Breakthrough efforts - in swimming, bowls, tennis and medicine

00:16 Peter

It's just gone 5:00 and with Go Joe representing Australia at Eurovision, we go with Leisure Link here on Vision Australia Radio - 1197 AM Adelaide, online at varadio.com, Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin... through the TuneIn radio app, through the Community Radio app. Look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide, your favourite podcast or streaming service. If you're listening through 103.9 FM in Esperance in Western Australia, a big hello to you, if you're listening to Reading Radio Network in Tasmania, an equally big hello to you. And of course we get wonderful support from Disability Media Australia - thank you for your support. You can find out much more about them on Powerd Media - find out much more about them, including download link. 

Peter Greco saying wonderful to be here. Thank you so, so much for making time to listen to us. This program coming to you from Kaurna land. Coming to you very shortly ... we'll speak to Russell Leary, the father of Lexi, who captured all our hearts at Paris and Nepal with some wonderful performances, world records, gold medals. What's it like being a dad of a Paralympian - and in particular the... life story that Lexi has had - we'll share that with Russell - and also an opportunity for you to get involved supporting the Paralympic movement as they look towards future Paralympics. So Russell very soon. Also catch up with Janette Barrett and also Claire Baskett. They're just back from the National Lawn Bowls Championships for athletes who are blind or low vision. How did that go? How did they go? We'll find out very soon. 

Andriana Petrakis - Adriana has just been representing Australia in the sport of tennis in Astana in Kazakhstan. What was that like? Andriana always doing lots of wonderful things. Pam Mitchell will join us - our resident counsellor. Pam's topic today is the highs and lows of life. I think we can all identify with that. Pam will join us. We'll also catch up with Doctor Tessa Boyd-Caine with a really interesting and important conference, a sensitive conference being happening at the moment, domestic violence, particularly amongst partners, particularly in younger people. So Doctor Tessa will tell us much more about that. And Professor Linda Malyshkin will join us from the Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre. Some really good news as far as some medication coming on to the PBS, for people with endometrial cancer, that may be good news for you or someone you love. 

It was a wonderful time in Paris, particularly for our swimmer Lexi Leary, who won gold medals, broke world records. What was it like for a parent? Let's catch up with Lexi's dad, Russell Ross. Great to meet you, and thanks for your time.

03:08 Russell

No worries Pete. I love being on. Yeah. What an amazing journey from a girl that was never meant to walk or talk again, three and a half years ago. To go to Paris and win a gold medal - so emotional. And it was quite crazy. In the morning, she broke the world record in the heat. And she never swims a faster heat than she does in the final. So that night we're thinking, Oh, the American has got her on the ropes here. She came out and broke the world record again, and one that was quite crazy.

03:36 Peter

Now you were there, Russ. That must have been an enormous thrill.

03:38 Russell

Yeah, there was after in about 27, 27 of us all family, friends. It was amazing. All dressed up like... Steve Irwin's park kangaroos and bloody everything.

03:49 Peter

Yeah, well, Lexi did remarkably well, as you pointed out. We expected her to do that. Well. I mean, her form had been good, obviously, to have qualified for the Australian team, but did she even surpass path that you and her expectations.

04:02 Russell

Oh, she definitely did like. Yeah. I think that the hardest thing that happened, she had to race the first race for 50 upper grade. And this is where the American popped out of nowhere, and she beat her in the 50. And then we realised that the American was an F9, not an F10. So that means Alexa had to challenge her in the 100. But thanks to Mollie O'Callaghan and a great email, a great message to Alexa, it fired her back up and she thought, That's it, I'm going to go for it. But to break two world records in the day's unheard of, and win a gold medal.

04:32 Peter

Now, as you said in in 2021, Lexi had a serious cycling accident. Take us through that - and I mean, I guess the the recovery from that. 

04:45 Russell

Yeah, it is quite a story. Alexa wanted to be a pro triathlete and she wanted to go to Paris as the triathlete now, whether she made it or not. But she was going quite well. Coming down the hill one day, 70K an hour, clipped a wheel. Over she goes. We were told that day clearly that if she gets to Brisbane alive in the helicopter, she will be, she'll have no quality of life and if she's lucky to walk or talk again. So we had five months in the hospital, three months in rehab. She started to use swimming as a rehab and we ended up taking her to Adelaide, actually to the Australian titles. That's where the para team picked up on her and put her in the development squad, and it all went from there.

05:23 Peter

How tough were some of those times for her?

05:25 Russell

Very tough, very tough because she had to learn to do everything again. She didn't know how to brush her teeth, comb her hair. She lost all her hair because they took a scalp off on the first night, because it was swelling so heavily, and it ended up having to put a shunt in to drain the fluid from the brain. So her whole life had to start again. And she's got brain damage. And this is the issue. You know, people don't see it. She looks great up on stage, but she's got a traumatic brain injury. And that's why we're so grateful to Paralympics, you know, to get Alexa on this journey and get her to Paris. And without that we would not have the girl we've got today. So we're very grateful for what they do.

06:01 Peter

It's a very powerful message. What about in terms of getting through some of those tough times? I guess you support each other. What about from outside the family circle who kind of played roles in that rehabilitation?

06:13 Russell

Oh, everybody. You know, we lived in neutral. It's like a... great community. She was working at F45. They got behind it. Remember, we left two boys for five months. For 3 or 4 months. You know, they had to have... you know, people taking food around to them, looking after them. So, you know, everybody got behind her, and then, you know that the whole of Australia got behind her. We started the foundation called Move the Legs, which because she couldn't move, so let's get others moving. And it went viral, which ended up raising 300,000 for the RWVH.

06:43 Peter

That's incredible.

06:44 Russell

I said the main one, the main one that... got got behind her is Paralympics, you know. You know, they got all the right people in place for her, the coaches, the specialists, you know, the... everybody. So we're very gifted. And that's why I'm saying it's a great foundation.

07:02 Peter

What about the way Lexi conducts herself on television and just generally... you can't help but love her? I mean, you're right. That's that's the stupid thing. That's the stupid thing to say to you. But you know what I mean?

07:13 Russell

Look, I think what happened, that she's so raw and her brain doesn't have a filter, so, you know, she says it how it is, and sometimes it's got to be some VIPs coming out, but it's... and she's raw. And, you know, she captured the hearts of the nation because, you know, not many people have ever come from where she was to win a gold medal. So all of Australia was behind her, which was incredible.

07:36 Peter

And the fact that you as a family were prepared to share the story. I mean, I often say, Russell, you never know who's watching who or who is listening. And, you know, one word, one sentence that someone utters can mean so much to someone out there listening or a member of their family.

07:51 Russell

Oh, 100%. We get a lot of people come to us. What would you do in this circumstance? You know the child's had an accident. We quite regularly go to the Royal Brisbane Hospital to check on the Ada South ward there, where we talk to parents and talk to people, and people reach out all the time. But, you know, there's the thing just you never give up. That was the thing. We just never gave up.

08:11 Peter

I know that obviously Lexi had been a promising athlete anyway, but do you think that kind of helped with the rehabilitation and and the determination and the resilience?

08:21 Russell

Oh, she was a spirited athlete, I'll tell you, the best leg was the swimming and triathlon. So she'd always come out of the water first. But... yeah, it was that spirit would come clearly on the night of the accident that if she wasn't young and fit, she would not be with us.

08:34 Peter

What's that like? I mean, without sort of rehashing old times. I mean, what's that like? Because, I mean, you know, everyone says, you know, the kids aren't supposed to go first. It's not right. That's not the order of procedure that should be followed. But when you're told that sort of news, I mean, you, you kind of think, Is this just... a dream or is this a nightmare?

08:54 Russell

No, no, the nightmare was, It was... and it went on in ICU for 12 days, you know. Every day we left that ICU, we didn't know whether we were going to come back to her the next day or not. Basically, you know, one of the last days where they had to take the breathing tube out because of infection and pneumonia, and she was breathing on her own, but not a lot. And you know that that day they took another guy through about the same time. And, you know, we hear the coughing spluttering ended up breathing. But the poor other gentleman, he passed and the doctor said clearly to us, Well, we thought that was going to be Alexa. So it did... it's tough to listen to that stuff and go through it.

09:30 Peter

It's incredible, isn't it? What about, so Paris was an incredible... situation. And of course... quite a bit has happened since Paris in terms of the... media attention and the recognition, the Australian welcome home. How've you gone with all that, Russ?

09:45 Russell

Yeah. And it was great. Like the love that... she loves the line like she did before the accident, you know, after the accident. And she's been great because she's trying to help promote, you know, the Paralympics charity. And she's behind all that. She's very good with disabled children and talks to them and helps them, you know. So, you know, and she handled it very well. She does public speaking. You know, she gets a bit tripped up. But people understand she's got brain damage and she inspires people. She inspires a lot of people.

10:11 Peter

And when she's talking to kids that know her story, it's got a got a bit more believability than an IT or a physio telling them, hasn't it? You know, she's been through it. So she's come out the other end. It's got a lot more cred.

10:23 Russell

Oh, 100%. You know, and your parents see Alexa and they look at their child in the ICU and they go, how will my child ever come out? And it gives them faith. You just gotta, you know. And the doctors will tell you the worst they have to because that's what could happen. And you just gotta have faith.

10:40 Peter

Hey, Russell, what about the fundraising side of stuff? Lexi sewed herself into this campaign as well.

10:45 Russell

Yeah. It's amazing. And she really wants it. And we never realised until a few months ago that it was a charity. We just took it for granted that the government paid for all the travel and accommodation, uniforms, coaches, all the staff. We just took it. You know, government paid it. Government paid the bit. But we then said, Well, let Leary family get behind it and push it and educate people that the para need the support of the public. And that way that will get our athletes to LA, to the world titles, and we'll get other athletes involved in the long term.

11:19 Peter

Because there's probably only one Lexi Ross, I'm sure of that. But there's probably other athletes out there almost as good or almost as deserving or that could get that opportunity.

11:28 Russell

And they did, right. And with this, the fundraising that we're doing that will help these children, they'll be inspired by Alex and it'll give them the journey. Because there's children today that don't understand. They're going to LA Games because they haven't had the accident yet. Exactly like Alexa. Great point about, when para... she thought, You were going to Paris as a pro triathlete and she goes as a para swimmer. So, you know, people today don't know that they're going. And that money then will support these people to be able to get there. But it's very important that the Australian public understand that the Paralympics needs money.

12:02 Peter

It's a fantastic message. Hey, Russell, what about for you? Obviously success has been good. You've got a bit of limelight yourself. You don't handle it too badly. You enjoy it.

12:11 Russell

How about getting blown away, to give you the thrill?

12:13 Peter

Well, fair enough.

12:14 Russell

You know, but we don't mind sharing our story, giving it out to everybody. Because if one little thing can help somebody, we're happy. Because when we went through it, we didn't understand. We didn't have people to lean on. And we're happy for people to lean on us and we'll help.

12:27 Peter

It's a great attitude, Russ - to you and your family and to Lexi, of course, congratulations. Thank you for spending a bit of time with us. And yeah, we can all get behind the Paralympic appeal, it's a great idea, as you say. You just never know who might be representing Australia in the future. So thanks for spending the time with us.

12:42 Russell

Thanks, Pete. You're an absolute legend. Cheers, mate.

12:45 Peter

Russ Leary, the father of Alexia Leary, a couple of gold medals and world records at the Paris Paralympic Games, and the Paralympic Appeal. We'll put details up with our show notes. Well, the National Bowls Championships for athletes who are blind or have low vision have just wrapped up in Western Australia. Let's speak to a couple of people who did very well at it. First of all, Jeanette. Jeanette, thank you for your time and congratulations.

13:11 Jeanette

Thanks very much, Peter.

13:12 Peter

Two gold medals.

13:13 Jeanette

Yes.

13:15 Peter

Well done. And your Director who probably needs all the credit - is that Claire Baskett? Claire, thank you for your time.

13:21 Claire

Thank you.

13:22 Peter

How did you get involved with lawn bowls and how long ago was that?

13:24 Jeanette

It was 23 years ago, and I was playing golf, and one of the ladies at golf said, Come on, we're having a fun day of bowls. Come and have a go. And then I never stopped from there. I kept playing golf and bowls.

13:38 SPeter

So this is blind golf or golf for people who are blind?

13:40 Jeanette

No, I didn't have... I had my sight then.

13:43 Peter

Okay, so...

13:44 Jeanette

I was only in the last ten years that my sight's been going.

13:48 Peter

What's that adjustment been like, to play now with a vision impairment compared to when you had sight?

13:52 Jeanette

Well, yeah, it is a bit different, but... I do get a lot of help from the club. All the members... tell me my distance and and tell me how short I am or how long I am. And my line. So they're all good.

14:06 Peter

And, Claire, how did you get involved being a Director? How did that partnership come about?

14:09 Claire

Well, Jeanette's my sister. 

14:12 Peter

Oh, okay. Well, yeah. Okay.

14:14 Claire

And I bowled at the same bowling club as her. And as she was starting to lose her sight, because I had helped the intellectually handicapped before, I knew about the blind bowlers and how they worked. And so I was able to give her some guidelines. And then I talked her into joining the blind bowlers herself.

14:34 Peter

Which club is that, Claire?

14:35 Claire

Edithvale Bowling Club in Melbourne.

14:37 Peter

And it sounds like all... or a lot of the clubs give very good support to those who are blind or low vision, [?] vision to play.

14:45 Claire

They do, they do... it's a very accepting sport to play, you know.

14:51 Peter

What about your success in Mandurah in Western Australia? Tell us... how were you bowled? You've got five minutes to do all the bragging you want.

15:01 Jeanette

It was very exciting and they're all lovely people. It was just great. Yeah. I think my background knowledge of bowling before I lost my sight gave me some insight. I won three club championships and and pairs and mixed bowls at the club before I lost my sight. So I have that background of knowing how to bowl, which some of the blind bowlers I bowled against are just learning as blind bowlers, which makes it harder for them. But they're doing well, they're doing well.

15:32 Peter

So I think it's an advantage to have bowled before and then adjust your sight loss, but sort of keep the the muscle memory of being out of sight.

15:40 Jeanette

And keeping fit.

15:41 Peter

Yeah. And it's obviously very important. And that's the great point that Jeanette makes, because the nationals, they're pretty full on in terms of the amount of bowling you do, aren't they?

15:50 Jeanette

Oh my goodness. I didn't think my body was going to get through. Very intense, very intense. Two and three games a day for eight days straight is a lot of a lot of strain on your body. And as we get older it doesn't get any easier. But yes, it's, uh, we got through on Sunday. We were a bit down and we didn't think we were going to make it, but, um, Monday came and that only meant that we had two and a half days to go. So then it was fantastic, from then on.

16:19 Peter

The finish line was in sight.

16:20 Claire

Absolutely.

16:22 Peter

Clare, when you go to a place like Mantua, obviously you have a look around. Are there things that you can kind of pick up on at a place like that that you can... convey to Jeanette that might be different from, say, bowling at home?

16:34 Claire

Yeah, certainly the length of greens can always vary. Mantua was 32m... it was 33. I've bowled, done some that are 40m long. So we walk it out first and... make sure that she's got an understanding of the depth of the green and what sort of surface you're playing on, whether you're playing on grass or synthetic or inside carpet, outside greens. They're, they all run differently. But that's the same whether you're blind or you're not blind. And anybody that's going to a new club takes all that in. But because Jeannette hasn't got her sight, we walk it to feel it and and get the feeling of the distances.

17:14 Peter

And that's all stuff that you kind of learn as you go along. Part of the experience.

17:18 Jeanette

Yes. It has been. Yes.

17:20 Peter

Because, you know, you say to me 32m compared to 33, I'm thinking, well... what's a metre like? That's not really much of...

17:27 Jeanette

A difference in the weight. The weight and the line are the most important things involved. And so Claire was very good. She was really brilliant as my eyes. She just told me if my line was just out, she might say, Just two inches. And then she'd tell me I was two metres long, so I knew I had to take that weight off. So she was very good. Couldn't have done it without her.

17:51 Peter

No. It's very kind of you to say that. Now, I understand that, like two inches off or two metres long... I kind of understand that. But then how do you kind of translate into how you bowl? I mean, is that just through experience?

18:03 Jeanette

Just through experience, yes. 

18:07 Claire

It's also... Jeanette doesn't realise that she does adjust the way she bowls a little bit, that she either doesn't bring her arms through as quick or, you know, if I was to say You were ten metres through, she just would adjust her arm swing to not go as fast. Yeah, probably something she does automatically, but I notice straight away, as soon as she's bowled.

18:26 Peter

Happy to share a bit of your thought life with her. So what was the situation that had you losing some sight?

18:33 Jeanette

I've got macular degeneration because I'm 91 years old.

18:37 Peter

You are not.

18:38 Jeanette

I am, yes.

18:41 Peter

Oh, I tell you what, Jeanette. I mean this in the most, you know, kindest way: I hope I sound like you when I'm 91. You said about, you said about 51.

18:50 Jeanette

Well, I'm still very fit, so that's got me through the... days.

18:54 Peter

But it's amazing.

18:57 Jeanette

So I've got macular degeneration. I've got no central vision in both eyes. So when I can see... the light, there's... they put lines on the green. So I use those to get my line. But once the bowl's down, I lose sight of it. So I go back to Claire and she tells me how it's going.

19:16 Peter

Has your sight deteriorated over the years?

19:18 Jeanette

Yes, yes, yes, it started ten years ago and it's probably... as worse it'll get. So I've just been to the ophthalmologist today, and he said, The bad news is, it's worse. The good news is, it probably won't get any worser, if that's a word. And... so I'm happy because I'm coping.

19:37 Peter

So there's categories out there for lawn bowls. There's B1, B2, B3, etc..

19:43 Claire

Yeah. Then B4, yeah.

19:45 Peter

What... are you doing at B3? Okay. Yeah. So... you've got...Yeah. 

19:50 Jeanette

Well so I've got... a peripheral vision... peripheral.

19:57 Peter

Yeah. So, so people with RP for example, have got tunnel vision so they can see straight ahead. But you've got the... opposite sort of... 

Jeanette

That's right, that's right. 

Peter

Does that matter for lawn bowls? I guess people with my condition can play.

20:11 Claire

Yes definitely.

20:13 Jeanette

Definitely.

20:14 Claire

And get it out there for us please. It's... just such a wonderful thing to go to a carnival like we've just been at, and everybody's got a different story of how they've got there and and how they've overcome things to... be able to bowl. It's a beautiful sort of...

20:32 Peter

Things are important, aren't they? Because if you're losing your sight or you've lost your sight, you might think, Well, you know what's next for me? Oh, woe is me. But I guess meeting people like you, that that kind of picks up their spirit and think, Well, if Jeannette can do it, then I can do it too. 

Claire

That's right. 

Peter

Sharing that message.

20:48 Jeanette

Yes. One of the ladies there... was thinking about giving it away, and she said she was inspired by me because she's a lot younger than me, so she's going home to practice.

20:58 Peter

Ah. That's fantastic. Well, and I'll tell you what, we're not only inspired by you, but your performance is two gold medals. Was it best... ladies or best bowler overall?

21:09 Jeanette

Yeah. That's right.

21:10 Peter

Oh, gosh.

21:11 Jeanette

And I've just been to the club and they've got balloons and signs and...

21:17 Peter

Oh, how fantastic is that!

21:17 Jeanette

Yes. Look, anyone who wants to get into bowls, doesn't matter whether you got or you haven't... it's just a great sport. You meet lots of people. If you only want to play social, you can do it. But I'm very competitive. So I love Pennant and I'm still playing Pennant.

21:34 Peter

Oh, that's... so you play against the other people who are who've got sight?

21:38 Jeanette

Yes, I play with sighted people, I play... and I play lead. Now, I've always used to play third. Yeah. But... it feels good because I don't have to worry about balls in my way, or just set it up.

21:51 Peter

So you bowl first.

21:52 Jeanette

Yes.

21:53 Peter

What about your role, then? What's it like out there? Because I guess, you know, you can give all the instructions you like, but sometimes it doesn't quite turn out. I mean, it sounds like Jeanette is very good at it, but sometimes it doesn't quite work out. How do you kind of respond to that? What? You have to be a bit of a psychologist out there as well.

22:08 Claire

Yes. And a positive person helps the the positiveness of, That ball didn't go how we wanted it to. I know you can do better... or you know, just that encouragement to... for the next bowl. Don't think about, alright, you put the bowl down, hasn't worked - let's get on with the next one and think about that instead.

22:27 Peter

There's only us three here. No one's listening. Do you ever have to be... a little bit stern sometimes?

22:32 Claire

Well, she told.... me I'd pick her up, but I don't, I have missed her...

22:38 Jeanette

That's what sisters are for.

22:39 Peter

Of course. Well, that's right.

22:41 Jeanette

Oh, it's an interesting stat. Jack McShane won the indoor World Bowls at 19. At 91 Jeannette won the Green Bowl as National. So you just turn the 19 around.

22:53 Peter

Oh, what's... what, 72 years between?

22:57 Jeanette

Yeah that's right. Anyone at any age can bowl.

22:59 Peter

Okay. That's a really important point isn't it, that, you know, years ago, maybe people thought, Oh, lawn bowls is for older people, but that's not the case.

23:08 Jeanette

No. Not anymore. All our... champions now are young, but it's great. It's great. And they play with us. We've got young people at our club and they're happy to play with us. It's... all good.

23:20 Peter

Very inclusive.

23:22 Jeanette

Mm.

23:22 Peter

Very good. Yeah. One of the interesting things about lawn bowls is, I mean, I... speak to people who play all sorts of blind sports... football, cricket and other... sports, goalball, etc.. I mean, their equipment, if you like, is adjusted for their vision impairment, which is fantastic. But in lawn bowls that's not the case, is it?

23:41 Jeanette

No, no, the only thing that we have is we have every two metres down the side of the green, a number which gives us the meterage. So when I play with Claire, she's my skipper. She says when the jack's down, That's 25m. So I know the length that I've got to try and bowl to.

24:00 Peter

That's fascinating. And that that, for example, wouldn't happen if... you weren't playing... that marker isn't there normally.

24:08 Claire

Yes.

24:08 Jeanette

Well, when I practice I use big white buckets. So I instead of rolling to the jack I roll to these white buckets. That's my practice.

24:17 Peter

Because you can see them.

24:18 Jeanette

Yeah, I can just see them. But yeah, I certainly can't see the jack. But yes.

24:23 Peter

Tell us a bit more about what happened to the club today then.

24:25 Jeanette

Well, because we only come home from Perth Tuesday, yeah, I just wasn't going to bowl today. I was just need a bit of a rest from bowls.

24:34 Peter

So I figured. Fair enough.

24:36 Jeanette

I just walked in and they've got balloons, they've got big signs - Jeanette the champion, and... they're all cheering. And then they came in, three cheers. So it was really lovely.

24:48 Peter

What's that make you feel?

24:49 Jeanette

Oh, very, very humble. Very humble.

24:52 Peter

Well, it says something about you that the club would go to the effort to do that as well, though. So as I say, that says a lot about you.

24:59 Jeanette

But it was very inspiring, just meeting all those lovely people who are out there. You know, some are completely blind with their guide dogs and they're just lovely people and they're just happy to be there. It was just... yeah, it was very inspiring, the whole tournament. And that was my first one.

25:16 Peter

I was going to ask you about that because... you know, these have been going for years and years and years. So this is the first time you've turned up to nationals?

25:23 Jeanette

Yes. That's right.

25:24 Peter

It sounds like it won't be the last.

25:26 Jeanette

Well, I've got to keep fit. I've had to go back to the gym and get keep myself fit.

25:30 Peter

And I guess that's one of the things about lawn bowls, it does keep you fit. Now, I guess if you, you know, maybe starting out, it'll help you get fitter as well.

25:38 Claire

Yes. And it's a company. It's not only the the sport itself, it's the company that goes with it  - because you always go back in and have a break for afternoon tea, have a chat and sit with your teammates or the people you're playing against, and it's just a great place to make friends. You can go to any bowling. Once you belong to a bowling club, you can go to any bowling club in Australia and walk in and say, You're having a social day that I can join up while I'm staying here. And it will always be, Yes.

26:12 Peter

That's fantastic.

26:13 Claire

That seems from the locals that maybe other people wouldn't.

26:17 Peter

I guess the club rooms is probably a little bit of shaking that goes on. You know, that good natured stuff. What about out on the green? 

Claire

Oh, yes. 

Peter

Do you talk much to your opponent? Do you try and put them off?

26:28 Claire

No, don't try and put them off.

26:31 Jeanette

They were... just a bit of shit going on.

26:33 Peter

It adds to the atmosphere.

26:34 Claire

Yes, it's the atmosphere and the... way it's played. It's played in a great jovial joking... and then you get on the mat and that's when the seriousness starts. 

26:48 Jeanette

Well, if you're playing for your club.

26:50 Peter

Yeah. Now what is your club's name? Give us that because we're sending material.

26:54 Claire

Edithvale Bowling Club.

26:55 Peter

Oh, you said that before, right? Well, have you got a president or anyone that you like to send a special shout out to?

27:01 Claire

Go, Janette. Look, they were all very supportive. We're putting little stories on Facebook every night, and we get comments from them, and that that buoyed us on and kept us going. But everybody was behind us every day.

27:15 Jeanette

And I did. I did have another sister that came with us. She came as a team manager.

27:20 Peter

Oh my goodness. It's keeping the family.

27:22 Jeanette

Three sisters. Yes.

27:24 Peter

Well, tell me what, you would have run... amok. 

27:27 Jeanette

I reckon we did.

27:28 Peter

Me mate, you're still trying to recover, I hear.

27:31 Claire

Yeah, well, they did call her the Pocket Rocket.

27:34 Peter

Okay, she that and it's been lovely talking to you. It's been very inspiring. May you bowl for many more years. And congratulations to everyone on their performances. We'll put some details up with our show notes as to... how people can get involved if they're listening anywhere around Australia. If they'd like to get involved with playing bowls, we'll put the details up. But we wish you well and I'm sure we'll speak again in the future.

27:56 Jeanette

Thank you very much, very much.

27:58 Peter

Peter, how good was that? That's Jeanette Barrett, who won two gold medals and best bowler overall, and also her Director and sister, Claire Baskett, [?] join us and all those details about ... [?] bowls up with our show notes.

28:13 Allison

Hi everyone. I'm Allison Davies, I'm a registered music therapist, specialising in using music to support our brain to function at its best. You're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

28:30 Peter

Well, if you're a regular listener to the program - and you should be - a few weeks ago, we caught up with Andriana Petrakis, champion tennis player who was off to Kazakhstan. Andriana's on back. Andriana, hello.

28:42 Andriana

Hello, Peter.

28:43 Peter

How are you going? You're still with the triple A? Always awesome, Adriana.

28:47 Andriana

Yes. I'm awesome, thank you. How are you?

28:50 Peter

Oh, not quite as awesome as you, but I can only aspire to be like that. How was Kazakhstan?

28:55 Andriana

Kazakhstan was an amazing experience with my tennis success and the cultural experience in Astana.

29:07 Peter

Now let's talk about it. We'll talk about the cultural experience, because they're probably equally important. How did you go playing tennis?

29:13 Andriana

My tennis went very well and there was a successful, tough competition against different countries that I competed on the indoor hard courts.

29:29 Peter

Tell us about some of your results.

29:30 Andriana

My results were that I had most of the wins, and there were small losses. But something really remarkable that I would like to say about my World Tennis Championships was that I won two silver medals, one for women's doubles and another one for women's team event with Kelly Wren.

30:00 Peter

Fantastic. Well, congratulations. Well, Kelly Wren is certainly... Kelly Wren has been a highly recognised and decorated player for many, many years.

30:09 Andriana

Yes she has. And my other results from Kazakhstan were that I came fifth overall in both singles and mixed doubles with Damien Phillips.

30:23 Peter

What's Damien like to play with? Is he a good teammate? Is he good to play on the court?

30:27 Andriana

Yes, he's from Coffs Harbour.

30:30 Peter

Oh, fantastic. It's a lovely place and they get good weather there, so I'm sure he'll be playing tennis there right through the winter. What about your performances? Did you think you played well? Were you pleased with that? I mean, two silver medals. Of course, you got to be pleased. But were you happy with the way you played?

30:45 Andriana

Yes. I felt impressed with my performance. And there was some tough challenges from where I played against tough opponents. So it was pretty good for me to learn that positive experience, because I kept fighting hard and I remained my composed and positive attitude on the court and off-court.

31:18 Peter

That's one of the things we've learned about you, is you... never give up. You play right till the end, which is a very good quality to have. What about some of the... thinking about what... about some of the players you played against? Did you play some players that you'd never played before in the past?

31:32 Andriana

No... I've played... the other same players in the past.

31:38 Peter

Okay. And do you feel like you're improving against them? Can you sort of sense that? You know, last time, compared to this time, you're playing better, you've improved?

31:45 Andriana

Yeah. I'm improving every day, I would say that.

31:50 Peter

I know your dad was over there. What about in terms of coaches or support staff and kind of people helping you with your tennis? Who was over there from that point of view?

32:00 Andriana

In my Australian team, there was Alison Scott, the national coach from Queensland.

32:08 Peter

Oh yeah. I've spoken to Alison before. Yeah.

32:10 Andriana

James Schubeck, the team manager from Melbourne, Amy Shepherd, the physiotherapist from Melbourne, and Steve [?], the inclusion tennis coach from Sydney.

32:24 Peter

Yeah, I've spoken to Steven before as well, so it's good. Some well-known names, and I guess it's great that you feel... like you're there with the physio, you're there with a team manager, a coach - like you're being treated like an elite athlete, which you should be.

32:38 Andriana

Yes. And in total, my team there were eight. There was me the only South Aussie... Kelly Wren, New South Wales... Damien Phillips from New South Wales, Archie Graham from Queensland, Timothy Gould from Queensland, Hayden Ballard from Queensland, Hunter Thompson from Queensland... and Amaan Ramadani from Queensland.

33:08 Peter

Yeah, Queensland were well represented, weren't they?

33:10 Andriana

Yes they did. It was for my Tennis Australian team obviously for three classifications or categories of intellectual disability, Down Syndrome and Autism.

33:27 Peter

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking about that... last week on the program. In the last couple of weeks, I've spoken to some members of the Pearls and the Boomerangs basketball teams, and they're off to the World Championships of basketball in Kazakhstan next month. So Kevin started doing a good job in that area. They...

33:47 Andriana

Yes. Kazakhstan's committee has been doing a great job for organising on time, and the event is pretty unique, prestigious and so successful.

34:04 Peter

Certainly sounds it. Now tell us a bit about Kazakhstan and where you played and what the conditions were like, and even maybe the food.

34:11 Andriana

I played on the indoor hard courts at the Daulet Tennis Centre in Astana. Yeah. Do you mean the conditions of the indoor hardcourts like surfaces or not..?

34:26 Peter

The surfaces. And also, what about just, outside? What were the conditions like as far as sort of weather and that sort of thing? Transport?

34:34 Andriana

Getting around on the indoor hard courts at the tennis centre, the surfaces were pretty good as my team and I got used to it slowly. The surface wasn't fast, it was slow.

34:53 Peter

Does that suit your play, do you think?

34:54 Andriana

I don't know.

34:56 Peter

Well, you did well, so we'll say yes. What about just getting around, transport and the people of Kazakhstan? And how did you find all that?

35:04 Andriana

We went on the bus, so it was excellent. And from your other question beforehand, I would say the weather was gorgeous, like it had a coolish type of weather. It was warm on different other days and it gets very cold at night time, which is okay.

35:30 Peter

Did you get a chance to kind of try some of the food and the different sort of cultural experiences of Kazakhstan?

35:37 Andriana

The food was so delicious. My favorite foods were the meat pastries.

35:45 Peter

Okay.

35:45 Andriana

A doughnut named Busak. I like the apple pastry, and I like the Kazakh... souvlaki type, which is called a chicken shashlik kebab.

36:01 Peter

Ah, well, being of Greek extraction, that would... you'd be a very good judge. You'd be very well experienced in judging how good that was. Did you get a chance to speak to some of the people from Kazakhstan and kind of we've made to feel welcome? Was there a nice, friendly environment?

36:20 Andriana

Yes. The people in Kazakhstan were very nice and welcoming.

36:26 Peter

They tell us about your two silver medals. What are they like? And you've won a lot over the years, the short years that we've been speaking to you, that you've been playing tennis, how would these silver medals rank as far as how you feel about them?

36:39 Andriana

When I won my two silver medals in Kazakhstan, I felt so grateful, privileged, humbled, honoured, delighted and highly impressed with myself for my outstanding performances.

37:00 Peter

You've got to be right to me. What are they like? Are they a little bit heavy, the silver medals?

37:04 Andriana

The silver medals were pretty heavy.

37:09 Peter

Terrific, Adriana. Great to catch up. Congratulations. Congratulations to the Australian team overall for doing so well. It's a wonderful result. Really appreciate you speaking to us. I'm sure [?]... it won't be too long before we speak again. And I know you've literally just got off the plane a day or two ago, so you take care and we'll catch up again very soon.

37:29 Andriana

Thank you Peter - and I loved the Battle Monument in Kazakhstan.

37:35 Peter

Just quickly tell us a little bit about that.

37:36 Andriana

My favourite place in Kazakhstan was the Battle Monument. And I went inside the circus tent shopping mall, where I love the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs architecture thing at the same city.

37:58 Peter

Fantastic. And when you finished playing tennis, you can become a tourist agent. You can tell people all the good places to go.

38:05 Andriana

That's a good suggestion, but no thank you.

38:08 Peter

All right, we'll see. Never say never. Adriana, take care. Thanks again for speaking to us.

38:12 Andriana

You're welcome. Thank you Peter.

38:14 Peter

She got back from Kazakhstan with two silver medals, and also a very successful member of the Australian tennis team. 

Well, Pam Mitchell is our resident counsellor, joins us every month with some really interesting topics and unique ways of looking at it. Pam, welcome.

38:36 Pam

Hello, Peter. Hello, everybody. It's a touch of winter, isn't it?

38:41 Peter

First, a little bit like it's coming on. Now I'm going to say this is the most inclusive topic you've ever covered, Pam, because everyone will be able to identify with everything or something. What are you going to say?

38:52 Pam

Oh my goodness, what a... lead-in. We hope... to achieve something here. And we're talking today about just good news, bad news, highs and lows, disappointments, celebrations, the contrast of these and the effects they have on us. And, you know, I'm sure all of us have got moments in in all of those categories. It's amazing what the chemistry does to us, though, in those moments where one minute the tide is in and the next minute our body feels like the tide is right out and it's taken us down the stream with it. 

So, you know, just reflecting on some of those things today, when I was thinking about what I might say for today, I was just absolutely transported back into an earlier time in my life where my mum would have to... hide my party dress. Because if somebody invited me to a party and the invitation would come home to the parents in much younger years, otherwise they'd be handed around at school. But in earlier years. And she would have to hide the party dress till the day of the party, because I would get so excited about going to a party. 

And, you know, the lovely party dress I was going to be allowed to wear, that she'd have to bring it out just like an hour or so before the party, because I would actually, by the time of the party otherwise, if I knew would just have a tummy upset, I would not be able to go. I would get so excited and I'd end up being sick. So it's just extraordinary that, you know, from one level of sheer excitement to the other of, oh, despair, because I'm not able to go now because I'm so ill - just the exact opposite of what you want to be. But the chemistry inside of me would just bubble up and take over and not allow me to go. 

So highs and lows can be extreme, or they can be less than that. And I can say I've managed to curb my enthusiasm for happy events now that I can make it to the to the place when we're when we're actually talking about other more worldly issues than my tummy upsets. And Pete, we spoke about this earlier, that you mentioned with the... story, for instance, of the two astronauts caught in space for... after they'd done their duty up there in the galaxy, here they were, trapped in this capsule for nine extra months. What an amazing circumstance that is. Can we just begin to imagine the lows? Probably more than the highs when you realize you're stuck there. 

And what would be going through their minds is this, you know, Is the food going to last? Is it... the air that we have here in these outfits we need to wear or not wear that you know, the sense of no gravity and our our health. Everything about this just the, is... the apparatus going to keep working? That... you just imagine the complexity of the issues that would plow through their minds and the means that they had between them to be able to buoy each other up to cope with those highs and lows in that atmosphere. And then the trip to get these other astronauts on deck. Goodness knows how that happens. To help be with them in support of how they re-enter the Earth... and... come back down. And yes, to be able to be stretchered off. And then... being able a few days later to meet with their families and then their convalescence out of that. 

But what I wonder, you know, I think probably most of the world at times wonder what's happened to them. We hear about that news initially, and we go through all those highs and lows ourselves in our own world. And then you think about where are they now and what does... their recovery entail, and what part of them won't recover in their aging process, in the... traumatic circumstances in which they've lived. How much of that can actually, in their PTSD environment, just go back into, inverted commas, normal? Where are they now? What happens to... that can only begin to imagine in their chemistry set, what is triggered for them in closed environments, or do they need space around them all the time? I mean actual space, not space. Just to be able to live and breathe and not be trapped in a small environment. The mind boggles. 

So that encapsulates all the highs, lows, disappointments, celebrations, good news, bad news and Where are they now? News. Just incredible. We... much more recently of course we've gone through the world has gone through... the sad passing of the much loved Pope Francis, and just what he brought to the world in in his time as Pope Hope... at being the peacemaker, being the person that would mingle with the less endowed the poor. How he would make his own life, one where he did not at all live in, what would you call it, better than life experiences and facilities, but purposely would put himself at a level that he felt still allowed him to remember. All those that are less, have less means in life and what he brought to the world, whether you're Catholic or Christian or otherwise. He still had an incredible presence. 

And it was interesting as we watched that listen to that the lingering grief, the emptiness, the uncertainty before a new Pope... was voted upon, where the white smoke would come out of the chimney after four votes of of black black smoke. I reckon one of the winners in that process were the screenwriters and directors of that film, Conclave. And that was a mere coincidence, because that film obviously was released so much earlier this year than the passing of the Pope, but goes through at a fictional, but some possibly reality of what happens when there is a changing of the Pope and then behind those locked doors and four votes later and we have Pope Leo. 

And what you saw then was this sheer joy. There's been a decision made. We have someone again. And I can't begin to tell you, just in my time over the last days where the number of people have said, Oh, but hasn't he got a nice face? And there's just this feeling of hope, hopefulness. And he looks like he's going to be good. And then we see how have different people in society claimed him - because he spent, of course, in missionary in Peru, even though he's an American born two decades, look, is sharing mission with these people in lesser circumstances. 

And so people are buoyed by that and thinking he's been in touch with the real world. He's a real hope he brings this to us. And so they have this feeling of wanting to celebrate and life after, and joy and hopefulness that fills them in their chemistry set, which is just a nice place to be. We have the lows at the moment of... not dissipating, but growing war in more countries than what we're used to or grown used to in... all of its ghastliness of the Ukraine. But now we have Pakistan. In India, we have the ongoing wars in the Middle East. 

And this again to fix so many of us that have loved ones in those areas, those countries, or that we visited those countries, and we have some attachment to that because we know what life is like there and how that's changed, it affects the way we function. It affects our mood states, the highs and lows of any day. On a lighter note, it's our sport - for Peter there, it's about the teal and the black and white. And for me it's about the red, yellow and blue. And how that celebrating and jumping off the couch and go, Oh wow, look at this. This is a win. 

And just being on that that high and how wonderful that is. And then, you know coming down in the days that follow wondering whether the next game is going to bring an anti-climax. You think about newly born babies and the chemistry changed. They always talk about the mother on the third day. That's the blue day. You know, that's the that's the bad day. And what is all that about? Well, there is this build-up. There's this incredible build-up for nine months of life, let alone the pre-planning before that. Whether that's been a natural circumstance or it's been one over years trying to do that. 

But suddenly on the third day, something happens. In reality, the baby's arrived. Everybody's in to kiss the baby and celebrate and bring the flowers and whatever else. And then life begins to return. And you see the baby that's in your arms. And you love it so much. But yeah, it makes noises and it doesn't settle and it gurgles and it all the rest of the things are happening, and we are drained of our natural chemicals that alter our state to be able to cope with those things. Weddings, funerals, all these things going on trips, the planning of a trip and then coming home. And the reality bites. Everybody's left the building after the funeral, everybody's left the building and we're left with ourselves again. 

And the chemistry set reminds us. So just when I'm talking about chemistry, just briefly going into these highs and lows, it's about the cortisol level in us. That is our stress hormone. And when there are those peaks and troughs, the chemistry set is released and it floods our senses. And what you know that takes with it is at any time from that buoyed up or that grieving process, it takes with it our sense and sensibility to be accurate about what we're hearing, what we're feeling, what we're smelling, what we're thinking, whether we're confused, whether we feel numb. It just floods all those areas. And that's what we talk about in the chemistry set. 

When this changes because of circumstance, we're dealing with this as well. And that's what makes recovery sometimes more difficult. And just getting over something. We just can't just bounce back and get over something. We forget what floor we've parked the car on where, you know, we're wondering about what we where we put the keys. Uh oh, they're in the fridge. Why, don't do that. Yeah, we just altered in that chemistry as a reaction to life event. And what is happening? What can we do about that? 

Well, we can cut ourselves some slack and recognise that they are normal things that do occur to us in that chemistry set, and that we care. We care. That's why we have a reaction to things. And isn't that wonderful that we care. And then it's about taking self-care about those things, and helping ourselves to recognise it's good if we're fatigued. Read the signal and as much as we can... to have short rests - power naps, if you like. Not long naps, because that'll interfere with our sleep tonight. And we'll toss and turn, and we'll worry more about how you are. 

Some stretch inside your home, just stretching the body to release some of the adrenaline buildup that's going on us, in with us, and to be able to sit with someone and talk with someone about what it is that has troubled us so much that we have this incredible dip, or that we're not coping with something like grief and trauma that takes longer to return to some sort of solid base, or feeling like we are in recovery mode. The highs and lows of life will always be around us, but it's our presence with that to recognise that something alters in us at those times - something that we can actually offer and not ignore to help us in the process. 

So the way we eat and sleep are the way we hydrate, the way we release the build up of endorphins and adrenaline so that we actually invite those happy chemicals to be back with us, but in a way that is balanced through exercise, stretch. Rest, sleep, restorative processes, balance, food. All of those things will help us. But to enjoy the highs. Do sit with yourself in your grief when it's grief, and allow yourself to grieve. But overall, let's realise that life, yes, life does come with highs and lows, disappointments, celebrations, good news, bad news. And to recognise that we can sit with ourselves and we can make our peace.

52:20 Peter

Mm, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. Now people can contact you if they'd like to consult you - 0418 835 767.

52:29 Pam

Always on that number, Peter. Enjoy your weekend.

52:32 Peter

Everyone enjoys the third week of each month. Contact Pam - 0418 835 767. If there's a topic you'd like Pam to cover, get in touch and Pam will go to work for us.

52:45 Program ID

On the Vision Australia network through your favourite podcast service, on 1197 AM in Adelaide... you're listening to Leisure Link.

52:54 Peter

All really important conference at the moment in Sydney. And to tell us a bit more about it, we've got Doctor Tessa Boyd-Caine, who's the CEO for Australia's National Research Organisation for Women's Safety. Just lovely to meet you. Thanks so much for your time.

53:07 Tessa

Thanks for your interest, Peter. Hello.

53:09 Peter

Now, we're half the week been. I know you've been kind of front and centre. How's it turning out?

53:14 Tessa

Look, it's been a really fantastic week. Mostly because we have focused on children and young people and their experiences of domestic family and sexual violence and what we need to do across services and systems to to support them. But often that work is done about children and young people. And what we've worked really hard to do with this conference is to centre advice, guidance, support and expertise from children and young people in the design of the conference and right across the programme, as well as in participants in the audience. 

And, you know, we've all got work to we've got to learn how to do that better. But I think we've done that really well, and we've had really great feedback from the children and young people who've been part of this program.

54:00 Peter

That's really great to hear, because sometimes people can kind of be invited or encouraged, but then they've got to kind of meet the other side of the bargain, if you like.

54:06 Tessa

Well, you know, Peter, I often think about that, you know, kind of refrain or motto, Nothing about us without us. And of course, disability advocates have been at the forefront of helping people understand what that means and what that requires. And I hold that as a really important principle. So, you know, I think organisations like mine, we have got to keep learning. We've got to keep evolving. I don't think we get it right all the time. But I think we came into this conference with a really strong commitment to centre that expertise of children and young people, because that was the topic. 

And I think we've, you know, we've made some really important inroads. We've shared the stage, we've given the mike, we've handed over the design, and then we've really encouraged our audience to to learn, to listen, and then to think about how we act on what we've been hearing.

54:53 Peter

I mean, even things like the Royal Commission for Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disabilities. The... one into Aged Care. I mean, it takes a firm or... not a fair amount, it takes an enormous amount of courage for people to speak up. I mean, they can experience this wrong, but to speak up about it is a whole different ball game.

55:12 Tessa

That's so true, Peter. And look, before I kind of go on to respond to your point, we should acknowledge, you know, this work is about domestic family and sexual violence. And so you can't have those conversations and you can't do that work without being exposed to traumatic material. And so just to warn, you know, your listeners that that's the conversation we're having now. And we've brought a really strong lens around the impact of trauma to the conference. 

But, you know, one of the things that we know is that people with disability are often particularly vulnerable to gendered violence. We know that children with disability within families are often particularly targeted within a domestic or family violence context, and we've got to be able to understand what that looks like. We've got to be able to hear from people with disabilities, as we do from anyone about their experience, and then we have to make sure that our services, our policies, our system responses can really understand that experience and make sure that our responses are fit for purpose. 

And there's a big attitude piece here as well. You know, we've got some really good progress across the country in terms of understanding that domestic family and sexual violence is a problem, but we've still got some really big gaps in terms of the work it's going to take from all of us to be part of the solution.

56:27 Peter

As you said, it's a difficult conversation but important. Can you kind of, without obviously getting too explicit, can you kind of explain what you're talking about? I mean, is it literally physical? Is it also things like social media? Can you kind of explain what what your sort of focus is?

56:43 Tessa

Yeah. So well let let me use some of the words and the language that we've heard from an incredible group of experts, including children and young people, over the past two days. So the first thing we know is that people think about violence as physical. And yet the evidence is really clear that when we're talking about domestic and family violence, particularly, we are also talking about, yes, we are talking about physical violence. We are talking about sexual violence. We're also talking about emotional violence. We can be talking about financial abuse. 

And there's this language that's really come to the fore in recent years about coercive control. And so coercive control is a really good example of a form of abuse, of abuse that is present in most almost all experiences of domestic or family violence. But it's about the way control is exerted. And so that can be a form of emotional abuse. It can be a form of systems abuse. You know, control can be exerted over people's access to income support and child support payments to carers payments, and so coercive control reflects the way people using violence exert control, not only physical violence across the people that they are victimising, the people who are often surviving that violence.

58:03 Peter

It's almost a form of blackmail.

58:04 Tessa

Well, yeah, I mean, for some people that is absolutely what it is. But for other people it can be really insidious. So, you know, we've got this growing... attention on technology facilitated abuse, a recognition that lots of... software and... you know, programs that are being used to put people under surveillance. And, you know, sometimes we opt into those programs that become abusive. So we know that for young people, they really like to use social media and other apps that help them keep in touch with where their friends are, that help them show up to where their friends might be without necessarily having a formal plan. 

And so they're using social media and other apps to to keep track of each other. But those apps can also be weaponised. They can also be used by people using violence as a way to survey in really inappropriate and really abusive ways. So you know what? What we've actually been talking about at the conference is that these are really complex experiences, and that they often look very different depending on your context. They look very different depending on cultural context, whether you live in regional and rural communities compared to metropolitan communities. It looks different for a 12 year old to a 22 year old. But our services and our systems don't necessarily know how to reflect that difference in our responses, and that's the work ahead.

59:27 Peter

I guess that's kind of a cool thing, if you like the fact that we haven't got all the answers, but we're here to listen and hopefully act.

59:33 Tessa

Yeah. Look, you know, do we have all the answers? I mean, you know, I run a research organization, so it might sound counterintuitive for me to be saying, I don't think we need more research. What we've been doing at NROWS is really bringing all of the research together in in one place. So we have synthesised evidence over years, and we have brought that together in one publication that we've called in their own right, and that is looking at actions to improve children and young people's safety from domestic family and sexual violence. So there is a one stop shop, if you like, that brings together all of the findings across many pieces of research. 

But the next step is to make that really actionable. And that's, you know, the name of our conference has been Listen, Learn, Act. And, you know, research that just sits on the shelf is not good for anyone. But we don't always write our research in ways that make it really easy to implement, really easy to act on. So that's really been our focus of this conference that we're making sure that we've got practical, tangible directions that can be taken by people writing policy, by people working in services, and by the broad community in terms of how our attitudes and our behaviours can be protected, can make sure that we we are preventing this violence in... our everyday lives.

1:00:55 Peter

That's such a great point, isn't it? Because you say there's no shortage of reports around the place, but whether people can read them and kind of nut out what the you know, what the important stuff from it is... a whole new ball game.

1:01:08 Tessa

And that's really core to our own work as as the National Research Organisation for Women's Safety, we've been really entrusted with developing a quality and a rigorous evidence base, and we've done phenomenal work where 12 years old and the research landscape in this country has changed massively over the past decade, and we've played a role in that. But we're not the only one. There's lots of great research happening right across the country. Some of it's community-led. Some of it is, you know, using approaches like action research that really centers our lived experience and other forms of experience. Lots of work happening in university and other environments. 

So I think we've seen a real, really important and really necessary growth in the evidence base about domestic family and sexual violence. But yeah, exactly. To your point, Peter, we've got to make sure that that evidence points directions that enable systems change. And by systems change, we're talking about the service environment. And in the service environment we know there are specialist services that work on domestic family and sexual violence every day. 

But we also know that people seek help from the places that they have trust. So we've got to make sure that our health services know how to ask, are you safe at home? We've got to make sure that our early childhood and our education settings know how to look out for children's and young people's safety, and know how to work with those children and young people if there's concerns about what's happening at home or in their relationships. So we've got to be thinking about that's what we mean when we talk about a system that we're bringing together all of these different services and different approaches in a coordinated way so that we're all working towards the same outcome, which ultimately is to end gender-based violence.

1:02:55 Peter

Listening to Leisure Link on Vision Australia Radio - 1197 AM in Adelaide and across the Vision Australia Radio network. And we're speaking to Dr Tessa Boyd-Caine. Tessa, some of the stats that... you've put out in your media release, I mean, having younger people in, you know, in my family, if you like, in my circle of people, I know that is quite scary, isn't it, to go through some of those.

1:03:17 Tessa

Yeah. And look, let me start with, you know, one of the things that I think is just really devastating, actually to see in very recent research, we're seeing very high rates of intimate partner violence in the relationships that young people are having. So, you know, one study that's just been published looked at 16 to 24 year olds - and almost half, almost 50% of those relationships had, people in those relationships had experienced violence with their intimate partners. So that is a shockingly high level of violence. And we have to really, you know, it just is such a clear indicator that children and young people are direct victims and survivors of this violence. 

And why it matters that we recognise that is because for a very long time, we've thought about children as witnesses to adult violence, particularly in the context of violence in families. But the evidence is really clear that children and young people are experiencing this violence directly, and we have to ensure that our responses are reflective of their needs, as well as the needs of the mostly women who experience domestic and family violence, and the work with the mostly men who are using that violence to make sure that they are, you know, that we're working with them to stop using that violence. 

So so, yeah, I mean, your question was, you know, how bad is it? And it's pretty bad. But one of the things that we've been working really hard to do in this conference is remember that there are bright spots. You know, there are areas where we're making progress - and we have to maintain the hope because we all have to play a role in ending this violence. And so one of the things that gives me real hope is... in the attitude shifts that we're seeing in younger generations. 

You know, one of one of Andrew's roles is to run the National Community Attitudes Survey, and that's the study that helps us track broadly across the Australian population. What are our attitudes to domestic family and sexual violence? And in that work, we are seeing that young people are really leading the way in a broad understanding about what domestic family and sexual violence looks like, that it's not okay that relationships where that is a feature are not safe. Healthy and strong relationships. And you know, those attitudes play a really important role in... enabling violent behaviours. And so if we want to end domestic family and sexual violence in a generation, seeing those attitudes shift with young and emerging generations is a really important part of the progress that we need.

1:05:54 Peter

You talked about being around for 12 years and generational shift, I guess, you know, in that 12 years, things like social media and the... internet and the interconnectivity, if you like, has sort of come so much to the fore. So I was going to say, have things got worse in that time? But I guess maybe can't compare apples with apples, as in today compared compared to 12 years ago.

1:06:14 Tessa

Oh look, I think that's such an important insight, Peter. I think we would love to be able to do a very kind of from-then-till-now analysis. But you're right, that's actually a really complex question to ask. And I think about this often. You know, we think about technology-facilitated abuse - we were talking about that a few moments ago. We know that as technology evolves, so too people find ways to use technology to use violence. But at the same time, the shifts, the evolution in technology is creating incredible ways for people to stay connected, for people to get information, for people to understand experiences that they might not hold themselves but that they can learn from. So that's a really, like, right. There is an example of what we mean when we say this is complex - because it's not good or bad, it's about how we use it. 

And so these, you know, these idea about safety by design, this idea about bringing safety into apps that might be ways to stay connected, helping children and young people learn about the dangers of surveillance, use those apps with, you know, really good knowledge about how to maintain their own safety. That's actually the pathway ahead. And, you know, we know history has told us many times over - we might want to use prohibition, we might want to ban things that we think are bad, but that often fails. Often that's not a good way of addressing a problem, and much better that we are listening and learning from children and young people about why they like social media, what apps they're using and how they're using them. And then we give them the skills and the power to use that safely.

1:07:54 Peter

So we could chat for hours. I could listen to you for hours. What about then, from here on in? The conference wraps up, you have a kind of a take home message. What's kind of the next step, then?

1:08:04 Tessa

Yeah. Look, you know, I said we called this conference Listen, Learn, Act. And the work ahead is how do we act on what we've heard. So we want actionable strategies that shift systems and services which are currently fragmented. We want them to be integrated. We want them to be accessible and we want them to be effective. And that means effective for who? And so making sure that as we're thinking about that, we're including children's and young people's expertise. That's our first call. 

Our second call is that we see huge scope for collaboration across sectors, systems and different forms of experience. And so making sure that, you know, we're thinking about these as complex problems that need collaborative solutions. And then the third thing is that we're really equipping practitioners in our services, policy makers and the community generally with the knowledge and the skills we all need to respond safely and appropriately to domestic family and sexual violence among children and young people.

1:09:02 Peter

Such a powerful point you made regarding service providers and people feeling confident and comfortable to, you know, to go to them and get information or get the support they need. I mean, you know that you don't want to be betrayed twice.

1:09:16 Tessa

Exactly, exactly. We need to make sure that we're focused on safety, and we're focused on support and healing, and that we can all play a role in that, whether that's in our, you know, relationships at home with our families, friends and neighbours, whether it's what we can do at work or in our community involvement, as well as how we hold our governments to account to make sure that we're all part of that change.

1:09:37 Peter

Now you've got a website where people can get some more information from. I had a quick look at it before coming to air with you, Tessa, and it looks pretty accessible, so congratulations on that.

1:09:45 Tessa

Oh thanks, Peter. Look again. You know, there's always work to do, but we try. So thank you I really appreciate that. So yeah, you can find out more about us at... [?]

1:09:58 Peter

That's it's been a privilege talking to you. Keep up the great work. And I'd really love to be able to speak to you again in the future. That's been most enlightening. And... well, certainly with the job that's ahead of you, I think it's in very good hands.

1:10:10 Tessa

Thanks so much, Peter. Great talking to you.

1:10:12 Peter

That's Dr Tessa Boyd-Caine from the Australian National Research Organisation for Women's Safety. Their conference on at the moment - we'll put some details about that up with our show notes. 

I'm really delighted to welcome to the program, Professor Linda Maleshkin from the Peter MacCallum Cancer Institute. Linda, my colleague, Doctor, thanks so much for your time and appreciate you speaking to us.

1:10:34 Linda

It's a pleasure.

1:10:35 Peter

Now you've got some really interesting and seemingly maybe pretty good news regarding... those that may be suffering from endometrial cancer.

1:10:43 Linda

Yes. That's right. Over the last few years, we've seen more information come to light about the potential benefits of immunotherapy treatment for women diagnosed with advanced endometrial cancer, in addition to our standard treatment of chemotherapy.

1:10:57 Peter

Now, maybe we could start with endometrial cancer. I believe it's... one of the most common in terms of reproductive cancers. And sadly... the prognosis isn't all that great.

1:11:08 Linda

Well, it's variable, definitely correct that it's the most common of the gynecological cancers, although probably people hear more about other cancer types like ovarian cancer and cervical cancer. But cervical cancers, you know, one of the cancers we hope might even be eliminated in the future with screening and vaccination. But unfortunately, endometrial cancer is one of the cancers that seems to be rising in incidence around the world. And yes, is the most common gynaecological cancer.

1:11:37 Peter

And what about in terms of its diagnosis? Is that a little bit kind of tricky, if I can use a non-medical term?

1:11:43 Linda

It can be tricky in some cases. So the common symptoms that people present with might include abnormal vaginal bleeding or abnormal menstruation. People may also sometimes have some pain in their pelvis or vaginal discharge or some urinary symptoms. And unfortunately these kind of symptoms are common in women. So there may be challenges with women not going to the doctor. And there may also be challenges with getting the diagnosis made because the patient needs to be referred to see a specialist gynecologist to have sampling of the endometrium taken to make the diagnosis.

1:12:21 Peter

Yes, well, we all know how hard it is to get into get into all sorts of specialists these days. So I kind of get what you're saying. And, you know, with something like this, time is of the essence.

1:12:30 Linda

Yes. The earlier we... are able to diagnose women, the better - because if the cancer is actually diagnosed at an early stage, the outcomes are very good. So in around 80% of cases, or four out of five women, they will be diagnosed with early cancer, that might be completely curable with a hysterectomy. But if women present with more advanced disease, then... cure is not always possible.

1:12:53 Peter

We'll talk about the good news from the TGA shortly. But what about in terms of... the kind of... causes or some of the things that might lessen your chance of getting it?

1:13:03 Linda

Yeah. So we seem to have seen a rise in incidents, particularly in so-called developed countries, in association with perhaps some of our poor lifestyle factors. So it definitely gets more common in... people who are overweight or obese or who have a sedentary lifestyle. It's also more common in women who've had exposure to estrogen in their body for a long time. So people who have periods for a very long time and maybe never have any children. And it's also... more common in people who get older. And there's a small... percentage, but it's not very common of people who have a familial risk or something in their own genes that predisposes them to get endometrial cancer in association with a condition called Lynch Syndrome.

1:13:51 Peter

It's going to ask you about the sort of familial connection as well, and any particular age that women are most vulnerable at. Or is that not the case?

1:14:01 Linda

So the most common age to be diagnosed is somewhere in the mid 60s, but unfortunately we are seeing... increasing rates of diagnosis in women at a younger age. And we also see more common diagnosis in people, maybe from disadvantaged communities both here and overseas, where perhaps getting access to healthcare is also more difficult.

1:14:23 Peter

Now, what about as far as... the news in the last little while regarding some approval from the TGA? Do you want to kind of explain what that is and how that might impact on treatment going forward?

1:14:34 Linda

Yes. So in the 20% of women who may develop advanced or endometrial cancer that spread to other areas of the body, our standard treatment for many years has been to give chemotherapy treatment. And while that can quite often shrink cancers, it's never something that results in very long survival rates. And recently, it's been recognised that combining immunotherapy with chemotherapy seems to significantly improve those outcomes. And currently we have access on the PBS to the immunotherapy part of the treatment just for a small subset of women, 20 to 30% who have a particular characteristic of their tumor that makes them more likely to respond to endometrial cancer. 

But the good news is that the TGA has now approved listing of the drug for all women with endometrial cancer. So... hopefully if we get to the point of getting the drug approved by the PBS subsequently, then it will be available to all women with endometrial cancer.

1:15:39 Peter

They want to get people like you on, experts. It's really fantastic. And one of the questions I often ask is, Would the sort of conventional GP be aware of news like this? And obviously it would be okay if a patient goes to a doctor and said, Look, I heard about this on the radio or read in the paper or whatever, could I qualify? Do you want to comment on that in terms of... I guess, the awareness of news like this?

1:16:01 Linda

I think our... hard-working GPS have a lot to stay on top of.

1:16:05 Peter

Definitely I won't be criticising them. In fact, I empathise with them very much.

1:16:10 Linda

Yeah, they know they have a lot to keep on top of. And... I know that they do have educational programs and material that help them to get up to date. I think now immunotherapies become much more common in treatment of many cancers. Probably most GPs are familiar with it, but they might necessarily not know the level of detail about a drug like this being listed on the TGA. So that's why these women need to be seen by specialist medical oncologists so that we can discuss options with them.

1:16:41 Peter

We've heard a lot about immunotherapy. In more general terms, do you want to kind of explain what that is? And then maybe in particular how this applies to endometrial cancer and the news that you're talking about today?

1:16:51 S11

Yeah. So immunotherapy has really revolutionised the treatment of many different types of cancer. The poster child has probably been melanoma. What happens normally is that cancers, when they grow in the body, have found a way to disguise themselves from the body's own immune system so that our normal immune system cells don't attack and fight the cancer. But some clever scientists over the years have developed this, these new antibody treatments that basically unlock that process and allow the body's own immune system to recognise a cancer cell as being abnormal and give it a signal to attack and hopefully try to kill that cancer. 

In some cancer types, we can use that treatment by itself, such as in melanoma. But in other types of cancers, combining immunotherapy with chemotherapy seems to give a greater benefit. So in this study that involved dostarlimab - or Jemperli is the brand name of this new immunotherapy. It did cause a significant benefit to give chemo plus immunotherapy. And on average, women who had the combination lived about 16 months longer than those who had our standard chemotherapy treatment.

1:18:02 Peter

And that unlocking that you talk about, I'm assuming that kind of key, if you like, is different for, say, endometrial cancer compared to melanoma. Like it's not just one, not one key unlocks all the the benefits. If you like, you've got a kind of crystallise the relevant bits... that'll work for the different cancers.

1:18:21 Linda

Well, actually many of the many cancers are now responding to the first line immunotherapy treatments that particularly target the so-called PD-1 and PD-11 Axis, but not all cancers do. You're absolutely right about that. And so now there's all sorts of new immunotherapy drugs in development trying to unlock different keys as you've described. So I'm hopeful in the future that there'll be more options for people. And ideally we would like to spare patients being given toxic treatments like chemotherapy because immunotherapy is usually much more tolerable.

1:18:57 Peter

And sounding like it's maybe more or, you know, a very effective as well in the right sort of settings.

1:19:03 Linda

Yes, definitely. It's not to say that it's not without side effects. Unfortunately, all of our cancer treatments do have side effects. So it's really important that we discuss these with patients so they can make an informed decision about trying any type of treatment.

1:19:16 Peter

And I think something like 3000 cases are diagnosed every year, which is, you know, kind of when you boil that down, it's about ten a day, which kind of hits home pretty hard. What about in terms of research? Because often we hear that the less well known cancers are the ones that struggle to get funding for research. How does this compare?

1:19:35 Linda

Yeah, that's definitely the case for endometrial cancer and indeed for gynecological cancers in general. Generally, there's been less research opportunities for us to get funding for endometrial cancer. And so we've been really trying to raise the profile of endometrial cancer. We have an Australian and New Zealand group called ANZCOG or the Australian New Zealand Gynaecological Oncology Group... who's trying to drive more research in endometrial cancer and gyno cancer in general. And they've actually recently put a submission to government trying to trying to get more funding for gynecological cancers.

1:20:15 Peter

I guess you won't see what the result of that submission is.

1:20:19 Linda

Yeah, I think one of the challenges, though, is for some reason, which I don't quite understand, there's not really the same type of support and advocacy organisations, say for endometrial cancer, as exists for something like breast cancer. And obviously, you know, breast cancer advocates have been a really powerful voice to get more funding and more drug approvals for breast cancer. And I'm not entirely sure why the same hasn't happened with endometrial cancer. I think it's possibly because it's, you know, a cancer of older women and involving, you know, reproductive parts. Maybe there's a bit of stigma and women think they should just have the hysterectomy and get on with life. But also I hope that will change in the future, for sure.

1:21:02 Peter

The question obviously coming for [?] - and maybe I might be way off track... does endometriosis play any role in endometrial [?Demetrius] cancer?

1:21:10 Linda

Not in the most common type of endometrial cancer, but it does increase the risk of a rare subtype called clear cell. And also other sort of gynecological conditions, such as polycystic ovarian syndrome, do increase the risk of endometrial cancer.

1:21:27 Peter

There's been a bit of breakthrough in recent months, hasn't there, regarding endometriosis, hasn't there, I think?

1:21:31 Linda

Yeah, I think there have been some new treatment options coming to that. As a medical oncologist, I'm not so much involved with that, but I was delighted to see because I certainly see patients who've, you know, suffered a long time with symptoms of endometriosis and maybe also not been diagnosed for many years.

1:21:48 Peter

There at the Peter MacCallum centre, that's where you work... it's got a wonderful reputation. I know, for example, some of the football rounds, for example, dedicate a lot of time and money and awareness of... an organisation like that. I guess things like that kind of help in terms of awareness. And it kind of doesn't matter what kind of cancer you're fighting, but just to have the name out there [?]  is good for the general public, to make them aware.

1:22:10 Linda

Yes, absolutely. We're very lucky in in Melbourne to have this wonderful, dedicated, comprehensive cancer centre. You know, in Parkville, right in the middle of a whole lot of academic and research institutions, such as the University of Melbourne and, you know, co-located with other hospitals like the Royal Melbourne Hospital and the Royal Women's Hospital. So, yeah, we're very lucky to have the Peter Mac, and it gives us a lot of opportunities to run world leading research and clinical trials to try and improve the outcomes for all sorts of different cancers.

1:22:45 Peter

And getting back to the purpose of today's interview, if people did want to find out more, the name of the the generic name is Jemperli. Is that right?

1:22:54 Linda

Generic name is Jemperli, [spells it]. And... you would be able to see if you looked on the PBS website that it is already approved for some women with endometrial cancer. And, yeah, we really hope to get approval for all women funded by the PBS sometime later in the year.

1:23:13 Peter

But it's been great. It's been most enlightening. Thank you so much for sparing me the time for us.

1:23:17 Linda

It's a pleasure. Thank you.

1:23:19 Peter

It's wonderful, isn't it? That's Professor Linda Maleshkin from the Peter MacCallum Institute. Talking about endometrial cancer and some good news - hopefully even more good news on the way. 

Some [?] notes to the show. You may have caught up with the news very late last week that there might be some changes to access taxis in South Australia. We'll get someone to talk about it next week. I think those changes come in on Monday, so we'll give people a chance to kind of digest and see how the land lies. But all being well, talking more about that next week, it's certainly been a problem. That's been an issue for many, many people for many, many years here in South Australia, probably Australia-wide. You may have caught up with the news during the week where a mother with a young child with a disability couldn't get hospital on time because access cabs didn't turn up. So there's been some reaction from the government. We'll see what the reaction to the reaction is on the program next week. 

Thinking about next week... of course, next week is National Volunteer Week. So to all the volunteers, many of them involved with this program, many on this program as guests, that all this program has guests... no-one's get paid a cent on this program... so for all the volunteers, for all the wonderful work you do throughout the year, it's great that this week recognises you. Thank you, may you long continue. Speak about next week also. All being well will hopefully catch up with Neville Horton, our finance guru. Couldn't synchronise our clocks and watches with Neville this week. But all being well, Neville back on the program next week. I know he's very, very popular. So if you hang out for Neville, seven more days and we'll get Neville on.

Club Call on tomorrow at the Gov. A regular occurrence the third Sunday of each month at the Governor Hindmarsh Hotel. It gets underway about 10:30 in the morning. Doors open through to about 2:30. They've got three live bands tomorrow, so certainly well worth getting along. So they've got live bands. So music, great food, wonderful entertainment. You can dance, you can sing along, even get on stage. Some people do. So it should be a great day tomorrow at the Gov if you want more details. Speaking of volunteers, that organisation Club Cool very much run on the basis of volunteers. Give Andrew Kyprianou a call 0408 848 649... 0408 848 649 to contact Andrew Kyprianou if you want to get involved with the Club Cool. But if you want to just rock up tomorrow for about 10:30 till about 2:30, you are very, very cordially invited. 

A couple of quotes before we go. Rebecca said the quote - you may hear Rebecca on Focal Point on a regular basis - Rebecca has said to quote through, Rebecca says... You can't use up creativity because the more you use, the more you have. So Rebecca, thank you very much for that. 

And on the back of the appointment of Mark Butler to all those ministries chatting to gender, the greatest taxi driver in the world during the week, he made an interesting point. He said over the next 30 years or so, the percentage of people in Australia over 65 will double. The percentage of people over 85 will treble. [?Sagenda] was making the point that, looks like young people like him are going to have to work a little bit longer to make sure that people like us maybe do have the services. We require a lot more emphasis on the younger taxpayers. I'm sure that'll be the case. 

So if you want to send a quote through [08] 8234 1197 during business hours, and I often say we'll put information up on our show notes regarding interviews that we do. If you don't have access or don't choose to have access to the show notes, please always feel free to give us a call here at the radio station. [08] 8234 1197 during business hours in Adelaide. Or you can always call Vision Australia. They'll get back to you if you leave a message. [number]. 

Some birthdays before we go - a couple of fine basketballers or one current one past. We say a very happy birthday to Georgia Munro-Cook, member of the Gliders. So George having a birthday - so past glider and also past Paralympic sailing gold medallist Liesl Tesch having a birthday. Speaking of politicians, Lisa, the member for Gosford in New South Wales. So happy birthday to you Lisa. Scott Crowley, wonderful basketballer himself having a birthday and now doing some tremendous amount of work in the area of advocacy. A big happy birthday to you too, Scott. And we also say happy birthday to Riley, back and wheelchair rugby champion, largely regarded as the best wheelchair player of rugby in the world. So a happy birthday to you. And also happy birthday to Evie Wilson, one of the fine orientation and mobility people around Australia. Happy birthday to you, Evie. Speak about mobility. 

A bit of a glimpse into the future on Focal Point this Wednesday night with an interview regarding mobility. I think I've had enough, I've said enough. You've had enough. We've got to go. Vicki Cousins is standing by with Australian Geographic. Don't touch that dial because Vicki is worth listening to. Sam Rickard, thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. Reminding you that Leslie is available on that favorite podcast platform of yours. Please tell your friends about the show. Be kind to yourselves, be thoughtful, and look out for others. All being well. Leisure Link back at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network. This is Leisure Link.