Sports and sport physios, new heart drug, retirement living and more

00:31 S1

Hi, I'm Ella Sabljak, bronze medalist with the Aussie Steelers in Paris, and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

00:53 S2

It's just gone 5:00 as we channel by the Chiffons on one fine day. Hope it's a fine day where you are. Maybe we can make the next 90 minutes fine for you. As I welcome you to Leisure Link here on Vision Australia Radio, 1197AM in Adelaide, online at varadio.org through the TuneIn radio app - look for Vision Australia Radio Adelaide... your favourite podcast or streaming service via Radio Digital in Darwin, via Radio Digital in Adelaide or through our friends listening through 103.9, Hope FM in Esperance in Western Australia - and now also on the Australian Disability Media Network, Powered media - p o w e r d dot media. Lesley is also there. Peter Greco saying great to be here. Thanks so much for your company. This program coming to you from Kaurna land.  

Coming to you very shortly, we'll catch up with Ella Sabljak, one of our mighty Steelers and wheelchair rugby team. How did they go in France? We'll find out very, very soon. We'll also catch up with Isabella Ivanchik Holland, who's just won a couple of big awards in the sport of netball. Mandy Mason will join us from Track Australia regarding the unfortunate, disappointing, angering, maddening quotes of Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister, during the week. We'll find out what Mandy thinks. She's got children with Tourette. We'll also catch up with Chelsea Marchetti, our resident physiotherapist. What do physiotherapists do in sporting teams? Aaron Cheer from Guide Dogs SC and NC will join us to talk about World Sight Day and International White Cane Day. 

Mel Ottaway will join us from Resthaven to talk about retirement living. That's been in the news a bit lately. We also catch up with cardiologist doctor David Playford. Some really good news. If you or someone you know may have heart issues, some medication being made available, that could be very, very helpful. And Deborah Sham will join us from rehab employment talking about Mental Health Month and some seminars that you can attend. Your personal invitation is not very far away. 

What a wonderful stylist has joined us now. Australian wheelchair rugby team coming back from Paris with bronze, Ella Sabljak's on the line. Hello. Welcome home and thank you for speaking to us.

03:12 S1

Thanks, Peter. It's good to be home. 

03:15 S2

How do you reflect on your time? I guess you've had a bit of time to kind of kick back and relax and reflect.

03:19 S1

Yeah. I have it was really nice to be home and, you know, reflect on what Paris was and all of the incredible achievements of our, you know, our Steelers and myself, but also our Australian Paralympic team. So it's very nice to be home, be on the couch with my dog and go to the beach and, you know, just enjoy life again.

03:40 S2

For guys, for you, of course. I mean you represented Australia in Tokyo, we all know about Covid etc. but you're playing a different sport.

03:47 S1

Yeah, well I was playing wheelchair basketball, so Tokyo looked a lot different. Felt a lot different. Result was a lot different, in Paris. But yeah, I love basketball. I miss... playing basketball... but I'm very grateful for my opportunities in wheelchair rugby. 

04:05 S2

How did that come about? Did you make that decision? Were you encouraged to, how did that all happen?

04:09 S1

Yeah. Great question. Not, it really happened spontaneously, to be honest. There wasn't anything that I was searching. I was approached to play in our national championships, just in, like a div Condemned to a wheelchair rugby. They had a few players that had pulled out just through illness, and it was on the Gold Coast around the corner from my house, and it just happened that I was available that weekend to, you know, make up numbers. And the coaches were very impressed with, you know, how I was playing, reading space and... being really aggressive with my chair. So they then offered to take me away to Villa, which was a little town in Denmark for a tournament over there. And I literally flew from the Commonwealth Games where we'd won a silver medal in 3X3. Yeah, yeah, literally flew from Birmingham to meet the wheelchair rugby team. So changed sports overnight. 

And yeah, I fell in love with playing the game. I was definitely thrown into the deep end in that transition, and it's just been a whirlwind since then.

05:21 S2

Being aggressive with your chair. That's kind of a rudimentary skill for wheelchair rugby, isn't it? 

05:28 S1

No no, it's a... prerequisite. You've got to be really aggressive with that monster truck of a chair. 

05:33 S2

And you don't like that bit of the game at all, do you?

05:35 S1

Oh, you know, it took a little bit of adjustment for me because basketball was, yeah, the contact was a little bit different. Obviously there was contact, but it was done in a, in ways where there are rules. And I felt like when I came to play wheelchair rugby, there were no rules. Well, that's what it felt like. I soon learned that there were rules, but I thought I just sometimes I felt the hits were a little bit unnecessary. And they, yeah, just went really hard until I figured out that I could do that back to everybody there. So that definitely changed how I played wheelchair rugby.

06:10 S2

Yeah. If you give as good as you take, you don't probably don't get it as much as you want. Or if you don't, if that makes any sense.

06:15 S1

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

06:17 S2

Yeah. So... do you think that's kind of something that might be worked on in the future? You know, sort of transitioning from one sport to the other. I mean, do you reckon a wheelchair rugby player could go to play basketball? Maybe not so much so because the points difference is a bit of a difference, isn't it? 

06:32 S1

Yeah, the points the classification system is a lot different. I mean, you're... like Riley Bird or Chris Bond, even Andrew Edmondson... and I'm trying to get Shayne Graham to come over and play basketball a little bit just for fun. I think they could easily transition over to basketball if they wanted to. I think they might struggle with understanding that there are chair contact rules and you can't go up to somebody. But it's really interesting that you mentioned talent transfer because it is something that you know, is is quite relevant in the Paralympic movement. We've had, you know, Danny Moro go from tennis to like para table tennis. We've had... Amanda Jennings go from kayaking to archery. Now that is a massive change. Yeah. You know, one's a water sport, once's a land sport. And so. 

And then myself, I mean we were the three in Paris. But you know, you've had kind of dawn from equestrian go to go to wheelchair basketball. And it is quite a common thing that you see. But I think in anything, if it wasn't for basketball and me being a wheelchair basketball, I don't think I would be, you know, the wheelchair rugby player that I am today that, you know, we saw in Paris. Yeah, I do I a really, a similar role in basketball and in rugby. So I think that for me was quite an easy transition. And again, it's all based on, you know, if you enjoy the sports and you know what you like and your coordination and all of those things. But I really oversee, you know, you more talent transfers and see what else we can do. Maybe come to... Brisbane, all day. I don't know. Playing table tennis with Danny.

08:20 S2

Okay, well, Danny'll only be about 104 by then. So you could. You could both be playing together. You might be the junior partner, though. Ella. 

S1

Oh, I don't know. I've been speaking to Danny for a long time so I can make fun of our age. Because I'm older than her, and I think she's taking it in good spirit. 

S2

But what an incredible career Danny's had already, and, well, wouldn't it be amazing if she did get to Brisbane in 2032? What about the Games in Paris? I mean, as I said, Tokyo was a, you know, a Covid affected games. Did you enjoy the kind of Paris lifestyle and the Paris village, etc.?

08:53 S1

Oh oui oui, I loved Paris. Honestly, Paris reinvigorated me and my love for playing sport and the it kind of made it... you know, why... we do what we do. And it was incredible to play in such iconic venues. I know our wheelchair rugby... then you'd be pushed out on the first day, and they'd built this stadium at the end of the Champs de Mars, and there was a man on a horse statue. Couldn't tell you what statue it was, but they'd built the stadium around this statue. Every time we left the session, the Eiffel Tower was right there. So we... got to see the Eiffel Tower every day. And, yeah, it was so wonderful. Even once we finished competing, going and seeing Paris and... exploring and eating all the food and and whatnot. 

But yeah, the the village experience as well was amazing. Kate and the team and brought you Kate, Bridie, Timmy and and Ben, all the team that delivered how Australian Paralympic team did such an incredible job of bringing us together and creating the Australian Paralympic team culture that I think, you know, it's going to be the new norm moving forward of how how close our Australian Paralympic team is and how it feels. So, so.

10:19 S2

So the photography day, and you brought a little bit home, didn't you?

10:22 S1

Oh sure did. They definitely have a bit of the Eiffel Tower in the medals.

10:26 S2

How cool is that!

10:26 S1

It's so cool. And I think it's a really good talking point for some people because they're like, what do you mean? That's the the Eiffel Tower? Well, you know, they were renovating the tower and they recycled the metal and they put it in the metals and yeah, it's really cool.

10:43 S2

Fantastic. What about as far as... I guess the future goes? Do you stick with... sounds like you've got to be playing basketball kind of, you know, more casually if you like. Do you... stick with the wheelchair rugby and wheelchair to before coming to, I know that, you know, the status itself sets very high standards and obviously very high goals. I mean, coming off a world championships in 2022.

11:06 S1

Yeah. Playing for the Steelers. I like it is it is really high standards. And they, that is the culture, in the school is, you know, they they demand excellence and they have such a rich program of being successful. And so it is really, you know, infatuating you want to be involved because it is so powerful and people are there because they love parasport, they love wheelchair rugby, they love the athletes. It's not, you know, sometimes it's a bit tokenistic. You want to, you know, hang around, take the, you know, ride the highs. But people have been genuinely because they love the sport. They love the team. 

But for me personally like, yeah, I'm, I really just want to play for fun and enjoy why we play sport. You know, I think we lose sight of that often in High Performance. You're so focused on being the best, you lose sight of having fun, and I really want to get back to that. Maybe, you know, this year will be the time that I can explore that. That's fun again. And also provide more opportunities for women and girls to play wheelchair basketball. I think it is something that we need to invest a lot of time and effort into in that space, as well as wheelchair rugby. Like we are developing our own women's wheelchair rugby team, so we are in that process, you know, with wheelchair Rugby Australia. Having those conversations and you know, shea grains really leading the way in that space and which is amazing. So it is exciting to be a part of and and to play and witness. So yeah.

12:43 S2

Now obviously you were in Paris at the time, but we had tremendous coverage by channel nine here in Australia, not just of the rugby, but the whole games... as an entirety. It would be interesting to see in the next year or two what sort of comes out of it in terms of kids that might have been watching people like you play and what they turn to, you know, people with disabilities, what kind of sports they turn to if there is an increase in participation, because that's one of the goals of the 2032 games as well. We spoke to... Jack O'Callahan way back when the, Brisbane was announced, that was one of the things that wasn't just we want to do really well in Brisbane as a high performance team, but we want to get more people involved with the with sport who have disabilities.

13:25 S1

Yeah, exactly. And I think we've already seen a huge growth in people wanting to be involved in Paris or since the games, because of the incredible coverage that channel nine has done and our Paralympic Paralympics Australia, they have developed this program called the Start Line, which is, you know, if you're interested in Paralympic sport, but you don't know where to go. You go to the start line and it can help you. It can help you, you know, navigate your way through this weird and wonderful world of Paralympic sport and put you in the right direction. 

And yeah, like I said, we've already seen an increase in people, the intern set. So yeah, I am in awe of what's happened and I'm really excited to see what comes from it as well. Like the talent we find. I'm excited and we kind of find, you know, another another Tristan Knowles or a Riley bad or, you know, Lauren Parker. Ellie Cole excited. Are we going to find some someone through these? Because they've watched the game.

14:33 S2

Well, it's good. We have many athletes I speak to wherever, who sort of say, Ah, you know, I saw, you know, games in Sydney when I was young or, you know, I went to Sydney and saw someone playing. I thought, well, I can do that as well. So you can never underestimate the influence that, you know, tapping into someone's subliminal, all those years later can have.

14:54 S1

Yeah, absolutely. Like, I never I never would have thought that I would be a Paralympian and be able to play basketball. But if it wasn't for, you know, Sydney in our backyard, that would, you know, they were promoting the Games because it was here. I wouldn't have, you know, figured out who I was. And, you know, I'd found my idol. I wanted to be like her because she was a weapon and such a trailblazer. That and if it wasn't for her and seeing her play well, you know, race in a remarkable way, I would probably have never seen myself as a Paralympian and being here today. So, yeah, it's so powerful.

15:32 S2

Hey, it is Ella, before you go. Happy birthday for Thursday.

15:37 S1

Thank you. Thank you very much.

15:38 S2

Terrific. It's been great catching up with you again. Congratulations. The bronze medal and more importantly, the way you conduct yourself is... exemplary. So we wish you well. I'm sure we'll speak again in the future, but thanks for spending a bit of time with us today. Yeah.

15:53 S1

Thank you so much. I appreciate it, Peter.

15:56 S2

That's one of the members of the Steelers who have come back to Australia with the bronze medal from Paris with the Eiffel Tower. It was said to be a great time for our netballers, with their big awards night last week. Let's speak to one of the real winners. Isabella. Isabella. Love to catch up with you again. Yes. Lovely.

16:19 S3

Great to hear from you again, Peter.

16:21 S2

Now, where you were at the awards night. How did you go?

16:24 S3

Yeah, went really well. I won the Most Valuable Player award last week, which was fantastic. And I'm still over the moon.

16:34 S2

Terrific. Did you think you had a good season?

16:36 S3

I feel like I have, and especially with the off season, I really wanted to do better and with C6 as well, although we didn't play in the grand final, but I feel like I've had a pretty good season.

16:49 S2

Yeah, of course, earlier in the year or not so long ago, you played in the Marie Little Shield, the national tournament for netballers as well.

16:55 S3

Yes, I have. So last month I went to Brisbane with the rugby team to compete in the Marie Little Shield competition, and came home with a bronze medal again this year.

17:06 S2

And I think that Tricia Crockford, I think you were pretty pleased with that. As in, as a team.

17:11 S3

Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's it's great to bring home a medal. It would have been great to bring home a gold, but we've definitely improved on last year. So I'm really happy.

17:21 S2

And what about what you won at that particular event.

17:24 S3

So I won the Most Valuable Player award, which I wasn't really expecting. I've always been told that players who play in the gold medal match win the award, but when my name was called, I was thinking, Why me? So yeah, I would take the award.

17:43 S2

Yeah, I'm sure you will. That's a great point, though, isn't it? Because I guess often with awards like this, they kind of come from the top 1 or 2 teams. I mean, we did finish third, which is very credible, but that that kind of even makes your, um, victory or your winning this award even more meritorious, I think.

17:58 S3

Yeah, exactly. Because like, I was like saying, Oh, I thought it goes to playing in the gold medal match, but apparently it goes to everyone, which I didn't think I was going to get. I feel like there were players out there that deserved it more than me. But you know, I'm really happy to win the award regardless.

18:18 S2

Well, that's what we love about you, Isabella. You're modest, which is great. So congratulations on that. Very gracious, which is tremendous. What about you? You had a great year, both at the C6 level and with the rubies. Why? Why so I mean, I know you're only 26 or so, so you're still improving as a player even though you've been playing a while. Why did you think you had such a good season?

18:39 S3

I just feel like I improved as a player. You know, I'm leading the team more and I'm being more patient and not losing my calls. So I just felt like I've improved as a player, I've matured as a player. And Yeah, I feel like, you know, like what I said with the C6, although my team semaphore didn't make the grand final, like, you know, we still are winners and, you know, we will just come back stronger next season.

19:08 S2

[?Semaphore] had a great time over the last few years in C6, so it's kind of like kind of a little bit of a year where you didn't make the grand final because you've really dominated in recent years, haven't you?

19:18 S3

Yeah, and it's really devastating because on the Thursday night we played against Tango. Unfortunately, one of my teammates had dislocated her wrist while my other teammate was still recovering from an ankle injury. So to have six fit players on the court, on the court and one player recovering, it's a great effort. But to go down by one, it hurts. I did have I did have the chance to score to put the game into extra time, but my shot didn't go through. And yeah, unfortunately it is what it is. And yeah credit to Matrix. They they held on, and yeah, they deserved a grand final spot.

20:02 S2

Oh that's very gracious that because that was one of the things from the marathon championships wasn't it. That the local finalists were kind of interrupted or had to be adjusted. So you had had to play on the Thursday night and then the winner played in the grand final. That was after coming back from a trip to Brisbane.

20:18 S3

Yes. So because we lost to Tango, we had, we sort of had one day to recover, which isn't great. But yeah, played against Matrix and yeah, unfortunately didn't get the result that we wanted.

20:33 S2

Now, Isabella, you touched on the fact that you've become a better leader. I know when we've chatted to Tricia Crockford, your coach of the rubies, over the time. Tricia has often talked about your leadership. Where does that come from? And is that something that you that you work on? 

20:48 S3

Yeah, I.ould s wy that. And also when I watch, like the Suncorp Super Netball or the Australian Diamonds play. I always look up to the captains there and how they talk to their team and how they direct instructions to them, so I actually follow, yeah, just pretty much the Thunderbirds and the diamonds. Really.

21:06 S2

Okay, so I guess they're good role models for you.

21:09 S3

Yeah, exactly.

21:10 S2

Speak about that. I think there's some Thunderbirds come out and train with the Rubies at one stage.

21:15 S3

Yes. That was, oh, a few weeks ago. Had Adelaide Thunderbirds players, Taylor Williams and Shamera Sterling came and trained with us, and they actually... answered some of our questions that we asked them, such as How important is sleep?

21:32 S2

Okay, and how important is sleep? 

21:34 S3

Oh, very important to get eight hours of sleep.

21:38 S2

Yeah. How do you go with that?

21:40 S3

I manage well. I get my eight hours of sleep.

21:43 S2

Oh. Well done. Well, that's probably why you're an elite athlete. And also I think that... Chelsea Randall from the Adelaide Crows, The AFLW side also came out and talked to you guys. 

21:55 S3

Yes she did.And a couple of Crows AFLW players. They also came and we had a kick around with the footy which was really great. And Chelsea Randall just told us to smile.

22:06 S2

Yeah. Yeah. Tricia Crawford told us that story that when someone has a go at you, you just smile at them. That's the best response you can give. 

22:12 S3

Yeah. And also do the work we know. So we took that advice over in Brisbane. And same with just smile.

22:20 S2

What's that like, meeting people like Chelsea and Taylor from the Thunderbirds etcetera. What's that like? Because you know you're playing at the top level in your division if you like. What's it like meeting elite athletes that say, play for the Crows or, you know, the Thunderbirds or the Diamonds?

22:35 S3

They are just inspiring women. Like, I don't compare myself to the Thunderbirds or the AFLW you know, I just play netball and Chelsea and Taylor, they're... incredible role models.

22:50 S2

Well, you played it very, very well, Isabella, so don't don't worry about that. You're right at the top of your game. What about now then? Of course, the C6 competition is over. There's a bit of a gap before it resumes in the beginning of 2025, at the beginning of 2025, but maybe in April 2025. What do you do in the off season? 

23:08 S3

Personally, for me, I do Parkrun so I can run or walk five kilometres, so that's been fun. I've been doing that since last year, so that's every Saturday. And I also help out, you know, to volunteer and what have you.

23:23 S2

Oh, terrific. That keeps you pretty fit in the running.

23:26 S3

Yeah it does. And I also do some Bullets. Well, which starts next Tuesday, which I'm really excited.

23:32 S2

All right. Who do you play for there?

23:34 S3

I play for Semaphore.

23:35 S2

Are you staying with the same team there? And that kind of helps, you know, keep your form for the winter season. 

23:41 S3

Yeah, pretty much. It's basically social netball, but I still have fun.

23:44 S2

And also, I guess you're honing your skills as well?

23:47 S3

Yeah, absolutely.

23:48 S2

And what about away from netball? I know in the past you've worked. Yet you're still working? 

23:52 S3

Yeah, still working, still doing. Tuesdays and Thursdays. Been at Pro Park for seven years. Six years, sorry. And I love it.

24:01 S2

Oh, terrific. Of course. That's, Sonya Santikos' company, isn't it?

24:05 S3

Yes. It is.

24:06 S2

Sonya, who coached the the Wood Panthers. It's still... coaching the Wood's Panthers. 

24:11 S3

No, she retired a couple of years ago. That's right. She's enjoying her weekends now.

24:15 S2

Yeah, well, she certainly gave it a long, a long time, and, you know, gave it all her heart. So, we loved catching up with Sonya, so. Well, that's great that, she's earning her, and enjoying her retirement.

24:27 S3

Yeah, absolutely.

24:28 S2

It's the better. What do you get for your award? Like what? You get a trophy. What do you actually get?

24:32 S3

Yeah. So I have got a, so I won a trophy like glass trophy that says Most Valuable Player. And my name.

24:42 S2

Terrific. Well, that'd be a pretty proud place in your house, I would think.

24:46 S3

Oh, absolutely. It's in them somewhere.

24:49 S2

All right. And was any of your family there to see you win the award?

24:53 S3

No. It was just me. But Tricia and the team manager, Sam Locke, did message mum, and she was pretty happy, yes.

25:03 S2

I think that's lovely. Isabella. Congratulations. You've had a great year. You're only 26, so I've got a feeling there's even better things to come just before you go. And I don't want to get you into trouble. It's kind of a little bit sad, isn't it? In a sense that, there's not an Australian netball team for you to kind of... aspire to get to, or at least on a more regular basis?

25:23 S3

Yeah, it is quite sad. I really hope Netball Australia does put an Australian netball team in because, you know, at the Murray Shield you play against all the states and they want to be part of the Australian team and follow their dreams by representing their country. I really hope they do something like this and like that in the near future, but we'll just wait and see.

25:46 S2

I think there has been a team in the past, hasn't there? But they play very spasmodically very, very irregularly. Yeah. All right. Well we might take it under that and see if there might be any plans in place. Isabella. Again, congratulations. Enjoy the moment. I look forward to the next time we speak.

26:02 S3

No worries Peter, thank you. And thank you so much for your support over the past.

26:06 S2

It is my... pleasure. I'm privileged to be able to speak to people like you.

26:10 S3

Absolutely. Thank you. Peter.

26:12 S2

That's Isabella Ivancic-Holland, this year's winner of the MVP at the Shield. And also taking out the competition at the netball awards night in South Australia, held just like last week.

26:28 S4

Hi, I'm Lauren Parker. World champion Paratriathlete. And you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia radio network.

26:40 S2

Well, sure, many would have caught up with news regarding the Prime Minister's comment during Question Time during the week. Let's speak about it with the President of Tourette Australia. Mandy Maysey, love to talk to you and thanks so much for your time. 

S5

Thanks for having me again. 

S2

Now, what was your initial reaction? And then maybe after a few days of kind of digesting it, what's your thoughts?

27:01 S5

Yeah. So initially when I first heard it, I was fairly incredulous. And there's that whole stunned, Did the Prime Minister of Australia just say that on television in front of the nation? And then just that whole, Wow, the impacts of that and how much that's going to affect it was, I was really quite angry and I was upset on behalf of the Tourette syndrome community. It's a horrible thing, Tourette's. It's really debilitating. It's very misunderstood. It's not funded by the, you know, by the government in any way, shape or form really. The impacts on family is terrible, and to have it used in such a a flippant way and to have it used as an insult, you know, so almost like, you know, it's something to be ashamed of, it's something other. 

And then so I thought, Oh, maybe I'm overreacting, maybe it's me. So I spoke to several people in the Tourette syndrome community, and I've spoken to my... and my adult son about it, and everybody is exactly the same. They're all absolutely furious about it. And then 24 hours went, and he had issued the apology, which seemed a bit wishy washy, to be completely honest with you. I think if you're going to apologise to people, you need to apologise to people, not make a sweeping statement or make a statement in Parliament. 

But the more I heard the sound bites yesterday because I had heard it several times, um, when I spoke to other people and and the more I heard it, the more angry I got. I mean, it is just the fact that if we do not hold our Prime Minister to a higher standard, I understand the man's human, and I understand that he didn't mean to say it, but the fact that it came to his mind to use it as an insult just means that that's the way people view Tourette's. That's, you know, that's how he views it. It is an insult to say, well, do you have Tourette's? Is to him an insult, which is the same as saying to somebody, oh, have you got epilepsy? Do you know what I mean? He would not in a million years say that across the floor, um, in Parliament. So why use Tourette's? 

So, yeah, the more I thought about it, the more angry I got. And... the more time has passed, and I'm... kind of, you know, taking a few deep breaths and realising that, you know, if he's not willing to, you know, come to the table and have a meeting and help us help him understand the condition better, there's not a lot we can do other than just keep fighting at the coalface, trying to get recognition for a condition that... has some really, really serious statistics behind it. The suicide rate in people with Tourette's is horrible. The quality of life for people with Tourette's is quite distressing. And we've got a report coming out later in the year, done by Telethon Kids. It's called Impact for Tourette's, and it's a big survey that was done, and the statistics are coming out later in the year, and it's going to make a huge splash when we see the impact and the actual real life implications of what Tourette's actually is. And I'm hoping that maybe the government might take note at that point.

30:23 S2

The timing was terrible, wasn't I mean, there's been a lot of discussion in recent weeks. Well, for the last ten years, I guess, regarding the NDIS and disability and the kind of trading treating that sector better? Yeah. So the timing couldn't have been worse. 

30:37 S5

It really couldn't. And it's quite interesting because it's incredibly difficult to get NDIS with Tourette's because it's not necessarily a recognised condition on its own. We like to say, well, you haven't done enough. You haven't had enough treatment. You haven't had deep brain stimulation. And it's just like, well, deep, deep brain stimulation is a $45,000 out of pocket expense if you've got insurance. They only do a couple of operations a year on people with Tourette's. And it's not necessarily effective. They don't know until they do it on the person as to whether it's going to make a difference. So to insist that you can't have NDIS unless you've had invasive brain surgery is ridiculous. 

And then only something like 26% of people that actually take medication for Tourette's syndrome actually see benefits. A 26%. That's nothing, is it? So we haven't done enough to qualify for treatment and to qualify for NDIS is absolutely ridiculous, though it's not necessarily considered a disability. And yet Mr. Albanese referred to it as a disability when he made his apology, so he should make his mind up.

31:44 S2

Yeah, I mean, the other thing was that I don't know if you noticed, Mandy, that when he made the comment, some people laughed. Now, I don't know who they were. I guess they know who they were. But, you know, that kind of sort of adds to the whole thing, doesn't it? That there was a well, that was it was like a schoolboy type of dig, wasn't it? And, you know, that's almost being sexist, but you know what I mean? 

32:05 S5

Yeah. No, it is, it absolutely is. And that is almost a systemic thing, isn't it. The fact that he thought it was okay to use it, people laughed at it in Parliament. And if you know, if they're not going to view Tourette's as a serious condition, what hope have we got for the rest of society? So you know that used as a joke, as a putdown in Parliament will be used in a playground. It will be used in the workplace, it will be used in a tavern, it will be used across Australia. You know, I can I can fully see it. I absolutely can fully see it. When somebody chops off, somebody go me, me, me. Have you got Tourette's? You know, and it's just like, if it's all right for a Mr. Albanese, it's all right for us. Do you know what I mean?

32:52 S2

And you can tell me... well, you can't tell me, I'm sure, but how long does it take to reverse that sort of attitude?

32:57 S5

Well, exactly. Here's the thing. I've been I've been president of Tourette Syndrome Association for I think it's five years now, and it's a daily slog to try and get the recognition. My oldest son, Connor, has done so much advocacy work. He does interviews. He he gets out there, he works with the community. Um, he's on the Tourette Syndrome Association committee to try and make things better. And he feels that every single minute of advocacy work that he has done for the Tourette syndrome community in the last 5 or 6 years is worth nothing. Now in that one statement that was made in Parliament.

33:37 S2

It's a very powerful way to put it, isn't it? You know, all the good work can be undone with something like this or something like that.

33:43 S5

And, and I know people have said, Oh, you need a thicker skin. You need to, you know, it's just a joke. No it wasn't. He used it as an insult. He wasn't joking. It was used as an insult to try and be cutting... and it really has it set us back years.

33:58 S2

And it's the sort of thing that, you know, when they talk about we should work together bipartisan. You know, we need to kind of unite the nation. This is the sort of stuff that, you know, doesn't alienate people and alienate the wrong type of people, in the sense that it's very difficult to recover from.

34:16 S5

Definitely, definitely. And I, you know, we want to have faith in our leaders. We want to be fighting for us. And it really doesn't feel like it really doesn't feel like the government has our back at the moment. And I'm not being political in that. If it was either side that have made had, would have made a comment like that. It is so disrespectful to the disabled people in Australia. Any disabled person. It's an ableist comment. Ableism, even casual ableism, you know, is so damaging and it's so hard to be disabled in Australia. Was it just hard to be disabled? But it's hard to be disabled in Australia. The feeling of otherness that people have, you know, we should... that we shouldn't feel like lesser members of the community just because we have a disability.

35:06 S2

It's a very powerful point. And, you know, you touched on it at the beginning. I mean, a person with Tourette's is probably going to be offended by it. But the first thing I kind of thought of was people like you, the parents, the families of people that, and how they would feel.

35:19 S5

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I see the... impacts of bullying, that... what it does to my kids. I have to tell my kids, you know, every morning I've got... my one, my youngest one is still at school and, you know, they get up in the morning and they, I don't want to go. People bully me. I don't want to go. And so, you know, after everything that happened with Mr. Albanese, you know, there's that people are going to start, you know, it's because Travis is out there and it's in the news again this week, blah, blah, blah... you know, people are going to be picking on me again. And it's a daily struggle to get them through the door of the school before they face the bullying. 

And so the crestfallen look that I get on their faces on a regular basis anyway, because I'm a mum and I'm there, I'm, you know, I'm supposed to protect them from, you know, all this and I can't protect them, especially not when the Prime minister of the country is using them as an insult.

36:16 S2

Yeah, it wasn't even a joke, was it? I mean, you know, if it was a joke, it wasn't funny, but it wasn't put down. But that's the thing. It was an insult. That's how it was meant.

36:24 S5

He used it to make him feel small and stupid, is what? Why he used it and how he used it with the blah babble babble babble babble.

36:34 S2

Yeah, yeah, I thought that was that was kind of, uh, pardon the pun, but that's all that was adding insult to injury.

36:40 S5

Yeah, absolutely. And so he. Yeah, I really think I would like to sit down with him. I would like to meet, I would like to meet with him and have him meet people in the community. I think he needs to see the real faces and actually get a real understanding of what it's like to have Tourette's, to live with Tourette's, to be the family member of somebody that is so, um, affected by it and not supported in really in any way by the government. So yeah, I think it would be really good and I'd love to educate him. Yeah.

37:13 S2

All right. Well, you've given them the invitation. Let's hope he RSVP. Maybe if people want to find out more. You've got a website where good information can be accessed.

37:21 S5

We do? Absolutely. It's tourette.org.au ...

37:25 S2

All right. We'll put that up on our Facebook page as well. Mandy, thank you for speaking to us. I'm sure we'll catch up later in the year when the results of that come out. Maybe that message will be even more stark in terms of what was said and how it was taken. So stand by for more by the sound of it.

37:40 S5

Lovely. Thank you. Thanks for talking to me.

37:42 S2

And so Mandy. Amazing there. The President for Tourette Australia - tourette.org.au ... We'll put that information up on our Facebook page. Time to catch up with our resident physiotherapist from the Flipper Academy, Chelsea Marchetti. Chelsea. Great to catch up again.

38:01 S6

Great to catch up. Peter, how are you going?

38:03 S2

I'm very well and I'm a little bit late, in fact a lot late. But happy birthday for last month.

38:08 S6

Oh thank you, thank you. Yes, that did feel like it was a while ago. It was only... yeah, a few weeks ago, but well, yeah. Always nice to have a birthday.

38:18 S2

Yeah, well, it beats not having them. Sure. So let me give you the tip.

38:21 S6

That's very true. That is very true.

38:24 S2

I chose, we've had the Olympics, the Paralympics, we've had the footy finals, rugby league finals, all that sort of stuff. What about the role of a physio in a in a team environment and a team sport? Yeah.

38:35 S6

Yeah. Physios play a massive role in team sport, especially at the professional level in all those areas that you just listed off. So a really good, good area, one that... I'll have to just preface Peter is not one that I have a lot of experience with, but a lot that I know enough about it. I have colleagues that work in different... sporting teams that I can talk to a little bit about what they've told me, but I will just put a little bit of a disclaimer in there. It's not my full... scope, but it is something that I can do. 

39:09 S2

A very brief summary on what their main roles are, what tell us about what their main roles are. And actually, just before you do that, I'm kind of thinking maybe it's kind of, I don't know, the glamorous or the high profile lifestyle of it, but I would say to be a very difficult thing to get into as a... profession. I mean, not just being a physio because that's hard enough as, as we know, because he's talked about that before. But to get to, you know, be the physiotherapist for an AFL club or a, you know, the Australian cricket team, that'd be very highly sought after, I'd imagine.

39:35 S6

Absolutely. It's super, super competitive. A lot of physios work their entire career to be able to work for an AFL team, unlike the Adelaide Crows or Port Adelaide, or any of the teams that are in those levels of, athletic levels. A lot of those teams also... require an extra level of study to be able to... be in those sports, working with those teams. So more often than not, from what I understand, physios that have their postgraduate sports and musculoskeletal qualification are often the ones that, well, they won't even really look at anyone that's got anything lower than that. So, it is quite tricky. You do need to do those extra levels of study and be connected within the sport from quite a young age, to be able to kind of work your way through and get enough experience at, I guess, the grassroots level to then be able to prove prove yourself at the top level, because...

40:31 S2

I guess that field, if you like, all those fields, they're so competitive out there. And you know, we hear about the one percenters, I mean, you know, a good physio or a not so good physio can kind of be one of the one percenters perhaps.

40:42 S6

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It is, it's quite tricky and it's quite stressful as well. So you want to have your best, best physios there. And the physios that are really passionate about doing it are always the best ones as well. Because it is quite a challenging lifestyle as you'd imagine. Like a lot of sports teams don't just stay in one spot, a lot of weekend work, so it's always the ones that are really dedicated and do those extra levels of study. And also a lot of physios that... engage in research, often end up working with sporting teams as well, because sporting teams want to be able to get the first kind of first hand at the newest research to be able to help their players so that often can sometimes play a bit of a role in the physios that work with those teams, also.

41:22 S2

There will be that kind of having that edge over your opponents, wouldn't there? That's what we all we for us as a team.

41:28 S6

Yeah, absolutely. Like they want those first those first hand at the data. So to be able to... apply and implement it where they can. So having physios that are working in sports research and sports science is definitely really beneficial to a high level sporting team.

41:42 S2

And I guess we're maybe getting almost a bit off track here. But because it's such big business and I'm talking about, you know, the sponsorship dollar, the... dollar, as far as broadcast rights go, it's such big business that there'd be a lot of research going on in that sort of field as well. So there'd be a lot to sort of tap into, but a lot to get your head around. 

42:00 S6

Absolutely. And I think the other thing sometimes can be trying to find what needs to be researched, um, and where to kind of go with it as well, because sometimes it can be a bit like everything's kind of always been brought to you, but there is always new ways of doing things. So try to get think of the new edge, or think of the thing that's missing in certain sports, or why players are getting injured, or why there are extra injuries in these areas of sport or in this demographic versus not. And how that can best support the team is a really good way to get through, and it's really helpful for the sporting team. 

A lot of which I believe is happening within the AFLW... area because there is a, you know, AFL for women is relatively new. And we are seeing a few injuries in those areas. So there is a lot of research being put into that, which I think is really great because we really want women to stay in sport and have longevity in sport, so we can increase our research and sample sizes to be more around women playing those heavy contact sports, we can definitely help them prevent injury, which would be really, really awesome. 

43:06 S2

So I guess there's kind of two parts of the job if you like. One is to prevent injuries. And the other part is to kind of get the athlete to, well, treat and recover from the injuries as quick and as well as possible.

43:16 S6

Yeah, definitely. There's definitely two sides. The whole... process and I'd imagine would be around trying to get nice and strong and fit to make sure that there's injury prevention does occur and that their body is as ready as they can be for the grueling season ahead, or event ahead that's going to help them hold up and not get injured. And then on the other side of that, trying to get back to sport within the quickest time frame possible without... re-injuring yourself as well. So it is quite a stressful and, quite... intense role being a physio for a high level sporting team. But I'd imagine you'd get a lot of gain out of it when you see some good results. 

43:53 S2

Yeah, well I guess, you know, a Premiership would be kind of the ultimate, as far as the success goes. What about as far as on the day goes? I mean, there'd be so much pressure as far as, you know, making a quick decision. Are they right to go back on? Are they not? You know, how bad is it. What can we do to kind of... cover it for now? Those sort of things. Like, there'd be no time to think, although you need to think...

44:14 S6

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where that maturity comes in. So that's where a lot of those high level clubs will take, you know, physios that have been out for an extended amount of time because their clinical judgement is a lot. Not always, but you'd imagine given the amount of experience they've had, they'd have better clinical judgement, which means they can rely on their decisions a bit better. They're a bit more confident on making decisions and therefore can make decisions relatively quickly. They're not always the best decisions. Everyone kind of makes mistakes, but that is a key clinical thing that that physios that work in sporting teams have to be able to do is make that call as to whether or not a player can go back on or not, and what level of injury that they could suspect has occurred in that quick time frame. 

Because, you know, often they're not... when you're working in the clinic, someone comes in, they've had something for, you know, five, six weeks or three weeks or two weeks, but it's not necessarily at that point in time. Whereas when you're in the high level sports teams, when you're in the AFL, you're watching that happen in real time. You've got to try to. You got to understand how that contact happened, what happened, and then correlate that really quickly to how the player is presenting to you and then work out well. How bad is the injury? Can we get them back on? Can we not with the added pressure of the club probably wanting you to put that really great player on. 

So there's a lot of technical ability to it. And that's why we they want, you know, the top, top level of physios to be there and be able to do those decisions and make those calls and not necessarily in the physio area.

45:34 S2

But we see that quite recent years, haven't we, with the doctors looking at replays of head knocks etc. and saying, Well, yes, that's a serious head knock, he better come off and do the HIA, whereas other times it might be, Oh no, I think that's okay, he can stay on. Yeah. That's where the technology and the replays of instances can play such an important part in, as I say, a fairly new thing. 

45:58 S6

Yeah, definitely. And I think, physios have a pretty big role in concussion as well. Okay. I don't know what it is like at the at the top, top level. I'd imagine the doctors would be the the primary ones there. But when you look at grassroots level, like when I used to do stuff for, you know, the amateur AFL league, you know, you don't have a doctor with you. So you kind of got to upskill on the general screening for concussion risk and then trying to make the treatment like those calls where you can, you know, as a very junior physio and, you know, just trying to understand, well, what are the basic assessments that you can follow to understand how bad that this concussion could be, or whether it is a concussion, and then make that call as to whether or not they're being sent off. 

So it can be, it is something that we do have a little bit of a hand in at all sporting levels, which is yeah, it's really good clinical skill for us to learn and know about.

46:49 S2

And at the lower levels, don't have the luxury of the replay as well, of course, because a lot of guys wouldn't have that sort of facility. Chelsea, what about in terms of working again at the elite level? You're probably working within a team of, uh, of medical professions. It might be doctors and other sort of allied health professionals in a high level sporting team.

47:07 S6

Yeah, yeah, I'd imagine you'd have your doctors, your high performance coaches, your strength and conditioning coaches. I don't know if every team has an exercise physiologist, but I would imagine that that would be implemented in some capacity, depending on the AFL team and who they're linked with. So you are working with a multi-day team and trying to get the best out of the players within your scope and leaning on them when things are outside your scope, just like in all areas of physio, really, you're never really working just with physios, you're always working with other health professionals, which is also a really great tool, especially if you're looking at things like really serious injuries and return to sport. 

Having a doctor on site could be really helpful to understand some of those properties and have access to resources like scans and things that we don't always get in the clinic. So yeah, definitely a really good skill and something that would be involved in that line of physio.

48:00 S2

Great insight. Now, how are things going at the Flipper Academy into October now? So I guess things are probably going to get a bit busier now with the. I always say this, but with the weather may be getting better. And of course you're expanding your services or going, okay.

48:13 S6

Yeah, Flipper's going really good. I don't know if I said this last month, but we are doing some new locations in October, so we've got Tuesday afternoons at Marion Aquatic Center. We're going to do some more Tuesday nights at um, CHC at Mile End, and we're going to do Thursday mornings at Clovercrest Swim. So that's on top of what we already do. So now we should have classes running every day of the week, which will except Fridays, which will be really, really awesome and really keen to see in October. And as the weather gets warmer, starting to get more kids out so that they can be nice and safe in the water, which is really awesome. So going really, really well at Flipper Academy.

48:50 S2

Now, how can we find you?

48:52 S6

You can head over to our website WWW dot Flipper Academy dot com dot AU. Or you can go on to our Instagram which is the academy, one word, and Facebook is the same.

49:01 S2

Terrific. Well, I know you're busy. You've just told us. So we'll let you get back to your hard working lifestyle. Thanks for giving us a bit of an insight into what that is all about. And. Well, I'll never be a physiotherapist, but it does sound pretty stressful, so I might pass on that role, but probably that maybe you shouldn't comment on this, but they're probably pretty well paid, I'd imagine.

49:20 S6

Yeah, I can't comment on that. I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure, but all right.

49:26 S2

Well, I'm sure they weren't it. Okay. Thanks, Chelsea.

49:30 S6

Thanks, Peter. See you next month.

49:32 S2

Chelsea Marchetti there from the Flipper Academy. Talk about lots of things. Physiotherapy. If there's something you'd like Chelsea to talk about, then get in touch and we'll ask Chelsea to talk about it.

49:43 S7

Keep in touch with Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide on 1190 7 a.m..

49:49 S2

During the week we had World Sight Day celebrated in style by Guide Dogs SA, then say let's chat about it with their CEO. Aaron Chia, our great to catch up again. 

S8

Hi Peter. Great to catch up with you too. Just a little visit to government House. Yes. You know, it's it's tough, isn't it? But we had a fantastic event at government House and again, very thankful that our patron, the Governor, has invited us to to celebrate World Sight Day at Government House. 

50:16 S2

I guess it's great, you know, obviously, you know, having a bit of fun. The fact that such a great surrounding, a grand surrounding, if I may say. But I guess it's also good for clients and to supporters and, um, members of Guide Dogs to kind of, you know, be acknowledged for, for their work as well.

50:31 S8

Yeah, absolutely. You know, the great thing about World Sight Day is that it allows guide dogs to to really, you know, show off all the services we provide other than guide dogs. Today we had two clients, um, come through from our vision services area. Um, we had corporate clients who had done the human guide training that we do for corporate clients, and we also had our famous dogs there. Of course, to celebrate the day and also to hear directly from the people that have benefited from the services or our current sort of dog handlers.

51:03 S2

It's a great thing. I noticed in your media release that you talked about human guides, and they're so important. They're important obviously, to, you know, support people who might be blind or have low vision, but also to kind of do it the right way.

51:15 S8

Yeah. You know, I'm very excited about him. I got him and guide training and initially human guide training started off internally because I felt as though, you know, we, um, all the staff at Guide Dogs really needed to be able to engage with someone with low vision or blindness and, and provide assistance if and when required and do it right the right way and do it professionally. But human guide training that we now provide to the corporates in an extended way. Beyond that, two of our inaugural um Access Advocate award winners, Keolis Downer, who run the train network and and Adelaide Fringe. They've now actually included that into their their staff induction process. 

And so all staff actually go through human guide training. And for those who are uninitiated, I think basically it teaches a sighted person how to actually properly guide someone with low vision and blindness to help them go to where they need to go to. I guess, you know, and get around the corners and steps and, you know, unfamiliar territory.

52:16 S2

I don't know how the actual word guide technique came about, but it's it's kind of almost perfect, isn't it, because you're holding on to the person's elbow. If you're a person who's blind or they're holding on to your elbow, if you're the guide and you kind of half a step ahead of them. So, you know, we can feel the guides kind of going up a step or going down a step going round a corner. So as I say, it's almost a foolproof method of doing it.

52:37 S8

Yes, yes. And and the other positive part about it is that now the person can also communicate. Yeah. And also, you know, sort of like tell you to look out for that sort of uneven pavement that's coming up or whatnot. But, you know, today I shared with the crowd that for me opened my mind to a couple of other things. One, how grateful I was that I had my such. I think you know, and being grateful for what side I had. It also made me realize how challenging it is for someone with that low vision or blindness. And, and then that... really sort of... hit it home for me in terms of the work we do at Garfield.

53:14 S2

Yeah. I don't think it matters kind of what walk of life you're in, but until you kind of think about the things you have got, you kind of maybe don't appreciate them, appreciate them as much as you should. So. Absolutely. That's a really powerful message, Aaron. One of the other great things about a day like World Side Day that Guide Dogs did was kind of recognise... you kind of touched on this, but what, recognise some of the organisations that are doing the right thing - because, I mean, we're all pretty quick to complain or say, Why does this happen? Or This could be done better, but it's kind of also nice to use the carrot rather than the stick.

53:44 S8

Oh, absolutely. You know, they I mentioned Carol Danner and our other fringe. You know, they brought it into their whole deduction process. But, you know, in terms of the organisations that, you know, there's a whole list of them that, you know, off the top of my head, there's the Torrance Transit, there's a, you know, community Support SA. Some of the pubs have gone into Duke of Brunswick or been involved a lot of the councils. Victor Harbour, North Haven, Saint Peter's, you know, West Windsor, West Torrance, I mean, Marion Council, I could name them, and we're starting to get people in aged care doing the course as well. Lutheran Homes have actually participated in as part of our thing. 

And, of course, you know, a lot of our community in the aged care environment, and it certainly will be very helpful if... staff and, and... knew how to do human judgment... guiding.

54:34 S2

Yeah. That's a great I think just a bit about... Careless and also Adelaide Fringe kind of. Were they nominated. How did that get arrived at? 

54:42 S8

Well, Council actually, we approached them to say, Look, you know, you're doing... transport,  in that light. What do you know about accessibility? And how can we help? They had an accessibility program. And so we started talking about inducting a team of their people to the human guide training and, uh, straight away that that sort of, like, really... went down well with that team. And management decided that that was something that they wanted the whole organisation to be inducted into. So from that perspective, I think their commitment to accessibility and the commitment to, you know, looking after our community... was to be applauded and therefore they want to go winners. 

Adelaide Fringe, you know, approached us and and they said that, you know, they wanted to be an accessible festival. And so we started talking about them and got training there as well. And we also look after all their accessibility assessments on site with all their shows and stuff as well.

55:38 S2

And we speak to Rebecca Young in particular, from Access to Arts on a regular basis. And the arts have been really, really good as far as that accessibility thing goes. And I mean, you know, I guess a they're all in the people business and they're all in a sense, they're in a sort of business as well. And if you can make yourself more accessible to a percentage of the population that might not have been accessible, then that's going to help your bottom line. That's going to help, you know, more people sitting on seats in your theatre, et cetera, et cetera.

56:04 S8

That's right, that's right. And accessibility, you know, extend extends beyond low vision. It extends to anyone with any disability or access issue.

56:13 S2

And I guess it's also a good thing for an organisation like Guide Dogs isn't it, to kind of recognise it. In a sense, you're kind of throwing down the gauntlet to other organisations or to other businesses. If these guys can do it, then you know you can too.

56:27 S8

That's absolutely right. You know, the more we get the message out there that we sighted, people actually have a huge responsibility to make sure that our environments suit what they suit. People don't have to have the luck that we have in terms of our aside, you know, if they just need to do their bit in terms of... educating the people around them.

56:49 S2

I forgot to mention earlier when we were chatting, I mean, as a person who is blind, I mean, I'm sure you and many of the people listening in would have had stories of you waiting on a street corner, or you're waiting at a bus stop and people with the very best intentions literally, bodily, you grabbed you and want to put you on the bus or help you across the road. And you don't really want to go there, but they want to help you, so they do it. But I guess that's the sort of thing that, you know, doing that human guide training and kind of avoid or or limit, which is kind of good for everyone. 

57:19 S8

Exactly right. You know, you you learn how to engage. You learn how to communicate. You definitely don't grab anyone. And, yeah, we try to sort of make sure that message is out there every time we have a World Sight Day or International Guide Dogs and things like that.

57:32 S2

And I guess it goes alongside things like, you know, the rights of people with dog guides, etc. to get into cabs, to get access to premises. It's kind of the... broader message of the rights of people with disabilities that can kind of be amplified and exampled on a day like World Sight Day or International White Cane Day, etc.. 

57:52 S8

You're right. Right. I think, you know, accessibility is such... a major challenge. I think we've spoken about this before, Peter, that, you know, it should not be a problem these days. But still, you know, we still have access issues in terms of, you know, ride share and taxis or, you know, restaurants sometimes as well still. But the more we get the message out there, I mean, can you imagine if you know, everyone in their workplace needs to have this sort of... training and actually understand the needs of... the low vision community, then it would be a very different sort of like perception. And that when people get into restaurants or cabs and things...

58:28 S2

Well, it just makes people think just a little bit. I mean, it's not a, you know, I mean, those of us that kind of live or work in the industry kind of think, well, of course, but I guess if you're not involved in a direct way, then then maybe, you know, you kind of need to be educated in a, in a very positive sort of way. Yes. Absolutely fantastic. Aaron, thanks for sharing that with us. I know you've had a busy week, so I appreciate it. Happy belated Woodside Day to all those who took part and to all those people involved with Guide Dogs on Thursday. Hope you had a great day and thanks for spending a bit of time with us.

58:56 S8

Thanks again, Peter and thanks again for your support.

58:58 S2

That's Aaron Chia, just returned from Government House, if you don't mind! Aaron's the CEO for Guide Dogs SA-NT.

59:12 S9

Come on in. We open our doors to people we trust and care about. And for over 85 years, South Australians have been opening their doors to Resthaven. In turn, we've been opening doors to an easier, better life at home from personal care to help with the shopping and social outings, you'll welcome the care that Resthaven brings.

59:33 S2

Tried to catch up with our friends from Resthaven. We've been speaking to them for many, many years. First time on the program is the Executive Manager for retirement, Living and Community Services at Resthaven Mount Ottoway. Well, great to meet you and thank you for your time.

59:47 S10

Great to meet you, Peter. Thank you for having me.

59:50 S2

Tell us a bit about your role then. Community services and retirement living. I guess they're two distinct things.

59:55 S10

Absolutely. I think I have a wonderful role at Resthaven. The role combines community services - which is providing services within people's homes. So we provide anything from low level services, which may be just a little bit of help around the house with some domestic services... shopping, assisting with... getting to appointments. Or it could be high level services all the way through to complex nursing palliative care services. We also run a range of programs within our centers, which include allied health services, respite Services, social programs. 

So range is fairly diverse and we probably service around 8000 people at any given time. So wonderful service. And the other side of the the part that I look after is retirement living, which is housing for older people. And currently we provide houses for 408 dwellings across Adelaide in a variety of different retirement villages.

1:01:05 S2

And we've spoken about community service on the program a fair bit over the years, and retirement living has been in the news a fair bit in the last little while, and I want to get too much into it in a controversial stance. But what about retirement living? When should people think about retirement living? I guess the other thing is, maybe when you think about it, things might not always turn out the way they do. So you can be the best planned person in the world, but sometimes other stuff gets in the way.

1:01:30 S10

Look, absolutely. Retirement living is an interesting proposition. It's not something that is for everyone, but it is really something that does add value to an older person as they age. You are really looking at it's not a property transaction. It is so much more than that. I probably would look at it about really making a lifestyle decision though, as an older person. If you're looking at moving into retirement living, it is living in a community environment. So there is support and it's really about being able to access things as you need them. 

So I guess also it provides that safety net from the perspective, you know, we have a range of different individuals living within our villages. Some of them are still working part time all the way up to people, you know, 100 years of age. So such a diverse group of individuals. And some people are very involved within the village. Some people are not. So it's really about individual choice.

1:02:41 S2

What about things like coming and going when you choose things like having friends over kids, grandkids over that sort of thing?

1:02:47 S10

Absolutely. I think from the perspective, it is your home and we absolutely want people to view it, that it is their home. It is slightly different from a standard property transaction because we are governed under what's called the retirement villages legislation of South Australia. And so it means that you are actually purchasing a license to occupy. So it means from the perspective that it is slightly different to a usual property transaction. So people need to think of it slightly differently. And I think that's where some of the confusion does come into the market because it isn't a standard property transaction. 

However, we try and make our contracts really simple so people can understand what they're signing up for. I think from the perspective, it does provide an older person with a number of protections. So, Peter, you asked the question about, you know, can people have people come and visit? Absolutely, no different from how you would if you were living in your own home. But probably some of the differences that there are is the fact that you can't sublet the property, so you can't suddenly end up with a house in a retirement village turning into an Airbnb, or it can't be rented to someone who is, say, for example, a university student. And so you are really buying into something with similar people, I guess is probably the approach that I would put to it.

1:04:28 S2

I know obviously you're speaking on behalf of Resthaven. So these kind of differences and nuances call them what you like. They're well explained before someone goes into it. You know, it's not you know, it's not a conventional property transaction.

1:04:41 S10

Absolutely. I think from the perspective, you know, from a resthaven perspective, we really, um, encourage the individual to have a conversation with their loved ones as well. So everyone is really aware of, of what they're doing, because often that's where the confusion comes in. An older person might make a decision in regards to what they want to do. And then further down the track, our family, are involved and they don't necessarily understand what's happened. At Resthaven we have a range of different options for older people in regards to our contracts. 

We also include some rental options as well... so to provide some, some options in uh for affordable housing, accommodation and things. So it also depends on the village and what the, the different, um, environments are being offered.

1:05:37 S2

And what about in terms of the geographical location, Mel? Because I guess, you know, people probably I'm guessing and I'm assuming maybe I shouldn't, but you maybe want to stay close to where you've been shopping centres, your church, if you like, your friends, the pub, whatever, you probably want to stay in a location that you've been at for a while. So how has that kind of determined look?

1:05:59 S10

Absolutely. And I think from the perspective, you know, ideally retirement villages should be positioned close to conveniences. So you want to make sure that there is access to public transport reasonably close in regards to access to things like a local shopping centre and things, because it is independent living. And so we have a range of people within our villages who are still driving and are still getting out and about, but we also have a number of people who are no longer driving. And so being close to facilities is really important as well.

1:06:37 S2

And I choose where I want to live. Or do you say, this is what we've got, you know, kind of take it or leave it, or go on the waiting list if something becomes available in X suburb? How does that work?

1:06:47 S10

So absolutely. We want people to choose where they live because it's really important to be able to, um, make that decision and make that connection around what's important to you. And so, you know, we have residents who will be on our waiting list for a particular village because that's where they absolutely want to live. We will also have residents who may be on the list for several villages because they're not so attached to a specific area, but want to be able to... look at moving into a village environment. So again, it's really an individual choice.

1:07:29 S2

And what about in terms of the financial transaction if you like. Is it different for different locations. And we're going around Australia on the Vision Australia radio network. So we should point out that having a base in South Australia, uh, is it different for different locations and I guess maybe even different in different states. So what you're saying might be relevant in South Australia if someone's listening in Victoria or Queensland, that might not necessarily be the case.

1:07:54 S10

Look, absolutely - I think that's where some of the challenge does come into it, is the fact that there is different legislation in different states and there is different restrictions and rules, I guess, put on retirement living depending on the state that someone does live in. Same with our villages. From the perspective, we do not have the same standard contract across all of our villages from the perspective because they are all quite different. And so it really depends on the village and what is offered within the village. And as I said, we sit down with an individual and really take them through the contract so they are really aware of what they are signing up for. 

I think the thing also to understand in in South Australia, there is a number of also safety nets for an older person. So if someone does sign up to looking at moving into a retirement village, there is a number of clauses that they can get out of them if they don't want to. So even from the perspective, if someone does move into a retirement village and they decide actually this isn't quite for me, they can move out within 90 days and only generally replaced with a rental type accommodation for the time that they are there. And so the South Australian legislation does provide a number of safeguards for older people, which is wonderful.

1:09:27 S2

So much more we could have covered. We have to leave that for another time. We'll have to leave that when you come back a second time. Well, so a very good effort first up. Well done. Now if people do want to find out more, of course they can go to the Resthaven website - resthaven.asn.au ... Is there a phone number people can call as well? 

1:09:43 S10

Absolutely. That's also on our website.

1:09:45 S2

Well, good to talk to you. Appreciate that. So it's obviously a topic that is pretty hard to cover in ten minutes. You've done a great job. But as I say, I hope we can catch up with you again in the future because I'm sure this topic is only going to grow bigger and bigger as time goes on.

1:09:58 S10

Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me, Peter.

1:10:00 S2

Mel Ottaway there. Mel is the executive manager for community services and retirement living at Resthaven. We'll put all that information up on our Facebook page on the East Australia Network through your favourite podcast service on 1197AM in Adelaide. You're listening to Leisure Link. 

For some good news, particularly for people with heart issues and maybe their family and friends as well, with a medication being put on the PBS. Tell us more about it. We've got leading cardiologist, Professor David Playford. David, if I might call you back to thank you for your time and welcome. 

1:10:32 S11

Oh, thank you very much. And thanks for having me on the show.

1:10:36 S2

Tell us about this, then. It's quite good news. Well, it's very good news. And, gee, to reading the information that was sent through, what, about 100,000 people a year have a heart attack?

1:10:45 S11

Well, that's right, actually, the, yeah, cardiovascular disease accounts for 12% of the total disease burden in Australia. And in fact, deaths from heart attack is the second most common cause of death in Australia. So it is indeed a big problem.

1:10:57 S2

And how would this medication or this medication being put on the PBS help? 

1:11:02 S11

Yes. So this is very, very exciting for us, actually, because now we have another treatment that we can give to our patients that are at high risk. So it's really intended to be given to people who already have had a cardiovascular event of some sort. And so people who already have what we call a residual risk, in other words, that they've had a cardiac, they've got known heart disease of some form and they've still got a high triglyceride count now. A triglyceride is one of the fats in the blood that increases risk of heart attacks. It's not the only one, but it's an important one. 

And so there was a study that was performed with this medication which is called EPA. And... this study was called the Reduce-it study. And that found that in, in this type of patient who has residual risk as well as a high triglyceride level, there was a 25% reduction of the number of heart attack events. And that's that's actually a pretty exciting result, to be honest with you. And that was the basis by which the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme decided to list this medication. You know, I should also add that, you know, what we normally would recommend is that this is given along with, you know, careful attention to diet, exercise, lifestyle, just looking after yourself in general.

1:12:16 S2

So I'm just going to ask you about that because I know that, you know, a hike or, you know, a number of people have heart attacks or a second heart attack, if you like, after the first. Yeah. And, you know, I guess I was going to ask you whether that is just being unlucky or perhaps some of the issues that could be addressed aren't addressed. 

1:12:32 S11

Yeah. Look, I think that's right. There's it's a complex area. I'm sure you can guess, there's lots of things here. I mean, we... the first thing we do is apart from from treating the heart attack, we like to lower cholesterol as low as we possibly can get it nowadays. And, you know, we, we try to get people on the medication called statins, which are... the, I suppose, the cornerstone of treatment of lowering cholesterol. Then we often add in another cholesterol medication to help get the cholesterol down as low as we can. But yeah, often there's other things that are going on at the same time. 

And... I know patients don't like to be on too many medications, but sometimes to really lower the risk as much as we possibly can, we need to add in at least 1 or 2 more things to get them to the level where that we minimise the chance of a future heart attack. And so this medication is not intended to be given on its own like no other treatment. This is given in addition to the other treatments we would give for preventing heart attacks. 

1:13:28 S2

Now, I guess a lot of people are going to say, What's the name of it and what is it? That's Vazkepa. How do I say that... Vazkepa?

1:13:34 S11

Yeah, well, Vaz-keeper you can say if you like, because it's a keeper.

1:13:37 S2

Because one of the things is, I guess there'd be people that are on it that are maybe paying for it with full price. Are they? Or is that just...

1:13:46 S11

Yeah. Look, I think there's an important point is only just actually... become available in Australia, outside of the PBS. And the PBS indication came very quickly because of the benefits in reducing cardiovascular risk. The PBS saw this as important. So there'd be very few people who would have been paying for it privately. It's now now that it's PBS listed for that indication, then... you know, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme will actually pay for this. 

And this is an important opportunity for people who are particularly who are outside the metropolitan area to say, go to your GP, you know, have a checkup and make sure if you've if you've got known cardiovascular disease, you had a previous heart attack, then ask your GP to do a blood test and check whether you've got a high triglyceride level or not. And if it is up, then you'd be the perfect person to be considered for the use of Vazkepa.

1:14:36 S2

Okay, so I guess that's an important point also to make, David, that if you have had (quote unquote) a heart issue before, if your triglyceride levels are okay, then probably this isn't going to help you.

1:14:47 S11

Well, it's possible that it would still help, because the because the benefit is outside of what your triglyceride level is. So the study Reduce-it showed that the benefit was maintained whatever your triglyceride level. But the actual indication that is paid for by the government is a triglyceride between 1.7 and 5.6. So, you know, if your triglyceride level is lower than that. It's at 1.2. Then, you know there may still be benefit of using it, but it's just that it wouldn't be covered by the PBS. You'd have to pay for it privately. 

1:15:17 S2

OK Doctor, before you leave this, I know that you've been involved with the studies regarding breathlessness. Is that kind of generally around heart disease, or can people be breathless for other reasons other than a heart issue?

1:15:29 S11

You know, thank you for asking. Yes, I have been. I've got a particular interest in breathlessness. And breathlessness has lots of different causes. You're quite right. And there's a big range, but heart disease is an important part of it. So there's a range of heart diseases, including heart failure, you know, valvular heart disease, things like aortic stenosis or mitral valve disease. And... there's there's other things like pulmonary hypertension, lung disease. It's quite a broad range of things. And it's really what we like to do in... evaluating somebody with breathlessness, is take a very broad approach first and not assume that it's hard to your lungs or something else like that. 

We we like to, you know, consider all considerable possibilities. You know, it's quite common that people who are breathless have more than one cause for being breathless. So it's not just usually a single thing, and it's a scary thing.

1:16:15 S2

I don't think being breathless, I mean, after climbing stairs or going for a bit of a run. If you're breathless, it takes a while to recover, but I guess if it's a bit more serious than that, then that would be quite scary for a person to experience it. It is.

1:16:27 S11

And one of the things with breathlessness is a lot of people assume that it's okay to be breathless when you're getting older, but actually that's not the case. You know, breathlessness is is usually an abnormal symptom. Obviously just exercising, you're breathing harder - that's not what we mean when we say breathlessness. Breathlessness is a pathological thing related to disease of some sort. And so just getting older itself is not actually something that that should be associated with breathlessness. And a lot of people decrease their level of exercise to fit with breathlessness. 

In other words, that they because breathlessness is an uncomfortable symptom, they slow down, they do less and so that they don't get breathless. So sometimes we have to be careful about the way we ask about breathlessness. People don't necessarily think that that's what the problem is. They just think, oh, I'm getting older. I've slowed down a bit, but actually the problem is that they're breathless and they need to be investigated.

1:17:18 S2

Yeah, that would almost be counterproductive to kind of slow down, wouldn't it? Because isn't it part of the benefits of doing, you know, reasonably vigorous exercise is to get a bit breathless and then to recover from that.

1:17:28 S11

Yes, but but that's, that's kind of the expected... increase in breathing that happens with exercise but not it's not pathological. Breath okay. It's not disease breathlessness. It's just exercise related.

1:17:40 S2

Fascinating. So getting back to our original topic, David. So if people are in that area that you spoke about, perhaps if they've had heart issues in the past and I guess most of them would be under cardiologists, but you say maybe people who perhaps don't get to see the cardiologist as often if they're perhaps not in the metropolitan area. Certainly a good relationship with your GP would be in order. 

1:18:00 S11

Yeah. That's right. And the last thing we probably should mention briefly is that this is this medication is very well tolerated. There's a couple of things that that that if you're asking about side effects, which is obviously an important question everyone should ask about medications, that there is a tiny increase in mild bleeding, not major bleeding, but mild bleeding like skin bruising. That sort of thing can happen a little bit more. And there's also a very small signal of um, of rhythm abnormalities. But... it's very, it actually turns out the signal is extremely small and not associated with any increased risk. 

So, you know, except for those two things that obviously need to be considered and just checked with your GP, this medication is actually super well tolerated. And it has such a decrease risk of of cardiovascular events that the benefits outweigh any small risks.

1:18:50 S2

You know, 25% is certainly not an insignificant number. That's right. Yeah, that's [?Kappa Kappa].

1:18:55 S11

That's the one.

1:18:56 S2

Terrific. So great to talk to you. I really appreciate that. I've enjoyed and I'm sure many people have got much from it. So thank you for that. Wish you good work in the future. Thank you.

1:19:03 S11

It's a pleasure being here. Thanks for the invitation.

1:19:05 S2

It's Professor David Playford, their cardiologist, speaking about the drug just recently been made available on the PBS Vazkepa. 

Woo hoo! A lot of focus on mental health, particularly for this month of October. And rehab management doing plenty about it. A chance for you to get involved as well. Let's chat about it with the manager for Psychological Services. Rehab management. Deborah Shand. Deb, great to catch up again. Thanks for your time.

1:19:31 S12

No problem at all. Peter. Happy to be here.

1:19:34 S2

And yes, and last Thursday was World Mental Health Day. So we're, a happy day to you about that. Just about these events that you're hosting - gee, I mean, we've chosen you to speak to. But you - as in rehab management - have some great guests along the way. 

1:19:45 S12

We're having some great guests along the way. Yeah, there's lots happening this month. So at Rehab Management, we have a webinar series every year for October for Mental Health Month, and we like to talk about a range of different topics. There can be things that are particularly relevant to whatever's happening in the world. This month theme is let's talk about it. So we're focusing on talking about individuals personal stories or being open to talking about mental health in general.

1:20:20 S2

And you're covering all sorts of topics. I'm thinking about, you know, people who might be, say, recovering from things like spinal cord injuries. 

1:20:27 S12

Yeah. So the focus will be on... mental health. But also, you know, the fact that any kind of physical difficulties or injuries can lead to what we call secondary psychological injuries. So if you've got chronic pain or you haven't been able to function like normal for a while, that can also or that can lead to mental health difficulties.

1:20:55 S2

Now you've got a number of webinars happening throughout the month. You had one on Thursday. What's coming up from now on?

1:21:00 S12

So on Tuesday the 15th we have, the topic is Paralysis: a Story of Depression and Spinal Cord Injury. So that is from one of our... fantastic supporters. It is by Doctor Dinesh, and he has a really interesting background. Very, very smart individual with lots of different degrees. And he was the first individual with paralysis that... became a doctor. So he'll be talking about his journey through the challenges of spinal cord injury and the severe depression that came with that. So that will be a personal story and how depression can feel even more paralysing than a physical injury... nd talking about the hardships that he faced there. So that's on Tuesday. 

And then on Thursday the 17th, I will be talking, and the topic that I'll be talking about is Let's Talk About Mental Health, for the Let's Talk About It theme this year. So I'll be speaking about the difficulties that some people might have accessing mental health treatment. Lots of stigma still attached to mental health and seeking about treatment... the barriers that people may have and the importance of accessing support... and the benefits that it can have on improving people's mental health.

1:22:34 S2

Fantastic. So what's the kind of format, Deb, you speak and then can people kind of interact with you as well?

1:22:39 S12

Yes they can. So there are questions and answers at the end. So there'll be a chat throughout. And people can add in some questions on the Chat if they want. And we have an individual kind of emcee in the talks, so they can ask the questions at the end, or people can ask them themselves if they feel comfortable doing that.

1:23:03 S2

Deb, you talked about stigma. I mean, here we are, 2024. Do you think there's still a lot of stigma around mental health? And more importantly, are we better at talking about it? I mean, you're talking about Let's Talk About It. Are we better than we were in the past? 

1:23:13 S12

We are a lot better than we were in the past, but it's still there. The, those kind of ideas that people, you know, the Shoulds. I should be able to overcome it myself. I shouldn't need to talk to somebody else. They might be seen as a character flaw or weakness, where if you had a physical injury, you wouldn't feel like you could fix a broken leg yourself, you wouldn't hesitate to see someone and you wouldn't worry about other people judging you. 

So there is some stigma, but I think we've come a really long way, and Covid was interesting in that it gave people a bit of a window or insight into what it may feel like to have depression. If, you know, being closed within four walls and not being able to go out much and not having a routine or a schedule. I'm certainly dropped some people's mood. And it may have given people that have never experienced any kind of mental health concerns before a little window or some insight into what that might be like.

1:24:25 S2

I know one of the great things that rehab management do is try and is actually not just try, but actually get people back to work. And I guess a lot of this kind of thing is also aimed at employers or potential employers. 

1:24:37 S12

Yes. So our topics are generally for anyone. So they do tend to have an employment angle since that's our specialty at rehab management... but also for anyone. So it could be for employers. It can be for employees, individuals, for... anyone. 

1:24:57 S2

Really? Fantastic. And you talked about Doctor Dinesh - spoke to him a few weeks ago, and he was talking about the fact that trying to get employers more aware of what people with disabilities can do. And, you know, Come on, give us a chance to employ us. Yeah, that lived experience, you know, someone that's kind of been through it, talking about it is such a much more powerful message. 

1:25:17 S12

Definitely. Yeah. You know, being able to see what someone has overcome, like you said, what they are able to do with a disability that they're, you know, that there's advantages to hiring people with a disability, that everyone has their own unique skill set that doesn't disappear because you have a disability, but yet overcoming the hurdles that might come if some people have preconceived ideas about or focusing on what someone isn't able to do as opposed to what they can do.

1:25:50 S2

Yeah, I'm not sure... in the week I think it was the Commonwealth Bank, one of their reports talking about the fact that there are still employers saying both skilled and unskilled jobs. There's lots out here. We're looking for people kind of our message of, I won't speak for you, but my message is if you're an employer, give a person with a disability, go. You won't regret it.

1:26:10 S12

Absolutely. You know, it should be about the skill of the individual, their willingness to to learn and to grow within an organisation. It shouldn't be about any area that is absent or lacking. You know, someone might not have a lot of experience, but they might be really keen and they could turn out to be the best employer. So one might have a disability and, you know, they're completely able to do their job. It doesn't get in the way at all. Or there's accommodations that can be made so that they're able to, you know, do everything that's needed with the job. 

So being open to hiring people from a different range of backgrounds and experiences, and health issues, whether that's physical or mental health.

1:27:02 S2

Great message. Well, good luck to Dinesh on Tuesday - and Deb, to you on Thursday. I'm sure it'll be very worth getting along to. Now, if people do want to go, we'll put this information up on our Facebook page. But obviously people need to register.

1:27:14 S12

So the website is rehabmanagement.com.au - so it's rehab m a n a g e m e n t dot com dot AU - and on the very first page that you come to, there's a banner across the top there where people can click on... and it talks about their webinars and just says Click here to register for free. They will be online. And yeah, easy to to go straight to. You'll have an invite there. And yeah, we welcome anyone that would like to come along. It's always fantastic. We get some great questions and yeah, please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions, because we always want the talks to be as meaningful as possible for everyone.

1:28:04 S2

Well, Deb, you've got a lovely energy about you, so I'm sure Thursday will be great. Let's hope a lot of people turn out, and I'm sure those that will will get plenty from it. Thanks for spending some time with us.

1:28:13 S12

Thank you so much, Peter. Always lovely to talk to you.

1:28:16 S2

That's Deborah Shand, who's the manager for Psychological Services, Rehab Management. Those webinars coming up this week and a little bit later. But happy Mental Health Day to you. And if you're having some issues, please seek some help because there's lots of help out there. 

Before we wrap up, we've had some really good news and some sad news also to share. I got an email through from Adriana Petrarca. We spoke to Adriana a couple of weeks ago who was in Athens, was coming back to play in Melbourne for her tennis tournament. Great news. Adriana won both her singles matches and took out the title in the Australian Open. So well done Adriana. Great to hear from you. 

Also, some sad news from Erica Webb. Sad to report the passing of Ron Elphick. Spent a lot of time in Adelaide, working at the RCSB as it was then, and also living at the Beyond Blindness accommodation in Gillies Plains, played lawn bowls and played cricket. Really nice guy. Later years were spent in Perth. Sadly, Ronald passed away, late last week, so his funeral will be coming up this Thursday. If you'd like some details, please get in touch. But for those that are new, Ron Elphick, our deepest sympathies to those that did. And Ron Elphick, may you rest in peace. A life well lived, but certainly gone way too soon. 

A couple of quotes before we go. Craig has said a quote in Craig says, Don't wait for your ship to come in. Swim out to it. So that's there. Craig, swim. That's Craig's quote, I should say. So thank you very much for Craig for that. And Ryan has sent a quote through. Ryan says Setting goals is the first step to making change. So thanks very much, Ryan, for your quote. 

Some birthdays before we go. Samantha Schmidt having a birthday. Track and field athlete from Queensland. Happy birthday to you Samantha. Hope you had a great day. Karen Vaughan I'm having a birthday. We spoke to Karen when she was in Paris watching her son Sam play table tennis. So happy birthday to you, Karen. And of course we spoke earlier to Ella Amberjack, our wonderful Aussie Steeler Ella having a birthday later on this week. So Ella, another happy birthday call to you. Someone else having a birthday on the 17th, which you might hold over to Wednesday evening. 

That's it for the program. Thank you, Sam Rickard, for your help. Thank you, Pam Green for yours. If you're listening through 1197AM in Adelaide, coming up very, very shortly, the very talented Vicki Cousins is here with Australian Geographic. In the meantime, reminding you that Leslie is available on your favorite podcast platform. Please tell your friends about it and if you like the show, we've always got room for one more listener or two. And also now available through the Australian Disability Media on Powered Media - p o w e r d - dot media is their website. Be kind to yourselves. Be thoughtful of others all being well. Let's look back at the same time next week. This is Leisure Link on Vision Australia Radio.

1:31:27 UU (THEME)

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