Para sports, games, exercise, expos, and care at both ends of life

00:06 Tahlia

Hi, I'm Tahlia Denham, a finalist in the Victorian Sports Award for my basketball, netball and cricket. And you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Grecoon the Vision Australia Radio network.

00:40 Peter

It's just gone 5:00 as we gather round and I welcome you warmly to lately here on Vision Australia Radio 1197 AM Adelaide, online at VA Radio, Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin through the TuneIn radio app. Look for Vision Australia Radio Adelaide... also your favourite podcast or streaming service. A big cheerio to our friends listening through 103.9 FM in Esperance in Western Australia, also through the Reading Radio Service, and also our great friends and supporters at Disability Media Australia. Find out much more about them, including [?] link Powerd Media. Peter Greco saying wonderful to be here. Thank you so, so much for your company. If you are here for Gather Round, a warm welcome to you. A warm weather as well. This program coming to you from Kaurna Land. 

Very shortly, we'll meet Tahlia Denham, who's the finalist of the Victorian Sports Award. Col Pearse will join us - Paralympic medalist. Victorian Institute of Sport has announced some great news for our future Paralympians, our current Paralympians too, so stay tuned for that. Elphie Coyle will join us, if you're interested in gaming or want to get involved with gaming. And if you have a disability, you can get involved as well. Chelsea Marchetti, our resident physiotherapist from Flipper Academy will join us to talk about aerobic exercise. What is it good for? How can it help? 

Also catch up with Pauline Luchetta, who joined us from an organisation called Everything Disability. They're going around towns and country areas with expos with really good news. So look forward to catching up with Pauline. Sue Dahl will join us from Resthaven - from July 1st some really important changes taking place, particularly if you're receiving a home care package. Be alert. Don't be alarmed. But this is important news that Sue will share with us. We'll also catch up with Doctor Ginni Mansberg, a GP talking about some of the risks of Caesarean sections, but also some things that we can do to prevent anything going wrong. 

The founders have been announced in the Victorian Sports Awards and one of the founders is on the line. Tahlia Denham. Tahlia. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

03:05 Tahlia

Thank you.

03:06 Peter

Now, if the Victorian Sports Award - plural. And that's very much the case for you. You've excelled at not one, not two, but three sports.

03:14 Tahlia

Yeah. That's correct. Yeah.

03:17 Peter

Just about how you got into... well, how you got into the sports. All of them. How'd you get into them?

03:23 Tahlia

Mm, it was basically from a past experience. And just connections through a couple of people I knew, and started doing netball, and then that transitioned into cricket and then that transitioned into basketball. So every opportunity been through word of mouth, through the deaf community.

03:42 Peter

Now, this is for last year as far as the Victorian Sports Awards go. Do you think you had a pretty good year last year, Tahlia?

03:51 Tahlia

I think I did, yeah, I think I felt very lucky to have the teammates I did and the support networks, that I did. So, yeah, I feel very fortunate.

04:01 Peter

You're very modest. Now, where should we start? Should we start with your netball? Your netball achievements?

04:06 Tahlia

Yeah, sure.

04:07 Peter

Tell us how you went last year.

04:09 Tahlia

Yeah. No, I went well. I... started playing at the Australian Deaf Games. I registered... for the men's and women's mixed netball. And it was my first time being there... and we ended up taking home two gold medals, which I felt very lucky being at my first games... with a lot of the girls, they only have achieved silver and bronze - so I felt very lucky. My first year was so successful.

04:35 Peter

Tell us about the Deaf Games then - how big an event is it and where were they held?

04:39 Tahlia

Yeah, so the event is quite large.... it holds... over 15 different sports. And you can only imagine the amount of teams.... so Victoria, New South Wales... those kinds of states. And it was held in Newcastle. So, yeah.

04:58 Peter

And what was that like? First time for you. So we'll talk a bit about your hearing impairment in a second. But I guess just the experience because 15 sports obviously a lot of athletes, a lot of states that it'd be a busy time.

05:11 Tahlia

Yeah. Well it was actually very chaotic. At one point you just say everyone's signing on the streets. It was like a whole new community. It just flooded Newcastle. So yeah, it was great to look around and just see so many people just actively signing to each other. And, you know, it was quite quiet and I'd... a couple of people up there who were of hearing and they had no idea... how to communicate with this. So... it was good for them to learn about a bit of our culture and a bit of our language.

05:44 Peter

You said that you kind of discovered netball or all your sports word of mouth. So what's that like as far as the deaf community goes? Kind of getting the word out there, finding out what's available, that sort of thing. How is that kind of situated?

05:58 Tahlia

Yeah. So we feel very lucky to have deaf Sports Recreation Victoria, who allows us to be linked up with these sports and these activities. I personally played at the Geelong Central Netball Association for ten years... and so this was just a way that I could utilise my skills through the deaf sport pathway.

06:20 Peter

Now, after winning a couple of gold medals, you put them in your bag and then you jumped on a plane.

06:26 Tahlia

I did. I ended up... flying home Saturday morning playing a men's game of cricket... at my local club and then a women's game on the Sunday, and then flew off to... Brisbane on a Monday. So... never stopped.

06:42 Peter

And that was for the National Cricket Inclusion Council or the NCIC?

06:46 Tahlia

Yeah. That's correct.

06:47 Peter

So because I know that...of course, we have the the deaf, the blind and also players with an intellectual disability all playing together. Is that the deaf... women's cricket team? What... kind of well represented as far as Victoria goes.

07:02 Tahlia

Oh, Victoria? Yeah. I feel as though we are quite well represented. We have... quite a few new girls who've jumped on board, at this championship. And we want to continue to grow that... and broaden the amount of people who want to try out for deaf sport... for the cricket. So, yeah.

07:22 Peter

Speaking to some of the other cricketers from the other categories, it seems like Cricket Australia is doing a great job kind of being very supportive of... all, all abilities.

07:33 Tahlia

100%. Mm, they are the backbone of... deaf cricket. And we feel very lucky to be part of it. Yeah.

07:41 Peter

What about... then you went to play basketball?

07:45 Tahlia

I did... I hesitated at first, and I was like, maybe I should try it out, maybe I shouldn't. I haven't played since... primary school or high school, so I was very hesitant... but I initially didn't get selected... and then I stayed back and trained with the coaches on the tryout day, and then they offered me a place on the team. So I felt very lucky, but it was also... a bit of pride to myself that I've done something that not a lot of people would have done.

08:18 Peter

Oh, sorry. Actually, we forgot to mention, or I forgot to ask... how did you go with the cricket team?

08:24 Tahlia

Yeah. Good. We we took out the championship. Clean sweep. So. Very happy. Yes. And... I was also selected in the Australian 11. So I felt very lucky.

08:37 Peter

Yeah, we also in the leadership group.

08:40 Tahlia

I was, I was vice-captain... as my first year in the deaf... cricket community.

08:47 Peter

So that's pretty cool. So you obviously have kind of natural leadership abilities, do you feel?

08:53 Tahlia

I feel I do. And it all stems from my growing up with my parents and my teachers and just doing all my community service as being a junior firefighter as well. So it all stems from how I've been brought up.

09:07 Peter

As a junior firefighter living in Victoria.... I think you're in the Geelong area, aren't you?

09:12 Tahlia

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

09:13 Peter

Kind of got to be at the ready all the time because... you know, sadly the... fires and the... summers in Australia can be a little bit challenging in that area.

09:21 Tahlia

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

09:23 Peter

What made you get into that?

09:25 Tahlia

It was through... a friend at primary school once I moved down from Brisbane... and they started junior firefighting... and we kind of just went through the program together... and we actually competed together during the championships. So, yeah, won quite a few medals there alongside my best friend.

09:46 Peter

So, Talia, are you a Queenslander by birth?

09:49 Tahlia

I am New South Wales, but then... predominantly, Uluru. So... and then... so I've moved a lot, but...

09:58 Peter

Okay. Yeah, I was going to, I was going to say... you know, the Victorians adopted you because they're pretty fierce with their state support, aren't they? The Victorians...

10:06 Tahlia

Yeah. Yes.

10:08 Peter

I'm speaking as a South Australian, so I kind of know what that's like.

10:12 Tahlia

Yeah.

10:14 Peter

So how'd you go with the basketball tournament?

10:16 Tahlia

Yeah. Good... I trained really hard, and... I was very nervous... but we ended up, we got defeated in the first couple games, but then, you know, rebuilt as a team. And we ended up taking silver - which was an honour because the semifinal game, I scored my first ever point... on an international stage. So I felt fantastic. Very lucky.

10:43 Peter

Yeah. Because this is flying for Australia wasn't it?

10:45 Tahlia

It was. Yeah, yeah.

10:47 Peter

So you've played state netball and state cricket and also national basketball.

10:52 Tahlia

Yes that's correct.

10:54 Peter

I think... you've earned your nomination or your finalist... Tahlia.

10:58 Tahlia

Yeah. I feel very, very honoured. Yeah.

11:01 Peter

Well, you certainly earned it. Very much. So... are you happy to tell us a little bit about your hearing impairment and kind of how that all plays out, and what the situation is now?

11:10 Tahlia

Yeah. So it was a gradual loss... since I moved to Queensland... because, you know, you can only imagine, it was so quiet that we had no idea I have hearing loss. And then over the years, it just kind of had a gradual drop to it. And where we're at now, my left is completely gone, but my right ear has... subsided... like, it's stable for the moment. But I've only got about 3% left... so I'm just taking everything I can. Taking, you know, concerts into play. Like I got my death bucket list before I go. Death, mm, so yeah.

11:50 Peter

Did you say concerts?

11:52 Tahlia

Yeah, yeah, I went to Coldplay. So, yeah.

11:56 Peter

You like them? Chris Martin and the team.

11:58 Tahlia

I did, and it's so funny that, like, it was so loud that I actually got to take my hearing aids out and just enjoy.... what? Normal... sound. Yeah.

12:09 Peter

That's amazing. I know with me, I don't talk about me, but with me after I go to a concert, my ears are normally a little bit kind of a different for... you know, 24 or 48 hours afterwards. So I'm not sure I'm... Yeah. I'm not quite calm. Yeah. Okay. I'm no... sure I'm doing my hearing any good. But anyway, you got to enjoy the concerts at the same time. Yeah. And what about things like, say you have hearing aids, but what about things like cochlear implants, etc.?

12:36 Tahlia

Yeah, I have one in my left ear at the moment. But it's just like a learning thing. You've got to retrain your brain, like how to put words together, how to put sounds to make words. So it's a bit of a work in progress at the moment.

12:50 Peter

How do you do that? Do you need support? Do you need help in that area?

12:54 Tahlia

It's more just wearing it, um, over time. So just... yeah, over time, as more and more you wear it, the more your brain will put challenge together.

13:04 Peter

So do you see things like... God knows, an occupational therapist or sort of a health professional in that area as well, an audiologist?

13:13 Tahlia

Mm, my main support is audiology. So all my audiologists do so much work... behind the scenes to keep my hearing aids up to date. But other than that, I think that I'm pretty self-sufficient. I rather do something on my own if I can.

13:28 Peter

No, nothing wrong with that. I think most people with disabilities like to be independent and maybe a little bit stubborn.

13:34 Tahlia

Yeah, I do that.

13:37 Peter

In the nicest possible way, of course.

13:39 Tahlia

Yeah.

13:40 Peter

Tahlia, you're obviously a very talented sportsperson, and you speak really well. You also work, don't you?

13:47 Tahlia

I do, yes.

13:48 Peter

Tell us about the work that you do.

13:50 Tahlia

Mm, yes. So just recently... got a job, through an employment agency. So I'm helping people who have barriers to employment get into work and help them understand, like, what we can do, how we could support them. And I have a few clients who have got hearing loss, and, you know, the comments they make to me, like this week... you know, I feel supported. I feel like I've actually been heard about my hearing loss. I feel like you can support me in a way that no other one, no other person can. So, yeah.

14:23 Peter

And how has that come about in terms of... the opportunity that you've got? Just the way you... sort of carry yourself and the way you speak, etc., that that opportunity came about for you.

14:34 Tahlia

Yeah. I just... applied - at, like, 2 a.m. of the morning. I was just job searching and... one of the career change. I wanted to help people. And I can't be a nurse, but... I decided I'm going to take this job as the next best thing. So yeah. And that's how this opportunity... and they gave me a shot and they said, Yeah, you're hiring us. We think about you, not you're hearing us. So, yeah.

15:00 Peter

And I guess your lived experience as you kind of touched on your lived experience can help when you're helping others find work.

15:07 Tahlia

Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

15:10 Peter

And what about success-wise? I mean, it's pretty tough out there. I always, you know, think, well, we hear about the unemployment rate 4%. But for people with disabilities in general, it's much more difficult to get a job.

15:22 Tahlia

It is... but I think I don't work... with the disability scheme as such. So we were split into two groups, and the one side of my employment agency works with those with more barriers. I only work with a couple barriers. But I think we're doing a really good job. Like, positively every day. Our team's successes. We can hear about it, yeah.

15:47 Peter

Kelly, what about internationally with the cricket? I asked that because a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to, uh, John van Bunge from Western Australia, the coach of the men's team who'd just been to India.

15:58 Tahlia

Yeah.

15:59 Peter

Anything as far as the women's team go for international competition?

16:05 Tahlia

No. From what I've heard, no. But I'm really hoping... to one day represent my country in my predominant sport, cricket. But also, like, if an opportunity arises for any form of, like, Premier Cricket League, then I've always had a go, the first deaf Big Bash player. But we're going to keep working at it. So yeah.

16:27 Peter

So... you play Big Bash.

16:29 Tahlia

No that's... yeah. Let's go.

16:33 Peter

Okay, well, I'll tell you what. You sound like the sort of person that if you put your mind to it, you'll probably get it.

16:40 Tahlia

Yeah.

16:41 Peter

Yeah, well, maybe I can have a word with the Strikers. We could use a good Victorian.

16:46 Tahlia

Yeah. Okay.

16:48 Peter

Yeah, yeah. Congratulations. It's been really good talking to you. Just before you go, you talked about... wanting to help other people. And just the whole time we've spoken, you're very modest and also very conscientious of help or conscious of helping other people. Where does that kind of sense of social justice come from?

17:06 Tahlia

Oh, it just comes from experience. Like I never want to see someone down. So I think that's where maybe just helping people every day, like taking someone's trolley for and putting in the shopping cart, like, trolley bay, like some of the things that I want to do... to help other people - because it only takes one smile and you've made someone's week. So yeah.

17:29 Peter

Well, I think you. Your interview has made everyone's week, that's been lucky enough to listen in. So thank you so, so much for speaking to us. Congratulations again on being a finalist. I wish you well with... the judges. I can't say I'll have a word to them because that'll be bribery, and we'd probably both be in trouble. But... you've got a very, very impressive CV. And I got a funny feeling we're going to speak to you again in the future. So thank you for spending some time with us today.

17:53 Tahlia

Lovely. Thank you so much.

17:55 Peter

That's Tahlia Denham. They're a finalist in this year's Victorian Sports Award, excelling at... basketball, netball, cricket and also being a very good human. 

Well, we've been circumnavigating Australia as... the various states prepare for the Brisbane Games - and in fact, to prepare our Paralympic athletes a little bit more specifically, Victoria launched theirs last week. Let's chat about it with the Paralympic medallist and Commonwealth Games gold medallist Col Pearse. Col, great to catch up again. Thanks for your time.

18:35 Col

Hey mate, how are you?

18:36 Peter

I'm going... well, maybe not as good as you. We'll come to that in a second. But you went to this launch of the Victorian Para Sports Unit. What do you think of it?

18:44 Col

Yeah, it was awesome. It was... a nice little turnout. I'd actually gone for a swim before it, so... my preparation wasn't as good as I wanted it to be, but... it was really nice. It's really good to see... the Victorian Institute of Sport declare such a good initiative leading into the 2032 Paralympic Games, and even more special to be in a room full of previous and current Paralympians.

19:08 Peter

I know you're only a young guy, but you kind of wish... I wish this was around for me even 5 or 6 years ago.

19:14 Col

Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Like when I first joined the Victorian Institute of Sport back in, I want to say I think it was like 2017... they had Paralympic athletes amongst vis, but there was never this much hype around it. So I would have loved for this to be around for myself and other Paralympians growing up. But I think our current job is current Paralympians. Paralympians is leading into the 2032 games, is to inspire and educate and show the country of Australia and more, more in more particular, like the state of Victoria, that there is a pathway for us Paralympic athletes - or, to be more precise, for people with impairments. 

You know, there's kids at school who seven years time, they'll be 21 years of age in their prime, competing in sport and having the effect. Hopefully, like myself and other Paralympians, we can change their perspective now to be able to help them motivate themselves to get to the 2032 Paralympic Games.

20:11 Peter

Great for the individual, I guess greater to the broader message for the community as well.

20:16 Col

Yeah, absolutely. Like we always sort of tend to look up to our Olympic superstars as we totally should. I don't see the problem with it, but I think it's important that people who don't live with, with, live with a disability sort of recognise how great our Paralympians are. And that all starts from the grassroots level, from like myself. When I grew up in the country, I was never really surrounded by other athletes living with an impairment. I was always surrounded by athletes fully able bodied, who were striving to go to the Olympics, who wanted to play in the AFL. So to sort of have this initiative by the Victorian Institute of Sport, it's super special to hopefully see in the next seven years, kids strive and make goals to wanting to go to the Paralympics. 

And more particular, I keep saying it, the 2032 Brisbane Paralympics, like I think we saw the legacy that our Olympians left at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney, but we never really get to hear about the legacy our Paralympians left in the 2000 Sydney Olympics. So leading into the 2032 Olympic Paralympic Games, I think there'll be a lot more exposure for US Paralympians. So some super, super exciting things to come.

21:25 Peter

I guess as athletes. You've got it within you to kind of have the determination, the discipline, all the things that make you an elite athlete. It's kind of good now also to have that infrastructure around you as well.

21:36 Col

Yeah, absolutely. Like to be the best in the world. You have to train like the best in the world, right? Yeah. And so to have the facility like the Victorian Institute of Sport, like this morning I walked in and saw an Olympic gold medalist, Mack Horton, rock up to the gym. He's now retired, but he grew up in the Victorian Institute of Sport. And so to have that facility be provided for athletes with an impairment, but also just for the entire state of Victoria, I should say, as well, it's um, it's what that's striving for. Greatness really is.

22:03 Peter

Well, I guess the number of athletes often say have to move to Canberra, which is a good life experience, but then you're maybe getting out of your home environment, etc.. So to have most capital cities with a unit like this, it's kind of good for that to stay at home and getting, um, you know, that family support as well as the support from the various units?

22:23 Col

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's still a lot of sports which have to commit to moving to the Australian Institute of Sport, which is in Canberra. But I think as as we progress as a country and realise that the there's more to life than just sport, we're sort of realising that, you know, the better athletes are actually the ones who aren't committing their entire lives to just one sport. Don't get me wrong, like there are a lot of athletes who have to make that sacrifice in order to to get to the elite levels. But in my opinion, the best athletes in the world are the ones who are dominating it at the world stage, but also being able to come home and have another lifestyle to live. 

And so I think having the Victorian Institute of Sport is really special because they offer those platforms, they encourage you to study, they encourage you to work while you're an athlete because as an athlete, and I'm sure others can understand, you're not always going to be 110%. You're going to have your bad days. And sometimes those bad days can be on, you know, race day or competition day, which can lead to you not not necessarily achieving that goal. So having a backup plan is super important. And so there's a big team at the VIS who are really big on that as well. 

Because... we sort of see from older generations of athletes that when they commit their entire lives to just a sport, they tend to feel a little bit lost when not achieving that goal or not making a team. So having them, they're super important because, you know, as a swimmer myself, we train a lot of bloody hours a week. So to to know that we have a team supporting us, if you know, the year doesn't go how we want it to go, they're there to help us and get us through that tough time.

24:01 Peter

Yeah, well, we learnt a lot about you during COVID when you were training in the dam. Do you still go... does your memory still get back, go back to those days?

24:11 Col

Oh, jeez. Talk about the good old days, huh?

24:14 Peter

Mmm.

24:15 Col

It's... I think it's something very close to me. It's something I haven't done for a while now. I think, you know, the only reason I was training in the dam was because of the COVID lockdown. And so we haven't had one of those in a long time now. But... definitely over the summer, I go for a swim in a, well, what we call a Peace Aquatics Centre. I, uh, I still got the boys even on my own with the farm dog. Like I go for a swim, but I haven't trained properly in that dam since. Yeah, 2020 COVID lockdown, so...

24:46 Peter

Well, it turned out okay for you - you won medals in prison and you won medals in Tokyo. And also... oh, congratulations on your performance in Paris.

24:54 Col

Yeah, well, it goes back to the old saying: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it doesn't work out for me, I think leading into 2032, I'll have to... go a bit old school with the Rocky-style gym again. And...

25:08 Peter

How was Paris? Because... of course, Tokyo, we all know about that. COVID led up to it of course. You also won the gold at the Commonwealth Games. That's a great achievement too.

25:17 Col

Yeah, yeah... I think Tokyo was interesting because it's a lockdown - there was quite literally no-one there but athletes and Paris essentially felt like my first ever international competition. Don't get me wrong, Commonwealth Games is a super cool experience, but it just wasn't that level of hype compared to a full stadium at the Paralympic Games. So Paris was daunting. You know, you had the whole city alive and full of people from across the world. More importantly, I had my friends and family there, which was a really cool experience, but fantastic where the thing people love to hear the most is like, how... the crowd felt, you know, swimming in front of 14,000 people. 

And when the starters go Take your marks and there's about a second or two of pure silence... it's something I'll never forget. And it's something that feeling of nerves and excitement. I don't think I'll ever be able to reach again. I think competing at the highest level in sport in front of a home or not a home crowd, but in front of a French crowd of 14,000 people. It's you kind of have to experience it. Like you go to the footy and there's always people cheering and yelling at the referee and the umpires and the players. But in swimming, it's a sport where there's a high level of respect for us, so everyone goes silent and when that gun goes off, you just hear a massive WHOOF as you dive in - and once your head goes underwater, you essentially hear nothing again, but the water rushing through your ears. 

And when I talk about the fight or flight mode, that flight mode really kicks in with the adrenaline. So it's... always fun. Like, you... train for, we prepare for it in so many different ways, but it is very nerve-wracking.

26:56 Peter

That is goosebumps stuff. That's amazing. Is that a long second before the gun goes off or does it go in a flash?

27:03 Col

It goes... I wish, I, I wish it went a bit slower, but it all happened so quickly because they've got to stick to a... broadcasting schedule. You know, they don't mess around there. So... you are not necessarily rushed into my sitting room and out onto the pool deck, but they do follow a very strict protocol of everyone has to be on the blocks by this time. Race has to be completed by this time, interview has to be done, etc. etc. So they do rush through it. And that's where as an athlete, you have to be ready and be prepared for it because that's what comes with the job.

27:36 Peter

You talked about your aquatic swimming centre, the aquatic swimming centre. What about the homecoming after Paris? How did it, you, could treat you beautiful.

27:44 Col

I honestly haven't felt that much love after a competition ever before. I think, you know, we always I think having the Woolies commercial, being played throughout the entire Olympic and Paralympic, who I was fortunate enough to be a part of, really helped. But the welcome home was super special. I had a big party on our farm. It was a lot of fun. We had hundreds and hundreds of people walk up to our farm. We had a big bonfire, and it was a night for me to not only see everyone who helped me along the journey, but they're also, you know, kids walk up who wanted to meet me, and I was more than happy to give them the time of day and hang out with them. 

And then further down the track, I go into Echuca for a coffee, and some lady will tap me on the shoulder and say, It's on me, mate. Congratulations. So... it's a pretty cool experience and I don't like to, like, use that too often because I love to give back too. So I... spent pretty much my entire break traveling to all the schools that I possibly could travel to in country Victoria and giving talks on kids about the Paralympics, and that even though I live with a disability on a day to day basis, my life is still awesome. So guys, like... live and work on your dreams to those kids. So that's super special. It's super fun. And I'm back now training. So it's... back to the grind.

29:00 Peter

And you talked about Los Angeles. That's very much on your cards. And I guess you're still very young. Hopefully long term, Brisbane.

29:07 Col

Oh, absolutely. Like LA, I've already got my eyes set on, for I'm only 21 years of age. Yeah, I'll be 25 by LA. So statistically in swimming, that's sort of the male peak. And then 20... not, like 2032 - I'll be 29 years old, which is just wild to think about. But... I'd love, I'd absolutely love nothing more than to make the 2032 Paralympic team. I think I'd... I won't say I'm going to retire because it's obviously if I'm 29 and still the best in the world, there's... no point. Right? But, you know, if I'm 29 years old and still swimming like I am now, I'd love to be able to hang the goggles up on home soil in front of everyone who's ever been there to support me.

29:46 Peter

Carl, you've made our day. You've given us goosebumps. Great talking to you. Congratulations. And well done. Also on the... Victorian Sports Institute, it's going to be a great thing for athletes in time to come. We appreciate you speaking to us. I look forward to the next time we catch up.

30:00 Col

Thanks, Peter. Appreciate it.

30:01 Peter

That's Col Pearse there, of Fair Commonwealth Games gold medallist, Paralympic silver medallist and... ell what a what an engaging and what an inspiring sort of story. And that... story about... when the gun goes off - amazing. Col Pearse was our guest. 

Well, I'm really delighted to welcome to the program, Elphie Coyle, who's the founder and creative director for Lightmare. What a cool name that is. Elphie, great to meet you. Thanks for your time.

30:39 Elphie

Thank you so much, Peter. It's great to be with you.

30:41 Peter

Now, you've been doing this kind of thing since 14.

30:45 Elphie

How I might appear, but... no, we've been going for about 17 years in this particular business. Yeah.

30:50 Peter

What is the business, then, for those who might not be aware?

30:53 Elphie

Yeah. So it's a video game studio. And so we've been making video games for the last 17 years, selling them across the world. And also, s helping those who want to learn how to make video games or learn social skills while they make video games, to be able to connect with us as an academy and actually learn a lot of that stuff.

31:12 Peter

Are you a gamer yourself? That's probably a silly question, isn't it?

31:15 Elphie

I'm a very hardcore gamer, in fact. Yes.

31:18 Peter

You need to be one to kind of know what to design and what to create for people nowadays.

31:23 Elphie

You don't need to actually. So, yeah... game development for, you know, for those who... don't know anything about game development, it's actually a possibility now with something called Vibe Coding that's come out recently. And so that allows anyone who's got an idea for a basic game, at the very least, even some more complex games can create them all using AI - without editing a line of code.

31:45 Peter

We'll come to Vibe Coding in a minute... but... it's a big deal, isn't it? Gaming, I mean, I guess, yeah, depending on what age you are, if it's kind of your thing... but if if it is, it's... a huge thing, isn't it?

31:57 Elphie

It is. The games industry is now bigger than music, movies and books combined. Yeah. Yeah.

32:04 Peter

Wow. That's incredible. Well, I'm not surprised, but at the same time, I am surprised. Well, just a bit about... why you got into it and and kind of what you've developed from there, particularly some of the people that work for you.

32:16 Elphie

Yeah, absolutely. So I got into game development in my early... well, so I started making video games when I was really young, when I was seven years old, and I did pretty well in high school around it all. And, yeah, I just wanted to start businesses up because that was a way that I could, frankly, you know, manage my ADHD at the time... without being diagnosed. But I had a feeling that something was up. I couldn't maintain focus for very long at all. So owning a business is always full of exciting and stressful moments. But yeah, that's... what led me into running, starting this business, having started a few other businesses before that, when I started my first business when I was 14. 

And so, yeah, I've started up Lightmare. I think I was 23, I believe. And so yeah... that was started back in 2007 or the original implementation of that. And then, yeah, we've had... a number of employees come to us through the years, often through our... we had a traineeship program as well that allowed people to learn how to make video games and get qualified. And then we would hire a lot of those people coming away from that. And yeah, a lot of those people actually with us and in the... broader... game development space, actually identify as having a disability. 

Over 30% have some form of disability in the game development space. It tends to really appeal to those on the Spectrum and those who can get really hooked on, you know, hooked on the code and or whatever it is they're working on, whether it's making a 3D model or making some music, it really needs to go deep with it. And we find a lot of people on the Spectrum actually do really well with that.

33:44 Peter

Yeah, I guess you provide the kind of tools, if you like, to be able to do it, but you need much apart from, I guess, the imagination or what you think might be... working for a game to be successful.

33:56 Elphie

Yeah, we definitely point people towards the tool. People can start it today. If they wanted to start a Vibe Coding, they could Google that and start learning it themselves. But we do provide a lot of support in being able to connect with those services and in particular, be able to do it as a fun activity while learning social skills, which really complements well with some people with disabilities who are really into technology. They might have well taken, you know, friendships or just not really, you know, focused on that area of life. 

So we help them, you know, across both, you know, learning, learning how to do better vibe coding and better, you know, playing video games with friends, but learning these social skills at the same time.

34:32 Peter

What specifically is Vibe Coding?

34:34 Elphie

Sure. So Vibe Coding is a new phenomenon that started about two months ago now, and it's basically where people can engage with a code base, or a code base is full of all these lines of text or code. And normally a coder would get in there amongst it and actually edit the different lines, whereas now the AI tools are getting so good that we can basically talk to it like you would talk to another person... either through text typing or through using... Windsurf. There's others, other... tools that you can use that will allow you to do it without even having to, you know... lift a finger on the keyboard. You can just talk to the AI like you would a mate and design the game with that... AI without touching a line of code.

35:17 Peter

I was going to ask you about AI. You preempted my question, kind of. What role is that playing, given the fact it's only been out what, the last couple of years, hasn't it really? Well, it's things like ChatGPT, for example.

35:28 Elphie

Yeah. ChatGPT, the more mainstream kind of AI that everyone relates to now has only been around for a few years, but they've been working on AI for a very long time. It's just taken a while to get to the point where it was actually really useful for most people, and now it is super useful for most people to like, you know, prompt it to make images or to ask it questions. But when you extend that right out, an AI effectively can think even better in code than it would in natural language, because in code there's only so many ways you can do something. Whereas when you're talking to somebody, there's so many different ways you could put it across. 

So what we found is that the AI is actually very good. Some of the AIs in particular... are very good at at understanding code and talking code. And so you can talk to it in natural language, it goes away, makes all the edits in the code base, and then you press Play and, you know, hopefully it works. If it doesn't, you talk to it to fix it.

36:19 Peter

Okay. So it's almost talking its language - or you're talking, it's talking your language.

36:23 Elphie

It's natural. It understands our natural language. And then it converts those instructions into the code itself. Okay. It's able to produce very easily, very well. Because like I said, coding is a very tight language compared to English... for example.

36:39 Peter

There are a number of our listeners may be blind or have low vision. What about if you're talking to it... that's probably not in our wheelhouse, if I could put it that way.

36:47 Elphie

Yeah, absolutely. That's that's definitely front of mind when when I was coming on to this program just to share with everyone about Vibe Coding. It does take a bit to set up, like there is some setup steps for it, so they might need someone to assist them to do that. But that's again something that we we help those that come along to learn, you know, social skills while making games or playing games. We can definitely help them get get it all set up so they can actually be vibe coding pretty soon.... yeah, if not on the first session that they come in, then the next one. So yeah.

37:14 Peter

Do you do it kind of face-to-face or do you need to do it face-to-face? Can you do it...

37:17 Elphie

No, we do it virtually. So we have got some in-person offerings that we've done in the past and that we're doing some more soon in Brisbane, but we actually deliver our program to 99% of Australia. Because it's just done remotely online. And yeah, we have our supervisors there with them. You know, the participants don't have to... do this, but if they want, they can share their screen or their, you know, their video. So there is that face-to-face element. 

Or if the participants a little bit anxious, then they can, you know, just... be on the microphone or even just be on text. Just type to us and then our leaders will read it out. If there's a group of, you know, four people and the person's a bit uncomfortable being or can't for whatever reason can't be on the microphone, then they can, yeah, either use text or just use voice if they want to do that.

38:03 Peter

Are you familiar with much of the adaptive technology that's around for people blind, low vision? I'm thinking of, you know, things like VoiceOver or Jaws or NVDA. Can that play a role in this as well?

38:14 Elphie

Mm, certainly could. I'm not, only foundationally aware of a lot of those... tools, but yeah, we do work with a number of different... accessibility tools for participants. Obviously, there's a very wide range of what is possible across all, all of those... disabilities. So, yeah, we end up just working with... you know, as much as possible. So with... the participants that we come across. But... yeah, we're very much about providing them a bespoke service that, you know, if they have specific needs, then that's exactly what we're here to do. 

We're... here to welcome them into a group where, you know, other groups might be harder for them to connect in with that group, or maybe not even be able to make it into the group, whereas this is specifically aimed at those with disabilities. So yeah, everyone, all the participants there are... have some form of disability.

38:56 Peter

Fantastic. What about in terms of... if I want to get set up or if someone I know wants to get set up, someone listening wants to get set up, do I need a lot of money? Is it an expensive thing to go and get into?

39:06 Elphie

It's relatively well priced, I would say... is the best way to put it. But, you know, if the participant happens to be... you know, funded through either NDIS or other funding sources, then it can be covered completely. So for example, with NDIS, it's covered completely by NDIS. Yeah.

39:22 Peter

Fantastic. And I'm just guessing that... you know, if you have kind of a hit, if I can put it that way, it'd be a real buzz, wouldn't it?

39:31 Elphie

Absolutely. Like like we... everything that people make with us... is their IP to keep. Of course, that we will not, of course, but we make sure that it is theirs to keep. Right. Unlike other places might might try and hang on to the IP if they make a hit or whatever. We want our participants to be successful as possible. If they wanted to partner with us to publish a game and it starts to to do well and they wanted to do that, then we can definitely help them do that and provide extra support on on that end as well. If they wanted to work together and still, you know... they would still be getting the lion's share of whatever the, whatever they produced for sure.

40:02 Peter

So you take people through at their own pace, if I can put it that way. Like...

40:07 Elphie

Absolutely. So yeah, we have we have a number of different programs, but the ones that I'm talking about today are completely at the participant's pace. We also have like certificate twos and certificate threes. If people want to get, you know, qualified or like registered, qualified, but being able to do it at their pace and being able to use tools like AI that, you know, the... a lot of... these, you know, more formal qualifications that we even deliver, we can't teach the same stuff that we teach or show them the same stuff that we show them in our other programs that are self-paced because they're not allowed to use AI, you know, for sometimes for good reason. 

But... for whatever reason, you know, a lot of these... different, you know, qualifications haven't got the... very latest stuff built into them, whereas we're going to give them the absolute latest technology. You know, things changed from two weeks ago to today, right? So they've already I spent a good example. I... and I haven't coded since I was in high school. So over 20 years... I haven't coded, so I wouldn't know wouldn't know what I was looking at when it came to code, really. And I didn't edit edit any code, but I built a whole game that I used to play in high school in half a day on a weekend. And that was because I spent most of the time fixing up the problems. Right? 

Whereas now, even two weeks later, there's now these things in place that we're putting in place for our our participants so that it even goes back and forth and fixes all the problems for you without having to interact with it.

41:25 Peter

That's extraordinary. If people want to find out more, where would you point us to?

41:29 Elphie

Yeah. Cool. So the first thing I'd say is... the first place to go to is Social dot Lightmare, and that's spelled L I G H T M A R E. So like a nightmare, but with was Light - so social.nightmare.com.au - that's dot com dot A U on there and on the end. So that's the site that they can... basically check out more about the programs that we offer. And we are actually launching the... first five coding session, at the end of this month, on the 30th of this month. So the very last day of the month, we'll be having our first live coding session. We've got... and many participants already who are interested in being a part of that specifically. 

But yeah, obviously if someone is interested in coming along and checking out the program, then go to the website socials and just express their interest on that, and we can get them into a free session and they can see if they enjoy either Vibe Coding or just playing some games and making some friends along the way.

42:26 Peter

It'll be great to talk to you. Keep up the good work. I'm sure we'll speak again in the future.

42:30 Elphie

Sounds great. Thanks a lot, Peter.

42:31 Peter

That's Elphie Coyle there from Nightmare Studios - and we'll put that information up with our show notes. 

Let's catch up with our resident physiotherapist all the way from the Flipper Academy - just down the road, actually. Chelsea Marchetti. Chelsea, great to catch up again.

42:51 Chelsea

Great to chat to you this month. How are you going?

42:54 Peter

Well, I'm going especially well. Chelsea, just before we talk about aerobic exercise and your holiday program coming up... rather interesting, last month you talked to us about weight bearing exercises. Of course, we've all caught up with the news regarding Suni and Butch, those two astronauts that were stuck in space for all that time and how that kind of impacted on their muscles, etc., being sort of in... that sort of environment for such a long time.

43:19 Chelsea

Yeah, absolutely... they weren't weight bearing very much in space because we know there's no gravity in space. So with that, they had... reduced bone density and then coming back, that would have made them significantly weaker and more fragile and brittle. So it really reinforces the importance of weight-bearing and the impacts of gravity on Earth and weight-bearing with that, that we were talking about last month, Peter. 

So just reinforcing that importance that even just, you know, standing up and bearing through your feet can be... just just as much as important as lifting a heavy weight, depending on where you are with your fitness... and your age and everything else going on, it can be really important for you to help prevent those other things happening, such as fragility, which could lead to... you know, broken bones with falls and things like that.

44:11 Peter

Yeah, I know they're only originally going to be up for eight days, and it turned out to be nearly ten months. But I guess, you know, the impact that might have sort of long term, I guess, you know, without being too callous about it, it's kind of a... good scientific exercise being... performed, you know, before our very eyes, even almost unintentionally.

44:27 Chelsea

Yeah, it definitely gives a really good practical... example to... the general public as to why we continue to have one about walking and standing and being up against gravity. So it was... I guess you're right, it wasn't very good that that did happen to them... but in the same way, it's a really good example of why it is so important. So it can really help reinforce those fundamentals to the general public.

44:52 Peter

I'm sure they've got good professional people to look after them, to make sure the recovery is full and swift. Now aerobic exercise, do you want to kind of... you know, define what that might be?

45:03 Chelsea

Yeah. So aerobic exercise is, I guess, what most people would casually call that Cardio. But, you know, cardio can be different, different forms. Really with aerobic exercise, we are sitting in an area where... we're taking in oxygen, and expanding it. So what I mean by that is, it's not, it's very different to something where we're trying to build... lactic acid, like a sprint. Aerobic exercise is more about being able to do something for a longer period of time and have that really even oxygen exchange. So examples of aerobic exercise would be going for a walk, going for a run, going for a bike ride, those sorts of things where we are constantly having to kind of exchange air at a consistent rate for the duration of our exercise.

45:53 Peter

So it's not just a matter of, as I say, like a quick sprint. This is sort of over, I guess minutes, obviously not hours depending on your fitness level, but sort of minutes rather than seconds.

46:03 Chelsea

Absolutely, absolutely. So if we actually delve a little bit into our energy systems, we have three. So one of them is kind of like our ten second energy system where we kind of use immediate, um, glycogen stores. And that's when we're doing like our 100 meter sprint and we're not really using a lot of oxygen with that. We're kind of just going, you know, straight gung ho building lactic acid, and kind of recovering really quickly. And then we kind of have a middle range, one where that's where you kind of look at like a 400 metre kind of run or something like that, where we are using a bit of oxygen, but it's not an even exchange. 

And then you've got your third one, which is your aerobic system. And that's when we have the premise being it's an even exchange. So that's where we're not kind of going full pelt. And the intensity is probably more like a 5,050% intensity, like in or even less like going for a walk and those sorts of things. So definitely across kind of your minutes, I would say like more than 2 to 3 minutes. We're looking at working in that aerobic energy system.

47:08 Peter

So in that spirit that you talked about, say for 100, 400m, it might take whatever, ten, twenty seconds, probably take me half an hour anyway. But that hundred metre sprint, if you're doing it right really quickly, you're not actually breathing much during that time. It's that kind of part of the discussion.

47:23 Chelsea

Yeah, you're kind of using a different energy system than your aerobic energy system... because you don't want to expend... too much energy because you're really kind of doing a high intensity effort, uh, whereas when you're doing like a... I guess  a 5K run or a ten minute run or a walk, you want to kind of keep your body having an even heart rate so it can keep going. So what you're breathing out is what you're breathing in. Okay. Whereas when you're doing like a really quick, um, run, that's not an even exchange of breathing. Because you need to kind of really use that intensity... at a high level. 

And, you know, when you think about it, we can't actually do that for longer than, you know, a minute anyway, or 30s - because our body just won't allow it because it can't actually do it. So that's why it kind of divides itself up into those three areas.

48:16 Peter

Gosh, it's been a remarkable year that the body, isn't it?

48:19 Chelsea

It really is.

48:20 Peter

Really.

48:21 Chelsea

Very clever.

48:22 Peter

Yeah. Well, we we don't even know what's happening in many respects, do we? So that's kind of even cooler. What's kind of some of the benefits of aerobic exercise, you know, to sort of... well, even if you're not running five Ks, but to kind of, you know, have... a ten minute walk or a 15 minute walk at a sort of nice, even pace.

48:40 Chelsea

Yeah. So there's so many benefits to just... general aerobic exercise such as walking. It's actually in our standard guidelines that we talked about, a few months ago, Peter... in Australian guidelines where we've got, you know, half an hour walk, or ten minute walk a day is really good for the body. So if we look at it from what we were talking about earlier with weight-bearing, it's really important for our bones and our muscles because we're weight bearing against gravity. You know, we're walking against gravity and we're using our muscles. 

Well, from a cardiovascular point of view, we're kind of working... our body in a good way, where we can pump the blood around really well. Open up our capillaries and allow oxygen in, and that's really good for our red blood cells. It helps them Reproduce, which can then help them nourish our cells around the rest of our body. So that's why, it's really preventative for a lot of our... chronic conditions. Because we're allowing our body to keep kind of giving itself the nutrients that it needs, exercising it, giving it some oxygen, which is really what we need to be able to allow our muscles and our body to work and repair itself really well. 

And then other things such as respiratory benefits, you know, we're increasing our lung capacity by doing aerobic exercise regularly, which is really important when we're unwell. If we have more lung capacity than we're able to, you know, take deeper breaths, which means we're able to kind of really get behind our mucus in our lungs when we're sick and cough it up really easily. So if you think about... yeah, so if you think about someone that, you know, really struggles with breathing... like a... ex-smoker or something, it's really hard for them to take really deep breaths. So when they get sick, all their mucus stays in their lungs, and it's really hard for them to cough it up and get rid of the infection. 

So that's often why they might stay sick for longer or in really severe cases, um, become hospitalised. So when we talk about regular exercise, that's kind of part of that as well, um, where we're trying to really training our lungs and our respiratory system to allow us to take deep breaths and do those things so that when we need it to kind of come in to get rid of infection, it's there, ready for us.

50:49 Peter

It's kind of the perfect definition of preventative medicine, isn't it?

50:52 Chelsea

Absolutely. It's really, really important. Cannot stress it enough.

50:56 Peter

And and again, I guess it depends on, you know, what your favourite activity is. But if you like it, then you're more likely to do it more. So if you prefer cycling to swimming or running to... I don't know, use the treadmill, then choose the the thing you're going to do most to get the most out of it.

51:12 Chelsea

Absolutely. And this is like the whole thing around it as well. Like you've got to do something that you enjoy doing because then it will become a habit for you and then you'll. It'll be weird if you don't do it. Which I think is the primary spot to be in. I think the issue that we have is if it becomes a chore and you're not enjoying it, that's when we find that people just don't want to do it because they don't like it. So finding something that you really... enjoy doing is, is a really good start. 

You know, people that have dogs really love to walk their dogs and kind of, you know, killing two birds with one stone. You're doing your walk. They're getting their walk and you're ticking that box for the day... like you said, other people like to run. Other people like to cycle. There, you know, you could even just... some of those gym classes that do like their aerobic... kind of exercises, even things like... you know, dance or those sorts of things where we like to kind of just... move to the beat of the music. That's your aerobic system working. So anything that you find enjoyable... would be really beneficial for you.

52:12 Peter

Terrific. Now, speak about beneficial at school holidays, so that probably means you're busier than ever.

52:17 Chelsea

Go. It's school holidays and we are bringing back our school holiday program in April again, because we had such a good outcome when we did it in January. Lots and lots of demand. So... we will be running our school holiday program next week on Wednesday afternoon, at the Ark at Campbelltown. We will also run it the following Thursday at the Ark as well. And then we're also running... a Wednesday morning school holiday program down at Blue Dolphin Swim Centre in Happy Valley. So we are trying to move our school holiday program to all parts of Adelaide, not just on the northeastern side of town. So if you were previously thinking, Oh, it's all a bit too far for me and you're living on that side of town, definitely... give us a call or send us an email if you're interested in enrolling your child.

53:09 Peter

It's a big growing area population-wise, so lots of people would be potentially in your catchment area.

53:15 Chelsea

Yeah. Well, we hope so. And... the swim centre there is really great. It's heated. They're giving us a really nice space to use for our program. So... yeah, we're really excited and happy that they've been able to give us that opportunity.

53:26 Peter

Important to say that it's heated because this warm weather won't last forever, I don't think.

53:31 Chelsea

No, it won't. And it has been a little bit cold this week. So yes, our heated pools are really important where we can get them. So we always try and latch on to those where we can.

53:41 Peter

How can we find you? How can we find out more?

53:43 Chelsea

So we can hop on our website, it's www.academy.com. You can email us at inquiries at academy.com.

53:54 Peter

Alright. And for new listeners, you are very much across all the details regarding NDIS programs as well, aren't you?

54:01 Chelsea

Absolutely. So our NDIS um covered programs because we're physiotherapy led... and our holiday program is a physiotherapy group program. So it is also covered under the NDIS plan if you have therapy budget that allows for that.

54:17 Peter

Happy to catch up next month. Chelsea.

54:19 Chelsea

Happy Easter Peter. See you next month. Thank you.

54:21 Peter

All right. And keep... a discipline about those Easter eggs. Okay.

54:25 Chelsea

All right, you too.

54:27 Peter

Okay? All right. No, no, I only give advice. I don't take it.

54:32 Chelsea

I'll be sure to keep myself under control.

54:35 Peter

Chelsea Marchetti there from the Flipper Academy. All those details up on our show notes. So, as always, if you can't access those, give us a call at the radio station, and we'll put you in touch with Chelsea. 

Well, you may have heard a little bit about Everything Disability. That's an organisation, not the topic. We're going to find even more out about it with... Pauline Luchetta. Pauline, lovely to talk to you. And thank you for your time.

55:01 Pauline

Thank you. Lovely to be here.

55:03 Peter

First, a bit about yourself and how you came to set up this fine organisation and with some really good objectives and aims.

55:12 Pauline

So Everything Disability started really probably about 15 years ago when I met my husband who had a daughter in a wheelchair. Well before NDIS was around, we then started a direct support business because we both enjoyed running businesses and didn't want to stay at home. Not that we don't love her to bits. So I had a background in business and I had a couple of businesses prior to that. So we started that. I then got crook again, and we sold that particular direct support business in 2022. And I had a plan management business as well running coinciding with that, because I do numbers for a living. 

And coming from a family that we all run businesses, it just seemed natural that, you know, that's what I do. Once we sold the big direct supports business, I actually being not exactly young anymore, I got a bit bored. So I knew a lot of people in the industry, and everyone kept saying to me, How do we find providers are to support our... person. And then a lot of providers will say, How do we find clients? So it became just natural for me being having a bit of the gift of the gab and the Italian and Irish immigrants who actually... just pretty much starting getting people together. So we started with network nights and then we've now advanced into expos. So it's pretty exciting to to see the results that we're getting and... how we can connect people.

56:39 Peter

A different version of Tinder.

56:41 Pauline

Yeah. On steroids.

56:44 Peter

And in all seriousness, you probably well, I'm sure you kind of saw there was a gap and something like this needed to be filled.

56:52 Pauline

Yeah. Look, there is and there's definitely the... big expos that they have in the capital cities around Australia... and a very good one in Melbourne. But as parents of a person with a disability and we live in regional area in Gippsland, we found that when we went to the Melbourne one, there was no providers that really serviced these areas, so everything disability is more about not providing them for the big areas but more as regional areas. So for Warragul, for Bairnsdale, for Pakenham, for Wonthaggi, for Albury-Wodonga, for Ballarat, for Bendigo, those sorts of areas that if you come to Melbourne for the exposure, you don't find providers in those areas. So it just made sense to me.

57:33 Peter

Fantastic. Well, certainly a number of Vision Australia Radio stations are based in the towns that you talked about. So, you know, those towns are quite large in terms of population. So there's a percentage of people with disabilities there, but there is a bit of a shortage as far as as service providers go.

57:49 Pauline

No, actually surprisingly there's not. When you say, Google an area... so we're going to Pakenham obviously in May - when you Google, NDIS providers in Pakenham, it's amazing how many come up and then you've got the ones that don't have any online presence at all. They don't have Facebook. They don't have webpages. But there are around doing things that are quite impressive and doing things sometimes a little bit differently than other traditional service providers. So even as we go to each individual area, I've been quite surprised at some of the businesses that I've never heard of before... that provides some really good services. 

I met one thing when we went down to have a look at the... a cultural centre down in Pakenham where this expo is going to be, and I met a bunch of people that were there having a coffee in the coffee shop from a service provider that I hadn't met before. And when we Googled, it didn't come up. So you just never know who is out there. And that's the point of having these expos.

58:50 Peter

One of the great things, obviously, about Expos is that you get a number of organisations all in the one spot, so you can kind of compare and contrast or, you know, pick up different bits of information and then kind of go home, digest it and make a decision.

59:02 Pauline

Yeah, absolutely. And it's and I think, Peter, you've hit the nail on the head. And it's not just getting direct supports for your person. It's about all the other... industries that are around that, you know, the ones that provide... assistive technology and the ones that that have pain management and the ones that are support coordinators and all the other areas that are around disabilities is is quite vast. It's quite surprising, you know, who's going to be there, even we've even got some people that do... house modifications... and ramps and all those other industries that you kind of forget about when you talk about disabilities.

59:41 Peter

And one thing is common that people who either have a disability themselves or are caring for someone with a disability or someone with a disability in their family, you know, time is of the essence. You can't haven't got time to kind of, you know, go from place to place or spend a lot of time on the internet trying to work out what's best. So to have these expos is a great way to have a one stop shop, in a sense.

1:00:04 Pauline

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's interesting you say that as well, because that's why we do it on a Friday and a Saturday, because we found for Peter and myself that we work on a, um, during the week, Monday to Friday. So Saturday was our day that we would go and, you know, be able to look at these places and most disability places were closed. So being able to run the Expos on a Friday and Saturday was a very big thing for me, so that those that work still have the opportunity to go.

1:00:34 Peter

What about in terms of finding, not so much finding people, but people's willingness to come along? I'm talking about the service providers in particular.

1:00:41 Pauline

Yeah, we've been inundated, which has been great. We've got a couple of spots left right now, but... once you get it out there and because we try and keep the costs to quite a minimum, we don't do big flash stands. We just provide some, you know, a table and a space for providers to be able to come. So we keep the costs down, and we try to put it across as many mediums as we can so that we can get members of the public there. So we're hoping to get... about 500 across the two days.

1:01:12 Peter

Okay.

1:01:12 Pauline

So that's quite huge. So that relies on the providers that are going to spread the word as well. And we're obviously, you know, sponsored beautifully by your station and by... we've got advertising across other stations and newspapers and, and social media. So we're trying to get the message out there that, you know, it's like you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. We've, we provide the space. There's another good movie, build it and they will come and we just people will support it. Then they can't sort of say, well, I didn't know about that later... if, you know, it's out on every medium.

1:01:50 Peter

And with, with everything like, you know, if I go along and I meet someone that I think can be helpful, I might tell my neighbour, neighbor, you know, tell someone across the road down the street, you know, someone at the pub type of thing. So, you know, it's that word of mouth that can kind of spread it even wider.

1:02:06 Pauline

Yeah. And it's... the cross-networking amongst providers is really good as well. The other expos that we've run, the feedback that we've got from the providers is, it's been great to meet the other providers and find out what they do. So if they have a person or if the providers have a person that they support, that they think they're not quite suitable for our business. But I know another one down the road that does this. Then they work with other providers as well. So on the Friday night or once the expo closes, we have a two hour network event as well for providers specifically, so they can sort of keep up to date with what's happening in their local area.

1:02:47 Peter

Fantastic. Yeah. Now your next one is coming up on May the 2nd and third in Pakenham.

1:02:52 Pauline

It is at the Continuum Cultural Centre, which I said we were down there this morning and it's such a beautiful space. They've got a great coffee shop there. We're going to have a quiet area for anyone who gets a little bit overwhelmed. And it's really accessible. Great parking, and beautiful outlooks. So we're, I think we're up to about 35 or 40 providers already. We've only we've got a couple of spots left. So if anyone's interested to get on board straight away. But... I think there'll be a good mix of providers there for anyone who wants to come. And entry is free and we have great door prizes.

1:03:28 Peter

Alright, I was gonna ask you about entry. I didn't think about door prizes, but... nothing like a bit of incentive to get people there, Pauline.

1:03:35 Pauline

Well, we don't ask for anyone's full name, email address, anything like that. We just ask for  your name, first names and a phone number, so there's no obligation. And we've got some great vouchers that we would like to give out to those that give us the feedback to how they found it. That's pretty simple. And... the more feedback we can get, the more that we're able to implement new and exciting things to our next expos.

1:03:59 Peter

Simple and effective. And in terms of the kind of client that you're welcoming or the service providers are welcoming across the board in terms of disability.

1:04:07 Pauline

Yeah, absolutely... there's anything from, you know, juniors right up to seniors, which is once you get to about 65.

1:04:17 Peter

Oh, turn it up, Pauline. That's too young.

1:04:23 Pauline

But it's it is covering... all aspects of disabilities and not just direct supports. There's everything else in between. And we're even working at the moment to see if we can get some equine therapy providers out in the grassed area.

1:04:37 Peter

Oh, fabulous.

1:04:38 Pauline

The, you know, with the live animals. So it's many and varied and... we just hope that people are out and about on Election Day, which they probably will be going.

1:04:48 Peter

Oh yeah. Of course. I hadn't thought of that.

1:04:49 Pauline

Yeah, yeah. Go get your democracy sausage at the school and come on by and pop in and say hello.

1:04:55 Peter

All right, so give us the dates again. And the venue.

1:04:58 Pauline

It's May 2nd and May 3rd. So Friday the second and Saturday the third. Election day it is from 9 to 4 on the Friday and nine till three on the Saturday. At the Cultural Centre in the main events room. So come on. It's free entry for anyone who wants to come, and you can come back both days if you want. If you don't get time to see everybody on the first day.

1:05:22 Peter

Terrific. Now, if people are listening in and think, Oh, I wouldn't mind turning up to show my wares, as it were. How can we get in touch with you or your organisation? It's a great name, by the way. Everything Disability. That kind of says it all, doesn't it?

1:05:35 Pauline 

It kind of does. And it shows the way across the board and have every provider covered. Yeah. Need any more info? You can have a look on our socials or email [?] Everything Disability.

1:05:48 Peter

Well, great to talk to you. I know people are hearing about you on the radio at the moment, so good to find out a little bit more. We wish you well. It sounds like a really worthwhile venture that you're undertaking and making a difference, which is fantastic. So well done and we wish you well with it.

1:06:03 Pauline

Thank you very much. It's been lovely to catch up. Thanks.

1:06:07 S2

Pauline Luchetta there, who is from Everything Disability. And you've got those details. And as always, if you've missed them, consult our show notes. If you can't get to that, give us a call here at the radio station. 1300 847 466.

1:06:26 S10

Come on in.

1:06:27 Resthaven promo

We open our doors to people we trust and care about. And for over 85 years, South Australians have been opening their doors to Resthaven. In turn, we've been opening doors to an easier, better life at home from personal care to help with the shopping and social outings, you'll welcome the care that Resthaven brings.

1:06:49 Peter

Time to hear from our wonderful friends at Resthaven. Celebrating their 90th year - and for the first time on the program, we're speaking to the Senior Operations Manager for Community Services, Sue Dahl. Sue, lovely to meet you and thank you for your time.

1:07:02 Sue

Thank you.

1:07:03 Peter

Now it's a very important time. On July 1st, we see a few changes taking place.

1:07:08 Sue

We do. It's it's one of the biggest changes we've had... in community... care, home care. So it's the launch of the Support at Home Program.

1:07:20 Peter

So what does this mean?

1:07:22 Sue

Well, it means lots of things. It's a big change for home care. So... we will go from... four levels of care - currently have, we have level 1 to 4 with one being, you know, low level care for clients at home and four being high level care. Well, under Support at Home there'll be eight levels of care. There has been in the past, we have charged clients... a care management fee and a program management fee under Support at Home. They will both be abolished. 

Care Management or Coordination as a lot of clients know it will be... prescriptive. So it will be a, you know, certain number of hours per week and it will be paid for on an hourly basis, not out of a fee. And our Program Management, which covers all the back of house things like rostering and some of the overheads and staff training, will be linked to the prices for services.

1:08:32 Peter

Now, obviously, we've heard about the four packages or the four types of packages. This moving to eight. Is that kind of a good thing or a bad thing? Is it going to make it more confusing for people? Is it a bit more streamlined? Can you kind of talk about that?

1:08:46 Sue

Well, we're not sure yet. We haven't had a lot of information from... the Department of Health, but it looks like level eight will be more care than a level four. And so I'm hoping that it means that clients will be able to stay home a lot longer and where they want to, until end of life. The government's also planning on putting some funding into... palliative care in the home because they've recognised that people would like to, you know, their wish is to die at home, not to die in a hospital. So they're putting some money into... palliative care for people as well. So we're hoping that it means that people can stay home a lot longer than they... are able to at the moment.

1:09:38 Peter

Sue, I know in recent times there was a Royal Commission into aged care - is this kind of some of the results of that?

1:09:45 Sue

Yes. This is the government's response to some of the outcomes of the Royal Commission. Not so sure they've hit all their marks, but but it's a wait and see after the 1st of July.

1:09:57 Peter

What about the fact that... 4th of July isn't that far away? So if I'm a client at the moment with Resthaven or with anyone else, need I need to do much about this, or how does that all kind of play out and, like, does everything sort of finished midnight, June 30th and start, you know, minute past midnight July 1st, or is it kind of bit of a phasing-in period?

1:10:19 Sue

Yeah, it'll be a bit of a phasing-in period. And for those clients who are already on a care package and were, if they were, um, approved for that care package before the 13th of September last year, then nothing much will change for them at all. They'll still have their services as they're having them now, and they won't be, as the government said, any worse off than they are now having home care for those clients. After the 13 who were approved after the 13th of September. 

There may be some, uh, fees to pay for their services, but the good news is that clinical services such as allied health and nursing will be free for all clients. Essential services such as personal care, meal preparation, things like that. There'll be a nominal fee for that, but there will be higher fees for things like gardening and domestic assistance.

1:11:23 Peter

Okay, so it's the old swings and roundabouts.

1:11:25 Sue

So it is. It is. I think they're looking at services that are traditionally aged care services and ensuring that they are, um, priced very fairly for all clients, but things like gardening and cleaning haven't been traditional aged care services, so they're going to come at a premium.

1:11:45 Peter

Okay, so is it almost a little bit more reflective of the NDIS or is that sort of totally, you know, no comparison there?

1:11:53 Sue

Well, no, we think it is based on the NDIS model... but I'm not sure we're going to know exactly how that's going to work for us until after the 1st of July. There's just too many unknowns at the moment. Yeah.

1:12:09 Peter

And of course, when changes like this take place, there's the old... unintended consequences that can come into play, isn't it?

1:12:15 Sue

That's exactly right. So one of the unintended consequences is that, previously, most providers charged about 15% of a client's total funding for the coordination or case management, as it's called. And under the support at home, the maximum, is 10%. So we're not sure what that's going to do for some of our clients. Some of our clients have lots of coordination and assistance to get things organised, such as medical appointments and other services. Some clients don't use very much coordination at all. So... it's a bit of a wait and see. We know that the 10% will go into a pool and we will be able to share that around, but I think you will see some restrictions on... the amount of coordination that some clients get.

1:13:06 Peter

What you're saying is, from West Haven's point of view, for example, if someone needs a lot of coordination, that 10% might not quite be enough. But if someone needs a little bit less, well, maybe you can kind of mix and match as far as the the costings go.

1:13:18 Sue

That's right. Yeah. It's because it's going to be a pool funding model. So we will be able to rob Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

1:13:26 Peter

So... what about kind of for your clients that obviously getting into too many specifics or breaching confidences. What's your kind of, you know, playbook at the moment, if you like? What are you doing with clients who... may be signed up after September 13th that you mentioned?

1:13:42 Sue

Yeah. So what we're doing is, we're going to get some information out to them about what it will mean for them. We know that we've had lots of inquiries from clients about who are quite worried about what this is for them and their services. The government has sent out some information, but as I said, even the government hasn't finished writing guidelines yet because they're not sure about a few things. So we're just trying to alleviate client worries by providing them with... as much information as we can, about what we do know.

1:14:18 Peter

I almost hesitate to ask this question, but of course, there's an election coming up. May the 3rd. We don't know what's going to happen after that in terms of who wins government or indeed who is in government. Would that play any role? Or is this kind of July 1st fixed and nothing's going to change that, do you think?

1:14:33 Sue

Well, we're not sure. We've heard rumors that maybe the Department of Health is thinking that they're not quite as organised as they'd like to be, and maybe it'll be delayed. The election certainly throws a bit of a spanner in the works, because, of course, while they're trying to implement this change, the government's in caretaker mode.

1:14:53 Peter

Yeah.

1:14:53 Sue

So, um, you know, it's... a bit of a difficult time at the moment for both, you know, clients of aged care and providers because we really don't have enough information to be... completing our plans for what's going to happen after the 1st of July.

1:15:11 Peter

So we're going around Australia on the Vision Australia radio network and the Reading Radio Network, so people can be listening or literally all over the world through the internet anyway. Resthaven are based in South Australia. These changes that you're talking about, these are national changes. Is that right?

1:15:25 Sue

They are national changes. So they're across every state and territory and affect all clients of aged care.

1:15:33 Peter

And for people who aren't in My Aged Care at the moment, the system of having to get into the system and My Aged Care, that won't change. That's still kind of that... portal, if you like. You have to go through that to kind of become part of the the whole kit and caboodle.

1:15:49 Sue

That's correct. So you're still through My Aged Care. There has been one change with... the assessment service, though, in that rather than being a number of... assessment services across each state, there is now one assessment service across each state, which the government is hoping will streamline assessments for people. But there are still, there's still a bit of a wait for some people. So my advice is, if you do think you're... coming up to when you might need aged care, it's it's better to get in earlier than wait until something happens when you need it. It's better to have that assessment ready and... you know, waiting to go.

1:16:30 Peter

It's a message that many of your colleagues have preached over the years - or not preached, but certainly put out there, which is obviously, you know, it makes sense. But, you know, if people like me, you kind of think, Oh, I'll get around to that or I don't need it now, so I'll do something else in the meantime.

1:16:46 Sue

Yeah. I don't suggest people wait. I suggest that people... are quite organised, when they get older and have sort of have their ducks in a row.

1:16:56 Peter

Yeah.

1:16:56 Sue

Get an assessment. Yeah.

1:16:59 Peter

So, I mean, I guess from today through, I sort of, Keep Calm and Carry On without being too... glib about it, that that's kind of the message. If people are going to be impacted, particularly if you're with Resthaven or indeed with any other organisation, you'd be in contact with your clients, and I'm assuming other organisations would be in contact with their clients to keep them abreast of what's going on.

1:17:21 Sue

Definitely. So I know that... particularly with Resthaven, we have a very large action plan that we are working through to get things ready for the 1st of July. I know that as are all other providers that we've had contact with, so we're all working very hard to ensure smooth transitions for all our clients. But it is a little bit of Stay Calm... carry on with business as usual, but plan for the future as well.

1:17:51 Peter

So I'll get you to give a contact number or give the Resthaven website as well in a second. But I know one thing without predicting the future, I reckon we'll be talking about this a few more times in the future as the months roll on.

1:18:04 Sue

Definitely. I think this is going to be a very hot topic, regardless of whether it goes ahead or not. It is coming... so yes, it's going to be the topic of aged care, I think.

1:18:16 Peter

I will, we'll try and keep our listeners as informed as we can be with people like you. How can we find out more? The Resthaven website. Resthaven dot ASN dot AU. Is there a phone number that people can call or...?

1:18:28 Sue

Oh, yeah, it's [08] 8373 9000. That's our head office. And you can ask to speak to anyone in the Community Services team.

1:18:37 Peter

Who would love to talk to you. I don't envy your job. I think you're going to have your... you know, be on your toes for the next little while, but you're just the person to do it, so thank you.

1:18:45 Sue

Well, it keeps me out of trouble. So if we're busy, I'm being a good girl.

1:18:50 Peter

Alright. If you're if you're getting into trouble, we'll know you're playing up and you're not doing your job. Yeah.

1:18:55 Sue

Alright.

1:18:56 Peter

Good to talk to you, Sue.

1:18:57 Sue

Thank you very much.

1:18:59 Peter

That's the thing - Sue Dahl there. The operations manager, the senior operations manager for Resthaven regarding community services. That's an important topic and we don't want to scare anyone - but there are those changes taking place there coming. So we'll keep you across the information as best we can. 

Well. Absolutely delighted to welcome to the program, Dr Ginni Mansberg. She's a GP and specialist in women's health and also has been voted the most trusted health professional. Doctor Ginni, if I may call you that. Thank you so much for your time.

1:19:35 Ginni

Thank you for having me.

1:19:36 Peter

That's quite a mouthful to have, isn't it? Much trusted.

1:19:39 Ginni

I know, I love that. How good.

1:19:42 Peter

And you've also studied journalism. So that's kind of both ends of the spectrum as far as trust goes, isn't it?

1:19:49 Ginni

I know, I know, it's I admit it very to very few people. So lucky you found out, Peter.

1:19:54 Peter

All right, well, we do our research here sometimes. Doctor, can you talk about a really important topic? Some research, particularly regarding women who have Caesarean sections and some of the issues that might arise.

1:20:07 Ginni

Yeah. So I it's interesting. There's 1 in 3 women end up having a Caesarean section, which I guess is it's probably not that surprising if you just sort of do spitball all of your friends and see who had a baby, in which way their numbers are going up, though. And while I think, you know, really in the vast majority of cases it will be fine. Like, there is not going to be any issue. Baby's going to be fine. Mum's going to be fine. It doesn't always go that well. 

And because we don't like talking about unpleasant things, we never talk about what could happen if a mum does go through a Caesarean - and so on that basis, I think if you don't know what to expect, you don't know how to avoid it. You don't know what to do if it happens. And I think just having chats like this are just really valuable, just to sort of go, Listen, I'm probably going to be fine... but just 1 or 2 things you need to be aware of.

1:20:59 Peter

I mean, without wanting to sort of shift blame or shift blame, who's kind of responsible for perhaps that message not getting out there?

1:21:07 Ginni

Yeah, it's actually a really good question. I think it's probably not all one thing. I think we all have an optimism bias. So as women probably don't want to know, we're very focused on the baby. We're very focused on bringing home a little one. And we don't really want to talk about what could go wrong. But at the same time... it's also, you know, the doctors and nurses probably should be doing that, but. And the midwives. But we're really busy. And so nobody ends up having the talk at all.

1:21:34 Peter

Okay. Interesting. So we've got an optimism bias - that's kind of interesting. Is that kind of... pardon the pun, but a gut feeling, or is that kind of evidence?

1:21:41 Ginni

Oh, no. No, that's really evidence-based. That's why women who are 45 and never had a baby think that they'll be able to just no problem, turn up at the IVF clinic and get pregnant. No worries. I mean, I think we always think that... things are going to be fantastic, which is great. And they may well be, but they're not always.

1:21:59 Peter

Well, you said that we don't, like, talk about uncomfortable things or not necessarily lovely things. So what what sort of things can go wrong?

1:22:06 Ginni

So the first thing I think you need to know is that you are going to bleed a little bit more, so you're going to lose a little bit more blood after a Caesarean. And that's like any surgery, right? You do. Blood loss is a thing, but you've just donated like two two thirds of your of your blood has sort of gone off to help baby make their own bloodstream and form their little body. And so you're already a lot of mums are already a bit depleted on iron, and it's just worth knowing you do lose more blood after a Caesarean than after a vaginal delivery. 

One of the things that can also happen is a wound infection. So whenever somebody makes an incision, particularly in an area that tends to be, you know, a little bit hot and maybe a bit sweaty under hot, clammy clothes, you can get an infection. And we know who tends to get it, like it is women with a high body mass index. Women who've had diabetes during their pregnancy. Women who've ever had a complication from a Caesarean before. Women who maybe have not had time to turn up to all their antenatal visits - and, like, no judgment. It's a busy time, right? 

But if you go home and you haven't even thought about it, then, number one, you can't do anything to prevent it. And number two, If it does happen, chances are you're not going to pick it up in the early stages where you just take a simple antibiotic and you can get complications from wound infections.

1:23:23 Peter

You've had some of the questions I was going to ask you, such as, what if... someone has had a Casarean before and also other... sort of pre-existing conditions, so they can obviously all play a role. So I guess the kind of radar should be up by all parties, as in the... medical profession and also the... you know, the family that are having the baby as well.

1:23:43 Ginni

100%, especially because there is a lot we can do to prevent, I mean, a wound infection specifically. We can do things to prevent it. So obviously like Duh, we're going to say don't smoke, which is, I think fairly obvious, but we're also going to say things like, you know, don't try not to put on too much weight, try to turn up to your antenatal visits. If you do end up with diabetes in pregnancy and it does happen, stick to the diabetic diet. You know, if you get put on insulin, take it. 

And there are some modern techniques that can be used during surgery, even to actually help prevent a wound infection. And that's just worth talking to your midwife about, particularly if you are someone who is in that high risk category. If you if you are carrying a few too many kilos, if you do have... a complication like diabetes, then it is worth talking to your midwife or your doctor to say, Hey, what are my options here?

1:24:31 Peter

I feel a bit uncomfortable asking you this, but can age be a factor if... yeah, you talked about... women of 45. Can that be a difference if... they might have had that at 25?

1:24:41 Ginni

Look, generally women who are older have a higher risk of definitely having high blood pressure and diabetes in pregnancy. So tangentially, it does also cause a bit of a risk as well.

1:24:53 Peter

Okay. What about as far as... where we live because you talked about... you know, hot and sweaty under clothes, people saying the northern states are more prone than, you know, people say in Tasmania.

1:25:04 Ginni

Oh, I love that question. I don't think that's actually ever been studied. I tell you what definitely does make a difference, though. So mums put themselves last. So when you bring home a new baby from hospital, you're going to be all about the toddler, all about the baby, all about the other kids at home, probably about your partner as well, especially if you have an extended family and there are some people who are relying on you. We know we want you to check your wound every single day so that if things are starting to go wrong, it's starting to get a bit itchy, a bit sore, a bit red, we want you to talk to a doctor or your midwife about it early rather than letting it, you know, get too far. 

But women are busy and they put themselves last. And even though you think you're just going to have a shower and do a quick check, have a look. How's it going? How's it... feeling? Is it oozing a lot? A lot of women are too busy to do that. And this is a time where you are the ringmaster of a pretty complicated circus. And the best thing that you can do for your baby right now is be healthy yourself. And for 40% of women who bounce into hospital again after being discharged after a Caesarean... it's because of an infection gone wrong in the wound. And we just want to say, Listen, that can be prevented. We can 100% prevent that. But it does require you to put yourself not at the bottom of the pile. Again.

1:26:22 Peter

It's a great point, isn't it? I guess it's kind of it's that easy to overlook because you kind of think, Well, I've got other priorities or I'll get around to that. I mean, I guess, you know, we do that with other things as well, but this is pretty important.

1:26:33 Ginni

Yeah, I agree, I think it is really, really important.

1:26:36 Peter

What about... because I know you're very much into preventative medicine, what about sort of after giving birth or after having the Casarean? Things that women can do. I'm thinking in terms of, you know, maybe supplements or things they can eat or perhaps avoid. You talked about smoking, of course.

1:26:51 Ginni

So look. The smoking is the obvious one. Eating decent food. You know, I know it's you're so busy, it's really easy to jump on the Uber Eats and grab a pizza because, you know, you're so busy and standing there and chopping up a salad is the last thing you want to do is ask for help. I mean, if this is the sort of, if you would help your sister or a girlfriend if she was going through this, then why don't you offer to ask for help? Say, Hey, I really need some help with shopping and cooking at this stage. 

Making sure that you get into a shower once a day. It sounds really crazy. Walk around. Exercise and movement is really important. It's going to help you with back pain. It's going to help you to breastfeed. It's going to help you to sleep better. When your baby sleeps. You've got to be grabbing every second you can. And making sure that you pay attention to your own mental health. Don't just brush things aside. It's a really overwhelming time. And make sure that you are checking in with yourself and with others in your life to make sure that you get the support that you need at the time that you need it most. Bringing your baby home is it's an intense experience - even if it is baby number 3 or 4.

1:27:56 Peter

Okay. And of course, you talked about, you know, maybe the lack of sleep or, you know, perhaps the diet isn't quite as good or indeed stress. I mean, they can all impact on our immune system, can't they?

1:28:05 Ginni

Absolutely. Oh my goodness. So so so much. The body mind spirit are so connected. And at the end of the day, if you are putting yourself last, you are not going to be eating well. You are not going to be exercising, you are not going to be putting your sleep first. You're going to be going. I could go and rest, but instead I'll do a load of laundry or I'll go play with the toddler because he really needs me to play with him right now. I get all of that and I want to validate. It's not easy to to carve out a bit of time for yourself, but just even 20 minutes here and there can make the biggest difference to you.

1:28:39 Peter

I know often on this program, Ginni, we talk to people about sort of older... Australians or older people and perhaps the fact that they've got a bit of a attitude of a stiff upper lip. I'll get by, you know, I don't need help. So you reckon that is even in the younger generation?

1:28:56 Ginni

I think so, I mean, I think they are better at... asking for help, and I think they're also better at pushing back when a doctor tells him something, or if they don't understand, they're not just going to be sitting there accepting breadcrumbs of information from a midwife or a doctor - and good on them. Like, actually, I don't think it's great that doctors and midwives are gatekeeping any information from younger people. I love that they're asking questions. It's their body. It's their baby. They absolutely should... and maybe we will see fewer infections as time goes on. 

But it's... while we've got this self-advocacy going on really well, we still have a tsunami of people not eating well, not moving enough, not exercising enough, not looking after themselves in terms of sleep and their mental health. So we've got these two things going on at the same time, and it's just worth remembering that as a whole person, you matter.

1:29:46 Peter

Ginni, what about women with disabilities that... have children that have Casareans - any sort of... information regarding their sort of, you know, right, of... infection or things going wrong?

1:29:58 Ginni

We don't... we do know that it's very much related to... just your general well-being. And we know that the health and well-being of people with many disabilities is poorer, and the access to good quality care is... lower. And so I think there are resources out there. It's just often hard to tap into them if you don't know what is out there and what's available. So if you're not sure, check in with your local pharmacist, check in with your local GP. Check in with your midwife to say, Are there any specific services that are available to me with my disability that I can tap into that can give me some help at this time? You're going to have to ask. Don't expect to have somebody tap you on the shoulder and go, Hey, guess what we can do for you! That's probably unlikely to happen.

1:30:40 Peter

That's a great point. And particularly access to information can be... a thing that can be a little bit harder for some people with disabilities to access. Ginni, I think you mentioned that 1 in 3... births are via Caesarean these days. Has that number changed much over the years?

1:30:55 Ginni

It has no, it has been going up. And partly it's because we have... an older and potentially less healthy cohort of women going through pregnancy and childbirth. So obviously having a large baby. And that is common with diabetes. It puts you at high risk for a normal vaginal delivery, and you're more likely to... need a Caesarean. And to a certain extent, it's patient preference as well, which is a bit of a shame. I don't know about you, Peter, whether you've got any kids, but for me, I think giving birth to my children was just, like, the most amazing experience I've ever had. I felt sorry when my my final child was born, and I knew I was never going to do it again. It's... a crazy... thing to say, but it is a wonderful experience to have a birth, and some women can't. 

But there are some women who choose not to have it, which is... interesting. And I guess a bit of a shame, but... I guess it is every woman's decision about the way she wants to go, and we've got to be supportive of that. We've just got to say that if that is the way you're going to go, let's have a talk about it.

1:32:04 Peter

I don't have any kids, but my Mum told me for years that that was the best day that ever happened to her, so I'd have to take her word for it, don't I?

1:32:11 Ginni

Oh, you absolutely do. And I'm sure it's very sad.

Peter

If people do want to find out more, what... can you point us in a direction? I guess you talked about your pharmacist, your GP, I guess establishing those good relationships from a, you know, early on in the... process, if you like, is probably a really good thing.

1:32:28 Ginni

100%. And for mums who are out there, your playgroups, your networks and your community are just so valuable just to network with each other. I can't tell you how many of my patients come in and go now, I've heard about this meningococcal vaccine from my from my mother's group. Or, you know, I've heard that I should be getting, you know, this RSV vaccine from my mother's group. It's really interesting that mother's groups are a really great source of information and support to women. Don't knock it, I love it.

1:32:58 Peter

Ginni, great to talk to you. Really appreciate that. We wish you well and to keep up the great work. And that's a very proud thing. You should be the most trusted health professional. I think you can you can dine out on that for a while.

1:33:08 Ginni

I reckon I can. Thank you. Peter. Thank you so much.

1:33:12 Peter

That's Dr Ginni Mansberg there. And great to catch up with Ginni, with a really important topic and spoke so eloquently and so well, so very powerfully as well. 

Club cool happening tomorrow at the club. 10:30 a.m. doors open. That's the Governor Hindmarsh Hotel and going through till about 2:30 3:00. Got live music, fine music, wonderful dancing, great food, tremendous company. So all in all, a wonderful day is just waiting for you to enjoy it. If you want to go along or if you want to find out more, give Andrew Kyprianou a call 0408 848 649. 0408 848 649. Club Cool tomorrow at the Gov. 

That's it for the program. If listening through 1197 AM in Adelaide, don't touch that dial. Coming up very soon, the very talented, the very wonderful Vicki Cousins with Australian Geographic - it's a program not to be missed. Pam Green, thanks so much for your help. Indefatigable as always. Sam, Richard, thanks so much for yours. Reminding you that Leisure Link is available on your favorite podcast platform. If you like the show, if you don't like the show, tell your friends. They'll love you for it, I promise. Be kind to yourselves. Be thoughtful and look out for others. All being well. Let's link back at the same time next week. On Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network, this is Leisure Link.