Guide dogs, guts, sports and coming events

00:16 Peter

It's just gone 5:00 - and depending on when and where you're listening, have you voted yet? If you're sick of hearing the elections and about the elections, you've come to the right place. Peter Greco saying, great to be here.... on Radio 1197 AM in Adelaide, online at VA radio, VA Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin, through the Community Radio Plus app - look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide. Also our friends listening through 103.9 Hope FM in Esperance in Western Australia. More friends through Disability Media Australia supporting us as well. You can catch us on that particular website Powerd Media... and also through Print Radio in Tasmania, people listening there as well. I'll mention a bit more about that before we wrap up. 

Glad to be here. This program come to you from Kaurna land. Rather than elections, we're going to talk about Goalball with Brittnee Watson. We're going to talk about Netball with Paul Beinke. We'll catch up with Aaron Chia from Guide Dogs SA-NT - International Guide Dog Day during the week. How did that go? David Mitchell will continue talking about Candida... and some interesting breakthroughs in the treatment of that. We'll also catch up with Belinda Hellyer from Brewed by Belinda, the Brew that is True - talking about flowers or florals or petals that can be used with tea or in tea look. 

Also catch up with Martin Stewart from Blind Citizens Australia - they're celebrating 50 years. You'll be invited to their conference coming up in June... also having a look back over advocacy over some of that time. And Kathryn Carey will join us from WorkAbility. This is a great event. It was happening in Adelaide during the week, but also moving to Newcastle next week, so you'll be able to attend that if you're in Newcastle or Hunter area. 

Brittnee Watson is vice president of the Goalball Victoria. Brittnee is on the line. Brittnee, good to catch up.

02:22 Brittnee

Nice to catch up with you too, Peter.

02:24 Peter

Now you've got some very exciting news. You're off overseas very shortly.

02:28 Brittnee

Yes... in two weeks, I'm flying out with the Australian goalball team to compete in Finland before they go on to Sweden. So there's a selection of six that goes through to Sweden, which is a sanctioned event. So to get points up to head to the Paralympics, and I've been lucky enough to make the top eight, which are going to a club tournament in Finland beforehand.

02:54 Peter

Okay, well don't be modest, Brittnee. You've made it though.... or lucky is not the word.  Now tell me, what is the word, though... you're a bit of an overnight sensation, aren't you? You've only recently come to the sport.

03:04 Brittnee

Yeah... it honestly does feel like it's been overnight. I always explain it... I've been playing for a hot minute, and... yeah, I started... roughly around this time last year, actually. So I've been... watching my partner play goalball for the last two years. And then I thought, Oh, I should give it a go. Like, let's just see how it goes. I basically fell in love with the first... trap of the ball. I did an international tournament with Victoria in New Zealand, played in two state titles, one in Victoria, one in New South Wales, and then got to represent Victoria... at the AGC... which is where I got noticed by the Australian goalball team.

03:45 Peter

Now, when you really love something, sometimes it's hard to kind of put it into words as to why you like it, why you love playing. Can you do that with goalball? Is it just one of those things?

03:54 Brittnee

Yeah... definitely. I think, not being bubble-wrapped is probably the best way I describe it. When you're out and about in the community, I find... everybody is very cautious of you walking around. And be careful of this. Be careful of that. Don't run off the train tracks or just anything silly that they like to kind of bubble-wrap you in. And then you put some eyeshades on and you jump on the goalball court and you throw yourself in front of, you know, this 1.25 kilo ball coming at you and you dive on the floor, you can run around, you can have all the fun that you want without anybody, like being fearful of your life.

04:35 Peter

That's a fascinating insight. And I guess some people would have... I've been able to identify that, doesn't think that's the kind of a new way of looking at it.

04:43 Brittnee

Yeah, I think... a lot of the other sports as well, which are all very fun, as well, being adapted... you always get that air of like, Oh, it's so good they let you play - but in goalball it's very much... No, this is our sport. Like, you come into our world and let's be rough and tumble.

05:01 Peter

Yeah. And,  you know, I think we've all got a bit of that in us that, you know, we all like to rough and tumble. I mean, I guess in a sense it takes us back to where we were really little.

05:11 Brittnee

Yeah. Exactly right... there's nothing more freeing than being able to, you know... not that I do backflips, but, you know, to roll around on the floor to... be active and keep that fitness up - and again, in a safe environment as well.

05:25 Peter

It's interesting sport, isn't it, because as you said, you put on the shades. So, I mean, obviously we speak about the different categories of... blindness and blind sport. B1, B2, B3, etcetera. With goalball, there's no such thing in a sense. There's anything... like you're all in the same boat.

05:40 Brittnee

Yeah... I'm deaf, we're all blackout... I hated...  so your category doesn't really mean anything. It's one of those benefits that I really enjoy. We've got a couple, like father-son, high in goalball at the moment. So, you know, the dads... are sighted, so they can see fully and then the visually impaired, but they get to play together - like they get to, you know, like the old days of throwing the ball back and forth. But, you know, instead of catch, it's block - and, you know, it brings everybody to, you know, our game. 

So there's no need to be like, Oh, be careful of, you know, throwing it at their face or be careful of, you know, this. It's Come on, let's all play together. Let's all be blindfolded and you get to interact with, like, family and play those games that you may've thought that you never would have been able to.

06:27 Peter

Sporting cliche, but it's kind of a level playing field.

06:30 Brittnee

Yes, yes, we all love a cliche. That definitely is one. So I always find, especially... in a lot of other sports as well, the B1 category, they tend to be left out, but in this one it's always like, No, no, I want the B1 on my team, because they're tracking skills are amazing. They never let the ball past.

06:51 Peter

What about along those lines then in terms of, what that kind of thing is done for you in terms of... being able to listen better? I mean, I'm sure your hearing is probably exactly the same as it was two years ago. If you measured it on a Richter scale, if you like. But I guess your ability to listen better is probably improved.

07:06 Brittnee

Yeah... you definitely get to fine-tune... your hearing. So I lost my sight when I was 22, so about ten years ago. And I always found it really funny that we never have, we never had, like, a rehabilitation. It was always, you know... you find out you're losing your eyesight or you lose your eyesight. They say, you know, go to Vision Australia, and Vision Australia's... like, you know, We'll give, you know, we'll give you an OT. But there's no like, rehabilitation services. So finding goalball, which was designed for rehabilitation of World War 2 veterans, I found it really good because it forced me to use my hearing - instead of, you know, trying to pretend.

07:48 Peter

Yeah, that's a great point. And... the the trip coming up... what are you most looking forward to? I mean, I guess, yeah, that's part of the great thing about playing sport. I mean, you talked about New Zealand as well. Like you're playing, you get fitter, you make make friends, etc. that social interaction and that sort of lived experience that you can share. But you've also got chances like travelling.

08:08 Brittnee

Yeah... definitely. And it's always really amazing to meet, like different... people that are blind or low vision, across the pond and in different locations - you know, to see what life is like, you know, for them outside of, you know, our bubble in Australia. So I'm very excited to meet more people, to get more stories, to find out, you know, just more about the world in the blind and low vision aspect.

08:33 Peter

You talked about the Belles often. And in fact, I think every time I speak to a Belle, I say, that's the best named sporting team in the universe. The Belles That's such a cool name, that double entendre. Of course we have this in Australia represented, or being represented at Paralympic Games. And this kind of trip coming up is maybe the first step to hopefully 2028.

08:54 Brittnee

Yes. Yes, definitely. That is a, this is all a stepping stone to LA Paralympics in... 2028 - hopefully, young enough and fit enough by the time. But we also are guaranteed a spot in the 2032 Paralympic Games. Yeah.

09:11 Peter

Good point.

09:12 Brittnee

Yeah. So... all of this is very much in lead to those Paralympic Games... in Brisbane. So, you know, I gotta keep up with the squats and the burpees and make sure enough... to... keep the team going.

09:27 Peter

Brittnee, I'm not great at maths, but you said you lost your sight at 22. Ten years ago. You're still very, very young. Believe you me, you've got plenty of years ahead of you.

09:35 Brittnee

Yeah. What's... the eight years on top of what I am now?

09:38 Peter

It's nothing.

09:39 Brittnee

Nothing - nothing at all.

09:40 Peter

10%. Always a little bit more.

09:42 Brittnee

Yeah.

09:43 Peter

I bet you... we talked about the Belles. And obviously we wish them well. And we'll keep across the results in the next few weeks. But the men, the Australian goalball team, they're just back from a pretty successful time overseas as well.

09:53 Brittnee

Yes. No, definitely they are. So my partner, Dan Pritchard, he is part of the Aussie Storm - so that's the Australian men's goalball team. They had a sanctioned competition in Berlin. So that goes to points... for them towards the Paralympics. They came out with a bronze medal. So they came in as the underdogs, definitely. So if anyone goes back and listens, you can hear the commentary... being very surprised.

10:23 Peter

Mm, okay.

10:25 Brittnee

How well they played... and it was in one of the competitions they beat Brazil - who is the world number one. They... came out, you know, with very, very good defensive... skills in goalball, and they beat the world's number one. So they're definitely doing something right. And then they had another competition in Lithuania and they came out with a bronze medal again. So they've come home with two bronzes.

10:52 Peter

So with those two countries, pretty much in Europe, Germany and Lithuania, they're very big with gold. Well, after we talked about Brazil being number one. So I guess it is a worldwide sport in terms of the countries that do well at it.

11:03 Brittnee

Oh, definitely. I think Europe, being so close together, they definitely have a great advantage of being able to play. So even in Finland, when we're going, we're playing club tournament. So this is basically like New South Wales versus Victoria, but it's Brazil versus Germany because, well, they're basically that close anyway.

11:24 Peter

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It's a very good point. And what about... just going back to your trip to New Zealand, what's goalball like in New Zealand? Because they're a close neighbour and are, in some sports they excel as far as the sort of Paralympic level goes - for example, wheelchair rugby. What's their standard of goalball like?

11:41 Britnee

So their standard, so their their elite team that they have, is very very powerful. They're very very tall and wide plays that they have.

11:52 Peter

I'll show you how to find that, call them what...

11:55 Brittnee

They are, but in a very, very good way.

11:57 Peter

Athletic-wise.

11:58 Brittnee

In a very athletic way. That makes it very hard to bounce the ball over the top of 'em... but I definitely find, they're developing at the moment. So when we go over, we go over as... Victoria, and we go over as the youth to, you know, develop our younger members, our newer members, to give them that taste of international competition and then also help New Zealand with their development as well. They actually for the first - I believe it is for the first time, don't quote me on it - but they sent an elite team in the women's and men's division to our Australian Goalball Championships last year.

12:36 Peter

Fantastic. Well, for people listening who think goalball... yeah, I mean, can you kind of sum it up in a few words as to how to play the game? And then we'll let people know if they want to maybe get involved. Maybe, as you said, if you've got a parent who might have sight and a child with a vision impairment. Yeah. If you slap on the goggles, anyone can play.

12:53 Brittnee

Yeah, definitely. So I guess in a nutshell, we always describe it as reverse dodgeball. We have three on each side. There's nine metres of net, and you basically have three people on the court. You lay on the floor to block the ball coming at you. And then you pick it up and then throw it as hard as you can back... at the other team. So you definitely are, you're active, you're up and down on the floor, and you get some frustration out when you get to throw it as hard as you want.

13:22 Peter

That's a good point, too... and... 1.25 kilo ball, did you say?

13:26 Brittnee

Yessir. The senior ball is 1.25 kilos. So it's quite heavy. So it doesn't come at you as fast as what you think it would. It's not a normal... basketball. And the ball does have bells in it as well. That's, so it's very, very audible.

13:41 Peter

Do you have any protective equipment or clothing?

13:44 Brittnee

Yessir. We're basically just like volleyball. So it's elbow pads and knee pads. And then for women, we have chest protectors and then a box for males... for all obvious reasons. And then as long as you defend with your head back and your arms forward, your face is perfectly fine.

14:01 Peter

And I guess that's part of the technique and the sort of stuff that you learn as you as you play.

14:05 Brittnee

Yeah. It only takes one face hit for you to... remember that you need to put your head back.

14:10 Peter

Keep your head out of it. People, particularly in Victoria - but I guess I know... what, the game is played all around Australia - but if people wanted to find out more, is kind of a central place we can go to get more information?

14:20 Brittnee

Yeah. So... in Victoria, I definitely our website is all up to date with our upcoming events. So just search Victorian Goalball Association. Another way to find out all the information is following Goalball Australia or Victorian Goalball Association on Facebook. And we're constantly updating Goalball's... Australia's constantly sharing... different states as well.

14:42 Peter

Well, Brittany, congratulations on your rise to fame in the last year or so. Let's hope it continues, and we'll certainly keep in touch with the team as they go to Europe. And then also congratulations to the to the men's Storm. Not quite as good a name as the Belles, but still a very good... congratulations to them on their recent performances as well.

15:00 Brittnee

Oh, no worries at all. Thank you Pete.

15:02 Peter

Brittnee Watson there, vice-president of Victorian Goalball - but more importantly, a member of the Belles as they jet off to Europe, hopefully for higher honours. 

Let's find out how the C6 Netball competition is going and speak to one of the long-time participants and coaches, Paul Beinke. Paul, welcome. Great to catch up with you again.

15:22 Paul

Yes, it's going well, thanks. Peter. How are you?

15:25 Peter

I'm going especially well also... so far, the weather's been pretty good for Netballers. I know often during the winter they get pretty crook Saturdays - but so far, so good.

15:33 Paul

Well, funny you say that. We've only played one round and it was... borderline, too hot. Yeah, probably it was too hot, but we... played...  some of the games were only a half and we played three quarters, but it was... yeah. Pretty hot.

15:52 Peter

Unseasonal, as I like to say.

15:54 Paul

Yeah. Well, we don't normally start looking for the heat policy when we're talking winter netball.

15:58 Peter

Oh, these things are set to try us, Paul, you've got to be flexible and agile.

16:02 Paul

Oh, well, yes. I don't know about flexible and agile. It's not really my... forte these days.

16:08 Peter

How's the competition looking in terms of teams and players? How are the kind of numbers stacking up?

16:13 Paul

It is a little bit hard to tell, given we've only yeah, of course one game. But... I'm pretty sure Tango are going to be very hard to beat. They've... got a very solid team again this year. There's been a couple of new coaches with probably with Metro Jets and South Adelaide. So I'm not sure what sort of impact they'll have, but we haven't seen a lot of... the netball so far.

16:37 Peter

And players, I guess the players are pretty keen. I mean, some of the girls have been playing a long time, and I guess you're always looking for new players to join the comp as well.

16:45 Paul

Yeah, they do. They do play for a long time. I think Heather from Newton Jags was saying she's going to play her 400th game probably next year. Not this year. But yeah, she's been around for a long time. And yeah, I know some of the contacts girls have been there for, you know, more than ten years. So they do tend to keep playing - which is good, really good.

17:10 Peter

It's a wonderful... comment on their... ability, on their loyalty. And I just, I guess how much they... love the game.

17:17 Paul

Yeah. They love, they love playing netball. But it's... good socially too for them. It's... you know, some of them don't have a big... social calendar. And netball is certainly an important part of it. So, you know, they get to see people they play with and against and it's a good outing.

17:34 Peter

I know it's obviously, you know, a competition, if you like. And that's really, really important. But you know, we never should lose sight of the other benefits of playing sport just for health and fitness. As you say, that social interaction, I mean that you kind of can't put a price, on something like that.

17:49 Paul

Oh, no. I think it's super important to play sport, and particularly team games. It's, you know, it's how you make a lot of lifetime, lifelong friends.

18:01 Peter

Now, the games are generally on a Saturday afternoon, aren't they?

18:03 Paul

Yeah, always. Well, nearly always Saturday afternoon about 12:45 up at Netball SA. Occasionally we we might have a night game if it's a... if it happens to be inclusive round or something like that. But... I haven't seen anything on the schedule yet for this year.

18:24 Peter

And of course, occasionally if there's an interstate match the Rubies play, then that can sometimes throw the scheduling out a bit as well.

18:31 Paul

Well, it can, because the last two years the Rubies have been in the middle of finals for our competition, so does make it a bit awkward. But you can't... be rushing... Netball Australia into, you know, programming, I guess.

18:48 Peter

Oh, Paul, that's very diplomatic. Yeah. Well, what about in terms of your own... involvement, Paul? I know you're involved with a number of different sports for people with disabilities and have been for a long time. How long have you been... saddling up?

19:01 Paul

I've coached over ten years with with contacts at, you know, in the C6 competition. Yeah. Probably been involved with the basketball more like 15 years, but... yeah. Been around a while. You must love to hang up the boots, I think.

19:18 Peter

Yeah. No, I never, never... I got to drag you out, Paul. I've got to carry you out in a box.

19:23 Paul

No, it gets very cold out there on training nights. I'm not sure about that.

19:28 Peter

Oh, I can appreciate that. Actually, it's a really good point. And I guess, obviously it's great for the girls. We're talking about C6 in particular, great for the girls that they play, but which also, you know, give a very big nod and shout out to the volunteers and all those that are involved to kind of make the games happen, the coaches, the support staff, the umpires, etc.

19:47 Paul

Yeah, look, it's... every sport's the same - you can't play without umpires, coaches. Well, you know, we add a little bit to the game, but I'm sure the girls could manage without us at times. But you, every week you need a coach, a manager, a timer, a scorer. You know, it's not a one person job, that's for sure. You need... a group of people that you know can come out and support the girls each week. Otherwise, it just doesn't... happen.

20:19 Peter

And generally speaking, the the sort of umbrella club if you like, in Contacts or Tangos or... South Adelaide, the sort of generic club can be very welcoming and inclusive as well. It's kind of part of their, you know, sort of social duty, if I can put it that way.

20:34 Paul

Well, or most most of us are linked to a Premier League club. And, you know, we're very much a part of that club. We... expect to be treated very much the same as other teams. And, you know, and they, I know Contacts, you know, does a fabulous job with our girls. And just, you know, I can't really speak for the other clubs, but I know some of them are... very good with, you know, the making it accessible financially... that sort of thing - because it's... well, it's not cheap. And... even, you know, we've got to pay every time you go in the door at Netball SA. So it all adds up - and they, some of the participants come from a long way away. They put in a lot of effort just to get there.

21:26 Peter

And sometimes maybe having to catch a couple of buses etc. to get there.

21:30 Paul

Yeah... I'm not sure about buses so much, but just... arranging rides and...

21:35 Peter

Yeah.

21:36 Paul

You know, and... the car park at Netball SA is quite daunting if you get there at certain times. So... it's a busy place. Very busy place.

21:47 Peter

Hey, Paul, we heard, I think it was last year regarding some upgrades to... the courts there or the... centre there. Is that started yet, is there anything to report there?

21:56 Paul

No. There's been some designs and concepts put forward that I've seen. You know, they've shown those, but... I have no idea about a start date. I, they haven't actually advertised that at all. So we're all waiting to see, when that might be - because it could mean a fair interruption to either a summer or winter season, I would think. Yeah, that's for sure... yeah. And there's not, it's not like you can move any of the competitions somewhere off-site. I wouldn't... think, you know, they're... occupying, you know, 36 courts or something. It's a busy place, so I'm not sure what they'll do. But anyway, that's why we have... corporate bodies and people running the show, not me. That's good.

22:44 Peter

When you retire, Paul, go into politics. You're very diplomatic. You talked about the Rubies. Any news regarding that at this stage? I mean, I'm assuming there'll be a a team selected and they'll go to a competition later on in the year.

22:56 Paul

Yes, the Rubies will certainly go ahead. I know they've advertised and... coaches and managers have all been to, you know, selection meetings sort of things or. But... they haven't announced anything yet. So we'll just sort of wait on that.

23:12 Peter

Let's not pre-empt anything, Paul. Let's all keep it nice and tidy.

23:17 Paul

Yeah. That's right.

23:18 Peter

Paul, before you go, you are involved with basketball. I know I noticed earlier in the week that the teams for the Pearls and the Boomerangs to go to the various games later on this year were selected.

23:29 Paul

Yeah. That's right. There's a few few South Australians involved - Jane, in the... women's team, which is fantastic. And then we have... my memory... we have Zach and Keenan, the brothers there in the men's team, and... Josh, he's a new member of the team... and I think I'm forgetting one - I'll be in trouble.

23:53 Peter

Well, that's okay. Well, I'll... look it up and let people know. But from a personal point of view, it must be great when when people like that get selected and they're going to Kazahkstan, which is... well, I guess probably not top of the parade as far as the tourist destination goes, but again, a great life experience.

24:11 Paul

Yeah, I was a bit bit surprised when that... was the destination. But I know very, I know nothing about it. So... yeah, it seems like a very long way to go to play basketball.

24:24 Peter

Well, the Games, of course, they're very big. And, you know, we've got this sort of consistent... push, if you like, to get athletes with intellectual disabilities back into the Paralympic movement. So I guess an event like this can kind of play a bit of a role as far as that goes.

24:37 Paul

Oh yes. I think the push to get it back into Paralympics is picking up a bit of steam, I think. So, let's hope - they've been out of it for... a very long time. So yeah, they're due to get back in. It's over 20 years, I think, so...

24:54 Peter

Well of course, yeah. I think sadly Sydney was when they were there. And then that incident happened with that basketball team and whether... the rest is kind of history, which is very, very sad that so many were impacted by the action of so few.

25:07 Paul

Well, it was one... country that has caused it all - and I just don't know, look, I don't know why the whole of the world was, basketball world was penalised because of what one country did. But, yeah, it's a bit sad. Very sad.

25:23 Peter

Anyway, well, let's get back to that one and... yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Well, well. Good luck. Well, we'll keep in touch with the... competition throughout the year. It's always good to catch up. And also, find out when the Rubies play. Good luck to all those that have got their hats in the ring as far as selection for various roles go. Keep up the great work. It's always great to catch up with you. And... well, if ever you go on to politics, I'd be happy to be your campaign manager. Paul.

25:49 Paul

Ah, yeah. Good timing with that. Sort of...

25:52 Peter

Yeah. That's right. 

Paul 

But, uh, no, you won't, you will never see me in politics. 

25:58 Peter

All right, that's good. I didn't really want to be a campaign manager anyway. So you you let me off the hook as well?

26:03 Paul

Yeah, well. That's right. Careful what you wish for.

26:06 Peter

Exactly. All the best, Paul. Keep up the great work, seriously.

26:09 Paul

All right. Thanks, Peter. 

Peter

Great talking with you, Paul.

26:11 Paul

Thank you. 

Peter

There. I got something about him [?] Paul, saddling up for the... Contacts, the netball team in the competition. Good luck to all the teams - we'll keep across the competition throughout the year. And also when the the mighty Rubies play the South Australian team, talking netball. Love it! And also good luck to the Pearls and the Blue Rings. We actually tried to get to one of the coaches or one of the players on, but didn't have much luck. But we'll keep trying because they don't go away for a few weeks yet, so stay tuned for more.

26:40 Tyan

Hey guys, my name is Tyan Taylor. I'm a member of the Australian Aussie Paralympic goalball team - and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia radio network.

26:55 Peter

International guide Dog Day during the week. Let's find out how Guide Dogs SA-NT celebrated the day and speak to their CEO, Aaron Chia. Aaron, good to catch up as always.

27:05 Aaron

Hi Peter, good to catch up with you too.

27:07 Peter

How's it going? The adrenaline's still pumping.

27:09 Aaron

Ah, yeah, it was a it was a huge day, Peter. As you know, we celebrate International Guide Dog Day not only for what it is, but also we call it Guide Dogs Day. And it's a big fundraiser for us as well.

27:21 Peter

How did that go? Because you had a sort of a call centre set up, which is a bit sort of... going back to some of the old fundraising events of years gone by - what was that like? And the atmosphere, I reckon, would have been pretty electric.

27:31 Aaron

Oh, absolutely. You know, the day started with us taking the dogs, and they had to see some of the businesses that were supporting us around in our office and around the area. You know, thanking them for their support. A lot of them were they were providing coffees and stuff like that, and they donated a dollar per coffee to Guide Dogs. And it was a fantastic effort for some of those small businesses. And... when we got back to the call centre, all our corporate partners volunteered to... jump on the phone as well. And so we had a real mix of people out there. We even had a... group of optometry students that volunteered to come in to help out. 

And, you know, we had a very special guest, we had the Honourable Lord mayor, Dr Jane Lomax-Smith came in and said hello to the dogs and jumped on on the phone calls for a bit as well.

28:20 Peter

Things like that are so important. I mean, you talked about the businesses. I know a lot supported you and many of them were involved in hospitality. I guess it's kind of a good way for them to be aware of, if they're not of the rights of guide dogs, and you know how they can go into premises like that to, you know, totally without any... inhibitions or any apprehensions.

28:42 Aaron

That's exactly right. You know... one of the things that we really focus on, on International Guide Dog Day, is to remind people of access rights and to make sure that our clients and anyone that's got a guide or assistance dog understands that, you know, they can get in and around anywhere any anyone else should be able to get to. So that's a... great thing. And, you know, it's a fun way for people to really understand that as well. You know, with us bringing our dogs here and, you know, 99% of people that are there and they melt when they see a guide dog. So they really get to understand how well behaved the dogs are, and how well trained they are. And they they're not... an imposition on any business. Really.

29:23 Peter

It's a great point, isn't it? Because if you're learning in a fun way, rather than sort of being lectured to, the message is probably getting through a lot better. And also you're kind of accepting it a lot more, sort of cordially.

29:34 Aaron

That's right. You know, and particularly in this way, you know, we really try to build that relationship as much as possible. Sure. You know, you really need to sort of like slap a wrist, you know, if something really terrible happens. But I think the key thing is to continually provide that message and continually engage with people to let them know what it's really like.

29:53 Peter

Fantastic. Now, another thing that happened was, a few... prominent buildings around the place were lit up again. That's a great way to kind of get the message out to the broader public, in a very... sort of welcoming way as well.

30:07 Aaron

Yeah, it's been great now that the city's been really, you know, supporting us at Guide Dogs now over the years - and for as long as I've been here, I think we've been trying to to make sure that there are reminders in and around the city for people to have a conversation starter. People, you know, still today sort of say, Oh, I saw that the... train station was lit up and the oval was lit up or whatever. And... it gives you an opportunity to talk about, you know, why and what International Guide Dog Day represents, and the amazing work that the guide dogs actually do.

30:38 Peter

Yeah, and a great point there, because things like the Entertainment Centre, the Festival Centre, and there are ways where people are... blind or low vision people with guide dogs, you know, go - virtually any time, any day.

30:48 Aaron

Exactly right.

30:49 Peter

Yeah. So it's a great way to get that message across. Now, I know when we spoke to you a couple of weeks ago, you just launched your most expensive... dog toy. How did that go? Because I think when we spoke to you... it was about $2,000. And the last I read, there was well over 10,000. So I suggest that went okay.

31:06 Aaron

Yes, yes. You know, between... little Frankie donating her toy rope to us to to crowdfund and the dollar matching that our corporate sponsors provided on the day, we raised over $200,000.

31:20 Peter

Are you kidding?

31:21 Aaron

Yeah. On the one day. And there's even more good news. Because we didn't really get to our target yet... our corporate sponsors have agreed to dollar-match any donations today as well - up to $250,000.

31:35 Peter

Fantastic. And I mean, you know, that's potentially maybe five, five guide dogs.

31:40 Aaron

Absolutely, absolutely. And people sort of don't realise how much it costs to... you know, bring a guide dog match to a handler. So, yeah it's great.

31:52 Peter

What about in terms of the difference that can make to a person's life? I mean, that's probably - well, not probably, that IS the most sort of important and powerful messages in terms of the ability to be able to get around independently, those sort of things. You kind of, well, you can, but you can't really put a price on it.

32:08 Aaron

That's right, that's right. I mean, we say all the time, you know, that it costs over $50,000 to... raise a guide dog. But, you know, we say that the outcomes are priceless... really. You know, we don't just focus on the handler, him or herself as well. Because now the handler's actually in our lives with the family and/or friends and... have to get around and engage, so that they can... actually participate like everyone else.

32:35 Peter

Now people can participate and also donate their guide dogs. Guide Dogs is the website. But I guess there's a lot of work that goes into getting a guide dog to that point. And people, as in members of the general public can get involved with that as well in the in the various guises that take it from zero to to being a guide dog.

32:56 Aaron

Yes, yes. And I think you know that it takes a year and a half to two years to actually get from... start to finish to get a dog matched. And that first 12 months is really critical in terms of puppy, you know, volunteers helping us out to... home and do the initial basic training for the puppy. And then they come in for the intensive training for the next to last six months or so. So yeah, it takes a long time and a lot of effort and a lot of volunteer help.

33:24 Peter

One of the things that we often can forget - well, maybe we shouldn't, but - to some of us that maybe, you know, live in a city like Adelaide, your guide dogs, they're saying, Don't tell us a bit about the work that goes on in the NT.

33:36 Aaron

So the NT, as you know, it's a quite a difficult market to support. So we do fly-in, fly-out work. We've got orientation and mobility instructors. We've got one orientation mobility instructor actually... local. But we fly in and out our... occupational therapists and depending on the demand there, we're always looking to expand our services there. At the moment, it's a thing... we don't have any dogs in the NT, but, certainly if there's an opportunity to... for someone that wants to have a dog in the end zone, certainly we can do that too.

34:11 Peter

Because I guess, you know, there are people who are blind or have low vision that, you know, live all over Australia and that sometimes can be forgotten by the, the big cities. And I guess, you know, Adelaide's kind of a mid-sized city, but sometimes we can be sort of all consumed by what goes on in town, rather than the sort of challenges that can face people who don't live in those areas.

34:29 Aaron

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that's why we've always had at least one person stationed in the NT to be the the person that engages with our clients and to really, you know, be the liaison person with the government departments there as well, to... gauge demand. I've been up there a few times as well to... talk to the... government of the day, to look at what their programs are. And we were actually... an integral part of them looking at those NDIS specialist sort of support grants that were then sort of... rather than being individually sort of... provided like they normally are.... they were sort of like grants that were actually provided to certain communities that didn't... have the ways and means to actually apply and access the funding.

35:16 Peter

Yeah, that's very important, isn't it? Because, you know, hopefully that means the funding gets, you know, right to the way that it can be best used.

35:23 Aaron

Yeah. Where it's needed. Yes.

35:24 Peter

Yeah. Where it's needed indeed. Aaron, as you said, there's still a chance for people to take part if they've heard about it. I don't know if they've been on another planet, but they can still go. Dog Day was on the 30th. If people do want to take part or help out, and I guess you're always happy for people to help out in any way they can... how can we find you?

35:41 Aaron

Jump online to to our website sort of thing... SANT Dogs dot com dot AU - and yeah, so just jump online and touch base with us and we'll work out something that you can help us out with.

35:55 Peter

Terrific, Aaron - I'll let you go and have a rest. You probably need it. It's been a pretty hectic month for April, but... well, I'm sure it doesn't really get much... slacker in a little while, but maybe just a chance to kind of catch your breath.

36:07 Aaron

No, no, thanks, but it's all worth it.

36:09 Peter

I'm sure it is. That's Aaron Chia there from Guide Dogs SANT, guide dogs. Stay calm. If you want to donate, there's still a chance for you to donate to that particular campaign or indeed the day, the International Day. And I'm sure we'll speak to Aaron many more times in the future. 

It's that time of the month where we catch up with David Mitchell, the best health commentator in the universe. David, good to catch up.

36:36 David

Ah, you're a lovely man. Say the right sort of thing. Hello, everyone. Don't believe him.

36:41 Peter

I respect the truth. I often say I only speak the truth on this program. Hey, David. Last month we got an email from Julia regarding... yeast and maybe some of the things that can be done. And you gave us a great... well, quite a lengthy sort of history of... what was happening. Do you want to kind of recap on that and then maybe kind of finish off?

36:59 David

Yes, indeed. Right. We sort of rushed to try and get it all fitted in. But I thought it was a bit squeezed. And I also thought that the interesting thing is that... we were, we really started with talking about thrush or Candida or the Yeast Syndrome... that... Dr Crook developed back in the 60s and 70s. What we're actually talking about is... that there is within our bowels, there are millions and millions of different bacteria and yeasts and so on. But if you get the wrong ones, or we get a predominance of one that is greater than the that is so-called healthy, then we become unhealthy. And Crook was probably one of the earliest people to write about that was to say, Hey, it was all due to Candida - which is a little, little yeast that ferments things in the bowel. 

And he developed that into a big scenario where you could kill it off with... Nystatin, a relatively good drug, a safe drug, I should say, and that you had to go on a yeast-free diet, which was absolutely awful in the long run. What we've now discovered, number one, was that the symptoms that he was describing can be related to a a predominance of quite a big range of both yeast and bacteria within the bowel that ferment food in some way, shape or form, and create a whole range of symptoms that could go anywhere from chronic fatigue to depression to anxiety, to irritable bowel, to some forms of ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease, to aches and pains, to liver diseases, to food allergies and a whole range of other things. 

And bit by bit, the concept of thrush and candida moved into dysbiosis, meaning an abnormal balance of certain bugs with the predominance of bad ones. And then more latterly, finding different specific bacteria from various tests that were involved. But the new buzzword is gut fermentation syndrome, which is interesting because it also can occur in the bladder that the particularly the yeast strains, can actually ferment Carbohydrates into alcohol so you can actually get pisshead or drunk without even drinking because you're doing it yourself. 

In the case, in the case of the bladder, it doesn't get absorbed, the alcohol doesn't get absorbed, but it does cause, uh, an irritable bladder or interstitial cystitis or cystitis type symptoms, as well as all those other symptoms. And in the bowel it will cause fermentation but also cause drunkenness. And it can cause a... excess production and excess delivery of relatively toxic chemicals to the liver, that it can actually lead into liver disease and even cirrhosis, and that many of the people were accused of being alcoholics or secret drinkers, when in fact they actually had their own little brewery inside their inside their bowel that was causing it. 

And that's now the concept that we're getting into is that accepting... there's a multitude of buggies - and whether there is some consistency or some easy way or small way of dealing with it. And there is. And that's where we we came up to last... time we were speaking, was that concept of the poo transplant, that it's been found in almost all the conditions that I've mentioned, and certainly in terms of of the buggies that we're talking about. And I might add and put it in brackets here, we're talking about things like Hospitium difficulty, Dientamoeba fragilis, Inanna hominis, Blastocystis hominis and Candida and some other species that sort of names that, that rock it around. All the research are, the types of buggies that are most significant in there. 

And there is a generalized umbrella concept that, number one, both the bacteria and the yeast tend to ferment and fermentation comes from carbohydrates. So part of the deal is that it's not so much a yeast free environment. When we talk about, we're now talking about a lower carbohydrate intake and an increased protein. And guess what? That happens to be the Dinosaur Dude concept. But I wrote about 20 years ago, that's really the starting point for people that have all these sorts of bowel and other irritations that they think are food-related, and that can obviously include many, many of the people that have gluten problems. 

It is actually the the high GI rated carbohydrates or simple carbohydrates that have the greater amount of gluten that also causes same... gut fermentation syndrome. So cutting back on that and substituting more protein as, as the the answer can make in itself a lot. There has been quite a bit of money spent in both in making and in advertising and in buying probiotics. And they have a relatively small place because they, in a sense, not killing the bugs or removing them. They've got nowhere to go, nowhere to grow. So they just keep on going out, out the other end. 

So there is a... what's the word?... a space where some forms of antifungal and antibacterial prescription drugs can be used. Things like I mentioned statin if it's considered to be more of a straight sugar-fermented, carbohydrate-fermentable bit first, or it can be getting into the more what are called anaerobic bacteria, which will often use a a compound called flagyl or another one called fasigyn that that have a part in... Giardia was one of the common ones there. Then it went on to the all the other weird and wonderful new discoveries that were made of bacteria, and some more exotic ones. Antibiotics were being used and sometimes I was successful. Sometimes they were.... what's the word... used - and had an effect. But it was temporary and so it required repetitive ones. 

But the problem with the stronger antibiotics is they tend to kill off some of the other good bugs. So you would end up with making things worse. And lo and behold, then came the discovery of what we were calling the poo transplant. That if you can take from a very healthy person a portion of their poo way up inside their bowel, both in the or I should say, either in their small bowel or large bowel, that they can take a sample, take it out, give it a bit of a feed, and then they can put it back into someone who has one of these gut fermentation syndromes with remarkable success. It's... becoming in the end, I think, the chosen way to go. 

You might have to jump a few hurdles to get to that stage of try another trial and error type stuff, trying all these other bits and pieces that I've mentioned, but the one that many people looks like being the go. The good news is that whilst the the original one was a matter of having a colonoscopy, putting the flexible tube up inside a healthy person's backside and taking some specimens high up inside and then using it, a new colonoscopy on the inside of someone else that was not almost that very expensive. 

But it you know, it's inconvenient and uncomfortable for the better word. Now they're getting to the stage where they can actually put the poo inside little capsules, with the outside of the capsule being The chemically adjusted so that it can get through into either the small parts of the small bell or into the large bowel when they will release the poo boom. And as it splashes around, metaphorically speaking, it is starting to grow. And lo and behold, that's exactly what is seen to happen. So whilst it's unlikely that you'll find anyone in Australia that will will offer you a capsule to treat your irritable bowel or gut fermenting bowel. But it's coming. 

In the meantime, it certainly can be done by just the local bit. And I do point out, and I mentioned a couple of times there, the person that is donating it has to have a very rigid checkup to make sure they haven't got any bad bugs there in their bowel that they'd be spreading, and they haven't got anything else wrong with them, that they might be in some way affecting or creating a rejection. We often hear about transplants. Yeah, things get well. They make sure that the gas withdrawals have been quite brilliant and fastidious. And so was our TGA Therapeutic Goods Administration in overseeing it and setting up the criteria. It seems to be the way to go in so many different ways. 

So there is therefore that great light. It's no longer on the horizon, but is getting closer and closer and bigger and bigger and being more successful as a means of dealing with this brewery, or bring your own brewery or gut fermentable syndrome, of which the Candida, the thrush, was a part of it, but only a part of it.

46:35 Peter

Hey David, how would the marketers go here? We've got some poo in capsules - would you like some?

46:42 David

I want to know about it.

46:44 Peter

Exactly. David, just quickly. .. Julia kind of mentioned this in the email - cooking doesn't kind of destroy it, that's the point.

46:53 David

Yep, yep. That's right.

46:54 Peter

You can stay a little bit more if you like.

46:57 David

No no, no. I'm happy with that.

47:00 Peter

Yeah. All right. So? So, yeah. So cooking doesn't actually kill it off all the way, if I can put it that way.

47:05 David

No it doesn't. No, that's... that seems to be the thing about it that any... the bowel is... an amazing thing. Not only is it a great brain, but it's a great factory. Multitask, multi-talented multitude of chemicals that we rely on that are all manufactured in inside our bowel. And we just need them to do the quality inspector needs to be around all the time to make sure that he's making the right stuff in the right way, and that it comes with a long term warranty.

47:38 Peter

So before you go, yeah, your your Latin was absolutely splendid. When you name those bugs, I assume they were Latin names. Were they? Yeah. Yeah. Well I... know they're looking for a pope, so... I'm happy to be a referee.

47:53 David

Thank you. But I did love that movie, The Conclave. If people haven't seen it, it's worth seeing - because it's so much like what we think does happen, it seems. I think... it's pretty close to real and that the baddie that in real life that's been banned from going, he was found to have his finger in the till with the... Vatican's money. He's been banned. Well, there's a baddie like that just like that in this, that conclave movie that's around. Check it out. It's really good. Ralph Fiennes is wonderful in his acting, and so is Isabella Rossellini, who's the head nun. She is fantastic.

48:34 Peter

David Mitchell, health commentator and movie critic. David, we'll catch up next month. You take care.

48:39 David

I will, same to yourself and everyone listening.

48:42 Peter

So join us each month. And if there's a topic you'd like David to cover, get in touch and I will do it for us. 

Every time I hear that, I feel like a cup of tea. I can't drink tea into the studio. I'll get into trouble for that. But we can't talk about it. And the best person to talk to with is Belinda from Brew by Belinda, the Brew that is True - 97A Old Port Road at Queenstown. Belinda, great to have you back with us.

49:18 Belinda

Thank you for having me again, Peter. I love our monthly chat.

49:21 Peter

Yes, it's very nice. And so do some of our listeners - because a couple of people we should... shout out to... first of all, Felicity says that Earl Grey tea is her favourite tea. You spoke about Earl Grey last time, so Felicity was very pleased to hear about that. And now we actually... enjoyed the segment and thought maybe in the future if you could talk about French Earl Grey.

49:42 Belinda

Yes. Of course. Yeah, we can talk forever about Earl Grey. It's such a beautiful tea. And yes, as we know, French Earl Grey, you know, is one... sort of style of that... so we can definitely chat a little more about that in the future.

49:57 Peter

All right. We'll put that on notice for future discussions. Now of course, next week, next Sunday, May the 11th, is Mother's Day. And flowers are very synonymous with Mother's Day. What about flowers and tea? Can they kind of go together, or can flowers go in tea?

50:11 Belinda

Absolutely. Blended teas often contain petals from flowers. Or you can make tea just with flowers, like rose petals or rose buds - like you can make a rose tea. Just... brew those up on its own. Or you can blend, you know, petals with, you know, actual tea, like caffeinated tea. I'm actually drinking a white tea blended with rose, right as we speak. So yes, it can be blended. They can be blended into tea or or drunk on their own. But I guess flowers do add such a beautiful vibe to teas, and I guess it's a bit of a combination of like the kind of sensory effects that they bring, but also the health, you know, the health benefits that some of these... petals and flowers can have.

51:04 Peter

So what do you say? Petals? You actually mean the petals of the... actual flower itself?

51:09 Belinda

Yes. So there are some flowers that are safe and edible and some that are not. But the ones that are safe, and that we often use in tea blending are things like rose. So that can be little tiny rose buds, which are absolutely so pretty or petals. We also use things like calendula petals, lavender petals, blue cornflower petals, often little jasmine petals and buds are used in tea. That's quite popular. And then there's also things like Chrysanthemum, which, you know, Chrysanthemum tea is quite popular. So yeah, you can use different parts of the flower. Sometimes it's the whole flower or bud, and sometimes it's just the petals, and sometimes you're using them for sort of like the actual flavour that they bring to a tea. 

But other times you're using them sort of more for, you know, the visual element that they bring, like the colour and some and the aroma. So sometimes it's about sort of a sensory addition that you're bringing to the tea. Other times it's about an actual flavor that it brings to the tea, and then other times it's actually about the health benefits that those beautiful petals have.

52:27 Peter

Yeah, I guess you're quite right when you say sensory. I guess it can be the taste or the flavour, but, you know, like like a nice meal that's served beautifully. It's also about the look that can be sort of impactful as well.

52:39 Belinda

Absolutely. We we eat and drink with our eyes, you know. And so for me, when I'm blending teas for my range, that visual element is is really, really important - like balancing colour, bringing colour to the table in a blend. So I use petals a lot in my teas to, yeah, bring a pop of colour. So some flowers can have quite a strong flavour profile - things like rose and definitely something like lavender is quite kind of... you know, striking and pungent in its flavour. But then there are other petals that we use in tea that don't actually impart a lot of flavour, but are sort of more used for their colour and their health benefits. 

And I'm thinking of things like calendula petals too, beautiful yellow petals. They have a very mild flavor. So they don't kind of, you know, burst through with a lot of flavour, but they have beautiful kind of healing and soothing health benefits. And then blue cornflower petals, they don't bring... a lot of flavour at all to a tea blend, but they, their incredible striking blue colour looks super pretty. And they're, you know, quite rich in antioxidants. So yeah, we use them in different ways for different reasons, but definitely visual is big on my list when I'm using flowers in tea.

54:05 Peter

Yeah. Well you are very artistic person, as we've learnt from the times we've been chatting to you. When you say you also use, for example, at the moment you're drinking white tea, would you use a more sort of subtle or gentle tea rather than a a strong tea as a base? Rather, you know, when you're using... flowers like this or petals like this?

54:23 S8

Mm, it all depends on what you're creating with... yeah, the tea I'm drinking, I've used a really delicate white tea, and I've just a touch of rose petals. It's really about getting that balance. You don't want the rose to overtake the very delicate white tea. So. But you also want the rose to kind of be present in the flavour profile. So it's all about harmony and balance - in balance we, any kind of blending. But then in something you know, if I was making like... a black tea with some vanilla and rose, then I might, yeah, might like, you can use something as bold as a black tea as a base when you're blending with flowers as well. 

So yeah, really, it's a bit of a tricky question, but it all comes down to harmony and balance of flavours in any blend. So no sort of rules around things. It's just kind of, yeah, considering all of the different elements that you're bringing together and how they are going to come together in a harmonious way.

55:23 Peter

That makes perfect sense. Now, I know we always say you're not a medical practitioner. You're certainly not qualified in this area, but what are kind of some of the health benefits that are associated with some of the the petals that might be included in teas? What are some of the general sort of claims that are made?

55:39 Belinda

Absolutely. Well, some flowers like Chamomile, for example, are very calming to the system. They're traditionally used to sort of aid digestion and promote relaxation. I use things like hibiscus, and elderflower a lot. And they are great for the immune system because they have a lot of vitamin C, and then things like... lavender is very great, very good for the kind of nervous and digestive system. Very soothing. Calendula is great for kind of healing and skin health and... cleansing from the inside. And then rose is known to be a mood-boosting petal. So it's high in antioxidants, but it's also known to kind of boost the mood and uplift, and, you know, often kind of referred to as like a bit of a hug in a... mug. So... 

Peter

I like that.

56:36 Belinda

Yeah. So it kind of is it really is about the feeling that you're trying to create. And definitely, you know... we know that fresh flowers can uplift our mood. The aroma is... beneficial to our health and wellbeing. So I think, you know, thinking about how you bring that to tea, you know, translates really well because, you know, I, yeah, I feel like these beautiful flowers incorporated in teas really can help create the whole experience of relaxation and, you know, self-care and, you know, just nourishment.

57:11 Peter

Well, maybe with, as I say, Mother's Day coming up rather than a bunch of flowers, maybe a... floral kind of... arrangement as far as a tea goes, might be the thing, I guess, as you say. And like anything, it kind of also depends on your own personal taste as well. Like, you can kind of be creative and also be... flexible as far as what you... use.

57:32 Belinda

Absolutely. Some people, you know love rose and other people really don't like it. You know, I guess it comes from those, you know, childhood experiences and exposure to different kinds of scents and smells and experiences. Some people love lavender, others don't. Same with chamomile. So yeah, I guess putting them together in your own way, it is possible and great. And you know, we offer those kind of custom blends where people can... create your own blend. And that's actually something we're doing this Mother's Day, sort of... offering people an opportunity to create the perfect blend for their, you know, mother figure. So you can personalise these things and... create the perfect brew for you.

58:15 Peter

Yeah. Or your Mum, it's just something a little bit different rather than a conventional bunch of flowers. Something a little bit different.

58:21 Belinda

Yeah. I mean, I love fresh flowers, don't get me wrong.

58:24 Peter

In case anyone's listening.

58:26 Belinda

Ah, I think in another life or even in this life, I, you know, floristry has been something that I've been really interested in, I think, you know, makes sense kind of dealing with, you know.

58:37 Peter

Making pretty things.

58:38 Belinda

But yeah, I guess, you know, fresh flowers have a certain lifespan. But, you know, when you do.

58:45 Peter

Yeah.

58:45 Belinda

Great point with flowers in tea. You know, it's something that, you know, you can enjoy for many times to come and share with others. So that's why I like working with, you know, dried flowers in blends.

58:58 Peter

Fantastic blend. If people want to come and see you and... maybe, you know, they can come up... with their own recipe and see if you can put it together for them, where can we find you?

59:06 Belinda

You can find me at my studio, which is on Old Port Road in Queenstown. So 97A Old Port Road, Queenstown. You can catch me on the phone, 0419 839 702 or via my website, Belinda dot com dot AU.

59:25 Peter

Yep. And also ubiquitous on Instagram. Belinda. Great to catch up. I'm not sure if we'll do furniture or Earl Grey next time, but if there's a tea that you'd like Belinda to expand a bit on that maybe either like or you'd like to know more about, et in touch and like we will for Abby, we'll find out more about her grand coming weeks. Belinda, great to catch up. Happy Mother's Day and we'll catch up next month.

59:45 Belinda

Wonderful. Thanks, Peter.

59:46 Peter

Belinda Hellyer there from Brewed by Belinda - the Brew that is True.

59:57 Program ID

On the Vision Australia network through your favourite podcast service on 1197 AM in Adelaide, you're listening to Leisure Link.

1:00:10 S1

Martin Stewart is certainly one of Australia's finest advocates. He's the national advocacy Officer of Blind Citizens Australia, and they're celebrating a very special year. Martin, always good to catch up. Thanks for your time.

1:00:20 Martin

Thank you. Yes, we're preparing the 50th birthday cake okay.

1:00:24 Peter

What are the ingredients in it? Over 50 years. A lot of stuff has gone into it, hasn't it?

1:00:28 Martin

Well, the ingredients that we use is firstly a love of our community, and I mean that sincerely. You got to have that in order to to do the work that we do, to take the blows from the parties that sometimes we we have to advocate with. And, you know, return the... some courtesies as well as celebrate. So it's all there in our hearts and our minds and... our everyday actions.

1:00:57 Peter

But... I've got a guess if you like - which is, I assume that you've probably got better at advocacy the more you do it, because I guess, you know, you were a bit of a firebrand in your early days, and I guess you're mellow. But by the same token, you learn from your experiences.

1:01:10 Martin

Absolutely. I think diversity explains my life - from the days of of having to fight really hard on the ground with a lot of fervour and passion, which I've still got. But I do it differently. But I've still got those bows and arrows and other things available to me. But these days I'm much more on on the inside. Not so far out off-side. And I deal with it accordingly. Because once you are an advocate for an organisation rather than just yourself, just the fact that you are in an organisation called Blind Citizens Australia seems to help the progress. So when people call us, they're already in front.

1:01:56 Peter

That's a great point, isn't it? Because I guess you need kind of to have some sort of street cred, if I can call it that, don't you, to go to another organisation and say I'm advocating on behalf of BCA or on behalf of these people - they've got to say, Oh, yeah, we know you. We kind of know what you're about.

1:02:12 Martin

Correct. And our name is well known. And even if it's not the fact that you have credibility of displaying your name and advising them that we are from Blind Citizens Australia... if there's, for example, a dog guide slash guide dog denial event... and you come calling and you are Blind Citizens Australia on behalf of a client... they tend to listen - and those cases actually are usually very quickly wrapped up in the favour of our client.

1:02:45 Peter

Over the time, there's been a bit of different... disputes or allocation of funding towards advocacy organisations. Sometimes you got to almost advocate just for yourselves to stay alive.

1:02:56 Martin

Correct. And unfortunately, we've lost out on NDIS funding to... advocate on behalf of participants, which is a big area, but it's a very competitive one and we have lost funding for that area. We can listen and direct people elsewhere when it comes to NDIS matters, but we can't directly advocate, which is a real blow for us.

1:03:25 Peter

That's an important thing, isn't it? Because it's sort of all-consuming, isn't it? I mean, the other thing is, and I talked about this the other night with someone, not everyone that's on the NDIS has a disability - and sometimes maybe the general community probably don't kind of, aren't kind of aware of that.

1:03:40 Martin

Yes. And unfortunately it's becoming politicised. The NDIS and the cost of it, the alleged cost of it. Because what's not mentioned is the advantages. The offsets are people being out and about, employed, educated to be further employed, etc. etc. due to the support from the NDIS, which means that the contributors become taxpayers and it's a significant offset to those costs. But that's just usually not mentioned in the political debates.

1:04:13 Peter

Well, certainly that was one of the things that was kind of highlighted, particularly in the early days, about how it could kind of we're not even necessarily be self funding, but, you know, there'd be money coming back the other way if you like.

1:04:25 Martin

And it does, and it does.

1:04:27 Peter

But what about over the 50 years, though, you haven't been here the whole time? We should point that out. But some of the kind of highlights or lowlights or bits that you're most proud of...

1:04:36 Martin

Well, I think of the founders: David Blythe, Hugh Jeffrey, I think of people like Mary Anne Diamond, Joan Letterman, Bill Jolly, so many luminaries in our community who have supported our causes, our organisation, and the reason for our existence and what we've done over the years has actually shaped a lot of our lives. For example, the audible, tactile lights, they've become the sound of Australia, a bit like the sound of trams in Melbourne. Often when you hear interviews, you hear the clicking lights in them as a journalist is doing a broadcast nearby them.

And you recognise other work, such as the defence of the Disability Support Pension blind. Pretty complex name these days, but that had to be defended on three separate occasions. And every time we've come up successfully. The last one was in fact in early 1990s. And that will rise up again, no doubt about it. There's a good reason for it to be Means Test free. We know that other disability groups don't have that, and there's an argument to say they should have that. But it's a reason which we will always defend because of the massive costs, even with the NDIS that we incur because of a blindness or vision impairment.

1:06:17 Peter

Well, it's a great point you make about the audio tactile lights. I mean, there was a time when they didn't exist, they just did... enough to kind of remember that probably appreciated. You know, younger people may be coming through the system now kind of think, well, of course they're like, it's kind of a given. But there was a time when they weren't there. There had to be advocacy to get them happening. And now everyone can benefit from it - and not just people who are blind or have low vision.

1:06:40 Martin

Correct. You know, these days, the people burying their heads in their phones, they need that jolt, that reminder, the same as announcements on trains that we fought for. Same thing. You may miss your station if you're sighted and you aren't concentrating. You're focusing on your iPad, for example. And that is something that we say in order to get them over the line, we actually will say, These announcements are not just for us, they're for the general community. 

It's the same as a ramp to a building is not just something that benefits a person using a wheelchair. You can have a temporary injury. You could be an older person that requires to walk in that way on a ramp rather than stairs. Even small children. So it's... a real advantage for the community when we are assisted and supported with what we need.

1:07:41 Peter

You talked about your iPads, your smart devices, etc. They can be a bit of a pain, but by the same token, a great bonus as well. And of course, access to information is something that BCA has been very passionate about or pretty much for the 50 years.

1:07:54 Martin

That's right. We are on all sorts of reference committees - education, employment, public transport. So our messages being sent out about access to information to your phone bills, a whole lot of areas that we have a place in and are expressing the views of our Australians who are blind or vision impaired.

1:08:20 Peter

Well, it's quality of life, isn't it, Martin? I mean, okay, you might have someone in your family that can read a bill for you, but you don't want that. No one really wants that. You know anyone if you're blind or or not blind, if you don't have a disability, you can kind of appreciate the fact that if you can read something yourself, you know that you've got the privacy angle, you've got the independence angle. That is such an important and powerful point.

1:08:42 Martin

Correct. And it's it's no accident that these technologies that are coming forward now are happening because we've pushed and pushed and pushed for that type of ability through technology to remain private, to be independent and to have that quality of life that you're talking about. Going back to the past, we've also successfully advocated for radio stations.

1:09:13 Peter

Yeah.

1:09:14 Martin

And those stations are now across the country, fully licensed due to a leading push from Blind Citizens Australia. And whether you listen to them or not, the fact that they're there and you've got the ability to go there when you choose, if you choose and if something interesting comes up, like some of your broadcast, Peter, they are available on those networks.

1:09:41 Peter

It's a great point you make. I was actually in Tasmania late last year and kind of driving around. I wasn't driving myself, but driving around and we had 7FX on and you kind of think, well, this is really cool. You know, you can go to another state, sort of catch up on the the local news or the news out of the... Tasmanian area. And I mean, you can do that online anyway. But, you know, sometimes you don't have to... we have to experience it to sort of understand how important it is, even though you're kind of involved in it anyway, if that makes any sense.

1:10:10 Martin

That's it. And in more modern times, we were there during COVID. We were there with our conference facilities available for people to join others and to talk about their feelings, to express issues. And now that's morphed into object work with AI to the Future regarding employment. We've got a new peer group, employment peer group. We've got art peer groups. I actually host the Sight group. It's a it's a group for people with acquired sight loss. Acquired sight loss, which can I say, I had a bit of an attitude about self-help groups at one stage in my life - thinking, Ah, just inheriting each other's debts or that sort of thing, you know? 

But now after hosting this and I mean this sincerely, I have seen the advantage, if you choose to be in one of those groups, of being right on the spot and hearing others speak about their lived experiences, which then adds to others in the group's experiences and knowledge, the knowledge base increases. Therefore, the confidence to go forward and be independent also goes forward for them.

1:11:31 Peter

Well, you know, everyone can kind of be a role model or learn from another role model, as you say, that have had that lived experience and say, Okay, well, if Martin can do it, well, I might not be quite as good as he can be, but I can at least aspire to that as well.

1:11:43 Martin

Well, it's sharing and caring a lot. That's the thing. And I now do not have the attitude I used to have to peer group. So come aboard everyone. If we've got, you know, art appreciation peer groups, we've got music peer groups, you know, just about every aspect of life, we've got a peer group for it - as well as further developments with our Inform events that we have on various subjects that come up all the time and are advertised in our... newsletters, etc.. So, you know, if you want it, we've probably got it.

1:12:15 Peter

Yeah, those online get-togethers, if you like. They were so, so popular, which I guess just proves how important they are. And of course, isolation can be such a deleterious thing for people's health, particularly if you have a disability.

1:12:28 Martin

Isolation is known for being a very destructive force energy that comes down on people creating loneliness, creating disadvantage. Because the more isolated you are, the less knowledge you're getting, and therefore the less ability to have that quality of life that we all deserve.

1:12:49 Peter

Well, even length of life. I think there's a lot of evidence to show that people that are lonely, probably, you know, their life expectancy can be impacted. Martin, we never have enough time, but it's always great to catch up now where you have got a 50th birthday cake and more importantly, you've got an event to share that.

1:13:05 Martin

We have. We've got an event call our our office on our 1800 033 660. I'll say it again. 1800 033 660 to register for our 50th event. It starts on the 13th, goes through to the 15th of June. Friday to Sunday. We hope you can come along and enjoy all of what we have to offer. And there may be some online ability set up as well, so just keep a watch. Watch this space as they say, and we'll tell you all about it.

1:13:37 Peter

Friday the 13th, that gets underway. It's got to work.

1:13:41 Martin

Well, we're going to reverse... that date and have good luck.

1:13:45 Peter

But good luck to you. Keep up the great work. Always great to catch up.

1:13:48 Martin

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks everyone. 

1:13:51 Peter

Martin Stewart. He's the national advocacy officer for Blind Australia - 1800 033 660 or BCA dot org - or that information up with our show notes. 

What a fantastic standing event was held in Adelaide this week. And if you live in New South Wales, it's coming to see you very soon as well. Kathryn Carey is from Impact Institute, and is on the line.Kathryn, lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

1:14:18 Kathryn

Thank you. Thank you for having having me on.

1:14:20 Peter

Now, the WorkAbility Expo - is it kind of what it sounds like?

1:14:24 Kathryn

Yes, yes it is. Look at its heart. WorkAbility expos are designed to connect employers and people with disability.

1:14:31 Peter

I guess there are two sides of the equation, aren't they? Got the employee and the employer.

1:14:36 Kathryn

Yes, absolutely. And in fact, it's more than that. There is an entire ecosystem that sort of comes together when you're talking about people with disability and employment. So there's open employers, there's disability employment service providers and a range of sort of government agencies and advocacy organisations that help in this space. And then there are people with disability themselves that are looking for employment. So the expos are really about bringing all of those people together, all under the one roof at the one time.

1:15:07 Peter

Now, I think in Adelaide this week, it was the first time you've come to Adelaide.

1:15:10 Kathryn

It was indeed, and it was great. We loved Adelaide. You guys are so lovely down there. We really, really enjoyed it.

1:15:17 Peter

Well, it's a bit of an idea of what the setup was like and who came along and what people got out of it, do you think?

1:15:23 Kathryn

Yeah. Look... so we had... well over a thousand people come through - which was great, and about 50 organisations with us. So that was a mixture, as I said, everything from open employers right through to all those disability employment service providers. And those organisations will often be helping people transition to work. And then there are others that are enterprises themselves, where you can work... in an environment... within the organisation as well. And then we had sort of government agencies like Department of Social Services. And they can help you with things like accessing job access and that sort of thing. 

So, you know, what supports are available for you, either as an employer or as an employer. And the NDIA...organisations like that are all... we're all there on the day. We had lots of school leaver kids coming through, but also people from all walks of life as well.

1:16:20 Peter

I guess if you run a business, you're kind of... you know, 24 over 7 worrying about your business, etcetera. But there is a lot of support out there for work modifications and support that you can get financially. If you take on a person with a disability, that's probably, you know, a message that is important, but maybe a bit hard to get out there because people are so busy doing what they do day to day.

1:16:40 Kathryn

Yeah. Look, that's absolutely correct. There is a sort of a little bit of inertia in the system. People don't understand that that support is out there, but we really would encourage people to get on board... and have a look at the... job access website... and that will give you a little bit of information. And by and large, many of the people who are employed, um, who have a disability only need really minor modifications. And often they're... not significant... in terms of the funding that is required. There's a bit of a, sort of a misnomer. 

I mean, obviously there are lots and lots of variation in people with disability, but we know the data tells us that organisations who embrace... inclusive hiring, including with people with disability, they do tend to do better overall financially once they're sort of over that kind of hump of, you know, just needing to think about things a little bit differently. But yeah, I understand that, you know, when you are busy running a business, it sometimes feels like a little bit extra to do, but it will pay dividends in the long run. I can guarantee you that people with disability, they're often more committed. They often take less sick days... they really are keen to work with.

1:17:56 Peter

The bottom line is the bottom line. If you can appeal to that, then you're kind of halfway there. Halfway there. What about, you said during the week and we're a pretty big state - so size-wise, maybe not so much population wise, but people in sort of more remote areas or country areas, because sometimes that can be overlooked by us all, by all our city slickers.

1:18:17 Kathryn

Yeah. Look, we are trying to get to as many locations as as we can. We are up in Newcastle this... next week. I was going to say this week. It's next week. Next... Friday and Saturday. We're also going to places like Darwin. We've been down.

1:18:34 Peter

Oh, excellent.

1:18:35 Kathryn

So yeah, we've hit, you know, we're hitting the major capital cities, but... you know, Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra... but we still have a couple of regional ones to go. We've also been down to Wollongong late last year. So, yeah, we are working... our way around. But yeah, appreciate that. There are many, many places to get to that we can't... be in every place at once.

1:18:57 Peter

What about the kind of... awareness, I guess, of things like the NDIS? I mean, here we are with... well, by the time this goes to where we've had an election, I guess there's always discussion around employment for everyone. Kind of the awareness... I mean, we kind of touched on the fact that maybe employers aren't as aware of perhaps some of the support that's out there. Do you think, you know that message about being more committed, being more loyal, you know, less days of absenteeism - do you think that message gets across enough?

1:19:26 Kathryn

Look, we we need to continue to put it out there. To be fair, what I hear from employers is, really that they understand it, but they are concerned about their ability to deliver. So even if they are committed to it, they're... a little bit nervous. They're nervous about, you know, making sure that they're doing things. You know, I'm using inverted commas, of course, which you can't see. But they, they're thinking that they need to do things right, and need to be perfect from the get go. And what I would really encourage employers to do, if you're already thinking about this and you've... you know, talked to your staff and people are on board, then you are a long way down the track, and there are tons of programs out there that will help employers get ready. 

For example, when we go to the Hunter, well, it'll be sort of the week of... after this podcast goes out on the ninth and 10th of May, we've got an organisation with us... and they run a program called Bids. And that is a free service. And they do go out and they help businesses... get ready for this stuff. So there is support there. People do just need to... reach out.

1:20:37 Peter

You've done a little bit of travel, and more could come as you touched on. Any state doing it better than the other. Can one state learn off another? Do they work enough together?... maybe is a better question.

1:20:46 Kathryn

Yeah, it's a it's a good question. I don't like to play favourites with states, but we do... love the regional areas. And look, we did... have a great experience in Adelaide. To be fair, we did find... that in South Australia they were a little bit more engaged... and, we had a lot more employees. It's the place where we've had the most employers. So, that was... great. And we do love going out to the... slightly smaller regional areas as well. I mean, Newcastle is obviously a big area, but it's not... Sydney or Brisbane or Melbourne. So that's one of our favourite places to go. And we'll be there on the the 9th and 10th.

1:21:27 Peter

Alright. Well we'll come to that in a second. I know that we have Matt Cook on the program quite regularly, our Human Services Minister, and one of the things I badgered that about is the amount of people with disabilities that the government employs. I mean, they've got a big role to play here as well.

1:21:39 Kathryn

Absolutely. That's a really good point. And look, organisations like the NDIA have actually been with us at all of our events, not as a service provider. They are there as a service provider as well, but they have been with us in our employer lounges as well. So they do employ quite a few people with disability. I don't know what their percentage is, but I think it's well over sort of 10 to 15% on that figure. But interestingly, in our Newcastle event, we do have a couple of the... government organisations coming along, to be with us as well. So, you know, and they do often have... quotas, that they are expected to hit. So it is good to see the government organisations supporting us, as well.

1:22:25 Peter

And of course, one of the things that people often talk about, you know, who are on the NDIS is are, you know, My local area coordinator or my planner or whatever, they don't quite get it. Well, if you're employing people with disabilities, hopefully they're going to get it a little bit more.

1:22:36 Kathryn

Yeah, absolutely. There's no doubt about that.

1:22:40 Peter

Terrific. Well tell us a bit a bit more about the Hunter. So you're on for two days. You're at the event for two days.

1:22:45 Kathryn

Yeah. Look, it is a two day event. There are some things that are only operating on the Friday, though. I'll just, we'll kind of want to put it out there. So for two days, the full Expo is open. Everyone's with us for the full two days. But if you do want to come and see our open employers and open employers are organisations who sort of are not disability specific, if I can put it that way. So all of your, your large organisations and... even smaller ones, who employ, you know, just have a percentage of everyone in their organisations - that's what I mean by an open employer... our employer lounge, where you can meet with those organisations sort of one-on-one and have a conversation, that is only on operating on the Friday. 

And we also have a few workshops. So, again, information about your rights or, you know, how to go about things. We are running a little seminar program. That program is only operating on the Friday. But if you do come along on the Saturday - whilst... there won't be any seminars or our open employers with us, there still will be lots of organisations, to talk to all of our disability employment service providers and our... enterprises and all our government organisations are there for the full two days.

1:23:59 Peter

Particularly good for parents. Parents of kids with disabilities. You know, because one of the things that we often hear about, you know, they worry about what's going to happen to my child, even though there might be an adult when I when I go. And I guess if they can be secured in employment or have a good job to kind of be going to, that kind of takes that little bit of pressure away.

1:24:17 Kathryn

Yeah, absolutely. We had, as I said, in Adelaide, we had a lot of the schoolkids coming through, and quite a few parents were with them. And, you know, parents play a really critical role in... helping, you know, for all of us, our job as parents is to, you know, provide the life skills, and the, you know, the capability with our, in our own children of, you know, How do you do your tax?... How do you, you know, apply for a Medicare card?... How do you get a job?... You know, how to write a CV, all of those things. You know, that's... really the parents' role. And it's it's no different for a parent with a disability, with the exception of, you know, there are a few more things that they need to get across and it isn't as easy for them. 

Look, people... you know, there's no point beating around the bush... people with disability are not employed at the rate... that people without disability are. And they often need either accommodations or they need to take a pathway. It's a bit more of a journey... that these kids are on. It's not, you know, straightforward path is often, you know, a couple of little, you know, twists and turns, that they need to go through. But we are seeing a much greater commitment to employ people with disability. 

Actually, in the 2022 census data, there was just the glimmer of hope after sort of being stuck for quite a bit of time, that that rate of people employment did actually go up. Um, a couple of percentage points. It wasn't massive. But we, we are starting to see... it turn around a little bit. So, ou know, it's... you know, we're not going to solve this problem overnight, but we have to all be together and be on this journey, I think, and that's the most important message. Talk to people, get information, understand your rights, understand what your pathway options are, and then you can start making plans.

1:26:10 Peter

A good note to end on Kathryn. Where are you exactly, and how can we find out more?

1:26:14 Kathryn

Okay, so we are at... the Newcastle Entertainment Centre,  in Newcastle. If you just Google the Workability Expo is actually being held as part of the Hunter Disability Expo. It's sort of all one big, massive event. We've joined them in. So if you just Google Hunter Disability Expo, you should find it. Or alternatively, if you Google Workability Expo, you will find us that way as well. So two ways to go.

1:26:40 Peter

Alright. We'll put that information up on our show notes. Kathryn, good luck and it'll be good to catch up with you again in the future. This sounds like a most worthwhile... tour that you're doing - keep up the great work.

1:26:49 Kathryn

Oh, thank you so much. Lovely to chat to you - you and your listeners.

1:26:52 Peter

Kathryn Carey there from the Impact Institute there, to WorkAbility Expo and that hundred disability expo. That's Friday and Saturday next week, the 9th and 10th of May. 

I mentioned during the program great to have people in Tasmania listening in. Got a lovely email from Hannah from Tasmania saying that they love listening to the Link on Print Radio down there. So Hannah, thanks so much for your email and thank you for enjoying the program - Hannah saying particularly loves having Tasmanians or hearing Tasmanians on the show. Or of course Allison Davies, who's a resident Tasmanian, is on the third week of each month, the wonderful... music therapist. So Hannah, again, thanks so much for your email. Love to hear from you and keep enjoying the show. Keep being in touch. If there are things that you don't like about it, let us know. We'd try and make it even better. 

Some birthdays before we go. Before we do that, we'll actually do a couple of quotes. Shall we keep the regular order? Mark, who's our media watcher from New South Wales, has sent this quote through. A number of people have said over the years... Build bridges, not walls. So thanks, Mark for sending that through. And Marika has sent this quote through that says... Your vote counts. Your vote is counted. So thanks to Marika for your quote. 

So birthdays before we go. Nikita Gross having a birthday that a wonderful goalball player. Read a few. That excellent scientist who works in the area of infectious a reader. A big happy birthday to you. Steven Heard having a birthday who has run for politics in the past. So Steven, maybe get back into it. We need some good people in there. So happy birthday to Steven Heard... and Marilyn Mills having a birthday, played blind cricket... well, a number of years ago. I'm sure Marilyn would be very pleased about the way women's blind cricket has developed. And maybe also a little bit envious - understandably so. Happy birthday to you, Marilyn Mills. 

That's it for the program. Thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, as always, thanks so much of yours. Reminding you that the Link is available on your favourite podcast platform. Please spread the word about the program. Tell a few people we'd love to have more listeners. Vicki Cousins is here with Australian Geographic. So if you're listening through 1197 FM Adelaide, keep that radio tuned to that particular station. Vicki is looking very, very happy after the Woodville - West Torrens Eagles beat the Crows last week. Yes. Double thumbs up from Vicki. Be kind to yourselves, be thoughtful and look out for others. All being well, let's link back at the same time next week. On Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network. This is Leisure Link.