know, going to something huge and epic - and very therapeutic.

39:52 Peter

Invariably, we go to a concert because we like the artist. Sometimes maybe you might be dragged along by someone because they haven't got anyone else to go with, or you got to come along and see this person or this group, this band, this orchestra, whatever. What if you kind of don't like it? I mean, you talked about, you know, if you can connect and the, the whole... crowd is like into it, as it were. What if it doesn't quite do it for you?

40:16 Allison

Well, this happened to me once. I went to see the band America. Oh, you know them?

40:22 Peter

Sister Goldenhair.

40:24 Allison

"Been through the desert on a horse with no name"... And I went to the concert and I couldn't stay in there. And it wasn't because of them, but it was because of the sound. And it was probably because of where I was sitting and the speakers. But I found was just like sensorily overwhelming for me. And I didn't know I was autistic back then, and I didn't know I had... auditory difficulties. And so I just left and waited out in the foyer, and I listened to it through the foyer, and then the sound was much easier to cope with. 

So whatever your needs are, I think being accountable for your needs - if you are at a concert and you're like, Oh, I don't like this, this is making me feel annoyed, this is making me feel stressed, this is making me feel... whatever word it is that's uncomfortable for you... it's OK to leave. And it's not always a reflection on the artist. And it's OK, you don't have to feel like you're offending someone - because self-accountability for our needs is a really, really responsible thing that a lot of us don't actually know we are able to do. So yes, it's OK to leave a performance if it's making you, if you're feeling things that aren't comfortable.

41:36 Peter

At that point, you do make... because sometimes, you know, obviously for whatever reason, the quality of the audio is better at some concerts than others. And as you quite rightly point out, it depends on, you know, where you land as far as your seat goes.

41:48 Allison

Absolutely. And it genuinely isn't, it's not like if you leave, people are going to think, I don't like that person or I don't like that band. It doesn't have to be a judgment call. It's just like, if you can be neutral about just doing what you need to do to feel safe and feel, you know, soothed and all the things you want to feel, then leaving a concert that doesn't feel good is just... neutral. Like just a a basic part of taking care of yourself. 

And it doesn't have to mean that you're being, like, petty, or I think, I'm too good for this or I can't waste my... I bought the tickets, so it's a waste of money. Like even if you've bought the ticket, you're going to want to feel good rather than feel bad at the end of it. So it's OK to leave. It's okay to do what you need to do.

42:35 Peter

Cut your losses in a sense. We're talking obviously what we've been talking, I've been thinking more about sort of pop concerts, rock concerts, etc. What about, say... an orchestral performance or an operatic performance? Something a little more... shall we say, more mellow?

42:52 Allison

Well, the same thing. But the thing about sort of classical or orchestral music, is it, by the nature of that kind of music, it's so repetitive that it's going to, like, really soothe you. So I mean, all music, by the nature of being music, has elements that will impact our brain in lots of positive ways for the most part. Most music does that. But classical is one of those real like this is definitely, it's like a lullaby. It's so soothing because of the repetition and because usually in classical music and orchestral music, the melody goes up and down as if it's on ladders. It doesn't bounce all the way around the place like jazz, which can sometimes feel confusing. 

But then it also comes down to your individual musical profile. So you might be someone who has had an experience with classical music that has been part of a trauma or something like that. So wherever you are and whatever situation you're in, if it is not safe for you, it's OK to leave. I mean, classical music is definitely used as lullabies, and it's definitely... one of the things that we know, there was a whole book written on it, The Mozart Effect, which is about using Mozart to support brain. And a lot of the science in that was debunked. 

But also, I think there were the signs was probably a bit problematic. And I think there's still a lot in... that theory that classical music can support your brain to function at its best. But still, if it's bringing up stuff for you, and that's like everybody's life has had experiences that no-one else can fully understand, and everybody can potentially have triggers with different types of music. So yeah, by all means, leaving a concert if it's harmful is really, really good for you.

44:43 Peter

Yeah, well, it's probably better to leave early than to stay and do more damage.

44:49 Allison

Yeah, I would say for me personally, I love an orchestral performance. Ah, I wish I could be one of those people who just go and watch all the symphony orchestras all the time.

45:00 Peter

Well, I don't want to get too much into the weeds. We're running out of time. But my earliest recollections of... orchestral music was actually going to the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra a number of times as a child, and I was sort of cool, hip, happening person, but I thought I was I was more into rock and roll, so it's probably not quite the same for me, but that's exactly...

45:20 Allison

See, we're all so different.

45:21 Peter

Story for another day.

45:23 Allison

Yeah.

45:24 Peter

Great to catch up - Allison Davies dot com dot A U is your website. You've got... YouTube and Instagram and all those other cool things that people can access. Great to catch up. We'll speak again next month.

45:35 Allison

Thanks so much, Peter.

45:37 Peter

That's always fun, isn't it? It's more than fun, it's educational as well as fun. So we're learning without realising. We're learning. Allison Davies says if there's a topic you'd like to cover, get in touch, and... we'll ask Ali to do it.

45:49 Vision Australia ID

You're listening to Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide on 1197 AM.

45:55 Peter

Well, for the first time, let's talk about an organisation I haven't heard of before: Salute for Service. To tell us a bit more about it, and some of the gaps they're trying to fill, is Mark Diplock. Mark, great to meet you. Thanks for your time.

46:06 Mark

Yeah. Thanks for having me along, Peter.

46:08 Peter

Tell us a bit about Salute to Service, how and why you set it up.

46:11 Mark

So Salute to Service has been around in the background for a few years, but really hit the ground in the last six to eight months. We went through and we actually identified quite a few gaps that the veterans and veteran families are needing around the country, and areas where the support isn't probably the best. So what we decided to do was... set up an organisation that's going to be grassroots, hit the ground running and deliver good, high quality services to those that really need the support and have positive outcomes for those veterans and families.

46:43 Peter

You're talking about services in all sorts of areas. I mean, one of it is, I guess, transitioning back into things like employment and society.

46:50 Mark

Yeah, we've got a program called Combat to Career, which is both for veterans who have been out for a while, but also for those that are transitioning out of the ADF at the moment. You know, we're seeing over this year alone, over 7000 ADF members are transitioning from the defence force. And for those that are transitioning out, you know, there's for a good majority of those that are transitioning out, there's extra needs that they're requiring. They're looking at different roles. They're looking at different jobs and trying to utilise their skill sets that they've learnt in the military and translate that into civilian life. 

So we're there to help them and assist them with that, give them a bit of guidance and coaching. But also we work with really high end suppliers and employers around Australia that really value that veteran work ethic, and they're happy to support the veterans and their families.

47:41 Peter

Well, I think [?Conor McPherson], admire what they've done and obviously appreciate what they've done. So I guess without being too glib about it, it's kind of, the least we can do is kind of walk them back into either a business or into society in general.

47:55 Mark

Yeah, exactly, exactly right. You know, the the glamour of defence has changed over the few years. I remember myself being a military child or what we call a military brat, growing up with both parents in the defence force. And, you know, it was it was a proud thing to be in the... military. You know, over the, over the last few years, I think the... lustre and the shimmer has sort of diminished a little bit. So it's... vitally important to help those that are needing that extra bit of help and support. But also, you know, the... skill set that they offer, you know, back into the wider community is fantastic. And it's second to none.

48:33 Peter

Of course, even things like discipline and... those sort of skills and those sort of characteristics you have to display to be able to serve well, would be the sort of thing that most people would welcome into their... business or indeed into their community.

48:46 Mark

Yeah, definitely the... leadership and the ability to think on their feet, get things done is fantastic. Unfortunately, there is a bit of a narrative out there that all veterans are broken and busted... which isn't true. It isn't, it isn't correct. You know, some veterans have got, you know, some injuries, bad knees, bad backs, bad shoulders. But they're still, you know, fully functioning and able to contribute to any organisation or business that's out there.

49:13 Peter

Like, is the problem made worse or accentuated is probably a better way to say, the longer someone has served - like, the longer they've kind of been out of regular life? Is that, that's one of the kind of challenges that you got?

49:26 Mark

It is one of them. It's quite interesting. There's a few particular challenges that are highlighted, and those that are joining the defence force are very young, you know, that are getting straight out of school, 17 years of age, haven't had much life experience to then be indoctrinated into the defence force where, you know from day one you're told you know, when to go to bed... how to dress, when to eat... and then coming out of that life where you've got a lot of support in... the defence to try and then navigate, you know, what's out there in the wider community, things like Medicare Cards, Services Australia... 

And then add in complexities like an injury on top of that, whether it be a physical or a psychological injury, it just makes it ten times harder.

50:12 Peter

Great point. Now you're obviously looking to... beat around a little while and sort of ramping up at the moment, looking to kind of be a long term, quote unquote, solution to the issues that are out there.

50:23 Mark

Yeah, definitely. We're actually opening up our first Salute for Service centre in southeast Queensland over the next four weeks. So we've... secured a location in Woolloongabba where we'll actually open the doors up for veterans. We'll do a lot of stuff around that combat career... and employment services. But also, we do the grassroots support too, for veterans as well from that location, which is things like financial aid and financial assistance, direct financial support. 

We're receiving a lot of requests for support at the moment. You know, veterans are finding it hard with that, you know, cost crunch of living at the moment. Plus also things for the families as well, you know, supporting the kids and the partners of those veterans, which is just as important as supporting the veteran.

51:07 Peter

I was going to make that point about the families as they... like, you know, partners and also children.

51:13 Mark

Yeah, it's... very difficult. When you look at sort of the family dynamics for somebody who's in the defence force, you know, you're getting posted every two years, so you go from one city to another, which makes it difficult if you're in a family relationship for that partner to have a long term career. Yeah, they're pretty much having to upshift their life. And we see that a major difficulties for partners of current serving to get long-term, really meaningful careers. 

But then we also see the impact it has on kids. I remember myself, I think I over the twelve years of schooling, I think I went to eight different schools. Yeah, because we were posted around, to each different location. Now, in saying that, like Defence do help and support, it's not all doom and gloom. You know, a lot of those kids I found for myself, I was it made me very adaptable to be able to lift and shift and and find new friends continually. But we also do see it does affect some kids with their education. So we run education programs for those children with tutors and just to give them that leg-up, so they've got a bit more of an advantage.

52:21 Peter

It's very comprehensive. Now, what have you got happening at the moment? Have you got a giveaway happening at the moment, have you?

52:26 Mark 

We definitely do. We're quite lucky to be donated a brand spanking new Toyota Hilux Rogue, which was fantastic. And... we decided that it was a great way to get the brand out, to give it away to either a current serving veteran or a ex-serving veteran. So with no tickets, it's not a raffle that they've got to buy tickets. It's pretty much they can jump on our website or follow one of the posts that's on social media, register their details, and they're in the draw to win that. 

What that has actually done for us is, it's identified for a lot of veterans, the support that what we do provide. Salute for Service, over the last eight weeks, we've already had over 2000 veterans around the country reach out for some form of support from Salute to Service.

53:13 Peter

I guess that's kind of sad in a sense, but also very much speaks to what you're doing and kind of affirms that what you're doing is... something that is so much needed.

53:22 Mark

Yeah, definitely. We pride ourselves on the team that we have that support. The veterans, you know, from our... ops managers are all veterans who have gone through their own lived experience. So they're able to provide that guidance and that support really directly to that veteran. And yeah, the care team that we have in our case, coordinators and case managers that really have that strong passion... to support the veteran community is... just great. So hopefully we'll see us expand into a few new locations over the next 6 to 12 months across the country as well.

53:57 Peter

I was going to ask you about that in terms of... I guess, you know, you want to well, part of the expression, but crawl before you run - and rather than, you know, bite off more than you can chew... better to do what you're doing well now, and then expand.

54:10 Mark

Yeah, definitely. And I've been in the... ex-service organisational space for the last eight years myself with other organisations. And there is a lot of providers out there. You know, we do see in the ex-service organisation space, I think off the top of my head, it's about 4000 other providers around the country that do all some form of support for the veteran community. So we're making sure we have a really marked and measured approach to our expansion. We don't want to grow and then retract, but also we want to partner in with other organisations. You know, there's only so much that each organisation can do - but as a collective, you know, we're pretty much unstoppable in... that veteran space.

54:49 Peter

It's a fantastic attitude. Mark, if people want to find out more, as I said, you've or as you said, I should say, you've got a website that people can go to and also the conventional social media channels as well.

54:59 Mark

Definitely. So people can jump on and have a bit of a look at Salute for Service dot org... or even jump on either Instagram or Facebook, and check us out. Have a bit of a look. And also those businesses that want to support or get involved or are looking for employees, there's a pathway for them to be able to jump on. 

And over the next couple of weeks, we'll actually fire our website, launch our national toolbox, which is going to be one of the largest veteran informational hubs for all veterans. Whether you're currently serving, getting out, or your families requiring support, there's everything on there from information around psychology, you know, physical health, psychological health... there's meditation programs, there's yoga sessions, there's... relationship programs... that's been designed for all veterans all around the country that they can access for free.

55:54 Peter

Mark, great talking to you. We wish you well in the future and hopefully we can speak to you again, because this has been most enlightening. And... congratulations on all the initiatives you're undertaking.

56:03 Mark

Thanks, Peter. Thanks for having me on.

56:05 Peter

That's Mark Diplock there from Salute to Service. We'll put all those details up with our show notes, but... we certainly wish them well. Filling a very important gap.

56:18 Program ID

Welcome aboard the Leisure Lift. Please select your floor.

56:33 Peter

Always an absolute pleasure to welcome to the program for our regular yoga segment, Reeva - love to have you back with us. Thank you for your time.

56:41 Reeva

Thank you Peter.

56:43 Peter

What have you for this afternoon or this evening?

56:45 Reeva

Neck movement, something that's often overlooked. But people certainly do get tight necks, particularly if you're working at a desk or something like that, because your head is always forward that little bit. But a lot of the time we don't realise how tight our neck actually is. And you can do this any time, and we work with the breath as well, which helps to make it even more relaxing. And one of the things is when you're doing them, just move your head gently. You don't do this fast. You're making it tighter if you're doing it fast. 

It needs to be done... and I've got about one, two, three, four, about four here. Even if you only do one during the day, something like that. When you're having a break or something, just do some neck movements. It's very beneficial for you. [?He wrote.] Let's make a start here. First of all, we're going to do some forward movements, and this is just with your head. So shoulders come straight back in there, nice and straight. Now take a breath in. 

And as you breathe out, slowly bring your chin forward and halfway down, pause another breath in and breathing out, gently move your head forward and down, tucking your chin in towards the notch at the bottom of your throat. It doesn't matter if you can't touch it, you just take it as far as you can then and don't let your shoulders move forward. Keep them nice and straight and have them dropping back and down. Now keep your chin tucked in. Take a breath in and then, breathing out, slowly move the chin towards the right shoulder. You might not be able to reach it, but you take it as far as you can. 

You feel stretching on the left side of your neck and the top of your shoulder as you take, depending on how much your neck is tight, but you will feel that tightness coming in is to turn the chin, and slowly you take your breath in and slowly breathing out, come back to the center and then you have a slight pause, and then we take the head to the left again, breathing in first. And as you breathe out, keep that chin down and slowly turn your head to your left. Pause again and have a breath in. And as you breathe out, bring your chin back to the centre... and that's it. 

And you can do that 2 or 3 times. Make sure your shoulders don't move forward at all when you're, you know, turning your chin around. Get them back and down. Keep them relaxed with the chin one when you bring it back to the centre. If you're lifting your head and you take the head halfway first, take your breath in and then breathe in. Get up about halfway, and then another breath in. And as you breathe out, straighten the neck up so you're back to your start position. 

Now, this next one would take the head back there, breathing in, keeping your head straight. Stretch. Stretch the neck up a little. Just a little. Not all the way. Have another pause here. Let the breath out. And then as we breathe in again, we take the breathing out. We keep the head back towards the ceiling. Now. So you're stretching your throat here, yeah. Your head is back and you're stretching the throat, the muscles around the neck there as well. And you take another breath in and breathing out, bring your head halfway back forth again. Breathe in, breathing out, bring your head back to the centre. We're turning your head to the start position. 

It is... critical in a way, don't bring it back fast. It's better to take your time bringing it back. Uh, particularly with people who are in a year, 60 plus, perhaps, a bit more. Now, where are we? Yeah, we've got a side wave. Turn again. Head nice and straight. Make sure your shoulders are back and down. Take a breath in. Then breathing it slowly, turn your head to your right. Make sure that left shoulder doesn't follow the head around. But here you pause, then another breath in and breathing out, bring your head back to the centre again, pausing that breath in and breathing out. Slowly turn your head to your left side and make sure that right shoulder doesn't follow around. 

When you're doing this particular one, you can bring your arm around back behind you a little bit, and that will make sure that your shoulder doesn't turn when you're turning your head. Okay. So... and you keep that arm relaxed and then again, you keep that breath in and bring your head back to the centre. So you go to the right side first, and then you go into the left side. And you can repeat that 2 to 3 times. And as I said, you know, if you put your arm just behind your back comfortably there, when you turn your head, that makes sure that that shoulder, If you're turning the head to the right and make sure the left shoulder doesn't come forward and try and follow you around. 

Now the next one is ear to shoulder. Now, you probably won't be able to get the ear to your shoulder, but and again, you've got to keep your shoulder down. You don't lift the shoulder up, so you get it close to the ear to hear. So you need to keep the head nice and straight until we kick the head towards you know. So here again take a breath in. Breathe out. Tilt the right ear towards the right shoulder or. And breathe in and breathing out. Bring your head back to the centre. Then you have that slight pause again. 

Breathe in and as you breathe out, tilt your head towards the left shoulder. That slight pause and then, using incoming breath and breathing out, bring your head back to the centre. Very simple one. And you can again, you can repeat that three each side 2 to 3 times, Let me assure you that. Lift your shoulders up. Yeah. Now, to finish it off. Lift your shoulders up and place the back of her head. So you bring your head up and back. So it's back of the head is between your shoulders. And then you slowly turn your head from side to side. Don't do it fast. 

And is it sort of a relief, the area that occipital part of our head. And you just turn it slowly a few times that back to the centre - just give your shoulders a bit of a shrug and that's it benefits all the nerves connecting different parts of the body with the brain must pass through the neck. So this is a vital crossroad in the body and should be regularly exercised. Tight neck muscles impact on the ears and eyes, and tightening of the upper shoulder area, and gently stretches cervical bones of the neck and stretches the throat. Muscles and vocal chords help to ease headaches. Very relaxing and you feel so much better in yourself when you do these. 

So that's it. Very, very simple movements. But always do it slowly. And once you got used to these, and as I said, you breathe in and breathe out turning your head. And you pause. Take a breath in. And as you breathe out, I'll get people to bring the head back to the centre. But you can if you can breathe slowly and fully, you can take your head straight away to the other side. Always moving slowly. So you don't don't necessarily. Have to have that pause in the centre each time. But that's only if you can breathe. Sort of slowly out so you're not waking to take your head to the opposite side.

1:04:09 Peter

I was actually doing it as you were going through it, Reeva. I was following your instructions as you were speaking.

1:04:15 Reeva

Oh, good. Peter, I like it when you do that.

1:04:17 Peter

Nah, it was very easy to follow.

1:04:19 Reeva

It is. It's very simple. I said we tend to neglect that head, the neck, until it's really tight. And by doing these, make it a practice. You know, sometimes in the morning, the way you factor what you've been doing, you know, in the previous day, you'll wake up on your next tired - and so do them in the morning or after work when you're back home relaxing, not doing anything much, you can do them, you know, don't watch the television.

1:04:49 Peter

I needed you to remind me to... don't go quickly, do it slowly - because the temptation is to do it quickly. So we need you in the background saying to just take it slowly. We need that reminder.

1:05:02 Reeva

Yeah, that's right. It's take it slowly. Slow down. You've been busy all day at your office or whatever work you're doing, wherever you are. And it's a slowing down, relaxing you. And even though we're working on the neck, the relaxation. Relaxation comes through the whole body. But this is the brain, and we're relaxing the brain as we're doing... these movements.

1:05:24 Peter

If people want to contact you for one-on-one, how can we contact you?

1:05:29 Reeva

Yes... 0412 866 096.

1:05:35 Peter

Reeva, you have a great month. We'll catch up after Easter. Have a good Easter and a good month.

1:05:40 Reeva

Oh, golly, that's coming up quick for that. All right, talk to you then, Peter.

1:05:45 Peter

All the best, everyone. Reeva Brice. That absolute gem - hashtag Campbelltown Senior Citizen of the Year. 0412 866 096 if you want to contact Reeva. 

It's always great to get the latest information in the area of accessibility and technology with the Adjunct Professor from USC, Denise Wood - Denise, welcome again.

1:06:16 Denise

Hello, Peter. Good to be with you today.

1:06:18 Peter

Now lots happening - CSUN, were you telling me just before coming to, where, their 40th anniversary? So they must be doing something right.

1:06:25 Denise

That's true. Well, in fact, March marks the... two big events in our calendar. So we also have Microsoft's 15th annual Ability Summit, with over 20,000 attendees from 164 countries. And we might pick up on some of the announcements at that event at our... on future sessions together. But yeah,CSUN, 40th anniversary, it was held from the 10th to the 14th of March. It's... an annual event, that really focuses on the latest innovations in assistive technology. 

And of course, we've come a long, a long way in 40 years, of which... we know that... AI is now featuring very, very strongly in many of the... product announcements and demonstrations at CSUN this year. One of the really exciting innovations that was...  demonstrated at CSUN this year is called Glide. It's available for pre-order already now. It looks like a bike-cam with wheels on the bottom. And it's a robotic device, but... it is for those with... who are blind and vision impaired. 

Now, this is basically a smart white cane that will take you wherever you need to go comfortably, safely, and independently. They're in the alpha testing stage... but they're expected to start delivering in what would... in the Fall for the US, which I guess is around September this year. So if you go to the Glide, and Got You Covered. There are videos and demonstrations, but but essentially you walk along, holding the ergonomic handle in one hand in front of you at whatever pace, and it guides you steering its wheels. 

It has smart obstacle detection for stationary and moving objects, so they claim you can navigate really high traffic areas. It has cameras and sensors so it can detect waypoints, line of sight targets. It has a haptic handle, so it also has that feel to it. But it also automatically brakes when you arrive. It also, as you are walking, audibly describes the active scene around you to keep you updated on your environment, and you will be able to pre-map the route that you are taking so that it already knows the direction that you need to go. 

And in the demos and the videos, you can see that it also guides people. If there are objects at the chest level, for example a branch in the way... so it is based on a high intensity computer vision and sense making based on AI, which connects all active Glides and powers their ability to understand complex spaces and guide you through them - using real time data from their advanced sensors to map the best routes, identify targets of interest, and avoid obstacles. So... really exciting technology. It extends to 22in in height, when fully extended, but it's a telescoping handle. Has the built-in speaker microphones, Bluetooth connection, programmable buttons. The terrain wheels have intelligent steering, power assist, dynamic brakes. 

There's this stereo depth camera with 50 foot range and near range for obstacle and cliff detection. The rechargeable battery for six plus hours of active use and full day on standby mode, and it can be charged just with a normal USB-C cable and it only weighs... this is US, so we're talking... pounds, that only weighs six pounds...it, and which is a very, very light device. So, they're available. You can go to the website and preorder already. I haven't checked on, you know what their global delivery will look like over time, but... check it out. It's very exciting technology. 

So also from CSUN demonstrated in the area of smart glasses was smart glasses called Echo Vision, which they claim will revolutionise independence for the blind and low vision. And I guess, again, the Be Us, but they're available for preorder at four for 49 USD. So they claim it's not just any old smart glasses. It is designed with the blind... to empower individuals to access vision information effortlessly, live with hands free. They are pretty cool looking glasses. They're not chunky and ugly like the ones we've seen. So it provides live prescription assistance. 

So it will describe what's in front of you. You just press a button and receive detailed descriptions of the surroundings. And it will work whether you're in a crowded street or a new environment. It has hands-free remote assistance, which means you can connect to, you know, the applications we've talked about before, Be My Eyes. And there's another one very similar to Be My Eyes now that was also shown at CSUN called [?Aira]. So that with hands free, you'll be able to ask for a loan... sighted people to help you. If the, I guess if the auto generated details are not sufficient, it has seamless text accessibility. So using your glasses, you can read mail, manuals and other printed handwritten text. 

Obviously, that's using advanced OCR optical character recognition technology to convert that printed text into spoken words. And it has open air Bluetooth audio. So being open air, of course, it doesn't stop you from hearing other you know what you need the safety, other cells in your surroundings. So, but no-one else in the room can hear what is coming through those speakers as the Bluetooth audio. So they're lightweight men's cutting edge technology with sleek, fashionable design, comfortable to wear are all day. And as you know, we've seen, RayBan and and Meta and collaborating too. But this looks to be... one step even further ahead. 

And also, there were a number of new innovations in Braille displays. Orbit Reader announced a couple of different models which have... a Qwerty keyboard. And there were also Braille displays that are multi-line. So some new devices coming on the way. This particular one, the Orbit Reader, can be used standalone or connected to a computer or mobile device. It has a book reader mode, note taking mode, and can connect up to six computers and mobile devices over tooth or USB. It works on all, pretty much all the popular operating systems. So, and some some really good innovations coming, coming out, that are out there. 

Sony was also... showcasing itself, fitting over the counter hearing aids at the moment, still only available in the US, but this is also a trend, of course, we are seeing, which is much more affordable and less obvious as assistive devices in that hearing aid space. And you may not, from see some, but you may also have seen the update that, Apple's AirPods Pro 2 are now available in Australia, which will provide both a hearing test for you as well as hearing aids. And they were launched actually yesterday. So hot press... 

And just looking at some of the commentary from... National Acoustic Laboratory and other... health experts in this space, they're seeing it as a positive. They're saying, you know, obviously they are more affordable. It will encourage more people to seek professional help if the hearing test indicates that they may be having problems so they don't actually see that it will, you know, be a competition, if you like, for the gold standard in hearing aids, there will be still people that will need those. But for those that just need that additional amplification.

1:15:31 Peter

Denise, thank you for that - we'll leave it there. We'll catch up again next month.

1:15:35 Denise

Sounds good.

1:15:36 Peter

Thanks.

1:15:37 Denise

Bye.

1:15:37 Peter

Adjunct Professor from USC Denise Wood. 

Therry have got their next season coming up very soon. Sounds like a fantastic show, as always. Let's chat about it with their president, Jill Bartlett. Always great to catch up. Thanks for your time.

1:15:54 Jill

Oh, you're most welcome, Peter. It's always a pleasure to speak with you.

1:15:58 Peter

Now, you've got this great tradition, haven't you, that after the Fringe and the Adelaide Festival, you kind of come in and keep the festival spirit going?

1:16:04 Jill

Well, it's not just theory that does that. There's quite a few theatre groups who cannot get their usual venues during the Fringe, so their first show for the year is immediately following the Fringe. So there's quite a few theatre groups opening their shows in the next week.

1:16:20 Peter

Youo care about their work. You don't care about the others? 

1:16:24 Jill

Yeah, well, we do care about them, but... we do care. Yeah, that's right, guys.

1:16:28 Peter

That's right. Well, tell us about the show, then.

1:16:31 Jill

Oh, this show is called Mum's Gift, and it is a comedy. And it's a lovely little setup - the story... nd I don't usually go for this sort of story... Mum's been dead 11 months, but she comes back as a ghost. But the only person who can see her and hear her and talk with her is her older daughter. Nobody sees Mum, hears her, commutes with her. So Mum makes an appearance 11 months after her death at her... husband's birthday party, and their older daughter, who's in her 20s, has been court-ordered to attend the husband's birthday party or her father's birthday party. And it's part of an anger management course, because she assaulted a police officer. 

There we have the older daughter, university educated, highly intelligent young woman, a water engineer meeting her mother, who has been dead 11 months, and Mum has to resolve an issue to get her ghost's wings and she doesn't know what the issue is. And there's lots of issues in this family. Mum deceased, Dad, two daughters, one in her late teens, one in her late 20s and the boy next door and the nosy neighbour. It is a very funny tale, but there's a twist in the tale at the end, towards the end of the show. So it is a comedy, but there's a bit of a heartwarming twist in it. 

We're not allowed to say that it's a South Australian premiere, but it is the first time it's been staged in South Australia. Written by an American writer, Phil Olsen, multi-award-winning... play and screenplay writer. And I don't think any of his plays have been done in Australia. I should have actually, because I initially contacted him when we found, when we saw this play and by email, and he of course, very nicely referred me to the agents. 

But... the playwright has given us permission to Australianise the play, because originally it was set in in a town in the United States, in Minnesota. But he's given us permission to Australianise it. So we're referring to AFL football and an Australian things. And of course, we've Australianised the title because the original American title was "Mom", spelt with an O in the middle.

1:19:18 Peter

Yes. You said you don't normally go for this sort of thing. So what swayed you with this?

1:19:22 Jill

I personally don't like these ghost story type things, you know? I just think they're way out.

1:19:30 Peter

Okay.

1:19:30 Jill

But this one has got so much human interest and so much comedy in it. And the twist at the end, it really, really moved me. So I just loved it. There's just something about this story that really appealed to me, and fortunately appealed to the other people on Therry's committee who read scripts, and the director wouldn't have put it up if she didn't like it. So there we are. We open on Thursday the 3rd. We've got performances on Thursday and Friday at 7:30 p.m. and then over the weekend on Saturday the 5th and Sunday the 6th, we've got matinees at 2:00 in the afternoon, and then the following week, Wednesday the 9th, which is Saturday the 12th. We play each night, and then on the Saturday we also have a 2:00 matinee.

1:20:20 Peter

You got three matinees. You got the Saturday, Sunday, then the following Saturday.

1:20:24 Jill

Saturday and the Sunday of the first weekend and the Saturday of the second weekend. And tickets are available through try booking or if you go to the Therry website, there's links there to the various shows that you can book on. If you are already a subscriber, you can ring and book and you get all that information in your subscription booklet. But if you're not a subscriber, think about subscribing to Therry because it's excellent value. You can buy a double subscription, including the musical, for $180. So that's $90 each - gets you two plays and a musical. Now, the normal price for our musical is for an adult is $50. And for our straight plays, I think we're now at $35. So it's a fair saving. It's a discount about 30%. 

But the other thing with this year, with buying a a subscription or every year you buy your subscription, you can buy it with or without the musical, but if you buy it with the musical, you're still entitled to unlimited specially priced tickets to the musical. And the musical this year is the beautiful and wonderful Come From Away. Now, if you haven't seen it, it is one of the best musicals you'll ever see on a stage. And as a subscriber, you get unlimited tickets for $35, so you save $15 a ticket. Your musical tickets and you can bring friends. Give them away as birthday presents. Wow. And of course, if you go to the website, there's a link there to subscribe online.

1:22:10 Peter

Jill, who's directing Mum's Gift?

1:22:11 Jill

Mum's Gift is directed by first-time director Lucy Johnson. She's only a young woman. I shouldn't say "only" - she is a young woman with a fair bit of experience in theatre and she has assisted others to direct. But this is the first show she's directed, and she's doing such a wonderful job of it, and she's got a wonderful cast too. I don't know whether any of your listeners will know Jenny Allard, Zoe Battersby, Jessie Corrie - she's been in a number of Therry shows. Katie Packer and Rodney Barton are both, they play the mother and the father. They have both worked with Therry, but as musical directors, they've never been on stage with us before. 

All right. There's somebody new to Therry. Paul and Angela Short, who's assistant to the director and also has a small role as Mrs. Nora Norquist, the nosy neighbor, the nosy and inappropriate neighbor.

1:23:10 Peter

There's got to be one in every show, doesn't there?

1:23:12 Jill

Yes. Yes. Look, I can recommend this to you listeners, but if they're going to come along, please consider subscribing because you will not regret it. Our last show for the year is another zany comedy called I Do, I Do, I Do. I'll talk to you about that later in the year. The program is certainly worthwhile, and you can buy a single if you're a single person, or if there's three of you want to come along, buy a double and a single.

1:23:42 Peter

Now, Jill, as you mentioned, you can't book online. But if people do prefer ringing, you can do that as well.

1:23:48 Jill

Yes you can. We, I'll give you the mobile phone number if somebody wants to pick up a pencil now. The bookings are from 12 noon until 5:00 on Mondays and Tuesdays, and 12 noon until late the other days, and the number is 0411 924 566. And I'll repeat that: 0411 924 566.

1:24:20 Peter

Perfect. Jill, we'll put those details up with our show notes as well. So if people have missed that they can check them out there. Good luck. It sounds like a lot of fun and certainly good to keep the... festivities rolling. So... good luck to you and the staff and... good luck to you and the cast. And also, it's great that... sort of new chums getting different roles to... also... show their work. So they'll be pretty excited about... a season like this.

1:24:43 Jill

Wonderful. Thank you. Peter. Always lovely to speak with you.

1:24:46 Peter

Jill Bartlett there, the wonderful president ofTherry Theatre. A season of... Mum's Gift coming up from April the 3rd. If you've missed those details, you can go to our website. Or also you can check out 0411 924 566. 

Early call through from Andrew Kyprianou. Club call for April is happening on Sunday the 13th of April. Please note, Sunday the 13th of April for Club Call. Not clashing with Easter Sunday. 

A quote through from Gail who quotes Oksana Masters, who was a Ukrainian Paralympian. Oksana's quote is... The race of life is run better when we have our effort with love rather than anger. So thanks very much for sending that through, Gail, from Oksana... and Stacey has sent in quite through, it's not so much a quote, but it's something that she wants to share with you. Stacey says... I call my [?Mike John] Gym - because it sounds so much better when I say first thing I do when I get up in the morning is go to the gym. So thank you, Stacy, for sending that through. Certainly put a smile on our faces. Hopefully it did that for you too. 

Birthdays before we go. Jonty O'Callaghan, our champion Paralympian having a birthday. Also twins having a birthday. Surprisingly enough, Brad and Wayne Kinross. Wonderful basketballers. Happy birthday to you two fine gentlemen. Also, Saskia Newman having a birthday - captain of the Australian women's Deaf Football team. Of course, the 2027 games being held in Australia. And Gerard Mentis having a birthday, former leader at Vision Australia. 

That's it for the program - coming up very soon, a very happy Vikki Cousins - the SANFL is back... so is Vicki. Well, Vicki's always here, doesn't go away like the SANFL does. Vicki's here with Australian Geographic - please stay tuned for that, you won't regret it. Sam Rickert, thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. Reminding you that Leisure Link is available on that favourite podcast platform of yours - please tell a friend, always room for one more listener. Thank you so much for joining us - all being well, Leisure Link back at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network. This is Leisure Link.